December 25, 2005
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Munich
I just got back from watching the movie “Munich.” The basic idea of the movie is a recounting of the story of how terrorist killed 11 people at the Olympics back in 1972. The movie is said to be based partially on actual events.
A certain liberty was taken to show retaliation for those killings by Israel. The idea of the movie is that assassins killed the terrorist that were involved in the Munich killings. The basic theme is that the violence continues to escalate as each side responds to the killing of the other side. The last scene of the movie is a conversation between the leader of the assassins and his contact. The leader of the assassins feels that they have caused the problem to grow instead of decrease.
The last scene in the movie is filmed with the World Trade Center as the backdrop. A reasonable person would wonder if the idea of the movie was that responding in the wrong way to terrorism, lead to the 9/11 event.
The question for me centers around two opposing views. I have several close friends who are pacifist. They believe that violence only increases with retaliation.
Should we respond to terrorist with pacifism or with a stick?
Comments (139)
no
kill the terrorists
with a pacifist stick
i dislike violence, i don’t like war.
does that answer your question?
<3
hey they bombed us…LETS BOMB SOME RANDOM THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES!
^ THAT is not the way to deal with terrorism
I don’t think violence is right, but something must be done.
BTW thank you, hope you had an AMAZINGLY fantastic Christmas.
stick, a big stick. I believe it was T. Roosevelt who said ‘speak softly and carry a big stick?’ I am one also who is not opposed to torturing the captured for information about the enemy. Toe nails grow back, human lives don’t.
i thik that the terrorists are doin this because we did sumthin to them. so ithink that we try and talk this out. and if that doesnt work then we kick some major ass.
http://www.xanga.com/groups/group.aspx?id=1994070
hi, my name is lyndzi. i would appreciate it if you would please join my blogring (above) Keeping the ‘Christ’ in Christmas. I made it because I’m tired of my athiest ‘friend’ who keeps openly insulting my faith.
I encourage ALL christians to join!!!
Thank you!
I am a strong advocate of Satyagraha. Violence always begets violence.
merry christmas
<3
I’m gonna go with a stick…fight fire with fire.
Eva
We can’t be violent just because they are. We can’t hold ourselves to their standards- we have our own set.
Murdering is wrong. But war, though it is violence, is not murder because our soldiers do not seek out the lives of individual terrorists to kill them. So, I think that murdering is wrong, but war cannot be avoided in some cases and so it must be used as a last resort.
both.
I think it depends. I think most of the time we should do our best to start without and then if there is more terrorism (like in Iraq, whether or not we send troops) we should use some violence.
A stick! As ol’ Theo would say… “carry a BIG stick!” And I agree with him (in this instance!).
A stick–the big kind.
WWJD? I’d like to check your answers to this post against your answers to the Jesus posts.
What’s wrong with both? Most “terrorists” are human beings with legitimate grievances which they feel powerless to address through peaceful means. If the Powers That Be were seriously interested in improving living conditions for most of the world’s people (which they’re not), they could eliminate the vast majority of the world’s “terrorists” without firing a shot.
WWJD? I’d like to check your answers to this post against your answers to the Jesus posts.
The answer to your question depends on what war you wish to win.
Politics or faith.
If politics, you do “what must be done.” You kill them so they don’t kill you.
If faith, then love your enemies. You show them the grace in spite of their attack. You continue until they stop or you no longer live to love them.
One is obiviously harder than the other, ask Jesus.
Respond by reviewing your strategy – stop angering them or inflaming issues. If you’re doing something wrong, correct that. If not, find a way to stop them, not through pacifism, but some sort of action, preferably not war.
eh who knows
War is the last resort, yet nothing has worked so far.
Merry Christmas! Be happy and joeyful!
The War on Terror is the most useless thing the “President” has ever done. You don’t fight, you use words to reason things out. That is what teachers teach our kindergarteners, no?
RYC: Well, isn’t everyone tired of seeing the “no baby” post? hah I had a great Christmas, hope you did too!
i do believe that in almost any situation, fighting anger with anger or violence with violence only reaps more of what you sow. but on the other hand, if we sit back and do nothing….do we risk something worse happening? its really a hard call. i would rather not respond with violence, but would terrorists listen to peace talks?
ryc: thank you. honestly, it just feels like a relief that someone actually read my post and validated my feelings. thank you thank you.
we should eat terrorist for breakfast. mmmm, bin laden o’s
peace max
Merry Christmas Dan.
Are you still in Texas?
God pretty much faced this issue thousands of years ago with a certain “terrorist” in heaven. He dealt with it with a bit of violence. The bible does say there was war in heaven. Then the terrorist was thrown out. Do we have another large island similar to Australia? God’s character didn’t allow Him to simply kill the bunch. He had to let it play out. I think Eccentrique has a good point. We can eliminate most by love and kindness.
Tim
Violence. War. No purpose is served except to set the stage for more violence and more war.
Meeting violence with violence is not the answer. Jesus didn’t think it was the answer, either.
Perhaps a stick, but I think sometimes more action is required on the peace front too.
Not that I agree with how the events of 9/11 have been handled, but I definitely don’t think pacifism is a good answer.
Think of a kid in school getting bullied. He will continue to get bullied until he stands up for himself.
That is just too hard for me, I go back and forth. I do want to see the movie though, you didn’t really say if you liked it. Someone on xanga was disapointed. I love speilburg, I only hated one of his movies, that weird robot boy, too strange for me. So what did you think of the movie for the entertaiment value?
“Meeting violence with violence is not the answer. Jesus didn’t think it was the answer, either.”
and look what happened to jesus, haha
peace max
an eye for an eye….
In response to wwjd: John 2:15
When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.
My answer: respond w/ a whip of cords!
Revelation 2:27
‘ He shall rule them with a rod of iron;They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ — as I also have received from My Father;
A rod of iron is a bit tougher then a stick, wouldn’t ya say?
Violence escelates when an opponent is not fully defeated.
In order to win, you must crush your enemy totally.
We should try to keep the peace. But by the time 9/11 came, I think it was too late.
RYC: You are a genius of unknown proportions. thank you so much! I think I will see it, I think I will like it too.
first. thanks for the comment. i hope so too.
second. i think there are times you should speak softly but carrying a big stick doesn’t hurt either. for instance, if we had backed down after the terrioriest attacked on 9/11 it would have told them we were afraid of them and the problem would have gotten worse, not better.
on the other hand in situations like bloodfueds, yes it does more harm then good.
In this day and age with what we know and our communication “skills” etc. There is really no reason why we should go to war over something that was a lie in the first place then fronted by the propaganda that if we do not invade another country that it will not stop. It’s ridiculous and ineffective.
As we can plainly all observe.
“Love is the only force capable of turning an enemy into a friend.” – MLK
Thats pretty much saying pacifism. Hate wont get us anywhere, if we bomb them back, theyll bomb us back, and the cycle will continue until half the world is in ruins.
But its such a dilemma. You cant really change peoples ideaologies that are so deep rooted like that, so were kinda stuck in a quandry, if thats the right word. That would be like me telling a Christian “let go of everything you believe in”
A stick with a rusty nail stuck through the end.
ryc- actually I have an ancient version of Photoshop and just use different things- I studed graphic arts for a few years. I hate boring pictures and am always trying to tweak pictures with various effects plus it keeps them more interesting and a tad bit anonymous, less obvious. The cloud effect filter- that was the last one.
Hope you had a nice Christmas Dan!
I say stick method.
I think the best way is to first prevent another attack from happening and always being one step ahead of terrorists. This is the best stratedgy. Merry Christmas all again!
~Pesky
I know it’s incredibly cliche’ or whatever, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
I mean, it’s like being a parent, in a way, the United States being the “world leader” or whatever.
If your kid hits another kid, you don’t beat them, you tell them what they did was wrong and you discipline them. Try to teach them. If that doesn’t work? Lock them up. I think violence should always be a last resort. I think it shows weakness, that the only way you can respond is to retaliate. Let’s not sink to their leval. I know we’re not terrorists, and we don’t do some of the things they’ve done, but I think Bush’s idea was good. But his execution was lacking. I think, instead of violence, there should be a threat of violence. Let their imaginations work. I’m sure what they can think of is worse than what we can do.
um… with a big ol’ fat stick. just sitting idly by while a terrorist murders your fellow countrymen is just ridiculous!
both have consequences
thank you for the Christmas wish and I want to wish the same to you, Theologian!
violence=more violence..
A stick, and a BIG one. We’ve let SO many attacks go unpunished.
That’s what led up the attack on 9/11/01.
RYC: as a matter of fact- Jesus does subscribe to me.
((( GRANDMA HUGS )))
Lori
“Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
-West African proverb quoted by Theodore Roosevelt
An individual that speaks with wisdom and defends himself when attacked will be respected more than a one with a machine gun or one that hides in the corner.
A country could operate on a similar idea. What a country or any group of people could do is think like a sagacious individual: defend what one cares for, defend those that suffer without cause, help those in need.
“Cast light upon the darkened earth. Save those lost in despair.”
-Xhela, Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Long Lost Ocean
I tell ya what,,, War I would rather avoid it,,, but sometimes it’s what’s needed sadly,,, Merry Christmas ya’ll and remember,,, Jesus didn’t come in a big way,,, but he does make A HUGE Impact!!!!!!!
Romans tells us that its the governments job to “use the sword”. Pacifism is NEVER an option. While we just don’t start pushing buttons to launch the missiles, there are appropriate responses. For those of you who do not think “violence” is the answer, let me ask you this…Ever here of Nevell Chamberlain?
Hell if I know. Why can’t you write about things that, you know, don’t require so much thought, like the bioentanglement theory?
-Hil
Bear in mind it isn’t something we did to them. It’s the simple fact that we support the things they consider sin or wrong, much like we would attack or harass the things we deem wrong or “sinful”. We don’t conform to their religion so we are “infidels”, they don’t conform to our policies and procedure and so they are “terrorists.” We can point fingers all day.
Violence only begets violence???
“We make war so that we may live in peace.”
-Aristotle
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
(“If you want peace, prepare for war”)
-Flavius Vegetius Renatus
Did you know that ever single civilization on the planet was founded on violence. I gaurantee that just about everything you own was created out of war(or at least helped along). This computer that you are using to say that violence solves nothing and only causes more violence was created because of war. The earliest computers were used to calculate trjectories for artillery. The early math that was used in the olden days was advanced greatly because it was used to calculate trjectories for artillery. You could even say that war is a tool for nature. Population control. If not for war and other such things the earth would be ridiculously overpopulated. For those of you who believe in evolution, it could be said that war has helped to improve the human species. It weeds out the weak.
Just a comment: why do people quote famous people? Just because they say it doesn’t mean that it’s true. Sheesh, people, think for yourselves.
a bazooka!
breeds
always breeds
A stick. They are the hostile nation — take a look at their own government and social situation. They will continue and it will only escalate if we just roll over.
Thanks for the comment. It is very difficult. And I’m really worried about their kids.
But, as far as the question… bleh.. I don’t know..
neither.
Hate breeds hate
Violence breeds violence
And death only brings about more death
It’s as simple as that
tHE PERSON WITH THE STICK IS THE PERSON IN CONTROL. aT HOME WE TEACH THAT THIS IS WRONG AND BARBARIC FOR PARENTS FOR TEACHERS ETC. THEY PRAY IN CHURCH AND SAY LOVE THY NEIGHBOR.. THEN THEY PRAY FOR VICTORY IN WAR..
i WOULD SAY PACIFISM BUT WHAT WOULD BE OF OUR COUNTRY IF ALL EXERCISED PACIFISM AGAINST THOSE WHO ARENT HOLDERS OF CONTROL AND THAT’S ALL THEY WANT.
iF THE NATIVE AMERICANS HADN’T BEEN SO WELCOMING AND PACIFIST, WOULD WE BE HERE? pERHAPS IF THEIR STICKS WERE BIGGER THEY WOULD’VE USED THEM.
I really like your posts and how you make people think, you don’t give them an answer, even though you have your own thoughts and Ideas on the subjects…. Instead you let them come to the conclusion themselves, thats how it should be…
God bless,
- Kyle
ryc: my bad…I could have sworn that I did…Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas, Dan.
If Clinton would have done something about the terrorists when he was in office 9/11 probably would have never happened. Fight fire with fire…there are times when it’s necessary to go to war. If Hitler hadn’t been taken down, think what the world would be like today. Same goes for the terrorists. We didn’t check them when Clinton was in office and it got progressively worse. Who knows what would have happened if W hadn’t stepped up to the plate.
A stick.
I watched Munich on Friday.
Anyway, hard to say. How can we just sit there and do nothing? It’s not like we should do nothing and take the suffering when terrorists have a different sense of justice. They view killing civilians as Jihad, a good thing. On the other hand, Munich shows the point about the purpose of fighting and killing. Is it there one? They just keep getting replaced.
Pacifists can be pacifists because the police walk around with guns.
Do whatever we need to do until Jesus comes back.
The real word your looking for in your question is not “pacifism” but “victimhood”. Do you really mean to suggest that doing nothing is a viable option?
‘A stick’ you say …
Well, let’s hear what a President had to say about this: Speak softly and carry a big STICK.
Sounds pretty clear to me.
God bless,
Shohna
with regards to the olympics – look at what precipitated the murders – the ‘terrorists’ were palestinians who kidnapped the israeli athletes in retaliation for the israeli occupation of palestine.
i do not agree with the methods they used, and do not advocate violence towards people, but i think we can all understand the type of situation that breeds this type of response.
furthermore, i think that, under the circumstances, a lot of us would do the same thing. put in the shoes of a palestinian today, or a northern-irish kid, i can see myself turning to violent means to end the israeli or british occupation, respectively.
therefore, it would seem that we can stop (or at least decrease) terrorism by eliminating the grievances that cause it.
obviously, we can’t make everyone happy, but we can do a lot better than we are now.
a good start would be to stop funding the military and start funding social programs, here in north america and overseas.
{pax discordia}
We should respond to terrorism with understanding. If we can satisfactorily understand why people become terrorists then all responses, both forceful and diplomatic, can be used with wisdom. My fear is that Bush, and westerners in general, including myself, don’t really understand the mindset of terrorists and thus we act in innapropriate ways that make the situation worse. So my answer is both, but not blindly. ”Love your enemies.” has to be the most radical and the most difficult commandment of Jesus. All I can hope for is wisdom and understanding no matter what the response.
It depends… sometimes the situation or the terroists threaten our security and our country, and extreme actions have to be taken. The idea of no violence, no war, no hostility is a nice idea… I agree… but sometimes there is no other choice to take the appropiate measures for the security of our country.
But I don’t think Iraq was threatening the security of our country. They haven’t even proven they had actual nuclear weapons yet. Bush just used the 9/11 attacks as a justification to get into war with Iraq – that didn’t have to do with the 9/11 attacks – to get oil.
With pacifism.
From my dealings with extremely violent people, I know that they feed off of violence. Think of the terrorists as a raging fire. Now, we can throw sticks at them all we want, but that fire is just going to swallow them up and keep on coming stronger and faster. But if we douse that fire out with water (pacifism), well, we might stand a chance.
I’m not saying that we should just “sit back and take it”, only that fighting violence with violence will not solve anything at all. I think we should practice tolerance, compromise, and respect before engaging in all-out war.
pacifis. i learned from people around me, that it’s better to stop violence by not using violence. even when it comes to the deepest pressure points, you maybe can pull a few tricks but killing isn’t an option.
pacifis. i learned from people around me, that it’s better to stop violence by not using violence. even when it comes to the deepest pressure points, you maybe can pull a few tricks but killing isn’t an option.
I really want to see that movie! I’m usually very opinionated, as you know, but I can’t quite formulate an opinion right this second. Hmm…I think I’d have to hear arguments from both sides. Hopefully, I’ll never be in a position where I’m forced to opine on this….
Merry Christmas!!!
interesting comment about that last scene of the movie. and so it goes on and on…
Our unwillingness to bridge gaps with those who are different than us is our main problem. We have to take ourselves off of our pedistals and realize that there are 6 billion other people who share this planet but not our way of life. So much war could be avoided if we would only attempt to understand, contemplate, and reason with others. Instead of imposing our will upon them.
Fighting terror with more terror just doesn’t work.
Read a book.
You actually pose a great question, and I sure your answers will be divided with each party giving you several reasons why they believe their opinion to be the correct one, I dont think we can stand around and let terrorism prevail, we have to fight back. I have been wanting to see that movie, I see you give the basic ideas, but I am curious .. how did you like it?
Taking people out eye for and eye, makes more people blind and sightless. America has a rep, for being a bully, in any shape or form. I think america can stand it’s ground without even fighting just because it’s rep, but I dunno. Murdering is wrong to kill because others kill should never be justified.
Hmm what would Jesus do? I believe,no, I know Jesus wouldn’t retaliate like we did and kill so many(For killing is a sin &Jesus was and is perfect)Jesus would just pull something out the Bible that everyone had overlooked and state that in support of his decision( for everything He does is just)He is supremely infinite in Justice you know. I believe Jesus would give them a stern talking to and just turn His cheek however many times He is stricken. Merry Christmas!’>countpopulon<’
When the options are limited to open retaliation or total pacifism, the end product will inevitably be disaster. Pacifism works if you are in a state of peach, and if your neighbors are likewise. We are not, nor are our neighbors. However, we have many approaches we can take, and many strings that we can pull, to avoid incidents such as 9/11. To answer your question: yes, me must answer, but no, not necessarily with force.
ryc
but my drive has five gigs. I want to keep it.
RYC: It’s nice to know my humor is appreciated by y’all
I saw that film too. Oh, maybe now I see Spielberg’s motivation for it. I didn’t get to much from the movie. Like in the movie, when violence begets violence – when will it end. We need to make amends or try to work on peace. Total pacifism is not realistic but I don’t think war helps either.
i believe they taught us in grade school that violence is never the answer. ao i’m going with that.
neither pacifism nor the stick. first things first, discussion and fortification, public relations. over-reacting makes things worse. a proportional response, low key would be best, i would think, but then again, and this is a problem for me, i’m not a combat expert or a foreign relations expert, but then you wonder, who really is? is the president either of those? ever? i suppose he always has access to experts…
“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.”-that really old Ghandi movie
I think pacifism is a no no. War? that’s questionable? Do you know what Islamic Fundamentalism is about? They hate everything that the West stand for. They fight so they won’t succumb to our beliefs and culture. In America, we teach tolerance, I’m sure it’s quite the opposite for Fundamentalism. Think Hitler. I don’t think pacifism or sometimes anything less than violence will work. If we die, we aren’t going to ”heap burning coals” on our enemies because that is exactly their goal, to get rid of us. Sometimes (keep in mind not all the time), the only right thing to do is to fight for the right thing.
I doubt they are willing to compromise. To compromise will probably mean giving up their religion to them.
But I do like how Eccentrique put it, even though it’s exactly the opposite.
A comment was made above which said, “WWJD?” I look in the book of Revelation and see the Lion of the tribe of Judah and He is Jesus. He comes to destroy the enemies of God with the breath of His mouth. God is a God of love and justice. Many people just want the baby Jesus at Christmas. But, He is also the God of the old testament and will come a second time to rule and reign.
Becker
I’m not a pacifist. I couldn’t have been in the military if I were. Although I was never involved in combat, I did see the consequences of the Bosnian civil war of the 1990s. There comes a point when the terrorist, leadership, government, etc. which is killing others will not listen to diplomacy and must be dealt with through way of violence.
Not using force may also allow for the escalation of violence (e.g. the Bosnian conflict prior to NATO intervention) while using force may also do the same (e.g. the NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 to force the withdraw of Yugoslav military units from Kosovo resulted in increased massacres of Kosovar Albanians by Serbian forces during the opening days of the campaign).
The goal of terrorism is to incite terror by any means, which may include killing others. The goal of the US government is not in line with this. It has a duty to protect its citizens from harm. The US must use force against terrorists if they are not open to diplomatic resolution and still intent on engaging in activities that will bring harm to citizens and property. This may lead to the deaths of innocent civilians caught up in the violence (e.g. Iraqi civilians killed in US bombings). Violence begets violence but if the original instigator is not open to another means other than violence, there may be no choice but to resort to violence to ensure the safety of US citizens and property.
I would like to see diplomatic measures used first but if they fail, the bottom line is the safety of US civilians - from the point-of-view of the US government.
i saw that with you… yeah. we should respond with BIGBOOMFIRE! jk
i think that you can’t respond to terrorism with terrorism. because it gives them a reason to hate us. but i don’t think that a planned public assault is altogether wrong. if we can deter terroists from attacking us here, then let’s do what it takes. remember 9/11? it’s ridiculous to think that pacifism is the cure for terrorism. it just makes us easier targets. but treat them better than they treat us. love them despit their flaws and faults. but we also need to defend ourselves the best that we can. we have the same right as they do to life. too bad some people are too close minded and crazy to get that. i mean i am willing to die for my beliefs, but killing myself for them isn’t the proper way to represnt those beliefs. it is better to live holding yourself to the highest standard possible… Christ.
sorry about the huge comment. i’ve just been thinking about his since we saw it earlier.
A balanced combination of both.
We, the world, are way beyond what we should have done. We just have to deal with what we have done. Face it, Bush was caught with a stick in his hands and his pants down.
Just because they come over here and start violence does not give us the right to go over there and escalate the violence. We should handle it on our own turf.
responding with war and torture just proves to them that we are the kind of people they think we are—we are no better, no more democratic—we are doing exactly the same thing they are. It is not our job to attempt to democratize the world
i think you must have a big stick…and know how and be willing to use it…but it depends on the offender as to how, when and if you need to use it…that is where the problem lies…
Folks, there is no valid justification for terrorism. None. Ever. It should be opposed and thwarted by any and all means, both those that are necessary and those hat are effective. Killing terrorists may not always be necessary, but it is always effective — at least with respect to the dead terrorist.
I think you take a pacificst role while negotiating, but make every effort to bring those to justice that you can convict and take the necessary measures to protect your country such as tighter security, tighter control of immigration, and more intellegence gathering. I think that a violent response to terror does not serve to repair the problem though.
I admit that whenever I see acts of terrorism, I want to hit back. But that is not in keeping with the teachings of Christ. It is my old nature coming through that says we can ‘teach them a lesson’ if we hit them hard enough.
I have lately come to believe that violence seldom if ever solves a problem. I have lived most of my life under the opposite belief.
I don’t know if a strict path of pacificism would benefit us or not, but I am pretty sure that retalliation will only lead to escalation. If I asked what Jesus would do, I think most of us would agree that bombing the daylights out of some country or another would not be His chosen path.
L,r
RYC:
(Merry Christmas)
I hope your Christmas was a wonderful one, Dan.
L,r
What we need is warfare to solve this problem. Words do not stop the type of men who would strap a bomb on their back and blow up a group of small children without batting an eye.
We need direct force in order to prevent further terrorist attacks, war is an ugly thing, but it’s the only solution that we have.
I think of this quote when I read your post.
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance being free unless made so and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)
I would say non-violent is the way to go, however if nonviolence, then a nonviolent solution must be reached with the terrorist. The acts cannot go unresponded. Vengence should never be our motivation that is the Lord’s.
I, too, am a pacifist.
There should be balance and very clearly applied…
I, too, am a pacifist.
i say you be like a beast if they leave you alone you leave them alone. if they make a move to harm you you strike tham down so hard they will never be able tp do such a thing ever again.
i dunno. a stick i guess.
If you decide to retaliate with a stick….
AT LEAST RETAILATE AGAINST THE RIGHT COUNTRY!
Like saudi arabia! How many Saudis were on the planes? 15 of 19. How many Iraqis? None. And still we go to Iraq.
Then again, one of the Saudi royal princes has his own nickname at the white house. oy.
<3Kate
Hope you had a great holiday Dan.
hey thanks for the comment lol
living where i live….
9/11
changed me
and now i think we need to be agressive
and get on with it
very out of character for me…
like i said…
everything changed
stick
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Definitely with that stick. The lives of people, terrorists who have no concern for the worth of human life or dignity do not merit consideration. Violence begets violence but inaction encourages disrespect.
Well, we have tried the pacifism, and it doesnt work. The stick, in my opinion, although worse now, will make it better in the long run
Responding to them in violence is not going to solve anything. It will only create more hatred.
Erika
stick-and be firm with it
Pacifism didn’t work. Duh! Remember the first World Trade Center bombing? We did squat about it! I will not list all the terrorists attacks which have taken place before and after 1993 (the year of the first World Trade Center bombing). Suffice it to say, the USA doing NOTHING and that did not work did it? It took 3,000 lives, four crashed airliners, and two tall buildings totally destroyed to ashes and an attack on the Pentagon all in ONE DAY to finally get our attention for a while. Now look at the media and a whole lot of Americans………wimping out again, no backbone, no courage, no guts to get the job done. No loyalty to a president who is trying his best to keep us safe. That is gratitude for you.
Terrorists were attacking us before 9/11. We ignored them, or lobbed a missile over and destroyed an aspirin factory and killed a janitor. Wow! If we just try to ignore them, they think we are cowards and keep attacking us. That is the way they think people. Wake up!
Pacifist are morally confused and sometimes just plain IDIOTS. Of course they mean well. SO WHAT!
We should not respond with a stick but with a baseball bat.
Nsynctrick up there in an earlier response makes the same morally confused error pacifist make: It’s all about poverty …that’s BS! Furthermore why is it our responsibility to improve the living conditions of the rest of the world? If this is correct and noble then can someone please improve my living conditions? Oh wait a second that’s my responsiblity and I’ve never expected instantaneous results for my hard work. Let’s ‘take of those at home before we rescue the world’ is what I always hear from these self-righteous Leftist (not Liberals ..there are no liberals except true classical liberals, which are, in this epoch, ‘conservatives’.).
Here’s the deal….
You grab a terrorist, smacking around, get the handcuffs and arrest him…
Put him/her into a secluded prison with no way to communicate with the outside world without affecting his rights…
Then… in a few days he’s in a court and later put him into a lethal injection…
That’s the way it should go…
First of all please define terrorism, or terrorist. I think Americans use the term too liberally. Once you think you have identified exactly what terrorism/a terrorist is, how do you spot one? It is easy to say “let’s fight terrorism with a stick,” but how exactly do you fight an idea? This is a hard question to answer, but I think the first place to start would be with the president not ignoring clear intelligence stating the intended. Then I have to question whether or not it was right for our CIA to: 1. Fly a group of Middle Easterners, particularly from Afghanistan, into our country 2. Train Bin Laden’s men with the best intelligence we have 3. Fund Bin Laden and the people of Afghanistan to fight the Soviets for us toward the end of the cold war 4. Fund and publish the textbooks–still used as elementary curriculum in Afghanistan–that describe how to go about blowing up the “enemy,” who exactly to blow up, as well as giving perverted Islamic justification 5. Allow a man to become president, even with close familial ties to the Bin Laden family. (These things are de-classified by the CIA). Bush knew the attacks were going to happen, he was simply waiting until they did. Think about it….If an attack happens he now has what he needs to sway the American public into going to war. We are not going to catch Bin Laden any time soon, and for intentional reasons. As long as Bin Laden is still out there Bush can run to “9/11, Bin Laden, Terrorism” anytime his ratings get low, or to justify a longer occupation of Iraq. I am going to lean toward a much more pacifist position and suggest that we take care of domestic issues before trying to resolve conflict elsewhere. Rather than foresaking relations with foreign nations and upsetting a larger community, thus stirring up more “terrorism,” we should deal domestically with the terror that strikes our own country, in our country. The people that strike our country live in, train, and are educated in our country. Perhaps if we could deal with these domestic problems by supplying the appropriate programs with our war money we could: make a larger group of people happy, keep unsettled people from errupting with more violence, and protect our own citizens from the problems we face here in America. It is our own “beat ‘em with a stick” complex that is going to harm us in the long run. World terrorism has more than tripled since our invasion of Iraq and is still growing.
I am Palestinian, so I am very closely “tangled’ with the dispute between the Middle East and the US & Co. I feel pacifism is the best but seldom used approach in a dispute such as this one.
i think speak softly with a big stick. lightly press it on them, and if they refuse the cooperate, kick their asses.
wilma
randumz
We should speak softly and carry a big stick. Right now we’re not doing so well on the speaking softly bit…
wow now this is such a problamtic issue. I once came upon some silly icon that read “fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity” ( mind you, that’s a direct quote), I read that and realised how much truth it held though ironic. Another question that should be asked is ‘when will it ever end?’
To me…pacifism is a Utopian concept….where logic, reason, and regard for rational thought co-incide with a kindler, gentler, thinking and feeling being…….unfortunately….it seems the way of the world warrants a big stick to ensure a place exists to employ that concept or any other of choice. Carry a stick….but use it wisely…and who knows….maybe there will actually come a day…when the only stick needed will be for firewood.
Those who are against violence and make Jesus references are slightly confused. Historically, God has called His people to fight in many battles in the Old Testament. Freedom is not free. Not only is war necessary, it is God-inspired. WWJD? He’d tell us to obey God. Make the connection.
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We will speak softly and carry large, heavy sticks.