December 30, 2005
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Race Part 3
A friend of mine was in the military. We were stationed at the same base together. We would often times drive home for the weekends because we lived near the same place. One day we were talking and he said he had been pulled over by police three times in his life where he was also frisked. He felt it was because he was black. I told him I was never frisked by a police officer before. He was raised in Chicago. He was pretty clean cut and stayed out of trouble. He told me that most of his friends had been frisked too.
I noticed after 9/11, there was talk that we should focus attention on special people groups. I can just imagine if I worked in airport security during that time that I would be tempted to watch some people more carefully than others.
Is it appropriate for law enforcement personnel to watch certain people groups more carefully when performing their duties?
Comments (111)
first
i was frisked twice at the airport earlier this month… twice!
second
only if they are doing something suspicious…and re: first…i promised myself if i ever was first again…i would do that! no more swimming upstream for me…
WTF
Top Three =)
A suspicious person is a suspicious person. It doesn’t matter what color they are or what race.
If the statistics show certain trends, then yes.
holy crap 9th? I’m getting up there!
Never been frisked, but I wouldn’t mind if it was some hot policeman.
no, because there has been no proof that certain groups are more susceptible to crime. Sure international terrorism is a huge threat, but that doens’t mean that domestic terrorism will not occur. For example, the Oklahoma city bombing was done by an American citizen who was white. Targeting specific groups just allows a racial backlash to occur in society. So eventually, some races will become elitist towards others groups. I think that type of racism led to Germans hating “undesirables.” although it may be human nature to want to suspect some more than others, that just shows a fear of the unknown rather than a fear of the race, which is an entirely different topic in itself.
great xanga. i read it alot. : )
yes I think it’s appropriate as long as that’s not the ONLY thing they are looking for.
dang i hate it but is there anyway around it
yes–as soon as you dont do it and somethig goes wrong joe public says “Dang–how hard is it to spot a bad guy”–its a no win situation–but if you took notes in last nights meeting–you would know we are not supposed to talk like this–lol
I don’t think so. Any race can commit any crime. It wouldn’t be fair, for example, to just watch arabic people for terrorist things, as there are white/black/asian, etc that do the same.
Yep….I think that’s what their job is suppose to be!! Watch whom ever they consider to be a threat.
It makes sense to some degree–i.e. at an airport, you don’t want to waste time watching 90-year old women who are in all liklihood are not going to hijack the plane. But it’s just silly to ignore crazy-looking young white men who appear disgruntled in order to watch someone who looks to be of middle-eastern descent and is probably a professional of some sort who has lived in this country his entire life.
I think it depends on the stats for the area.
well, unfortunately yes. It’s not fair, but law enforcement have to go on what they know of criminals and if most criminals have a certain characteristic then it makes sense to keep an eye on people with that characteristic. I think the way to get rid of this problem is if eventually all the races were economically equal, because the reason why people of certain minority races are criminals more often than others is because they are in poverty more often that others. Poverty is the lurking variable.
I hate it when police officers do racial profiling. I have been followed by police officers of certain neighbor (East Grand Rapids) because of my race. When I drive down that neighborhood the only vehicles I see pull over are the ones driven by male black or Hispanic drivers. Lots of BS if you ask me.
I feel uncomfortable around middle eastern men that i dont know.
its wrong, i know.
I think it’s appropriate. But if you can watch one race or group of people more carefully, why not just watch everyone more carefully?
I think if you are watching for one particular type of crime, and it is normally perpetrated by a certain group, then it’s fair game (such as terrorism). I don’t think that it’s right to harrass people because of it, however. Either you have reasons to suspect someone, or you don’t. As for the blacks getting frisked, that’s just racism.
I’ve been frisked a couple of times. as for the question…it is no more appropriate for the cops of America than it was for the Cops of the Axis side of World War II
Moo
No.
I don’t know but I think it would’ve been ignorant not to if i were told to do this minutes or even hours after something like 9/11 happened. It was “a certain group” of people that was angry at us and wanted us dead at that time.
But here is a funny story. When i was much younger eons ago, we were told to do the same thing as employees to a supermarket i lived in connecticut then, being thorough like i am i was checking out the groceries for this white old man and when the cart was empty except for an open newspaper page i reached over to get it and the elderly man moved the cart away from me, i was puzzled and looking straight in his eye I asked him for it when he gave it to me there was a package of shrimp under it when i asked him if he wanted that he said no and handed it to me.
ever since then whenever i get followed in a store because i may be dressed like i have no money i always remember this story and laugh
well its only natural. but that doesnt mean its right.
no. i say we should continue frisking little old grandmas and 5 year old johnny at the airports because we want to be PC and that’s so much more important than using common sense. =)
Law enforcement, FBI included are watchful of everyone, everyone in their book is a suspect…
Oh the moral of the story….while we are watching certain people, the real killers, thieves are getting away! : )
I think they treat everyone the same, as a suspect.
after a certian traumatic event yes but if nothing is happening no.
if by people groups you mean like gangs and businessmen and hookers and such, then yes, it is… but there are asian gangs, and black businessmen, and various races in each “people group”…
the law claims to be blind to race, and God created them all, so there should be no social distinction between any…
our ideals of equality say “no” but history teaches us that compromising ideals for the sake of national security was seen as justified. the reason security does this is b/c its easier than suspecting everyone or being accused of laziness when something bad does happen. the people who hijacked the planes in 9/11 weren’t all out stereotypical w/ turbans and robes. they wore regular western clothing 2 blend in. and b/c using religion 2 determine who boards a plane and who doesnt is grossly unconstitutional, the post-9/11 security no choice but 2 suspect a certain group of people by appearances alone. the unofficialness of such method made it legal, tho visible.
it’s human nature 2 want 2 simplify things, even when that simplification is offensive b/c it’s more comforting than uncertainty. i’m from DC and go 2 school in NY. these days, u can’t even go 2 a public library or cathedral w/out stepping into metal detector. i’ve been frisked a few times (never wear a metal belt buckle) but i don’t mind b/c it’s 4 safety’s sake.
no bc they’ll be focusing so much on that one group that another person in another group could totally slip by…everyone should be treated fairly and not on their ethnicity
RYC:aw that was so sweet! that just made my day that i made your highlight of the week! lol you should do a post like on fridays or saturdays about everyone’s highlight of the week…kinda makes everyone reflect back on their week without them even realizing it! is that deception? lol have a great weekend and be safe!
Rachel
sometimes it can be
no, but it does happen. i don’t believe in checking out people because of their race, but i do think that frisking grandmas or toddlers is ridiculous.
no, but it does happen. i don’t believe in checking out people because of their race, but i do think that frisking grandmas or toddlers is ridiculous.
Yes indeed.
They shouldnt do that.
I have a question for you that I would like to know the general concensus of a large number of people on, and I was wondering if you could ask it for me since you have such large readership and my readership is so small.
I was watching the television show Grounded for Life on ABC Family a couple of weeks ago. The episode that was on dealt with the grandfather dealing with the death of his wife by bringing his son and his family food that his wife had prepared and frozen when she was still alive.
This made me think about what would happen if a member of my family suddenly died, and what I would do with the food they prepared. Sure, personal belongings are easier to decide what you would do with, but food seemed much more difficult to me. Honestly I wouldn’t know what to do with the food. If I ate it, it would first off bring back many saddening memories and I would feel guilty for eating my last memories of them. It would also seem wasteful to just let the food sit and rot in the refrigerator or freezer. I also would be hard pressed to throw it away knowing that I was throwing away some of the last things that my love one made. I honestly don’t know what I would do with the food. I had never thought of this before and was wondering what other people thought about this subject.
What would you do (or have you done) with food food that a deceased love one made while still alive?
What does race have to do with this?
No I don’t think so. I think you need to be careful of everyone no one certain race or group.
Amanda
Mixed feelings on this…I plead the fifth!
ryc: I TOTALLY agree w/ you!
Just goind by statistics, yes. And I got a feeling I’m going to get a lot of guff about this, but it is a fact that if you are black (or actually of non-caucasian decent) you have a higher chance of going to jail or breaking the law.
Hypothetical scenario: These people from the contry of Ram-Bam have been targeting and blowing up airports. They are easily distinguishable from other people by a large orange hat that they all wear. If you worked in airport security and saw a large orange hat, what would you do? Turn the other way saying, “Ah, I can’t be racist and watch them”. NO! You’re going to keep an eye on them or report them!
Now I’m not racist at all, (I hate all people equally), but statistics are what would save lives, NOT being nice.
Yes.
This reminds me of a party I went to a couple weeks ago. 5 guys and 2 girls went. All 5 guys got frisked, neither of the 2 girls did. is it fair? No. Does it make sense? Yes. Guys are more likely to bring whatever it was they were looking for into a party (drugs, alcohol, weapons)
Happy New Year Dan!!!
Happy New Year Everyone!!!
I was out once with a former boyfriend…a white guy and his buddy…another white guy. We were acting stupid…some song was one and we were jumping around to it in the car, throwing our limbs out the sun roof and the windows. Well, we got pulled over right away…by a black cop…who the minute he saw me with those two white guys lost his freakin’ mind. He asked my boyfriend if I was his girl, to which he answered affirmative, it went all down hill from there. He ran all three DUI test on him until he finally failed on. Another cop pulled up, another black guy, he wasn’t an asshole like the other one, but he knew what was going on. The next day, after I got bail money for him, I went to the jail to pick him up. They had him shackled to the bench, where another black cop was watching him. I was talking to him through the window, asking him if he was ok. The cop saw, looked at him and was like that’s your girl, he answered yes, the cop then told him he needed to shut up and not speak anymore. When the cop came out, he gave me the dirtiest look, to which I walked right up to him and asked what his issue was. He tried to brush me off, but I insisted. I kind of went on a rant asking him if he was pissed off because I wasn’t fucking him or was he pissed off because I wasn’t fucking him but a white boy instead. He gave me some crap about talking that way to an office, to which I told him he didn’t scare me my father was the freakin’ Sheriff! That was enough to send him packing. But every black officer in there knew who I was there for and treated me like dirt. Talk about reverse racism!
I think in all cases we just have to be careful about our intentions and whether we’re suspicious of a certain person or of their race.
it’s a part of their job. and unless there’s another way, it’s the best way to perform the job regarding profiling. certain groups of people may fall under close scrutiny at times, but it must be dealt with for the benefit of the entire population.
yeah. ok. If I’m an airport security officer and I have limited resources, I’m going to narrow down the target audience, just like highway cops hang around places where you are more likely to speed. So if I have to focus on people more likely to be an international terrorist who should I look at? Statistically speaking, no 90 yr old women have hijacked an airplane. No 25 yr old black american man has ever tried to crash a plane into a building. Am I begging the question here? I get frisked, patted down, etc.. all the time. Do I like it? No. But, what choice do I have now? So, I do the next best thing. I get over it. I wear my rank, not my feelings, on my sleeve.
Happy New Year Dan! It’s been wonderful to “meet” you.. =D
well maybe if American security offercers were capable of telling the difference between an arab and an indian. They go harassing this poor guy from Sri Lanka just because he wears a turban. It’s embarassing. I think that if our government’s intellegence reveals that people from the middle east are our biggest threat, those people should be watched. But by no means should they be harassed. It’s a sad fact, but there are just enough idiots out there who’ve created the stereo type to ruin it for hard working, respectable, arabs, blacks, mexicans, or anyone else who is discriminated against because of their color. Even middle class white republicans. Yeah, a lot of them are self righteous, hypocritical bastards with a narrow world view, but there are a lot who aren’t. I hate the whole thing. I think it would be really cool if our perfected bodies were black or brown. Sorry to ramble. I have a lot of thoughts on this issue.
^the comment was in answer to your question only.
uh, i mean my comment. heh.
uh, i mean my comment. heh.
Unfortunatly yes. Statistics show that certain groups are simply more prone to commit certain crimes. I’m not going ot debate the socio-economic nature of it, but I assure everybody I’m not an anything-ist. But fact remains, men commit 95% of crimes. Most violent crimes and others such as theft and car jacking are commited by poorer (hence black in many parts of the world) people. White men are more prone to commiting crimes such as fraud,pedophilia or even become serial killers. Obviously if you’re beating the streets it’s more intelligent to stop black people. Wheres if your investigating fraud it won’t help you to go ask questions in the hood. If a man is poisoned statistics show it is probably his wife.
All you have to do is look at the statistics to see that there is just cause for pointing out certain groups. But there would have to be hard statistical proof for me to do that.
Yes I do.
Sure. Why not? Is there any reason not to be caucious?
No……… And it’s not alright for a little kid to ask his mom why there’s a sound at the other side of the phone! People shouldn’t have there phones tapped or get monitored like mice in public areas, come on, it’s ridiculous.
no. when i tan i look arab or something and im not and they asked me are you conceling any weapons. and in perfect english i went “What the fuck is that supposed to mean? i am not fucking arab or indian or iraq, asshole! there is a big difference between biboty bippity and hola coma te llamas?” my dad was behind me and he bust out laughing, but seriously no. people shouldnt be focused on because of their race. as for your friend getting frisked all the time, that sucks because my friend Blaire is a black dude and he gets frisked all the time but that is because he flips out on the police. they pulled him over for going 3 mph over the speed limit. fat pigs…
Jeeves makes a great point. I saw some grandma and grandpa getting the total search at the airport last year. Ridiculous! There are only so many cops to go around and they have to focus on likely suspects.
Tim
racial profiling is wrong.
Appropriate in what sense? Ethically, ideologically? Maybe not. But when it comes right down to it, prejudice is a survival mechanism; you use all resources available to you to gain information about an individual, including physical appearance. Before our day and age, the population was nowhere near as mixed and co-existent as it is now, and looking at someone was much more likely to tell you where they were from, and thus their customs, mentality, etc. More importantly, it could tell you whether or not they were dangerous or friendly. In certain situations today, it still applies, though it is now more of an exception than the rule.
Bottom line: when lives are on the line, you take no chances, and you violate ethical and ideological standards if need be.
Happy New Year!
)
No. It’s racial bias and I don’t believe any one group of people to be any dangerous than another. It’s individuals that are dangerous. Not groups of races.
Well, I believe it was alright in the months following 9/11 to watch certain people groups more carefully, given the circumstances of course. But now? Why can’t everyone be more carefully watched? Watching does not = harassment. This should be about acting suspicious not looking Middle-Eastern.
NO!!
it’s not fair, but it’s what happens. but when they are looking for terrorists or something in this country, they’re aren’t going to look at the whites or asians, i guess. maybe it’s a good thing. but i think it’s more bad than it is good.
no
no
No, never.
All men were created equal. Therefore the law enforcement officers should watch everyone equally.
And you should never judge anyone from the outside, because it’s the inside that counts. Take me for example, I listen to metal music, love the color black, I like skulls, and I would rather die than live; people take one look at me and say that I’m gothic, but really I am a Christian.
You should not judge anyone by their appearance.
- Nicholas
hey
Egh… That’s tough. But, I will say no, it’s not appropriate.
But is it slightly justifiable? Sure…
But that doesn’t make it 100% right.
Also, I have never been stopped by police or frisked or anything.
hey, I’m a white female….I constantly get pulled over for not doing anything except drive a sports car….that’s not fair!!
No.
Ok. Well. I have mixed feeling about this. As I’ve said before, my father is from the middle East. You should just see how many random checks he gets at airports. How many people followed us around malls in the months after 9/11. I hated it. It embarrassed me and I was hesitant to even attend some of the “Saudi parties” my family goes to.
But. But.
It is true that most of the threats are from middle easterners.
As much as I hate those “random” checks at the airports and the funny stares, I’d rather be safe then sorry.
-Hil
I don’t think that certain groups should be picked out to watch more closely. There is no proof that any group is more suceptible to crime than another. This is discrimination. Judi
i think it’s easy for people who aren’t the ones being watched to say yes it’s ok. It hurts when you know a policeman is looking at you and targeting just because of your skin color, something you can’t control.
Well… lets put it this way.
If a bear wanders into a camp, kills and then eats a kid, then wanders off, and the game warden finds proof that it was a brown bear that did it, would you waste your time with ALL bears? Or would you track down all brown bears in the area, looking for the one that did it?
I have been frisked and I was not happy about the fact.
In todays world, the way the times are now. There can be no less suspect a person. Certain groups, yes should be monitored more but not as an invation of their rights altogether. I’m scared of this era.
it depednds what groups they pay more attention to. they have to watch for the people that have a history of crimes, they shouldnt pay special attention to people based on the color of their skin, but law enforcement these days is starting to be prejudice against certain types of people
If you act suspicious prepare to be watched. That said, some people will use your race, color, or gender, as reason enough to consider you suspicious. Its tough. Not working in law enforcement or security, I’m not a good person to know exactly what to look for. But there is a logic I suppose. I know when its evening, and I am out on the bike trail along the creek here, any woman by herlsef tends to start watching me and keeping a safe distance, I can tell that when I get near they get afraid. Now I would be the last person to attack them on the trail. But because I am a man that they dont know, I am a suspicious person, only for being a man. Is that fair, or is she just being sensible, for women have been attacked on the trail before, so they should be gaurded to some degree.
no i dont think it is needed… i jus think we tend to because we need someone to blaim… and for ur question b4 on the who descriminated more blacks hispanics or asians… i dont think any of the three get it as bad as the mid. easterns… or at least not after 9/11…
Yes. I think a police officer needs to take into account everything he can. However, race alone is not enough. A white man driving a porsche in a “all black area” smells like drugs. A young teenager – black or white – driving a Jaguar is suspicous I do not think it is enough to pull any of them over, but it is enough to arrouse suspician and a police officer should be able to use his intuition.
As a side note, I think the US military is the most racial mix and equal organization in the world. All races mix as equals. While I was in I observed almost no racism.
It should not be.
No. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist, and he probably didn’t fit the profile of one, at least where his appearance was concerned.
OTOH, I think it’s silly to go overboard frisking little old ladies in airports, just to prove that security is even-handed.
You do ask the tough questions, don’t you? On one hand, if most crime is committed by green martians, you would think that it is smart of law enforcement to watch green martians. All I can say is that I wouldn’t want to be a green martian. Ideally law enforcement should not use racial profiling. Then again, it’s a much less than ideal world.
Yes. Every white affluent person of either race should be pulled over and frisked twice a day–until they know what it is like.
Then we will talk about this shit again.
Hey, Dan, why don’t you ask the question, “Would you rather be SAFE or FREE?”
I am really interested in the answer to that.
How many people are really okay with giving up their constitutionally guaranteed rights for “safety”? And just how many and which rights are they willing to sacrifice to be “safe”?
I’d ask on my xanga, but I don’t get the traffic you do.
It’s not appropriate, or right. They watch people from the Middle East now, but they’re not the only terrorists out there. And assuming a black person is going to commit a crime because of their skin color is the same as assuming a girl wearing a short skirt is asking to be raped.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, check the feet real carefully. If you don’t, someone will be screaming at you when the duck attacks you blindly. Either way you’re not going to make everyone happy, so it’s best to err on the side of caution.
I hate to take the non-politically correct route, but race IS a factor no matter how much we want to pretend it isn’t. I don’t consider myself racist, but ignoring the facts doesn’t make them any less true. For example, if we decided to do a purely random airport search in order to not offend anyone, then a middle eastern man could get through, and an elderly American woman would be searched. Who is the higher risk? Would that make sense? No. Is it 100% fair? No. Are ALL people of any certain race a risk? No. Just like if there is a serial killer, odds are it’s a white male. Should we ONLY focus on white males? No. Should we focus MORE on white males? Yes.
yes, but it should only be a reasonable alteration…
If the statistics show certain trends, then yes.
Posted 12/30/2005 at 1:28 PM by likewise_catharsis
what they ^ said.
no
yea
Yes. HUGS
I hate to take the non-politically correct route, but race IS a factor no matter how much we want to pretend it isn’t. I don’t consider myself racist, but ignoring the facts doesn’t make them any less true. For example, if we decided to do a purely random airport search in order to not offend anyone, then a middle eastern man could get through, and an elderly American woman would be searched. Who is the higher risk? Would that make sense? No. Is it 100% fair? No. Are ALL people of any certain race a risk? No. Just like if there is a serial killer, odds are it’s a white male. Should we ONLY focus on white males? No. Should we focus MORE on white males? Yes.
Posted 12/30/2005 at 5:51 PM by StephanieTexas
Hate to tell you this, stephanie–but according to the walks like a duck test, you ARE a racist.
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim” So yes. If you’re a law abiding Muslim you’ve got nothing to worry about so the inconvinience of being temporarily detained shouldn’t be too much to worry about considering you could have been on one of the 4 planes just like anybody else.
As bad as this sounds…Yes. I am not racist AT ALL…But…Ya’know?
yesss
In the 9/11 case, yes. Al Quaeda (sp) and the Taliban were responsible. They were primarily if not all arabs. You could be compromising the safety of others if you did not watch them a little bit closer. I’m not saying a full cavity search, just pay a little closer attention until things calm down.
Potentially saving lives greatly outweighs the risk of offending people.
If there is an area where a large percent of crimes are commited by a particular race, I would pay closer attention to that race. That’s not racism, or racial profiling. That’s just being aware of and adjusting your environment.
In a perfect world, no. In the one I live in to say no would be to ignore the reality of life. If in a certain area, people with orange hair and green skin statistically are more often involved in criminal activities than people with orange skin and green hair, then it would be stupidly inefficient to ignore that fact.
Having said that, attention should extend to watching only. Harassment by detainment and search without just cause should never be condoned.
Ah, for that perfect world.
L,r
hm. hard to say. I work in retail and when a lady comes in with a stroller I watch her more carefully then the women without the stroller, especially if she doesn’t have a child in it. Just because she is more likely to steal than someone without a stroller.
I can’t really compare this to the race situations you were talking about but it’s the best I can do. Personally I feel that any racism are unacceptable period.
no. not for race.
if it looks like someone’s in a fucking gang or carrying a weapon, go ahead.
but who gives a shit about their race?
it doesnt change the person.
I don’t think it’s appropriate. At the same time, I know the vast majority of people would do it.