January 8, 2006
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Discrimination and Homosexuality
Recently I posted about homosexuality and adoption. I want to talk about this on a more broad context than just adoption. I want to talk about what I think is the main difference between two opposing views.
On the one hand, you have people that believe that homosexuality is similar to the hardships that certain minorities faced in the past. They believe that minorities were mistreated and set back because of something silly like the color of their skin. In fact, it wasn’t too long back in American history that minorities were slaves. They were not allowed the same rights as other Americans enjoyed.
I have heard certain groups advocate that homosexuals are going through that same stage. They are fighting for civil rights. They are fighting for the right to be treated equally. These people tend to believe that a person was born homosexual and has no choice in the matter.
On the other hand, you have those that argue that homosexuality is an action. They believe that it is a behavior choice and therefore hold the person responsible for this choice. These individuals will typically believe that homosexuality is either immoral or at least something other than the best choice.
Is the current fight for equal rights of homosexuals similar to the fight for civil rights among minorities?
Comments (192)
1st
yes and no. i think that homesexuals shouldnt be discriminated against because of sexual preference but that it is a choice. your not born with it
not really
yes.
as for minorities blacks dont pick to be black and in the case of civil rights women didnt pick to be women but still its not fair that homos cant get equal treatment
I do believe most homosexuals are born that way, not all though. All I know is thses gay guys in florida tried to adopt aides babies that nobody wanted and couldn’t, that is messed up! Yes homosexuals should have the same rights as every American they are human beigns, I don’t care who they love, choice or not.
It is simmilar in the fact that severe injuctices are occuring and the government and society as a whole are letting them happen.
With out a doubt, yes.
It’s not even remotely close. I’ve heard from multiple homosexuals, a few that are friends of mine, and they have ALL told me it is a concious choice to be homosexual. It really is like they wake up one morning and say, “Hey! I like my sex better than the other sex!”.
Now I in no way support homosexuality, but it is their choice… Once the homosexuals are discriminated against because what they do it not the “norm”, the American way of life is in danger. What’s next? Mandatory Sunday worship because worshipping on Saturday or Tuesday is not “normal”?!
A little off topic, but I think you get what I mean.
Blacks were discriminated against because of something they couldn’t help (color). Homosexuals are discriminated against because of something they can change.
Since when is sexual orientation a civil right?
I’m gonna pass on answering this one :-X
The principle behind democracy is to allow people to live their lives as they want…within the limits of reasonable laws of course. If a person prefers one sex over another that’s his perogative and I have no business interfering with it. Even though I am a Christian and I find gays offense I still support equal rights for them. I used to live in a country were the Church and State were not truly seperate and from experience I strongly believe in a secular state. Once politics mixes with religion there is infinite room for abuse. Nothing is more dangerous than a man who believes he has divine backing.
It’s different from minorities.
The only immediate civil rights issue at hand (that I see anyway, feel free to correct me, or my definition of “civil rights”) is marriage. And in that case, its hard to argue they don’t have “equal rights” because if two straight people wanted to get married (for finanicial or whatever reasons), they couldn’t either.
And about discrimination: I believe it will pass eventually. Just look at the general media… we already have entertainment shows dedicated to gay people. Just as sitcoms featuring all black families started popping up thirty years ago. In 50 years, the homosexuals won’t be any more hated than the minorities.
I could go on a long tangent about my extended thoughts on homosexuality and the marriage issue, but it’d be extremely lengthy, so I’ll just leave it at that.
I think that it is. It does not matter if they choose to be gay or not. People should not be discriminated against.
Erika
i think it’s pretty similar to the persecution that minorities faced in the past.
someday people will look back and view homosexuality and racism as the same thing.
and besides, marriage is not about color, age, religion, or GENDER. it’s about LOVE.
No freakin way! Those who fought for civil rights were in most cases treated as sub-human, were victims of racially motivated hate crimes, were prevented from owning homes of their own in the neighborhoods of their choice, they weren’t even allowed to vote until 1870. All of this was put on them, not because of actions they CHOSE to take part in, but because of the way they were born, which is beautiful.
To compare these two groups of people, is a complete slap in the face of those who fought for their civil rights.
No. Aren’t minorities getting what they ask for?
Are gays? No. Why? Because of the God damned stupid ass mother fucking Christians that don’t want the sanctity of marriage ruined.
Fuck ‘em.
It is not a civil rights action. I’m amazed people like Ms. King (MLK widow) hasn’t said anything about how this is nothing like a race fighting to be freed from slavery and second-class subservience even past their emancipation. This is a group of people who are acting like spoiled rotten brats who want the attention of the world. They have all of the same basic rights everyone else does. They have their civil rights. A piece of paper doesn’t necessarily mean you’re married or whatever. It’s the couple that says that in the end.
Lost my train of thought, but I think you get the drift, it seems some of these other guys have the same idea.
Though, each persons are picked on.
Shit.
Yes, they are similar.
the fight for equal rights is definately like the fight for civil rights, and sooner or later people will start to realize that we don’t choose to be gay. who would choose to be gay? who would choose to be discriminated against, spit on, beat up, maybe even killed. why would somebody willingly do something that could cause those things?
It all depends on if you think homosexuality is something you choose to be or something you are born with. I don’t think it’s been scientifically determined how one becomes homosexual. I think there is a difference between other minorities and homosexuals, simply because of the way society views the issue.
Yes. We are repeating history.
No, Homosexuals can hide their sexuality (they have for yrs, some still do) , but you can’t hide your skin color.
Yes, it is similar.
Even if it is a choice, it doesn’t harm anyone else. What business of anyone’s is it who someone loves or who they’re attracted to? No one’s getting hurt, and no one can magically transfer their gayness to other people. Homosexuals have a right to be treated like anyone else, whether they were born as they are or whether it’s a choice.
I happen to think they were born that way.
If a homosexual were to go to a place where he/she felt they may be “discriminated” against, they wouldn’t have to say anything about their sexual preferance.
If I were to walk into a KKK meeting, I couldn’t hide my skin color.
well, the fight for minorities circled around basic human rights and to uphold a legitimate government. While, the end goal could be grouped as equality which does parallel to what homosexuals are striving for, it is not quite the same as the right to hold property or the right to vote.
I think a more important comparison to the civil rights movement is how we treat non-citizens in our nation. They contribute to society, pay taxes, etc. yet they get no political rights in return.
No. As others have said… minorities are descriminated against simply for how they look (which is lunacy)… not the same with gay people in general.
what civil rights do homosexuals NOT have?
Yes. The whole choosing the be homosexual thing is totally off. There’s a hormone in our body which makes us straight for gay. It’s more of your body’s choice to be gay or straight. It’s like saying it’s your choice that you like the colour green. It’s all based on chemicals in our brains. Plus, homosexuality has been around since the ancient Greeks, perhaps even earlier. The only reason that homosexuality got all taboo was during the victorian times. (I think) When people decided to be brainless androids and follow a handful of zelots. In addition you can not say that homosexuality is “un-natural”. It’s not. There are many sepcies of animals know to be gay. Penguins, mice and I think panda’s to name a few. It’s so pathetic, to see tons of people totally disregard science, just to say homosexuality is wrong.
no, because there are more groups who are more outspoken and progressive to help them fight for their rights. HOWEVER, the feelings of discrimmination toward homosexuals are the same as minorities. I’d like to think we’ve progressed from our past.
pretty close.
Yes, even if it is a “choice” (which I don’t believe at all), they are still human beings who deserve equal protection under the law. As for the marriage issue, as two consenting adults, they have the right to get married just like anyone else. I don’t see how the argument can be made that gay marriage is “destroying” the “sanctity” of the institution of marriage when 50% of marriages today end in divorce, and people who are known to be abusive or cheaters or whatever are allowed to get married.
very much so. african amerians used to be viewed different. homeosexuals are viewed different now. the whole political scene is just a repitition of history.
Yes.
Both groups strongly feel/felt mistreatment and, deserving or not, they were mistreated. Certain words target gays that are used in daily speech. For kids the thought of someone being gay or bisexual is crazy. A guy in one of my classes spoke up about his differing sexuality, and the other males backed away like he was a monster. One girl even made a face and shouted that was sick.
Homosexuality, in my opinion, is immoral. But what set’s it apart from the rest of the sins? I.E. Porn stars. What they do is to some immoral, but they don’t get mistreated. Not everyone has the same morals, and people need to be a little more accepting of differences. Especially when these differences don’t impact their own life in any way.
yes, but this mainly happens if you’re open about it in any case people just should not be discriminated against
The homosexual one is more vicious and cruel, the civil rights is more ignored.
Homosexuals have the same protection under the law as anyone else, they even marry inspite of the laws…
Why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to be something that is so hated and discriminated against?!? There are homosexuals who battle with their sexual orientation for their entire lives, never wanting to fully face it b/c of the prejudices they themselves hold. You can also talk bto gay people who say they knew on some level back in childhood that they were gay. I’m sorry, but there’s no way I can believe that homosexuality is a “choice.” I think those who believe this probably still view homosexuality as “evil” and refuse to believe that God would create people in this way intentionally.
I also fully believe that in 50 yrs we’ll look back and kick ourselves for how stupid we’re being in denying this part of society the rights they deserve. So, yes, I do think their current fight is like the civil rights battles of the past.
oh and to sillymonkey boy. YOU CAN’T CHANGE WHAT GENDER YOU LIKE. You can’t help to like a woman over a guy or vice versa. It’s like how you can’t help but not like certain things or how tall you are. It’s all based around hormonal balances in your brain. Just like if a girl has more estrogen, tradtionally she’s prettier compared to girl who has less estrogen. Reading over some of these comments makes me seriously doubt the overall intellgence of the human race. We should all de-volve back into a neaderthal. On a side note, Neaderthals actually are more intellgent than homo spaien sapien (that’s us). The only reason they died out was because homo sapien sapien had better vocal chords. We have a wider range.
I don’t believe they should be discriminated against, but I do think it is a choice . . .
I’m amazed at some of these responses.
If you were in a situation where you had to hide your heterosexuality to feel safe, wouldn’t you feel discrimination?!? Isn’t that exactly what we’re talking about? Why should they have to hide anything?
And I love when people try to make not being able to marry not a big deal. I know I would be pissed off if I were denied that “piece of paper” (let’s not forget all the rights that come along with it as far as when something happens to your spouse, etc). How many of you honestly wouldn’t mind if you could never be officially married?
A combination of the two; virtually any behavior is a combination of one’s inherent inclinations and one’s environment/upbringing (in psychology, the nature vs. nurture argument). Thus, it’s both a behavior and a state of being.
No.
Homosexuality damns your soul to Hell, and the other doesn’t.
Nicholas
Not to the same extent definitely… homosexuals have way more rights in this country than slaves/miniorities ever did. I’m sorry, but it’s just a fact. However…. I do think that homosexuals are treated very cruelly sometimes and that is so wrong, whether you believe it is a sin or not, they are people just like we are and while they may not be “born that way” people are born with tendencies….
I don’t think you can compare it to what black people used to have to go through though, just because their skin was different color. Homosexuality is a lifestyle… not a race. The two are totally different.
One thing I heard which made me smile was:
“If you’re black, at least you don’t have to tell your parents.”
Personally, I COULD be straight, yes, but it would be denying who I am. i could find a guy and settle down, but I wouldn’t be happy. Just as a Jewish person could just not practice their faith. They have found genes they believe to be responsible for homosexuality. They have also theorised that it’s in the best interests of this over-populated society to have homosexual people. I think that personally, love is love.
If you loved someone, would it matter to you if they were of a different faith, were disabled, of a different race or had a deformity? What shoudl it matter what they keep in their underwear? Love is love, and no one should be persecuted for who they love. After all, who can help who they love?
I think it is a fight for civil rights. Why should a homosexual couple not have the same rights as a hetrosexual couple? Judi
Although many minorities would like to say no, I personally think that it is very similar. Though, granted, ethnicity is not a choice and, according to many, sexual orientation is, but still. But in the simple fact that it’s a struggle, I see it as similar. But, there is no-large scale violence (high-powered hoses, police K-9s, lynchings, etc.) against homosexuals..
Responding to the ‘Hellfire and Brimstone’ comments, as an American comic said:
“The Pope says it’s ok to be Homosexual as long as you’re not a practicing homosexual. To which I replied;
That’s cool, ‘cuz I’ve got it DOWN.”
Yes. I can say that because I believe that one is born gay or straight. I didn’t sit down one day and decide that I was going to be attracted to men and not women! I just am the way I am. I figure it has to be the same way for gay people! If it is true that we are born with our sexual preference already decided, then how can we discriminate against those who are homosexual?!?
But, can homosexuals help it if they are attracted to their same sex?
* I fail to see how homosexuals do not share the same civil rights as the rest of us…they are free to vote, free to work etc. what rights do we have that they don’t? Rosie O’donnel married last year a long w/ many others, so where’s the civil rights injustice?
Ok – I should most likely read the previous responses before I comment….
In answer to some of the questions asked above: What rights do homosexuals not have? They do not have the legal right to marry their partner and all the legal rights that go along with marriage. They have the right to be in the military as long as they don’t disclose their sexual orientation, however heteros are free to announce theirs at any time.
Yes – it is unlike the fight that minorities have faced (continue to face) in that one cannot tell just looking at a person whether they are gay or not.
Fuck everybody on here who said you can choose to be gay, you’ll go to Hell, or anything else I’m too lazy to type that I hate.
No!!! Minorities don’t get to chose the color of their skin … blacks didn’t even count as a whole person … could not vote … use the same bathrooms … water fountains … it annoys me when they are compared to that. However I think they should not be treated with hatred.
I don’t know. We should treat ALL people with equal rights. Whether it is a choice or not doesn’t matter. If people think it is ok to discriminate them based on a choice – what about someone’s religion or weight. Those are choices (in some ways). People make lots of choices. Is that a reason to treat someone wrongly.
I don’t think it is.. I don’t think its fair to say that. Black people were SLAVES, they were treated like animals, and they were treated like they were less than whites. I don’t think that is happening to homosexuals. I think the homosexuals have it much better than some of America’s minorities do. And besides, being a homosexual is a choice, and your skin color or race is not a choice.
I don’t think you can really compare the two at all.
oh and to sillymonkey boy. YOU CAN’T CHANGE WHAT GENDER YOU LIKE. You can’t help to like a woman over a guy or vice versa. It’s like how you can’t help but not like certain things or how tall you are. It’s all based around hormonal balances in your brain. Just like if a girl has more estrogen, tradtionally she’s prettier compared to girl who has less estrogen. Reading over some of these comments makes me seriously doubt the overall intellgence of the human race. We should all de-volve back into a neaderthal. On a side note, Neaderthals actually are more intellgent than homo spaien sapien (that’s us). The only reason they died out was because homo sapien sapien had better vocal chords. We have a wider range.
Really? Both of my gay friends (they don’t know each other) said it was a concious choice to be gay. Literally they thought to themselves, (they were straight at one time), “Eh, maybe I’ll try guys instead of girls”. That lead to “Eh, I like guys better than girls”.
How can people choose to be gay?! If you can just answer me one simple question, I’ll let it drop. If gay people are born that way, how the hell are they supposed to pro-create to make more gay people?
yes
sillymonkeyboy: your last sentence makes no sense. it implies that if anatomy allowed homosexuals to precreate their children would be homosexual. by that note, straight people having children could only have straight kids. and since we obviously can see that logic is flawed, your logic is as well.
There is no difference amongst people–black people, Hispanic people, gay people, straight people, Muslims, Jews, Christians–it doesn’t MATTER what group(s) you belong to. The fact is, everyone deserves to be treated with respect and fairness. No MATTER WHAT.
You can believe homosexuals are immoral if you want to or that black people have the “mark of Cain” or whatever bullshit those Aryan nation assholes spout or that white people are all ignorant “rednecks” or whatever the current insulting word for white people is–but you DAMN WELL better not treat them badly in ANY WAY.
I see some of the illustrious Patriots and Xtians here refer to gay people as “rump rangers.” Isn’t that sweet? Such a good example for the young people. I wonder if, in the privacy of their own home they use terms like N****r and S***k and stuff like that?
Nothing like reducing people to the status of things, is there boys and girls?
Yes.
Nope.
Yes and No! Because the Civil Rights for Minorities was a worthy cause, Homosexuality isn’t! It is godly for you to fight for your rights as a minority, so no one will ever persecute you, but it is VERY ungodly for a Homosexual, I mean, I admire the fact that people of all kinds, including homosexuals, fight for themselves, but is it right? No.
~ XXtRaGiCkInGdOmXX
So YOU get to decide what’s godly and what isn’t? Lucky fucking you!
I think that it is based upon the same desires for acceptance.
So, yes.
Absolutely.
Somewhat. It’s true that they homosexuals can conceal their sexuality in a way that was impossible for the slaves to do with their skin color. However, it is my opinion that homosexuality is not a choice, and that concealing it would make them unhappy- just as it would make a straight man unhappy to conceal his desire for women.
The basic concept of the two arguments is the same- that everyone should be treated equally. In this sense, the current fight for civil rights is very similar.
But when comparing the treatment of the slaves to that of the current-day homosexual, the obvious springs to mind- that granting African Americans civil rights was much more important than giving homosexuals civil rights in that the slaves were, in some cases, fighting for their lives. The stakes are vastly different in the two cases.
There is no yes or no answer- they are similar and different in many different ways. In my opinion, however, they are more the former than the latter.
You know… I don’t really like the question. For the most part discrimination is frowned upon by the masses. I firmly believe that all people are created equal. I say we stop focusing on every silly difference between us as way to elevate a minority to priority status and go back to being the great melting pot.
Even though I believe your sexual preference is a choice – it is wrong to deny any person the right to be with the person of their choosing. This is an open society where homosexuality should be allowed without any constraints – in the same way that we are given the ability to choose our religion. It may morally offend some people, but so be it.
SILLYMONKEY BOY ARE YOU A RETARD. I said in a previous comment. Gay people are gay due to a hormonal balance. Just like how I like the colour green but my friend doesn’t. It’s a hormone that makes something appealing to you. If I follow your logic then my parents would have to like green for me to like green. And we all know that’s a load of bull.
Well this is a really hard issue constitonally homosesuality and minorities and having the equal rights to all people makes sence. And like the whole magical age of 18, is right and i agree with it but i could see cause i am smarter and wiser than the rest of my peers so i could see myself with that problem.
homosexuality is one my religion and myself are very much against. but there we go with the whole equal rights thing which in there opinion is alright. but our contry is based off that paper not God.
If they want America to prosper they’d make homosexuality illeagel. i guess this could be the end to america
:: moves to Ireland::
Sir i’d like to know your yahoo please
Erica
ANNA Lanche.
You are going to love this. Aryan was orginally a indoeuropean pastoralist group. Which means that they’re from the mediterrean. Aryans were NEVER, light skinned, blue eyed, blonde haired peoples. They had a skin colour simliar to people from Afaganistan. The only reason that Hitler used the word aryan was becasue in their language it ment “Royal” or something to that extent
no. they are not getting treated unfairly. and homosexuality is choice, not birth. If God wanted male male or female female couples, He would have given them compatable sex organs.
I think the whole topic of discussion is pathetic. Gay people are people too. Who does it hurt to allow them to have every right you have. nobody…
And oh, let’s protect the sanctity of marriage…. because marriage really works anyway…
No.
This is just stupid.
not similar. it is a choice, and if our country makes the right decisions god will bless us
i think all gay people,
emo people, bi people,
whatever.. i think all of
them should die. mmmmhm.
kthanks.
<33333333
i keep laughing. haHAha. it’s funny how the only comeback that page394 has is “i already said that it is a hormonal imbalance” ok, well i just said it isn’t. So there.
no cuz homosexuality is a choice you make in life. god states directly in the bible that it is a sin to have same sex marriages. so your not born a homosexual. you choose to be one.
yes it is. if you talk to homosexuals they will all be quick to say that homosexuality isn’t a “choice.” no one really can control who they are attracted to – they just are. all homosexuals are doing is attempting to be true to themselves. people think of it as a choice because it’s not something you can see – like gender or skin color. but it isn’t. it’s the way some people were born and they have the right to their pursuit of happiness, just like anybody else.
yes and no.
no, because homosexuality is a choice. there can be biological/genetic factors or traits even that contribute to this lifestyle, but it is ultimately still a choice. one of the things that separates us, as humans, from the rest of the animal kingdom is the ability to make choices about sex. we do not just have sex to reproduce young. we can also experience sex and our sexuality for pleasure. arousal is not a purely physical state. for an example consider a gynecologist who spends most of his day examining women, and is not once aroused, but when he gets home at night sees his lovely wife in a piece of sexy lingerie and immediately feels a strong sexual desire to her. what ignites our sexuality is by and large a cognizant decision and also is a very learned one. we all are victims, if you will, of our culture and environment, and what we personally define as sexually inticing or attractive is greatly influenced by the various messages we receive from the world around us. once again there is some good evidence to the fact of certain gene patterns being more likely to result in one being homosexual, but not everyone with those genotypes are practicing homosexuals. thus there has to be an element of choice involved. so given that that particular lifestyle is a choice, the discrimination is not the same.
yes, because discrimination is always wrong. we should love everyone and look past outward factors into the soul that God created and see people as He does. a beautifil child of His.
Black people didnt choose to be black, and theres nothing wrong with it in any case. Homosexuals did choose. I dont hate them like alot of people would asssume I do. I just think its wrong.
In a sense… but there is a much less radical and organized movement now-adays.
I believe in the coming years it will become more ‘vibrant’ like the civil rights movement of old, but what were seeing now is nothing compared to what happened in the 60s…
Sillymonkey boy, you are a dumb-ass retard. Alas, I will answer your question. (Differently from what the other guy said.) One day, a gay guy will be made fun of for his appeal to men. He will then say, “How do you know you don’t like guys if you’ve never tried it?” mThen, the dumb-ass who started said conversation will say, “Hmmm… Good Point.” They will then go experiment with males and become attracted to them. Not only that, but also what the other guy said. Apparently his answer isn’t enough so, I gave you a new one to work with. Although the other guys’ answer is right. But, so is mine. That’s how you choose to be gay.
Oh goodness…
all of you folks that proclaim homosexuality is a choice… it’s not.
I mean, of course you can deny all your sexual urges and marry a woman and have children and dislike your entire relationship.
Or one can come out of the closet… that doesn’t mean being gay is a choice.
I know people who are right wing anti-gay assholes… that just happen to be gay. They did not want to be gays, it’s just how they turned out…
so fuck you guys.
NO!!! Homosexual rights should be fought against; civil rights should be a valued goal (though not to the extreme to which it is taken in recent times).
No, people are irrefutably born with the genetic difference that causes them to appear, white, black, asian… Gay people get their genes from their strait parents, so it is not genetic, they choose to be gay. Gay people have the exact same rights as strait people. What defines a marriage? A man and a woman who are not closely related that love each other and enter into a lifeling relationship with each other. You need a definition for marriage. A gay man can marry a woman if he wants. We do not discriminate against gay people, they have the exact same rights. What about if people want to marry animals? They could “love” each other, have sex with each other, and spend the rest of their lives together, but that is not how God designed marriage to be. What about incestuous marriage? If they love each other, should we allow it? How about a fifty year old wanting to marry a 12 year old? If they are in love, should we allow that? You need an absolute example or definition for what is a marriage. God made women for men. Adam and Eve are the foundational example of marriage, a man and a woman, that is how things are meant to be. Let gay men marry women, they have the same rights as strait men.
I don’t think all gays were born that way, I think lately that becoming homosexual is a trend…but, I do believe there are those out there who couldn’t be any other way if they tried. Thinking of having sex with the opposite sex to them, gives them the same feeling in their stomach as a straight person thinking about sex with the same sex. They are just that way. I do think they should be treated equally, and I believe they are not in most cases. Momofjenmatt had a good point, a gay couple tries to adopt AIDS babies and can’t because they are gay…. that’s just messed up. I knew a gay couple who had been together for 15 years. They wore rings, they were together constantly, they were no different from my husband and I (except they both had penis’) but if one of them should have died, the other would have gotten NOTHING. If one had great health insurance at work, the other couldn’t be added… and I think that’s wrong.
I also don’t think that those in charge will ever admit that this is any way close to the civil rights of the African Americans.. because it isn’t about skin color. Nowadays everything has to be about that, right?
in a way, but there is nothing wrong with blacks, but i believe that homosexuality is wrong and should not be upholded.
sort of. Homosexuals are discriminated and looked down apon by government and church, just like time before the civil rights movement. People beat gays and lesbions up and sometimes even kill them just because of their sexuality. But also, homosexuals can hide their sexuality and the people discriminated during the civil rights movement can’t hide their skin color of race.
Well gay people were never slaves as far as I know but they are still fighting for equal civil rights, definitely. Brokeback Mountain is the latest proof of that.
And being homo/heterosexual is not a choice. True you can choose how to act anyway, but the choices are something like a) pretend and live a life of fakery that messes up all your relationships; b) be celibate for life or c) follow your true nature and then have judgemental people hate you for your “choice.” Homosexuality is not wrong, it is not a sin, (I hate that word ‘sin’) it’s just the way some people are.
I think you should try something like posting 25 entries in one day to see if you could annex Featured Content. It would give you great leverage with Xanga. Stock options, honorary corporate positions. Then you could proclaim yourself Emperor of Xanga and start thinking about the rest of the planet.
As for your entry today, I don’t think anybody should be discriminated against for something that is clearly a genetic trait. However, the most credible research out there pretty much points to homosexuality as a learned disorder. The APA’s removal of homosexuality from the list of psychological disorders was not the result of any research whatsoever. It was sheer political pressure. That’s far too totalitarian(big brother) to be at all credible. All research pointing to a genetic homosexuality has already been debunked. What troubles me is that the arguments for same sex-orientation could be used for having sex with anything. And besides, sexuality is a fundamental desire defined by anatomy. I, like every other human out there, was born with a desire to eat food, but I don’t like brussel sprouts. To state that I have a genetic predisposition against the flavor of brussel sprouts would be something I would have used at age ten to over-rule my mother’s stern demand that I eat the buggers because they were good for me.
There’s way too much manipulative pseudo-intellectual hype in the world, and too many people naive enough to believe it.
NO way! They are completely different
Melissa
You know what, this is getting stupid and redundant. Lets all just come to the conclusion that people don’t know how to leave each other the fuck alone and they always have to put something or someone up on a pedestal as a superior whatever. So people should shut the hell up and stop being immature babies.
nope it’s not b/c they choose to make this a way of life for them..to go against the morals our country were founded on…so therefore they have no constitutional right…totally different from skin color
There are waaay too many idiots posting here who don’t know shit.
The people saying it says in the bible that it is wrong for homosexuals to marry better be virgins–until they’re married then–or they don’t deserve any civil rights. And the males better not shave their beards then–because if they do, they are going agaist the bible–and THEY shouldn’t have civil rights. And every body better be beating their kids with a rod or bending over to let their parents beat them when they are disobedient–because THAT’s in the Bible. And females better not ever be cutting their hair and ALWAYS having it covered–because THAT’s in the Bible.
And if ANY of you arrogant pricks have had premarital or extramarital sex–you better go out and gather up a big pile of rocks so that the rest of us can throw them at you until you DIE, because THAT’s in the bible too. And in that case, you don’t NEED your civil rights, because you will be DEAD.
It always amuses me in a sort of sick and masochistic way that people are so eager to pick out the parts of the Bible that condemn the people they don’t like or approve of while cheeerfully ignoring the parts that apply to them.
If *I* was God, I’d be laughing my ass off at you. Good thing I’m not God.
I don’t think all homosexuals CHOOSE to have this lifestyle. Some do, yes. But what about the people who were born like that? It’s not their fault that they’re gay.
And you can’t live your life in denial. That wouldn’t be living at all.
Of coursee! To everyone who says homosexuals don’t have to go through the same stuff as blacks had or whatever: I present to you Matthew Shepard. He died because a group of straight men tied him up to a fence, naked, in the winter and he wasnt found until 10 hours later. And there are plenty of cases of homosexuals being attacked and assaulted just because they are gay.
And homosexuals want to get married to show love and commitment not just to get “one up on the straight folks” and the rights that come along with marriage are a BIG thing.
And I dont know if I was born this way ( i think environment can have something to do with homosexuality, not just genetics) but I dont think its a choice at all. Yes I can choose to deny my attraction to men and I can choose to have sex with women but that’s denying my true feelings, no matter if I have sex with women or not I will still be attracted to men.
And to those who think its a choice and hate homosexuals- I’ll turn myself straight when you turn yourself gay; until then just realize that who I love is NONE of your business
I do believe that homosexuallity is a choice and that being said, if it is true being gay is way different than skin color or nationality, however we must remember that this land has a constanly changing moral code, if you remember Congress once tried to make a amendment to ban interracial marriges which are looked on now as “normal” in 50 or 75 years gay rights may be the same
I agree that homosexuality cannot be compared with being Hindu or something, which means that the two situations aren’t the same thing.
Civil Rights – Are rights held by individuals and groups derived from the social contract - the common consent of society at large to the rules under which its members live. The term relates in particular to the ideas outlined by Rousseau in The Social Contract. Under this conception, civil rights derive from society rather than God or nature [see Human Rights, and Natural Rights] and can be changed. On the one hand this gives the state the power to deprive people of liberties they once had (e.g. the ability to drugs, or to drink alcohol), but also enables “progressive” political groups to argue for new “rights”, for instance the “right to vote” or the “right to healthcare”. Rights such as these cannot be derived from nature as they depend on particular (and not commonly achieved) degrees of social organization and wealth.”
source: http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/glossary.htm.
Civil rights*. The rights that go with citizenship, that one acquires simply by being a citizen. Not all of these are inalienable rights, however–see rights. For example, a citizen may lose the right to vote if convicted of certain crimes.
source: http://www.unmc.edu/ethics/words/html#c
Civil rights are the protections and privileges of personal liberty given to all citizens by law. Civil rights are distinguished from “human rights” or “natural rights“; civil rights are rights that persons do have, while natural or human rights are rights that many scholars think that people should have. For example, the philosopher John Locke (1632-1704) argued that the natural rights of life, liberty, and property should be converted into civil rights and protected by the state as an aspect of the social contract. Others have argued that people acquire rights as an inalienable gift from God or at a time of nature before governments were formed.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights
Not all minorities were slaves.
The fight is not similar and here is why. Two heterosexual people would experience the SAME difficulties in getting married as two homosexual people. A homosexual man CAN marry a homosexual woman. Who says that marriage DEMANDS sex between the partners?
The fights for civil rights were dealing with the denial of rights because of an unchangeable physical attribute (skin color, gender, physical characteristic). The issue for homosexuality is with getting acknowledged acceptance of a behavior.
Okay I have to bring this up. I think god, if there even is one, has better things than have gays to be condemed to hell. Furthermore, if everyone who did something immoral and didn’t repent or whatever you christians like to do, hell’d have to be pretty big. Since the world population is growing which means more people and more people means more “sinning”. Well with all that people no wonder hell’s so hot. All the radiating body heat. Besdies hell’d probably explode due to all that body heat and all that people/souls.
You know, I wanted to do a blog like this! I tried presenting a topic, then opening it for debate. That worked for a couple of weeks. Then somewhere along the line I started posting my opinions, then my blog devolved into just a typical blog about me… which is really nothing spectacular.
Congratulations on your discipline and success with this blog! It’s great!
I know plenty of declared homosexuals who later in life “discover” that they are really straight.
I do not agree that all are born gay/can’t change their sexual orientation, so I would say no.
Not really…according to the bible homosexuality is really just a sin, and since when do people get discriminated against for lets say umm…telling lies? Being black isnt a sin, being asian isnt a sin. If liars were fighting for civil rights well…then you see
being a lesbian, i believe that, since homosexuality is NOT a choice, homosexuals are indeed facing the same civil rights limitations as minorities both before us and beside us today.
I also agree with CoachDerelicte in saying that if women were meant to be paired with other women then then their body parts would be compatible…
I think that it is the same thing as the minorities. They, too, are fighting for their rights, in just the same manner as blacks were 50 years ago.
ciao,
~*~*Malorie~*~*
do any of you notice that God said, specifically, that homosexuality was an ABOMINATION?? now, in the past, God has never been known to force people to sin by making them born with a physical urge to sin. so it has to be a choice. i know some gay people who think they were born like that, but they weren’t since they were born. it’s usually something happens to them or their childhood was screwed up so they turn gay. but thats not an excuse. Homosexuality is mentioned many times in the Bible as a terrible act worthy of judgement and punishment. So, I don’t know exactly why it’s wrong, and I don’t have to. God said so. So NO, being gay has nothing to do with civil rights.
There are some serious freaks posting comments in here. There are also a lot of good arguments. But that weirdo with the bloody Christ or whatever thing and the demon name is freaking the hell out of me.
My answer still stands, it ain’t the same kind of fight.
Have we enslaved any gays?
No? I didn’t think so.
Do gays live as second-class citizens?
No? I didn’t think so.
Are they discriminated against?
Yes? Let me remind you, so are whites, blacks, yellows, reds, albinos, handicapped, fully-capable, fat, skinny, deformed, diseased, comatose, whatever.
None of us are safe from our fellow man’s insecurities and attacks. Everyone finds something wrong with somebody. we are a self-deprivating, self-mutilating species. Just combing through the comments here we can see the racism, the sexists, the perverts, the high-and-mighty, the jocks, the nerds, the tree-huggers, the activists, everybody.
We have no right to decide, as a “homo-” or a “heterosexual,” whether it is a choice or an ordained future for any other person. They might not even be able to discern that truth.
I would tell you pricks to shut up, but because no one has, will, or would listen, I won’t. I’m tired of yelling and screaming at the injustices and having no one to back me up. I only hope that someday, there might be enough people that see the light to make a difference in the world without being oversome by society. This obviously won’t be that day.
Thank you, TheTheologiansCafe, for allowing me to voice my opinion, as unheard as it will be.
I do not believe homosexual rights is the same situation as minority rights at all. First off, homosexuals, whether they even know it or not, choose to be gay. No one is born gay, homosexuality isn’t genetic, it’s a choice, even if that choice is subconscious.
Secondly, being gay is wrong, it is morally wrong and gets a person a one way ticket to Hell unless they admit that they are sinning and seek help on stopping their wrongdoing. And I’m not just talking about the act of gay sex, I mean the entire mindset, the lifestyle, is wrong.
Minority prejudice was based on absolutely nothing besides the fact that they were different. They weren’t doing anything wrong. In the case of gays, however, they are doing wrong. Blind prejudice is different than pointing out a moral fault, which is precisely the difference here.
-Jared
no
All I have to say is hate the sin not the person
okay I need to re-state my previous comment.
You know what, this is getting stupid and redundant. Lets all just come to the conclusion that people don’t know how to leave each other the fuck alone and they always have to put something or someone up on a pedestal as a superior whatever. So people should shut the hell up and stop being immature babies.
Seriously shut the hell up. That or gain some intellgence and propose a different arugement other than it’s wrong becasue of the fucking bible. Okay let the people with IQs higher than their age debate about this.
Yes it is. Just look back at all the struggles of the minority– federal laws were made to keep them down and groups were formed to counteract the minorities’ actions. But in the end, the minority eventually pulled through after much sacrifice and dedication and became somewhat “equal”.
I am one that believes that it is not chosen, but genetic. Do you remember when you first said “let’s be straight”? Why would you choose to be discriminated against? :/ My opinion anyways.
You’re obviously a smart one…can’t even get a point across without profanity…
In any case, despite what you might think is convenient, morallity is not a matter of opinion. Some things are wrong, some things are right, and people don’t get to decide what is right or wrong morally for them . Being gay is one of those things that is wrong, despite what many would like to believe. But of course, people believe what is easiest and has the least moral obligation because we’re too selfish to admit power beyond ourselves.
And to the other poster, I agree with you, I am certainly not saying that we should hate the gays and quarantine them in some prison camp somewhere. We should still be kind to them, but we can’t accept that what they’re doing is right.
History does repeat itself, and yes the two are in fact very similar, because they are both seeking equality in the united states.
The similarities to the churches of the American South’s (The Biblebelt, really) reaction to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender rights are almost identical to their reactions against the abolition of slavery and the illegalization of segregation. Pastors, Preachers, and Bishops stood in pulpits waving the Bible talking about scriptural support and natural law. There is a fantastic book by a civil war scholar named Mitchell Snay called “The Gospel of Disunion” which discusses the role of religion in the sectional divide between the North and South. The similarities are eiry. But on a purely Christian level, as I am a devout, Evangelical, Baptist, Seminary student studying to be a youth minister/missionary/pastor/professor, homosexuals are humans and should be regarded with the same love and respect that Jesus gives them. A Christian standing against the rights of homosexuals is working against the Kingdom of God because they are not obeying Jesus’ commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves.
And what if rapists wanted equal treatment? Pedophiles? Murderers? Just because someone is seeking equality, it doesn’t make it the same situation. It depends on the reason for which they’re being discriminated.
Hmmm, well I used to be of the belief that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice. I have since changed my opinion but I think if I were of either opinion it shouldn’t effect their rights. I have really come to believe that we are going to look back after gays are finally given equal rights and we are going to see how foolish we have been. People are going to feel horrible, or at least some of them will. I know there will still be groups against it just as their are still people against blacks and other races and religions. But overall its going to be one more thing to put on the shame list in America…
Gays are people just like you and I. I can’t understand why anyone would want anyone to feel less than they do. What does that do for anyone? I’m not expressing myself very clearly here. I’ve become somewhat passionate about this, this past year. I hate that it has become a Christian vs. non-Christian thing. I better just stop.
To answer your question, yes it is similar.
IMO it’s not of the same caliber as the fight for civil rights by the blacks in the 60s, but it sure is the same idea.
I have a friend who’s been with his partner for 20 years, through thick and thin, just as a married couple. But when the partner was sick, he was not allowed to visit in the hospital and when the partner died, the family contested the will. The remnants of this man’s life for the past 20 years was divided up by strangers — and you can be sure he didn’t get much out of it. That’s just criminal, IMO.
Were homosexuals sold as slaves? No? Are they segregated? Not like the blacks were. But are they oppressed? Yes.
IRT-diamondintherough22
That was supposed to be a joke. Something to lighten up the conversation…
IRT-Page394
Do hormonal imbalances cause people to become serial killers? Just wondering, you seem to know a lot aobut it.
i was just thinking about this last night, actually. i don’t really know. i wouldn’t compare it to the civil rights movement.
Misguided_Overlord
Okay, That was my 4th post here. It’s just sooo annoying to have to argue with people who aren’t even being rational. And it annoys me that people are being reptitive. Yea i know I’m not very patient. Anyway give me a break here. I’m only a 14 year old.
To silly monkeyboy:
Hormonal “imblances” causes everything. Hormones makes who you are. Have you ever studied the lymphatic system in biology? Hormone levels rise and fall everytime you react to something like a colour or a sound.
Of course it is. I don’t believe it’s a choice, and I don’t see how anyone else can (I mean, it doesn’t exactly have benefits for you in this society). At least, I don’t see how anyone can actually look at the facts and think it’s a choice- the people who take every word of the Bible as the complete truth obviously are only getting their “opinion” from one source, and not really looking at what else is going on out in the real world.
However, even if it were a choice, why is it a bad choice? Take the Bible out of it, because not everyone in this country is Christian and so religious values (there is a difference between religious values and morals, they just happen to be similar much of the time) shouldn’t be the basis for the law that everyone must abide by. The only thing that would make it bad is that sociologically, other people are going to hate you (which is also probably because of the Bible’s stance on the issue and insecurities that people fight inside of themselves). I mean, if it were a choice, you’d have to be stupid or a masochist to be homosexual. But why is it so bad? I mean, homosexuality helps social security and population control.
Even if you do believe homosexuality is a choice, most of the people who are homosexuals are at least under the impression that they did not have a choice. They have had these feelings since they were children and in most cases spent several agonizing years when growing up trying to purge themselves of these feelings. Plenty of them commit suicide over it. Plenty of them become assholes, putting down others (especially those who are already out of the closet or suspected of being gay, so they can distance themselves from it, like “Hey look at me, I’m not gay because I beat the shit out of gay kids!”) and hurting themselves everytime they see how much they’ve hurt someone else. Some of them pray for years for guidance, date the opposite sex to appear straight or to try and make themselves straight, and then when they realize it’s not working they think God has abandoned them. It takes a long time to get that faith in God back, if they ever get it back at all.
Also, the attitude that there is something wrong with gay people hurts straight people. A third of teenage boys who commit suicide do it primarily because people teased them about being gay. A third of all male teenage suicides, whether they really were gay, or whether they were straight and couldn’t take the social ostracism.
In the end, I don’t care if homosexuality is a choice. We don’t restrict the rights of adulterers, do we? We don’t restrict the rights of non-believers, do we? Straight parents have the ability and potential to “mess up” their kids just as much as, if not more than, gay parents do. So why the hell won’t we allow them to get married and have kids? Why are we still doling out harsher punishments for sex crimes between two consenting members of the same sex than the exact same crime between two consenting members of the opposite sex?
Pedophiles and rapists are completely different: they prey on those who they can psychologically, sexually, and physically harm who cannot defend themselves or in some cases consent to sexual activity. Homosexuality is between two consenting people who are actually cabable of being in love with one another.
I just got back from Thespian Conference last night, so I’m tired.
End Novel.
Page934-
Studying psychology, circumstances/surroundings make you who you are. True, genetics have some role in determining who you are, but it is not the major contributor to “you”.
You stated you like green earlier. Simple enough. I like red. Looking back, I remember my first car was red. I had a lot of fun in that car. Since then, 4 of 5 vehicles I’ve owned have been red. My laptop is red. My boat was red. It is simply relating to the “fun” I had in my first red car. If my first car had been yellow, would I like yellow more than red? Quite possibly. Pure surroundings.
And we’re all here to have fun… there’s no sense in getting mean and nasty just because somebody has a different opinion than you. I happen to believe that the Bible is infallible. Does this make me stupid? No. Is it the easy way out? Double no. Am I going to get mad because you don’t believe that? No.
wow, this is amusing. to start…nothing has been proven in the case of nature vs. nurture when it comes to homosexuality. the science that backs up the “nature” claim is questionable…the tests were limited to a few cadavers of homosexual persons, all of whom had died from aids. the question of whether the hormone present had caused the homosexuality or been caused by the disease was never raised. further, most cases in which a homosexual person has sought reversal counseling have been successful (an interesting source is the “love won out” series by focus on the family). on the other hand the “nurture” claim, as seen in that series and others, has made significant gains. i really suggest you thoroughly check it out, on both sides, and examine it for yourselves.
as for the question that was asked,
it does have several similarities. but i don’t recall mr. dan asking if they were the same. because they are definitely not that. there is certainly persecution (which i do not agree with in the least), but homosexuals still share the same civil rights (personal rights guaranteed and protected by the constitution, i.e., freedom of speech, press, the right to vote, etc.) that any american would. marriage is not currently a right protected by the constitution, therefore it is a privilege. in this case, there is a huge difference.
i dont think it’s exactly the same because I think homosexuals choose who they wanted to be, but I do think they should be given equal rights
Oh, and to Misguided_Overlord, curse words serve their purpose in society. I could get my opinion across without cursing, but I choose to use more powerful words in certain places because they evoke emotions, they evoke certain connotations and make my message more easily and intensely expressed. However, if you make your comment a complete curse-fest, then you lose that wake-up call BANG that you’re supposed to use curse words for.
Think about it, curse words are just regular words with special meaning sociologically. “Shit” is poop and “fuck” is sexual intercourse, except we reserve those for when we need them to be the most powerful in meaning. Some words, like “bitch” and “damn” have literal meanings that we don’t always associate fully with their modern connotations.
The evolution of curse words is a little bit fascinating to me, I’m not going to lie. I’m just saying that simply because someone uses curse words for their intended purpose, it doesn’t make them less intelligent (although like I said, it can come off that way if you overuse them to the point of diluting their meanings).
itchy_warthog said
“do any of you notice that God said, specifically, that homosexuality was an ABOMINATION??”
“Homosexuality is mentioned many times in the Bible as a terrible act worthy of judgement and punishment”
Well humor me and cite the passages where god completely and utterly condemns homosexuality…
The only utterance of this topic occurs in Romans 10 I believe where it vaguely states it. In this passage it is not described as a “if your gay you go to hell” thing it is merely another sin. Someone I believe mentioned the fact that homosexuality, is indeed not genetic, two women are unable to have a “gay” child. It is always and will always be a choice on the persons part.
-iced
No. I believe homosexuality is a choice, although some people are more prone to it than others. What I think is especially frustrating about the homosexual rights movement is that they seem to want more than acceptance in our society. They want ENDORSEMENT. For the most part, they are allowed to live the lifestyle they choose. They can live together and practice their sexual preferences just as unmarried heterosexual couples can and do. But instead of accept that freedom and rejoice in having it (bear in mind, it wasn’t that long ago that sodomy was against the law in most states), they demand the right to marry, they have parades and such where they openly engage in public displays of affection, and then act like our not wanting to see what should be kept behind closed doors is our problem. Well, I don’t think so. I don’t ask my neighbors to watch me and my husband make out, and if they did, I would think they would have reason to take offense. These things shouldn’t be done where anyone and everyone can see it. We don’t need to provide our children with an up close and personal sex education.
They want my endorsement. Because I believe what they are doing is sinful, they are not going to get it from me. From the public at large? It is certainly possible. But my belief is not innate. It is based on the Word of God. It is to that I defer in my own perspective about homosexuality. The government cannot and will not change that.
I am posting my response before I read any of the others, so I don’t come to this with too much emotion.
IMO the only choice a homosexual person has is whether or not he/she will be sexually active, or celibate.
Orientation is orientation. Sexual activity is sexual activity.
Whether any of it is right or wrong, is not for me to say.
No
ICEDADERHOLDT-
-Leviticus 18:22;24-30
-Galatians 6:8
-Genesis 1:28
-Leviticus 20:13
-Romans 1:26-27
-1 Corithians 6:9-10
-1 Timothy 1:9-10
- Jude 1:7
Enough?
if it isn’t already, why not?
For those who say that being gay is a choice, that you aren’t born with it, that they can just as easily be straight, imagine yourself just choosing to be gay. It wouldn’t be natural for you, you would know that’s not what you truly are. Why is it different for gays?
Interesting how many people still believe homosexuality is just a choice people make…
I think so.
I’m a bisexual woman. Sometimes I feel more lesbian, and other times I feel more straight. I have tons of friends who are gay and you can ask any of them… no one would choose to be gay if they truly had the choice. Why would anyone willingly choose a lifestyle that is looked down upon so heavily by so many (ignorant) people, and that makes it so much harder to just exist as you are? No one in their right mind would choose to be such a huge target of discrimination. I never chose to be attracted to females. It’s been hard, I’ve been made fun of, shocked my parents, been outcasted, and felt shame for something as natural to me as the color of my skin.
Is it? Yes. Should it be? Not at all. All civil rights have been granted on the basis of who you are, while limits are placed based on how you act. There is no scientific proof that homosexuals are born that way.
I dont buy that crap about “if two women were ment to be together, they’d have compatible parts” either… couldnt the same be said for people who are unable to have kids for whatever reason? Since when did having kids or not become a basis for love? If I get ovarian cancer, and can’t have kids, should I not be allowed to love anyone? If someone is born with some sort of birth defect, and can’t have kids are they unworthy of love?
Seriously… it’s a weak argument.
They have civil rights. What they want now is the consent of Nature, which of course will never happen. Homosexuality is a choice.
Homsexuality isn’t a choice, it’s an orientation. A long time friend who is homosexual told me he could not be straight any more than I could be gay. You either are or you are not. As he explained it, he’d rather be straight and struggled to deny what he was for 22 years before he realized that’s the way he is. It is not simply a choice one makes.
As far as rights go, what rights are they being denied? The right to marry? Marriage has always been between two.. one of each gender. Marriage benefits serve procreation in our society. It’s an incentive to raise a family. Now comes the issue of adopton. Is it good for the child to have 2 parents of the same gender? While it’s better than no parents at all, it’s not better than one of each gender. The family is the first society a child is in, that’s where development of social things starts.
it isnt similar. there is a difference between giving rights to those with different skin color, and rights to different lifestyles
Homosexuals already have civil rights. What they want now is the consent of Nature, which will never happen.
ps. Plz don’t delete my comment, again!
Right now there are laws that prevent homosexuals from marrying or adopting.
In the past there were laws that prevented blacks from marrying whites. Inter-racial marriage was seen as immoral.
No way. NOT the same!
People were made slaves and discriminated againstbecause of their race- that’s wrong no matter what.
I don’t believe gays need special rights either. We have laws that protect all.
((( GRANDMA HUGS )))
Lori
In a way, yes. It’s people who are fighting for rights that they don’t have because they’re different. In a way, no. It’s easy to see who’s a minority due to race, but you can’t tell who’s homosexual by just looking at them, except for the really obvious trannies.
regardless of if it’s a choice or not, people should not judge or discriminate against someone because they are different from themselves.
I think both struggles are centuries old, basic questions facing the human race. There has always been inequality in the world … someone in the cat bird seat, someone on the bottom of the ladder, people who think alike, people who think differently, people who have sex one way, people who have sex another way. It’s all the same. There’s no answer except for everyone to learn tolerance and that won’t happen.
Okay…. I read all the comments and honestly, I wish I hadn’t read every single one.
But I’m chipping in my 2c anyway.
I honestly have no clue whather my being straight was learned or born into me. Do I like guys because I learned to, because of the fairy tales I watched as a little kid, because I have a mommy AND a daddy? Or was it because I was chemically grained that way?
I don’t know. There is nothing I know of in the Bible that says, “Homosexuality is a choice”, and saying that God wouldn’t make someone born a homosexual doesn’t cut it for me.
But discrimination is wrong either way.
Say it is a chemical-hormone-balance whatever. It’s not a choice. If that’s true, then discrimination is definitely wrong against them. They can’t help it.
Now let’s flip the coin, and suppose that it is all a choice.
To determine whether discrimination to a gay-by-choice is wrong, let’s look at somehing I myself have CHOSEN to be.
A band geek.
In the world of 8th grade, there are groups that a typical peson usually falls under. I happen to be a band geek.
Imagine that God floats down to your local middle school one day, picks up all the band geeks, puts them in a corner, and tells them that they’re going to hell unless they drop their tubas or whatever and become something else.
Then all the zealots start pelting eggs at the band geeks, telling them they can’t get married, not letting them adopt children, etc.
Now because homosexuality and band geekiness are choices in this example, they can change. If it’s a choice, then a gay person would, in theory, be able to at least parially “straighten up”. A band geek could completely change themselves, try to forget they ever played their instrument, and go on living life as a prep, a jock, whatever.
Then there are those who refuse to change and they still get discriminated against.
Would it be right?
Someone tell me that discrimination is ever right.
As or the actual question, it is like and unlike the rights movement of the sixties. Sure, gayness is hidable… whatever. But it IS still a fight for equal rights.
to dan: (woah, this is the firs time i’ve ever addressed you!) thanks for continuing the dialogue…and on 3 separate entries! you rock! but now i’m tired of talking from your first entry on sexual orientation and adoption. haha.
i don’t normally read all the comments before i comment, but this time i did. now i don’t know where to start!
in answer to your question, yeah, i think it’s the same. the cirucmstances in which blacks and homosexuals are discriminated against may have differences, (the obvious being that blacks can’t hide that they’re black, but gay people can “pass” as straight) but the emotions and motivations surrounding each struggle is very similar. a lot of people fear what they don’t understand or feel threatened by. i don’t know how gay people can harm the rest of society just by allowing them to live as they are. and after reading the comments, i’m literally tired of hearing the argument about whether it’s a choice or not and i’m tired of hearing that God says it’s immoral and wrong and they’ll be damned to hell. why do people rub that shit in gay people’s faces? as though they don’t get enough hatred coming their way already.
and to the people quoting verses from the bible…that is YOUR truth. what is true for you may not be someone else’s truth. i work with psychotic patients who see things that aren’t there. but who am i to tell them that what they’re seeing doesn’t exist? it’s very real in their eyes.
you can say very easily that being gay is a choice but that may not be the case for those who are actually gay. don’t talk unless you’ve actually walked in another person’s shoes. i liked that one comment that asked the straight readers to try being gay. it would be just as difficult for gay people to try and be straight.
No I do not think it is the same thing.
I have nothing against people who are homosexual. But,it not the same as a minority.
People cannot choose what race they or born.
But,they can choose their sexual preference.
oh, and some factoids:
Q: how many rights come from a civil marriage license?
A: 1,049+
Q: in california, how many of the 300 state rights afforded married couples are offered to registered domestic partners?
A: 15
Q: what do these rights cover?
A: laws protecting married couples in the event of death, marital relationship, divorce, children of married couples, incarcerated persons, spouses of public officials
source: “Why You Should Give A Damn About Gay Marriage,” Davina Kotulski, Ph.D. 2004
to those who complained that gay people already have the same rights as anybody else, think again. also, in the end, i don’t think it really matters what you’re excluded from, but just the fact that you’re excluded and the reasons behind it. if someone told you couldn’t get married because of who you are, wouldn’t that hurt just a little?
you may not agree with homosexuality, but geez, don’t be telling other people how they should live.
“Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.”
hey, isn’t that in the bible??
definitly
I think we should enslave homosexuals and then maybee…..just MAYBEE the fight would be SOMEWHAT similar. That would probly make them see things a bit differently huh?
Michael
As some of you start talking about “sin”, here’s a few things:
-You were born with sins
-No matter how many times you have sinned against others,
repent and you will always be forgiven, providing that repent wholeheartedly
So, I won’t be surprise if you happen to see Sir Elton John in heaven, in future
I can go on and on, for the reason that none of us are perfect
and here’s a good site to look at, while we are at it
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
And here’s a thing about homosexual
For centuries, homosexual had always been a taboo,
and is still true in places like China, say
now I’m not being disrespecting here
What If: God, whichever religion, actually said that homosexual, or even other sexual orientation, is permitted in the kingdom of heaven? (within certain limit say)
Now, would you, as an editor in the past, put that line down in the holy book?
–If you do, majority of the population probably turn their back on you,
and congratz, you are now the worshippers of the devil
–If you don’t, you disobey your God
if you dont like it, take it as a joke
The fight for equal rights for homosexuals won’t be considered a similar fight for civil rights for minorities until nature v. nurture is determind.
yes, i think that they are similar
I don’t know what to say to this one really. My religon tells me that they choose this path. My mind tells me that I want people (in general) to be happy. If adopting a child will make them happy, then go for it. But I get so torn between this argument. The reason why this one is so difficult is because I have a couple good friends who are gay. And I love them with my whole heart. The road that they have taken is not one that I would choose, because I don’t think it is right. I don’t think it is right for me to pass judgment on them. That is God’s place not mine.
To answer your question: I think it is similar in a way, because they are fighting for a right that any straight couple in America has the right to do.
we need to all need to get over it and let the people do what they want man or woman no body can stop them so why try they dont hurt any body so give it a rest it is stupid
lost420boy247@xanga
I fully support the right for all men to have anal sex with anything they want. Bill has occasional sex with his saxophone. Keep it under your hat, though.
No! Because it is their choice. Give me some evidence contrary to my current belief and I might change my mind. This has nothing to do with ‘interfering’ with ones lifestyle, rather it is rejecting (or accepting depending on your view) something immoral.
Nope.
Mr. (or Ms.) Theologian:
Thanks for taking the time to talk about these sorts of things. I’ll certainly be back soon.
in some ways it’s a choice…but in other ways it’s not…its probably more complicated than i really will ever understand, but all i know is that just because some people dissapprove of it, doesn’t mean that it should keep so many people away from their rights. like, hasn’t anyone considered that not everyone is christian? has anyone stopped to remember that we are a free country, with freedom of speech, and freedom of religion? doesn’t anyone in the goevrnemtn realize that by prohibiting gay rights, they are destroying the “freedom” that everyone likes to rant about all teh time?
i pledge allegiance, to the fags, of the divided states of a mary cow, and to the republicans, for which they scam, one nation, above god, invisible, with liberty and justice for none.
o & btw, i sooo agree that the prohibition of gay rights is just like the civil rights movement in so many ways.
No it’s not, you see, the fight for equal rights amoungst homosexuals, is not like those against the minorities. The fight for the equal marriage rights, and so on between same-sex couples, is about how they chose to want to be with the same sex, rather then the oppisote sex, and this usually is thought about males with males, which most people view as sick and wrong. Were as, the same fight minorities have faced/still face, is because they were BORN with a different colour of skin, and are discriminated from much more then what homosexuals are actually. There is hate against same-sex couples, yes. But there’s groups and so on that still express the hate for minorities, such as; KKK, Neo-Nazi’s, and others. It all is very different.
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*************************************************************
1. To yourself, say the name of the only
guy or girl you wanna be with 3
times!
*************************************************************
2. Think of something you wanna accomplish
within the next week and say it to your self 6
times!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
3. If you had 1 wish what would it be? say it to
yourself 9 times!!!
———————————————————————–
4. Think of something that you want to happen
between you and that 1special person and say
it to your self 12 times!!!
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5. Now, heres the hard part! Pick only 1 of these wishes and as
you scroll down focus and
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else but that wish.
* *
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Now make one last &final wish about that one wish that you picked.
After reading this, you have 1 hour to send it out to 15 people, and what
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u only get one chance!!!!! Now scroll down and think of your
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Did you think of your crush? I hope so, that was
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Sorry but once read, must be sent. Yes, this is one of those kinda chain
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Another little thing that I forgot to point out:
Minorities: Are stuck to be discriminated because they were born that way.
Homosexuals: Made a choice, knowing the conquesences, amoungst an ignorant society.
It’s wrong to punish and discriminate someone for being born, though it’s wrong also to be offended by a personal discion. That’s like someone being offended because I decided to wear a green t-shirt rather and blue.
Nope.
L,r
Minorities canNOT change how they are, Homosexuals CHOSE the way they are.
what i always find interesting is how straight people are asked whether they think homosexuality is a choice, or when straight people say it is. how would they know? i am gay. and no it is not a choice. this is one field where i do not make apologies. i am what i am. i never sat down and decided to like men. i just did. i fought it… and lost. this is where many people also get confused. being attracted to men was not my decision. being open and honest about it with myself and the people i love was, and is, my choice. but i could’ve decided to date women and get married and may even have managed to have some children, but if i’m still attracted to men deep down inside, then i’m still gay. unfortunately, you cannot “pray the gay away” as some people profess that you can. if you act straight, do straight, and talk straight, and you’re still gay, you are just in the closet. and yes, we are just asking for the same rights as you guys have.
joe
yes- i think that everyone is born with a sexual preference, and to have that part of a person suppressed is a violation of their human rights.
yes they should be given the same rights as human beings.
it is a choice, though – i am white, and i can’t just one day decide to be hispanic or black, or admit to my parents that i have decided that i want to be native american. the brain is too complicated to figure out if homosexuality is a born-trait, so for now it appears that a person who decides to be homosexual is by choice.
no, because even if you are born a homosexual (I believe in a hybrid of the two theories, you are partly born that way, but you have some free will) you have a choice not to act on your feelings or hide them in some way (I am not advocating this, just saying you can) racial minorities could not hide their identities, and they had no free will regarding their race. This is a different sort of struggle
I think no. Homosexuality is a choice and people have a right to dislike a lifestyle. By choosing homosexuality, I think you have chosen to forgo certain rights. I have many homosexual freinds who claim that it is not a choice but they have all at one time or another been heterosexual, you can’t be both and it not be a choice. So…if there are laws that “discriminate” against homosexuals, I don’t think it’s the same as discriminating by race.
When you really think about it, each view has its reasonable arguments. A homosexual person would side with the homosexuals giving the same reasons like “We were born this way. You can’t force us to be who we aren’t” But then again, they aren’t on a neutral side. Heterosexuals/anti-homosexuals tend to often say that they chose to be this way and it’s an action they chose to take; but they can’t experience firsthand on what they homosexuals are dealing with. Can they really be forced to be heterosexual?
I believe that the fight for gay rights is not exactly the same, but similar to discrimination against minorities. A lot of people keep saying that homosexuals were/are not slaves and that, to my knowledge, is true. However, I would like to remind you all that a “minority” is not restricted to African Americans. There is plenty of other minorities that were not enslaved but were/are still discriminated against and don’t have full civil rights. I think homosexuals fall into that category.
I am a Christian. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I am Christian and I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANYTHING WRONG WITH BEING GAY. I think that homosexuality is something that you are born with. Do you remember when you said “I’m going to be straight!” Well, I know I didn’t do that and most straights probably didn’t either. It’s the same with being gay. I acknowledge that there are verses in the Bible that say being gay is a sin. However, there are also verses in the Bible that say that you should stone pregnant women out of wedlock. Do we do that simply because it’s in the Bible? No. And also, the Bible tells us to love EVERYONE. Do you hear that? EVERYONE! What would Jesus do?
I would like to add that yes, homosexuality is considered a sin in the Bible. But do you see people not being able to marry because they lie? Because they are jealous of other people? Those are considered sins too.
I have to also say that if our government truly wants to seperate church and state, but won’t let gays marry, then that in itself is pulling RELIGION into the mix.
I would like to close with a statement that Christianity is a BELIEF. Look beyond the religious reasons for anti-homosexuality and do you see any reasons that people shouldn’t be gay? I don’t.
I do not know if it exactly a civil issue.
What I do know is that tolerance has grown for homosexuals in our community. The rest of the world I really do not have a clue about.
I think in a way it is. I do believe that homosexuality is something you were born with and you don’t choose to be that way. They are fighting for a right that our country is supposed to grant them because they are American citizens but aren’t getting that right just because of their sexual orientation.
Just a quick note:
In Brian McLauren and Tony Campolo’s book, “Adventures in Missing the Point,” Campolo addresses homosexuality by saying that the orientation (sexual preference) is a born trait, and new advances in science are proving that. The behavior, however, is an action.
They are similar in a way that they are all persecuted by the fear of the people.
I have nothing against the homosexual its the homosexuality you know- hate the sin love the sinner kind of thing. they are not born with it is an action, a sin way different than skin color kind of thing
I completely believe homosexuals are going through a similar fight for civil rights. I don’t believe all are born gay, but many have grown up and cultured in such a way that they become lost in this lifestyle. It’s not a part of you that you can ignore or push away. The only way to deal with this fully is to even the playing field.
Yes.. and no? I think it is similar to the fights for civil rights of minorities for the fact that both didnt have equals rights as the majorities and are fighting for it. On the other hand, I dont think homosexual people were born this way, or was it a genetic thing. I believe that at one point in there life some “feeling” or thought of the same sex came to them and they didnt deny it but accepted it and came to the conclusion that they were gay and followed it.
Living in the sunlight, loving in the moonlight,
Having a wonderful time!
No.
first of all, Noah’s grandson looked at him in such a way and “got with him” which he was punished. that is one of the earliest know homosexual acts i have ever heard. second of all the early Christians chose to be Christians at a time when they had kings that made people worship them. so their persacution was much worse because they were put to death. so to say that the choice to be gay is crazy. is the same is to say that the choice to be a Christian is crazy.
I believe it’s similar, in being discriminated against, maybe not to the same extent because legalizing homosexual marriages is starting to happen and they have a lot of positive contributes still going for them whereas the Civil Rights was just a lifelong struggle that just can’t be compared to.
Discrimination shouldn’t be something being advocated whether or not you agree with homosexuality or not, it IS a choice that the person takes — not something YOU take for them. Sexual preference can change but the person decides whether or not they choose to be different.
Just thought I’d put my 2 cents in since I always check out your page.
+ E
No, in that minorities can be identified on sight. Though some homosexuals can be identified by the stereotypical behavior that the media likes to portray, speaking from experience (my 1st husband came out of the closet a year after our divorce), you can no more identify one’s sexuality any more than you can your spiritual faith just by looking at them. I think the homosexual fight for civil rights more resembles the Crusades (on a much smaller, less world-changing way and less violent scale). By this I mean that one’s sexuality is a personal relationship with one’s self, much in the way that one’s religious faith is a personal relationship with one’s God or One Creator). A “feeling” deep within from a unknown source that cannot be explained by science and logic. I guess it is obvious that I am of the opinion that one is born with their sexuality.
its not similar