Acts and Romans show many women deacons. Women played a much larger role in the early church than in modern fundamentalist churches.
I don’t think so.
hmm, thats a toughy but i’d have to say yes. we miss out on what 1/2 of the population could be giving us because of this
*soap box* I don’t know who started the idea that men should be the leaders?? My guess is the men, lol. But its ignorant, uninformed, and just plain stupid.
being a methodist i feel that this question was answered long ago with a resounding yes! the question i am more worried with is allowing gays in ministry.
according to my church, no. Conservative Church of Christ
top ten?
Bible says no, so wouldn’t that be a bit at odds? To qualify the reasons behind it, the Bible isn’t about equal rights. It’s about compassion and our relationship with God. The Bible doesn’t teach that we should treat everyone the same. It teaches that we should treat everyone in a godly way. Whether we want to believe it or not, men and women were not made the same. Nor do we think the same or act the same. In the same way, God has different roles for us. God has a structure for the family and God has a structure for the church.
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (~Timothy 2:12)
As much as I want to say “yes” and due to the feminist in me, unfortunately the Bible says “no”.
No!
1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Nicholas
That doesn’t mean women have no purpose or part in the church. That doesn’t mean they sit in the kitchen and cook. … just a response for those that say my answer is “ignorant, uninformed, and just plain stupid.”
No. I don’t understand it, but that seems to be what Paul cautioned against. And I don’t have to understand it; God didn’t ask my opinion when he made the Earth, and I don’t think he’s planning to get my expertise on anything either.
i think it’s wrong to give a woman the same job as a minister, but call her something other than that, just to make it “ok.” however, i do not have a problem with men being the ministers/pastors. it doesn’t say that women can’t do anything else, or even that they are not to speak in front of the church, as far as i can remember.
if we follow that rule completely, then shouldn’t all women be covering their heads as well?
Absolutely, this is one of those issues that when people say “the Bible says no” are forgetting the passages that speak of when God said it was ok. Contradictions? Some may say yes. In context they are mostly different instructions for different churches.
and since the bible says women should shut up in church, should we still be stoning them to death for adultery too? wake up, people, men wrote the bible, it was sent down to earth by God. *sigh* when will people learn?
Sure. Why not?
Of course! That’s a stupid question, really. Granted, not all women would be stable enough for the job, but what of those that are? Should you tell them they can’t do a man’s job? Besides, most priests are GAY. So, isn’t it a bit hypocrytical to let a gay be a priest, but not a woman?
eep, i meant to say it wasn’t sent down from heaven by God *hits self in head*
of course… women should have equal rights has men in every way.
ok, so we are to be silent… then, we shouldn’t lead worship….
Sure. I’m down. Then we won’t have the gay child molestation problem as much, probably.
Why not?
Wait… aren’t people reading what the “men” have to say? I wouldn’t be against it, except Paul said no. Remember that bit about all scripture being “god breathed”? The apostle Paul wasn’t a part of some male superiority conspiracy. He wrote what God told him to say.
I can’t post all of Ephesians 5:22-33 here, but it tells of the structure of the family and of the structure of the church. It isn’t that women are inferior and should shut up, it’s that God isn’t a God of chaos. He’s a God of structure. He created both men and women, which are to treat each other as God’s own. God ordained that men were to be the ministers in the church. See also 1 Timothy 3:1-13.
I think I am going to vomit from the responses you got. Honestly, that’s why I don’t go to church anymore. I love people that pick and choose their Bible verses.
what difference does it make?
yes
No.
What does it matter?
With all my heart, yes.
no
No. Definitely not. True, some people take it a bit far (where women can’t even sing in the choir), but for the most part, no. The Bible gives explicit instructions for the leadership in the church, and it calls for MEN.
i go to a private university & that topic comes up sometimes in conversation/debate. i think women can be leaders in the church (i.e. children’s ministers, youth pastors, etc) but they shouldn’t be THE leader. God has created structure in families & the world & the church. just as God says the man is the head of the household, man is also the head of the church.
as much as my somewhat naive point of view says that women can do whatever men can do…this is something they should not do.
JAM4the1Lamb and Nstacks good verses. How do we get the views of women into the church? I am not disagreeing with you just want to see this taken a step further. Women possess character qualities that are sadly lacking in most men and we need them to keep us balanced.
Tim
I find it astounding that modern culture is still adhering to a collection of 2000 + year old documents word for word.
I will never cease to be amazed how people manage to justify themselves.
Women have every right that men do.
Well, considering I’m a youth ministry major…yeah, I think women today have a place in the ministry of the church. My denomination was one of the first to allow it. Excuse me…”fellowship”, not denomination. Don’t ask me the difference. I’m not really thrilled these days with some of the views.
Anyways…
I don’t have a technical problem with it. I would consider it on a case by case basis. However, I think it’s better suited to men. But, because of feminism modern women have lost their collective bearing.
In response to Tim: Family is as important as church. Family was never meant to be divided from church. Sure, the pastor preaches, but the parents are to be teaching their children. And we are to be reaching and teaching others, as we are enabled. A pastor is the leader of the church, but a pastor is not the only one effecting the people. Sadly, we seem to have a break-down both in parents leading kids spiritually and in people stepping up and reaching others.
Absolutely! Women were used in Ministry.
Oh, I was just reminded of another point. Men are set as the leadership of the church. But women do have leadership roles too. Nobody can minister to the individual needs of a woman better than her mate and other women.
Yes and they do.
(((((( GRANDMA HUGS ))))))
Lori
no.
JAM4the1Lamb: I would point out that both Ephesians and 1 Timothy continue on to advocate obedience of slaves to their masters. Should we strictly adhere to those verses as well? Some things change with time.
yes
which church? mine does.
Nope.
i guess it depends on the values of the church. in my church, it would be ridiculous for them not to. but i can see in some churches women have very specific rank and position in society that wouldn’t include them in any leadership positions. so for those churches, no.
Well I personally would never be one… I have some old fashioned ideas about men and women when it comes to me personally. I don’t consider it a huge issue though and I don’t impose my ideas on others. I have heard women preach before and learned from them… I believe men were created to be leaders, but I also realize this is not an eternal thing and I need to be open minded.
casey_at_bat, It does not matter what women possess that men do not possess. What matters is what God has told us to do… We should obey that without questioning His authority because He knows best.
1 Corinthians 11:7-9, 12 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. (12)For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
Nicholas
TheNightStar: The idea of slavery first off wasn’t what we saw in the Americas. It was typically someone captured in war or imprisoned because of inability to pay off debt. Not lifetime slavery. More like bond-servant. Second, the advice to slaves and “owners” was in treating each other in godly ways. We can barely understand the idea of slavery because of what happened in the US. Here, it was no some torture, but could be abused. So they were reminded of the name they bore: Christ.
Children were told to respect their parents in those books too. Should that be disregarded now because “some things change with time”?
Hi Dan,
When my Dad was in the hospital, I spent a good part of the afternoon talking to the female minister from my parents church (Methodist)….I’m not into organized religion at all…but I was very very impressed with her. She really was something special.
I fordain means allow, then yes.Though the Bible says that man should spread the Holy Word, I think people take that too literally.
i’ve read the comments that some people have written that are against women being ordained. this is why i’m not christian. i can’t be part of a religion that views women as second-class citizens. and the argument that men and women aren’t equal is stupid. duh, our physical bodies aren’t “made” equally (ie., women can have babies, men can’t), but it doesn’t mean that our value and worth as human beings are any different. and yet, supposedly, god loves us all the same…yeah, i’m not down with hypocrsiy.
if they are qualified (i.e., blessed by God with the proper fruits of the spirit), yes.
Yes.
Too meemee925: This isn’t about equality or inferiority. Why is it assumed that because a women isn’t a preacher that she’s “second-class”. Jesus did more to raise the view of women at that time than anyone has ever done. Women aren’t viewed as second-class to those that understand scripture. The Bible describes the church as the bride of Christ. That sounds like women are darn important!
Stepping back and looking at the big picture, is it the message or the messenger that we are supposed to be listening to? Are we to take the message word for word or look for the deeper meaning behind it?
The bible also mentions tattooing, but how many Christians are walking around with crosses, bible verses, ichthus, etc. tattooed upon themselves? The bible is not meant to be taken literally. If a woman thinks her calling in life is to be a minister than let her. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
yeah, of course! our school had a female minister come talk to us a month ago or something.
they were going to bring in a female rabbi and have both of them talk to us about the connection between religions and stuff (because theyre friends and get along so well which is strange, i guess)
but the rabbi couldnt make it last minute
so the minister talked to us about her experience and it was pretty cool.
i dont get why women cant be ordained.
keep it in the pews, lady.
I don’t see how it would matter either way, but I guess that’s just my Southern Baptist upbringing. Personally, I see no problem with ordaining women. On the contrary, I think men should be looked at more closely. Think of how many scandles have been caused by males ministers.
I’m not saying that those letters are worthless, and indeed, not all things have changed with time. But in those times, most women were not given the scriptural and religious instruction that men were, so they could hardly be expected to lead a church. As modern Christians, we need to discern how these letters, written to specific congregations two thousand years ago, apply to us. Children respecting their parents applies; slavery (in any form) does not.
Which Church?
No. *points to those passages quoted by others* There’s not really much of a way to take those figuratively. It’s pretty straight-foward.
I’m glad I’m agnostic.
i dont see why not i dont see any real problematic after effects
TheNightStar: We have slavery today. In a different form. We are held to the places we work to perform. We are indebted to credit companies. To our government. Not so different from what Paul addressed. We should not treat anyone above us differently simply because we are unhappy with them. Paul wasn’t condoning their system however. He did though address the “system” of the church. He set specific structures for the church according to God’s inspired writing. His message is no different from the entire text of the Bible. Women are not to be disregarded by men. And men are not to be ignored by women. Feminism’s results doesn’t replace that God is still above us and God has created us to serve Him in a structured way. It’s not about men’s rights or women’s rights. It’s about serving and glorifying Him as HE expects. Not how we think we should just because we want.
Nope!
NO!!! I totally believe that in women have roles, but they should be limited. For example, I think they can teach children since God has made women better at raising little kids, and the youth leaders can be mixed (with men and women) because of the undergoing physical and emotional changes that both sexes go through when they hit puberty. But I believe that it is only men that should be able to teach adults. I also believe it is the role of men (and only heterosexual) men to be senior pastors (preaching to the whole congregation) and the deacons/elders (or bishops and priests). Just because women cannot have high leadership roles in the church such as pastor or priest does not mean that women are not important, as they are just as important in spreading the Gospel of Christ as men are. But leadership has always been commanded by God to be the responsibility of the males.
dan, i would really like to know your opinion on this subject.
no.
Quote from a previous post:
“1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:03 PM by Nstacks”
i lean towards no
Going off subject here for a second…
“We have slavery today. In a different form. We are held to the places we work to perform. We are indebted to credit companies. To our government.”
No one forces you to get that job, or use credit, or live under any specific governing body. You are free to live where you choose and live your life as you please. I think that’s nothing like being stolen from your family as a child, sold to the highest bidder, and forced to live the way someone else chooses for you.
Hehehe, I can’t quite posting…
I think to answer this, not only do you have to pay attention to the letters to Timothy and Ephesus (Ephesians), but you CAN NOT forget 1 Corinthians 13. No position in the church is more important than another. No person in the body of Christ is more important than another, male or female. You can’t say that the women’s God ordained roles are less important than the male’s God ordained roles. Or that the ones that can be filled by both are superior. This whole issue of superiority of the sexes or gender rights has nothing to do with God’s church. We all God’s creation, no matter the position He allows us to serve in.
* we rock!!!
* we rock!!!
Taxicab_Messiah_101: You are completely right. It’s nothing like it. Neither is the form of “slavery” mentioned in the Bible. That was what I was saying earlier. US 1800s slavery is not at all the same as what Paul addressed.
Definitely not. There is no scripture authority to do such.
I think there is a larger question that needs to be asked than the one originally posed. And that is, who is the actual authority? God is. Judging from many of the responses, lots of folks are answering according to their personal opinions. Well, as the Word says, His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. And it is His Word, whatever it might say, that is authoritative. Not our personal tastes and opinions.
The whims and caprices of society shift and change to fit an ever increasing self-indulgent culture that wants designer religion and designer principles to fit personal comfort and evolving fads. We speak of God but what we wind up doing is making ourselves little gods, subject to our own self-generated code of righteousness. The only authority we desire to answer to is ourself, ultimately.
Some folks ask why are we heeding a book written thousands of years ago. The answer is that the spirit of God inspired the writing of that book. And that same God was, is and forever will be. The greatest wisdom of man is nonsense to God, but somehow we manage to render his Word as not relevant for our time, as if we have some authority to do so. And God laughs from his throne.
Well folks, there is no one more relevant than God. And denying or dismissing His authority diminishes Him not at all. But to consider how awesome He truly is, He knew us and loved us before the beginning of the world and pursues us today, even if we reject Him. Even if we despise Him. His word is true and His authority is unmatched, and even though we question, doubt and mock His word, He still loved us enough to send His son to die for us so that by His grace through faith, we might be reconciled to Him, if we acknowledge our sin and ask His son who died in our place to purify us and come reside in our hearts. What kind of authority would suffer his creation to have the right to accept or reject Him of their own volition? An incredible God He is. But do know there is a God, and you and I are not Him.
JAM4the1Lamb, saw your other post afterwards….
Why not? If you look at this question as a general statement, is there anything fundamentally wrong about letting a woman lead in priestly or ministerial duties, formally? Obviously, they already do all around the world, whether or not they have formal titles. Nuns and people like Mother Teresa are some prime examples of wonderful ministers. And anyone of the faith can confirm that these women are working according to God’s pleasure. Who can condemn those who are called to lead, and who are we to say the God has said that no woman may lead, simply because of her sex?
In the Bible we have commonly mistranslated 1 Cor. 14:26-35 as saying that women may not preach, when all Paul is really doing here is reprimanding them for talking out of order during the service, as he would persons of any gender who would interupt or distract from the worship of God. You should read this article: http://www.kencollins.com/question-32.htm. And if you really want to research the original greek of the Bible for this passage, talk to Dr. Fuller at Lee University about this issue (mfuller@leeuniversity.edu). He’ll boggle your mind.
And CantW8til08, I am Southern Baptist too, and I, as does the Southern Baptist Convention; taken from sbc.net: “Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.
While Scripture teaches that a woman’s role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.”
Oh by the way, sorry, the above posts was made by Lana (thepxii) — Nathan’s (doorkeeper’s) newly wed wife. Heehee.
i guess the idea is weird to me, but then i think about it andi ‘m like why not? i knew of a few churches in my hometown and there was this big dispute and people left churches becos they let a woman be a deacon. i’m kinda like…women can serve God in the same capacity a man can…i dont get what the big deal is. I think its just new and people freak out.
ryc: i think my whole life has been about bad timing.
Tigahscribe and kdpickens write much more eloquently than I. …or quote the SBC articles of faith better. I’ll end my commenting simply saying “here here.”
there is much debate going on about this at my church…I believe that God created woman for a purpose just like he created man. To say that a woman does not have the abilities would be wrong…but the Bible is pretty strict when it comes to the leadership. I am still not sure where I stand on this one…
Absolutely, if God tells a woman to spread His word in that way, why should we let narrow minded men tell her otherwise?? have a wonderful day Michael
Hmmm…People have brought up 1 Timothy 2…the chapter also says 9, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, …that would exclude most women from our churches today.
…I think God will speak thru whomever He chooses. Let’s not forget Deborah the “leader” of Israel and prophetess. …
Okay, I commented on my husband’s (doorkeeper) account earlier by accicent. Here I am as myself. =P
I would like to add that, in the real world, despite our idealism about men and women being perfectly equal, that they are not. By very nature, men generally have certain strengths, tendancies, and instincts not found generally in women, and vice versa. I find that men are usually more suitable for dealing with high-stress leadership positions and making fast decisions, where women are usually overly fretful about details and too forgiving to make quick decisions. (Notice that I say usually.) This is a fact of life; science has documented such general differences between men and women as these traits, and therefore they affect each sexes natural propensity towards leadership. But different situations call for different leadership strengths, and not all male and female personalities fit their sex’s norm description. A good christian should never go so far as to rule out the possibility that God would find a woman’s natural characteristics most suitable for the task. Not only have women been used in religious leadership roles throughout the Bible and still today, God has even found them appropriate to fill in for men when they were not obedient to God’s call (Deborah, for example). How’s that for saying women aren’t fit to lead, as fit as man even when God wants them to be.
I would end in saying that in general, though, women are not called as often as men to be the conventional “pastor,” and I think that’s saying something–not that they should never be, but that in general they are not.
couldn’t resist gettin in on this one… i have to say no. the bible is pretty clear on this one [props to ppl using scripture to support their reasoning] it’s kinda frustrating tho to see ppl equating women not being ministers with women being 2nd class citizens. read the bible a little bit closer–the whole thing–and you’ll see Jesus was totally down with women’s rights. for his day and time, his stance on women’s roles was revolutionary and controversial. besides…it’s pretty shallow to think that equality is defined by the ability to have the same position or title as men. call me naive, but really tho, isn’t it about respect and equal treatment regardless of position, title, sex, race, etc…??
don’t say contradictions. The Bible does NOT contradict. The Bible makes it clear that a Man should be the pastor of the church, but that doesn’t mean it is a sin for a woman to be one, and it doesn’t mean a woman can’t speak infront of the church.
Ah…..no. It has nothing to do with fairness. Religion isn’t “fair”. Men are above women…God-Men-Women-Children. No I’m not being sexist either. That’s just they way God set things up. The only time that a women should be ordained is under special cirrcumstances. Only God can reveal when that is. In some cases it’s if there is no man strong enough or willing enough to fill the roll….
~G~
um, why not? i think that they show a better perspective on different subjects
my wife is one of the best pastors I know. I would dare anyone to argue with her that she shouldn’t be ordained.
I think the passage from Corinthians (the one about women keeping silent in the church) has to be put in its proper context. Women were uneducated when this was written. Also, it was customary to separate men and women in the synagogue. So, the women would call out to their husbands to explain something to them, because, being uneducated, they did not understand what was being taught. This was embarrassing and disruptive. That’s why Paul instructed them to consult their husbands at home. I really don’t think that this passage applies to educated, literate women who have a heart to serve God as a pastor. A pastor would have to be capable of both understanding and teaching the scripture, which is the issue that Paul was addressing. The majority of the women of the day simply did not have the background for it.
as a good Free Will Baptist in NC.. no
Absolutly. Some of the best sermons I’ve heard were by women.
I’m for women’s lib & all but a traditionalist when it comes to my religion & I don’t believe there should be female priests.
Trick question: What do you mean by priest or pastor? If you mean the contorted caste system most western minds are acclimated to, then sure, why not forbid women in ministry? We’ve already got an exclusive elite. Why not make it that much more so? In pure, historic terms, I think anyone may be a pastor. “Pastor”, in New Testament usage, referred to a gift, not an office. And the gift was given “as the Spirit wills”.
In response to many of the “issue verses” so dutifully quoted: The term “church” used by Paul in those verses does not mean “the Church: ecclesia”, it was referring the the early practice of believers meeting in synagogues, where input from women was strictly taboo. Paul was cautioning Christians against causing undue strife. Christians were never meant to be back-street rebels with an attitude. The concept of “Church” as an organization replete with buildings and funds did not emerge until the late second century. Women were free to exercise their gifts among the saints. Priscilla and Dorcas being but two examples. Read Acts. There’s more about women than men.
That said, Paul does highly encourage men for one office, that of Bishop. That is not to say it is forbidden. Why? Lets’ face it: Men and women have differences. They are physically, mentally and emotionally different–to vary degrees, yes, but different. We teach it in biology, psychology, and, as noted by a recent lawsuit, public education. There are difference which suit men and women for different roles. It’s not a rule, just a better “fit”.
The argument that the bible says this and that about women being priests is idiotic reasoning. It’s literally impossible to live how the bible tells us to, there are far to many contridictions in it. And you know why that is? Your deity did not write it, a bunch of men compiled stories from hundreds of years. But say we are going to ignore the glaring contradictions listed, and follow the bible, otherwise, word for word… Can I sell children into slavery? Can I stone women? Can I have 300 wives?
NO! For anyone thinking that the references are just cultural, it’s NOT!
oh. And those who said that slavery back then was not what slavery was like in the 1800s… didn’t the enslaved jews build the fucking pyramids? Slavery was a very similar concept then.
I want to first say that I am glad to see a variety of perspectives here. However, if i am not mistaken no one here in their scripture quoting quoted Jesus? I thought the writers of the rest of the NT were following in the Christian-Jewish Jesus movements of the 1st through 3rd centuries? Yes, they were…but only a FEW of you guys thought about the SOCIAL context of the culture of the 1st century. Remember these NT writers were men in a patriarchal society…they had to exist within the system. They were trying to start a movement within and around Jewish and Roman culture. Alternative gender roles would be a lesser issue to think about and deal with…which is sad. NOW, let me say this…Jesus was more progressive but not free of having to exist in this system. BUT the thing is that current biblical scholarship has theorized that the “beloved disciple” could (and I emphasize the could) have been a woman. Jesus gave women precedent and favor…
Ordain women. Live in the context of which we are NOW.
i am catholic and have been brainwashed to think that its not acceptable. *rolls yes*
-Shrug, sure… why the hell not?
Hey Dan! I didn’t look back far enough to see if you used my question, but it’s fine with me if you’d like to.
My 1st inclination is to say Yes…. but considering what is in the bible, possibly not, but then again….. Ah geeze, I’m confused….
Why is this even a debate? I thought the Middle Ages had ended long ago.
yesyesyesyesyes.
the bible does say women shouldnt.
but the bible also supported polygamy.
so where do hermaphrodites fit in God’s big picture? do they get to be ordained since the scriptures seem to only specify that women cannot be ordained, rather than specifying that only men should be? if scriptures are meant to be taken literally, and it is soooo straight forward, why would god leave out some of his creaton?
Heck yes!
Yes but the church isnt likely to do that because they’re sexist and look down on women. Hence why they covered up many religious events.
i’m in the belief that the Bible says no. i don’t think the commands are outdated because the reasons paul cited were not based on culture. but women can be effective servants nevertheless. our deacons and pastors were sometimes exhorted to ask their wives’ opinion on many issues. let the men be the heads while we be the necks, hahaha. btw, dan, did you know that my friend was going off to sea with the navy? you really sounded like you do. funny….
Why not?
I used to think it was so unfair that men seemed to have higher roles than women in the Catholic Church, but after reading “Catholicism For Dummies,” it makes more sense to me now. The priest and the Church are like a married couple. The Church is often referred to as “her.” So it is like the Mother. The priest is the Father. The Church is just as important as the priest, as is even held in higher respect than the priest.
If a priest was female and not male, it would be like a marriage between two Mothers. And you know how the Church is against gay marriage.
This all makes sense to me, yet I would like to see a way for women to be as active as men in the Church.
Well, the whole thing about the Church being female could be something made up by men. I’ve wondered if men have long ago twisted religion into a form of female oppression.
The Bible describes the church as the bride of Christ. That sounds like women are darn important!
Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:36 PM by JAM4the1Lamb
Important how? So they can be brides and give birth? Sorry, but I’d rather be a pastor and have authority than be a bride. That whole stupid “bride” thing sounds like an awful consolation prize.
This post is reason # 457230587 (assuming it’s that low) that I’m no longer associated with the Christian faith. Even if some of the things Jesus had to say were good things, I could NEVER associate myself with a religion that 1) does not give equality to women and men, 2) has a god that is egotistical to demand worship and prayer, and 3) has a god that creates people to have homosexual tendencies, then says “Oh, you’re a sinner.” Makes no damn sense.
DAMMIT it made it all one paragraph! Ugh! The English major in me is upset!
Should have been “egotistical enough”, not just “egotistical”.
This is why I should not comment when I am sick. >.<
SOrry that you feel that way bittersunday. There’s no egotism in the creator wanting his created universe to turn to Him. He is perfection. And He loves you far more than any kind of love you will find in this world. The entire life and story of Jesus shows that.
As for everyone’s comments about “culture” and such, God’s Word is not based on culture and human logic, but His authority (whether we want to recognize it or not). To remove the culture argument, please refer to the first couple chapters of Genesis, where God instructed man with what he should do. Then he brought man a help-mate, with a role she is to fill as well. Neither is better than the other. Both are servants of God. THAT is equality. (Before any rants about creation being an alagory, please read those chapters and decide where Genesis goes from alagory to historical narrative). This issue is about serving God, not personal desire.
i approve
If you mean Pastors, no. Women can prophesy. And the older women can teach the younger women. Paul said that pastors are to be the HUSBAND of one wife, and that women should not teach or have authority over the man.
Yes…I will be an ordained minister in 2 1/2 years.
The Assemblies of God allows women to be certified, licensed or ordained ministers. Two years ago, at General Council, they passed a bylaw that allows each individual church to vote to have women as deacons.
I think people are taking it out of context. those responses that have said that the scriptures are refereing to the structure god has established in the family are the ones getting it right. I believe a woman can be ordained in ministry to teach, IF she is under her husband and in unity with him (so they speak the same words and represent each other properly)
Think about it- the five fold ministry. do we forbid women from evangalism? from teaching? from being phophetic in the spirit? no! why then is it different for pastoral leadership? aren’t they all ministry?
If a single woman is properly under the authority of her father, she should be permitted to participate in leadership. if a married woman aligned peacefully with her husband, there should be no reason for her not to be able to be ordained just because of gender.
That verse about women being quiet is so taken out of context. it also says there that men need to die to their wives as christ died for the church. i dare you to try to say you do that daily.
Our church has a lady pastor. The churches first one. I remember there was a big dispute about it. A lot of the older women were against the decision.
There is nothing wrong with a woman pastor/priest/minister. Lets reverse this. What if men could not be pastors/ministers/priests. That would change the opinon of a lot of people.
All is equal under God so let all have the ability to teach in the same equality.
This is one of your posts where the question is not that interesting but the comments sure are.
like to hear it from Mr. Dan!
it’s UNbiblical for women to be ordained as ministers/priests. it’s obvious, however, that they are to have a role in the church, just not teaching and preaching, esp. over men. i don’t believe it’s anything to take offense over, however, because men and women were not created equal, they were created differently. it’s obvious that men and women have their differences physically and emotionally, and it was for a purpose. so men and women are not equal and should be treated accordingly. neither role is demeaning, just that society has taught as that women’s roles are. meh.
JAM4the1Lamb: so why can’t women be preachers? what is god’s reason for not wanting women to be preachers? please give me an answer so i don’t think that most christians just blindly follow what is written in the bible.
and what’s up with this quote: “”1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
why is it a shame for women to speak in the church? what does this quote mean? is it to be taken literally? cuz that’s what it sounds like some people in this discussion are doing! and if they are, then tell me how this quote doesn’t view women as second-class citizens.
The denomination which my church belongs to does ordain women.
I don’t think any church should be obligated to do so though. They should only do it if they are absolutely certain it is the right thing to do biblically … and not because it is politically correct.
YES!!!!!!!
yes of cos
yes
oops i mean no.
wait i really meant yes.
yes.
history is now uncovering the fact that women were very active in the church and held high positions in the early days… and I think they had the right idea… so yes
if they can do it
I say “yes,” that wome should be ordained, however, that comes as a thee most hypocritical “yes,” I can possibly muster.
I believe they would be excellent Priests or Ministers, would be equally fit for the job, and some may be better than whom we have out there preaching now. Perhaps there would have bee a lot less instances of pedophilia within the Roman Catholic Churches, as well. (Just a hypothesis, not a fact of course.)
It would also benefit the women’s lib movement and all that other equality non-sense that tags along with those ideals and which forced some of us women out of the kitchen and into the work-force, where we never wanted to be.
Yet, there is something which nags at me, which tells me in all honesty – I would be more inclined to attend services where the body of the message taught and preached was coming from a male. To me, some how, his word is more solidified in my reasoning. Perhaps it’s left over residue from early childhood years, being raised as a Roman Catholic, that men somehow are just a tad bit better, a tad bit more correct, a tad bit closer to God and in fact – just a tad bit more Godly.
Some churches do. I grew up ELCA, and we did. I don’t see anything wrong with. I mean, if God calls you to be a minister, how can I argue with that?
No … no …. no!!!!
Sure, why not?
. . . . .my father’s whole family is Catholic. My mother changed from Lutheran to be Catholic when they were married. It has been a long-going arguement between my mother and my aunt Shelly whether or not they should be able to be ordained. I believe. . .they should not. Women have other many many important roles in the church, the Bible even said so, if you want that arguement. This might be a weird arguement for me, what being such a racist and sexist hater, but still. . .
nope
Of course! (silly question, IMO…)
I grew up in a church where anyone could be a pastor. It was never an issue to me.
Whatever they want to be.
This question really isn’t one about rights, it’s about shoulds. Don’t infer what the question doesn’t ask. Do women have the right to be ordained. Of course. “Should they” is a completely different question, one that I’m not going to try to answer in this kind of forum.
Besides, few should want to be leaders anyway. I don’t tend to trust anyone who’s seeking to be a leader. A person seeking leadership is not usually a person wanting to be a servant shepherd.
The Christian church has a long history of exploiting and downplaying women. Why stop now?
By the way, in your previous entry, you should all realize it’s impossible to “fix” gay people, or “get them back on the right straight track with the good ol’ Bible”. You can’t turn gay men straight. You just can’t. It’s not a choice. It’s in their genetics, and no book full of inconsistencies and downright lies can alter that. Of course, this presents the question of “why would God have made homosexuals if he’s omnipotent, then banned it?” Well, God doesn’t exist. But that’s aside from the point.
It lasted long enough for me to leave my husband the first time) and almost a year apart, we got back.
The 2nd time around must of been his, because we are currently separated again obviously….this time for good though.
Sure why not. Certainly in specific cases where it’s a congregation made up largely of women. Also in the church it’s ok. If you have a problem of with a church for that reason, find a different one or politely disagree. It’s not a big enough issue that if you believe one way or another you’ll lose out on heaven or anything.
Emphatically YES
Last I checked – the Anglican church already ordains women, as well as many others (Lutherans, etc.) – I believe it’s the Catholic church that is one of the only ones who hasn’t yet allowed it to happen. I believe women should be allowed to be ordained into ministry in any church.
Such sad questions. Homosexuality, women in the clergy. What is sad, is not the questions in and of themselves, I have definite opinions that I could expound upon at length, but I am not a persuasive speaker, so I leave that task for others until otherwise called.
What is sad, is that of all the things in scripture, we often pick things that are so seldom mentioned in scripture, yet have such a powerfully devisive effect. Is this what we are called to do? Is this what the vast bulk of scripture asks of us? Find things that are devisive and raise them up – and spend our energies there? I think not.
Bible says no, so wouldn’t that be a bit at odds? To qualify the reasons behind it, the Bible isn’t about equal rights. It’s about compassion and our relationship with God. The Bible doesn’t teach that we should treat everyone the same. It teaches that we should treat everyone in a godly way. Whether we want to believe it or not, men and women were not made the same. Nor do we think the same or act the same. In the same way, God has different roles for us. God has a structure for the family and God has a structure for the church. Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:02 PM by JAM4the1Lamb
That basically sums up what I would say. I wish I could say ‘yes’, but Paul said not to in 1 Corinthians. Then again, in Acts, there were women running around minstering and preaching. Frankly, I think God had a different plan in mind.
God bless, Shohna
>Unequivocably, yes.
Why not? My church’s head pastor is a woman and I LOVE her. She gives the best sermons!
I used to be avidly “no!” about it, but as i study more i think that the reason why the Bible says “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man” is more because of the culture of the day, not so much that women can’t be used in ministry. I have seen lots of Spirit-filled women being used by the Lord.
So now I would avidly say “sure, why not?”
Yes, A women should be given the chance to be successful in everyway. besides we women can give birth!
no
No real opinion but my gut instinct says no.
Absolutely yes! I see all these replies and can’t help but think “wake up people!”. You leave the job up to men and you end up with priests taking advantage of young boys. You have men leading the church that slept with their best friend’s wife the night before or beat their own wife before coming to church. Yeah, that’s really a leader I want. Granted, men and women were not created equally. Walk into society and that fact is thrown in your face constantly. Women can do everything a man can and then some, without bitching about it.
The whole ‘Me Jane, You Tarzan’ concept doesn’t cut it with me. This is 2006 people and if women ever expect to truly have ‘equal rights’ in this world then we will have to take it upon ourselves to make sure it happens.
well, we are all one in Christ, meaning we have no gender in our holy spirit, so why not? Joyce Meyer does great things in her ministry and I teach at my church every so often.
i don’t see why not … but i’m not well ‘versed’ in the Bible or the many interpretations, so …
eeek that’s a hard one. I love watching Joyce Meyers yet for some reason I’ve been told that women should not be preachers. It must be somewhere in the bible.
it has been documented that there were many women disciples of Christ… if women are good enough to dispense eucharist, read the word or God and the like then WHY can they not be permitted to become priests? Because then there would be no place/use for Nuns. The Catholic Church particularly is going to have to do something in short form as less and less young men are hearing the call to become Priests!
whAT cHURCH ARE YOU REFERRING TO. mANY OF THEM ALREADY HAVE WOMEN PRIESTS AND MINISTERS INCLUDING MY OWN UMC.
Absolutely. Keep going on that question, Dan – see what the thought is of allowing the clergy to marry as well…
I would say a minister. Even though that still bothers me. I really don’t think women should be in the pulpit. But that was just the way I was raised. Not seeing but 1woman in my life in the pulpit. It sitll weirds me out to see that.
I think the women can help lead, but I think God calls the men to be the leaders over the church. He calls men to be the head of the household. -S.
Yes, of course. It’s rather hypocritical that the church preachs about men and women being equal, yet wont allow women to be ordained.
Yes, they should. =)
No. As a church we value women very much. They play active roles. However, the biblical model for leadership is male. This is not a chauvinistic statement. The pattern is set in Genesis and the two offices of church leadership (pastor, deacons) in the New Testatment, are always in masculine terms. It is not an issue of fairness it is an issue of who is given the responsibility.
Coming from a Catholic backround, now a practicing Charismatic Evangelical….I can honestly say YES.
After all, wasn’t it women who first saw Christ risen? Wasn’t it a woman who first carried the gospel?
No… I think that they should be allowed positions to teach other women but Biblically they are not to have any other authority.
Good grief…my comment to the last comment.
Regarding the interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12 — did you notice that he starts the sentence with “I do not permit…?” In fact, most of the chapter is a lot of “I statements.” It’s possible that Paul is relating his own thoughts and philosophies here (although he does not mark it specifically as he does in 1 Cor 7). In all fairness, though, that’s an immediate reaction on my part, not one formed through any kind of research, so take it with a grain of salt the size of a cell phone.
Hmmm… The bible seemingly says no… But then again, man (humanity in general) wrote the bible. Toughy…
Yes, the idea of women being silent was not from God. It was from a disciple. I always thought no too, but have since learned better. I was counting how many woman were pointed out as being leaders in the early church at one point. I should try to find where I wrote that down……..
eireann writes: You leave the job up to men and you end up with priests taking advantage of young boys. You have men leading the church that slept with their best friend’s wife the night before or beat their own wife before coming to church.
Erieann, you’re implying that women neither sexually molest children — untrue — nor commit marital infidelity — untrue — nor abuse their husbands — blatantly untrue.
Women can do everything a man can and then some [...]
Exactly my point.
if we are good enough to raise your behind … work … and do everything else we are good enough for that too!
Well, I’m going through ordination, so I hope so! YEAH UMC!
AndyGiessman writes: It is not an issue of fairness it is an issue of who is given the responsibility.
I’m not sure how depriving one gender of the opportunity of responsibility is “not an issue of fairness.”
ya stirred the pot this time….
I have known women ministers that were great.. I dont think God cares as long as the job is getting done.
The church should spend its time on more important issues.
Only to teach other women and children….not to be a pastor of the church. The bible clearly states that the head of the church should be a man.
I think that the larger question here is: shouldn’t the Church be free to decide what it’s going to do without the interference of non-members?
I mean, I don’t pretend to understand what “The Church” means. Let’s assume we’re talking about the Catholic Church. Well, not being catholic, it doesn’t matter all that much to me whether they should ordain females. I think that the catholic church should be free to practice its beliefs (men only priests) without having to feel like it’s being put upon by non-catholics. Now, whether it’s catholics themselves that are trying to pressure the catholic church to ordain females is another matter, and one best left to….well, catholics.
What I’m intrigued by is the vast number of people who care–or seem to care about this issue–without believing as catholics do, or without being members of the catholic church. Does it really make that much difference to us, or is it because we don’t want the catholic church to support beliefs significantly different from their own?
kosovodad
No, they shouldn’t. But they should definitely be able to teach, heck, women weren’t idiots then or now. My mom teaches/disciples tons of people, and she’s really good at it, but that doesn’t mean she should be leading the church.
“if we are good enough to raise your behind … work … and do everything else we are good enough for that too! Posted 2/21/2006 at 9:46 AM by mafrenzy”
And it’s not that women aren’t good enough to do the job, they’re just not called to. Sure the bible says that women should submit to their husbands as the head of their house in Christ, but don’t forget the next sentence, telling men how to treat their wives. Women submiting to their husbands and men of the church is just them ducking for God to slap the men.
no
Absolutely not!
NO!!!
why not…woman are more organized about things and get right to the point about it if there is a problem or what not…woman are very spiritual also so whats the difference between a man and a woman becoming a priest, president of the US, or anything else…these things need to change anyway…i mean how do they know how we would do if they never put a woman as a leader in anything?
hell no! i mean, they already have the abillity to give birth! shit, that’s just too much power. TOO MUCH, I SAY!
(this statement brought to you by sarcasm…& the letter “p” for “poop.”)
no
YES… The Church should allow women to be ordained. The Church has always changed witht he times. For example Mass is now in English and we can eat meat on Fridays. It is time… But I don’t think it will happen in my life time.
I will probably get in big trouble here,because my denomination is against women being preachers. But,personally I have no problem with it.
priests? NO! the point isnt rights, the point is what does God want. were any of Jesus’ apostles women? no. and if you say that that was just a cultural thing, dont you think that God’s discisions transend human culture? women are important in worship, they just have different roles than men. in Mark 14:3 it talks about a woman comming and poured this ointment on Jesus as a preporation to be buried, because (verse 8) He wouldnt get that honor after He was killed. that the way it works, the woman have a “behind the scenes” job, which is so much more important then the public stuff, because without the preperation, you have nothing.
ministers? yes because there are different forms of ministry other than the priesthood. arent we suposed to care for the widows and orphans? anyone can do that if they just care.
edlives writes: Wasn’t it a woman who first carried the gospel?
wasnt it four men who first wrote those gospels???
Of course they SHOULD… but it will never happen because the Church is run by old outdated men who are probably more out of touch with what God wants for his creation than the common person… The church hasn’t grown because of its respect and good treatment of humanity (of any kind or gender), it has grown through the influence of politics and suppression of people… some more than others… if anything history should have played out differently in that women were to have the higher pedestal…. They are our mothers, our prime nurturers and go far in many things that men lack…
if by Church (capital “c”) you are referring to all Christianity, i would have to say “yes”, since i am a postulant to the Episcopal priesthood and hope to be ordained a priest in 3 years or less. I have many women friends of all sorts of Christian denominations that are ministers, as well as priests, and they are wonderful, caring human beings. Just as it takes both genders to get a full picture of the human species, it takes both genders to effectively minister to all humanity, particularly when there have been instances of abuse by one or the other gender.
oh, and for those who have cited biblical authority, it might be worth noticing that Jesus promoted many things that the religious elders had declared anathama, and that had also “come from God” the same way Paul’s letters had… remember, Prisca was a deacon in the early church and she was female…
God calls us women to do many things. God is not bound by time, so why should we put God in a box and limit what God can/will do? “Behold I do a new thing”
There is good debate on both sides of the issue. Traditionally, the answer is No, and you would be in good company with that view. There were, however, strong women in the early church of Acts that some consider lead disciples (Priscilla and her husband Aquila of Acts 18). Some thing the ordering of names is significant because, back then, the more important person (leader) was named first. Bible.com commentaries would side with you if you view women should have pastoring (“leadership over men”) rolls.
i think they can be deacons, if we understand the meaning of the word in NT times. deakonos means “to wait on tables” deacon is simply an act of servanthood. in every good sense of the word. someone who puts others in front of themselves. to be an ordained minister or priest, there is nothing biblical about that. as far as having women elders, i’m cool with that.
CORRECTION
i think they can be deacons, if we understand the meaning of the word in NT times. deakonos means “to wait on tables” deacon is simply an act of servanthood. in every good sense of the word. someone who puts others in front of themselves. to be an ordained minister or priest, there is nothing biblical about that. as far as having women elders, i’m NOT cool with that
i meant to say that i am cool with female deacons! sorry for the confusion!
Now THIS is one, I completely don’t understand. The best answer I’ve ever gotten as to why women should not be allowed to be ordained in “this is the way we’ve always done it. If we change now, we’ll look bad. We’lkl have to re-examine all our other policies and CLEARLY we don;’t want to do that!!!”
Completely illogical and unreasonable. But then again, as many of us have learned, those can be The Church’s greatest qualities, can’t they?
(by The Church I mean the bull-headed, closed-minded judgemental people who decide they have the power, over God, to run things down here).
Yes. Women could be touched by god just as well as men.
No, women should not be ordained ministers where they can teach over men.
Women leading a women’s Bible study is fine, women teaching sundayschool over kids is fine, but women teaching over men, is not ok.
of course, that’s ridiculous.
yeah why not?
It is important to understand the context of the time of Jesus and even Paul and along that whole century, women were looked upon as property and slavery was justified and obviously that is wrong, this is sad, to objectify and dehumanize a creature that God made, women should have equal rights and have just as much capablity to lead as men do, Christ came to free all and bring jubilee……. I leave you with this, Galations 3:28 ‘There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, MALE nor FEMALE, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I don’t see any place in the bible where it is forbidden. I work for my church and my boss (director of student ministries) is a woman. All of the places that people generally look at to say no are often looked at without looking at cultural context. I didn’t read all the comments, but for example, on the first page someone uses 1 Corinthians out of context.
Absolutely.
i think that being a minister is about getting the word out…does it matter who is doing the speaking?
did mother teresa not spread the word much more than many of male counterparts?
Not as the head priest or head minister, but there are so many areas to serve in the church- teaching, helping, assisting, helping in the nursery, doing sound systems, working with youth, etc….. Christ came not to be served, but to serve… so if we are truly following His example it should be a joy to serve in even the more humble areas.
Well lets see…If Christ rose from the Dead and the first people he told to speak of his miracle resurection were 2 women..and he could have gone anywhere and told anyone but he choose 2 women to be his messenger then yuppers!!!!!!
yes
yes,
why shouldn’t they be allowed? the church that I attend has a few women ministers. Who happen to get a very good serman. There are also male ministers at this church, however sometimes women can direct the attention to a different angle of a situation. Men can do that too, I’m not saying that they can’t. Its just a different outlook.
I dont think there is anything wrong with having a women minister. its just the preset that the minister should be male.
I wonder, if God had been first a woman..would this really be an issue?
Yes. A woman is just as able to spread the word of God as a man.
No.
my church has a woman pastor.
Absolutely.
i don’t see why not.
Definitely yes. I’m in a ministry class right now and we’ve gone over a lot of Scriptures that show women as leaders and ministers. There is no basis in the Old Testament for not having women in leadership positions (Deborah in Judges, Huldah the prophet in 2 Kings & 2 Chronicles, etc.) Many of Paul’s writings have been misinterpreted due to translational biases or selective literalism as well. Jesus placed a high value on women and entrusted them with the message of his resurrection first. He also revealed to Martha that he the Resurrection and the Life in John 11, and that he was the Messiah to the Samaritan woman in John 4. God is also using many women right now as pastors, missionaries, evangelists, chaplains, etc. If God had set an absolute premise that women should not be ministers equal with men then why would He bless their ministries? God enables those He has called, no matter their gender, race, or life situation. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). If anyone has any questions to ask me about this topic please feel free to comment on my site. I don’t want to get in an argument about it but I would love to dialog about it.
Yes. Why shouldn’t they?
Eva.
I find the number of people with firm NO’s amazing. Even Paul couldn’t make his mind on this one. In Acts he has women take important roles in the churches he founds.
It’s amazing how people start with a world view and then read the Bible to support it.
I have mixed feelings on this topic. the bible says that women should be silent in church, but the bible was also written at a different time and different rules applied. such as, back then women got married and had children at 14 years old. these days that would be completely unacceptable, infact its not even legal in some states. just like back then, it said that women shouldn’t be able to speak in church, but now it’s perfectly normal for women to speak, lead worship, and do other things. AND men aren’t offended and don’t think it’s unacceptable. maybe being the leader of the church is too big of a job, but not speaking is pretty harsh.
Jesus preached as much to women as to men. He preached more to Mary Magdeline then he did all of the others; so much so that Paul was jealous. The Risen Christ appeard to Mary Magdeline before he appeared to any others, telling her to go and tell the others. The others disbelieved her until Christ appeared to them. The Catholic Church, while shoving women to the back, nonetheless acknowledge that Christ appearing to Mary Magdeline first makes her the Apostle to the Apostles. Since Paul’s authority as the head of the Catholic Church is based on the fact that he saw Jesus before the other (male) disciples, following this logic then Mary Magdeline is in fact the head of the Church. Paul sent many letters during his ministries to various towns, introducing women as leaders in the church and one as an apostle. So the BIBLE indicates women are leaders of the church – the equivelant of priests or ministers or pastors. Religions have spurned the teaching of the Bible by refusing to allow women to be leaders in the church.
Moses says:
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Pretty good stuff this old testiment I can see why so many people are religious
Yes!!
No. It may be incomprehensible for us to understand but women should not be ordained for ministry/priesthood. It’s Biblical
In reply to all these comments, women are used in same and sometimes greater ways, but should not be ordained to preach.
this is a toughy ain’t it? our roles as a woman and a man are different. not being able to be ordained doesn’t mean women can’t take these positions. not being able to be in these postions doesn’t mean that women aren’t worth as much as a guy, simply, we were made for different roles. no no, not being able to take these roles doesn’t mean women can’t lead in fact, women should lead, but just in different ways.
no. i dont think so at all because God put man incharge of the household. think about it, your a dude the head of the house and your whife is in charge of the church
andrew
I don’t think it is right. I am all for women’s rights, but I believe it says in the Bible that men should be the pastors/priets, therefore I have no problem with that rule.
[ariana]
yes!
OF COURSE NOT. god doesn’t respect women. they’re evil because eve was decieved by the serpent so they should not be ordained.
gosh people. equality? man WAS created before woman!
yes
Yes they can and should be able to be either!
nope, if church isnt supposed to interfer with state, state cant interfer with church. It’s the states right to say women are equal to men, and it’s the churches right to honor its traditions.
Absolutely. Women are exactly the same as men, except we look different and care more about our butts. But seriously — I believe that the Catholic denomination specifically is too old-fashioned; things aren’t the same nowadays as they were in the time when the Bible was written. Women are held higher; we no longer have to follow behind our husbands, sweep the kitchen all day and have our hands cut off if we paint our fingernails. So yes, women should definitely be allowed to be priests.
Yes why not – women are just as capable of everything as men.
I think women should be allowed to fulfill their full potential in God. If that means them being a leader, then why not?
Our pastor, Alan Hewitt did a series on gender rights. Women and men are not the same, they have different roles, but still, women should be allowed to fufill their potential, along with men.
I showed up way too late on this one so no one will actually read this, but the whole point of the gospels is that Jesus was raised from the dead. That was what made him more than just a mere man, he was the son of God. Now, this was important news and the person God chose to pass this message on, for the very first time, was Mary. The first God-ordained gospel preacher was a woman. She was told by the angel to give this message to the 11 remaining disciples. If a woman was good enough for God, shouldn’t a woman be good enough for man?
I See no problem with Female ministers but the cant be lesbian
I recommend that the people saying no read the book titled “Beyond the Curse” by Aida Besancon Spencer or “Why Not Women?” by Loren Cunningham and David Joel Hamilton. Before you answer with a resounding no, you deserve to know the context of these Scriptures you are quoting. Paul himself appointed women as leaders in the early church. Jesus also elevated women in his ministry. Read deeper and research. You’ll be surprised at what you find! I also want to remind those of you who say that the OT has no evidence for women to read about Deborah, Ruth, Esther, Rahab and the other women in the Old Testament who God used in mighty ways. Also, to refresh your memory: Joel 2:28-29 says “And afterward, (after the Messiah comes…), I will pour out my Spirit on ALL PEOPLE. Your sons AND daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.” This was fulfilled at Pentecost. This is still being fulfilled today. And if you don’t think women can do a good job then I suggest you look at the churches that they do amazing things in. Such as The Salvation Army and other Wesleyan traditions permitting women clergy. Those are my thoughts…
I’m seeing alot posts in this where men say no they shouldn’t but they dont’ even provide a valid reason… Blind thought….
Dont know why this is a tough one for people, but of course. My aunt is a pastor, and my own church has a woman pastor.
I can’t believe women would want to be part of an organization that won’t allow them full partnership. I think they should all just get out while the gettins good.
I’ve been reading through the comments and am amazed at both the quantity and the intensity. What I kind of wonder about is why there has to be so many rules? Why is there so much conflict in Christanity? It seems it should be pretty simple (made in god’s image, aspire to live a holy life), but man can’t leave anything alone. Has to slant everything through the lenses of self-hood. Frist – note that when I said “man can’t leave anything alone” I didn’t mean just the male gender; I meant the human race. Hmm; is it possible that the word ‘man’ in the bible means the same thing? After all, in Genesis – the very first chapter of the very first book (Gen 1:27) “So god created man in his own image, in the image of god created he hi: male and female created he them.” (is the ‘man’ in this sentence generic for humanity? would seem so as it also states both were made in god’s image) So if male & female are created in god’s image, then is 1/2 of god to submit to the other 1/2 of god? Both are created in god’s image, but both are not good enough? God must be schizophrenic.
Kinda hard for a woman to be the husband of one wife as Paul comands, isn’t it?
I think the church should allow women to be ordained as ministers. However, I don’t agree with women being the pastor of the church. It’s a bit complicated if you don’t understand how the body of the church works, or how God himself constructed the church body. But yes, women should be ordained, but do you really have to be ordained to even be a minister in Gods eyes?
Comments (256)
nope.
yes. of course. it’s no fair not to.
third
why do we do that?
What do you say Dan????
I dunno what “ordain” means, haha.
YES
Acts and Romans show many women deacons. Women played a much larger role in the early church than in modern fundamentalist churches.
I don’t think so.
hmm, thats a toughy
but i’d have to say yes.
we miss out on what 1/2 of the population could be giving us because of this
*soap box* I don’t know who started the idea that men should be the leaders?? My guess is the men, lol. But its ignorant, uninformed, and just plain stupid.
being a methodist i feel that this question was answered long ago with a resounding yes! the question i am more worried with is allowing gays in ministry.
according to my church, no.
Conservative Church of Christ
top ten?
Bible says no, so wouldn’t that be a bit at odds? To qualify the reasons behind it, the Bible isn’t about equal rights. It’s about compassion and our relationship with God. The Bible doesn’t teach that we should treat everyone the same. It teaches that we should treat everyone in a godly way. Whether we want to believe it or not, men and women were not made the same. Nor do we think the same or act the same. In the same way, God has different roles for us. God has a structure for the family and God has a structure for the church.
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (~Timothy 2:12)
As much as I want to say “yes” and due to the feminist in me, unfortunately the Bible says “no”.
No!
1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Nicholas
That doesn’t mean women have no purpose or part in the church. That doesn’t mean they sit in the kitchen and cook. … just a response for those that say my answer is “ignorant, uninformed, and just plain stupid.”
No. I don’t understand it, but that seems to be what Paul cautioned against. And I don’t have to understand it; God didn’t ask my opinion when he made the Earth, and I don’t think he’s planning to get my expertise on anything either.
i think it’s wrong to give a woman the same job as a minister, but call her something other than that, just to make it “ok.” however, i do not have a problem with men being the ministers/pastors. it doesn’t say that women can’t do anything else, or even that they are not to speak in front of the church, as far as i can remember.
if we follow that rule completely, then shouldn’t all women be covering their heads as well?
Absolutely, this is one of those issues that when people say “the Bible says no” are forgetting the passages that speak of when God said it was ok. Contradictions? Some may say yes. In context they are mostly different instructions for different churches.
and since the bible says women should shut up in church, should we still be stoning them to death for adultery too? wake up, people, men wrote the bible, it was sent down to earth by God. *sigh* when will people learn?
Sure. Why not?
Of course!
That’s a stupid question, really.
Granted, not all women would be stable enough for the job, but what of those that are?
Should you tell them they can’t do a man’s job?
Besides, most priests are GAY.
So, isn’t it a bit hypocrytical to let a gay be a priest, but not a woman?
eep, i meant to say it wasn’t sent down from heaven by God *hits self in head*
of course… women should have equal rights has men in every way.
ok, so we are to be silent… then, we shouldn’t lead worship….
Sure. I’m down. Then we won’t have the gay child molestation problem as much, probably.
Why not?
Wait… aren’t people reading what the “men” have to say? I wouldn’t be against it, except Paul said no. Remember that bit about all scripture being “god breathed”? The apostle Paul wasn’t a part of some male superiority conspiracy. He wrote what God told him to say.
I can’t post all of Ephesians 5:22-33 here, but it tells of the structure of the family and of the structure of the church. It isn’t that women are inferior and should shut up, it’s that God isn’t a God of chaos. He’s a God of structure. He created both men and women, which are to treat each other as God’s own. God ordained that men were to be the ministers in the church. See also 1 Timothy 3:1-13.
I think I am going to vomit from the responses you got. Honestly, that’s why I don’t go to church anymore. I love people that pick and choose their Bible verses.
what difference does it make?
yes
No.
What does it matter?
With all my heart, yes.
no
No. Definitely not. True, some people take it a bit far (where women can’t even sing in the choir), but for the most part, no. The Bible gives explicit instructions for the leadership in the church, and it calls for MEN.
i go to a private university & that topic comes up sometimes in conversation/debate. i think women can be leaders in the church (i.e. children’s ministers, youth pastors, etc) but they shouldn’t be THE leader. God has created structure in families & the world & the church. just as God says the man is the head of the household, man is also the head of the church.
as much as my somewhat naive point of view says that women can do whatever men can do…this is something they should not do.
JAM4the1Lamb and Nstacks good verses. How do we get the views of women into the church? I am not disagreeing with you just want to see this taken a step further. Women possess character qualities that are sadly lacking in most men and we need them to keep us balanced.
Tim
I find it astounding that modern culture is still adhering to a collection of 2000 + year old documents word for word.
I will never cease to be amazed how people manage to justify themselves.
Women have every right that men do.
Well, considering I’m a youth ministry major…yeah, I think women today have a place in the ministry of the church. My denomination was one of the first to allow it. Excuse me…”fellowship”, not denomination. Don’t ask me the difference. I’m not really thrilled these days with some of the views.
Anyways…
I don’t have a technical problem with it. I would consider it on a case by case basis. However, I think it’s better suited to men. But, because of feminism modern women have lost their collective bearing.
In response to Tim: Family is as important as church. Family was never meant to be divided from church. Sure, the pastor preaches, but the parents are to be teaching their children. And we are to be reaching and teaching others, as we are enabled. A pastor is the leader of the church, but a pastor is not the only one effecting the people. Sadly, we seem to have a break-down both in parents leading kids spiritually and in people stepping up and reaching others.
Absolutely! Women were used in Ministry.
Oh, I was just reminded of another point. Men are set as the leadership of the church. But women do have leadership roles too. Nobody can minister to the individual needs of a woman better than her mate and other women.
Yes and they do.
(((((( GRANDMA HUGS ))))))
Lori
no.
JAM4the1Lamb: I would point out that both Ephesians and 1 Timothy continue on to advocate obedience of slaves to their masters. Should we strictly adhere to those verses as well? Some things change with time.
yes
which church? mine does.
Nope.
i guess it depends on the values of the church. in my church, it would be ridiculous for them not to. but i can see in some churches women have very specific rank and position in society that wouldn’t include them in any leadership positions. so for those churches, no.
Well I personally would never be one… I have some old fashioned ideas about men and women when it comes to me personally. I don’t consider it a huge issue though and I don’t impose my ideas on others. I have heard women preach before and learned from them… I believe men were created to be leaders, but I also realize this is not an eternal thing and I need to be open minded.
casey_at_bat, It does not matter what women possess that men do not possess. What matters is what God has told us to do… We should obey that without questioning His authority because He knows best.
1 Corinthians 11:7-9, 12 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. (12)For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
Nicholas
TheNightStar: The idea of slavery first off wasn’t what we saw in the Americas. It was typically someone captured in war or imprisoned because of inability to pay off debt. Not lifetime slavery. More like bond-servant. Second, the advice to slaves and “owners” was in treating each other in godly ways. We can barely understand the idea of slavery because of what happened in the US. Here, it was no some torture, but could be abused. So they were reminded of the name they bore: Christ.
Children were told to respect their parents in those books too. Should that be disregarded now because “some things change with time”?
Hi Dan,
When my Dad was in the hospital, I spent a good part of the afternoon talking to the female minister from my parents church (Methodist)….I’m not into organized religion at all…but I was very very impressed with her. She really was something special.
Love, Candy
yes
Why not?
Absolutely not.
1 Tim. 2:11-14
1 Cor. 14:34-37
1 Tim. 3:2,4
Titus 1:6
…for starters.
I fordain means allow, then yes.Though the Bible says that man should spread the Holy Word, I think people take that too literally.
i’ve read the comments that some people have written that are against women being ordained. this is why i’m not christian. i can’t be part of a religion that views women as second-class citizens. and the argument that men and women aren’t equal is stupid. duh, our physical bodies aren’t “made” equally (ie., women can have babies, men can’t), but it doesn’t mean that our value and worth as human beings are any different. and yet, supposedly, god loves us all the same…yeah, i’m not down with hypocrsiy.
if they are qualified (i.e., blessed by God with the proper fruits of the spirit), yes.
Yes.
Too meemee925: This isn’t about equality or inferiority. Why is it assumed that because a women isn’t a preacher that she’s “second-class”. Jesus did more to raise the view of women at that time than anyone has ever done. Women aren’t viewed as second-class to those that understand scripture. The Bible describes the church as the bride of Christ. That sounds like women are darn important!
Stepping back and looking at the big picture, is it the message or the messenger that we are supposed to be listening to? Are we to take the message word for word or look for the deeper meaning behind it?
The bible also mentions tattooing, but how many Christians are walking around with crosses, bible verses, ichthus, etc. tattooed upon themselves?
The bible is not meant to be taken literally. If a woman thinks her calling in life is to be a minister than let her. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
yeah, of course!
our school had a female minister come talk to us a month ago or something.
they were going to bring in a female rabbi and have both of them talk to us about the connection between religions and stuff (because theyre friends and get along so well which is strange, i guess)
but the rabbi couldnt make it last minute
so the minister talked to us about her experience and it was pretty cool.
i dont get why women cant be ordained.
keep it in the pews, lady.
I don’t see how it would matter either way, but I guess that’s just my Southern Baptist upbringing. Personally, I see no problem with ordaining women. On the contrary, I think men should be looked at more closely. Think of how many scandles have been caused by males ministers.
I’m not saying that those letters are worthless, and indeed, not all things have changed with time. But in those times, most women were not given the scriptural and religious instruction that men were, so they could hardly be expected to lead a church. As modern Christians, we need to discern how these letters, written to specific congregations two thousand years ago, apply to us. Children respecting their parents applies; slavery (in any form) does not.
Which Church?
No. *points to those passages quoted by others* There’s not really much of a way to take those figuratively. It’s pretty straight-foward.
I’m glad I’m agnostic.
i dont see why not i dont see any real problematic after effects
TheNightStar: We have slavery today. In a different form. We are held to the places we work to perform. We are indebted to credit companies. To our government. Not so different from what Paul addressed. We should not treat anyone above us differently simply because we are unhappy with them. Paul wasn’t condoning their system however. He did though address the “system” of the church. He set specific structures for the church according to God’s inspired writing. His message is no different from the entire text of the Bible. Women are not to be disregarded by men. And men are not to be ignored by women. Feminism’s results doesn’t replace that God is still above us and God has created us to serve Him in a structured way. It’s not about men’s rights or women’s rights. It’s about serving and glorifying Him as HE expects. Not how we think we should just because we want.
Nope!
NO!!! I totally believe that in women have roles, but they should be limited. For example, I think they can teach children since God has made women better at raising little kids, and the youth leaders can be mixed (with men and women) because of the undergoing physical and emotional changes that both sexes go through when they hit puberty. But I believe that it is only men that should be able to teach adults. I also believe it is the role of men (and only heterosexual) men to be senior pastors (preaching to the whole congregation) and the deacons/elders (or bishops and priests). Just because women cannot have high leadership roles in the church such as pastor or priest does not mean that women are not important, as they are just as important in spreading the Gospel of Christ as men are. But leadership has always been commanded by God to be the responsibility of the males.
dan, i would really like to know your opinion on this subject.
no.
Quote from a previous post:
“1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:03 PM by Nstacks”
i lean towards no
Going off subject here for a second…
“We have slavery today. In a different form. We are held to the places we work to perform. We are indebted to credit companies. To our government.”
No one forces you to get that job, or use credit, or live under any specific governing body. You are free to live where you choose and live your life as you please. I think that’s nothing like being stolen from your family as a child, sold to the highest bidder, and forced to live the way someone else chooses for you.
Hehehe, I can’t quite posting…
I think to answer this, not only do you have to pay attention to the letters to Timothy and Ephesus (Ephesians), but you CAN NOT forget 1 Corinthians 13. No position in the church is more important than another. No person in the body of Christ is more important than another, male or female. You can’t say that the women’s God ordained roles are less important than the male’s God ordained roles. Or that the ones that can be filled by both are superior. This whole issue of superiority of the sexes or gender rights has nothing to do with God’s church. We all God’s creation, no matter the position He allows us to serve in.
* we rock!!!
* we rock!!!
Taxicab_Messiah_101: You are completely right. It’s nothing like it. Neither is the form of “slavery” mentioned in the Bible. That was what I was saying earlier. US 1800s slavery is not at all the same as what Paul addressed.
Definitely not. There is no scripture authority to do such.
I think there is a larger question that needs to be asked than the one originally posed. And that is, who is the actual authority? God is. Judging from many of the responses, lots of folks are answering according to their personal opinions. Well, as the Word says, His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. And it is His Word, whatever it might say, that is authoritative. Not our personal tastes and opinions.
The whims and caprices of society shift and change to fit an ever increasing self-indulgent culture that wants designer religion and designer principles to fit personal comfort and evolving fads. We speak of God but what we wind up doing is making ourselves little gods, subject to our own self-generated code of righteousness. The only authority we desire to answer to is ourself, ultimately.
Some folks ask why are we heeding a book written thousands of years ago. The answer is that the spirit of God inspired the writing of that book. And that same God was, is and forever will be. The greatest wisdom of man is nonsense to God, but somehow we manage to render his Word as not relevant for our time, as if we have some authority to do so. And God laughs from his throne.
Well folks, there is no one more relevant than God. And denying or dismissing His authority diminishes Him not at all. But to consider how awesome He truly is, He knew us and loved us before the beginning of the world and pursues us today, even if we reject Him. Even if we despise Him. His word is true and His authority is unmatched, and even though we question, doubt and mock His word, He still loved us enough to send His son to die for us so that by His grace through faith, we might be reconciled to Him, if we acknowledge our sin and ask His son who died in our place to purify us and come reside in our hearts. What kind of authority would suffer his creation to have the right to accept or reject Him of their own volition? An incredible God He is. But do know there is a God, and you and I are not Him.
JAM4the1Lamb, saw your other post afterwards….
Why not? If you look at this question as a general statement, is there anything fundamentally wrong about letting a woman lead in priestly or ministerial duties, formally? Obviously, they already do all around the world, whether or not they have formal titles. Nuns and people like Mother Teresa are some prime examples of wonderful ministers. And anyone of the faith can confirm that these women are working according to God’s pleasure. Who can condemn those who are called to lead, and who are we to say the God has said that no woman may lead, simply because of her sex?
In the Bible we have commonly mistranslated 1 Cor. 14:26-35 as saying that women may not preach, when all Paul is really doing here is reprimanding them for talking out of order during the service, as he would persons of any gender who would interupt or distract from the worship of God. You should read this article: http://www.kencollins.com/question-32.htm. And if you really want to research the original greek of the Bible for this passage, talk to Dr. Fuller at Lee University about this issue (mfuller@leeuniversity.edu). He’ll boggle your mind.
And CantW8til08, I am Southern Baptist too, and I, as does the Southern Baptist Convention;
taken from sbc.net:
“Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.
While Scripture teaches that a woman’s role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.”
Oh by the way, sorry, the above posts was made by Lana (thepxii) — Nathan’s (doorkeeper’s) newly wed wife. Heehee.
i guess the idea is weird to me, but then i think about it andi ‘m like why not? i knew of a few churches in my hometown and there was this big dispute and people left churches becos they let a woman be a deacon. i’m kinda like…women can serve God in the same capacity a man can…i dont get what the big deal is. I think its just new and people freak out.
ryc: i think my whole life has been about bad timing.
Tigahscribe and kdpickens write much more eloquently than I. …or quote the SBC articles of faith better.
I’ll end my commenting simply saying “here here.”
there is much debate going on about this at my church…I believe that God created woman for a purpose just like he created man. To say that a woman does not have the abilities would be wrong…but the Bible is pretty strict when it comes to the leadership. I am still not sure where I stand on this one…
Absolutely, if God tells a woman to spread His word in that way, why should we let narrow minded men tell her otherwise??
have a wonderful day
Michael
Hmmm…People have brought up 1 Timothy 2…the chapter also says 9, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, …that would exclude most women from our churches today.
…I think God will speak thru whomever He chooses. Let’s not forget Deborah the “leader” of Israel and prophetess. …
Okay, I commented on my husband’s (doorkeeper) account earlier by accicent. Here I am as myself. =P
I would like to add that, in the real world, despite our idealism about men and women being perfectly equal, that they are not. By very nature, men generally have certain strengths, tendancies, and instincts not found generally in women, and vice versa. I find that men are usually more suitable for dealing with high-stress leadership positions and making fast decisions, where women are usually overly fretful about details and too forgiving to make quick decisions. (Notice that I say usually.) This is a fact of life; science has documented such general differences between men and women as these traits, and therefore they affect each sexes natural propensity towards leadership. But different situations call for different leadership strengths, and not all male and female personalities fit their sex’s norm description. A good christian should never go so far as to rule out the possibility that God would find a woman’s natural characteristics most suitable for the task. Not only have women been used in religious leadership roles throughout the Bible and still today, God has even found them appropriate to fill in for men when they were not obedient to God’s call (Deborah, for example). How’s that for saying women aren’t fit to lead, as fit as man even when God wants them to be.
I would end in saying that in general, though, women are not called as often as men to be the conventional “pastor,” and I think that’s saying something–not that they should never be, but that in general they are not.
couldn’t resist gettin in on this one…
i have to say no. the bible is pretty clear on this one [props to ppl using scripture to support their reasoning] it’s kinda frustrating tho to see ppl equating women not being ministers with women being 2nd class citizens. read the bible a little bit closer–the whole thing–and you’ll see Jesus was totally down with women’s rights. for his day and time, his stance on women’s roles was revolutionary and controversial.
besides…it’s pretty shallow to think that equality is defined by the ability to have the same position or title as men. call me naive, but really tho, isn’t it about respect and equal treatment regardless of position, title, sex, race, etc…??
don’t say contradictions. The Bible does NOT contradict. The Bible makes it clear that a Man should be the pastor of the church, but that doesn’t mean it is a sin for a woman to be one, and it doesn’t mean a woman can’t speak infront of the church.
Ah…..no. It has nothing to do with fairness. Religion isn’t “fair”. Men are above women…God-Men-Women-Children. No I’m not being sexist either. That’s just they way God set things up. The only time that a women should be ordained is under special cirrcumstances. Only God can reveal when that is. In some cases it’s if there is no man strong enough or willing enough to fill the roll….
~G~
um, why not? i think that they show a better perspective on different
subjects
my wife is one of the best pastors I know. I would dare anyone to argue with her that she shouldn’t be ordained.
I think the passage from Corinthians (the one about women keeping silent in the church) has to be put in its proper context. Women were uneducated when this was written. Also, it was customary to separate men and women in the synagogue. So, the women would call out to their husbands to explain something to them, because, being uneducated, they did not understand what was being taught. This was embarrassing and disruptive. That’s why Paul instructed them to consult their husbands at home.
I really don’t think that this passage applies to educated, literate women who have a heart to serve God as a pastor. A pastor would have to be capable of both understanding and teaching the scripture, which is the issue that Paul was addressing. The majority of the women of the day simply did not have the background for it.
as a good Free Will Baptist in NC.. no
Absolutly. Some of the best sermons I’ve heard were by women.
I’m for women’s lib & all but a traditionalist when it comes to my religion & I don’t believe there should be female priests.
Trick question: What do you mean by priest or pastor? If you mean the contorted caste system most western minds are acclimated to, then sure, why not forbid women in ministry? We’ve already got an exclusive elite. Why not make it that much more so? In pure, historic terms, I think anyone may be a pastor. “Pastor”, in New Testament usage, referred to a gift, not an office. And the gift was given “as the Spirit wills”.
In response to many of the “issue verses” so dutifully quoted: The term “church” used by Paul in those verses does not mean “the Church: ecclesia”, it was referring the the early practice of believers meeting in synagogues, where input from women was strictly taboo. Paul was cautioning Christians against causing undue strife. Christians were never meant to be back-street rebels with an attitude. The concept of “Church” as an organization replete with buildings and funds did not emerge until the late second century. Women were free to exercise their gifts among the saints. Priscilla and Dorcas being but two examples. Read Acts. There’s more about women than men.
That said, Paul does highly encourage men for one office, that of Bishop. That is not to say it is forbidden. Why? Lets’ face it: Men and women have differences. They are physically, mentally and emotionally different–to vary degrees, yes, but different. We teach it in biology, psychology, and, as noted by a recent lawsuit, public education. There are difference which suit men and women for different roles. It’s not a rule, just a better “fit”.
The argument that the bible says this and that about women being priests is idiotic reasoning.
It’s literally impossible to live how the bible tells us to, there are far to many contridictions in it.
And you know why that is?
Your deity did not write it, a bunch of men compiled stories from hundreds of years.
But say we are going to ignore the glaring contradictions listed, and follow the bible, otherwise, word for word…
Can I sell children into slavery?
Can I stone women?
Can I have 300 wives?
NO!
For anyone thinking that the references are just cultural, it’s NOT!
oh.
And those who said that slavery back then was not what slavery was like in the 1800s…
didn’t the enslaved jews build the fucking pyramids?
Slavery was a very similar concept then.
I want to first say that I am glad to see a variety of perspectives here. However, if i am not mistaken no one here in their scripture quoting quoted Jesus? I thought the writers of the rest of the NT were following in the Christian-Jewish Jesus movements of the 1st through 3rd centuries? Yes, they were…but only a FEW of you guys thought about the SOCIAL context of the culture of the 1st century. Remember these NT writers were men in a patriarchal society…they had to exist within the system. They were trying to start a movement within and around Jewish and Roman culture. Alternative gender roles would be a lesser issue to think about and deal with…which is sad. NOW, let me say this…Jesus was more progressive but not free of having to exist in this system. BUT the thing is that current biblical scholarship has theorized that the “beloved disciple” could (and I emphasize the could) have been a woman. Jesus gave women precedent and favor…
Ordain women. Live in the context of which we are NOW.
i am catholic and have been brainwashed to think that its not acceptable. *rolls yes*
-Shrug, sure… why the hell not?
Hey Dan! I didn’t look back far enough to see if you used my question, but it’s fine with me if you’d like to.
My 1st inclination is to say Yes…. but considering what is in the bible, possibly not, but then again….. Ah geeze, I’m confused….
Why is this even a debate? I thought the Middle Ages had ended long ago.
yesyesyesyesyes.
the bible does say women shouldnt.
but the bible also supported polygamy.
so where do hermaphrodites fit in God’s big picture? do they get to be ordained since the scriptures seem to only specify that women cannot be ordained, rather than specifying that only men should be? if scriptures are meant to be taken literally, and it is soooo straight forward, why would god leave out some of his creaton?
Heck yes!
Yes but the church isnt likely to do that because they’re sexist and look down on women. Hence why they covered up many religious events.
i’m in the belief that the Bible says no. i don’t think the commands are outdated because the reasons paul cited were not based on culture. but women can be effective servants nevertheless. our deacons and pastors were sometimes exhorted to ask their wives’ opinion on many issues. let the men be the heads while we be the necks, hahaha. btw, dan, did you know that my friend was going off to sea with the navy? you really sounded like you do. funny….
Why not?
I used to think it was so unfair that men seemed to have higher roles than women in the Catholic Church, but after reading “Catholicism For Dummies,” it makes more sense to me now. The priest and the Church are like a married couple. The Church is often referred to as “her.” So it is like the Mother. The priest is the Father. The Church is just as important as the priest, as is even held in higher respect than the priest.
If a priest was female and not male, it would be like a marriage between two Mothers. And you know how the Church is against gay marriage.
This all makes sense to me, yet I would like to see a way for women to be as active as men in the Church.
Well, the whole thing about the Church being female could be something made up by men. I’ve wondered if men have long ago twisted religion into a form of female oppression.
The Bible describes the church as the bride of Christ. That sounds like women are darn important!
Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:36 PM by JAM4the1Lamb
Important how? So they can be brides and give birth? Sorry, but I’d rather be a pastor and have authority than be a bride. That whole stupid “bride” thing sounds like an awful consolation prize.
This post is reason # 457230587 (assuming it’s that low) that I’m no longer associated with the Christian faith. Even if some of the things Jesus had to say were good things, I could NEVER associate myself with a religion that 1) does not give equality to women and men, 2) has a god that is egotistical to demand worship and prayer, and 3) has a god that creates people to have homosexual tendencies, then says “Oh, you’re a sinner.” Makes no damn sense.
DAMMIT it made it all one paragraph! Ugh! The English major in me is upset!
Should have been “egotistical enough”, not just “egotistical”.
This is why I should not comment when I am sick. >.<
SOrry that you feel that way bittersunday. There’s no egotism in the creator wanting his created universe to turn to Him. He is perfection. And He loves you far more than any kind of love you will find in this world. The entire life and story of Jesus shows that.
As for everyone’s comments about “culture” and such, God’s Word is not based on culture and human logic, but His authority (whether we want to recognize it or not). To remove the culture argument, please refer to the first couple chapters of Genesis, where God instructed man with what he should do. Then he brought man a help-mate, with a role she is to fill as well. Neither is better than the other. Both are servants of God. THAT is equality. (Before any rants about creation being an alagory, please read those chapters and decide where Genesis goes from alagory to historical narrative). This issue is about serving God, not personal desire.
i approve
If you mean Pastors, no. Women can prophesy. And the older women can teach the younger women. Paul said that pastors are to be the HUSBAND of one wife, and that women should not teach or have authority over the man.
Yes…I will be an ordained minister in 2 1/2 years.
The Assemblies of God allows women to be certified, licensed or ordained ministers. Two years ago, at General Council, they passed a bylaw that allows each individual church to vote to have women as deacons.
I think people are taking it out of context. those responses that have said that the scriptures are refereing to the structure god has established in the family are the ones getting it right. I believe a woman can be ordained in ministry to teach, IF she is under her husband and in unity with him (so they speak the same words and represent each other properly)
Think about it- the five fold ministry. do we forbid women from evangalism? from teaching? from being phophetic in the spirit? no! why then is it different for pastoral leadership? aren’t they all ministry?
If a single woman is properly under the authority of her father, she should be permitted to participate in leadership. if a married woman aligned peacefully with her husband, there should be no reason for her not to be able to be ordained just because of gender.
That verse about women being quiet is so taken out of context. it also says there that men need to die to their wives as christ died for the church. i dare you to try to say you do that daily.
Our church has a lady pastor. The churches first one. I remember there was a big dispute about it. A lot of the older women were against the decision.
There is nothing wrong with a woman pastor/priest/minister. Lets reverse this. What if men could not be pastors/ministers/priests. That would change the opinon of a lot of people.
All is equal under God so let all have the ability to teach in the same equality.
This is one of your posts where the question is not that interesting but the comments sure are.
like to hear it from Mr. Dan!
it’s UNbiblical for women to be ordained as ministers/priests. it’s obvious, however, that they are to have a role in the church, just not teaching and preaching, esp. over men. i don’t believe it’s anything to take offense over, however, because men and women were not created equal, they were created differently. it’s obvious that men and women have their differences physically and emotionally, and it was for a purpose. so men and women are not equal and should be treated accordingly. neither role is demeaning, just that society has taught as that women’s roles are. meh.
JAM4the1Lamb: so why can’t women be preachers? what is god’s reason for not wanting women to be preachers? please give me an answer so i don’t think that most christians just blindly follow what is written in the bible.
and what’s up with this quote: “”1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
why is it a shame for women to speak in the church? what does this quote mean? is it to be taken literally? cuz that’s what it sounds like some people in this discussion are doing! and if they are, then tell me how this quote doesn’t view women as second-class citizens.
click
The are very good arguments for both sides.
The denomination which my church belongs to does ordain women.
I don’t think any church should be obligated to do so though. They should only do it if they are absolutely certain it is the right thing to do biblically … and not because it is politically correct.
YES!!!!!!!
yes of cos
yes
oops i mean no.
wait i really meant yes.
yes.
history is now uncovering the fact that women were very active in the church and held high positions in the early days… and I think they had the right idea… so yes
if they can do it
I say “yes,” that wome should be ordained, however, that comes as a thee most hypocritical “yes,” I can possibly muster.
I believe they would be excellent Priests or Ministers, would be equally fit for the job, and some may be better than whom we have out there preaching now. Perhaps there would have bee a lot less instances of pedophilia within the Roman Catholic Churches, as well. (Just a hypothesis, not a fact of course.)
It would also benefit the women’s lib movement and all that other equality non-sense that tags along with those ideals and which forced some of us women out of the kitchen and into the work-force, where we never wanted to be.
Yet, there is something which nags at me, which tells me in all honesty – I would be more inclined to attend services where the body of the message taught and preached was coming from a male. To me, some how, his word is more solidified in my reasoning. Perhaps it’s left over residue from early childhood years, being raised as a Roman Catholic, that men somehow are just a tad bit better, a tad bit more correct, a tad bit closer to God and in fact – just a tad bit more Godly.
Some churches do. I grew up ELCA, and we did. I don’t see anything wrong with. I mean, if God calls you to be a minister, how can I argue with that?
No … no …. no!!!!
Sure, why not?
. . . . .my father’s whole family is Catholic. My mother changed from Lutheran to be Catholic when they were married. It has been a long-going arguement between my mother and my aunt Shelly whether or not they should be able to be ordained. I believe. . .they should not. Women have other many many important roles in the church, the Bible even said so, if you want that arguement. This might be a weird arguement for me, what being such a racist and sexist hater, but still. . .
nope
Of course! (silly question, IMO…)
I grew up in a church where anyone could be a pastor. It was never an issue to me.
Whatever they want to be.
This question really isn’t one about rights, it’s about shoulds. Don’t infer what the question doesn’t ask. Do women have the right to be ordained. Of course. “Should they” is a completely different question, one that I’m not going to try to answer in this kind of forum.
Besides, few should want to be leaders anyway. I don’t tend to trust anyone who’s seeking to be a leader. A person seeking leadership is not usually a person wanting to be a servant shepherd.
The Christian church has a long history of exploiting and downplaying women. Why stop now?
By the way, in your previous entry, you should all realize it’s impossible to “fix” gay people, or “get them back on the right straight track with the good ol’ Bible”. You can’t turn gay men straight. You just can’t. It’s not a choice. It’s in their genetics, and no book full of inconsistencies and downright lies can alter that. Of course, this presents the question of “why would God have made homosexuals if he’s omnipotent, then banned it?” Well, God doesn’t exist. But that’s aside from the point.
It lasted long enough for me to leave my husband the first time) and almost a year apart, we got back.
The 2nd time around must of been his, because we are currently separated again obviously….this time for good though.
Sure why not. Certainly in specific cases where it’s a congregation made up largely of women. Also in the church it’s ok. If you have a problem of with a church for that reason, find a different one or politely disagree. It’s not a big enough issue that if you believe one way or another you’ll lose out on heaven or anything.
Emphatically YES
Last I checked – the Anglican church already ordains women, as well as many others (Lutherans, etc.) – I believe it’s the Catholic church that is one of the only ones who hasn’t yet allowed it to happen. I believe women should be allowed to be ordained into ministry in any church.
Such sad questions. Homosexuality, women in the clergy. What is sad, is not the questions in and of themselves, I have definite opinions that I could expound upon at length, but I am not a persuasive speaker, so I leave that task for others until otherwise called.
What is sad, is that of all the things in scripture, we often pick things that are so seldom mentioned in scripture, yet have such a powerfully devisive effect. Is this what we are called to do? Is this what the vast bulk of scripture asks of us? Find things that are devisive and raise them up – and spend our energies there? I think not.
Bible says no, so wouldn’t that be a bit at odds? To qualify the reasons behind it, the Bible isn’t about equal rights. It’s about compassion and our relationship with God. The Bible doesn’t teach that we should treat everyone the same. It teaches that we should treat everyone in a godly way. Whether we want to believe it or not, men and women were not made the same. Nor do we think the same or act the same. In the same way, God has different roles for us. God has a structure for the family and God has a structure for the church.
Posted 2/20/2006 at 10:02 PM by JAM4the1Lamb
That basically sums up what I would say. I wish I could say ‘yes’, but Paul said not to in 1 Corinthians. Then again, in Acts, there were women running around minstering and preaching. Frankly, I think God had a different plan in mind.
God bless,
Shohna
>Unequivocably, yes.
Why not?
My church’s head pastor is a woman and I LOVE her. She gives the best sermons!
I used to be avidly “no!” about it, but as i study more i think that the reason why the Bible says “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man” is more because of the culture of the day, not so much that women can’t be used in ministry. I have seen lots of Spirit-filled women being used by the Lord.
So now I would avidly say “sure, why not?”
Yes, A women should be given the chance to be successful in everyway. besides we women can give birth!
no
No real opinion but my gut instinct says no.
Absolutely yes! I see all these replies and can’t help but think “wake up people!”. You leave the job up to men and you end up with priests taking advantage of young boys. You have men leading the church that slept with their best friend’s wife the night before or beat their own wife before coming to church. Yeah, that’s really a leader I want. Granted, men and women were not created equally. Walk into society and that fact is thrown in your face constantly. Women can do everything a man can and then some, without bitching about it.
The whole ‘Me Jane, You Tarzan’ concept doesn’t cut it with me. This is 2006 people and if women ever expect to truly have ‘equal rights’ in this world then we will have to take it upon ourselves to make sure it happens.
well, we are all one in Christ, meaning we have no gender in our holy spirit, so why not? Joyce Meyer does great things in her ministry and I teach at my church every so often.
i don’t see why not … but i’m not well ‘versed’ in the Bible or the many interpretations, so …
eeek that’s a hard one. I love watching Joyce Meyers yet for some reason I’ve been told that women should not be preachers. It must be somewhere in the bible.
it has been documented that there were many women disciples of Christ… if women are good enough to dispense eucharist, read the word or God and the like then WHY can they not be permitted to become priests? Because then there would be no place/use for Nuns. The Catholic Church particularly is going to have to do something in short form as less and less young men are hearing the call to become Priests!
whAT cHURCH ARE YOU REFERRING TO. mANY OF THEM ALREADY HAVE WOMEN PRIESTS AND MINISTERS INCLUDING MY OWN UMC.
Absolutely. Keep going on that question, Dan – see what the thought is of allowing the clergy to marry as well…
I would say a minister. Even though that still bothers me. I really don’t think women should be in the pulpit. But that was just the way I was raised. Not seeing but 1woman in my life in the pulpit. It sitll weirds me out to see that.
I think the women can help lead, but I think God calls the men to be the leaders over the church. He calls men to be the head of the household. -S.
Yes, of course. It’s rather hypocritical that the church preachs about men and women being equal, yet wont allow women to be ordained.
Yes, they should. =)
No. As a church we value women very much. They play active roles. However, the biblical model for leadership is male. This is not a chauvinistic statement. The pattern is set in Genesis and the two offices of church leadership (pastor, deacons) in the New Testatment, are always in masculine terms. It is not an issue of fairness it is an issue of who is given the responsibility.
Coming from a Catholic backround, now a practicing Charismatic Evangelical….I can honestly say YES.
After all, wasn’t it women who first saw Christ risen? Wasn’t it a woman who first carried the gospel?
No… I think that they should be allowed positions to teach other women
but Biblically they are not to have any other authority.
Good grief…my comment to the last comment.
Regarding the interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12 — did you notice that he starts the sentence with “I do not permit…?” In fact, most of the chapter is a lot of “I statements.” It’s possible that Paul is relating his own thoughts and philosophies here (although he does not mark it specifically as he does in 1 Cor 7). In all fairness, though, that’s an immediate reaction on my part, not one formed through any kind of research, so take it with a grain of salt the size of a cell phone.
Hmmm… The bible seemingly says no… But then again, man (humanity in general) wrote the bible. Toughy…
Yes, the idea of women being silent was not from God. It was from a disciple. I always thought no too, but have since learned better. I was counting how many woman were pointed out as being leaders in the early church at one point. I should try to find where I wrote that down……..
eireann writes: You leave the job up to men and you end up with priests taking advantage of young boys. You have men leading the church that slept with their best friend’s wife the night before or beat their own wife before coming to church.
Erieann, you’re implying that women neither sexually molest children — untrue — nor commit marital infidelity — untrue — nor abuse their husbands — blatantly untrue.
Women can do everything a man can and then some [...]
Exactly my point.
if we are good enough to raise your behind … work … and do everything else we are good enough for that too!
Well, I’m going through ordination, so I hope so! YEAH UMC!
AndyGiessman writes: It is not an issue of fairness it is an issue of who is given the responsibility.
I’m not sure how depriving one gender of the opportunity of responsibility is “not an issue of fairness.”
ya stirred the pot this time….
I have known women ministers that were great.. I dont think God cares as long as the job is getting done.
The church should spend its time on more important issues.
Only to teach other women and children….not to be a pastor of the church. The bible clearly states that the head of the church should be a man.
I think that the larger question here is: shouldn’t the Church be free to decide what it’s going to do without the interference of non-members?
I mean, I don’t pretend to understand what “The Church” means. Let’s assume we’re talking about the Catholic Church. Well, not being catholic, it doesn’t matter all that much to me whether they should ordain females. I think that the catholic church should be free to practice its beliefs (men only priests) without having to feel like it’s being put upon by non-catholics. Now, whether it’s catholics themselves that are trying to pressure the catholic church to ordain females is another matter, and one best left to….well, catholics.
What I’m intrigued by is the vast number of people who care–or seem to care about this issue–without believing as catholics do, or without being members of the catholic church. Does it really make that much difference to us, or is it because we don’t want the catholic church to support beliefs significantly different from their own?
kosovodad
No, they shouldn’t. But they should definitely be able to teach, heck, women weren’t idiots then or now. My mom teaches/disciples tons of people, and she’s really good at it, but that doesn’t mean she should be leading the church.
“if we are good enough to raise your behind … work … and do everything else we are good enough for that too!
Posted 2/21/2006 at 9:46 AM by mafrenzy”
And it’s not that women aren’t good enough to do the job, they’re just not called to. Sure the bible says that women should submit to their husbands as the head of their house in Christ, but don’t forget the next sentence, telling men how to treat their wives. Women submiting to their husbands and men of the church is just them ducking for God to slap the men.
no
Absolutely not!
NO!!!
why not…woman are more organized about things and get right to the point about it if there is a problem or what not…woman are very spiritual also so whats the difference between a man and a woman becoming a priest, president of the US, or anything else…these things need to change anyway…i mean how do they know how we would do if they never put a woman as a leader in anything?
hell no! i mean, they already have the abillity to give birth! shit, that’s just too much power. TOO MUCH, I SAY!
(this statement brought to you by sarcasm…& the letter “p” for “poop.”)
no
YES… The Church should allow women to be ordained. The Church has always changed witht he times. For example Mass is now in English and we can eat meat on Fridays. It is time… But I don’t think it will happen in my life time.
I will probably get in big trouble here,because my denomination is against women being preachers. But,personally I have no problem with it.
priests? NO! the point isnt rights, the point is what does God want. were any of Jesus’ apostles women? no. and if you say that that was just a cultural thing, dont you think that God’s discisions transend human culture? women are important in worship, they just have different roles than men. in Mark 14:3 it talks about a woman comming and poured this ointment on Jesus as a preporation to be buried, because (verse 8) He wouldnt get that honor after He was killed. that the way it works, the woman have a “behind the scenes” job, which is so much more important then the public stuff, because without the preperation, you have nothing.
ministers? yes because there are different forms of ministry other than the priesthood. arent we suposed to care for the widows and orphans? anyone can do that if they just care.
edlives writes: Wasn’t it a woman who first carried the gospel?
wasnt it four men who first wrote those gospels???
Of course they SHOULD… but it will never happen because the Church is run by old outdated men who are probably more out of touch with what God wants for his creation than the common person… The church hasn’t grown because of its respect and good treatment of humanity (of any kind or gender), it has grown through the influence of politics and suppression of people… some more than others… if anything history should have played out differently in that women were to have the higher pedestal…. They are our mothers, our prime nurturers and go far in many things that men lack…
if by Church (capital “c”) you are referring to all Christianity, i would have to say “yes”, since i am a postulant to the Episcopal priesthood and hope to be ordained a priest in 3 years or less. I have many women friends of all sorts of Christian denominations that are ministers, as well as priests, and they are wonderful, caring human beings. Just as it takes both genders to get a full picture of the human species, it takes both genders to effectively minister to all humanity, particularly when there have been instances of abuse by one or the other gender.
oh, and for those who have cited biblical authority, it might be worth noticing that Jesus promoted many things that the religious elders had declared anathama, and that had also “come from God” the same way Paul’s letters had… remember, Prisca was a deacon in the early church and she was female…
God calls us women to do many things. God is not bound by time, so why should we put God in a box and limit what God can/will do? “Behold I do a new thing”
There is good debate on both sides of the issue. Traditionally, the answer is No, and you would be in good company with that view. There were, however, strong women in the early church of Acts that some consider lead disciples (Priscilla and her husband Aquila of Acts 18). Some thing the ordering of names is significant because, back then, the more important person (leader) was named first. Bible.com commentaries would side with you if you view women should have pastoring (“leadership over men”) rolls.
i think they can be deacons, if we understand the meaning of the word in NT times. deakonos means “to wait on tables” deacon is simply an act of servanthood. in every good sense of the word. someone who puts others in front of themselves. to be an ordained minister or priest, there is nothing biblical about that. as far as having women elders, i’m cool with that.
CORRECTION
i think they can be deacons, if we understand the meaning of the word in NT times. deakonos means “to wait on tables” deacon is simply an act of servanthood. in every good sense of the word. someone who puts others in front of themselves. to be an ordained minister or priest, there is nothing biblical about that. as far as having women elders, i’m NOT cool with that
i meant to say that i am cool with female deacons! sorry for the confusion!
Now THIS is one, I completely don’t understand. The best answer I’ve ever gotten as to why women should not be allowed to be ordained in “this is the way we’ve always done it. If we change now, we’ll look bad. We’lkl have to re-examine all our other policies and CLEARLY we don;’t want to do that!!!”
Completely illogical and unreasonable. But then again, as many of us have learned, those can be The Church’s greatest qualities, can’t they?
(by The Church I mean the bull-headed, closed-minded judgemental people who decide they have the power, over God, to run things down here).
Yes. Women could be touched by god just as well as men.
No, women should not be ordained ministers where they can teach over men.
Women leading a women’s Bible study is fine, women teaching sundayschool over kids is fine, but women teaching over men, is not ok.
of course, that’s ridiculous.
yeah why not?
It is important to understand the context of the time of Jesus and even Paul and along that whole century, women were looked upon as property and slavery was justified and obviously that is wrong, this is sad, to objectify and dehumanize a creature that God made, women should have equal rights and have just as much capablity to lead as men do, Christ came to free all and bring jubilee……. I leave you with this, Galations 3:28 ‘There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, MALE nor FEMALE, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I don’t see any place in the bible where it is forbidden. I work for my church and my boss (director of student ministries) is a woman. All of the places that people generally look at to say no are often looked at without looking at cultural context. I didn’t read all the comments, but for example, on the first page someone uses 1 Corinthians out of context.
Absolutely.
i think that being a minister is about getting the word out…does it matter who is doing the speaking?
did mother teresa not spread the word much more than many of male counterparts?
Not as the head priest or head minister, but there are so many areas to serve in the church- teaching, helping, assisting, helping in the nursery, doing sound systems, working with youth, etc….. Christ came not to be served, but to serve… so if we are truly following His example it should be a joy to serve in even the more humble areas.
Well lets see…If Christ rose from the Dead and the first people he told to speak of his miracle resurection were 2 women..and he could have gone anywhere and told anyone but he choose 2 women to be his messenger then yuppers!!!!!!
yes
yes,
why shouldn’t they be allowed? the church that I attend has a few women ministers. Who happen to get a very good serman. There are also male ministers at this church, however sometimes women can direct the attention to a different angle of a situation. Men can do that too, I’m not saying that they can’t. Its just a different outlook.
I dont think there is anything wrong with having a women minister. its just the preset that the minister should be male.
I wonder, if God had been first a woman..would this really be an issue?
Yes. A woman is just as able to spread the word of God as a man.
No.
my church has a woman pastor.
Absolutely.
i don’t see why not.
Definitely yes. I’m in a ministry class right now and we’ve gone over a lot of Scriptures that show women as leaders and ministers. There is no basis in the Old Testament for not having women in leadership positions (Deborah in Judges, Huldah the prophet in 2 Kings & 2 Chronicles, etc.) Many of Paul’s writings have been misinterpreted due to translational biases or selective literalism as well. Jesus placed a high value on women and entrusted them with the message of his resurrection first. He also revealed to Martha that he the Resurrection and the Life in John 11, and that he was the Messiah to the Samaritan woman in John 4. God is also using many women right now as pastors, missionaries, evangelists, chaplains, etc. If God had set an absolute premise that women should not be ministers equal with men then why would He bless their ministries? God enables those He has called, no matter their gender, race, or life situation. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). If anyone has any questions to ask me about this topic please feel free to comment on my site. I don’t want to get in an argument about it but I would love to dialog about it.
Yes. Why shouldn’t they?
Eva.
I find the number of people with firm NO’s amazing. Even Paul couldn’t make his mind on this one. In Acts he has women take important roles in the churches he founds.
It’s amazing how people start with a world view and then read the Bible to support it.
I have mixed feelings on this topic. the bible says that women should be silent in church, but the bible was also written at a different time and different rules applied. such as, back then women got married and had children at 14 years old. these days that would be completely unacceptable, infact its not even legal in some states. just like back then, it said that women shouldn’t be able to speak in church, but now it’s perfectly normal for women to speak, lead worship, and do other things. AND men aren’t offended and don’t think it’s unacceptable. maybe being the leader of the church is too big of a job, but not speaking is pretty harsh.
Jesus preached as much to women as to men. He preached more to Mary Magdeline then he did all of the others; so much so that Paul was jealous. The Risen Christ appeard to Mary Magdeline before he appeared to any others, telling her to go and tell the others. The others disbelieved her until Christ appeared to them. The Catholic Church, while shoving women to the back, nonetheless acknowledge that Christ appearing to Mary Magdeline first makes her the Apostle to the Apostles. Since Paul’s authority as the head of the Catholic Church is based on the fact that he saw Jesus before the other (male) disciples, following this logic then Mary Magdeline is in fact the head of the Church. Paul sent many letters during his ministries to various towns, introducing women as leaders in the church and one as an apostle. So the BIBLE indicates women are leaders of the church – the equivelant of priests or ministers or pastors. Religions have spurned the teaching of the Bible by refusing to allow women to be leaders in the church.
Moses says:
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Pretty good stuff this old testiment I can see why so many people are religious
Yes!!
No. It may be incomprehensible for us to understand but women should not be ordained for ministry/priesthood. It’s Biblical
In reply to all these comments, women are used in same and sometimes greater ways, but should not be ordained to preach.
this is a toughy ain’t it? our roles as a woman and a man are different. not being able to be ordained doesn’t mean women can’t take these positions. not being able to be in these postions doesn’t mean that women aren’t worth as much as a guy, simply, we were made for different roles. no no, not being able to take these roles doesn’t mean women can’t lead in fact, women should lead, but just in different ways.
no. i dont think so at all because God put man incharge of the household. think about it, your a dude the head of the house and your whife is in charge of the church
andrew
I don’t think it is right. I am all for women’s rights, but I believe it says in the Bible that men should be the pastors/priets, therefore I have no problem with that rule.
[ariana]
yes!
OF COURSE NOT. god doesn’t respect women. they’re evil because eve was decieved by the serpent so they should not be ordained.
gosh people. equality? man WAS created before woman!
yes
Yes they can and should be able to be either!
nope, if church isnt supposed to interfer with state, state cant interfer with church. It’s the states right to say women are equal to men, and it’s the churches right to honor its traditions.
Absolutely. Women are exactly the same as men, except we look different and care more about our butts. But seriously — I believe that the Catholic denomination specifically is too old-fashioned; things aren’t the same nowadays as they were in the time when the Bible was written. Women are held higher; we no longer have to follow behind our husbands, sweep the kitchen all day and have our hands cut off if we paint our fingernails. So yes, women should definitely be allowed to be priests.
Yes why not – women are just as capable of everything as men.
I think women should be allowed to fulfill their full potential in God. If that means them being a leader, then why not?
Our pastor, Alan Hewitt did a series on gender rights. Women and men are not the same, they have different roles, but still, women should be allowed to fufill their potential, along with men.
I showed up way too late on this one so no one will actually read this, but the whole point of the gospels is that Jesus was raised from the dead. That was what made him more than just a mere man, he was the son of God. Now, this was important news and the person God chose to pass this message on, for the very first time, was Mary. The first God-ordained gospel preacher was a woman. She was told by the angel to give this message to the 11 remaining disciples. If a woman was good enough for God, shouldn’t a woman be good enough for man?
I See no problem with Female ministers but the cant be lesbian
I recommend that the people saying no read the book titled “Beyond the Curse” by Aida Besancon Spencer or “Why Not Women?” by Loren Cunningham and David Joel Hamilton. Before you answer with a resounding no, you deserve to know the context of these Scriptures you are quoting. Paul himself appointed women as leaders in the early church. Jesus also elevated women in his ministry. Read deeper and research. You’ll be surprised at what you find!
I also want to remind those of you who say that the OT has no evidence for women to read about Deborah, Ruth, Esther, Rahab and the other women in the Old Testament who God used in mighty ways. Also, to refresh your memory: Joel 2:28-29 says “And afterward, (after the Messiah comes…), I will pour out my Spirit on ALL PEOPLE. Your sons AND daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.” This was fulfilled at Pentecost. This is still being fulfilled today.
And if you don’t think women can do a good job then I suggest you look at the churches that they do amazing things in. Such as The Salvation Army and other Wesleyan traditions permitting women clergy.
Those are my thoughts…
I’m seeing alot posts in this where men say no they shouldn’t but they dont’ even provide a valid reason… Blind thought….
Dont know why this is a tough one for people, but of course. My aunt is a pastor, and my own church has a woman pastor.
I can’t believe women would want to be part of an organization that won’t allow them full partnership. I think they should all just get out while the gettins good.
I’ve been reading through the comments and am amazed at both the quantity and the intensity. What I kind of wonder about is why there has to be so many rules? Why is there so much conflict in Christanity? It seems it should be pretty simple (made in god’s image, aspire to live a holy life), but man can’t leave anything alone. Has to slant everything through the lenses of self-hood. Frist – note that when I said “man can’t leave anything alone” I didn’t mean just the male gender; I meant the human race. Hmm; is it possible that the word ‘man’ in the bible means the same thing? After all, in Genesis – the very first chapter of the very first book (Gen 1:27) “So god created man in his own image, in the image of god created he hi: male and female created he them.” (is the ‘man’ in this sentence generic for humanity? would seem so as it also states both were made in god’s image) So if male & female are created in god’s image, then is 1/2 of god to submit to the other 1/2 of god? Both are created in god’s image, but both are not good enough? God must be schizophrenic.
Kinda hard for a woman to be the husband of one wife as Paul comands, isn’t it?
I think the church should allow women to be ordained as ministers. However, I don’t agree with women being the pastor of the church. It’s a bit complicated if you don’t understand how the body of the church works, or how God himself constructed the church body. But yes, women should be ordained, but do you really have to be ordained to even be a minister in Gods eyes?