August 23, 2006
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Rabies and Children
A case has been developing in Florida concerning a parent and her children. Bats were in the low income housing unit that they lived in. The mother of the children has insisted that her children were not bitten by the bats. But DCF has removed her children from her home to force them to get the rabies shots. The mother was concerned that one of her children got really sick a few years back because of shots.
Should the government be able to force parents to give their children rabies shots?
Comments (107)
yes
Yes. Have you seen the way some of them run around? Slobbering on everything? I’m surprised no one’s been bitten yet!
What’s one more shot, right?
Well I think it has to be with the parent’s consent, above everything. Unless the parents are unfit to make that decision.
Yay fourth.
gah, like im number four.
parents should WANT to give their children rabies shots if there is even the slightest risk
I have a client whose daughter was immunized, and immediately after, became autistic. Sad. NO!
ok like sixth….but thats still pretty good. anywho, i am usually not for the goverment messing with our lives a lot, but i think that in SOME(not all!) cases forcing children to get shots would probably be best.
Only if there is such a definite risk/the children actually have been bitten. Child welfare laws and stuff like that…
only if the child’s at risk and the parents are nfit to make the decision for what ever reason. other than that, the government should back off.
yes
That’s a real touchy subject Dan! Well, considering that I don’t trust the government oe fucking bit. All the documented cases of people being given shots to test shit out and being unsuspecting lab rats make me say no. They have their hand in enough of our shit.
Should the government be able to say “all parents must get ________ vaccine for their children?”
No, definately not.
Should the government be able to say to an individual who’s children are at immediate, imminent risk of serious bodily injury or death, “you must seek appropriate treatment for your child or we will do it for you?”
Yes, of course.
As long as consideration is taken to the fact that some diseases/conditions have more than one appropriate treatment.
There has to be a balance between parent’s rights, and children’s protection.
In this particular case, it sounds like removing the children from an immediately unsafe situation and a parent who was willfully neglecting their medical care was justified.
Well if there’s reason (like BATS IN THE HOUSE), then of course! Because if not, then those same stupid parents will be suing the government, or SOMEONE, when their kid gets rabies. Relax, it’s a freaking shot, they’ll live. There are always rare cases where kids get sick or “turn autistic” from immunizations (as there are rare cases with ANY medical solution), but that’s not a reason to not do them at all. A .00001% chance of autism is much better than the higher chance of getting whatever you’re being immunized against.
No! but the government should force parents to use condoms! ;-P
the govt forces parents to get their kids other kinds of shots.. you cant start school if you dont have certian vaccinations.. unless there’s another medical reason for the kids not to get this shot then yes if the need arises…..
It’s a contagious and fatal diseases, yes. It might be a different story if not for it being contagious.
Hmm.. that’s a good question. I’m not sure what my opinion on this one is… I would say weigh the pros and cons and then whichever seemed to be in the best interest of the children. And in the picture I’m the one on the left, in the blue.
There were some interesting thoughts on this topic HERE a few weeks ago
I think that it doesn’t matter what I think…the government forces us to do a lot of things against our will… For instance, I don’t like to give 1/4 of my paycheck to Uncle Sam every week, and yet I have to. The government will do whatever it wants to….so I just try to hold no opinion. Damn the MAN! …oh wait that was an opinion wasn’t it? Oh well….
<3Rachel
Only if the parent is deemed mentally unstable.
I don’t think a responsible parent would refuse to give their child a rabies shot.
If the kids had rabies. Sure.
What concerns me about this case is how one of her children became ill from a shot before. If none of her children had become ill from shots in the past, I’d say that yes, the goverment should be able to force her to vaccinate her children. However, in this case, I’d say the government should have to consult medical specialists before innoculating all the children.
-Guru on the Hill
I have no idea why…but I feel they should.
Depends, are the parrent fit to make a decision? Are the parrents going to be charged for the shot? Do the kids actually want to get the shot? In my opinion, if the kids had been bitten by something that may or may not have rabies then they should get shots.
Sure, why not. Some parents aren’t exactly great at judging how to raise and take care of their children.
no. I think they should spend their time investigating the real problem! give them an exterminator…not a doctor bill!!!
In this case… no. They weren’t bitten. If they had been bitten then that changes things. If they were bitten they should be required to be treated for it. Rabies is contagious and lethal.
I think I’m starting to become a little more liberal. Crazy. No I don’t think the government should force that. Anything that is put into our bodies should be our choice.
I guess yeah, rabies is a terrible thing. It’s better to be safe than sorry.
I heard of a story where a woman had a bat fly at her and it ripped her skirt. She sewed up the skirt and at the end of her stitching, she bit the thread to disconnect it from her sewing. Because she bit the string….she had to have rabies shots….old story since she had to have the series the old fashioned hard way. If you can get rabies as easy as that, then definitely the children need to get the rabies shot. Not by government mandate or by DCF removing her children…but by court order like it is done normally when a parent is denying medical treatment that is needed for the child to live. It sounds like DCF is circumventing the existing laws that have been set up to deal with such cases.
I would say yes, in this case, considering the family lives in an area with the possibility of contracting rabies every day.
I don’t believe the government should be allowed to force children to do anything against their parents’ consent unless it can be proven in a court of law that the parent is unfit to make that decision, which raises bigger issues.
i think since rabies actually can take out someones nurological stuff that yes. I hope im thinking of the right disease now…. i am pretty sure it attacks the nervous center.
Personally, yes – I think i’d be more scared for them not having any kind of immunizations - but I know there are many parents who don’t want to have their kids immunized for anything. I grew up in a small town of about 400 people, but it was also an Amish community – none of them ever got immunizations (mainly because they were scared of it) – but sadly many Amish die before they even reach age 18 due to childhood illnesses that could have been prevented. Pollio was a big issue with Amish not too long ago and the government wanted all Amish to have the shot, but a majority of them refused – so really I don’t see why someone would have their kids taken away from not getting them immunized when the Amish are allowed to refuse it as well and still keep their kids. Same with when a child get’s sick, a parent could get their child taken away if not getting them proper medical attention when they’re sick or if they get hurt, etc.. - but it doesn’t work that way with the Amish, almost all Amish children die in their homes and not in a hospital and there aren’t any child protective serves knocking on their doors. It just doesn’t seem right that because of a religious belief they are “exempt” from what the rest of us may have to face. And while some might think, well they’re just Amish… well they’re people too, just like the rest of us. Even if they only go to school till 8th grade they still go to school with us, they still work, they still blend in and talk and get together with the rest of the community – just because they live their lives differently doesn’t mean they’re “aliens” or should be forgotten. But really all I’m saying here is the government doesn’t treat all parents equally – The Amish don’t have to worry about going through things like this (and if they do it’s due to a very, very rare case), so it’s unfortunate that the rest of us have to worry about loosing a child to the government due to a decision that we feel strongly about.
No!! But I do think that the children with the mom should be removed from the house but unless a child has been bitten NO shots should be doled out. The cure is in this case, worse than the disease concidering there is no problem as of yet. This is especially true b/c one of the children has already had reactions to shots. The home should be exterminated, they need to teach the mom what she needs to do, then life needs to go on as usual.
Lady
You know, what is the point of having children if the government is going to raise them. This countries government is out of control.
no, the freakin fascists
what?!
Okay, first of all, if there are bats in your house, why don’t you do something about it? Way to be a parent.
Second, yes, the government should make children get shots, and it’s the doctor’s responsibility to make sure it’s safe for the child, not the parent. The parent more likely than not doesn’t know jackshit about medicine. there are a lot of reasons the child could’ve gotten sick. if I was a parent, I would have no idea why, but I’d probably blame something that happened really recently. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
Someone said the government shouldn’t be able to say ”all parents must get ________ vaccine for their children.” But as someone else pointed out, they already do. For school, international trips, and other stuff. This is to keep children safe and healthy. The government’s job is to look after all it’s citizens, and part of that is keeping them healthy. If the parent won’t do that, then government has the responsibility to step in.
Nope. As with all things that have possible risks associated with them, vaccinations are the parents’ choice. Period.
I can’t believe there are actually people here saying things like “the government is raising our children” and whatnot. COME ON. If it makes your children AND other people safer, why NOT get rabies shots? As has been said, she’s obviously not a great parent if there are bats flying around the house. It’s not like there aren’t other shots children have to get by law, either – it’s not exactly a new concept.
No, they should recommend it though.
no
No.
Unfortunately there are really crappy parents out there that make me cringe to even say this, but the government should not be able to force a parent or a child to make a decision when it is not consensual. The government already has too much power & chooses to invade personal freedom more often than we are aware. Sadly though, some children do not have a fighting chance without the government stepping in, because an alarming percentage of parents are not capable of making decisions in the child’s best interest for whatever selfish reasons exist. However, eventually & inevitably, governmental control will seize this opportunity and shield itself with this same defense to overstep its borders again & again.
Is there much to back up the mom’s claim that this shot had previously made her kid really sick? Some children do have strong sensitivities to certain medicines, and if the kid turns out to be allergic and has already had 1 bad reaction then a second shot of the same thing could prove very dangerous.
Is the government doing anything to actually get the bats OUT of the housing facility, or in other ways prevent this sort of situation from happening again?
What’s the likelihood that the kid did get bitten, and how would one be able to tell? Would there be scars?
Is anyone looking at the bats and testing them to see if they have rabies? If none of the bats have rabies, then there’s no need for the shot.
I think there’s a few things that need to be considered here.
Why does bats in the house automatically mean she’s a bad parent? Have any of you ever needed to get rid of bats? How do you know how easy or hard it is? A coworker of mine has been battling rats in her house for MONTHS and tried everything she can think of and hasn’t been able to get rid of them. It doesn’t mean she’s stupid or a bad parent.
This mother’s living in low income housing, which already tells you she probably doesn’t have much money to go call an exterminator. Who overlooks this housing facility, and why haven’t they stepped in to get rid of the bats?
NO
The government should not force parents to vaccinate their children unless the parents have already been deemed unfit or the child had already been bitten by a bat. Why not force the landlord to get rid of the bats instead? The fact that one of the children was ill after a vaccination should be looked into. Was the child really sick? Was the sickness consistent with that cause by a reaction to a shot? I am considered mildly allergic to certain vaccinations, yet all that happens is my arm will swell up for several days. My doctor said I could have my shots anyway.
Personally, I think that shots for relatively minor illnesses such as chicken pox and measles weaken the immune system. Children should develop a strong immune system on their own by allowing the body to fight off whatever germs they happen to be exposed to, instead of allowing a vaccination to do it for them. For major illnesses, such as polio, I think the benefits of the shot outweigh the concerns.
“If people let government decide [...] what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.”
~ Thomas Jefferson
In that situation yes. And then they should be forced to monitor the health of the children after recieving the shots, and supply them with free medical aid should they get ill from it.
Minor illnesses, yes. But is rabies a “minor illness”? I personally don’t know much about rabies, but it always seemed to me like a bigger deal than chicken pox.
“I can’t believe there are actually people here saying things like “the government is raising our children” and whatnot. COME ON.”
Well, actually, it’s true – especially if you’re a military family like us, lol. We don’t have a choice, and to remind us of that everytime we’re in the clinic they have signs everywhere of what vaccine and when our children have to have them. And if you’re stationed over-seas like Germany the list gets even longer. As I said in my last post though I think I would be more scared if my kids didn’t have the vaccines, but at the same time – I don’t think a parent should be forced to have their kids vaccinated if they don’t want to – in the end it will be on the parent if something did happen to their child – but either way if they did feel that strongly about it, they would be able to accept it – at least it would have been their choice. And you know you don’t have to have every vaccine to go to school. I went to school with many kids who weren’t vaccinated.. ever.. like my examples in my last post – the Amish that I went to school with, they had never had a shot of anything in their life. And to travel in certain countries, yes you might have to have some shots, when a friend of mine went to Argentina to be a foreign exchange student she had to, but when I traveled all-over Europe I wasn’t required to have any shots. Even though I don’t have a choice of getting my children vaccinated, I still would – however, there are some things I don’t agree with – like how all soldiers have to get the same vaccine – even though it is rare, some have died from them – and look at what happened during the Golf War… and these damn anthrax shots – I never wanted my husband to get that one, but of course we didn’t have a choice, and of course the government doesn’t care or even know if it might turn out to be another “golf war syndrome” problem…. so from this stand-point I can understand why some parents don’t want their kids shot-up with some vaccine.
I think its best for the child.
Gulf War.
And I see your point, but for non-military families I wouldn’t ever say that the government is raising the children.
And every school I’ve ever been to has REQUIRED the major vaccines, so I think that’s the normal thing. Again, it just depends upon if rabies is a major thing, or just minor, like chicken pox. I don’t have enough authority or knowledge to know whether or not rabies is a huge deal. Plus, I said in some post above, that I don’t think it should be necessarily required for everyone – just for people who in certain situations. Like living with bats.
Yes.
Dan: Here is something my mother & I were discussing the other day…
If a child chooses to go to a Vocational School or Tech School becuase their school district doesn’t offer the classes in the topics they wish… the school district must pay for them to go. If a kid FAILS and enrolls in a Tech School, the school district also must pay the child’s tution.
However, if a child wants to go to a Jewish school, or a Christian school or any religous education, the parents are fully responsible for the tution while still being required to pay school taxes. What do you think?
The government? No… If the lady wants her kids to die a painful death from rabies, that’s her own issue.
I would want to make sure that my child wasn’t sick, however I hate DCS because they don’t really help a lot if situatuons (used to be a foster parent), soI say no. Why were there bats in the house, and did DCS help them with that? Did anyone? Probably not.
the government shouldn’t make them, it’s the parents choice.
-katlin-
low income housing as in a housing project? then it’s the government’s job to get rid of the bats and prevent this whole probem in the first place. No bats, no rabies, no kids getting shots.
Hell to the No
Yes, I think they should, IF the kid actually has it.
For those who don’t know rabies can easily be halted shortly after being bitten by a simple shot.
When full blown rabies developes it is the deadliest disease known to man. There is no cure and no treatment. So, when the symptoms start showing it will be way to late. In this the mother is being extremly stupid and gambling with her kids lives because she’s worried about a little shot.
Pity they don’t have a cure for stupidity. Pity they allow stupid people to have children.
And even if she doesn’t care the least bit about their lives, government has good reason for not wanting it to spread.
Somebody should find her and give her a bitch slap. Idiots.
Bats rarely carry rabies.
I don’t think the government should force a parent to immunize their children, unless the child is clearly in danger and the parent is doing nothing about it.
No. If anything, the government should pay to have the bats removed!
Able to? No. Do so anyway? Why not?
Um….hm…I don’t think the goverment should be able to force anyone to do anything, but if they must force anything it would be something like that.
No, that’s a freaky idea.
Children? Of course!
no
yep
Yes! the rabies shots depend if your life can helped be saved.
That’s a hard one. Because on one hand, we don’t know if there have been other instances of neglect by the mother. But on the other hand, the government has no business in how I raise my children and they will be politely told to butt out. At this point…no, they don’t. Not until they come up with hard evidence of neglect or abuse on the Mother’s part.
Rabies, if not fatal, causes severe neurological damage, usually worse than anything an immunization can do, even autism. Rabies shots after the fact are the only way to prevent the disease. And yes, bats can and do bite (they actually make a small tear in the skin that is not even always noticed) while people are sleeping. One of those children may have been infected and the mom wouldn’t even notice, if it was a small scrape such as kids get everyday, anyway.
I have had occasional bats in my house. Once we discovered they were coming in down the chimney and were small enough to get through the antique fireplace grate, we had the chimney capped. But it’s not always that easy, or cheap. That alone cost $300, which a low income family would not have. I woke up to one flying around my bedroom in the middle of the night. Once I closed all the kids’ doors and chased it downstairs, it disappeared for three days. They are not that easy to catch and eliminate. If this is government housing, they should move those families out and do something about it.
OMG!!!! They took the children to get rabbies shots but did NOTHING to clean up the housing???????????????????????
The government should never be allowed to force a shot or any medication on a child against a parent’s wishes. However, I’ve heard it is possible for a bat to bite you in your sleep and for you not to feel it.
yes i think its in the child’s well being
Yep
Yeah. But if the kid had a bad response to shots on a previous occasion, that should be looked into first.
Florida, huh? I think w/ DYFS tries to force their way in the door, she should just shoot them…
Absolutely not! There are many people who’s religious beliefs are against vaccinations.
what, did they have rabies shots before? if not, then its not the same vaccince that made them sick. and rabies is life threatening.
so yes. make them have the shots. its for public safety as well has her kids safety.
Well removing them from the home and requiring them to get the shots are two different things. A judge will look at the evidence and decide. I have no doubt that there must be some doctor who advised that they be immunized.
No way, the government already interferes too much!
If there’s a good reason, like the one presented, then aboslutely. The odds of something terrible happening from shots are rather miniscule, it’s worth it in the long run.
No. Not if one of the kids has a risk of getting really sick or dying from it. And you don’t quite know if there’s something odd in the injection, or if the rabies shots now could be killing us in some way and we only find out later. Kind of like all those people who used ephedra to lose weight.
And you really don’t ever know if the gov. is putting something extra in your bloodstream. They told us milk was good for us and it can cause 4 types of cancer, diabetes, and leukemia.
no, but parents should know enoguh to get their kids that shot, especially if they are in danger of it, for example if there are bats living in your house…
Wait–so the government is just deciding the cheap way out and letting them live with the bats? Even if they do get rabies shots, they’ll still have to live with…well…bats.
Regular shots are horrible enough, but from what I hear, rabies shots are really nightmares. I think people should only get rabies shots if there is a visible bite.
The government should use force to infect children with rabies.
It is abuse in a way if she doesn’t take care of it. Look into her concerns if they are valid work with her. If they aren’t then have the kids picked up by the government and shoot them.
Sorry give them shots.
Yes. It keeps them healthy and keeps them from infecting others. The gov should try oral vaccination for the kid that got sick from shots.
wow… this is a tough one… I don’t have an opinion yet… hmmmmm still don’t… more thinking needed
I don’t think that the government should be “forcing” anyone to do anything. They should atleast check the children’s bodies first for signs of bites before going on with the shots.
-Kristin
When it comes to protecting an individual–who resides in said country–who cannot protect him/herself, the government not only has the right but a moral obligation to protect them.
if they not have been bitten, and they do not test positive for rabies, then HELL NO!
If you get rabies, there are no signs until you die. Get the shot.
Ok, I’ll assume they cannot test whether the kids have rabies or not, and they just want to give the shots as a precaution regardless.
Lets assume they do have rabies, will the government lock them up and shoot them like Old Yeller if they dont get the shot, and later are snapping and bitting at people? (I dont know that people actually do this with rabies, but for the sake of argument)
What kind of Slum Lord was running this place, lock them up and shoot them like Old Yeller.
And yeah, does this mother care that her kids could be developing rabies?
I think this case has a lot of elements to it that make it hard to judge up front, but I think someone, and only one, is looking out for the kids actually wellbeing, the state, or the mother? Dont really know, but hope the kids can grow up healthy one day.
No. I agree that the children should probably get the shots, but they should not be forced that way.
Yesterday on the news, I saw a report where the DCF took children away from a couple for having a dirty house, they had no water.
The only thing they were guilty of as far as I could tell, was being poor.
Our government takes things too far. Don`t they have more pressing issues to attend to?
I hope all the dumbass children get some rabies and go crazy. mwahahhahaa
The closest answer to my opinion is “Well I think it has to be with the parent’s consent, above everything. Unless the parents are unfit to make that decision.”
Parents and not the government should be considered to be the highest authority over THEIR children. I know we are all owned by the government, but I like to entertain the notion that we are free, and having children means they belong to us/the parents. Without authority there can be no responsibility.
no….for the rabies shot you have to get like 12 different needles poked into your skin….OUCH
No. I think if the parents choose not to get shots for their kids and the kids DO get rabies because the parents are stupid, that’s their fucking problem. And besides, why do you care if someone else’s kid dies because the parents were stupid enough to let them die? If I found out about someone who did that and then I met them, I would laugh in their face and call them a dumbass.
-KrIsTiN-
Yes, duh.
no!