January 29, 2007
-
12-year old Sex Change
A 12 year old, who is now 14, became the youngest sex-change patient ever.
Her name is Kim. She used to be Tim. She has not had the gender-transforming surgery because she can’t until she is 18. But she is receiving the hormone injections which will stop her male development.
The doctor said, ‘There is no doubt of the determined wish, which was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man.” Here is the link: Link
Is a 12-year old mature enough to make a decision concerning a sex change?
Comments (227)
Absolutely not.
What is wrong with her parents?
I certainly don’t think so. Wow.
I just read the article – it seems she had a psychological abnormality. There was no better way to address this than to have the kid undergo a drastic sex change operation?
Depends if it’s one of those rare cases where a human is born with male genitalia and female hormones. He/she might think like a girl, act like a girl, and have hormonal instincts like a girl and look on the outside like a guy. So if it can be presented that those are uncontroversial facts, then the younger the trans-gender surgery is done the better.
no. idiot parents… talk about kids being spoiled these days…
No, I don’t think so. Some might be mature enough, but you never know if they’re going to change their mind! Even most 18-year-olds lack the maturity to make that kind of life-altering decision (and being a former 18 year old myself, I guess I should know!).
No way.
I honestly dont know the answer to this one. While I support the right to choose what you want to be in life and bi-gendered rights, I am conflicted by her age. Alot of 5 year olds have female tendencies, but that’s not enough for me to think they needed a sex change.
I am conflicted.
I think so.
No, because you don’t really know what you want out of life until your at least 18 or 20…so how could some 12 year old make that decision? If the kid had both boy and girl hookups then I could see how it is important to choose one way or another…but just for the sake of change, then it’s ridiculous.
Freaks!
None of us are in the position to speak for every 12 year old. I bet MOST 12 year olds aren’t mature enough, but I don’t think we can generalize.
I’m often offended by the age-related arrogance I’ve seen people spew. “I’m 60 so I have wisdom” — that’s not how maturity and growth work. There’s a big difference between chronological age and mental age.
I liked what oneangelwaiting wrote because she used qualifiers. My experience with 18 year olds has been a lot different (I’m 20 now), but I still appreicated the carefulness of what she wrote.
Actually, she DIDN’T switch schools… Here’s what the article says: “But she has not been placed at a different school in case of taunting from children who knew her as him in days gone by because, according to her parents, ‘her friends fully accept her as she is’.”
– Pat
At this point, she’s been examined and poked and prodded enough. If the experts say she’s mature enough to make that decision, then she is. Kudos to the parents for the bravery in following through with this. Kudos to Kim for being true to herself.
yeah. i think its good for her. at least the parents werent intolerant haters.
I doubt that this story is true Dan. But in answer to the question posed…no. 12 year olds aren’t old enough to make that kind of a decision. At 12 years old I wanted to be a porn star….oh wait, that’s a bad example…I still want to be a porn star.
I think so, some children can identify the incongruenec between their physical gender and their “mental” gender at a young age
i don’t think so at all. that is such a sad, sad story. what’s up with those parents?
Anybody who is contemplating a sex change isn’t old enough to get one.
If she is a (relatively) physiologically normal child, then no, she is too young to be making such a permanent decision.
If she is a child with one of many disorders that legitimately mess with gender–Turner’s Syndrome, hermaphroditic biology, ect.–then yes, she should be able to choose the gender that she feels she relates better to.
Question: How much of gender is socially learned, and how much is genetics?
at 12 years old? I don’t think so! They haven’t even really hit puberty yet. Wow…I can’t believe it….12…
I’ve seen some interesting shows on Discovery and the like about trans-gender people, most say they KNOW at an early age that they are attracted to the opposite sex even tho they aren’t at a sexually active age (hopefully) … surprisingly I’m rather alright with decision.
I don’t know…
What sort of 12 year old male would want to become female??
I’m guessing.. she did not feel “right” as a boy.
Well i don’t know, you’d have to ask her.
But i think, her parents did the right thing.
I mean, she hasn’t at the whole procedure done right?
Not until 18.
She has plenty of time to think more on this.
Her parents probably thought a lot about this.
They think is the right thing.
And they support her.
They’re wonderful parents.
LeaderOfTheKnightsWhoSayNI wrote:
>> Anybody who is contemplating a sex change isn’t old enough to get one. <<
I’m not sure I follow, unless you’re placing an emphasis on the word “contemplating”. But according to the American Heritage Dictionary, to contemplate means to “consider carefully and at length; meditate on or ponder: contemplated the problem from all sides.” So if anything, the emphasis on “contemplating” would mean that Kim/Tim put great thought into it. So again, I don’t follow what you’re trying to say. Lots of people in their 20s and 30s likewise contemplate getting a sex change. Is a 30 year old also too young?
– Pat
*hasn’t had the whole procedure done right?
The treatments require parental consent so a 12 year old didn’t decide, her parents did and that’s their right… they certainly know their child better than anyone weighing in on Xanga.
At 12? No, there is no way that should be allowed.
firewillconsume wrote:
>> at 12 years old? I don’t think so! They haven’t even really hit puberty yet. Wow…I can’t believe it….12…<<
Actually, some girls hit puberty at 8 or 9. I’m a guy and I began it at 9.
– Pat
If she is happy….that is all that matters.
Twelve year olds are in no position to be making these types of decisions. Their bodies are in upheaval to begin with becuase of puberty, so the desision for changing their gender should not be an option to anyone so young.
why does xanga keep lumping my sentences together?
They’re supposed to be spaced apart
What’s so wrong about getting a sex change anyways?
Does gender make you who you are?
ah there we go haha
Can we all say child abuse?
i don’t consider it much of a ‘decision.’ several of my close friends have made this ‘decision’ and are SIGNIFICANTLY happier in their own skin because of it.
I dont think so…if he was supposed to be a girl then he would have had girl parts…I think the only way this would be ok is if he was born with both parts like some people have been…but just because he wants to be a girl?? weird.
Not hardly..
No that I read the whole article, I support it. It seems like she has always been inclined on being a girl from birth and I do agree that growing up to be a man in the mental state that she is in would ruin her mentally. I applaud the parents for supporting her so much and allowing her to continue on with this. It sounds like she will grow up to be a happy, and well adjusted child.
I’m kind of torn to be honest…
NO. Absolutely not…
What a bunch of morons on this site today. I child is sexualy confused, thats not that uncommon, and the parents cater to it encoraging a he to be a she. You all think thats great. The kid is a mess and always will be, a person’s sex can not be changed. But their body can be mutilated. 12 is much to young to be mutilating yourself, the damage can not be undone and the results will never really be a girl.
I’ve noticed that people making asbsolute statements (like leonidas’ “NO. absolutely not…”) haven’t really given a rationale to back their claims up. How can you generalize? Just because YOU weren’t mature at 12 doesn’t mean every other 12 year old is the same. Maybe most, but not all.
What the fuck. Of course. A twelve year old might not know how to do trigonometry, but they’re definitely capable of telling whether or not they should have a penis.
Could be.
What’s with the general acceptance of transsexuality?
ah paige, as usual, your wisdom shines through with the shield of name calling and false statements. Good to have you back.
What’s with the general acceptance of transsexuality?
Posted 1/29/2007 1:57 PM by Imworkingsoshutthehellup <<
well, why shouldn’t it have general acceptance?
Paige and others, I recommend reading Kessler and McKenna’s “Gender: An Ethnomethodological Approach”. It’s pretty old (1978) but a good *starting* place.
My first reaction was NO!
But then again… this doesn’t sound like one of the typical flash-decisions teens make and later regret, like getting a tattoo. If someone was known their entire lives that they were not meant to be their particular sex, then this is probably the right thing to do.
No way.
No. At twelve you’re not attracted to girls and vice versa. I don’t think that you can really make any decision on your sexuality until at least 20. As for me, I’m 15. I’m not bi, i’m not a lesbian, and I’m not hetero. I’m just me.
Cheers,
m
In the mental atmosphere here in the US, I would say that it is a hard thing to comprehend…but we have many different standards, and come on, let’s face it, so many people here PRETEND to have morals, yet the US is one of the most immoral places on earth, where people rarely seem to have a conscious (where else do you see stories of a trucker,thinking a family driving too slow, whips out a pistol and shoots all 3 family members)….
But in all honesty, those parents obviously know and listen to their child. Who are we to judge? and those of you that have….I am sure you lead, perfect, clean, moral, lives with absolutely no imperfections or 100% of your decisions have been pure, clean and right….Yes, I realize this was a 12 year old child at the time, but even 2 years have passed, and it sounds like experts agree, the child is very happy with the decision and can make the permenant decision of it all on her own at 18….it sounds like the parents were thinking of the best well being for their child and what will not cause psychological scars….it obviously wasn’t for benefit of the parents…
At first I said no, but reading the article, it makes sense. The article says she’s been like this all of her life, since she was two. It says she’s happy and balanced and her friends accept her..so…why not?
Wow, no. The only time this should be considered at such a young age is for a hermaphradite whose parents are waiting until puberty before seeing whether male or female traits will be more promenent. Then hormones might be a logical help to the situation. Otherwise, girls should stay girls and boys should stay boys.
I think the people who are saying things like ‘you don’t know what you want until youre 18-20′ don’t really remember being 12 years old. I’m pretty sure a 5 year old could tell whether or not they felt more like a boy or a girl, despite their lack of reasoning skills and maturity level.
Around 12 is when puberty strikes, which gives the body the physical maturity I think that is necessary to really be sure of the sex. I think such a drastic decision before puberty would be much more questionable.
I think the story would be more sad if she was not able to go through the change at all. How horrible to live life feeling as though you are trapped in the wrong body. The sooner it is corrected the better.
I’m not saying that their not a puberty though. Just that they’re kind of too young to be sexually concious.
i definitely don’t think she’s old enough to choose…
it’s one of those things that if you regret it, you’re screwed. i don’t know how much knowledge you have at 12 to decide on something so life changing- i know i def was not mature enough at 12 to even entertain something lots smaller.
I say kudos to her parents and friends for allowing her to be who she really is. I also wanted to say no at first, but when I read the article and several experts agreed that this was a clear cut case, I have no issue with it. She is happy, her parents and friends, are happy and ok with it, so I see no reason not to let this continue.
In times not that far past, “teenagers” did not exist. Children became adults at thirteen. Nowdays most twelve year olds are definately not one year away from becoming adults in terms of maturity… so no to your question… but I wonder if our social attitudes were different would “kids” be more mature?
wow.. quite alarming.. I really don’t think that the kid should do it because if the media didn’t say it was okay, he probably wouldn’t even have the idea to do it. However, the media has already mentally confused the child enough that the sex change is what he positively wants. Let him do it.. (it’s too late)
Did some people not read the article before commenting???
only if the 12 yr old was a female, then it would be understandable.
I don’t think so.. I don’t know the full story but that’s a big decision for a child that age.
In the mental atmosphere here in the US, I would say that it is a hard thing to comprehend…but we have many different standards, and come on, let’s face it, so many people here PRETEND to have morals, yet the US is one of the most immoral places on earth, where people rarely seem to have a conscious (where else do you see stories of a trucker,thinking a family driving too slow, whips out a pistol and shoots all 3 family members)….
In America, they take a privalege (this science), and make it a right. Damn foolish thing to do, and yet it happens, over and over again. They are a fortunate nation indeed, but also a ridiculous one for the same reasons.
Of course.
and yes i did read it
No not at all. sad..very sad
shes so hot. i think sex change is absolutely beautiful. i don’t believe in the “God gave you this body” bullshit. you are who you are inside and if she/he is most comfortable having the change in an earlier stage then so be it.
All these people saying absolutely not should really do some research on these kinds of cases. You can’t decide whether you think a young girl is old enough simply from reading an article about her.
Do some research on sex changes, the people, how it works psychologically, etc. I don’t know if she’s old enough to make such a decision, but it’s an important decision to make. It would be better that she get the sex-change now and grow up the way she should, instead of being a male when she honestly should be a female.
i don’t believe in the “God gave you this body” bullshit. you are who you are inside and if she/he is most comfortable having the change in an earlier stage then so be it. –duckie_iz-me
I’m a grizzly bear on the inside. Where’s my species change surgery?
People… Not everyone thinks the same way you do. Not everybody is “normal” like you see it. Try thinking outside the box, or maybe try being in another person’s shoes.
I think a lot of the people commenting on this are being a tad too judgemental and not understanding enough…
Just do some research, please. Instead of these silly “of course not” rash decisions.
oh, wait, nevermind my last comment in relation to the article- it was in relation to peoples’ comments- not to the article.
“i don’t believe in the “God gave you this body” bullshit. you are who you are inside and if she/he is most comfortable having the change in an earlier stage then so be it. –duckie_iz-me
I’m a grizzly bear on the inside. Where’s my species change surgery?” – Chrisrusso
Say I have depression. Or I’m schizophrenic. God gave me that, why should I take medicine to change it?
People… Not everyone thinks the same way you do. Not everybody is “normal” like you see it. Try thinking outside the box, or maybe try being in another person’s shoes.
I think a lot of the people commenting on this are being a tad too judgemental and not understanding enough…
Just do some research, please. Instead of these silly “of course not” rash decisions.
Posted 1/29/2007 2:43 PM by Naoko_Ai
I’m not really worried about this kid. What I am worried about is if this age becomes the norm for this type of thing. This child is unique, and individual case. However, I don’t think all kids that might be getting this sort of thing at that age would be as definite.
No.
Yes of course.
lol
Yes, She obviously knows of the situation she is in and what she can do to change it. She also has a constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness. I’ve heard of cases where the person has all of the physical characteristics of a boy but the mental ones of a girl, and vice versa. It involves how hormones are released into the fetus while it is in the womb. I support this child’s effort to become a girl fully.
“I’m not really worried about this kid. What I am worried about is if this age becomes the norm for this type of thing. This child is unique, and individual case. However, I don’t think all kids that might be getting this sort of thing at that age would be as definite.” – Riri_Maggie
I agree, it is an odd case. But a lot of people seem to be judging it and saying that changing your gender is wrong PERIOD… Or such like that.
Evaluate the person, not the age.
No.
RYC: {concerning bombs and cluster bombs}
“The problem is that people don’t know the real death toll.”
That is something that is really hard to get a handle on. The media doesn’t feel particularly inclined to report such stats.
L,r
“(where else do you see stories of a trucker,thinking a family driving too slow, whips out a pistol and shoots all 3 family members)” – Vicianne
… Sorry to go entirely off topic, but that sounds like a pretty odd story to me. Gah, I hate how people judge truckers. They’re usually very nice people who have to do a very stressful job in order to make enough money. That’s a crazy story, and only gives truckers a bad name. Not to mention that truckers are usually the most skilled drivers in America…
dressed pretty girly if you ask me.
That’s insane.
These parents, as well as the doctors, should be ashamed of themselves. Call me intolerant, but the whole idea of changing ones sex is completely against nature.
Depends on the 12-year-old.
somebody has some strange bith defects. Kim/Tim and the doctor who thinks its okay. Oh, and mentaly disturbed parents.
Yes, she is. It isn’t as though it was just a phase or she’d be changing her mind.
I don’t know. If she’s felt like this since she was 2, then maybe there’s some grounds to it, but at the same time, 12 is not the best age to be making a decision like this; you’ve just hit puberty and your hormones are rediculous. I understand she’s got to be torn about this, but I just wish there was another alternative.
I think that is ridiculous. Do you know how many people think they have to have something, and then a year later change their minds completely. Her parents are completely ignorant to the fact that she is a child!
Actually, I don’t think so. Children are rapidly learning things much more earlier than their elders did at that age.
As for your previous post- people are getting ridiculous. When I flew out last week, I flew out of Buffalo and the security had me freaked out. They had me step into a tube-like structure that closed around me and blew air from all sorts of holes. I suppose it is to sniff anything out that needs to be. This method of security has only been accepted in 18 airports, I believe.
Ridiculous? Yes.
definitely not…this kids parent(s) need some serious help if they are letting him her whatever make these kinds of decisions so early in life.
Daaaaaaannnnnn!!!! I thought we had agreed to keep my issues my issues!
Still
Tim
OK, seriously, 12 is way too young to make such a decision. 18 is probably too young for such a thing. Like squeaky said, where are her parents?!
Absolutely NOT!
He went from a Tim to a Kim….
My bf’s name is Tim and my name is Kim, lol. I find that funny.
Hm. Well, her parents, docters etc. surely think so.
Besides, adults tend to look over the fact that some 12 year olds are old enough to think for themselves and might even know that they want.
(OMG I KNOW, ISN’T THAT CRAZY?)
Besides, she’s 14 and doesn’t seem to regret it.
NO! that is SO stupid!!! what in the world are *his* parents thinking??!?!?!??!!?
I suppose.
If this is a question about the maturity to make the decision, I guess it depends on how mature the 12 year old is mentally.
wow…i think it’s good that she is waiting for the actual surgery…my goodness…
flabbergasted…
*HUGS*
Has anyone even read the article. Cause you should.
We don’t know all the facts to make a decision. I am sure (at least I would hope) that her parents helped her to make an informative decision. As above stated, there might have been some physical differences that helped make that decision more quickly. I’m thinking at that age it would be easier for “Tim” to develop into “Kim”. Medical issues along with physical and mental = hopefully one happy little girl (?).
Holy cow, no way. Where are the parents here? That’s just way, way too young.
Larry doesn’t think so…there are so many questions young people have…
Larry loves you all very much!!
As always, that depends. As a general rule, I would say no. But hey, this could be an exceptional case.
absolutely NOT
No. We don’t trust them to drive or drink alcohol why would we trust their judgement on major surgery.
Dan, you are EXTREMELY irresponsible for not posting up more of the article. Obviously your idiot readers didn’t read the entire article itselt, and/or didn’t understand the important point that Kim has NEVER been comfortable. I like the line from the article:
“Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.”
That is exactly how people should think about this. Not in terms of age, in terms of experience. Fuck age, age is no indicator of anything. A 12-year-old in the Congo is most emphatically NOT like a 12-year-old in the U.S. and people need to fucking realize that age does not equal maturity or anything else for that matter.
No idea Dan….That’s a tough one….Is she a hermaprodite? Chromosomal abnormalities??
Love, Candy
Did God say, “Oops”? He must have made a mistake if this person was supposed to be female and came out male. Fortunately we now have the skills and technology to ‘correct’ God’s mistakes.
(For those who don’t me and can’t tell, the above is sarcasm.)
The parents are mostly to blame here, though the greedy doctors are culpable as well.
Jesse4Jesus
uuuggghhh are you KIDDING!?!?!?
uuuuggghhh
12 yr old is too young. your blogs are interesting. i am commenting on every single one of them posted today! i am going to subscribe to it now.
No…
Some people are born with both genitalia.
I think it’s a sign of a good strong family, especially parents, to let the child decide which sex to choose. It must have been heartbreaking to go through.
Definitely not old enough.
No.
Well, if she was born hermaphroditic, then yes. Those born with that condition are usually unstable in their sexual feelings and if born both but changed to, lets say, a boy, can feel like they don’t belong and should be a girl.
But if it was just out of bordom, than that’s just creepy.
“Depends if it’s one of those rare cases where a human is born with male genitalia and female hormones. He/she might think like a girl, act like a girl, and have hormonal instincts like a girl and look on the outside like a guy. So if it can be presented that those are uncontroversial facts, then the younger the trans-gender surgery is done the better.”-PSUnited1
Seems like that might be the case.
no
I would like to say yes.
However, I don’t think we can judge unless we were in that position.
It’d simply be ignorant.
that is beyond disgusting
I don’t think so–I don’t think anyone’s mature enough to make huge life decisions at 12 . . . what if she changes her mind later in life? then what? Wouldn’t she be stuck as a she and sterile?? How could her parents let her do that?
Yes.
Envy. . .
umm no.
I would be willing to bet this girl has an intersex condition. Its much more common than many think. One can be a boy per chomosomes but develop into a girl because their body doesn’t respond normally to testosterone and other androgens. There are also many other intersex conditions that could possibly explain this situation.
o_o
yep, I do
the video you have up top is amazing, haha
“Did God say, “Oops”? He must have made a mistake if this person was supposed to be female and came out male. Fortunately we now have the skills and technology to ‘correct’ God’s mistakes.”
Then why did God give us the means to change these things?
God didn’t make a mistake, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to change it. He gave us the means to change it. Maybe he intended for us to do something for ourselves. What happened to “God works in mysterious ways”?
“That is exactly how people should think about this. Not in terms of age, in terms of experience. Fuck age, age is no indicator of anything. A 12-year-old in the Congo is most emphatically NOT like a 12-year-old in the U.S. and people need to fucking realize that age does not equal maturity or anything else for that matter.” – Adriene
Amen, Adriene!
only if their bodies are mutilated to the point where only a sex change would make them seem more human
Nope.
i think that if there’s a 12 year old who is bold enough to say that they want a sex change that they are certainly “mature” enough.
maturity cannot be determined by age except in a general range. just because they seem young doesn’t mean they can’t make important decisions for themselves.
It all depends on the situation, understanding by the child and the child parents.
I would like to say I would have my child wait until they were at least 18 years of age but sometimes circumstances make a difference.
I am all for adults doing what they want, I have dated transgenders and I am in love with a transgender but he isn’t under 18.
Interesting nonetheless
-Meghan
Well, I believe that being gay or whatever you want to call it is a choice, not something you’re born with, so I don’t think that is right for someone of any age. Plus, it’s just sick and wrong.
The fact that Kim identified this problem at such a young age (2) is surely an indicator of the reality of this problem. It must have been extremely difficult or impossible to put words to such an abstract concept at that young of an age. She must have spoken through her actions or something similar. I read a book entitled Luna, about a transgendered girl, and in the story she attempted to actually cut off her male genitalia when she was just a toddler.
There is not a point when one’s opinion becomes valid. You can’t judge when decisions become important in any mind but your own.
no!
“shes so hot. i think sex change is absolutely beautiful. i don’t believe in the “God gave you this body” bullshit. you are who you are inside and if she/he is most comfortable having the change in an earlier stage then so be it.”
I have some things to say. First of all, I’m tired of all these people making this an area for arguments. This is a comments section. You leave a comment, not start a fight over a choice that is not yours to make. Second, what is with all of this religious BS. Who cares what “God” thinks? If she (yeah, I referred to God as female, although I don’t buy into Christianity) has a problem with it, she could come down and fix it if it pissed her off enough. Where in the bible does it say anything about whether you should be able to change your body to fit your persona/mentallity? Third, I had feelings like that too when I was her age. Unfourtuantely, all I did was ignore them and cross dress in private. I wish now I had said something then instead of dealing with it now. Finally, who are you people to judge this girl. It is her decision and if she is happy with it (which the article indicates she is), then it is fine with her. People need to learn that morals are good guidelines to live by, but that is all they are. It is up to the individual to live in a manner that is befitting to them. Take this message with you. Live your life contently with no regrets. More power to you girl. Live a good life and good luck with the fashion thing.
What do the homosexual sheep think?
i think she is. if she is confident enough to go through with it, then why not? twelve year olds are smarter than we think. i mean, don’t you remember when you were twelve? i mean, i guess her head may be blinded by raging hormones of transitioning from one age group to another. her parents aren’t to blame because it’s not their life to control over. i respect her parent’s openness. if she grows up and finds out “OOPS! i wish i hadn’t had a sex change” then it’s her fault. HER fault.
anyway – i don’t know why everyone is blaming the parents. if parents let their children have million dollar sweet sixteens, then why not?
i guess in this society, anything goes.
Ugh….
yes. if they are willing to put up with the mockery throughout middle and high school which they know is inevitable, then the kid obviously really wants this. I give a way to go kid, to whoever this 14 year old is.
Derek
Generally? Probably not. In specific cases, where the child is showing a consistent [over several years] need to be of a different gender? Probably.
All those rambling endlessly about God didnt make a mistake, first prove to me beyond a shadow of doubt (as cliche as the phrase is) that there is even a God to make a mistake, and then rethink your argument a second time.
If we followed this God made us how he intended, well then sorry girls, put the razors away. And sorry old women, no hair dye. Sorry old men, no hair replacement.
You say that those are two different extremes. Ok. Lets look at it psychologically. God intended us to be how we were born. Eyes, we need glasses, maybe God intended you to be blind. Maybe he wanted you to not have legs, maybe he wanted you to have a social disorder.
Rethink your arguement before you claim “Because God said so” on this one
Derek
Well, I’m not sure. I don’t know the girl, so I can’t exactly speak for her maturity level. If it’s been apparent since childhood though, it could very well be that she was born with male genitalia and female hormones. In which case, it would be kind of cruel to allow her to mature into a man. At the same time, twelve is a very young age for a decision like this. I guess you have to decide on something like this on a case-by-case basis, you know? I have no objections to transgenderisms, not at all. While I think that twelve IS young for that kind of decision, I suppose you just have to trust her. You know?
Also, I completely agree with drock19901309.
in this situation I would say yes. I think by 12 years old your idea of yourself is pretty solid. None of us are transgendered and so we have no idea what it is like. From what I understand, they know at an early age. It’s society that has a problem with their decision and makes it a conflict for them. I am Ok with the situation.
LOL at 12 year old haven’t hit puberty yet. umm yes, many of them have.
p.s. transgendered is not the same thing as homosexuals. homsexuals do not want to be the opposite sex. they do not feel like a person of the oppostie sex.
i don’t think so
Anyone making the decision for a sex change is clearly not mature enough to making the decision simply for the reason that they are making it. Sex changes are a perversion, and I can’t imagine the type of parents this BOY must have that are not only allowing it but probably influenced the choice.
-Jared
No way.
No. “Maturity” isn’t the issue – Accepting how God made you, is. No one is “mature” enought to make that decision - God made that decision before we were born. It’s wrong, and this particular case is especially disturbing. The boy’s parents - what were they Thinking?!?!
I really wouldn’t think so, but I hope everything’s going all right.
this is one of those questions where i think it would be judgemental to have an opinion either way. we don’t know this person… and no matter what our outside, objective opinions might be, they’d be extremely subjective once we got more information.
Most definately not.
I know how everyones reacting, but I think in some cases they can be. I once worked with a girl around that age who was convinced she was a boy. She wouldn’t answer to her female name, and refused to use the womens bathroom. It was really kind of tragic…she obviously knew what she felt, but she was trapped in this body that she knew she wasn’t right in.
If you imagine their position, it becomes less of a shock.
Ditto, mooshpitmatt.
Wow, I can’t believe the level of idiocy here today. And I thought our countrywas moving forward.
Depends. Wow. She’s pretty for a guy.
Some are. Some aren’t.
No. Wow. Bad parents.
I taught one young man who at thirteen was already a total nut-job because he was being raised as a boy when he was genetically a girl. While it is true that the boy had a penis on the outside, inside he had ovaries and fallopian tubes. I know he was something of an anomaly, but he is not the only one who ever had that problem. You have no idea of some of the terrible things that have happened in the past to those people we should probably call hermaphrodites. All of us fall somewhere on the continuum of male to female, and only two per cent are on the extreme ends. The thing is like a double bell curve statistically. Two per cent of males and two percent of females are really both at once. this one sounds like more of a psychological thing, but that makes it no less real. I feel sorry for this boy. There is no socially acceptable answer for his problem. He is going to suffer as a she, too. But I do agree with those who admire his/her courage. She is truly going to need it.
Yipes!
Case by case type of thing. We would need to know about this case. When I was a street kid hormones were easy to get, and the 13 and 15 year old I shared a motel room with for a time seemed dead set on “gettin some ‘mones” so they could be women and have some New Jersey drug dealer take them to Atlantic city for the rest of their lives.
Then again, of that whole group of kids, only me and one other are still alive, so go figure. This 12 year old, ahem, 14 year old? It’s bad to mess with the body requiring a lifetime of medical maintenence. Why can’t someone just be gay or transgendered?
Well.. some 12 year olds are a lot different than is normally expected. She may be mature enough to make a decision. Some people who feel like they need a sex change also feel like their life can’t go on as the gender they are. They’re depressed and angry.. and I think that if she was upset enough in her own skin, that its the right thing that she made the change.
I don’t think a 12-year old is quite old enough to be making that sort of decision.
But I also think that it is what is best for her. So… Yay for her parents.
i think so.
I read that story. Poor girl. She made the right choice. Also, she’s happy, and she will never have biological children. The gene does not pass on. Win-win?
“in this situation I would say yes. I think by 12 years old your idea of yourself is pretty solid. None of us are transgendered and so we have no idea what it is like. From what I understand, they know at an early age. It’s society that has a problem with their decision and makes it a conflict for them. I am Ok with the situation.
LOL at 12 year old haven’t hit puberty yet. umm yes, many of them have.”
Umm, I’m trans and I do know what it’s like buddy.
Not at all. Once he/she is 18, then let him/her make the decision, unless his/her parents are allowing it. But any doctor who would give a child hormone therapy needs to be reviewed by a medical board of some sort. They haven’t even proved that that kind of therapy is safe for humans yet. So, there is another ethical issue in this case.
I dont know, my friend knew since she was four that she was supposed to be a girl and not a boy, but she’s just starting to transition and she feels like she missed a lot of her childhood. I think it would have been easier for her if she had gotten hormones earlier.
There are probably some 12 yr. olds that are mature at making decisions- important ones at that. But this type of decision-no way.
“Depends if it’s one of those rare cases where a human is born with male genitalia and female hormones. He/she might think like a girl, act like a girl, and have hormonal instincts like a girl and look on the outside like a guy. So if it can be presented that those are uncontroversial facts, then the younger the trans-gender surgery is done the better.”
I agree.
wtf?? D:
Are you kidding?
i want to say no 12 year old can make a decision to have a sexchange because what if at 18 or 30 they regret having the sexchange and its done. then they have 3 options. 1 live life as a woman. 2 commit suicide or 3 change back to a male best as possible and live a life with a vagina.
its like a genetic girl deciding to have sex at the age of 11 or 12 or 13 and getting pregnant and choosing to keep the baby at that age they dont know what they want.
Thats my 2 cents.
~Ritalee
If the nice doctor with the big brains and the really cool pieces of paper that say he’s in agreement about it, then that means that he know’s something we don’t. So all this bitching is besides the point.
’nuff said…
I’m going to venture to say that pretty much everyone who disagrees with this has obviously never spoken to, listened to, and/or befriended a transsexual.
I heard (saw) someone say child abuse. Excuse me?! These parents are saving her life. These parents should be commended. These parents have enough love for their daughter to accept her, trust her, and give her a chance at life.
The transsexual suicide rate is 31%. Over 50% of Transsexuals will have had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday.
Bullying.
Hate crimes.
Murder.
A transgendered girl is BORN with a female brain in a male body. It is a birth defect, not a “choice”.
12 years old is not too young.
Well, she probably has parents. It is their decisions.
no. Should have to wait til 18
no way
any age limit used is just an arbitrary number, at best. i suppose it would’ve been best for a psychologist to review the patient, although like everyone else, i definitely have got my reservations about 12 years old.
I believe we are born with the sex God gave us..
But Tim is pretty good looking for a girl
but it seems like “inborn” in this case
so I think it’s not a matter of being mature
No. Don’t even refer to him as a “she”. He was made by God as a boy, and will always be a boy, regardless of any amount of surgeries to change him. He needs some serious mental help.
That is absurd.
I don’t understand the appeal to God here. How does anyone know that God chooses which set of genitals and chromosomes we’ll have? I think in some areas a wheel is spinning and God lets it “naturally” stop where it will, without guiding it. I’m not saying it’s like that in all areas, but I think people appeal to God a bit too much.
If God made blind, would it be wrong to have laser surgery to change it? You can say something like “but blindness is a disease”, but then I could say ask, “so you’re saying God made a mistake?”
– Pat
I really have a hard time with the arrogance, rudeness, and lack of compassion I constantly see from the posters here. I don’t know how Dan handles reading it all of the time. It’s like many of you have forgotten that you’re speaking about or to fellow HUMAN BEINGS — not lab rats. Try mustering up some compassion
Well if you read the actual article, it explains that Tim believed he was a girl when he was just two years old. I don’t think that’s a matter of whether he’s mature or not, I think it’s a matter of whether that’s even possible.
I don’t think the people that just commented read the article
From what I read in the article”Kim” is attracted to girls >.> . I wonder if one day “Kim” might change back. 12 is too young. There comes a time when many teens question their sexuality, and experiment. Getting a “gender reassignment” at such a young age is wrong. Kim should have waited until reaching adulthood before making that choice.
if it’s about something that instinctive and deep down, yes
i do think it a young age to make such a big decision but if that really what “she” wants then who are we to get in “her” way. the more power to “her”!!!
–Chriistyna–
So long as the child has undergone thorough and complete psychological evaluation, then I think 12 years of age shouldn’t be so much of an issue as much as the issue of the little kid recognizing drastic differences of male and female characteristics and wanting one over the other.. It’s depressing how people are made uncomfortable with themselves physically and emotionally via society and the media..
<3n
No.
Yes she is.
if you knew what she was feeling then you wouldnt think it would be to soon.
I think that either this story is not true or it is a whole lot more complicated than that.
No, I don’t think 12 year ols are old enough.
I really don’t think anyone can judge whether “a twelve year old” is mature enough to make this decision. You can’t put people in a box because of their age in unusual circumstances like this. If the question were “is a twelve year old mature enough to get married?” then I think I could safely say no. However, this is a very special circumstance, one that I don’t think many of your readers, least of all I, could begin to understand.
no fair
It’s hard to say.
I guess it depends on the child.
But for the most part, I would say no.
that is so crazy
I don’t think 12 year-olds are mature enough to make many decisions, some as simple as getting a tattoo. No, I don’t think a 12 year-old has the psychological capacity to fully understand permanent consequences of major surgery and other life changes. I remember being twelve. I was convinced I should have been born in the 60s. I dressed like a hippie, talked like a hippie, wore patchouli like a hippie…I still have some remnants of that, but that was a phase. It passed. Had it persisted past adolescence, a time reknown for its tumultuous up-and-downs and unstable, chameleon-like self-image, I may have integrated it into my identity. I definitely, definitely think decisions resulting in serious, permanent medical alterations should be kept at bay until psychological maturation is more advanced, and the person has a more concrete, permanent sense of self. I work in the clinical mental health field, and cannot ethically endorse any major permanent, disruptive life choices being made during adolescence. Sure, the person may be *sure* of how they feel, but to avoid the potential for horrid psychiatric repurcussions later in life, it would behoove the person to wait until at *least* the end stages of adolescence, if not sometime into their 20s. During this time, the self becomes more stable and consistent, and less likely to shift all over the place as in adolescence.
>As far as the age, if 12 yrs old is old enough to accept and concecrate to god, then its old enough to make such a determination for themself, with the proper counseling….
Peace
She/He would regret the decision!!
Let her make her decisions, if she screws up it’s her life anyway.
zig_zag_bones wrote:
>> I don’t think 12 year-olds are mature enough to make many decisions, some as simple as getting a tattoo. No, I don’t think a 12 year-old has the psychological capacity to fully understand permanent consequences of major surgery and other life changes. <<
As other posters, you’re here making a sweeping generalization about all 12 year olds. Did you read the article about this particular 12 year old? And as I noted earlier, chronological age doesn’t always line up with mental age, which is where maturity and growth come from. There are plenty of people in the age range of 12-16 who are just as mature and grown up as the expected 25-30 year old.
>> I remember being twelve. I was convinced I should have been born in the 60s. I dressed like a hippie, talked like a hippie, wore patchouli like a hippie…I still have some remnants of that, but that was a phase. It passed. <<
Yes, but you weren’t like that from age 2 to 12.
>> Had it persisted past adolescence, a time reknown for its tumultuous up-and-downs and unstable, chameleon-like self-image, I may have integrated it into my identity. I definitely, definitely think decisions resulting in serious, permanent medical alterations should be kept at bay until psychological maturation is more advanced <<
I really find this line of reasoning to be offensive. Chronological age is *not* a marker of maturity, but *mental* age is. There are 3 areas of age: chronological, biological, and mental, and they very often don’t line up together — plenty of middle aged persons behave the way an expected 12 year old would and vice versa. Please don’t make a judgment on all 12 year olds simply because of your own experience.
>> and the person has a more concrete, permanent sense of self. I work in the clinical mental health field, and cannot ethically endorse any major permanent, disruptive life choices being made during adolescence. <<
Then you are in the minority. This doesn’t mean you’re automatically wrong, but you should have made that qualifier. I’ve been studying neurology, psychology, ethics, and the mind-brain problem for a while now and am quite familiar with those fields.
>> Sure, the person may be *sure* of how they feel, but to avoid the potential for horrid psychiatric repurcussions later in life, it would behoove the person to wait until at *least* the end stages of adolescence, if not sometime into their 20s. <<
Again, sweeping and unfounded generalization. Chronological age is *not* a marker of identity concreteness.
>> During this time, the self becomes more stable and consistent, and less likely to shift all over the place as in adolescence.<<
Except for all of those wishy washy 30 year olds we see on Dr. Phil all of the time.
– Pat
zig_zag_bones wrote:
>> I don’t think 12 year-olds are mature enough to make many decisions, some as simple as getting a tattoo. No, I don’t think a 12 year-old has the psychological capacity to fully understand permanent consequences of major surgery and other life changes. <<
As other posters, you’re here making a sweeping generalization about all 12 year olds. Did you read the article about this particular 12 year old? And as I noted earlier, chronological age doesn’t always line up with mental age, which is where maturity and growth come from. There are plenty of people in the age range of 12-16 who are just as mature and grown up as the expected 25-30 year old.
>> I remember being twelve. I was convinced I should have been born in the 60s. I dressed like a hippie, talked like a hippie, wore patchouli like a hippie…I still have some remnants of that, but that was a phase. It passed. <<
Yes, but you weren’t like that from age 2 to 12.
>> Had it persisted past adolescence, a time reknown for its tumultuous up-and-downs and unstable, chameleon-like self-image, I may have integrated it into my identity. I definitely, definitely think decisions resulting in serious, permanent medical alterations should be kept at bay until psychological maturation is more advanced <<
Chronological age is *not* a marker of maturity, but *mental* age is. There are 3 areas of age: chronological, biological, and mental, and they very often don’t line up together — plenty of middle aged persons behave the way an expected 12 year old would and vice versa. Please don’t make a judgment on all 12 year olds simply because of your own experience.
>> and the person has a more concrete, permanent sense of self. I work in the clinical mental health field, and cannot ethically endorse any major permanent, disruptive life choices being made during adolescence. <<
Then you are in the minority. This doesn’t mean you’re automatically wrong, but you should have made that qualifier. I’ve been studying neurology, psychology, ethics, and the mind-brain problem for a while now and am quite familiar with those fields.
>> Sure, the person may be *sure* of how they feel, but to avoid the potential for horrid psychiatric repurcussions later in life, it would behoove the person to wait until at *least* the end stages of adolescence, if not sometime into their 20s. <<
Again, sweeping and unfounded generalization. Chronological age is *not* a marker of identity concreteness.
>> During this time, the self becomes more stable and consistent, and less likely to shift all over the place as in adolescence.<<
Except for all of those wishy washy 30 year olds we see on Dr. Phil all of the time.
– Pat
jesus christ. for a recap, if kim likes girls then kim likes girls. if tim wanted to have a sex change to be kim, and showed interest does he really have to like men? that would be a hate crime. Kim will have to live with her decision for the rest of her life, im sure that was firmly planted into her mind. let the girl rest. she made the right decision, a very hard decision. one i doubt many, if any here would be willing to make. go kim
Derek
I don’t really know. It just depends on your maturity.
-KrIsTiN-
holy crap! im sorry but what the hell is wrong with her parents?
holy crap! im sorry but what the hell is wrong with her parents?
Posted 1/31/2007 5:33 PM by mssx34 <<
Nothing, unless it’s wrong to love.
– Pat
nobody should get a sex change.
your sex is like everything about you. people need to accept themselves
>> your sex is like everything about you. <<
Does that mean intersexed people (those without a sex) don’t exist?
>> people need to accept themselves <<
That’s exacty what Tim did.
– Pat
I should have instead asked, “what about people without a sex?”
– Pat
i agree with PSUnited1 . If the child was born a man with the genetic makeup of a female (or vice versa), then he/she should be given the right to choose, no matter what the age, but i would do some extensive counseling first. However, i dont think a child that is born a specific gender with that same genetic makeup should be allowed to make such a drastic decision before at least the age of 16-17.
it seems like the parents had plenty of time to think about this. IT also seems they care alot about their child, taking tim->kim to the right places to get help. It that is what is best for tim->kim then good. Glad they didnt force THEIR idea of a ‘correct’ gender on their child.
Good for her!
no way!
If that is what she wants, then yes.
no way, 12 year olds BARELY hit puberty at that age, so they wait until they change fully and become a young man or woman before making that decision.
What parents would allow that to happen to their child anyway????
i think not. The thing is, many changes go on during puperty. Alot of people arent clear what sexual preference they are until during/after those changes.
A friend of mine started being attracted to men only AFTER he became a transgendered man. (I spose in this case, he was just destined to be GAY, whether man or woman.)
I’m not in the mood to comment since i’m ready to do some drastic measures in order to survive… Nice story though
i think that kim should be able to fix the problem that she feels she has.it was wrong to let her suffer in a male body for twelve years and not give the treatment to fix it.
Uhhh…. well I think it’s reaallllly weird that the parents would let the kid do that. I don’t believe a twelve year old is mature enough for such a decision because, let’s face it, we see a lot of media showing us that homosexuality is very normal, even though it’s a very small percentage of people who are like that. For all the parents know the kid could have just been extremely rebellious… although to go to those lengths… wow.
Well, I think K/Tim should probably not have been allowed to do this. If he (because really, he was born male) wanted to change sexes, then maybe he should have waited until he was older to decide. I mean really- TWELVE?