February 22, 2007
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Divorce
One issue that is debated in Christian circles is the grounds for which a person can get divorced. Here is a passage on the words of Jesus from Matthew 19:
And some Pharisees came to Him, tempting Him, and saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?”
And He answered and said , “Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, And said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
They say unto him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate and divorce her?”
He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, Whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.”
I want to focus on this last phrase which gets a lot of attention: “Whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.”
If a person gets a divorce for a reason other than adultery, is it sin?
Comments (142)
Yes, I believe so. But I also believe that sin can be forgiven…
This says immorality for a reason, not adultery. Immorality could cover a lot of things…
What a funny blog to have on my anniversary day! lol
actually…..thinking its a sin is what has kept me married through some really tough times……cant shake that Catholic guilt!
kinda depends on the reason. if the reason is abuse, no because that’s dangerous. if it’s just because they “fell out of love”, then yes because it can be resolved. also, if the issue is abuse then a separation might do it. it removes the person from harm, but gives the marriage (which is a vow made before God Himself) another opportunity to heal.
no, not really. most times the divorce is for the better. not only for the married persons but for their children if they have any.
What if one spouse abuses the other? Or has severe emotional (alcoholism, drug addiction, anger problems, etc.)? And is a danger to the other and their children?
Yes, unless it is the other person who leaves. There are discussion of that later on in the New Testament, I believe in 1 Corinthians.
And abuse is complicated, I will say that. I like what Ashleigh_Joy said above.
What version is that anyway? It’s fornication in KJV… But then again Matthew 5:28: “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
I don’t believe that adultery is always enough reason to divorce. But there are reasons.
I can’t answer your question though, because I don’t have the required belief set to think in terms of sin or not sin.
not in the real world.
I don’t think so. What if one spouse is physically abusing the other, and the abusing spouse refuses to change his/her ways?
what isn’t sin?…
“what isn’t sin?…” leonidas
obeying God
Ha ha, that means my ex-husband will be committing adultery if he marries again. Sorry bastage!
I hope that God considers the circumstances. I’m divorced. Not proud, but so much happier than I was.
Yes.
But as in ALL things, it is important to remember that we have all sinned in one way or another.
In other words, it’s fine to call a sin a sin – and I believe it is our responsibility to do so. But it must be done in love (wanna open a real can of worms? Look at how it describes marriage. Male and female…)
Well, Dan… why don’t you ever tell us what you think? I am very curious. Most of your questions are very tongue-in-cheek, and I appreciate the humor/sarcasm/agitation of discussion… so let us know what you think about some of these things.
AOTD: Yes, divorce is sin. In my lengthy four month marriage experience (*wink*), I have it all figured out.
Yes it’s a sin, and you’re forgiven for it if you ask for forgiveness and R E P E N T. Created anew in the flesh.
I am a divorcee, I didn’t want the divorce EVEN THOUGH my ex-husband committed adultery for six years out of our 8 year marriage *and on top of that out of an 11 year RELATIONSHIP* I still didn’t want the divorce, but he did, and you know what… boy IM SO FREAKIN GLAD!!!! (not only was it on BIBLICAL GROUNDS) but man, I dodged a bullet because I didn’t know, until a year after the divorce, that he had been unfaithful the whole time, not just the ONE time he admitted to adultery and man, think of all the STDS, HIV, or AIDS he could have given me??!! ick! He’s such a dumbass, and I mean it, because he knew my father- who has been knocking on death’s door with full blown aids for the past 15 years.
Seriously, what kind of dumbass would KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY have unprotected sex and CAUSE HARM to his wife and kids (the wife being pregnant the whole time ya know??) sheesh. How much more HEARTLESS can one be? WHOA
Ok stepping off the soapbox here.
Oh by the way… Even though my ex husband HAS remarried… I am not an adulteress by being in a relationship (or remarrying) because I have been biblically given that right for divorce, but HE— being the adulterer has caused his new wife to be an adulteress (he married the girl he had been having an affair with) so therefore they are repeatedly committing adultery for the rest of their lives until or unless they ask for forgiveness. (which they haven’t) I have prayed for them and encouraged it but they don’t believe they’re in the wrong. (lol) oh well.
He says “immorality”, not “adultery”. I would think that abuse would fall under that category. There are a few reasonable reasons to get divorced, such as adultery or abuse (I feel adultery is a form of emotional abuse). To be divorced for those reasons is not necessarily sinful. To get divorced for any little thing (e.g., “I’m not happy, wah wah”), would be a sin.
I’m divorced, and even though I still don’t know if my ex physically cheated on me, he met another woman on the internet, flew down to where she lived and met her and her kids (she was a real winner) and had every intention of leaving me for her. So in my mind, he did cheat on me whether it was physical or not, and therefore our divorce was perfectly justified. I agree with the commenter who said she didn’t want the divorce, but she’s so glad it happened-that’s totally me. I did NOT want to give up on my marriage but looking back, I’m so, so glad I’m not with him anymore.
RYC: Thank you, you make me blush.
I’ll be posting the actual picture later.
You’ve clipped his sentence, Dan. Reread the Jesus quote–it’s not that divorce = sin, it’s divorce + remarriage (except in cases of adultery) = sin. The idea is that there’s a one-man-to-one-woman ideal we’re not living up to.
And I believe there can be emotional adultery as well as the physical sexual type.
in another passage doesn’t it say that if your husband/wife dies then you can marry again and it’s not a sin?
^Oooh, good eye, squeakysoul. I agree about adultery and abuse being forms of each other.
<– (Trying to refrain from shouting)
Is Jesus our Lord and Master, or isn’t He? Is marriage a vow before Almighty God, or isn’t it?
When God Himself personally visits the earth in human flesh and tells us what to do or what not to do, how can we even POSSIBLY sit around and discuss whether it’s a sin or not?
It’s really plain and simple. If God told us to not do something and we do it anyway, IT’S A SIN!
So how come we’re so busy trying to hem and haw, looking for ways to carve out exceptions or impose our own values on what Jesus said? Are our values better than Jesus’ values? Do we have more wisdom or more insight than He does?
But here’s the REAL can of worms, the verse that gets almost no attention. Matthew 5:32 says that the divorced person is to REMAIN UNMARRIED.
Some would say that’s just too difficult. I’d say that it’s not difficult at all. All we have to do is obey. Jesus told us what to do, it’s quite plain, all that’s left is for us to stop being rebellious little children.
I’m not against discussing “I think this” or “I think that”. But when God Himself has pronounced a ruling on the matter, the time for discussing is over and the time for obedience has begun.
oh, right, uhm… completely different thing
If you believe in the literal translation then it is simply put. Yes. The Church has been battling over this issue forever.
I think adultery, abuse and addiction are acceptable reasons for getting a divorce.
yes
Another thing to consider: In the cultural context in which Matthew was writing (the Roman Empire), monogamy was rare, except among Jews, and even still a little rare there. This was all fairly new and revolutionary.
RCon the translation – I *think* that the greek there is actually “divorce” and not “immorality”, though some translations translate it that way.
#1 – It’s right there in the verse you quoted. It’s clear as day. Either you believe what it says, or you close your eyes to it.
#2 – Squeakysoul and ChrisRusso. The word that has been translated into immorality, in its original Greek, is Porneia - Strong’s number 4202. It is defined as the following:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
Based on this definition of porneia, I don’t think abuse is grounds for divorce. It may be grounds for other things, like intervention, justice, protection, whatever. But it is not grounds for divorce.
Some will be lying.
Fight Mental Illness Stigma
yes, except in extreme cases like abuse.. OR if you are the one being divored. like you wife/husband had an affair, you want to try to stay together but they do not and divorce you – i do not think you are responsable for that.
I am also beggining to have a problem that men cannot be deacons unless they are married and never divoced for two reasons (1)If i never marry i can never serve God as a deacon simply because i am single (when Paul said it would be good to be single???) and (2) What if i am divorced and later come to Christ – should it be seen as a sin to keep me from leadership when it was before i knew Christ. I think this is one issue we prooftext instead of sitting down and discerning its meaning, a man who is after God’s own heart, a man who is a true Christian.
- Daniel (doubledb)
Yes, I believe it is. It is so heartbreaking and such a bad testimony to the world that Christians get married and divorced like it’s nothing. The church has become too cavalier about this whole issue.
For academic comparison and word studies.
8-9Jesus said, “Moses provided for divorce as a concession to your hard heartedness, but it is not part of God’s original plan. I’m holding you to the original plan, and holding you liable for adultery if you divorce your faithful wife and then marry someone else. I make an exception in cases where the spouse has committed adultery.”
–The Message
9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery
–King James Version
9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
– English Standard Version
9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
–New International Version
9″And I say to you, (A)whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
– New American Standard Bible
it is a sign of lack of perseverance in love. and if that love is meant to be the same as that between you and Christ, then yes it would be a sin.
however I am not Christian, so I say no it is not a sin; but it is disrespectful to the the human with whom you have been joined. If you make a mutual decision to divorce, and there is little or minimal pain from it, this is acceptable to me but still sad.
We take marriage far too lightly, we sleep around and produce children from lust and not love.
I would think the meaning of immorality is greater than adultery.
Define immorality.
Marriage…now that I am older being committed to one person seems so very unnatural.
You’re still misreading–it’s not the divorcing that’s the problem, but the sleeping with someone else afterwards. If you were to divorce your wife and then remain celibate for the rest of your life, presumably Jesus would have no problem with that.
You have to understand some of the theological ideas behind what Jesus is presenting here. When a man and woman marry, and have sexual intercourse, they become “one flesh.” In other words, they are spiritually bonded to one another. Connected. They are one.
So once they have become one, they should not separate… ever. That is the golden standard.
However, what Jesus is saying is that when one half of the whole goes to another person and bonds with them, ie. have sexual relations, then that half is now bonded to two different people. The original couple, who was one flesh, is now one big mess. This is not the way God designed for people to be. Therefore, Jesus is permitting people to divorce (to unbond themselves from their spouse) as a result of sexual immorality.
We have been incorrectly taught and blindly believe that once a person is divorced, they somehow still have a spouse. They cannot get married again. This lie is designed to keep people in bondage their entire lives. To see how much your mind has been conditioned, answer the following questions:
If you were divorced or your spouse was deceased, would you still have a mate? Of course not! Let me ask the same question a different way. If you are a woman and your husband was divorced from you or deceased, would you have a husband? And if you are a man and your wife was divorced from you or deceased, would you have a wife? To seek answers to these simple questions may seem silly, but if we have answered them as “Yes”, that’s what we’ve been taught.
We have been told that a person cannot get married once they have been divorced because their spouse is alive, even though after the divorce they don’t have a spouse; but once that spouse dies, they can then get married. In the case of a woman who has been divorced, it is NOT true that their HUSBAND is alive, but it IS true that their FORMER HUSBAND is alive. To put it another way, we were told that we were “bound” (married) to someone when we weren’t. We were quoted that “a wife is BOUND by law as long as her husband lives [that’s if she has one, but a divorced woman doesn’t have a husband]; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord” (1Corinthians 7:39).
This isolated Scripture was used as an illustration by the Apostle Paul to give an example of when a person dies; they are no longer under the law. Paul was NOT teaching about divorce.
How then can we accept that we have a spouse when we’re not married? When a person is divorced, they don’t have a husband or wife. This means they are not “bound” to someone. This Scripture is for the person who is MARRIED and wants to marry someone else while they are still married to another. You can’t be married to two people at the same time. If you’re divorced, you CAN get married again BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A HUSBAND OR WIFE. Simply, you’re single or unmarried, if divorced.
“I say to the UNMARRIED and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I [the Apostle Paul] am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, LET THEM MARRY. FOR IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH PASSION” (1Corinthians 7:8,9). Who would “burn with passion” the most: the person who was NEVER married, who never knew a close intimate relationship and the pleasures of sex, or the person who had been married? God knows the power and pull that a sexually intimate relationship has on a person once they are separated from their spouse. That’s why He said concerning prayer and fasting, “Do not deprive one another [sexually] except with consent for a time, that you may give yourself to fasting and prayer; AND COME TOGETHER AGAIN SO THAT SATAN DOES NOT TEMPT YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF SELF-CONTROL” (1Corinthians 7:5).
THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS “SUFFER NOT A NOVICE TO TEACH…” GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW A WOMAN TO STAY IN AN ABUSIVE MARRIAGE. IF A MAN WANTS TO GO AND LUST AFTER OTHER WOMEN AND LOOK A PORN… WHY SHOULD THE WIFE STAY WITH HIM????
if a womans husband cheats and throws you on a bus cross country and then mails you a letter saying he wants a divorce because hes fallen in love with a bar maid, the woman is not the adulterer if she remarries. she is perfectly within her own right to do so.
Wow.. I guess so
I believe that marriage is intended to be permanent. Even in cases of adultery it can be worked out unless there was a serious problem from the beginning (at least that is what I think). Many people rush into marriage before they are ready and that leads to adultery or abuse which leads in turn to divorce.
God has a plan for each of us and while allows free will to choose our own plan he does have a plan for us in love as well as in every other area of life. Most people, even most Christians, either forget that or are not aware of that and wind up marrying a person they were not intended to marry. Even when you do marry the right person there is no guarantee that life will be easy as you will still have to work.
Most people in the US today are afraid of hard work and have it in their heads that if it is worth doing then it will be easy and this mindset leads to many divorces with the intention of finding someone else. That intention even if it never comes to fruition is a sin in my eyes.
Since some regard looking at porn as adultery, would that justify a divorce?
Wildsurfing – While I appreciate your passion for the subject, I must respectfully disagree. I believe what Jesus is saying here is that people who think they are divorced have not been legitimately granted a divorce. Although man and man-made laws may declare two people to be divorced, in the eyes of God, the divorce never happened. The two people are still married, they are still bonded. I believe what Jesus is saying here is that the only people who are granted a divorce are when one of the two has committed adultry and violated the marriage covenant. In all other cases, a divorce is not permissable.
Remember, till death due us part. Not till death or divorce do us part. I say this because you use “death or divorce” a lot in your comment. Paul writes to the unmarried (not yet married) and the widowers. Not to the divorced in the Corinthian passage you cite.
There, the key is “marries another woman.” It is only a sin if you remarry. Jesus was a big fan of monogomy
Thank goodness we don’t look to nutty institutions like religion for guidance when making laws.
God hates divorce because divorce hurts people.
the word immorality could cover many things that are considered so immoral for divorce
I think the use of the word “immorality” rather than adultery is important. Immoral acts extend beyond adultery. If there is a fast hard reason for the divorce, then I do not think it is wrong or a sin. However, I DO think that you should try to work things out, like really try and devote yourself to it, before you go and try to break up.
Immorality is a loose translation. Jesus is specifically talking about sexual immorality. Please read the comments above.
well, i think the point is that a court-ordained ‘divorce’ has no effect on God’s standard of faithfulness in marriage. it’s not that getting a divorce is wrong, it’s that getting a divorce and then remarrying (or, seeking to remarry) is.
This [Jesus' teaching] is in response to what a lot of the Jews were doing: getting divorces for flippant reasons.
I cringe when I see people talking about how “it says immorality, not adultery because…”. It wasn’t written in English. Before you talk about why, you may want to check out what the original word means. The word carries the idea of having sex with someone else.
A woman in an abusive relationship should get out. However, I don’t think that requires getting a divorce. It’s not a simple issue.
Someone who has been cheated on is not doing wrong in getting a divorce or in remarrying, though he or she doesn’t have to do either one.
With someone who is left by someone else when there has been no cheating, I wouldn’t remarry unless the other person did so first. I am under the impression that the sexual act is what absolves the relationship (the two becoming one flesh). Though that’s the way I see it and I gather that from Scripture, it’s not explicit enough that I am dogmatic about it.
If I meet a divorcee, I don’t attach a stigma to them.
I believe if someone divorces for unacceptable reasons and then marries another, that person only commits adultery in the first sexual act. They aren’t living in sin.
I don’t think “emotional adultery” is included in the word for “immorality.” Jesus tells them that lusting in the heart is the root of the problem in Matthew 5. His point is that we can’t sin on the inside and think it’s okay since we didn’t sin on the outside. That is not equating physically having sex with someone to lusting, though it is acknowledging the common root problem of sin in the heart.
I think Divorce is a sin. It says in Malachi that God hates divorce.
Marriage should be for life. “Till death do us part…through sickness and through health….through good times and bad…” Think about what those vows mean. They aren’t conditional. They are really serious.
I think when you are saying your vows essentially mean, “I am sticking with you and you are stuck with me. I don’t care if I don’t feel “in love” with you, or if you get a debilitating disease that changes who you are, or if you wake up one day and I feel like I don’t know you anymore, or if you make choices that cost us dearly. I am sticking with you.” If that’s too intense for you, than don’t make that promise to someone.
Well, if we’re going to get picky, it says nothing about a woman divorcing a man
But then, if you’re going to get a divorce and you remarry, you will be committing adultery and therefore the divorce is warranted anyway, right?
Seriously, in Christianity, the whole world is a pick-your-sin situation … you can’t be perfect even though you’re commanded to be perfect… which really means you’re stuck. You’re going to sin. Pick which.
><;; i refuse to comment. XD
I may have actually somewhat changed my mind a bit after reading some more. I guess it was really putting some stuff together more than a complete shift.
I am more open to the idea of, say, an abused woman getting a divorce. Before, I was fine with her getting away from the husband, getting protection, etc, but I was against the actual divorce. However, I do think the actual “separating of the cleaved,” so to speak, doesn’t take place in a divorce but in adultery, in sleeping with someone else. I think now I’m more accepting of a woman who gets a divorce and doesn’t remarry, at least not before the abuser does.
On a side note, as a divorcee wife abuser, wouldn’t it be fun telling your new prospective wife that your first wife divorced you because of physical abuse?
And just an fyi, be careful with how you look at words that are translated in the English. They may carry connotations that the original wording didn’t. The ESV and NASB are pretty literal (though even at times they can get somewhat interpretive). We should be careful not to put words in Jesus’ (or Paul’s, or whoever’s) mouth.
Yes. It makes that clear… immorality or you’re stuck.
no. getting a divorce because your spouse abuses you, does drugs, or a criminal isn’t a sin.
Regarding LetMeGoToo’s recent comments, the Jewish women couldn’t just divorce their husband at the drop of a hat (to the best of my knowledge), so Jesus didn’t tell the women what he told the men.
Following your reasoning about divorcing and then remarrying (since the consummation of the new marriage will be grounds for divorce) doesn’t work for me. You wouldn’t drive yourself to the DMV to get your license. Do you think if an officer pulled you over he’d overlook it since you practically have your license anyway?
Just because we can’t be perfect doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. Knowing you’re going to fail at times in a diet doesn’t mean you should just eat whatever you want whenever you feel like it.
The word that has been translated into immorality, in its original Greek, is Porneia – Strong’s number 4202. It is defined as the following:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
Based on this definition of porneia, I don’t think abuse is grounds for divorce. It may be grounds for other things, like intervention, justice, protection, whatever. But it is not grounds for divorce.
Jesus is talking about sexual immorality.
The Greek word that was used that some translate “adultery” sounded something like “forniecia”
It meant all sexual sins not just adultery. That verse out of context just doesn’t work.
But the point is devoice is a sin except under extreme circumstances. And “growing apart” is not one of them
Ok Porneia sounds right
Yes…plain and simple…
I Corinthians 7:10-16 also has much to say on the topic.
While divorcing because of abuse isn’t condoned in the Bible, I’d still recommend getting out of the house as soon as possible. Especially if there are kids. Make your accusations public and insist on counseling.
Should we base our conduct on what some irrelevant guy called Matthew may or may not have said 2000 years ago, or should we think for ourselves and develop something called moral responsibility?
No! What about the poor kid?! Would you rather have parents living in the same house and at each other’s throats 24/7 or would you rather have them living in seperate houses WITHOUT them threatening murder?
Its all in the way that a person interprets the scripture…In the King James version it says (Matt 19:9) “…except it be for FORNICATION…” it does not use the word immorality. It couldnt be worded any clearer. God said DO NOT CHEAT. We seek a way to justify our sins, so we twist the words to alter the meaning… Yeah…divorce for any other reason is a sin. (Thank God for MERCY, GRACE, and FORGIVENESS!)
“no, not really. most times the divorce is for the better. not only for the married persons but for their children if they have any.”
Posted 2/22/2007 8:18 AM by BassGirl_1313
That is so wrong! My kids were so hurt (emotionally) by their father’s “mistakes”… AND because of it, THEY will pay for it [for the rest of their lives] by having to go without a lot of things (like 2 parents in the same home, someone to tuck them in at night, etc). They have to work harder then other kids (for example my 15 year old cannot go to after school club meetings which are REQUIRED by her school, because she has to babysit her siblings, and cook them dinner, help them with homework…the list goes on. I am paying for it- I have to work 2 jobs to pay bills on time…My “days off” (LOL) are spent cooking and cleaning… I have NO SOCIAL LIFE…I had to call in sick the other day because I hadnt seen them for 3 days…
The WORST part is the baby who got aborted because he didnt use a condom when he was with one of the other women…
How is this BETTER? This is NOT how God intended it to be.
*What he intended was for people to HONOR the COMMITMENT they made to the person they MARRIED.
“Well, if we’re going to get picky, it says nothing about a woman divorcing a man”
I’m not sure women had that option back then. I Cor 7:10 talks about a woman separating, while a verse or two later it talks about a man divorcing. Not sure what the legal difference was.
Considering that marriage is a legal state and not a religious one, no…it’s not.
CORRECT SPELLING AND PUNCTUATION PLEASE!!!!
It had to be said sometime…
Besides, it was easy for Matthew to say: he was a homosexual.
If we’re talking about Christianity and marriage then I’m not sure….
No. The problem is remarrying. Personally, I think some people who ARE married to each other shouldn’t be. The fact that I have this opinion doesn’t mean I’m not Christian either.
Why do people marry in the first place? Because they LOVE each other-
(1Corinthians 13:4-7) ”… Love endures through every circumstance…” If that is the case, there is never a need for a divorce… because a person would never need to cheat.
*What he intended was for people to HONOR the COMMITMENT they made to the person they MARRIED
simply: yes.
not so simple: well… that could take awhile.
What if the “left” person didn’t want the divorce at all, and was totally committed to the marriage, but the other person wasn’t committed to their vows, broke many of them, and up and decided they just didn’t want to be married anymore, and wouldn’t work on anything to save it? Is the “left” person doomed to the sin of adultery if they choose to find happiness in another marriage someday?
no. also abuse I believe is acceptable for divorce.
idk, if your husband is beating this shit out of you and your kids, i don’t think leaving the bastard’s a sin.
i’m not sure.. what if your spouse abuses you? would God want you to stay in that situation?
Fight Mental Illness Stigma
You don’t need to get a divorce to be separated from an abusive spouse. If there is abuse going on, the abused can take the children and leave for protection.
marriage should be about love
if its a forced/arranged marriage
or if the love simply isnt there
then theres no reason to stay together
I just broke it off with my boyfriend (we have a one year old) because he was extremely emotionally abusive and I was afraid for the well being of my daughter. I don’t think that’s a sin, especially since I waited a year and a half to leave him because I wanted to try everything in my power to make it work.
Sometimes it’s a dangerous situation.
people don’t hold marriage in high esteem anymore..it’s like,”yeah! let’s try it for awhile, and if it goes to shit, we’ll get a divorce!”
a…NO.
people were struck down dead in the bible for not following God’s laws.
I believe adultery and abuse are grounds for divorce…..hell, I even believe if the husband doesn’t take on his proper role in the marriage that there’s grounds for divorce. but just because they fell out of love? retards.
Wow, there are a lot of pretty strong opinions on this. I love the people who say divorce is a sin and when you take your vows, you’re stuck with that person forever, no matter what. Isn’t that romantic? In an ideal situation, yes, this is the way it should be. When I married my first husband I had every intention of being with him for the rest of my life. I also believed he was a Christian who was going to honor the vows he made to me. Turns out, both of those beliefs were wrong. A few months after our 4 year anniversary, he decided he didn’t want to be in our marriage anymore and he found someone else. I begged to go to counseling, I prayed and prayed, I did everything I could to make him stay but guess what? No matter what I did, I couldn’t make him stay. He told me he didn’t love me anymore. He told me he didn’t want to be married to me anymore. He even told me he acted like a good Christian because that’s what I wanted, so that’s what he became. Until you find yourself in a situation like that, I really don’t think you’re qualified to judge someone else.
What is your opinion, Dan?
Samsmom,
I don’t think anyone is judging anyone here. We’re just talking about what Jesus said. In this particular case, Jesus is saying “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” In other words, He is saying that marriage is “until death do us part.” It’s permanent. however, He does give ONE situation in which divorce is permissable, and that is ONLY when the marriage vows are broken – adultry. When the marriage vows are already broken, then the marriage is broken. In this case, the couple can choose to repair the marriage or to end it in divorce. This is the only case in which Jesus permits divorce.
Again, we are not judging, we are discussing his teachings.
However, if you are interested in life application, I would say, based on the description you gave, it sounds like your husband had already broken his marriage vows by committing adultry with someone else. If this is true, then you were in the situation that Jesus described and gave exemption for.
After reading a lot of people’s posts, I don’t think this is a black or white issue. A lot of people are in abusive situations or are walked out on, and then, divorce is understandable (or they don’t even have a choice).
I guess what makes me sad is couples who split up because their relationship has changed, or they don’t feel “in love” anymore, or they’ve grown apart. It’s not much of a commitment if you only stay when it’s easy or feels right, is it?
Here are some great thoughts from C.S. Lewis:
“Being in love is a good thing, but it is not the best thing. There are many things below it, but there are also things above it. You cannot make it the basis of a whole life. It is a noble feeling, but it is still a feeling… Knowledge can last, principles can last, habits can last; but feelings come and go… But, of course, ceasing to be “in love” need not mean ceasing to love. Love in this second sense — love as distinct from “being in love” — is not merely a feeling. It is a deep unity, maintained by the will and deliberately strengthened by habit; reinforced by the grace which both partners ask, and receive, from God… ‘Being in love’ first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. It is on this love that the engine of marriage is run: being in love was the explosion that started it.
Notice, it’s immorality, not adultery. That covers abuse and drug addiction, among other things. In other translations it says if the wife is unfaithful, which would mean not fulfilling the vows said when the marriage was begun. Same thing goes with a woman divorcing her husband. If he is not fulfilling the vows stated at the beginning, then he is being unfaithful. But this could all be avoided if people paid attention to the rest of that passage, which states(Matthew 19:10-12, New Living Translation) “10 Jesus’ disciples then said to him, “If this is the case, it is better not to marry!”
11 “Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. 12 Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” Its almost become a requirement of society that we get married or at least be romantically involved, but Christians need to realize that not everybody needs to get married.
Yes, unless one person out of the couple is a non-Christian and wants to leave…then we’re supposed to let them leave.
Relationships alone are challenging. I can’t even imagine how difficult marriage would be. I think that some of you unmarried ones should keep that in mind before you’re so quick to point the finger.
Uh, no.
It’s definitely not a sin anyway.
“immorality” is a broad term. Wouldn’t you say it is immoral to beat your wife? to participate in incest? to commit other grave sins against a body (since 1 Cor 18-20 states that the body is the temple of the holy Spirit)?
Perhaps you should ask what people think a “sin” is. There seem to be several definitions in use here.
Let’s go get some shoes.
YourOuterCritic: “Perhaps you should ask what people think a “sin” is. There seem to be several definitions in use here.”
That’s easy. A sin is when God says to do something, and you don’t do it. Or when God says not do to something, and you do it anyway.
I think its how you define “Immorality”…for example, I dont think its a very moral thing to do to beat your wife or abuse her in some way…therefore I would put that under immorality. Its possible to have a lot of grey in this area…not every circumstance is black and white.
I do not feel like it is a sin to divorce someone other than for adultery. There are reasons that are acceptable in my eyes whether the Bible says it is ok or not.
it is sin. buuuuut Paul also says that if you are wed to an unbeliever and that unbeliever wishes to leave, then let him/her leave. but it is not allowed outside of these situations.
The question has come up a few times: What if I’m the one who’s being divorced, even if I want the marriage to go on?
For ease of discussion, I’ll assume that the husband is doing the divorcing, and the wife wants to stay married because that’s usually what’s going on.
Here’s the short version: even if you were handed a piece of paper from a court saying you’re divorced, in God’s eyes you’re still married.
If the husband doesn’t re-marry and doesn’t sleep around, then there can still be an opportunity to recover the marriage. Once the husband and wife are reconciled, all they need is a new piece of paper from the court announcing that they are married again. In God’s eyes, it’s just the same marriage continuing that never got interrupted anyway.
If the husband does re-marry or does sleep around, then the unfortunate wife has grounds for a divorce because her husband has been unfaithful. Even so, she should not re-marry, she should remain unmarried. I know this sounds harsh, but God will give her the strength to do this, because after all it was God that commanded that she remain unmarried in the first place.
If the husband dies, then the divorced wife is freed from all her marital obligations toward her former husband. She may re-marry freely. (And for you cynically-minded, no that doesn’t mean that she can hire a hit man to knock off her husband in order to be free to re-marry. If David couldn’t get away with it, what makes us think that we can?)
Keep in mind that Jesus is the perfect example of a husband, because he is the bridgegroom of the Church. Does Jesus disown his Church just because sometimes we stray from the perfect path? No, Jesus is still faithful to us even when we are not obedient to Him. He stands there ready to receive us back once we confess and repent. So it should be in our human marriages, because the purpose of marriage is to serve as a living parable for Jesus and His Church.
Momentkeeper: “There are reasons that are acceptable in my eyes whether the Bible says it is ok or not.”
Thank you so much for putting into one sentence what is wrong with many of the responses to this question!
Do you see what you are doing? You’re elevating your own intellect above the commands of God. Why do I say that? Because even though Jesus gave us a command, you think you know better so you’re going to follow a command that you made up instead of what Jesus taught.
By doing that, you’re actually elevating yourself above Jesus, aren’t you? After all, by replacing Jesus’ command with your own, you’re saying that you’re wiser than Jesus, right? You’re saying that you know better than the all-knowing God.
For the Christ-follower, God is first place, period. Nobody’s intellect or reasoning is better than His. Nobody’s compassion is deeper than His. If any of us elevate our own thinking above God’s command, then what we’re really doing is kicking God off the throne of our hearts and worshipping ourselves instead.
Like I said in an earlier comment, I’m all in favor of discussing ideas and opinions. But once God has issued His command, the time for discussing what to do is over, and the time for either obeying or rebelling has begun.
most definitely yes.
like i said,everythings a sin. whats the point of breathing?
Two Points:
1. The word that is translated as divorce has only been described as divorce in this verse only. The word has been used in many other places in the bible, describing “to put away”. When the pharisees came to Jesus they were testing him and Jesus always gave answers in response to these tests. He would explain what he meant by this to His disciples, which leads me to my second conclusion.
2. Matthew 19:11 – The disciples said to Him, “if this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
3.God Himself divorced Israel.
There are many more prooftexts that can be used to explain divorce, however I think that when we do that we trivialize one big factor… Our Christ dying on the cross so that all us sinners have a chance of eternal life… How great is our God?
When Jesus states “when two become one flesh”, He is stating marriage. Does this mean that when you have sexual acts with someone you are married to them? It has been said that sex is the indicator of marriage, is this true? How does God determine if we are married? Sex or a piece of paper from the court house?
oops, three points..
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Yes, I believe so. But I also believe that sin can be forgiven…
Posted 2/22/2007 8:10 AM by x_iheartcoffee_x
Anything other than immorality….
immorality definition
n. pl. im·mor·al·i·ties
1. The quality or condition of being immoral.
2. An immoral act or practice.
immorality synonyms
noun
1. A wicked act or wicked behavior: crime, deviltry, diablerie, evil, evildoing, iniquity, misdeed, offense, peccancy, sin, wickedness, wrong, wrongdoing.
2. Degrading, immoral acts or habits: bestiality, corruption, depravity, flagitiousness, perversion, turpitude, vice, villainousness, villainy, wickedness.
then….YES.
It all depends on the reason, Dan.
only if that person re-marries or cheats on his spouce.
Yes (adultery would include incest, homosexuality, etc. – sexual relations with anyone not your wife). But I think that in situations of abuse, a woman may have to divorce her husband for her own and her children’ safety (merely seperating may not be enough protection), and that would not be sinful, if she did not remarry. (I don’t believe the Egyptian midwives were sinning when they lied to Pharoah to save baby’s lives – protecting human life takes precedence over other moral commands. And Jesus was also taking about men divorcing their wives and leaving them with no source of income – He was seeking women’s protection and benefit!)
Bloodtypo – obedience is very hard – was it easy for Jesus to obey the Father and die for our sins?
I agree with Jesus
“Do you see what you are doing? You’re elevating your own intellect above the commands of God. Why do I say that? Because even though Jesus gave us a command, you think you know better so you’re going to follow a command that you made up instead of what Jesus taught.”
Show me one single religion that follows absolute literal translations of the Bible. Show me that the Christian faith as a whole does not have its own beliefs. If every single person believed the same way then there wouldn’t be who knows how many branches of Christianity. Until everyone walks the same path and agrees that every verse in the Bible means the same thing in every religion or translation, then yes, I am going to be like every other religious branch of Christianity and deem what I feel is the correct course of action for my life and live by those choices.
This is one idea that bothers me so much…
First of all, the ONLY reason to divorce someone is because they cheated? Maybe it’s just me, but I think I might be able to find it in my heart to forgive someone for that if they were truly sorry….. I don’t think I could trust someone who beat me every night and molested my children. Abuse seems a much greater “rift” in a marriage than being unfaithful. Neither is desirable, of course, but there is an obvious difference.
So, no, it’s not a sin. I think there are other even more valid reasons for a divorce than cheating, so if that isn’t a sin, we can’t make a broad statement about other reasons.
I got one for ya..
what if the couple divorced.. then after awhile .. reconciled and married again??? Is it called fornication if this couple had sex with eachother inbetween the time they got married? Both were celibate. Until the reconcilation. .. do you think in the eyes of God they are still married? before the papers were signed for the 2nd marriage?
No, of course not.
People shouldn’t seek divorce for silly, stupid little things. But two people get married with the intention of staying together and loving each other together. There are a lot of ways it could just not work out. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I think this falls into the file of “Thank God, for Jesus.”
Yes.
probably. Everything is a sin according to y’all. I still’d ditch the bitch’s ass.
no.
Naive.
All of you.
That’s what they taught us in Catholic school….
no, not really. most times the divorce is for the better. not only for the married persons but for their children if they have any.
Posted 2/22/2007 8:18 AM by BassGirl_1313
I strongly disagree. I know lots of kids who are tremendously torn because their parents break up. If there is one they should stay together, it is because of their children, plus the fact that they are breaking vows before God and men.
Why would you even marry someone if you thought you might not stay together your whole life? Why can’t people speak marriage vows with sincerity? Why are people so selfish that they can’t think of anyone but themselves?
The divorce itself is not a sin. The trouble comes when many people want to remarry. Then, they run into trouble because technically, according to scripture, the spouse would have to be dead in order for them to remarry. Since I find myself between a rock and a hard place – separated, not even legally, I find it very difficult to read these passages and not start saying, “Yeah, but…” I’m still working on it. I don’t want to fight it, but I am having a hard time dealing with all the divorce passages. Check out Malachi.
I can speak as a child from a broken home that divorce was the only option for the happiness of our family. I don’t think that God intends for people to suffer abusive relationships or dangerous situations forever because of something written by a man. I know that if a man were hitting me or was cruel to me or my children, I’d get out, and I don’t think that God would expect anyone to stay in that type of relationship.
I agree with squeakysoul.
I think it means that since he will be sleeping with another woman its adultry, not that he commited adultry beforehand.
Yes it is a SIN….we have let the ‘world’ taint our views when it is right there in black and white….read your bible….
yup
Can we focus on the phrase, what God has joined together let no mn set apart?
What if God didn’t want them together to begin with? I mean the bible preaches teh whole. Man and Wife but what if the particular man and wife that got married were never meant to be?
yes, absolutely, and for those of you who want to apply “immorality” to lots of things, some versions of the Bible render that “sexual immorality” instead, making it much clearer.
“What if God didn’t want them together to begin with? I mean the bible preaches teh whole. Man and Wife but what if the particular man and wife that got married were never meant to be?”
oh come on. when ppl get married, God recognizes it as marriage. “meant to be”, as we see it, means nothing. nothing happens without God.
“what if the couple divorced.. then after awhile .. reconciled and married again??? Is it called fornication if this couple had sex with eachother inbetween the time they got married? Both were celibate. Until the reconcilation. .. do you think in the eyes of God they are still married? before the papers were signed for the 2nd marriage?”
once you’re married, God sees you as married until one or the other dies.
Podkidchristian: “obedience is very hard – was it easy for Jesus to obey the Father and die for our sins?”
Yes, obedience is hard, sometimes very hard. But it can still be simple. There’s a difference.
Adventureracing: “God Himself divorced Israel.”
Yes. The Mosaic Covenant was God’s marriage covenant with Israel. However, Israel was unfaithful to the covenant by bowing down and worshipping idols. God sent prophets to Israel over and over telling her to repent, but instead she killed the prophets and steadily slid into deeper and deeper abomination. Eventually God issued Israel a divorce, because she had gone even so far as to sacrifice her own children. Bone fragments recovered by archeologists tell us that some of the children were even old enough to understand what was happening to them. For that, God divorced Israel, and instead of protecting His people He brought invaders in to conquer them. That way, a new generation growing up under foreign oppression would understand that they couldn’t take God’s blessings for granted, and that if they expected God to provide blessings for them then they had to reciprocate and be obedient to Him. Thankfully, the lesson was finally learned, and the Jewish people have had almost no problem with idolotry ever since.
Momentkeeper: “If every single person believed the same way then there wouldn’t be who knows how many branches of Christianity. Until everyone walks the same path and agrees that every verse in the Bible means the same thing in every religion or translation, then yes, I am going to be like every other religious branch of Christianity and deem what I feel is the correct course of action for my life and live by those choices.”
There’s a big difference. Christians sometimes disagree about what something in the Bible means. But once they agree about what it means, they don’t sit around and wonder whether to do anything about it or not. After Jesus said, “Go to all the world and teach all nations”, did Peter say, “gee, I wonder whether we should go to all the world or not”? Did Nathaniel say, “well, let’s discuss the pros and cons of going to all the world”? Of course not. The apostles obeyed, because Jesus had commanded.
If we want to discuss whether or not Jesus gave a particular command, that’s fair game. Let those who say one thing and those who say something else each make their respective points and counterpoints, each pointing to Scripture for support. That’s actually the sort of thing that separates most Christain groups from one another. But once we understand and agree that Jesus commanded something, let’s follow through to obedience, and not elevate our own intellect above God.
yeah b/c a woman (or a man b/c there definitely some cases of that) who’s gettin her ass beat by her husband surely deserves to stay with him…oh and lets not forget the children who are being abused by that husband that can’t keep his hands to himself…sure the wife will see no need to leave him then….right? where in the bible does it say that a woman or child or family should endure that kind of bullsh*t? it doesnt. it says that we should love each other, protect and care for and guide our family. that it’s the husbands job to look out for the well-being of his wife and that he should put her on a pedastool. yeah i’m sorry but if the husband (or wife) doesn’t disclose or show this kind of ill behaviour until after the wedding, then he basically trapped his spouse and that’s just as wrong as a lie a cheater an adulterer.
According to the text… yes.
well according to jesus, i guess… but what about abuse? i think that should count too
The passage refer to fornication, which occurs before marriage not after. Thing is we are not going to be perfect, I am thinking that divorce is a last resort. I think a lot of people give up and say forget it, I no longer love you. That is not how God wants us to be, we are to love our wives as Christ loves the church.He gave his life for it and does not beat us up if we do not meet his needs. He loves us unconditionally, and proved it when he went through the cross.If we treated our spouses (as men of honor)with love then that is what is expected.Not so they will treat us with respect, and they will, but because we are loved.I may not agree with divorce but until I become without sin then I am not casting any stones.And I know that I will not be perfect till I am dead.Thing is God does not look at me as imperfect because I have Jesus’s righteousness covering me.As I said I am not perfect merely fogiven.I would worry less about things beyond my control and more about submitting to guidance of Holy Spirit to guide me to be able to avoid being controled by the old nature or flesh that I carry around as a corpse with me.I probaly confused some of you I hope not.
The passage refers to fornication, which occurs before marriage not after. Thing is we are not going to be perfect, I am thinking that divorce is a last resort. I think a lot of people give up and say forget it, I no longer love you. That is not how God wants us to be, we are to love our wives as Christ loves the church.He gave his life for it and does not beat us up if we do not meet his needs. He loves us unconditionally, and proved it when he went through the cross.If we treated our spouses (as men of honor)with love then that is what is expected.Not so they will treat us with respect, and they will, but because we are loved.I may not agree with divorce but until I become without sin then I am not casting any stones.And I know that I will not be perfect till I am dead.Thing is God does not look at me as imperfect because I have Jesus’s righteousness covering me.As I said I am not perfect merely fogiven.I would worry less about things beyond my control and more about submitting to guidance of Holy Spirit to guide me to be able to avoid being controled by the old nature or flesh that I carry around as a corpse with me.I probaly confused some of you I hope not.
YESYESYES!!!!! my husband and I are separated and he’s dating and fooling around with women and he has committed adultery and will continue to do so after we are divorced. I left him cause he was cheating when I had a change of heart and came home, he said NO……..and wouldnt let me and got him a whole new ritzy place with just him and his daughter.
SO!!!!!!!! now he’s divorcing me cause he likes black strippers…….. and wants to be on his own… I’m not leaving him. YES ITS SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we promised to God TIL DEATH DO US PART…. it’s a broken promise to God…. you think that’s right?????? uh uh.
A lot of people have been wondering about a Jewish woman’s role in getting a divore. In Jewish custom, the man and the woman would sign a contract called a ketubah ( I hope I spelled that correctly). This contract talked about what would happen IF a couple were to get a divorce. The ketubah was pretty much like our modern pre-nuptial agreement. It outlines who gets what after the divorce, and was made to protect women after their divorces (in the case that they happend).
Having said that, I do believe that Jesus has made it very clear what a marriage is (between a man and woman) and how long it should last (till death do us part). Do I believe that all marriages are perfect if they just follow this guideline? No. I believe that it’s difficult because we’re sinful people who have tried to make marriage all about us rather than about what it’s supposed to be: about God. Marriage is to paint a picture of what it’s going to be like when the bride (us, the Church) is united with her bridegroom (Jesus). And I gurantee you that when we’re united with Christ there will be no divorce.
That also doesn’t mean that I believe that if your spouse cheats on you that you should just divorce them and be done with it. I believe that Jesus opens the door for us to leave if we feel as though we can’t reconcile ourselves with the fact our spouse has committed adultery. I also believe, however, that Jesus would rather we bring that hurt and that sin to him and let him heal the marriage. Just because a door is open does not mean that it is meant to be walked through. At that point, it should be up to the people in that relationship as to whether or not to divorce.
Something else I’m going to say that won’t make me very popular, in the case of abuse or drug/alcohol abuse decision isn’t really about whether to divorce or not to divorce. I think the better question is one that should be asked in the beginning: should we marry or shouldn’t we. Except in rare occasions (and I mean RARE), I don’t see how abuse (physical, verbal, or emotional) is something that just happens after a couple gets married. That’s something that can usually be easily seen before a couple gets married. It is at that point that a person should stop his/her self and truly consider what a marriage what this person would be like. In the case of drug/alcohol abuse, I view that as “for worse.” If that husband/wife is going through that and needs help, they will need the support of their families.
But again, it’s nothing Jesus can’t handle. I think that we feel as though we’re just left here alone to figure everything out. Everything holds together under Jesus and no one can change except through Him. I will probably get so much flack for my last comments, but oh well. I stand firm in my Lord and Him only.
I also want to apologize in advance for the fact that I couldn’t format this comment better. I had it all nicely spaced out when I was typing it, but it wouldn’t stay that way. I’m also sorry for the misspellings. I tried really hard for that not to happen.
Yes. But make every decision prayerfully, including marriage and if it comes to it, divource.
1 Corinthians 7:15
No.