February 25, 2007
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Poverty
The gap between the rich and the poor is growing. The U.S census data report indicates that 16 million Americans live in poverty. Poverty is defined by a “family of four with two children earning less than 9,903 dollars.” “Deep poverty” is defined as an “income under 5,080 dollars a year.”
I can’t imagine how a family of four could even make it on 9,903 a year. Here is the link: Link
Do you really think there are 16 million Americans making less than 9,903 a year? (Bonus points: What can be done about it?)
Comments (124)
it’s a lot worse in third world countries, what about them?
i suppose that there are. what can be done about it… stop having children?
that’s just very sad…I know that this would never happen and I hate for it to be brought up – but celebreties make SO much darn money that it just doesn’t seem fair that hard working (assuming they are working hard) people make so little for their families. Maybe the minimum pay should be raised?? I think it’s going up to 8.00 in canada…
Take care.
*HUGS*
Maybe – America is rather large.
I can’t think of something that can be done. Don’t make stupid choices? Hah, that was a sucky response.
Having kids too early and dropping out of school could make that happen.
when i was growing up in detroit, our family of 6 lived off of around $3600/year.
i guarantee that we weren’t a minority as far as the povery factor goes, either.
Continue faith based programs that reach out to these segments of society will help. The corporate structures that are responsible for this imbalance as pointed out on this link could use some of the profits to help create jobs with other ventures – they will surely profit and those who want to work can. There is a huge issue with insurance poor persons that are forced into bankrupcy and to become homeless with even one medical episode. There are programs now available to employers that significantly reduce the cost of insurance – which helps the employer and employee and may eliminate this trend significantly – Google Zane Pilzner for more info or contact me. Of course stopping government waste and investing in the people they are to protect would be hugely helpful.
Yeah minimum wage worked so well, look at the stats since it was implemented
The other thing you missed that these are reported, taxable incomes. Somes of these families could be making a lot more money by working under-the-table jobs.
And, to fix this problem, it’s more of a question if they’re comfortable in their living conditions right now. If they have a completed paid off mortgage and a decent car that’s also paid off, then they still have money to put toward food and some luxuries.
If they are struggling to pay things, maybe some part of their local, state, or federal tax should go towards neccessities like, mortgage (everyone needs shelter) or food stamps (like they given money specifically for food).
But, let’s not forget: Money does not equal happiness.
End welfare.
wow I wonder what time it is in the US. writting to you from singapore dan! i doubt that.. I made over $6000 for 2006 and i only worked for 3-4 months as part time worker.
j
Yes.
They can work harder. There’s a lot of opportunity in America to make more money.
P.S. What about the 85% of Uganda that makes less than $350 per year? Maybe we should think about doing something about that.
I think a lot of the reponsibility lies with the very rich.
Without a doubt they are, which is pretty embarrassing considering our power as a nation as a whole. I had to watch this documentary in school by Robert Wrigh (or wright? or wriech?) and he was talking about the gap between the rich and the poor and how its somewhat of a parallel to the times of Rockfeller and Carnegie.
I don’t know what can be done… I’d suggest looking at other nations who have a much lower poverty line. And anyway, the definition for poverty is pretty specific. There are a lot of people who are “poor” but can’t be considered to be going under poverty. So in reality, I’m sure it’s much more than 16 million.
it’s a basic principle of economics that causes a rift between different social classes.
Lets say everybody was ‘rich’. Everybody would want to go out and buy all of the commodities they couldn’t afford before, right? The trouble is, there isn’t enough to go around, which is why certain things cost more than others. The most rare jewels are the most expensive, because there has to be some way of controling who gets it. A bum on the street who hasn’t worked a day in his life does not deserve it as much as a bright univerity student who’s been saving up for an engagement ring. The more expensive something is, in most cases, it is either more rare or in higher demand. You can’t just give money to poor people and expect them to live better lives. Within a certain amount of time prices will go up so that the scarce resources can be used more effectively, and the equilibrium of old will be restored. Nothing will change. It’s a very sad fact, but it’s the way capitalism works. Moving over to a socialist system would only take away the things that hard working individuals work for.
It’s pretty believable.
I think a lot of people are neglecting situations where a lack of income is beyond the family’s control, such as if a parent is severely disabled, etc.
I disagree with just upping the minimum wage. This is just requiring that unskilled workers be paid “more” (this doesn’t stay more for long), without aiding skilled workers (their wages stay the same while the system inflates), and without making unskilled workers skilled. I think it would be more beneficial to equip people for skilled labor by the time they are old enough to be taking care of a family.
every time I meet someone really poor, I find that they smoke and drink (and many have drug habits too). I can’t figure out how they can find money for those things, but can’t pay their bills.
And no, I don’t believe that many are making less than $9903. Perhaps some are selling drugs or prostitution and can’t claim the income. There are also a great deal that just don’t choose to work. I know this sounds harsh, but this is what I’ve seen first hand.
“I think a lot of people are neglecting situations where a lack of income is beyond the family’s control, such as if a parent is severely disabled, etc.” Posted 2/25/2007 8:18 AM by TheNumber357
at least someone understands that sometimes, it isn’t “laziness” or “a bunch of welfare bums who need to get jobs.”
I wouldn’t know if that number is right or not. I wonder who is included on the list. Anyone over 18? College students who work part-time for beer money? The numbers are certainly alarming.
If we wanted people to have more money right away, we could increase the welfare rolls, but that isn’t a long term solution. In the long run, we need more domestic jobs and more skilled workers. Minimum wage will never be a consistent living wage.
yes.
A stronger focus on education…cut prison spending(these guys do not need things like cable TV), socialized medicine…There are a lot of things we could do.
I do not understand how a family of four could live on that little money. I think a potential cure that will not work becuase Americans will not support it is to instill personal responsibility. Make people realize they are responsible for their circumstances. Get out of the blame society that we live in where my problem is always someone elses fault. Once you accept that, then you can work to improve your circumstances. The second prong of this is to support people getting out of poverty with job training including Vo-tech schools and GED assistance. Once they get that assist them with college.
The problem with simply raising the minimum wage is that in the family making under 9K now, no one is working 40 hours per week. 40*56*$5/hr=11.2K. We need to encourage people to work and to hold a job. We need to keep them from being punished for holding a job. I do not understand how a father could not work 80 h a week to provide for his family if it was required, but this requires a culture of self sacrifice and love which we do not have.
i-d-k
I’m currently living on less than that, but I’m just me, not a family of four. All the same I can see how they could do it.
–Get a place with rent of $350 a month or less. Such a place will be too small for a family of four by conventional thinking, but it’s doable. That makes your yearly rent $4,200.
–Don’t own a car. Live within walking distance of work and a grocery store.
–Keep your grocery bill to $50 a week or less. Eat lots of Ramen noodles and beans-and-rice.
–Pretty much, don’t buy any luxuries. Forget about new computers, iPods, cell phones, or any of that. Watch network television for your entertainment, using bunny-ears on a secondhand TV.
–Ration out things like doctor visits. Hope your kids don’t get sick much, because you ain’t got health insurance. Forget about dental.
–In the summer, wash your clothes in the bathtub and hang them on a line to dry. Those laundromat quarters add up.
It’s possible. It ain’t fun, and it ain’t right, but it’s possible.
It is what they show on their tax returns. But then there is a very large cash econimy out there
For the person who stated that all poor people drink and do drugs…
I think that U are forgetting that there are a lot of SINGLE PARENT families out there…and what about disabled people… or someone who has cancer… Not all poor people sell drugs or are prostitutes.
One thing to consider about these poverty statistics is that non-cash benefits like food stamps and housing subsidies don’t count towards the income figure. So a poor family living in what was traditionally called “Section 8″ housing could have an apartment completely paid for by government aid, and have subsidies pay for a large portion of thier food budget. If I didn’t have to pay for housing or food, I bet I could make it on 9 grand a year.
I grew up extremely poor as well. Like porcupinesol said, not all poor people are lazy. It is very believeable that this is the state of things.
BONUS POINTS-FEED THEM with table scraps from soirees of the greedy demonic rich who covet their possessions and their food and piss on the poor.
DUH.
A family can “live” on that amount of money, but it is not a great life compared to others here in the U.S. However, the survey doesn’t take a lot of factors into account, are these people ilegal immigrants? drug dealers? etc. I’m not saying that all people in poverty are these things, however there are factors beside them being poor Americans in place here. I am not sure what we should do about it but I can tell you what I think we shouldn’t do: raise minimum raise or increase welfare.
Maybe they could implement something like the One Campaign worldwide.
Our government has enough “miscellaneous” funds that with a few percent (probably less than five) they could totally wipe out poverty.
http://one.org/
Love.
yes, I think they can. My family is on the verge of bankruptcy and sometimes I drive my car on fumes so I can lunch money instead. It’s not that big of a deal really. We live comfortably but little pleasures are few and far in between. Small birthdays, small Christmas’s, hang drying our clothes, using a stove instead of a furnace and fans instead of AC… it’s not really hard so much as it is inconvenient….
and what can be done is all those guys on the list of the worlds 25 richest men can come and pay for my college tuition…. or maybe pay to improve the streets or shops in a neighborhood, maybe start a business with all that money so they increase the rate of employment in a really bad area… there are tons of ways people with money can make a difference… the sad part is that too many of them to selfish to think of it.
How weird. My hubby and I were just talking about this. I was telling him that if the classroom is any indication, then the middle class in America is soon to be virtually obliterated. I could write more, but I fear it would become either a dissertation or a tirade. That said…I’m out.
I heard from a missionary that in Africa, they have ads on TV wanting donations for the poor kids in the U.S.
For some, it’s what they were born into and they don’t know a way out. Some grow up thinking that everyone else should pay their way, take care of them. People get stuck in a self-perpetuating system.
Then, there are those who break free.
And others who won’t do anything with the helping hand they’re given.
Yeah, there’s a lot of poverty. I think that insisting those on welfare get some kind of education and job would help. And not get penalized while they’re trying to go to school, and take care of family.
I think that people who grow up in a sewer should be given an opportunity to relocate and help the rest of their families out, just like the ones who come over here for the sole purpose of getting up and running to bring their families along. I’ve seen many from Mexico and the Philippines who do that.
A few thoughts:
(1) We can’t lump “the poor” into one big group. Before we can solve somebody’s poverty problem, we have to ask why they are poor. Are they lazy? Are they undereducated? Do they have so much credit card debt that they can’t make progress on their outstanding balance? Do they spend their earnings on alcohol or drugs or hookers or lottery tickets?
(2) Most of the poor in America are better off than people in third world countries. Unless you live at ground zero of an urban gang warzone, you don’t wake up to gunfire. Even the poor in America have access to clean, drinkable water. Besides, there’s a ton of charity work going on out there.
(3) The comments about the cash economy are worth noting. Not everything being earned is being reported. Some money is earned “under the table”, like some nanny services, and some people have illegal occupations like drug dealing. Also, some people earn so much money that they can afford high-powered lawyers so find ways to hide the income (thus making their clients “poor” on paper.)
(4) We give out so much in welfare benefits that some people decide that they can’t afford to work. The money they’d earn from working a low-wage job doesn’t make up for what they’d give up in welfare benefits. Basically, we’re funding their early retirements.
(5) Solutions like increasing the minimum wage or offering a living wage won’t help. If the minimum wage goes up, the prices for things will also go up because the businesses that hire the minimum wage earners have to make up the difference somehow. If the grocery stocker goes from $5.15 an hour to $8.00 an hour, then the grocery store owner will have to increase the price of a loaf of bread from $2.00 to $3.50. So if the wages go up, the prices go up too and the poor aren’t any better off. The only people who are better off are the politicians who get to talk about how compassionate they are to the poor.
(5a) Besides, if the minimum wage goes up, all the other wages will go up too. Suppose you work with someone earning minimum wage, $5.15 per hour. You have a job that requires more skill and harder work, so you earn $6.00 an hour. Then the minimum wage goes up to $7.50 an hour. So now you both are earning $7.50 an hour, even though your job is harder. Will you stay in your harder job, when your partner has a comparatively relaxing job but earns the same as you? No. You’ll either get a lower-stress job for the same money, or your employer will have to offer you more to account for the greater skill and harder work required. So when the minimum wage goes up, everybody’s wages go up and the people at the bottom are still earning a lot less than others.
I’m not American, but I do feel for those who cannot earn enough for their family (I’ve got some American friends who work VERY hard, but their finances are just enough. Mind you, they’re not losers/druggies/alcoholics or whatever.)
But yeah, what about the third-world countries? Some starve to death. Some don’t even have running water.
I like what commenter said – a lot of the responsibility lies with the very rich in America.
it’s not up to the upper-middle class suburbanites to decide what the root of poverty is, as so many of these commenters have tried to have the authority to do. drug addictions, sex, dropping out of school… whatever, if you don’t know what its like, don’t say shit like that.
obviously it is the responsibility of the individual to try the best they can to budget well, etc, but our justice system says the burden of proof is on the accuser, so if you want to prove that all homeless people are lazy, go ahead. try.
Better education?
Oh, you bet.
Bonus: Education.
I think there are because I am one of them. Now, we aren’t a family of four, but we don’t make enough to get by. And our situation won’t allow us to make more at present.
I have to say, there wouldn’t be that many of us if it weren’t for the fact that the very entity that should be helping isn’t, namely, the church. I’ve taken some heat locally for saying that (I got a letter to the editor in the local paper), but it is true. I know that some churchES are doing things, but as a whole, the body of Christ is mostly silent on the issue of raising the standards of the poorest of the poor. And if that gap is increasing generally in the US, then it is also increasing in the church, and this should not be.
As far as what can be done, how about those who have more giving to those who have less. People aren’t blessed so they can horde it for themselves. To use an old cliche, they are blessed to be a blessing.
I believe it. I live on less than that, and I have 2 kids. I don’t smoke, rarely drink (I’m not going to say I don’t, because I have before, but it’s not a monthly thing), and don’t have any luxuries. Granted, my situation has changed some because I’m in a relationship, so I guess his income is also part of the household income… but me alone as a single mother? No way was I making more than that. I wasn’t even making THAT.
And this isn’t about lazy people on welfare who spend what little money they have on drugs or booze… this is the FACT. There is no money if you’re working minimum wage jobs. NONE AT ALL.
And let me tell you… there are a lot of people on welfare who ARE educated. Who HAVE jobs. Everyone has their little stereotypes about welfare recipients, but then that makes it so that they cover their eyes to the truth about it. Not everyone on welfare is milking the system, lying, stealing, and wasting their life.
I have TWO jobs and still wouldn’t be making more than $9000/month if it weren’t for Andy. I have both a high school and a college education. There are NO jobs except for minimum wage ones…
Everyone who isn’t on welfare who have their little opinions need to open their eyes. Just like celebrities think that life is the way they live it, people fail to see or CARE about what’s going on down the street from them. But they sure can open their mouths, can’t they?
Yes, its possible, however if both parents are working full-time minimum wage ($5.15/hr) jobs, that’s going to come to over $18,000. Those stats indicate that only one parent is working. Let’s not forget all the unreported tax-free stuff that happens on the wrong side of the law such as drugs, theft and prostitution. Don’t think for a minute that starvation won’t inspire people to do such things like that. Another commonality when you have a single mother on welfare is for her to have an unreported boyfriend living in the house who is kicking into the family income.
Dan, you made a slight mistake – Anyone living below $9,903 a year is termed “severe poverty.” In the lower 48 States (including DC), the poverty rate for a family of four begins at $20,000. Still that’s not much to live on at all. (Follow this link to an article on Wikipedia about Poverty in America, which includes a table which I grabbed this information from). The rates are a little bit higher for Hawai’i and Alaska, $25,000 and $23,000, respectively.
Still, this trend is growing. I think it is growing because of the growth of subgroups in the population for whom there have traditionally been limited employment opportunities. Another figure to consider: Across the board, 21% of all children, regardless of race or ethnicity, in the US live in poverty. Yet 46% of black children and 40% of Latino children live in poverty.
Yet, I think we are not smart about the way we class poverty in the US. I went to university at Indiana University, Bloomington. Last year an article, I believe it was in the NY Times, stated how incredibly high the area’s poverty rate is. Going off statistics alone, it appears that Monroe County (where Bloomington is located) has an “abnormally high poverty rate” yet the author goes on to say this is misleading given the high number of students at the University. Last time I checked, IU Bloomington has about 35,000 – 40,000 students attending classes on its campus. Many students do not have jobs or, if they do, part time jobs, which would leave them statistically below the poverty line.
The greatest problem, though, is not trying to assess poverty as it really affects people.
I used to feel that educating people would be a first step in reversing trends in poverty. Don’t necessarily give people a college education but some vocational training. However, America has been losing some of its heavy industry to other nations. This automatically cuts out a plethora of jobs that those suffering from poverty could benefit from. We are quickly becoming a services-oriented nation such as the nations in Western Europe. A lot of times, these jobs don’t bring in much income (e.g. a cashier at McDonald’s).
We also need to take a look at which job markets have the largest growth.
This is a serious problem. I wish I had some answers instead of figures.
“every time I meet someone really poor, I find that they smoke and drink (and many have drug habits too). I can’t figure out why they have money for those things, but can’t pay their bills.” posted by nicumom
REALLY POOR. Don’t SMOKE, Rarely DRINK, and have NEVER done DRUGS in my LIFE. I pay my bills. Sometimes it’s really hard to make the money stretch, but I accomplish it.
Stereotypes. Generalizations. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
Tangentially: the coffee cup is bothersome to the eyes. -_-
I work part time and I make more than that.
hahaha Dan you should read Peter Singer.
My boyfriend and I actually had a talk about this the other day, because he’s really big on ending welfare, whereas I (obviously) am for it. And yes, I got just as hot headed about it with him.
I still receive some food support benefits, and since I live with Andy, I also report him on my forms. I make sure to let him know that he’s actually receiving benefits too, and he’s like “Well then, get off of them…” It’s not that simple.
Does that number include how much government assistance they receive for being poor with 2 kids?
Maybe they work for cash and don’t pay taxes.
I don’t think we should do anything about it. Minimum wage hikes don’t help this, because just about the only people who don’t mind working for minimum wage are teenagers at their first job. One parent working full time making minimum wage (5.15) makes almost 9900 a year. Maybe the other spouse should get a job and double their income. Or maybe they should get a different job that pays more, or get a second job.
This country depends on the poor just as much as it does the rich.
I agree with nicumom. They should quit the lotto, cable tv, cigarettes, and booze and pay for things that matter.
Laziness is to blame for someone living like that. I don’t like giving my hard earned dollars to people too lazy to get off their asses and support themselves.
Instead of handing out more dollars to support their lazy habits, we should have stricter guidelines. If we take away the money they will figure out that they need to stop being so lazy and stop abusing the system. That way we would have millions of tax dollars that could be spent in places where it is actually needed.
solution: 500,000 estimated jobs at ANWR
I make a whole lot less than 9903, but I don’t have a family. As much as some people have been bitching about the minimum wage increase, it has definitely been a blessing.
I used to live in the Philippines, and there was almost no middle class there–everyone was either poor or rich–its scary to think that might happen here.
Stop having kids so damn early. They do it because we let them. We say sex is ok when you are young and we tell them this without educating them about what the consequences are. You know why? Because we dont know shit about anything. So they have kids and are then supported throughout their life by people like me. They live on food stamps and government housing because they chose to give away the one thing that means anything anymore. They spend their whole life like this because they never had to work for anything. Everything is handed out.
My disclaimer is that my opinion does not apply to all cases. Only the majority.
No, it’s definitely just a liberal conspiracy.
Some people brought up education. That’s actually a pretty good idea.. like in the UK, college education is free. Then again… it could be borderline socialism if you think about it. But I still think its worth a shot. Maybe if everyone had the ability to further their education, they would have better job opportunities.
yes sir. granted i am technically living in poverty. i make about 8k ish a year. granted i also am still on my parent’s insurance and have scollarship for school. and it’s hard for me. (i pay all the rest of my own bills)
however all the people that work w/ me….they are ‘grown’ they have kids all but one of them has 3 or more. and we all make about the same amount. i think the actual ‘bakers’ (i work in a bakery) make 1.50 an hour more than me…but in general let’s say they work 40 hours a week…that’s a whopping $80 more a month. that’s not a lot. and they have a ton more bills than me i am sure.
so yes…i do believe it. and then you look at our men’s basketball team coach. (coach calipari) and well…he IS going to get a raise at the end of this season b/c well we got another no.2 seed in the big dance (NCAA tournament…it’s a big deal). eventhough last year we got a no.1 seed….he makes like 15, 24 i don’t even know million a season (season is not even a year…basketball season btw not weather season)
so….just in memphis alone take that into consideration. our bakery staff has about 12 people and together we don’t even make a 10th of what he makes and there are 12 of us plus 10 of them have 3+ kids.
yeah i totally believe your report and my example is a HUGE scale down of just a small portion of memphis.
it’s sad.
i think we could stop it by supporting made in america type deals. i learned that in my MKTG class. companies are doing so much outsourcing to china, indonesia and india where labor is cheap (think 10 or 15 cents a hour). so there are tons of jobs (factory…which helps out for those who didn’t get the chance to go to college) being outsourced to other countries.
granted i’m thinking on a lower level…we can get these people educated as well but…assuming they don’t want that.
we can burn wal-mart to the ground….(they have a lot to do w/ it as well…there’s a documentary out there if you’re intrested i’ll find it for you and mail you the link)
it sucks. in america we want things cheaper…b/c we’re poor, but at the same time it’s a cycle. we keep buying the ‘lower prices’ but at what real cost right?
Golly Gee Goshers! I hope not!
Of course.
Actually tax the upper class – there is no way in hell they need that much money, and funnel that money into social programs to help educate those people and find them jobs.
The U.S. sould cut costs to help out with people in poverty.
Pointless or unnecassary things like, oh I don’t know..
The damn war in Iraq?
8 million people in the USA die each year because they are too poor to stay alive. It’s really sad. We go out and help other countries but we haven’t yet helped those in our own.
Well, funny_guydude, it’s nice to know that if our country was run based solely on your opinion, I would have starved to death around the age of three. My father beat the sh*t out of my mother, among other things, then she left him. I grew up dirt ass broke, on your tax dollars, because to this day, my mother is too ill (not to mention disabled) to care for herself, much less any children. My mother did not do drugs, drink, smoke, or play the lottery. She did not purchase prostitutes. We did not have cable television, and I did not have decent clothes. Hell, I barely had food, but the food I did have came from your taxes and food donation centers, even if I did have to prepare it myself at the age of four, and bring it to share with my mother at her bedside. And yes, I am grateful to the taxpayers that decade, and yes, I am thankful for the fact that I was somehow not taken out of my home and forced to go through years of hellish abuse and loneliness in a foster care facility like some others I grew up with.
Yes, last year I made barely $5,000 that year. Something to be said about how we live.
There may be people making that much money, but is that taking into account welfare and/or disability? Medicaid or Medicare? The fact is, the government is taking up the slack, and more specifically, the taxpayers. There are some people who actually, legitimately need the money, but I know PLENTY of people, many of whom are in my extended family, who are simply taking advantage of it and working the system so they don’t have to work. Maybe 1% of those 16 million people are actually going hungry – there is certainly not starvation and poverty here as there is in third world countries like Africa. Everyone, including those in “poverty” here in America are rich and fat compared to those starving in third world countries.
If people actually checked the REAL statistics instead of making their own assumptions, they would realize that more people are using the system correctly rather than abusing it. And whoever thinks that all people on welfare are sitting on their asses while you’re working for them is crazy… that’s not usually how it is.
Communism?
Some situations would be doable if the people got a little smarter with what little they had. One family could eat very healthy by shopping right and growing some of their own food…while another spends what they have on junk/fast food. Living close to employment whenever possible or taking a bus over a broken down car that needs constant repairs, insurance, tag fees, and gas. People just need to think smarter or there has to be programs put in place that would help people learn to do things smarter.
hmmm… stop having so many kids? although, 2 kids isn’t that much.
finantial aid… ask for a raise… see if you can get a higher paying job… simple things… i know it isn’t easy, but you can tryt
A very refined form of democratic communism that is.
Yeah. Min. wage.
YES. This is a growing problem. Even though they are employed, they are left to live on state assistance. With the outsourcing of the higher paying jobs a number of formerly middle class families in our area are now considered impoverished. I don’t know what the causes are in other parts of the country.
“I don’t think we should do anything about it. Minimum wage hikes don’t help this, because just about the only people who don’t mind working for minimum wage are teenagers at their first job. One parent working full time making minimum wage (5.15) makes almost 9900 a year. Maybe the other spouse should get a job and double their income. Or maybe they should get a different job that pays more, or get a second job.
This country depends on the poor just as much as it does the rich.
I agree with nicumom. They should quit the lotto, cable tv, cigarettes, and booze and pay for things that matter.
Laziness is to blame for someone living like that. I don’t like giving my hard earned dollars to people too lazy to get off their asses and support themselves.
Instead of handing out more dollars to support their lazy habits, we should have stricter guidelines. If we take away the money they will figure out that they need to stop being so lazy and stop abusing the system. That way we would have millions of tax dollars that could be spent in places where it is actually needed.”
First, I do mind working for min. wage. It makes me really angry that people assume we don’t care because we’re teenagers. Many of us work 35+ hours a week ON TOP OF school. Adults work but don’t go to school. We do a lot and should get paid more. The employers stretch us too far. A 16-year-old should never work 90 hours a week (granted, this was during the summer, but it is still too much none the less).
On min. wage in the fast food industry, people often aren’t allowed to work full time because the resturants will have to pay them overtime.
And DAMNIT, stop saying that they’re lazy! You obviously do not know anything about the welfare system, you are just listening to false stereotypes.Moron.
“hmmm… stop having so many kids? although, 2 kids isn’t that much.
finantial aid… ask for a raise… see if you can get a higher paying job… simple things… i know it isn’t easy, but you can tryt
Posted 2/25/2007 11:19 AM by ericvandermolen“
As if poor people (majority) have not already asked for higher wages and searched for a higher paying job. Most of what people suggest for them to do has already been thought of by them as well.
That’s sad, because, if ONE person works 40 hours a week, and makes minimum wage (5.15 an Hour) then they should be making at least 10k a year, not to mention that both parents could possibly work.
So I’m saying it’s probably the family’s fault they make that little.
End welfare.
Posted 2/25/2007 8:03 AM by Vicki_2
I agree. The church and Christians should be responsible for helping the poor, not the government. And if we would stop outsourcing to China, there would be a lot more jobs around here.
Again, nauseating the responses on here, which sadly reflects the rest of the nation–we spend a billion dollars a day in Iraq, on top of hundreds of billion building Trident submarines and whatnot, and the poor are told to live withing walking distance of a grocery store and not to buy iPods. We have dough to drop bombs on people, but buying a bag of groceries for a poor mother is immoral, somehow.
All this coming in a supposedly Christian nation, most often from the lips of Christians. Jesus wasn’t bogus, but too many in His following are filthy brutes and bigots.
Yes.
They can work harder. There’s a lot of opportunity in America to make more money.
Posted 2/25/2007 8:11 AM by XristosAnesti
Unless you have a degree in economics and know the area that they live in, shut your fucking mouth
Sometimes where people live they’re actually trying and being fucked over. Sure, there’s a lot of oppurtunity where you live, Sure, you’ve got a lot of money (judging from internet access and computer) but in some places there aren’t any fucking jobs.
solution: 500,000 estimated jobs at ANWR
Posted 2/25/2007 10:29 AM by Sacryon
Hah, actually I did debate a few years ago and the resolution was about oil, so I studied ANWR. ANWR would give us jobs, but it wouldn’t really give us all that much oil. However, there is plenty of oil in places like Canada, South America, and offshore. My case was opening these places for drilling, which would produce oil and lots of jobs. The problem is the stupid environmentalists who won’t let us drill.
All this coming in a supposedly Christian nation, most often from the lips of Christians. Jesus wasn’t bogus, but too many in His following are filthy bruted and bigots.
Posted 2/25/2007 12:10 PM by TheWhale
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. This is why Christianity as a whole gets such a bad wrap. Because too many Christians spout hateful comments and feel like they have more of a right than anyone else in the world to do so.
Here are some thoughts:
There will always be poor people.
Poor people in a capitalist society will have more than poor people in a socialist/communist society. As the rich get richer, the poor get richer. The gap may be very large, but the rich do not have their wealth at the expense of the poor. [Example: Kids in sweat shops live better lives than the ones who don't work. Otherwise, no one would work there. So, even if the rich boss is big and mean, he makes the lives of his employees better.]
Forced redistribution of wealth is stealing and will not fix things.
Poverty is a viscious cycle. Those raised in that strata have a hard time finding their way out. For a lot of them, it’s the way life is.
Not all poor people are lazy. Some are. Some wealthy people are lazy, too.
The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.
People who are not poor can see solutions better than people who are poor.
been there done that, worked our way out
though a solution on a mass scale would be to convert to socailism
i misspelled socialism sorry
Dan… Believe it… There’s more families becoming poor than families that becoming rich because many so-called companies from making cars to making bikes to even make clothing are overseas in order to get less pay with no benefits to the Chinesse, Indians and even Mexicans. Men and women who were working for 10, 20, and even 30 years and don’t forget about the newbies are left out in the streets by the Bush Regime, without no training, no educational tools, and not even a chance to get another job because they said the person is too old. And then Bush said, we’re having a great economy… my ass!
Also, regarding some of the previous comments, I’d hate to think that someone would consider Jesus worth following but would stop short because some of the people who claim to follow him are idiots. If he’s worth following, he’s worth following.
I agree, end welfare, and cease to hire foreign employs .. However, in fairness, there are circimstances which people find themselves in, which places them in compromising financial status.
And sadly, there is a gap, and we are gaining in the two classes of economies .. affluent, and poor. People don’t buy this, but it’s happening. Look around …
It pisses me off to read people blaming the poor. Many work two or three jobs and barely scrape by. We need a living wage in this country.
Read Nickel and Dimed, great book. A very smart, educated woman tries to get by on minimum wage around the country and is unable to do it despite scrimping and working hard. The wealthiest 1% are the ones getting pampered by the administration, not the poor.
No, I do not believe these statistics.
They are hypothetically using a family of four. However, those actually making this salary they are citing in this statistic are more than likely single, part-time entry level workers or part time workers such as students who are working to earn extra money as they go to either high school or college, live at home, etc.
I feel sorry for the family of three, with one children. Apparently they aren’t important enough to count
Yes, one person can be pluraized
I bet some of those people reporting that kind of an income are either independently wealthy so they do not have to work to maintain a comfortable lifestyle or they are making money illegally and are not reporting it. However, there are people out there who are living on small amounts such as that.
We get points?
Eat the rich!
yup
solution:
COMMUNISM! >:O
I can believe it and I have no idea what can be done about it.
Yeah, they could make it on that much but that is an absolute no frills lifestyle. No car, no television, no phone, etc…there are people who actually budget in this country.
We should fund education more. Educated people are more productive and earn more income. That would fix alot. Also, making stricter guidelines for welfare and other government programs would motivate people to pursue higher paying jobs.
For myself, and my two girls at home, we wouldn’t make it. We had to make some tough decisions in order to keep our heads above water. This year looks like it will be good. We also had the help of our home church group who kept us going during the “black days”. If it hadn’t been for the cuts we made, and the help, there is no way we wouldn’t have had to file for bankruptcy. People helping people, that is what it is all about.
Some people are poor due to bad decisions, and others are poor for reasons that really are outside their control. There isn’t a blanket, one-size-fits-all approach that will work for everyone who is poor.
So, charity should be distributed through qualified case workers. The people who really need society’s compassion could be given it. The people who make bad spending choices can be directed toward budgeting classes and such. And the people who are lazy could be told to get a job.
There aren’t many places where there is actually NO work at all. Maybe the work available is work that you don’t want to do, or work that doesn’t pay much. But at least it’s something. If it isn’t enough to make ends meet, the case workers I recommend above could determine that and help with the difference, since the person is actually trying.
Part of the reason there aren’t more jobs is that unions have won so many “rights” for workers, and those workers rights cost businesses so much, that it actually costs less to ship products all the way across the Pacific Ocean than to pay workers here in America. Believe me, as soon as it makes financial sense to bring jobs back home, businesses will do it. There is a constuctive role that unions play, but it’s too far. Nowadays, businesses need protection from unions more than workers need protection from employers.
Wow — that is scary !!
Right now – because my husband is out of work with an injury, and Im a stay at home mom, we seem to be at the door to being low income- in our area this opens us up to being available for alot of programs like WIC, Food Stamps, Help with heating bills - help with rent- Some thing called NORWESCAP, and some thing I really like -a federally funded program for pre- schoolers,( called Early Learning canter ) which will work like a preschool and have that added boost of helping the kids with social skills too.. !!
I know what its like for my husband to work nearly 12 hours a day and make an hourly pay of 15.50 an hour- that robs him from being with his family , constantally being at work to make the extra bucks which aren’t much any way, its like running on a treadmill -nothing is productive for our pocketbook !
Promote higher education, raise minimum wage, alter taxes and whatnot. Oh, and take away the government’s loopholes and crap for big business so we stop screwing over the people who don’t make millions of dollars. There’s so much that needs to be changed.
Sad, isn’t it?
haha, your not very good with the questions today. obviously if it was shown on the census then yes. and to be done about it, the easy way out would be to become a communist country. other than that, we obviously have to give to them, which is the same idea as a communist country only under the title of democracy.
Derek
It’s definitely legit.
Yes, I can.
One solution could be more government investment in education.
Nintendo invested 140 million dollars in research in 2002 alone.
The U.S. government spent less than half of that on research and innovation in education.
See a higher poverty rate coming up?
*dollars on research
Well, for one, we could stop pouring billions and billions of dollars into our military when we should be concentrating on educating the children in families of four that make less than $9,903 per year…
higher taxes for large businesses
raise minimum wage
BECAUSE
while people may get laid off at first, eventually, people will generally have more money, and when people have more money they spend more, thus creating more jobs.
lower state college costs
higher taxes for the rich
do something about outsourcing
get out of NAFTA and CAFTA, they exploit the 3rd world and america as well
Well, maybe there’s that many if you get to count 1 family of 12 as 12 individuals in poverty level.
Solution: Have them watch “in pursuit of happiness” then go out better themselves, and make more money.
I’m still not sure what will work..but there are many great suggestions here (besides those telling the “lazy” on welfare to get off their butts).
Some people choose to live on incomes less then 8,000 and they can do it. It is hard but possible. I think Churches instead of the government should reach out to those suffering in poverty. I think God has commanded individuals and the church to reach out not nessisarily the government. I know of several churches where I live that are making a difference reaching out to the poor also.
Its the children that suffer the most…esp. in homes where there is sexual/physical/substance abuse. Often the children live in dire neglect. There is need for a lot of love and help from others for sure.
There are pretty strict guidelines for welfare. At least in Minnesota. I know that in our state, we have a total of 5 years that we can receive cash assistance (food benefits and medical assistance can be continued), but after 5 years, you can no longer get cash. We also have only 6 weeks to find employment (if we’re not already employed) in order to not be sanctioned. I read in the paper the other day that Minnesota is one of the few states that has the most paperwork to fill out when it comes to welfare benefits. We have to fill out forms every MONTH, whereas most states have you fill out forms every 6 months or so.
I believe the census on this one. I’ve read similar reports.
What to do?
Take away fear. We’ve become complacent as a society, and fear success. When in fact when we realize the opportunities before us…so much is really possible.
How many people living in poverty are members of a family of four with two children?
Are they living on just that income? I mean, I think such a family would qualify for some welfare program.
trunthepaige made an excellent point about the cash economy.
Most definitely; in fact, we should keep in mind that this only applies to documented families, so the numbers are actually far greater.
As for what we can do about it, we need to restructure and emphasize education. There’s no easy way around it.
I see a lot of people see education as a panacea. While our education system could use improvement, we can’t all be doctors and lawyers. And besides, higher education is becoming less and less meaningful. When I was in elementary school, I was always told that I would need a college education if I were to make enough money to live. By the time I reached high school, I needed a master’s degree. And now, only a doctorate will do. So many bachelors’ degrees are worthless. They are extremely easy to earn; at almost every college you can find students who don’t buy the books, hardly study, and make good grades. It’s too easy. If we allowed all people the higher education (that they’re sooo eager to get), the standards would get lower and lower. That very thing is happening. We force kids who don’t want to be in school to stay in school for too long; they are a drain on the education system. Handing them (and everyone else) a college education would be disastrous. I appreciate the heart, but such a notion is simply naive.
I’ll bet there are that many people making that amount of money or less. My lazy ass brother is one of them. It’s pretty easy really, all you do is say “Mom, can I borrow [insert item of value here, be it money, car, food, etc]?” Then when Mom gets tired of you or is tapped out herself, you go “hey bro/sis, can I borrow [x]?” Then it’s “Hey [friend], can I borrow [x]?” After that it becomes “Hey pal [stranger] can you spare some change?” Also, you need to go to the unemployment office and get your weekly check from them. Then you need to file your taxes at the end of the year and claim all your kids. Since you didn’t make any money you have to get more money back than the majority of the population. Also since your income is low you need to apply for food stamps and section 8 housing. Because everyone should have the opportunity to pay $25/month to live in an apartment with similar square footage as someone who makes over $30,000 per year. It’s discrimination if they can’t.
Yeah I believe there are 16 million people being lazy, no good, pain in the asses who are living off my income taxes which is why I don’t ever get to see 12% of the money I actually EARN BY MYSELF.
Duh. The way you pose your question makes it sound as though you’ve never met someone so poor before.
Hi, I did like Ellen last night–so did my wife. She has learned to like Ellen. We used to have a hard time with life style preferences. Am I going soft?
We used to be poor. At least, we felt poor. We got married. 9 months and 25 days later we were parents. The honeymoon was wonderful. Then 2 more kids. Low paying jobs for along time.We went to day old bread store. Shopped at Thrifty/Salvation Army Stores. Drove old beat up cars. Got little help. I ran up a huge credit card debt. 4 years to pay it off. I guess we were better off than many in our country. I am now retired and live comfortably. I don’t want to get rich anymore.
Gobal warming. I guess it is true. Many trees in my neighborhood are growing new leaves and blossoms. We live in Central California.
Maybe my Souther Baptist friends will be correct–about the Rapture. Then I won’t have to take my heart medications at great expense.
God bless you all. I am not necessarily serious.
Frank
I couldn’t find the proper statistics on the Census website, but I’m pretty sure the poverty statistics on income do not include government subsidies. These make life livable in spite of low incomes.
To truly fight poverty, the most important step to take is to vastly improve education at the bottom in this country, we need to do it now, and we need to do it as early as possible in the education system. That will be a big step towards reducing poverty in the long term. That being said, relief for the worst symptoms of poverty would also be noble. Increasing more effective government anti-poverty programs like the EITC rather than more popular but less effective policies like the minimum wage would be good ways to go about that.
i can definately believe that. it took my dad 6 months to find a job after he lost his. unemployment is increasing. even my mom who graduated college with a degree is unable to find a job that actually pays well for all the hard work she does.
I wouldn’t say I grew up poor, but I grew up in a family that was so over their heads in debt that I didn’t ever ask my parents for money. When I was 13 I spent the summer working 8-5, 5 days a week, baby sitting so that I could have my own money and I wouldn’t need to ask my parents. I realize that there is a difference between being deeply in debt and simply being poor, but I think handing out money to either kind of person is a waste. The rich shouldn’t be forced to pay for other peoples mistakes, or lack of work ethic. No matter how much money you give to my parents, they will probably always be in debt because that is their way of life. And I kind of believe the same thing for poor people.
I don’t know if anyone saw the tv show where they gave a poor guy off the street $100,000. They followed him to watch what he did with it. He bought a new truck, bought all kinds of stuff for other people…he spent it all in a very short period of time. He didn’t buy a home or any kind of shelter for himself. At the end of the experiment he was actually worse off, because he owed $2,000 to a credit card company and had no money…so he was actually -2,000, where before he had just been at zero.
Welfare should be a short term solution, not a long term one. I know people who have been on it for years. And I have a member of my family that went through a hard time and needed it for a few months, and then got back on her feet and doesn’t need it anymore. There are a lot of problems in the system, but I don’t think that lack of funding is one of them.
How the heck a person can make under 10000 a year is beyond me. If you work a full time job at a gas station, in most places you’ll make more than that. I take home enough to make 15,000, and I’m going to school full time too. All you have to do is show up to work, and work kinda hard. I definitely believe that there’s a good majority of people who are in poverty due to their own inaction.
Yes there are, poverty is the biggest threat to our society. More than AIDS or the flu, in developing countries people suffer from poverty there too but we need to focus on our own country. To help? Donate your time and money to shelters and increasing the minimum wage. Though increasing the minimum wage would make inflation higher, it would still benefit workers and encourage more to work. Most just need help finding a job, when you’re homeless you can’t apply for a job if you don’t have a residental home.
I think it is possible. My mother raised 4 kids on 15/16 thousand a year as a single working mom.