March 13, 2007
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Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Part 2
The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Peter Pace, said that homosexuality is immoral in an interview Monday with the Chicago Tribune.
He compared homosexuality to adultery. He was answering a question about the military’s “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” policy. The policy allows gays to serve as long as they keep it private and “don’t engage in homosexual acts.”
Gen. Pace said, “I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way.” Here is the link: Link
Despite all of the uproar about his statements, I am not surprised that this is what he expressed. It appears to me that his statement is consistent with the policy of the military. The military has a policy that essentially says “you better not admit you are gay or get caught in a gay act.” So the official position of the military appears to communicate that the military believes that there is something wrong with homosexuality.
Is homosexuality immoral?
Comments (195)
First!
tough question. I am not going to the be the one judging (isn’t that a cop-out answer)?
Shouldn’t those without sin should throw the first stone?
Hmm, so it is ok for a man and a woman in the military to get “caught” in a heterosexual act?
No.
yes it is, but everyone has to do what they must and I don’t have a problem with it so long as they’re not shoving it down my throat.
Them who serve their country deserve our respect, gay or not, straight or not. It’s a matter of what you do that defines you. But gayness is sterile by nature and thereby wrong by nature.
Akania.
No… it’s just the way some people are. Homosexual people can do immoral things like anyone else, but homosexuality in itself is not something they can help. They can’t change who they are, and I think it would be wrong to try.
And I support the military completely, and have the highest respect for men who do that… gay or straight. I understand why the military feels the need to take the stance they have on the issue, even if I don’t agree with it.
Well he argues a good point from a religious view. If religion recognizes marriage as only between a man and a woman and adultery is when you have sex with someone other than your spouse, then two men or two women having sex with each other would be adultery. Technically you could argue that sex outside marriage with anyone is adultery, too, since you are having sex with someone other than the spouse God intends for you to be with. I hope that makes sense…
There’s a reason why it’s called homosinuality
Kidding, I don’t think so.
Is heterosexual promiscuity immoral? It ain’t no one’s business.but the two people involved. Well, if it’s an orgy… This asshole needs to mind his own business and keep his nose out of other’s sex lives. The man probably hasn’t had a decent fuck in his life.
Yeah, more immoral than divorce, alcoholism, sexual abuse, swearing, or pretty much anything else… Just look at the difference in the way many churches treat these problems and the way they treat homosexuals.
no
It’s not our place to make that decision.
No. It is biological. God made gay people.
Given the church and their track record on this issue I would find their position highly hypocritical if they judged it to be immoral. I served in the military and as much as I believe people’s sexuality is their own private business I can see solid arguments for keeping the current ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy in place…
No. And I’ve got multiple arguments to defend my point.
But I’m not feeling well, so I’ll not take the time to outline them.
I personally think it’s wrong, but I think the church has bigger issues it should be focusing on.
(Sorry if my comment is confusing, I’m right out of bed)
Uhh…I don’t want to touch this one.
But I’ll say this: homosexuals who want to serve their country should NOT be denied the opportunity, first off. But really, regardless of what I think about homosexuality, they are still people and I don’t understand why no one gets that! It doesn’t matter if you think homosexuality is wrong or not. They shouldn’t be persecuted. Like said above, “shouldn’t those without sin throw the first stone”? People religious and not (and I am very religious, mind you) say homosexuality is wrong and then persecute these people, but if we’re going to deny rights to every person that does something wrong out there, well it’s obvious that includes every human being.
What I’m trying to get across is that it’s not our job to decide all of that. It’s our job to be loving people, and remember that every person makes mistakes. God will do what He will do, but last time I checked none of us have the right to say “You’re a sinner in God’s eyes, I’m going to deny you of every right.”
Yes, and unnatural. If we were biologically designed to have sex with persons of the same gender then our reproductive systems would operate in such a way as to allow procreation through homosexuality (as is common in some reptiles). All arguments of faith and morality aside… it cannot be denied that the science clearly demonstrates we are “set up” to procreate with members of the *opposite* sex. I find it very amusing that those who cannot comprehend this are often the same ones screaming about how evolution is fact and faith is false. Evolution implies that the only purpose in life is procreation of the species. Which clearly doesn’t work if you are confused and having sex with members of the same gender. Oops, explain that one please… or can you?
The double-standard really cracks me up… No, it’s not ok to be homosexual… BUT if you’re a heterosexual male and want to harass or even rape women in the military GO AHEAD! That’s totally fine with us!!
Ugh.
Don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath waiting for a logical response…
Yes. Simple evidence? Two men don’t fit together. Two women don’t fit together. God didn’t intend it that way. I’m not saying that I hate homosexuals or even that I’m better than them. I just happen to think that the homosexual lifestyle is a lifestyle of sin. I have other sins that I deal with, and I have to turn them over to God all the time praying that He’ll help me with them.
Mightymarce, you crack me up. There are clearly *laws* in our society against rape and harassment. I think you are changing the topic because you can’t come up with a logical way to defend immorality.
oh, and therefore, I don’t really know that it’s the military’s place to kick someone out because of it, even if it is immoral, if someone wants to fight for our country and has worked hard to do so they should be allowed to.
yes, it’s immoral, but so is heterosexual promiscuity and adultery.
It is a sin (sodomy) but I am not going to judge those who commit it.
I dissagree with you about the military’s policy. I don’t think they should allow sex between their troops/officers/whatever of any kind. Too many women get pregnant in the navy because it’s okay for the men to just sleep with them and whatever. They should be doing their job, not foolling around. One would get in trouble for having sex at a normal office so I see no reason why people should not get in trouble having it in the military.
I’m sure that General Pace had sex before marriage, which is also a sin, so I see no reason why he should be judging people.
Cheers,
m
I think so, but this is America. I don’t know many gay people who want to play with guns though.
Homosexuality, rape, adultery and sex outside of marriage are all sins. I agree with Gen. Peter Pace, “I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way.” There is no policy that I know of in the military that condones rape, adultry or sex out of marriage.
nope!
IT IS IMMORAL IN MY BOOK…BUT IT IS AN INDIVIDUALS RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT PATH THEY GO DOWN.
Yes it is and as others have noted, lots of things are as well.
For some reason though this general would not be in any trouble if he had call adulterers immoral. Homosexuals have a very strong lobby. Lots of money they probably get big cash donations from the makers of “Depends”
No
Homosexuals have a very strong lobby. Lots of money they probably get big cash donations from the makers of “Depends”
Posted 3/13/2007 8:33 AM by trunthepaige
I’m sorry… I think that was uncalled for.
yes, it’s immoral, but so is heterosexual promiscuity and adultery.
Posted 3/13/2007 8:23 AM by TH1SL1F3
No its not immoral.
just because you don’t like it doesnt make it immoral.
Theres nothing wrong with any of my gay friends or me (cuz im bi)
Countries, like individuals, have the right to defend themselves, and I too respect those who risk their lives and limbs in defence of their country, but war is not desirable. Considering that historically armed forces have seldom been employed for defence alone, wouldn’t General Pace be better employed musing on his own false position? Surely the taking of life is more serious than any form of consensual sex, which latter is essentially a private matter?
I will stick to only the subject you posted today. Yes, according to God’s Word it is immoral. If you want to read at least one section of where it says it, then read the book of Romans, chapter 1, verses 18 through 32, and chapter 2, verses 1 through 16. If you just stick with that you will have a very harsh picture of God (even though He has to be that way against sin), but if you want to continue on and get the full picture then read on through to the end of Romans chapter three.
I do not judge. We all commit sin every day of our lives. The fact that some might have what we would consider a huge sin, is the same in God’s eyes as if we were gossiping, or eating too much, or coveting our neighbor’s new car. God’s Word is there for people to read. No one else should have to say a word.
In regards to the military – NO ONE should be judged by anything other than their capacity to perform the job that is set before them. I would think that is what the military would be concentrating on – not their personal lives. If their personal lives interfere, or show misconduct in any way with their job performance, then the military has the right to step in and deal with any problem – heterosexual, bi-sexual, or homosexual.
Yes.
Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin.
Morality aside, it doesn’t really make sense either, at least from a procreation (which is the main purpose of sex) stand.
“I’m sorry… I think that was uncalled for”
No its not, that is what happens to relatively young homosexual men. Their favorite activity does that to them. Alone with lots of other things that make for a short sick life
you know, if it weren’t so early in the morning i’d seriously tell off all the fuckwit idiotbrians who think their moral upbringing is superior to anyone else’s.
unfortunately, i’m too tired for arguments, yet alone arguments with idiots.
no. homosexuality is not immoral.
No its not, that is what happens to relatively young homosexual men. Their favorite activity does that to them. Alone with lots of other things that make for a short sick life
Posted 3/13/2007 9:03 AM by trunthepaige
I meant within the confines of this discussion–I was not saying that doesn’t happen.
As much as being black, autistic, blue-eyed, blood type A+, short, or heterosexual.
When will people open their minds. It’s genetic. Havent enough doctors proven it that we can finally beleive it. It’s a genetic trait!
riri_maggie
The fact that sodomy is physically damaging might just relevant to the military and self destructive behavior does tend to be immoral. Seems no one likes to talk about the results of these “harmless” personal “preferences”
“Havent enough doctors proven it”
Sorry they have proven the that its not genetic.
The fact that sodomy is physically damaging might just relevant to the military and self destructive behavior does tend to be immoral. Seems no one likes to talk about the results of these “harmless” personal “preferences”
Posted 3/13/2007 9:17 AM by trunthepaige
I’m sorry, my comments were referring to you making jokes about adult nappies… I just found that a bit unpleasant that’s all.
Cheers,
m
If you come to my site and rant about this, but have friends lock on so I can’t reply to you, I will immediately and permanently block you.
“He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone….” John 8:7
But yes, I do believe it is.
Yes. Both the acts of homosexuality and adultery are immoral.
And that’s not a judgement, its a recitation of written law.
yes, it’s immoral, but so is heterosexual promiscuity and adultery.
Posted 3/13/2007 8:23 AM by TH1SL1F3
i was going to write the same comment but they beat me to it…so i will agree. and not living life following the ten commandments is immoral.
btw: i struggle with sin everyday…without Christ i’m an immoral person.
I think the real question is; “Should gays and lesbians be allowed to serve in the military?” I would have to say “No” to that question.
I think the real question is; “Should gays and lesbians be allowed to serve in the military?” I would have to say “No” to that question.
Posted 3/13/2007 9:39 AM by typo77
i’m curious as to why the fuck not.
no.
why to people say it’s unnatural?… … and two men do fit together? If two people love eachother, they love eachother.. I don’t know why people try to stop that.. we have better things to worry about such as the increase in divorce rate. we spend all our time stopping people that truly love eachother from getting together and are hardly working on the fact that most hetersexual marriages don’t work out is beyond me.
I don’t see why some people don’t realize that sex organs weren’t created soley for reproduction… they also were created for pleasure. one part of the female, has no other use BUT to create pleasure. our hands have more than one function.. so why can’t our genitals?
.. and anyways. homosexuals don’t choose to be homosexuals. they just are.. they had no choice in the matter.
Yes.
It is not biological.
Adultery and divorce are immoral . . . and I think it’s sad that the Church has abandoned those causes.
My pastor gave an interesting sermon this week that maybe you would find interesting.
She talked about the idea of repentance, and how everyone assumes that they need to be forgiven of the basics, you know, ten commandments that sort of thing. But the things we REALLY need to repent of are judging people, not being as philanthropic as possible, hurting our planet and watching as others destroy our planet.
Just thought maybe that would be relevant in this context.
One last thing, I swear.
I beleive that God created love, and that God is love.
How could an act that does nothing but show love be immoral?
Stealing is immoral because you are taking something away from a person
Adultury is immoral because you are not being truthful with your partner
Lying is immoral because you are not being truthful with anyone.
How can homosexual love be considered a sin? It is unlike all other “sins” which hurt someone. Homosexuality doesn’t hurt a soul (and please don’t make this an AIDS thing, because heterosexuals can get AIDS just as easy as homosexuals).
Yup
I think the real question is; “Should gays and lesbians be allowed to serve in the military?” I would have to say “No” to that question. Posted 3/13/2007 9:39 AM by typo77 i’m curious as to why the fuck not.
Posted 3/13/2007 9:41 AM by Kestryl
Ditto. Why not?
Yes it is immoral….but so are a lot of other things. Just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean they aren’t human and you don’t love them…..you just don’t agree with them and their choices. If you believe in God, which I do then the bible clearly states it is immoral.
Thanks Building a Mystery….I had never thought of it from a stand point other than religion.
First of all, gay people aren’t human. Problem solved.
yes it is immoral, and rape is never allowed in the military by the establishment, certain immoral individuals might allow it, but the government punishes it
Homosexuality: The Gateway Sin.
God invented the asshole for gay men.
I agree with the above three. Thislif3,griphenix, and building a mystery.
I think that it’s just wrong but it’s not up to me to say if it’s immoral or not
urg… YES, its immoral – and it should be seen as a sin. I have already seen on tv some people having INCEST, they use the new openness and awareness to condone this. Now, INCEST is taboo in almost every society but a few months ago i said that the acceptance of homosexuality would lead to this and also beastiality. People can simply use all(or most of) the reasons homosexuals use to condone what they are doing.
now, i am aware that most of americans are begngining to change their minds about homosexuality, so im likely to get tons of messages or comments. In truth, homosexuality and bisexuality are still only practiced by right below 10% (together) of americans.
Anyways, i compliled a long blog a while back that express my opinions. if you want to comment back – read my post first or i will not listen or reply to you (this is cause people like to spout stuff before they hear my side of things).
http://www.xanga.com/Doubledb/556867184/my-view-on-homosexuality-read-and-comment-or-die-lol.html
laterz
Daniel (doubledb)
uhh no? how is your orientation, something you were BORN with, something you CAN’T HELP, immoral? what’s immoral is how these dickheads think that just because someone is gay that they shouldn’t have as many rights as everyone else.
somehow i think that half the people who say its immoral fail to educate themselves on the meaning of the word.
for the retards:
immoral (adj): deliberately violating accepted principles of right and wrong
being gay isn’t DELIBERATE, and nobody said that being heterosexual was the RIGHT choice.
dumbfucks.
and guess what?? religion WAS NOT a part of that definition was it? so all these people reciting lines from THEIR bibles should just SHOVE IT.
Well, there’s a loaded question.
I don’t think it’s immoral to be gay (aka, be attracted to the same sex) but I do think that it is immoral to act upon those inclinations. And I agree with the previously mentioned statements, that it is just as immoral as having hetero sex outside of marriage.
Yes, it’s immoral to have sex with members of the same sex.
Acutally, trunthepaige, soldiers can still be charged on grounds of adultery in the military, so it is another immoral behavior that is at least formally still sanctioned. I think I heard recently of soldiers being charged on adultery grounds so it is still done, though I couldn’t quote you comparative numbers between that and being charged on homosexuality grounds.
Yes! Homosexuality is immoral. Some people may be disposed to such actions but that does not make it acceptable. Same with promiscuity, it is immoral even though some people may be more disposed for whatever reason to such actions.
Oh, please. If people say that we are meant to reproduce (woman), what about woman that are unable to reproduce (infertility). Some men are sterile. We are all made differently. Usually those that cast the first stone are the most immoral.
No. However, it is immoral to judge other people, when there is no one being hurt in any way.
Hah, god you’re all a bunch of morons.
I hope someday you make friends with someoned and it turns out he’s gay and TOTALLY fucks up your worldview on that shit.
Assholes.
what’s wrong with a dick up the arse? sheesh!
In this day and age of having trouble retaining and recruiting, you’d think it wouldn’t matter to the military. However, your question was do I think homosexuality is immoral and I think in some ways it is. In the religious sense it is in the reality sense it’s no more immoral than adultery, lying, stealing etc.
All comments left on unrelated posts on my site have been deleted. You are welcome to re-post them in the thread I have started for this topic.
http://www.xanga.com/Building_A_Mystery/576618397/general-pace.html
yes
NO being gay is not immoral. That is your sexuality not your actions. Child sexual abuse is immoral.
yes, the act is immoral.
i am so sick of this. people scream “take a stand, follow what you believe” so we take stands. we say “this is wrong. i believe it is sin. God condemns it.” and then suddenly it becomes wrong to take a stand. suddenly, it becomes wrong to express our opinions. it becomes wrong to believe in what we believe. and we are horrible people, evil Christians. they scream that we are hypocrites. they scream and beat us down. what happened to “that’s great for you, but it’s just not my thing”? what happened to “tolerance”. the meaning of tolerance has been twisted and mutilated into “accepting people and their beliefs before they walk in the door” that’s not tolerance. tolerance is putting up with something you don’t agree with and letting things go instead of trying to change them, not accepting them.
Yes to both counts of what the general said. Both are immoral.
yeah. But then, so are we all.
no.
our society has this issue with calling things that are different “immoral” or “wrong” and occasionally “stupid”
I dont think it immoral at all. It just is the way some people are and they cant help that. I dont think we should condone it, yes i may not like them doing anything around me but it is not by any means immoral.
Homosexuality is a natural occurrence. The fact that animals not normally considered possessing sentience engage in said activity should speak for the fact that, if the world was created by a god, he must have chosen to create homosexuality as well. For humans, it might be described as a choice like any other sin, but why would animals incapable of such conscious choice ‘sin’, if it was not a natural action? (See: Bagemihl, Bruce. 1998. Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. New York: St. Martin Press.)
Aside from that, though, the Biblical objection to homosexuality is hypocritical, because those who condemn it do not condemn just as vigorously other prohibited behaviors such as wearing clothing made of two kinds of material (Lev. 19: 19), trimming or shaving sideburns (Lev. 19: 27), getting tattoos (Lev. 19: 28), and charging interest (Deut. 23: 19-20). People who condemn homosexuality do so not because the Bible tells them to, but, ultimately, because they want to. People who condemn others should first examine the morality of their own judgments.
oh yeah and what the hell happened to equality shouldnt homosexuals have the same rights as us heterosexuals or does it just seem that the government likes to ignore the constitution or find ways around it. Oh yeah and it is immoral for people to condone things that other people cant help like homosexuality. Oh yeah and for all you religious people who like to use the bible to back up why you think homosexuality is immoral, well you can just take that bible and shove it up your ass.
I just wish people would get over themselves. The holier than thou attitude really starts to get on my nerves.
well – the act. Not necessarily the inclination.
Methinks he protesteth too much. Look at his face. He’s a friend of Dorothy if ever I’ve seen one.
In reference to the heterosexual couple incapable: Nature deemed them to be that way, their genetics, their accidents, all deemed it to be so.
Gays do it by choice, it is their choice to deny nature and engage in sterile acts.
A better argument for you to use would be if Oral Sex by heterosexuals is just as immoral.
And again, I have nothing against gay people, love who you want…but it is the action that is immoral.
Ta.
Everyone and everything is tainted! But we should try to accept others and not throw them under the bus for their actions when ours is ten times worse!
I think I’ve said this before on a related topic but…
If you’re straight, you don’t have room to talk as to wether it’s a choice or not. You just cant know.
To quote THISLIF3 “Yes, it’s immoral, but so is heterosexual promiscuity and adultery.”
One last thing, I swear.
I believe that God created love, and that God is love.
How could an act that does nothing but show love be immoral?
Stealing is immoral because you are taking something away from a person
Adultery is immoral because you are not being truthful with your partner
Lying is immoral because you are not being truthful with anyone.
How can homosexual love be considered a sin? It is unlike all other “sins” which hurt someone. Homosexuality doesn’t hurt a soul (and please don’t make this an AIDS thing, because heterosexuals can get AIDS just as easy as homosexuals).
Posted 3/13/2007 9:57 AM by talk2Ben
That’s exactly what I was gonna say.
But y’know what’s REALLY immoral, and goes on all the time in the army?
Killing people.
(And killing does fit the definition of immoral, because it is wrong to kill someone.)
It’s nice to see a public official finally take a stand on the morality of homosexuality and call it what it is: immoral. It’s way better to take a solid stance than be wishy-washy and not commit to an answer.
Yes. First of all, the Bible explicitely states that it is wrong. Secondly, human bodies just aren’t made that way. A woman and a man fit together naturally, because they are made that way. A man and a man don’t fit together naturally. A woman and a woman can’t fit together. I’m sorry to be graphic like that but it’s true. It’s anatomically incorrect to be a homosexual.
Ignorant and blind faithmongers…
No, it isn’t immoral.
I’ve served in the Army for 23 years. I’ve got two wars and a peacekeeping action under my belt. During this time, I have served with some great men and women who were in fact homosexuals. However, Gen. Peter Pace is absolutely right. There are just some forms of behavior in the military that are not allowed. I have to weigh within a certain body fat percentage. I have to do so many pushups and situps and run two miles in a certain time. I can be prosecuted if I commit adultery. There’s just some forms of behavior that are not compatible with military life. Homosexuality is one of those. It’s not a rap against gay people just as the previous restrictions are not a rap against overweight and out-of-shape people and those who commit adultery. The military is not for everybody, and everybody is not for the military.
Not in the least.
I think his point is in the military you’re not even supposed to be caught having sex with a woman, let alone a man.
yes.
immoral my motherfucking ass
how the fuck is it immoral? minus the fucking religion
People who play God by judging others are immoral.
“There are no moral phenomena, only moral interpretation of phenomena.”
first of all….rock on! It’s about time someone opened up their mouth and said what they think on TV.
as to the question, I guess that would answer it with my above statement.
“how the fuck is it immoral? minus the fucking religion”
Haha, nice catch.
If you guys google Rich Yates a motivational speaker, he talks about his 30 year struggle with homosexuality, and how he beat it. so yeah..I don’t think it’s a natural occurance. I believe anyone has the potential to be homosexual, it’s just not reacting to it that makes you weak or strong.
no.
Being able to speak his mind is one thing, sure, he’s entitled to his opinion and freedom of speech no matter how asinine his views are. When he represents the viewpoints of our government in making an absolutist statement about something as relative as morality, I think he should choose his words a little more carefully.
Prime example of justified atheist hostility – there are a lot of people who believe in divine mandate and other religious views who have quite a bit of political power over the rest of us.
IE: “I’m going to appoint common sense judges who **know** that our rights are derived from God.”
Oh, and before someone points out that he didn’t make a religious statement, but a moral one: Don’t for a second try to pretend that the anti-gay mindset isn’t rooted in Puritanism.
In what way does it matter what we think about homosexuality? Why not ask if being nice is immoral? Who cares. Does it matter? If so, from what universal point of view does this even matter?
The military is not for everybody, and everybody is not for the military.
Posted 3/13/2007 12:20 PM by paoguy118
I agree. They have standards and rules and a code of conduct everyone is expected to abide by, or they can be thrown out or court martialed. This includes adultery, sex outside of marriage, whether gay or not, so yes, the act is immoral under the military’s code of conduct. If you don’t want to follow all ther rules – cut your hair a certain way, look a certain way, wear certain clothes, keep your weight within their standards, or behave a certain way – then don’t join up.
Is anyone completely hetero or homosexual? I can’t believe this. I think we’re all a mixture socialized and leaning one way more than another. I like what Lewis Black said when he spoke to his “heterosexual” friend. He asked his friend: do you like watching pornos? Yes. Do you like seeing a man with a limp penis or a hard penis have sex with a woman? Friend replies…a hard erection. Lewis says, “your part gay then.”
“Yes. First of all, the Bible explicitely states that it is wrong. Secondly, human bodies just aren’t made that way. A woman and a man fit together naturally, because they are made that way. A man and a man don’t fit together naturally. A woman and a woman can’t fit together. I’m sorry to be graphic like that but it’s true. It’s anatomically incorrect to be a homosexual.
Posted 3/13/2007 11:52 AM by GodzLuvNaGurl”
Is it “anatomically incorrect” to masturbate? To have oral sex?
One day it just might dawn on you that your Draconic laws don’t have any appeal to a person who’s not a Christian.
Depends on your morals.
“I agree. They have standards and rules and a code of conduct everyone is expected to abide by, or they can be thrown out or court martialed.”
The military isn’t a private organization like the boy scouts. It’s an organization that should be open to anyone who wants to do something good for their country, and interjecting your own petty moral viewpoints as a prerequisite for recruitment is childish and superficial.
Just because rules exist doesn’t mean that the rules are right, and it doesn’t mean that they can’t and shouldn’t be reformed. Any high-handed protestant Christian should know the value of that; that is, if most contemporary Christians weren’t so ignorant about their own religious history.
If it is true from a certain point of view that homosexuality is immoral, then ask the question of that point of view. Otherwise we can post comments all day long past one another. Why not follow up the question with a Why so people can understand one another’s point of view?
no.
but even if it is, isn’t killing immoral? and that’s what the military does all the time. So really, when you think about it…
Nice one, well said vampiress08
Whether homosexuality is viewed as immoral or morally acceptable, is solely based on what you believe. And what you believe is based on cultural and religious influences.
I read the bible, and believe that I have a relationship with an unseen deity. Aka Christian. According to my scripture homosexuality breaks God’s law. But so do many, many things that are common place (lying, lust, hate). It is my hope that I through Christ’s love treat all people with kindness, dignity and respect. I am not God; I cannot change anyone. God made them and no matter their struggle, they are his creation. But that is just my belief based on my personal religious views.
: )
no. but that is their policy. Its their club, they make the rules.
The military does make their own rules. Congress made another one. “Don’t ask don’t tell”. While I think that alone is degrading to people serving in the military, homosexuals are not the only people in the military who suffer from discrimination type issues. Whether or not homosexuality is considered immoral does not effect their ability to do their job.
For those who are in the military and commenting as to why they feel homosexual people should not serve our country, can you please list a valid reason why? Are they less capable of performing the job? Do they hinder a squadron in combat moreso than another? Are they physically weaker? Do they cry more, or suffer more distress then a heterosexual? If you are going to make a loosely based comment that gay people should not be allowed to serve their country, please give a reason why. I haven’t seen a single thing listed yet that is a GOOD reason a homosexual should not be allowed to serve in the military.
why ask these questions when you already know what people are gonna say?
to get comments? to analyze how people think or who they are? to let people know what current issues are out there, or what each are thinking? which is probably your best answer. idk, all im wondering is why you devote so much time to this xanga thing. always asking questions, basically the same ones. and you get all of these same replies. by now, id assume that your so freakin smart that you dont need to ask. idk, maybe your doing it for all three of those things. doesnt matter. my question wont get answered. doubt you’ll have the time, and i honestly doubt youre doing this for an altruistic cause to humanity (in other words, the third answer).
NO!
No. You can’t help your DNA.
How about the fucking priest who molested children in Boston? Thanks to him probably the OVER ONE HUNDRED KIDS HE MOLESTED probably lost their faith. That’s not immoral or anything. But gays? Two people of the same sex being attracted to eachother? We can’t have that. Yes, we might as well get rid of interracial relationships too while we’re at it. That’s immoral as well.
What an asshole that guy is. Obviously someone can’t help something they’re born with.
In my opinion, anyway.
u have no freedom in the military. it’s just the way it is. it’s not about it being immoral or not.
arent morals deteremined by an individuals belief?
homosexuals do not bother me one bit. Just because that is not my lifestyle, doenst mean I should shun it.
I know homosexuals in the military and I really dont care how they live their life, as long as they can do their job. They just the same as any other soldier.
I get irritated hearing about peoples personal sexcapades whether is homosexual or heterosexual. The dont ask dont tell policy should be extended to loose women in the military too. Broads be giving other females a bad name.. so basically its ok to be promiscuous and heterosexual and discuss it, but its not ok to discuss a monagomous(sp?) relationship with a partner if you are gay?? Thats stupid. I rather see a happy couple who really love each other and be able support each other especially if one is in the military becaue family support is so important and the military doesnt realize how big a chunk is missing out on functions and support just because of a lifestyle…. but if its the Married Joe’s wife screwing the Commander.. go right ahead and LEAD the family support groups…
eh.. frustrating.
No. It is different from normal. People will fight and fight over it. Times change. Laws change. Veiws change.
No.
Derek
“The military isn’t a private organization like the boy scouts. It’s an organization that should be open to anyone who wants to do something good for their country, and interjecting your own petty moral viewpoints as a prerequisite for recruitment is childish and superficial. Yosiph”
Actually, the military ISN’T open to everyone…you have to meet their standards before they will let you in.
it angers me SO MUCH THAT PEOPLE ANSWERED “YES.”
HOW THE HECK COULD U ALSO SAY THAT “YES BUT IT’S THE INDIVIDUAL’S RIGHT AS TO WHT PATH THEY WANT TO GO DOWN..” ARE YOU FLIPPING STUPID?!!? CLEARLY! BECAUSE NO ONE CHOOSES TO BE GAY!
jeeeeeeeeeeeeez! if we could choose stuff like that, i’d choose for braindead people like YOU to be wiped off the face of this earth!
NO.
absolutely not
Homosexuality – if we define it as the predisposition, genetically or environmentally based, to be attracted to members of one’s own sex – cannot be immoral. However, homosexual acts are clearly defined as wrong in the Bible and are maladaptive for those who practice them.
Yes.
Romans 1:21-32 (KJV)
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Thank you, Paul.
Pardon me. My HTML coding is VERY rusty. I switched the bold code, so what’s bold should not be and what’s normal should be bold.
=/
Bible says yes.
Calls it a perversion.
As my homosexual friends tell me, being a homosexual is not something that they wanted to be — they were simply born that way. How can something that is, by these terms, natural, be immoral? I don’t believe that the condition of being a homosexual is immoral, and I don’t believe their relationship or anything attached to these things are immoral. If we’re going to say that being a homosexual is immoral, mostly due to the fact, in my opinion, that there are simply less of them and this situation is only now becoming more and more public, then let’s call minorities and small religious groups immoral. Does this make sense? No. So let’s not persecute people over their sexual orientation.
My belief: Not homosexuality (the orientation) in itself, but the acts, like sex.
of course not. get a fucking clue. sheesh. i have other comments to say, but it seems like everyone else has already said them…
It all depends on your personal definition of immorality. Some people see homosexuality as an immoral act, in their own personal beleifs. In my personal opinion, I don’t think morals can be based on what you are, but rather who you are. A gay person has no less potential to be good or bad as a straight person.
definitely not.
Posted 3/13/2007 4:22 PM by The_Psalter,
FYI, in my opinion if you are going to post scripture backing up whether or not the Bible says it is ok to be gay, Leviticus is much more blunt than those passages you posted. I *believe* it starts around chapter 17, although I have not recently read those.
I am still waiting on someone to give a viable reason why a gay person is less likely to perform a good job in the military? Anyone?
Yes!
Well, I think that homosexuality itself isn’t really immoral. It’s more a matter of who you love, right? And you can’t help who you love.
The only reason those of you who said it was immoral said it was so because God says it. Not everyone is a Christian. Therefore, they have different morals. Christians have different (but not necessarily wrong) morals than non-Christians. But just because homosexuality doesn’t conform to YOUR morals does not mean it’s wrong.
But on top of all that, I think it’s wrong how people are excluded (or feel excluded) from church because they’re gay. What, god doesn’t love you if you’re gay?
And to those of you who said homosexuals cannot be in the military? FUCK YOU.
Of course it is immoral.
why don’t we ask the gay people if they think they had a choice. mmm?
yes
No.
why don’t we ask the gay people if they think they had a choice. mmm?
Posted 3/13/2007 7:01 PM by highlyamusing
Exactly. Why would anyone want to be born gay? Why would you want to be discriminated against people who use their bible rather than their hearts?
No one wants that. No one wants hate. No one wants to be labeled “immoral.”
Hmm…I don’t think we should let the morals of a book written 2,000 years ago by over 1000 different people rule our country. As far as I know, america was never meant to be a theocracy.
no.
“Is homosexuality immoral?” Does the Pope wear a pointy hat?!!!
highlyamusing said: “I don’t think we should let the morals of a book written 2,000 years ago by over 1000 different people rule our country…”
1000 different people? Really, what Bible are you NOT reading?
War is immoral
And NO, being gay is not immoral.
Um, NO.
And I really don’t think it’s up to them to judge either way. The only real, plausible argument against it would be religion, and HELLO: aren’t we supposed to be keeping that out of the government?
Ask any homosexual person if they chose to be gay, and I can almost gurantee you they’ll say no. Seriously.
Homosexual love is just as beautiful and meaningful as any other kind.
Get a clue.
Obviously those dudes who wrote that bible thing had never taken it up the ass. Cause I’m telling you it is GODLY.
Yes
yes
Homosexuality is not immoral. They can’t help the way they are and frankly they’re doing nothing wrong if what they’re doing is out of love.
Isn’t the bigger question: is human sexuality problematic in Christian/Muslim/ Judea traditions? Maybe, if our religions weren’t so uptight about sex, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
for gods sake why don’t they concentrate on getting all of the baby rapers locke dup and off the streets and leave gay folks alone
yes but so are all other sins.
Well, as for the “it’s unnatural” argument, people used to say the same thing about mixed-race couples.
If God didn’t want people to be gay, he shouldn’t have made them that way.
I have one question for all the silly bible-thumpers out there: Did you choose to be straight? Like, really, a conscious choice?
Yes homosexuality is immoral, but then so is heterosexual promiscuity
The only reason those of you who said it was immoral said it was so because God says it. Not everyone is a Christian. Therefore, they have different morals. Christians have different (but not necessarily wrong) morals than non-Christians. But just because homosexuality doesn’t conform to YOUR morals does not mean it’s wrong.
But on top of all that, I think it’s wrong how people are excluded (or feel excluded) from church because they’re gay. What, god doesn’t love you if you’re gay?
And to those of you who said homosexuals cannot be in the military? FUCK YOU.
Posted 3/13/2007 6:44 PM by Hair_Like_Lace
I agree with you. However, I think it was a more personal question. Saying just “Is homosexuality immoral?” is pretty broad so people answered from their points of view, not from a general one.
I get irritated hearing about peoples personal sexcapades whether is homosexual or heterosexual. The dont ask dont tell policy should be extended to loose women in the military too. Broads be giving other females a bad name.. so basically its ok to be promiscuous and heterosexual and discuss it, but its not ok to discuss a monagomous(sp?) relationship with a partner if you are gay?? Thats stupid. I rather see a happy couple who really love each other and be able support each other especially if one is in the military becaue family support is so important and the military doesnt realize how big a chunk is missing out on functions and support just because of a lifestyle…. but if its the Married Joe’s wife screwing the Commander.. go right ahead and LEAD the family support groups…
eh.. frustrating.
Posted 3/13/2007 2:57 PM by bda16981
Agreed! totally agreed!
YES
AND LEGALIZING IT WON’T MAKE IT ANY LESS SO
as carlos mencia would say, “duh duh duh”
everyone is right here. I depdends on who you are. If you are religious, you say it is immoral and if you are not then you don’t. So, everyone has an opinion about it. Me, no comment regaring this – but be careful guys about your military- some of them are Psycos and they kill innocent people. You can only be proud of some of them not all, and not all of them serves America, take in mind that they are sent out to Iraq or to Afghanistan to serve human rights, democracy, American interest and defeat the enemies of you, but they are creating thousands of enemies every day. They shooting at people, at passers by, they are shooting people inside their houses, they are bombing children and women in their houses while they are a sleep. There is no one to ask why? Don’t you think that they are worsting your lives then serving to make it secure? How many American are safe around the world? None! How many of you feel secure in your houses, rooms, schools, buses and so…? Why? there is a reason and you have to know… I am an Afghan and I am working with foreingers, I have never worked with US military but I have worked with other International forces and you know what, it is from USA and Canada who kills civilians and disrespects people. Not British, Not Germans, not Australians and no Dutch.
Think before you be proud…
everyone is right here. I depdends on who you are. If you are religious, you say it is immoral and if you are not then you don’t. So, everyone has an opinion about it. Me, no comment regaring this – but be careful guys about your military- some of them are Psycos and they kill innocent people. You can only be proud of some of them not all, and not all of them serves America, take in mind that they are sent out to Iraq or to Afghanistan to serve human rights, democracy, American interest and defeat the enemies of you, but they are creating thousands of enemies every day. They shooting at people, at passers by, they are shooting people inside their houses, they are bombing children and women in their houses while they are a sleep. There is no one to ask why? Don’t you think that they are worsting your lives then serving to make it secure? How many American are safe around the world? None! How many of you feel secure in your houses, rooms, schools, buses and so…? Why? there is a reason and you have to know… I am an Afghan and I am working with foreingers, I have never worked with US military but I have worked with other International forces and you know what, it is from USA and Canada who kills civilians and disrespects people. Not British, Not Germans, not Australians and no Dutch.
Think before you be proud…
so…do adulterers get discharged too then?
Of course it isn’t.
I have a few things to say…
First of all, the military’s stance implies that you’d better not be caught having homosexual relations – so whether it’s right or wrong is not the issue, the military doesn’t want to know about it happening within thier own ranks, but the guy did it anyway. It’s the same thing as if a heterosexual in the military got caught sleeping with another woman in the military.
2ndly, I’m getting my degree in Psych, and scientists have yet to find any biological cause for homosexuality. There are biological correlations, but no causes have ever been found.
I don’t see how anyone who believes Scripture to be the Truth can condone something the Bible condemns, or how they can believe that God would condemn something that someone can’t help. Anyone with a clear grasp of Scripture on the topic will know that the short answer to your question is a firm yes. How homosexuals are treated in the church is a whole ‘nuther ball-o-wax.
Blue
no its not.
i just recently learned in my history class that ancient day Spartans/Greek men regularly engaged in homosexual activities and greatly encouraged it. The Spartans themselves believed it would create a stronger bond between the men in their army and make them more protective of each other.
Food for thought, i guess.
Nope. People can’t help it that they’re like that, no more than zebras can remove their stripes or I can stop thinking Blackheart from Ghost Rider/Wes Bently is hotttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt (this is where one of those sideways 8′s goes).
Yes it’s immoral. So is sexual promiscuity and premarital sex. So is lying. We’re all sinners, but we have to at least acknowledge what’s right and wrong, so that we can learn and be forgiven.
By the way, I’d like to point out that if you get your morals from your own opinions, it’s very hard to tell right from wrong 100% of the time. We’re born with a general concept of morality, by means of conscience, however if you ignore it too much it will stop bothering you when you make bad decisions. That’s why I get a good reference point, like God. He ought to know what’s right and wrong, I should think. Getting the right reference point is another broad subject up for debate, but it’s quite obvious to me that human judgement is askew.
Thank you for being consistent, person above me. If you’re going to say sex(or even orgasms) are only for baby-making, make sure you get all of those groups, and probably the masterbaters too.
I may not agree with you, but I like that you’re looking at the big picture.
Wow. Multiple pages of comments. I was talking ’bout the woman at the bottom of the first page (wow that’s a lot of comments!).
Homos are not immoral. Depends on the individuals. It’s their lives and they have chosen that way. Many people out there ARE immoral though they’re not homos. So, yah….
oh w/e buildin a mystery .” I think you are changing the topic because you can’t come up with a logical way to defend immorality.” omg ok 1st theres the FACT that homosexuality is a chemical imbalance in the brain so the couldnt b straight if they tried,2nd theres a law that says sepparation of gov’t an church, 3rd Y DO U CARE!??? its their life & dont get me wrong im a christian an i no i wont c them in heaven but if they want 2 b happy now then y not????? wut if they’re not evn christian?? should they still follow those values?
No it isn’t immoral.
That’s like saying being heterosexual is immoral.
Or that it’s immoral for a sponge to be asexual.
I think that homosexuals in the military have the right to a healthy sex life just like the heterosexuals in the military do.
And the military sponges likewise.