The Court of Appeal in the UK made a decision that I would like to throw on the table. The ruled that a drunk person (in this case a woman) can still consent to sex. The case came to the court after a man was convicted of raping a woman after they had sex when they had both been drinking.
The 25-year-old man and the 19-year-old woman were together with some friends one evening and they were both drinking heavily. She drank two pints of cider and four to six vodkas. He drank two pints of lager and had some vodka and Red Bull.
The girl got sick from the drink in the shower. The man helped her wash her hair. The next thing she remembers is waking up in bed having sex with him.
The court did not see the issue as whether the woman was less inhibited or whether the guy behaved irresponsibly. They saw the issue as an issue of whether he had “sexual intercourse with the complainant without her consent.”
The court ruled “where the complainant has voluntarily consumed even substantial quantities of alcohol, but nevertheless remains capable of choosing whether or not to have intercourse, and in drink agrees to do so, this would not be rape.”
Can a drunk person consent to sex?
Comments (155)
I think so…But I’ve never been drunk, so I have no idea.
No. Getting consent from a drunk person is like getting consent from a mentally handicapped person. They don’t know what they’re saying.
http://www.lost.eu/30369
This is an iffy one. It depends on how drunk. To a certain point, you are completely aware of what you are doing. But once you are so far gone, you might not be, and probably won’t remember a lot of it the next day.
Yes
Yes. If you don’t think you can handle yourself when drunk, and make responsible choices, then make the responsible choice and don’t drink in the first place.
We aren’t talking about a child or someone who was forced to drink against their will. We aren’t talking about someone who thought they were drinking one thing and had something else put in their glass.
We are talking about a responsible adult who chose to get drunk, and made a bad choice as a result. No different than the hundreds of thousands of people sitting in jail because they chose to drink, and made the bad choice of driving afterwards.
Why is it the person’s fault if they drive drunk and hurt someone, but not their fault if they go home with a guy drunk and decide to have sex in their inebriated state?
I’m not entirely sure how I feel about this one.
I am wondering, however, how she could consent to sex if she were sleeping (in the story you mentioned… )since she “woke up” to discover he was having sex with her…
Yes, they can. That doesn’t mean it is always the case though.
I’d imagine that it can happen. What I think would be an interesting question to consider here is this:
If you’re in a monagamous (that is totally spelled incorrectly, but whatever) relationship, can consent under the influence be implied?
I say that because I think many would be willing to believe that they didn’t need to be consenting to have sex while intoxicated with somebody they would normally be having sex with anyway. I think in the case of one-nighters or something like that, it’s different. One might “consent” to sex with somebody while drunk that they wouldn’t when they were of sound mind. There’s a very fine line, I think. I almost think this can be situational.
In summary: I’m not quite sure. There are probably instances in which a drunk person can offer consent, and maybe times when one cannot.
I totally agree with Building_A_Mystery. Hate to steal someone’s else’s opinion… but in this case I couldn’t have said it better myself.
It all depends on how drunk someone is.
yeah
Alcohol besides being a panty remover, also makes people less inhibited. They say and do things that they want to do but don’t sober. It doesn’t change them in any way. In the end, we as adults are responsible for our actions.
that depends on how drunk you are.
It depends on how drunk. Thats why I always let the girl make the first move in situations like that. If the person is wasted and passed out, then I’m gonna say no. But its perfectly acceptable to draw phallic objects on their skin with markers.
Yes they can and do consent. But do they remember if they did or did not, well enough to be throwing a guy in jail? A guy whose good judgment and memory may also have impaired by alcohol.
if youre dumb enough to drink with people you cant trust, or lets be honest, people you dont want to sleep with, then youre dumb enough to probably have consented if you were sober. So either way, you’ll have the sex and still be a slut… ahhhh
Why is it the person’s fault if they drive drunk and hurt someone, but not their fault if they go home with a guy drunk and decide to have sex in their inebriated state?
Posted 3/27/2007 8:22 AM by Building_A_Mystery
Excellent point! I couldn’t have put it better.
Of course they can consent to sex while drunk. I’ve always hated it when girls cry rape after a drunken night. So you did something you wouldn’t normally have done, that’s YOUR fault, don’t go blaming it on the guy. He was probably drunk too, it doesn’t mean he raped you. Don’t drink with someone you don’t trust.
And I agree with the drunk-driving comment, that’s an excellent point.
of course you can consent.
you may regret it later, but you can consent. and if you do, that’s your own stupidity, not rape. for fuck’s sake.
i have consented to many things while drunk.
i don’t remember doing it. most of the time. [this makes me sound like a perpetually drunk, crazy girl.]
but when you drink that much you are making a choice. i know at what point i loose control of some of my thoughts and i still go there. i know that the people i drink with know what my limits are and what i should and shouldn’t do while drunk.
well obviously they CAN, butttt…
Yep. It’s good incentive not to be stupid and get drunk.
No – but since they were both drunk that means either could have been the initiator, given consent, or both – and they dont remember…. THAT WHY YOU DONT GET DRUNK!!!!
- Daniel (doubledb)
maybe she raped him!
haven’t you asked this question b4…
Yes… you can’t use being drunk as an excuse. It’s not like she was forced to get heavily intoxicated with her friends. Sounds like she doesn’t want to come off like a tramp, so she decided to call rape. Can the guy say that she raped him? Why not?
If one person is drunk and the other isn’t, then I believe it would be rape. If both people are drunk, then it’s just a stupid decision. In this case, both people were drunk. It’s a stupid decision then. Not rape.
Oh, and Building_A_Mystery made a very good point by comparing responsibility when driving drunk or sexing drunk.
This girl is saying that she was raped, but she “cant remember” what happened? Is it not possible that she consented [at the time] and when she sobered up felt guilty about the situation? Is it fair to the guy to cry “rape” and possibly ruin his life, all because she was acting IRRESPONSIBLY?
They both could have made better choices-
In this day and age, we all know the dangers of drinking… After a certain point, we cannot make reponsible choices. If u are going to be partying , u should
a) know your limit - or at least when to quit.
b) know who u are drinking with
and
c) plan ahead…(designate a sober person to make sure things dont get out of control, and so that no one drives impaired.)
When its all said & done, we are all still reponsible for our own actions…
No. Getting consent from a drunk person is like getting consent from a mentally handicapped person. They don’t know what they’re saying.
http://www.lost.eu/30369
Posted 3/27/2007 8:20 AM by saucysweetie
I agree, I’m in college right now, I don’t get drunk but a lot of people I know do, yes, they are intoxicating themselves but you have to take into account that a lot of people aren’t TRYING to get that fucking drunk. Alcohol takes a long time for your system to process so you may feel a slight buzz but later it can turn into a raging drunkenness.
If someone is so drunk that they do not know what the person is saying and is just simply agreeing, it’s fucking wrong.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, please forgive me if I am somewhat insensitive about this but…
A lot of people I know who party get drunker than they intend to, they merely wanted a buzz. What if someone became Mentally Handicapped from something like boxing too many times even though they’ve been warned about it.
Just because impairment is “your fault” doesn’t mean it’s okay for people to have sex with you.
*This British court didn’t say that both parties had to be intoxicated, thus a sober guy could have sex with a drunk girl. Sure, she may have said “yes,” but is that really consent? I’m just looking at the far-reaching implications of this.
**Just like it’s NOT okay for a sober girl to have sex with a drunk guy. (This happened to one of my friends, I get absolutely PISSED off when people say guys that are raped are “lucky.” A 17 yr old girl that has sex with her hot teacher is raped while a 17 yr old guy is lucky?
maybe she raped him!
haha. exactly.
Why is it the person’s fault if they drive drunk and hurt someone, but not their fault if they go home with a guy drunk and decide to have sex in their inebriated state?
Posted 3/27/2007 8:22 AM by Building_A_Mystery
The establishment that got you drunk is often held responsible for your drunk driving, so are you saying that you should be able to sue whoever got you drunk if you had sex?
Because, even when you drink and drive you’re still not ENTIRELY responsible, bars are often held liable for drunk-drivers.
a) know your limit – or at least when to quit.
that’s really hard in a college drinking situation, people are not focused on what they are drinking and are getting “topped off” so they don’t know how many glasses of alcohol they have actually consumed.
People, Alcohol is MOSTLY absorbed by the Small Intestine, NOT the stomach, therefore the effects are felt like 45 minutes after you take a drink. (MOST of the effects, I should say)
depends on how drunk the person is
Uhm, maybe beforehand.
yes
This issue is dangerous, you don’t see how defense attorneys could skew this. (actually, i don’t think they have defense attorneys in UK but that’s another issue…)
I just feel like a lot of women who have been raped while drunk will not be able to seek legal recourse as easily. He could say she consented to it and she could say she didn’t and maybe the fact that she was drunk could be used to somehow invalidate her testimony.
And physical evidence may be compromised if someone is drunk. If a women is drunk she may not show signs of rape because her body would be relaxed(I think we know where I’m going with this…) She also may not show defensive wounds or wound her attacker, just making it look more and more like consensual sex when it was not.
“Because, even when you drink and drive you’re still not ENTIRELY responsible, bars are often held liable for drunk-drivers.”
They are held liable because the legal system is made up of highly unintelligent parasites, who know how to use hand selected idiots. And alcohol is not slowly assimilated at all. Its one of the fastest assimilated things you can put in your body. Your friends must be comparing drinking to smoking crack
I am wondering, however, how she could consent to sex if she were sleeping (in the story you mentioned… )since she “woke up” to discover he was having sex with her…
Posted 3/27/2007 8:23 AM by eeyore17026
Yeah, if that’s how this went down, then a rapist just went free. Nice job U.K.
If he knew her to be drunken to the point of sick and passed out he shouldn’t have gone ahead and had sex with her even if she initiated it. That being said he was drunk as well and didn’t do anymore than follow his body’s lead. I think when you are with the person out drinking and go home with that person you’re taking that chance. It’s not like he followed her out of the bar, raped her and left her on the side of the road. She was out with him, dating him, and probably planning on sleeping with him.
Absolutely a drunk person can consent. And a drunk person can also say no and be raped. Just because she blacked/browned out doesn’t mean she didn’t consent.
They are held liable because the legal system is made up of highly unintelligent parasites, who know how to use hand selected idiots. And alcohol is not slowly assimilated at all. Its one of the fastest assimilated things you can put in your body. Your friends must be comparing drinking to smoking crack
Posted 3/27/2007 9:35 AM by trunthepaige
Ummmmmmmm lol, you’re so wrong on this:
“For normal social-type drinking, the highest BAC is usually achieved within 30 minutes after completion of consumption, though it could take as long as 60 minutes. When large amounts of alcohol are consumed over a short time interval, or when a large quantity of food is eaten with the alcohol, the absorption phase may not be complete for up to two (2) hours after last consumption.”
http://www.forcon.ca/learning/alcohol.html
attercop
You Are worried that a guy might not go to jail because the only witness against him was blind drunk, and there was zero evidence to support her story.
I would vastly more worried if the word of one person, who admittedly was too drunk to know what was happing, was enough to send anyone to jail.
My philosophy is this: The moment you take your first sip, you aknowledge and accept everything that might happen while you’re drunk might happen and accepting it. If you didn’t then you wouldn’t take that risk in the first place.
And alcohol is not slowly assimilated at all. Its one of the fastest assimilated things you can put in your body. Your friends must be comparing drinking to smoking crack
Posted 3/27/2007 9:35 AM by trunthepaige
Well, my friends don’t pop pills, this is the only drug they do that’s absorbed in the large intestine, a lot of them smoke cigarettes.
30 minutes is slow in your eyes? Nothing taken orally is faster. No I’m dead on sorry
Visit trunthepaige’s Xanga Site!
attercop
You Are worried that a guy might not go to jail because the only witness against him was blind drunk, and there was zero evidence to support her story.
Wrong, I’m worried about the precedence this sets up.
Alcohol starts absorbing in mouth lining. It requires zero dejection. No pill comes close in speed
30 minutes is slow in your eyes? Nothing taken orally is faster. No I’m dead on sorry
Posted 3/27/2007 9:40 AM by trunthepaige
Smoking is a lot faster, and as I said, my friends don’t pop pills. And by that I mean, a few of my friends can’t swallow pills at all. Alcohol is a slow-absorbing drug, it’s slower than acid even.
Drinking always clouds the issue. You just never know what really happened, and the folks involved probably really don’t know either.
Alcohol starts absorbing in mouth lining. It requires zero dejection. No pill comes close in speed
Posted 3/27/2007 9:42 AM by trunthepaige
As I said, My friends don’t pop pills.
oh for fuck’s sake. is someone actually arguing with paige about this? morons, really. morons.
“Wrong, I’m worried about the precedence this sets up”
And what precedence would that be? That one unreliable witness can not send man to jail on her word alone?
And what precedence would that be? That one unreliable witness can not send man to jail on her word alone?
she’s right, you know.
HA! paige; it’s a rare occurance for us to be in agreement.
“Smoking is a lot faster”
I see were are back to crack again.
Not so rare
But why bring it up when I agree with you
And what precedence would that be? That one unreliable witness can not send man to jail on her word alone?
Posted 3/27/2007 9:44 AM by trunthepaige
First off, we don’t have a transcript of the court proceedings, we don’t know the evidence that was presented, if there was any at all, thus we cannot assume that. Consent is not freely given when someone is intoxicated, it basically says it’s okay for a sober man to have sex with a drunk women if she babbles out yes.
It doesn’t say the man must be drunk too, It doesn’t say how drunk the woman must be. It’s just very vague. I don’t think it’s fair when two drunk people have sex and the woman regrets it later and says she was raped because the man was intoxicated too, they raped each other essentially. It’s a very-legislatively gray area, and because of that I don’t think something that vague is going to solve this issue.
How will she be determined capable to choose whether or not to have sex, when she’s drunk, that’s what I don’t understand. Are they going to establish a test for that, or what? It just seems over-simplified.
“Smoking is a lot faster”
I see were are back to crack again.
Posted 3/27/2007 9:45 AM by trunthepaige
I go to the University of Michigan, a lot of my friends smoke Cigarettes, it’s not so smart, but Idk where you can buy crack in Ann Arbor, I’m sure you know of a place, but I don’t.
(It’s one of my pet peeves when people incorrectly use the term “on crack” I know you didn’t, but bringing it up is just slightly annoying)
The question really is how was the court able to establish her “capability to choose?”
Another parallel was raised with drunk driving. I think those are dissimilar situations. Getting drunk and purportedly being raped assumes coercion by another party–they might not have made the choice in isolation. A drunk driver assumes responsibility because a potential victim is innocent and is in a clear state of mind.
for god’s sake.
intoxication doesn’t make you a different person. it makes your inhibitions go down. you can still think; you just might say yes to something you’d not do when sober.
that, however, isn’t someone else’s fault. it’s yours for getting that fucking drunk and not being around someone responsible enough not to take advantage of you. there’s a difference between getting drunkenly taken advtage of and raped.
REGRET does not mean you can put someone else in jail for rape. REGRET means you stop getting plastered around men you don’tknow.
Ok for one, if you get drunk you should be liable for your own actions because it was your choice to get drunk. If you say yes to sex while intoxicated, then you are not getting raped. If a drunk girl told me to fuck her, and I wanted too, I would get drunk myself first. Because technically a male cannot give consent while drunk either, except in this case.
And the post above me says it all
OMG, finally a thread where a majority of the comments actually hold up to an decent argument.
Nice way to put it, BuildingAMystery.
Of course, it could still be rape given the right circumstances, but I couldn’t believe how many people automatically said “no consent possible” the last time this question was posed.
Maybe SHE raped HIM!
If you take the risk to drink in excess then you take the risk to make bad choices while drunk. You choose to drive while drunk and are held accountable if you kill someone. So, if you have sex while drunk then you have to deal with the consiquences. I am sure there are guys who take advantage of a drunk girl at a bar….but that is a risk you take as a woman who goes out and gets drunk.
its funny, anything else(criminal behavior for instance.) drunkenness is no excuse. why? because you CHOSE to get drunk. other than a spiked drink of some sort, i would have to say that “consent”(in general, not specificaly consent to sex) begins when you decide you are going to turn your brain to mush for the evening. as to the particulars of this case, what was she doing in the shower with him in the first place? where were they when they had sex? when they drank? i mean, as far as i can tell there is a large difference between say, going to a bar, finding a drunk chick, leading her home and to the shower; going to a party at a friends house, noticing a drunk chick, following her into the shower; and having a girl over, her getting drunk and the two of you getting into the shower.
I always have.
Oh god.
When you can’t even remember the sex, or giving consent to it, you’re WAY beyond the point of being able to make such a decision.
This is so friggin typical. If the tables were turned, and it was MEN who could get pregnant and MEN who were more suceptible to catching STDs, these sorts of rulings would be unheard of.
A drunk person can give consent, but someone passed out cannot. There is a difference.
Nothing good happens to a drunk.
u know, maybe she raped him! he was drunk too!
I kind of think no. I have been in that situation before (I don’t drink anymore) and…I don’t know. I shouldn’t have drank so much in the first place. But I know that the guy that was with me hadn’t drank so much and was clearly still in control of himself, you know? Is it rape? I don’t know. Should he have had sex with her? No. That much is obvious. Plus, who wants to have sex with someone that just threw up in their hair? Ew.
yeah you can consent up to a certain point… you may have behaved differently while sober but you can still consent. Once you’re say, passed out, obviously you cannot consent. But that would all be very hard to prove whether you were passed out or you just don’t remember consenting… bottom line watch how much you drink.
Whats next, a ruling that people in coma’s can consent to sex?
well ill out it like this….. the cops are willing to arrest someone and try them for something they did while intoxicated, they are willing to hold them responsible, no matter how drunk they maybe….. so… if you can be put on trial and found guilty for making a decision you dont remember making, well then i guess you should be responsible for whats in your pants… or in this case, whats not in your pants…. no matter how intoxicated, or how much you dont remeber!~
If a person voluntarily gets drunk, then whatever happens happens, and it is their own damn fault. They shouldn’t be able to pass the responsibility for their actions to anyone or anything else.
I completely agree with Building_A_Mystery.
Yes. Time and time again we have been told that judgment is the FIRST thing to leave you when you begin to drink alcohol. By drinking alcohol you are CHOOSING to have complete disregard for any decision-making ability, therefore you are opening all invitations for people to make decisions for you. This is not some disease that just comes upon you and therefore you HAVE to have a caretaker. This is something you do to yourself and you must suffer the consequences, whether good or bad [and typically the bad consequences outweigh the good ones]. I’m sorry to have to break the news to you, but responsibility and common sense are still the governing bodies of our lives.
I’m surprised with how many people I don’t normally agree with on many things actually agree with me on this topic. Common sense to the rescue!
She was obviously nekkid with him in the shower…so waking up in bed with him shouldn’t have been a surprise.
RYC: Thank you Dan
Nope
She was so drunk she was puking in the shower. I agree that she should not have been that drunk, but on the other hand I also think he is pretty damn sleezy for having sex with a girl when he helped wash the puke out of her hair. He knew she was trashed. What a sleeze ball.
ditto to what Building_A_Mystery said
She was so drunk she was puking in the shower. I agree that she should not have been that drunk, but on the other hand I also think he is pretty damn sleezy for having sex with a girl when he helped wash the puke out of her hair. He knew she was trashed. What a sleeze ball.
he was drunk too, for christ’s sake. it’s not as if he stayed sober so he could get laid by a chick too drunk to even know what was going on, yet along participate in the sex.
contracts are legal if u sign them while drunk. Drinking is a choice, and if u choose to inhibit your inhibitions thats your own fault. Driving drunk is a choice, u consented to driving and drinking. Sexing drunk is the same way, you part your legs or stink it in ar our own leisure (expect in the case of rape, which is when the woman says no but the man does it anyway).
But here is a solution, if u dont want to have sex, dont bring yourself to that point of stupidity with alcohol that u dont know what u are doing anymore. Duh.
of course not. isn’t one of the most well-known effects of alcohol that it lowers inhibitions? yes, she chooses to drink voluntarily, but she should hypothetically be able to drink as much as she wants without fear of unwanted sexual advances.
Yes, you can consent to sex while drunk. And yes, sometimes you get so drunk that you can’t consent even if you wanted to (or didn’t want to). I think that it’s a hard case to prove.
No. Getting consent from a drunk person is like getting consent from a mentally handicapped person. They don’t know what they’re saying.
http://www.lost.eu/30369
Fight Mental Illness Stigma
boy you women sure do have it easy, y’all dont ever have to worry about getting anyone pregnant! (ha ha, if u dont know i am joking, get off the internet, your overly sensitive)
of course not. isn’t one of the most well-known effects of alcohol that it lowers inhibitions? yes, she chooses to drink voluntarily, but she should hypothetically be able to drink as much as she wants without fear of unwanted sexual advances.
you really don’t know that it was unwanted. if it were that unwanted, she’d have said “no”, regardless of being hammered.
If she wants to drnk as much as she wants with out sexual advances, be a lady and drink in the home, or with good friends. There are risks with anything fun you do, drinking unfortunatly (here is where my government sponsored education kicks in) will kill you or get u pregnant! (and note YOU WIL LGET PREGNANT YOUR FIRST TIME AND U WILL CATCH AIDS! even if both u and your partner are clean, aids is created when 2 virgins have premaritale sex, its true!
)
Attercop ~ I don’t know where you live, but in the USA, if you drive drunk and kill someone YOU are responsible. I stand by my original statement, before you chose to skew it.
There shouldn’t be a double standard, should there? Both people are drunk, both consent to it, but the man is charged with rape later. That’s bullshit. It’s not right to hold one person accountable for their actions, and not another.
ive drank with my ex boyfriend before and weve had sex… i remember being a little upset in the morning because i figured i was too wasted for him to think of that… apparently i not only agreed… but pushed the topic… i dont remember that at all… so i dunno…
Hmmm…this is one of those situational things that is gray for me. If one person is drunk and the other is not, I definitely do not think that they should have sex. I consider it taking advantage of someone who is not in their right mind. Yes, the person chose to drink, but just because you’re drinking doesn’t mean you want sex. Also, even if someone agrees to a shower or oral sex, that does NOT mean they want intercourse. Someone does not have to actually say no to mean they don’t want sex, though they definitely should.
I’m not too sure how I feel about a case in which both people are drunk…that’s the gray line. I definitely think that is is a dangerous precedent to set to just say that you can always give consent when you’re drunk. Circumstances are important. In a perfect world we would all be able to tell how drunk we’re getting easily, and we would only drink with friends who would never consider taking advantage of us. I think that by saying that if you’re drinking that you deserve what you get (including rape) is as horrible as saying that “If you’re wearing a short skirt, you deserve to be raped.” That’s just victim blaming. People (men and women) should be able to be safe.
Aquaintance rape or rape in a relationships happens one hell of a lot more often than stranger rape–keep that in mind.
Having said all that, I do think that it’s important to determine as well as possible if rape occurred in all cases because there is a huge stigma that follows people deemed rapists (as there should be). It can ruin someone’s life. If someone’s a victim, then they’ve already had a part of their life ruined, and end up suffering again during the trial.
…I wish I lived in a world where rape didn’t exist…
They can I dont think they should but they can.
Just because you dont remember it doesnt mean your drunk ass wasnt ok with it.
Dont get so hammered next time.
That is all
Attercop ~ I don’t know where you live, but in the USA, if you drive drunk and kill someone YOU are responsible. I stand by my original statement, before you chose to skew it.
Posted 3/27/2007 11:49 AM by Building_A_Mystery
umm, I live in America, I know that people are held liable when they serve people alcohol and let them drive.
So, it’s technically, not just you, it’s others too.
The point is…when you choose to drink you are still responsible for your actions. She put herself in that situation. As a previous bartender I have seen women, AND men, do some stupid things and end up walking the hall of shame the next day. Admit you messed up, but don’t blame someone else.
Don’t ruin someone else’s life because you can’t handle what you put into your own body.
I’m curious, has she been out drinking since?
Ah Blackouts, a time-honored traditon.
I think so.
Yes you can. Even though the decisions you make while drunk probably differ from the decisions you would normally make, you can still consent to sex.
i have never been drunk. . .but aren’t there different levals of drunk? if she was passed out, then it would seem he took advantage of her condition. you can’t give consent if you are passed out.
I think that we have to be really careful with this, because if you can give consent while drunk, then all you need to do to get laid is to go to a party and find the most drunk person there, and do your deed with no penalty.
I think I drunk person can consent to sex but only to a certain extent. What she’s talking about waking up to discover him having sex with her, that sounds like she blacked out or something and if that’s the case then that is definetely wrong.
legally or morally?
from a legal point of view, assuming you got drunk voluntarily (ie, no one spiked your drink while you weren’t looking), you’re on the hook for consenting to sex. sorry, but you have to live with the consequences of your actions. get drunk behind closed doors if you don’t want to have any unpleasant encounters.
from a moral point of view, you have to be pretty low to take advantage of a drunk girl.
Well… I mean… she said she didn’t remember anything… so who knows what happened. She could have agreed, or she could have been raped. Eh… thats a toughy!
nope
if she was passed out, she could not have given her consent. Unfortunately it is always going to be her words against his. What makes me worry about this is how it will effect people who are drugged etc.
I do think you can give consent to a certain extent when you are drunk. I do think that drinking to the point that you pass out in public is extremely risky behavior.
Depends on how drunk.
well, she let him in the shower with her. she’s shouldn’t complain when she made the decision to drink way too much
erm…did anyone think about a situation where date rape drugs are used? meaning, the rapist puts in a colourless, odourless substance into the victim’s drink or food which will make the victim incredibly vulnerable? because it does happen a lot.
No.
Another reason not to drink.
yeah, but theres no way to prove it either way. word against word
nopeeee
Great opinions. I think people are confusing direct consequences with secondary and even tertiary consequences. Sure it’s your choice to get drunk and you should suffer the consequences, eg a hangover/headache, vomiting etc. But, when you involve an exterior influence, a dude/dudette who wants to sleep with you and they possibly have had less to drink and have a clearer head, then we’re passed the stage of a direct consequence and then the point is debatable whether the person deserves to be in that situation.
Yes, just like a drunk person can rape someone.
I think its a stupid idea to drink too much around someone you didn’t trust
They can consent but their judgement is impaired.
Rape is forced sexual intercourse. If you’re willingly having sex with someone, no matter what condition you are in, it’s not rape.
If you’re too drunk to remember that you consented, that’s kind of your own fault.
No. When someone is drunk they aren’t in control of their actions. I thought this was proven!!
when you choose to drink irresponsibly you choose every decision you made while you were drunk.
Slightly intoxicated, sure. But I guess it depends on the person and how drunk they are.
depends how drunk they are
Not sure how I feel about this.
No…drinking knocks the sense out of you.
I dont know how anyone would have to have sex with anyone who is drunk. YUCK.
Yeah, if they’re drunk it’s their own fault. Don’t whine about in the morning. And I’m glad the guy didn’t get charged for rape because too often they’re the one blamed.
Yes. If you don’t think you can handle yourself when drunk, and make responsible choices, then make the responsible choice and don’t drink in the first place.
We aren’t talking about a child or someone who was forced to drink against their will. We aren’t talking about someone who thought they were drinking one thing and had something else put in their glass.
We are talking about a responsible adult who chose to get drunk, and made a bad choice as a result. No different than the hundreds of thousands of people sitting in jail because they chose to drink, and made the bad choice of driving afterwards.
Why is it the person’s fault if they drive drunk and hurt someone, but not their fault if they go home with a guy drunk and decide to have sex in their inebriated state?
Posted 3/27/2007 8:22 AM by Building_A_Mystery
i agreeeeeeeee!!
i don’t know. i go fifty-fifty one this subject.
charliesgirl_21(jess)
What is the legal limit for “doing it under the influence?” .
I’m with saucysweetie
When you’re drunk, isn’t there at least some form of sense? There should be enough that one still knows how to have sex.
hell mother fucking no.
the same shit happened to me and people wanted to kill me over it because they thought I made it up.
hell. mother. fucking. no.
I agree with that verdict. Would it be more responsible to NOT sleep with someone who’s drunk. Yes. But he was drunk too, so yes, irresponsibility abounds. But nothing illegal.
Yeah, maybe. But then again, maybe not. In this case, it’s not like one of them is some sort of criminal, they were BOTH wasted.
yeah but if sum1 drinks so much that they cant give consent, their first mistake was drinking that much…know ur limittttsss ya dumasss
I don’t think it would be fair since they’re not in their normal state of mind. They’re intoxicated…
it depends on how drunk you are.
If you drink, you are responsible for what happens afterward. Same thing in regards to sex… if you have sex, you are responsible for the outcome.
YES.
And I am always right.
I wouldn’t let someone off the hook for being on meth, crack or heroin. Why booze? You DO know what you are doing, no matter how much of (most) ANY drug.
No excuse. Throw the book at drunk thugs and not the drunk horny friends.
Maybe get new friends and excersize discretion though…
Yes, they can. Building_A_Mystery described it best, I believe.
Furthermore, if both the male and female were inebriated, why is the blame going to the male discussing the FEMALE’S consent? …
Yes. Why can they be held accountable for breaking the law but not for consenting to sex?
technically, when you say a person’s “drunk”, it means to be incapable of thinking straight due to the excessive intake of alcohol … which results to immobility and speech difficulties … therefore, a person at this state saying yes to sex is not consent …
With the amount of alcohol that she consumed, there is no way that she would have logically been able to consent to sexual intercourse…Not being able to get consent is like having no consent at all, and thus would be defined as rape according to British ruling. But those are just my thoughts.
I don’t think so. You are drunk. Which means you aren’t thinking clearly.
Yep.
NO
Yes, he or she can consent. Of course, there is no sure way of knowing whether he or she would consent if sober. But it seems to me that by getting so drunk, both the man and the woman took responsibility. It seems unfair to place the blame on one. And concerning the issues of legality, determining a certain level of drunkenness afterwards seems impossible.
To give consent as in to agree? well yes but that doesn’t mean you knew what you were doing.
Alcohol inhibits judgement, so I don’t really think so.
But then again, she’s the one who chose to get trashed in the first place. She should know she would not be able to make decisions.
[ariana]