being “good” doesn’t get you into heaven anyway soo…
that’s a dumb question.
You’r good deeds can’t save you.
Hm… Bad christian is kind of an oxymoron.
If you’re bad, then you’re not REALLY a Christian.
Or at least, that’s my view.
I guess I’ll change my answer to neither.
And in the 5 seconts it tool me to type that you got 7 comments.
Who cares.
THEY SHOULD BOTH BURN IN HELLLL ARGHHHHHDGFJHZJJX
i’m just kidding by the way
*took
Hi Dan…interesting question* could write a whole post about that one…take care..Lee
that’s the thing that’s so contradictory about god/christianity. i don’t have an answer for you.
a bad Christian who believes that Christ is their savior. Atheists don’t so they dont get into heaven b/c they dont believe there’s a heaven or God anyway.
I think it depends on how faithful the person was to the knowledge that they had.
paris hilton
assuming you mean a christian who fails to uphold the bible in every sense: the christian
if you’re talking about a christian who makes no striving, doesn’t pray, doesn’t care, and still rests on the fact that he’s a decently good person: neither
There are no good Christians.
A good atheist. Duhhh.
Are you people seriously saying that your God would rather let in a terrible person, who had done so many bad things in their lifetime, and hated people, than an atheist who loved everyone they came into contact with and did a lot to help people?
That sounds crazy to me.
Christians are sinners too.
Unfortunately bad Christians.
I think that God will decide who will enter into paradise with Him, and the criteria for such judgement goes well beyond behavior and religious beliefs. Still, I’m sure that there are plenty of atheist who are in Heaven, and plenty of Christians who are in Hell. I think the best thing for anyone to do, firstly, is to trust and hope and then to live their life in a way that reflects those things. If you live in a way that reflects your great hope and trust that God will accept you into Heaven, you inevitably (I feel) live in a way that is good and pleasing to Him. But I have no way of knowing for sure… well, I just hope that I’m right!
I honestly don’t know. I’m not enough of a believer to say that only Christians can possibly get into heaven, because even though that is what I’ve been taught, I don’t believe in my heart that is true. I would suppose the “correct” answer would be that neither would get into heaven, one because s/he did not accept Christ as her savior, and one because their acts kept them out of heaven.
I have trouble believing, though, that a just God would keep a truly good and decent person out of heaven just because they in good faith and with all conscience did not believe in Him. It seems almost egotistical to me, something which I know God is not. I’d appreciate gentle input otherwise if you think I’m wrong.
Also, I would submit to those who think this is a dumb question that you have the option of simply not answering it, or else [politely] explaining your views.
The only way to salvation is through Christ.
only if they have dedicated their life to Christ
I’d rather go to fucking hell than spend eternity with you christian panty-waists.
“An immortal Peter; Who could stand him?!”
Oh, and your dogma says a bad Christian. Guess I luck out.
A guy dies and goes to Heaven, he meets St. Peter at the gates of heaven. He asks to be let in and St.Peter tells him that the way this will work is the guy will tell him all of the good things that he did on earth and St. Peter will assign each good deed a point value. When the guy reaches 1,000 points he will be let into heave. The guy said this sounded reasonable, and so he told Peter about how he had been married to the same woman for the last 50 years and never cheated on his wife. Peter said that sounds great, I’ll give you three points. The guy said okay, I have three kids and each one serves God in different ways, I have a kid who is a minister, a kid that is a missionary and my youngest is a TV evangelist. Peter said excellant each one will earn you 1 point. At this point the guy interrupts Peter and asks how many points does he need? Peter replied 1000. How many points do I have? asked the dead guy. Peter replied 6. At this point the dead guy exclaimed “at this rate the only way I will get into heaven is by the grace of God. Peter stepped aside and said welcome come on in.
To answer your question, since it is by the grace of God and not because of works. the bad christian will get in every time.
why would an atheist want to go to a Christian heaven? also, why do atheists think they have the right to define a Christian god? Either atheists should make up their own god, or they should stop trying to reimagine the Christian God.
Christians go to Christian heaven. Atheists just die. Agnostics… well, they’ll find out.
…if an atheist doesn’t believe in god, and is then accepted into heaven, they wouldn’t be an atheist any more… would they? o_O
Anyone who says that I or any other atheist is going to heaven because we’re moral is missing the fact that this means you can necessarily work your way into heaven — the bible is pretty clear that you’re saved by grace, not works.
But heaven doesn’t exist. Oooooh.
the pope
Christian fruitcake, I like your story.
i’m a good atheist! hah Well from my perspective, neither will go to heaven for i believe there is no such thing.
Yo momma.
Everyone’s going to heaven. . .
We didn’t ask to be born, did we?
And I don’t see how God can be so cruel as to give us an eternity in hell. . .
The bad Christian.
One MUST believe in Jesus Christ to enter the Kingdom of God. That is truth, solid truth. So, an atheist can not enter Heaven.
However, a “bad” Christian, or someone who didn’t completely serve Jesus on earth will not receive a reward in Heaven. We still DO reap what we sew.
Neither — being good or bad doesn’t cut it. God looks at the heart. It depends if you have a personal relationship with Him. My guess is that neither of them do… but only God knows.
Bad Christian.
The only way to Heaven is through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and although the Christian may be “bad” they have accepted Christ.
As for the atheist, there’s no such thing as “good” when it comes to salvation.
“why would an atheist want to go to a Christian heaven? also, why do atheists think they have the right to define a Christian god? Either atheists should make up their own god, or they should stop trying to reimagine the Christian God.
Christians go to Christian heaven. Atheists just die. Agnostics… well, they’ll find out.
Posted 3/29/2007 4:39 PM by Bokgwai”
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian?
neither.
I thought the path to the glorious afterlife was to bomb the infidels.
Depends on who you’re asking… if you’re asking an atheist.. welll… that doesn’t really matter.. and if you’re asking a christian… it’s the christian… and if you’re asking someone who really has no clue.. they’ll say anyone who is good…. which doesn’t necessarily mean that the christan won’t and the atheist will.. it all depends on how good and how bad we’re talking.
“Everyone’s going to heaven. . .
We didn’t ask to be born, did we?
And I don’t see how God can be so cruel as to give us an eternity in hell. . . Posted 3/29/2007 4:42 PM by TransexualTwat”
You people will rationalize all day so that you can keep believing in god and heaven and angels and whatever else you toss into that crock of care-bear bullshit that you believe in.
God sending people to hell doesn’t make sense? It’s not that contradictory when you consider all the people he killed in the old testament. Maybe, just maybe, God doesn’t exist. But then you wouldn’t get to believe in a heaven that you go to with a loving god, and spend eternity with all of your loved ones and friends, would you? Good reasons are not criterion for belief in god and and afterlife — all you need is to be a wishful thinker.
According to the God that I’ve been hearing about, he would accept the bad Christian.
But the god I wish existed? Would let in both.
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian?
Posted 3/29/2007 4:45 PM by ComaWhiteX
I would have to say that you wouldn’t enter Heaven because you said nothing to the fact of accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, believing that He died on the cross for your sins, etc.
They’ll both not get in, they’re about the same
This is fun, Matthew 7:21-23, from The Message:
“Knowing the correct password—saying ‘Master, Master,’ for instance— isn’t going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’
–Jesus
The “bad” Christian. We’re all “bad” Christians because we’re all sinners. Salvation isn’t dependent on whether or not we are “good,” but whether or not we accept Christ. That, unfortunately, eliminates the atheist. The good news is, salvation is available to them as well, whenever they happen to decide to accept Him.
“To answer your question, since it is by the grace of God and not because of works. the bad christian will get in every time.”
That whole story was sweet and whatnot, but it’s kind of lame. I’m pretty sure this “bad Christian” isn’t just an average guy with a great family like the one in your story. The only reason you may have titled him “bad” is because he couldn’t think up 1000 good things he’s done. How many of us could? That’s ridiculous. This isn’t “bad.” This is average. This is normal.
I don’t know where I’m going with that. Never mind.
neither
As long as you give all of youself to him you’re in..
the end
Personally, my view of God is that he is like the ultimate parent. A parent who wants to teach his children as much as he can, help them when they’re down, support them through thick and thin, and offer them unconditional love. My view of God is that he is very forgiving. If the Christian in question is “bad” (which is subjective in and of itself), I’m sure God would be willing to forgive that person and offer him/her a second chance. As for the athiest, I also think he’d forgive him or her. I guess it also matters on the “good” and “bad.” If by good, you mean that this person respects others and tries to do good by others, is kind, caring, considerate, etc… I’m sure God would have no problem letting this person into heaven.
Of course, I don’t personally believe in hell, because God in my eyes as a father would not want to put his children through eternal torture.
A bad Christian because he or she will ask for forgiveness at the last minute.
These answers I’m seeing are actually.. EXTREMELY LAME. Most people are saying the bad Christian.
So, basically, it doesn’t matter what you do in life, as long as you’re born into Christianity and you live calling yourself one and believing all that ish?
Fucking ridiculous.
Is there a naked man on the newspaper in the lower right hand corner?
bad christian
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian? Posted 3/29/2007 4:45 PM by ComaWhiteX
Tongue in cheek, friend. Read back over what I said. “Atheists should make up their own god…” haha… atheists don’t believe in god, period. they don’t believe in an afterlife… therefore, they just die.
“agnostics… I guess they’ll find out.” agnostics don’t know if there is a god or a heaven. If there is one, they don’t know which one it is. thusly, “they’ll find out.”
I say this all jokingly, but there is underlying truth. Christians do indeed go to a Christian heaven. And agnostics will truly one day find out. Now, if you’re concerned about going to hell, then perhaps now is the time to do some research and find out more about the Christian God. If you’re not so concerned about going to hell, then don’t get so worked up over a silly comment on a silly question.
“If a person is ashamed of me and my message, I , the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when I return in my glory and in the glory of the Father and the holy angels.”
WishingOnKarma,
These answers I’m seeing are actually.. EXTREMELY LAME. Most people are saying the bad Christian.
So, basically, it doesn’t matter what you do in life, as long as you’re born into Christianity and you live calling yourself one and believing all that ish?
Fucking ridiculous. Posted 3/29/2007 4:51 PM by WishingOnKarma
Read the Bible: “Knowing the correct password—saying ‘Master, Master,’ for instance— isn’t going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’
–Jesus Matthew 7:21-23
Bad Christian. Entrance to heaven is not based on works. Sin is sin to God.
Romans 3:10-11, 23 says: “There is no one righteous, not even one; no one who understands, no one who seeks God. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”
A result of sin is death
Romans 6:23 says: “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.”
A gift is free, you don’t have to do anything for it and it available to all, you just have to accept the gift. After all, how can you have a gift, if you dont accept it first.
Romans 10: 9-10, 13 says: “If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your hear that you believe and are justified, and it is wht your mouth that you confess and are saved. For, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’”
So many religions believe that good works give you good results, but in Christianity it doesn’t work that way. Everyone has sinned. God hates sin. God, however, loves us, so he offers a free gift of salvation. He sent Jesus, the blameless one, to take the sin for us. That is why the cross is so important. It represents the death of our sins. Jesus died in our place. If Christianity was based around good works, then the death of Jesus would be unnecessary.
The only reason Christians should do good things is out of thankfulness for the sacrifice made for them.
Romans 12: 1 says: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God – this is your spiritual act of worship.”
thats from Luke 9:25
I think a person that did worthwhile things with their life and helped and loved is more deserving than someone that hurt others and didn’t live their life well, no matter what they claim to believe.
What exactly makes a “good person,” anyway?
Luckily, that’s not my decision to decide.
I have a fucking headache.
ha. if god existed, and was everything people claimed him to be, then the good atheist. but god doesn’t exist. so, neither.
You assholes have a strong metaphysical need.
You assholes have a strong metaphysical need. Posted 3/29/2007 5:01 PM by Yohsiph
ouch! namecalling! You don’t sound like a good atheist today…
Okay, I guess my real question is, what makes a person //bad//? What makes them a bad Christian? Specifically? Because I guess it isn’t what I’m thinking.
Both…but only if the atheist has received and accepted the salvation message!
Nobody goes to heaven…
The problem with anyone going anywhere because they were good is the problem with morality itself: it’s relative. There is not absolute, eternal, unchanging good or evil, and so it’s ridiculous to say that a person can go to heaven for doing something “good” because to the person they did it to, or perhaps in another culture, it could be bad.
For instance, it used to be acceptable for a woman to marry at the age of 15 to a man who was 25. Not today! The guy would be called a “sick” pedophile, a cradle-robber, and probably going to hell.
Maybe you fucking ignorant jackasses should wise up and realize that there’s complete other world of things to learn about, not just outside country you live in, but in the past also; there’s a lot more to life and living it that what you bible has to say about it, and morality is so fucking diverse you can’t go kicking down the doors to other people’s cultures and saying they need to ask some fucking hippy into their heart — they wont know what the fuck you’re talking about and hopefully they’ll impale you for attempting to poison life with your sick ascetic morality.
An atheists has rejected God. I don’t see God forcing someone to spend eternity with him.
dan… you post these questions knowing people will argue for hours, no?
John 14:6- Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
those who do not believe will not be admitted into heaven. those who do, will be.
I don’t believe in God, actually.. but if I did, I wouldn’t believe in Christian God.. my philosophy is if there is a God, he’ll punish everyone’s shortcomings and reward everyone’s wrongdoings.. so there’ll be good and bad for us all in the afterlife, should it exist.
This is rather a slanted question, opposing Christian to atheist, as thought to say that a non-Christian is an atheist. What about a good – or bad – Buddhist, Muslim etc? But to stick with the question: if the Christian is a “bad Christian,” then why should he fare any better than an atheist. I do believe that one of the gospels says that the blessing is in the doing, not the hearing and that at some time many will say “I called you Lord,” to which he will wisper back into their shell-like ear “I never knew you.”
the bad christian.
everyone sins, and severity of sins is a myth. all sins are equally bad. so, unless the aitheist is absolutely sinnless, the christian (no matter how bad whatever he did was) will go to heaven, simply because of his relationship with christ.
peace, love, hummer JP
Bad Christian probably.
Eh, it’s ok, God’s kind of a dick.
If God is as good as he’s made out to be, a “Christian” who committed horrible crimes, even though they say they “asked God to forgive him” should be lower on the list than an atheist who spent they’re lives helping people & being kind to everyone.
Now, an atheist who went through life being hostile to all believers, that’s different. But most atheists I know are incredible people and much kinder than most Christians I have met.
I don’t know who’d make it into Heaven though.
Neither. Only those who claim the blood of Jesus will be allowed in.
neither. I’ve noticed that lot of people are giving simple Sunday school answers, saying that all you need to do is believe in Christ. There is so much more than that–I have several atheist friends who will agree that Jesus existed and was a good teacher–in fact even Satan believes that. Salvation is not just believe in Christ, it is allowing Christ to run your life.
“If you’re bad than you’re not REALLY a Christian.”
What??? Are we believing in the same Scriptures?? The Scriptures that say “There is none righteous; No not one”? Jesus makes us righteous through His sacrifice, but does that mean that the root of us is not bad? Does that mean that we are still not guilty of the sins of this world and fallen into human depravity? Of course not. Jesus has saved me and redeemed me, but that does not make me without failure.
God is an asshole, so I’d say the bad Christian.
What heaven?
You die, and end up a rotting remnant of carbon lifeform. The end.
a bad Christian at least their name is in the book of life
Man you all need to read some Augustine. Just quoting some Sunday school answers and sharing a few Bible verses doesn’t mean you understand it. I think that the Bible is true, yes, and therefore I think that when you quote Scripture (as long as you are using it in context, which some of you are) then you are sharing truth. BUT, I can make truth claims until I die, but knowing the truth and understanding the truth are way different.
Haha, you guys worry about heaven, I will be chilling here on earth when I am reincarnated yet again.
Look for Jesus and paradise all you want, I am just a single spirit soul trying to make my way back to Krishna after experiencing paradise on earth, material living.
Y’all are wack, but that’s the Christian in me speaking, not the Hindu
HARE KRISHNA!
This question makes my head hurt…
Neither; both aren’t Mormon
Eh, neither.
neither good question.
Haha. I love South Park :]
A good atheist.
well since athiests dont believe in God, then not them, but if youre a “bad” christian than you probably arent truly a christian so neither, everyone sins, thats a given, you cant expect to have a true relationship with Christ and not try to turn away from your sin
The bad Christian.. because they still believe.
Neither.
Nonbelievers aren’t alowed in. And the bad christian won’t either.
Of course the good athiest would ask “God? Heaven?” That’s something for the bad Christian to work out.
We cannot know for sure. We as humans cannot see into the heart of either one to know what is in there. It is possible that they are both only pretending to be what we see.
The key to heaven is in accepting Christ into your heart, which is also what it takes to be a christian. Unfortunately we have altered being a Christian into simply going to church.
Well what matters is what God word says:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:9-11
That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:15-17
God saves His enemies and makes them His friends and He changes their lives although the changing isn’t complete until Heaven. If someone hasn’t surrendured their lives to Christ then they are still enemies of God even if they did “good” things if they havn’t loved God with all their heart soul mind and strength and loved their neighbor as themselves perfectly they have broken God’s law and aren’t good enough to enter Heaven on their own. We need Christ’s righteousness to cover our sin. end of story. There arn’t any other ways to be right with God. Once we have asked God for forgiveness He begins to change our lives.
It is sad how many churches today don’t preach what the Bible says but rather preach that we can actually be good enough for God. Why would Jesus Christ, the Son of God DIE on the cross if we were good enough to get into Heaven without Him?
good atheist
Bad Christian.
Atheist won’t get in because he doesn’t believe it exists.
As a non-believer in heaven, I’m not entirely sure how to answer this question…
Getting into heaven isn’t about being good enough. No one is good enough. Breaking the law at one point disqualifies you.
That being the case, the only way to “get in” is for your punishment to be paid by someone else. Jesus died to pay that punishment.
A person who rejects God, no matter how great of a citizen/neighbor/parent/whatever, can’t be good enough.
A Christian accepts Jesus’ death on his/her behalf.
A Christian who is “bad” walks a dangerous line. Living an unrepentant life leads to apostasy.
It’s all or nothing. Nobody will achieve all on their own merits.
I may expand this and include Scripture later when I have more time. I may not.
“Good” and “Bad” are weak descriptions of a man’s character. But honestly, if you think about it in hte big picture – an atheist doesn’t believe in God. But whatever, God judges people in whatever way He wishes. He forgives who He pleases.
My friend, niether one of them. John 3:6 says you must be born again(or saved). By the merits of you own work useless. Dur righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God. It takes the blood of Jesus to cleanse all the unrighteousness we have and we must put on the righteousness of Christ. C.S.
I believe Jesus said at one point that many people would say to him, “Lord, Lord….blah blah blah…” and he said, “Depart from me, you evil doers. I don’t know you.”
the person who gets into heaven will be the one who fed the hungry, loved the orphan and the elderly, visited the sick and the people in prison, gave a loser a chance to be a winner, made peace instead of war, loved instead of hated, forgave instead of held a grudge….
Lots and lots of modern day pharisees think they are on the fast road to heaven.
I think they might have a big surprise awaiting them.
Love is the greatest out of hope, faith, and love. Just live your life out of love for people, and if you believe in God, for God. God’s mercy is infinite.
I agree with Ancient_Scribe.
A) there aren’t any “good” people.
B) deeds alone can’t save you.
Thus, the Christian. It’s like a, “Glad to see you, but too bad you didn’t do anything worthwhile on Earth.” moment.
I’d say good atheist though. Do we know the person’s heart? Do we know the bad Christian’s heart? No, we do not. Only God can decide, because only He knows your heart along with yourself.
Anna_Lanche put it well.
Well, you have to be a Christian to go to heaven, so it would definately be the Christian. Good works don’t get you to heaven.
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
A GOOD ATHEIST hands down. there are people who are “better” (im not saying they dont sin either, cuz everyone does) than christians yet are not religious. THEY will go to heaven over a LABELED CHRISTIAN who just goes to church just for the name. even God will recognize who truly deserves to be in Heaven.
i think some christians feel that just because they “believe” in him, they will go to Heaven. I dont think that is true, AT ALL.
bad Christian is an oxymoron
& in response to the people who are sayingi that “the only way into heaven is through Jesus,” that doesn’t mean JUST believing in him. you’re taking a passage out of context. it means following through 100%, which means following what the Bible says, INCLUDING being a good person, aka INCLUDING good deeds.
For all you Christians who said the latter: guess what, you CAN lose your salvation. Oh, so you murdered someone and still think you have a ticket to Heaven? Go to confession, or you make hell your home.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21.
I have no clue because I am not God, I am just taking a guess that it would be the latter. Yeah, we’re saved by the grace of God! But you can lose that grace. Has anyone here died? If so, tell me if there are former atheists in heaven.
Who knows, maybe good atheists will have a change of heart after they die. Maybe good atheists have a choice, and then they can either take the eternal joy or eternal unhappiness. Your choice!
“I’d rather die than go to heaven!” -William Murderface
What’s the point in claiming to be a religion if you don’t practice it?
Vague terms like “good” or “bad” can be dangerous, precisely because they are so vague.
What does it take to be a “good” person? Is 100% moral perfection required, or will something less be adequate? Is someone who is moral 99% of the time a “good” person? What about 98%? 90%? 75%? 50% or less?
See, it’s that kind of sliding scale that makes these terms so … well, relative. A shoplifter is good, if compared to a rapist. Someone who gives half of all he owns to charity is bad, compared to someone who gives 90% of all he owns.
Usually, people use themselves as a marker. People think “someone who is worse than me is bad, someone who is better than me is good.”
So what does God think? Actually, God uses Himself as a marker. Anyone who is worse than Him is bad, anyone who is as good as Him is good. (There isn’t any getting better than God, since God is perfect.)
By that definition, how many of us are good? None at all. So in reality, there are no “good athiests”, just as there are no good Christians or good Jews or good Buddhists or whatever.
What about the “bad Christian”? Only God knows for sure. We mortals, who have limited knowledge and perception into a person’s heart, simply don’t have the tools at hand to make a sound determination.
However, if a person calls himself a Christian, yet lives like an unbeliever, I’ll treat him like the Christian he claims to be. I’ll point out how he’s living and how it doesn’t match up with what he’s saying. I’ll tell him about how his lifestyle is not only hurting his own life, but the lives of those around him as well. And I’ll also remind him that the unbelieving world is watching, and when they see him living in unrepentant sin it makes them more callous to their own need for salvation. The rest, really, is between him and God. I can tell my “bad” Christian brothers and sisters about their need to repent, but I can’t make their choices for them.
I don’t see how a logical person who honestly believes in heaven would be able to think that simply believing in something makes you better than someone else. If I was born in a cave and was never presented with the idea of God, or Jesus, but lived my life better than say Hitler, who was a devote Christian– and you’re gonna tell me he’s gonna get in and I’m not then you’re an idiot.
being good doesn’t get u into heaven…accepting God does…so a bad christian just might get in
In the Bible, Jesus said, “There is none good but God alone.” A ‘good’ atheist is a non-existant entity, and a TRUE Christian will live a life of goodness by the grace of God. If a Christian is living in deliberate sin, unrepentant, it is sufficient proof that they are not “in Christ” and will not inheret His kingdom.
I think everyone gets in eventually… but if youre really bad you probably go to Hell & work your way out of it.. or maybe not.
why would God want some one who didn’t believe in Him in heaven?
neither
Luther says the bad Christian (faith alone!), Zwingli says both (though I am less sure that he would admit the atheist, but he did expect to see Socrates in heaven), and Calvin says whoever is of the elect and predestined to go to heaven. Sorry, I just took a Religion test.
a bad christian. you have to believe that God died on the Cross for your sins to get into Heaven.
Hmmm…the good athiest…although, I am agnostic, so I don’t really care (I’m apathetic too!)
A bad christian, undoubtedly.
You have to believe, not have good works.
Heaven doesn’t exist. Even as a Christian, only about 5 years ago, I didn’t conceive heaven as a place, but a state of being. Often it baffles me when Christians assert a physical existence of heaven, god, or the soul. Slightly ridiculous in my opinion.
People are assuming a lot on the basis of Christian/Atheist. But there are a lot of other religions out there… does your Christian god accept them into heaven by your strict ideals or what? What if someone never comes into contact with Christianity, ever in their life, and cannot make the choice to “accept Jesus Christ into their heart?” Technically, your god made them, right? So does he still welcome them into his kingdom? Does your god hate all of the little babies in the world who aren’t baptized or choose to “accept Jesus Christ into their hearts?’
There is so much flawed thinking in Christianity… and many good goddamned reasons why people leave such a silly faith! Also, I laugh in the face of anyone who honestly thinks “bad Christian” is an oxymoron. How absurd! Oh dearie me.
One day I will die and somehow something’s gonna steal my carbon… and maybe I’ll be fortunate enough to live again. I’d like to.
Neither deserve heaven because no one does. Only the repentant sinner who has faith in the finished work of Christ upon the cross and His resurrection has the hope of heaven. It’s not earned, it’s grace and can only be received by faith.
it’s not about being good or bad. it’s about believing that Jesus Christ is God’s Son and you have asked Him to be the Savior of your life. We are all sinners… The athiest needs to accept Christ to get to heaven.
i’m an agnostic catholic and to my knowledge in the bible no one goes to heaven
There are no good people, but the “bad Christian” will be accepted into Heaven.
a good atheist,no doubt about it…bc in the Bible it says that God looks more harshly on those who sin knowingly(already knowing Him)…so yea..
gina
I go with the good atheist.
Also funny: “Atheists don’t believe in heaven, so they can’t get in.”
Believing makes it real?
that’s if you actually believe in that stuff. I guess a good atheist. but God loves & forgives everyone, no?
good atheist but that question can be answered differently depending on if ur a christian or not
No-one’s good. It’s this little thing called We-All-Suck-At-Being-Human (also known as original sin or total depravity).
So it’s not a question of whether God will turn away good people–because there are no good people to turn away. The real question is, why should he let any of us in?
well all christians are bad aren’t they… because we all sin… so the christian. although, i’ve always had trouble believing that my athiest father won’t make it to heaven. if i believe in his salvation, would he?
My religious situation is complicated. First off, Christianity is my least favorite religion, so don’t try to convert me. Buddhism (although not technically a religion) is probably my favorite, because they use gods as metaphors, and don’t actually believe that there’s some all powerful dude hanging around controlling our lives.
What I do believe however, that there was an initial force that kinda pushed the whole universe(s) into motion. I doubt whatever force that was is still hanging around and talking shit to the non-believers, but I’m fairly sure that it must have existed at some point. So yeah, I don’t believe in a single entity, but more like something that could be likened to electricity, or gravity. I think the Greeks called it ether.
God is a real asshole if he’d take someone like Hitler over an atheist that did good works, but just not in his name. That’s another thing that pisses me off about Christians, nothing is truly a good work unless it was done in the name of Christ the savior or whatever, and no one is truly a good person unless they “accept” that.
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t.
I like the way Alistair Begg explains it:
“It’s not like heaven is a place where the good people go and hell is the place where the bad people go. The bad people go one of 2 places: To heaven–and never deservingly or to hell and never unwillingly.
No one goes to heaven deservingly, and no one goes to hell unwillingly. Heaven is a place for sinners who trust in God for salvation and hell is a place for sinners who choose not to trust in God for salvation .”
good atheist, mainly because i don’t believe the crap about “if you believe jesus is your savior you’ll go to heaven” (i believe he is my savior, but i dont in the last bit think that will get me into heaven)
Bad Christian. That’s the way it works, or so I’ve come to understand.
I do know in the middle ages even being a good Catholic wasn’t quite enough to get you in; you were supposed to be educated, too.
Bummer for all the illiterates, yeah?
The Christian – salvation (and therefore Heaven) is based on some very clear instructions, which is through Jesus Christ alone. No man is good enough apart from Christ.
bad christians are like bad cops-horrid
but that doesn’t mean that all good christians are perfect, but they should strive to be.
so, I vote for neither
A “bad” Christian…but, while I believe we are all sinners and there are Christians who do things they shouldn’t, there are those who claim to be Christians and really are not. These people may appear like bad Christians (some may even appear good) to the world, and I do not believe that these people will be saved.
Jesus is the way…without him, you’re not getting in.
I know this soudns cliche, but I think heaven and hell is a state of mind.
Human beings weren’t designed to reside in “heaven”. I think a few will make it there, but the vast majority of humanity will always reside in the physical realm.
So, to answer your question, neither.
-Isaac
N/A
neither?
a “good” atheist, does that mean someone with moral values ? xD
a christian can be a “bad” christian and still have good morals, but just not go to mass on sundays. So that means that a bad christian is the same as a good atheist. ergo, i think that they’ll both make it xP that’s personal belief. God made humans flawed, i figure as long as u dont comment a mortal sin u’re fine. u dont need to be a christian to repent for venal sin…
Those damned Atheists! When will they learn!? Being a good Christian, and thus, going to heaven, has nothing to do with doing good in the world, it’s about proclaiming your love for God and Christ! God doesn’t care what you do as long as you pamper his vain personality into believing you love him. Damn those Atheists. Literally.
Even the best sort of an Atheist, one who spends his entire life in the service of others, one who lives his entire life giving, and helping, and doing good unto others… he’s not the kind God wants in heaven. Noooo, God has standards, you know.
“a “good” atheist, does that mean someone with moral values ?
a christian can be a “bad” christian and still have good morals, but just not go to mass on sundays. So that means that a bad christian is the same as a good atheist.” Posted 3/29/2007 7:49 PM by outmate
Egads! What a piece of brilliant detective work there. Logic is the best friend of any Christian, it seems.
“Human beings weren’t designed to reside in “heaven”. I think a few will make it there, but the vast majority of humanity will always reside in the physical realm.” Posted 3/29/2007 7:45 PM by IsaacRW
The ‘physical realm’? Isn’t that the ‘real’ world, ‘twixt heaven and hell? Does… that mean immortality? If so… wooot! Cancel my coffin commission.
Bad Christian.
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t. Posted 3/29/2007 7:04 PM by Far_Skies
That’s just scary as a view-point…
Wow you people really do scare me. This is my problem with religion…it doesn’t matter how good of a person you are.
A bad christian. If you believe in God from the Christian perspective, you will know that because of sin, nobody on earth is “good.” We’re all equally sinful. So since the good/bad doesn’t apply, the Christian would be going to heaven.
Bad Christians?
Were all bad, end of story.
I want to say good atheist, because let’s hypothetically say that that person was “perfect” (sinless) aside from “blasphemy”. So that should be better than a sinful person with one good deed (accepting Christ). But it doesn’t work that way. Which is my exact problem with religion. So I guess, if I’m wrong (about the nonexistance of God), this question will play a big part in my “afterlife”. Hahahah.
A bad Christian would get into heaven – an atheist wouldn’t. But the bad Christian wouldn’t receive many rewards up in heaven either…
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t. Posted 3/29/2007 7:04 PM by Far_Skies
First, I wanna make myself flamer free by saying that this person is entitled to their opinion.
Now, this is what I meant. A lot of universally accepted bad people truly believed in the salvation of Christ. Hitler, Torquemada, Richard the LionHearted (read up on the crusades a lil’ closer for this one.) and finally and modernly and just cuz I have to: Bush. If God really is almighty and all knowing he should be able to see the suffering and goodness in those who fell before these evil men and grant them salvation even though they did not believe. But he won’t. So I don’t believe. Catch 22, eh?
You guys are all poo heads. >=D
People think that “Being a Christian” is about religion and being good to others and all that… It’s not. A Christian is a person who seeks God, serves God, and obey’s his commands. So I say neither. A “bad Christian” wouldn’t be serving God. Serving God would be following his commands (The bible.) and trying to live their life to please God and to help others. An Atheist doesn’t believe in God, so wouldn’t have a relationship with him, or anything else I mentioned – yes, they wouldn’t even go to heaven if they saved everyone in the world. Going to Mcdonalds doesn’t make you a hamburger, and just like going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. To be a Christian, you have to seek, obey, serve, and have a relationship with God. So my anwser is a firm -Neither of them would make it to heaven.
NikBv: I heart you!
To the people who say salvation only exists through Christ, your wrong. The real salvation is life.
What I do believe however, that there was an initial force that kinda pushed the whole universe(s) into motion. I doubt whatever force that was is still hanging around and talking shit to the non-believers, but I’m fairly sure that it must have existed at some point. So yeah, I don’t believe in a single entity, but more like something that could be likened to electricity, or gravity. I think the Greeks called it ether.
God is a real asshole if he’d take someone like Hitler over an atheist that did good works, but just not in his name. That’s another thing that pisses me off about Christians, nothing is truly a good work unless it was done in the name of Christ the savior or whatever, and no one is truly a good person unless they “accept” that. Posted 3/29/2007 6:59 PM by highlyamusing
That “thing” was probably the laws of physics.
whichever God’s chosen. (I’m a Calvinist)
either / or fallacy
Ok, most of you are really retarded. Good deeds WILL NOT get you into heaven. It states in the Bible that only letting God in your heart and repenting your sins gets you into Heaven.
Some idiot is going to say “u cant be an atheist and be good!!!! atheists are immoral and just MEEE33N omgz!!”.
Christian.
Soultender speaks the truth, but I just got this picture in my head of an Atheist entering Heaven and seeing God for the first time. Man, what a shock to the system!! I’m thinking he might just stand there and wet on himself and loose all control of his bowels just before he fell on his face and began to confess what an idiot he had been. Then the worshipping would begin…….
read the bible. ask God.
there’s that whole clause about believing in Jesus to get into heaven, so the christian.
How good is good enough to enter a perfect paradise? What standard decides that you have done enough good to outweigh the bad? The only standard that God uses is whether a person has accepted His gift of salvation. Those who accept His grace and mercy are welcomed. Seems alot easier than trying to guess-work being good enough.
Being good doesn’t get you into Heaven.
The Christian would get in..either way. “Only way to salvation is through Christ.”
I just got this picture in my head of an Atheist entering Heaven and seeing God for the first time. Man, what a shock to the system!! I’m thinking he might just stand there and wet on himself and loose all control of his bowels just before he fell on his face and began to confess what an idiot he had been. Then the worshipping would begin……. Posted 3/29/2007 8:35 PM by smandav
And I just got this picture of a Theist, dead, in the ground. Imagine his shock when nothing but an empty void greets him! Wont his face be red then, eh?
good atheist!
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it.
All the remarks will be “There is no God, and to prove it… uhh… the Bible has errors in it!”
That’s equivalent to saying “There is no George W. Bush, and to prove it… Let me tell you about his foreign policies and getting us involved in the war in Iraq…”
the “good” person, regardless of their religion.
a bad christain
A second brief thought… if God is the Creator and if God created heaven, why on earth do we think we get to play judge and jury on God’s standards?
According to the Bible if you are not a Christian you automatically go to hell. But, I think that’s NONSENSE. You should be judge based on what you did through out life and how you are from the inside. That means, bad Christians should be punished for all the bad things they did in life by going to hell like everyone else who is bad. So what if they are Christian. That does not automatically give them the right to do cruel things in life and get away with it because they are Christians. Such as killing another human bean. Think about it, does that sounds fair? As for the good atheist they should go to heaven. Even though they are not Christians they have full fill the basic intention what GOD really want from them. Doing good deeds and love others.
Neither. You gotta FIRST accept God, and then second you have to have a relationship with Him.
Well, considering that the only way to Heaven is through Him… I’d have to say the bad Christian. Which is somewhat stupid, but it’s the truth.
Through Christ is the only why…so I would have to say the “bad Christian”…but that is assuming that they accepted Christ as Savior…not just said they were a christian cause they went to church.
Heaven doesn’t exist.
So what if they are Christian. That does not automatically give them the right to do cruel things in life and get away with it because they are Christians. Such as killing another human bean. Posted 3/29/2007 9:09 PM by findingliberty
With all do respect findingliberty, you are thinking of Christian as simply a title. A world-view of Christianity. You have to understand what Christianity is in the context of Christianity. “Christian” is one that believes in Christ, accepts Christ as savior, and is made a new creature through Christ. Someone that commits their life to Him doesn’t take it as entitlement to murder.
What about other religions? Are they wrong? who’s right?
I am an atheist myself but I do wonder how something like religion rules the worlds and diverse it. What I believe is that the bible is a metaphor to what happen ( going along with the big bang theory) and our ancestors couldn’t comprehend what is actually going on in the world so they created a book called the bible but it was taken too seriously.
Man created god not the other way around.
People say that man was created in the image of god? Psht. I think that men created god so its something that they can seek comfort in. A familiar comprehendible “force” and blame or praise when things go right or wrong. People are afraid of the unknown.
Why would god even bother to create an earth? If he is as spectacular and powerful as a christian would have you believe, why would he create earth? Was god bored and decided, “oh I want to create a civilization of peace and happiness for eternity and they’ll only be two people who happen to be named adam and eve”? Doesn’t god have something better to do then create a planet filled with greedy people couldn’t he be greedy enough to just hover in space on his own. “eve ate the apple though!” i think the whole story is a decent fairytale, but nothing to take so seriously. I mean COME ON. ….. I find it funny when people yell at me for my “ lack of faith” when they believe in a non-existing god.
God can let anyone in to heaven that God wants, on Gods terms, not ours. I believe far more people are going to heaven than we give God credit for.
A new question: How is heaven defined?
A new thought: Assuming Christianity is true, would an atheist even be happy in heaven? Or would they stand with their eyes closed muttering “I am not here?”
“They are so afraid of being taken in that they can no longer be taken out.”
And I just got this picture of a Theist, dead, in the ground. Imagine his shock when nothing but an empty void greets him! Wont his face be red then, eh?
Posted 3/29/2007 8:42 PM by NikBv
haha that made me laugh if you think about it once you are dead you are DEAD now don’t go and think ( omg that so morbid omg dont talk lyke that ZOMG THATS HORRIBLE WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT) But if you think about it, it makes sence. before you were born, do you have any memories before hand? no. you didn exsist. now tell me, why would you continue to think and have rational thoughts like ” omg its a black void!” when you died! your body shut down, it was worn out and you wont comprehend anything.
sure sure you can debate that your soul lives forever but if it lives forever than why don’t you remember anything before you were born?
I don’t believe in any religion and i already have some people look at me in complete shock and thought i had no morals or was a good person. but also if you think about it, if there is no heaven and hell and you wasted all your life dreaming that you’ll be there, your life would be a waste. ofcourse you’ll never know that because once you are dead. thats it. I personally believe that since one ( like myself) doesn’t believe in anything like a god. it makes life much more precious.
According to the Bible if you are not a Christian you automatically go to hell. But, I think that’s NONSENSE. You should be judge based on what you did through out life and how you are from the inside.
That’s how it works, buddy. God examines your heart. If he finds that you are guiltless on account of accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you will enter heaven. That’s the first half. The second half is obeying his commandments. Jesus told the rich young man when asked how he could enter the kingdom “Obey the commandments”. If you were God, everyone would go to hell. That’s why I’m glad you’re not and I’m not God!
“Some idiot is going to say “u cant be an atheist and be good!!!! atheists are immoral and just MEEE33N omgz!!”. Posted 3/29/2007 8:21 PM by bittersunday”
Word. Sonnnn.
The problem with anyone going anywhere because they were good is the problem with morality itself: it’s relative. There is not absolute, eternal, unchanging good or evil, and so it’s ridiculous to say that a person can go to heaven for doing something “good” because to the person they did it to, or perhaps in another culture, it could be bad.
For instance, it used to be acceptable for a woman to marry at the age of 15 to a man who was 25. Not today! The guy would be called a “sick” pedophile, a cradle-robber, and probably going to hell.
Maybe you fucking ignorant jackasses should wise up and realize that there’s complete other world of things to learn about, not just outside country you live in, but in the past also; there’s a lot more to life and living it that what you bible has to say about it, and morality is so fucking diverse you can’t go kicking down the doors to other people’s cultures and saying they need to ask some fucking hippy into their heart — they wont know what the fuck you’re talking about and hopefully they’ll impale you for attempting to poison life with your sick ascetic morality. Posted 3/29/2007 5:10 PM by Yohsiph
For someone toting moral relativity, my friend, you sure violate your own principles. If all morals are relative, how can mine be “sick”? You are assuming an objective standard with which to judge moralities, and thus preaching the opposite of relativism.
If there IS NO objective standard by which to judge moral systems, then my proselytizing, allegedly life-poisoning, “sick ascetic morality” is just as good as yours–and you shouldn’t say bad things about it.
If there IS an objective standard by which to judge moral systems, who are you to claim that you know it? Support your hypothesis.
You can’t tout relativism unless you yourself adhere to relativistic principles.
(And for the record: Christianity doesn’t teach anyone goes anywhere because they’re good.)
Leonisafaefreak:
“What about other religions? Are they wrong? who’s right?”
The answer lies in the fact that two points of view that contradict each other cannot both be true at the same time in the same sense. For example, Christianity claims that Jesus is God. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus is not God. So either Jesus is God and the Christians are right, or Jesus is not God and the JW’s are right. But they can’t both be right, can they? Can Jesus be both God and not God at the same time? Can you be standing up and sitting down at the same time? Can you be talking and not talking at the same time? The answer to these questions is obviously, “No.”
Some may object and say, “Well, Christianity may be true for you, but Mormonism is true for me – we have different truths.”
This is a very common viewpoint today, but it’s flawed at its core. When you say that something is true for you but not for me, you are misusing the word “true.” Truth is objective, not subjective (up to the individual). Subjective truth is really mere opinion. Mormonism and Christianity cannot both be true at the same time. Some people might claim that I am wrong to hold to such a view, but do you really think I’m wrong? What if I think I’m right? Can I be both wrong and right at the same time?
If you think I’m wrong, then you are proving my point. You wouldn’t say I am wrong and right at the same time, would you? You’d just say I’m wrong. And by doing so, you are affirming the fact that truth is a certain way – truth is objective, and contradictory claims cannot be both true and false at the same time.
I can’t be both right and wrong at the same time in the same sense. If I could, then you’d be right to say I’m wrong, and you’d be wrong to say I’m wrong. And that just doesn’t make sense. Right?
Taken from “http://larrylee.info/questionsanswered.php?item=23″ (Shut up, he explains it better than I can).
“If he is as spectacular and powerful as a christian would have you believe, why would he create earth?” ’cause he loves you and wants to spend eternity with you. Duh!
Bad Christian
^Leonisafaefreak, I see what you’re saying. But I don’t have any memories of when I was three years old, either. Does it necessarily follow that I did not exist when I was three?
If people who do not believe in a solid, objective truth try to convince me of something, I can’t believe them. I can only take it for an opinion. You people are like birds flying constantly in the air, with no ground to stand on. Ever. You’ll eventually get tired and fall ’cause of your own stubbornness to not realize that truth is hard, solid ground, not something that anyone can decide.
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it. Posted 3/29/2007 8:56 PM by This_Is_Important
I’d like to see a Christian prove the existence of God. Go ahead, try your best. Oh, what’s that? You have no point that I would accept without losing my own intellectual dignity?
This is a very common viewpoint today, but it’s flawed at its core. When you say that something is true for you but not for me, you are misusing the word “true.” Truth is objective, not subjective (up to the individual). Subjective truth is really mere opinion. Mormonism and Christianity cannot both be true at the same time. Some people might claim that I am wrong to hold to such a view, but do you really think I’m wrong? What if I think I’m right? Can I be both wrong and right at the same time?
I think you can :. Killing a parasite is bad and good at the same time; bad for tha parasite, good for the host (Usually)
Wow, lots of interesting answers. First of all, like others have said, heaven is not attained based on how bad or good you are, it comes down to what you did with the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. If you accepted God’s son as your payment for sin, and put your faith in him heaven isn’t just HOPED FOR, it’s guaranteed. Honestly, people’s opinions aren’t what I want to hear, it’s God’s Word, absolute truth. Who cares what people think God SHOULD be to fit their little finite mind, ya know?
hahahahahahahahaha what?! technically if you really believe in god then neither of them should … the christian is bad and should go to “hell” and the athiest can go off in to never never land and be happy with their beliefs .
heres a good question … why do so many of you consider Athiest and Agnostics bad pple or not worthy? i have morals and obey the laws and im nice and considerate to everyone i just dont believe in organized religion and god.
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it. Posted 3/29/2007 8:56 PM by This_Is_Important
And you can’t ‘prove’ that God exists, either. The burden of proof is on the person making the person attempting to establish the existence of something, not on the person who wants to disprove it exists.
Tallon5: Of course two conflicting opinions cannot feasibly both be true (well… it depends on what topic, and a discussion about existence beyond comprehension and such, but…). So what proof is there that any one specific version of Christianity is more true than any other, or any other religion at all, for a matter of fact? They all have pretty much the same amount of proof behind them (all of which seems to hinge on various ‘Holy books’.
Kind of IS a dumb question, not cause I dont’ care about the answer, but it’s a hypothetical situation. God doesn’t CHOOSE who gets into heaven, if you’re headed there, your name is written in the lamb’s book of life when you make Christ your personal Savior. it’s not like it’s a case-by-case basis. Either you’re a sinner, or you’re a sinner saved by grace, only two options.
Honestly, people’s opinions aren’t what I want to hear, it’s God’s Word, absolute truth. Who cares what people think God SHOULD be to fit their little finite mind, ya know? Posted 3/29/2007 9:46 PM by theheem
Hah. Talk about a finite little mind.
Ya know?
^I don’t consider atheists and agnostics bad people or less worthy than I. The point is that “goodness” isn’t how you get to heaven, and none of us are worthy.
I don’t think you’re less worthy than I to jump across the Grand Canyon. Doesn’t mean you can do it (without help). Heck, neither can I (without help).
If people who do not believe in a solid, objective truth try to convince me of something, I can’t believe them. I can only take it for an opinion. You people are like birds flying constantly in the air, with no ground to stand on. Ever. You’ll eventually get tired and fall ’cause of your own stubbornness to not realize that truth is hard, solid ground, not something that anyone can decide. Posted 3/29/2007 9:35 PM by Tallon5
I… really can’t tell if you are arguing for or against religion in that comment…I want to say against, but who knows…
I think you can :. Killing a parasite is bad and good at the same time; bad for tha parasite, good for the host (Usually) Posted 3/29/2007 9:39 PM by ryoma136
I’m not asking if it’s good for the person or parasite. I’m asking if a parasite can be both alive and dead at the same time.
Tallon5: Of course two conflicting opinions cannot feasibly both be true (well… it depends on what topic, and a discussion about existence beyond comprehension and such, but…). So what proof is there that any one specific version of Christianity is more true than any other, or any other religion at all, for a matter of fact? They all have pretty much the same amount of proof behind them (all of which seems to hinge on various ‘Holy books’. Posted 3/29/2007 9:49 PM by NikBv
Opinions can be true. I wasn’t arguing for the proof that Christianity is true, or that is God is true. I’m just saying that truth exists, that it is not “your truth, my truth” – that it is somewhere, never-changing, out there and we should find it.
I… really can’t tell if you are arguing for or against religion in that comment…I want to say against, but who knows… Posted 3/29/2007 9:51 PM by NikBv
I’m arguing for objective truth only.
bad christian of course. that is, if s/he believes
I know you’re just an angry young Muslim behind this Xanga interface.
Bad Christian because God will forgive you for your sins, but an atheist never believed in God at all.
The only way anyone is getting into heaven is if they have accepted Christ as their Savior. You don’t get in for just being good. You don’t get in because you paid hundreds of dollars to some charity. You don’t get in because your parents went to church for the last forty years. You don’t get in because of your heritage. You don’t get in because you are white, black, red, or yellow. You only get in if you acknowledge that you are a sinner, accept the free gift (Christ’s dying on the cross for your sins), and believe in Him (Jesus) that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Preaching, I know, but some people still don’t get it. What they are basing their thoughts on, I really don’t know? Read the scriptures. It is pretty plain. John 3:16, I John 1:9, Romans 3:23, Matthew 1:21, etc…
It is my understanding a person cannot get into heaven unless they accept Jesus as the Son of God. So I think that leaves the good atheist outside the gate looking in.
“all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”…people are confused. if a person is truly a christian they will trust God and do good things not because it will save them, but because its what God wants them to do.But because of man’s fallen nature they to will do bad things and fall into sin, but thanks to Jesus we are forgiven.If someone doesnt accepted christ, therefore are not a christian, they will not go into heaven.
Good atheists, of course
bad christian
LOL, great question…
Sincerely loaded question.
If you are assuming a God Exists, and it is the Christian God of a God. Than Neither, if it is something rather different, than both maybe.
Death is not consequential death is death. OR You die by what you live by, in the end a good atheist has nothing to worry about in a non God world, but in the end the Christian would have a heavy guilt before they die. In either world.
So Atheist wins!
It is almost like saying shall we let the good atheist out of jail, as he did not commit any crime. or Shall we release the bad Christian, who has raped and murdered countless people?
The only hell people bring are the ones they bring on themselves.
Religion is not a badge of honor, by default. Ones own life is.
Babies are technically not “Christian” though if we have an early death they are by far “condemned”
well, isnt this a “can God build a rock so big he cannot carry it” type of question. If your looking from scripture, it seems that it is not based on works but on grace, so being “good” has nothing to do with it because we are all sinners. Though, hopefully a Christian will be good, a good witness and servant of God – not being a hypocrite.
Daniel (doubledb)
Ok now it is frustrating me, and I do apologize for the comment I am about to make. some of the responses are to heartless and guided by a religious deterministic logic.
Ethics as this question is about ethics, is about choosing what is right, (at its best) and base on ones feelings and beliefs.
I’m amused by the way some of the people who consider themselves “Christian” sort of froth at the mouth and get damp in their panties at the idea of the “good atheist” going to hell.
Real Christ-like attitudes there.
I like what C.S. Lewis said in the last Narnia book–that Aslan takes all good that is done unto himself. Therefore, the “good atheist” would be accepted by God as a true son–just perhaps a son who didn’t know his dad until after he died….
I think that it must be true that God transcends all perceptions–and certainly transcends the narrow, legalistic limitations of a book written thousands and thousands of years ago by a tiny group of nomadic herders
neither~
NEITHER will get in. Sin cannot enter heaven, thus bad christians won’t make it either. christians can only be bad if they have sin in their lives. hmm.. that’s a thinker right.
why spend your whole life so focused on the destination? focus on the adventure while you’re here.
ummm well, you have to believe in God and put him first in your life!Your not ever going to make it to Heaven if you don’t even except him as your Creator and Savior. You by no means have to be perfect, just except Jesus in your heart. Alot of people think just because they are Christians that gets them into Heaven by God’s Grace! I heard this the other night and thought it was good! Grace is not a license to Sin It is the Power to overcome it. No one’s perfect and God knows that, but we need to try and be as Christ like as we can. If you are a Christian and a bad person than you aren’t letting God totally into your life. other than Salvation being 1st and most, Having God’s love in your life and including that in your everyday life is important too. If your not you aren’t living to your full potential as a Christian and then your missing out on God many Blessings! God Bless
ANYBODY WHO BELEIVES THEY’VE LIVED A GOOD LIFE
“I AM A LEAF ON THE WIND WATCH HOW I SOAR”
a “bad” christian. How can you get into heaven if you dont even believe he exists?
The good aetheist denies the existence of God. Though grace is given freely, aetheists will not accept it.
The bad Christian is saved by grace - meaning one has genuinely accepted Christ as his or her personal Lord and Savior. By faith, he knows that when he dies, there is eternal life - heaven. 1 John 5:11 “God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”
Now in terms of BAD and GOOD, no one is GOOD and BAD in the eyes of God. We are all equal because we are all fallen. We are justified through Christ and we have eternal life through Christ.
Romans 3:22 “This righeousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Sin is a SIN – PERIOD.
I think that the bad Christian will enter heaven.
1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightesouness.”
TO GOD BE THE GLORY AND HONOR!!!
If God lets a bad Christian into Heaven then he needs to do a better job.
The bad Christ follower.
have a daisy ~leveran~
or should I say the forgiven Christ follower?
have a daisy ~leveran~
Seeing as god isn’t real, the question seems rather…pointless. According to the bible though, if he did exist, he most likely wouldn’t let in either…the bad Christian because they most likely did something that wasn’t allowed, and the good Atheist simply because he doesn’t give up his freewill to god.
Actually, that is an issue I had thought about before. I would agree very much with Ancient_Scribe and squeakysoul that God will have a fair judgement of who is qualified to go to heaven. Rejecting a good atheist or agnostic and accepting a bad christian would seem slightly ridiculous in my view. But again, this is my view. He alone has the power of making the judgement in His own way.
This is one of the argument I always put to friends who are so very persistent in persuading me to be a Christian in a rather threatening and uncharismatic way. I’m a free thinker who believes in the existence of God but prefers the Buddism ideology. I find that those people who kept telling everyone that you have to be a Christian in order to escape eternal torture in hell are simply disgracing the religion. They make it sound as if Christianity is governed by fear which I would like to believe it isn’t.
thats a stupid question
an atheist obviously believes in no heaven and according to Christianity you cant be a bad christian
what exactly is a bad Christian? there are plenty of people that act in the name of Christianity that would freak out if they ever met Jesus. but there are also Christians that struggle through every new lesson in their lives. i guess in the end, i think only God knows the answer to that question, because he’s the only one that sees the true impulse and motivation behind our lives.
Probably neither, unless the bad Christian repents for the bad things he did. The Jesus won’t allow the atheist in because he denies God
Everyone is given a choice- Those who make the correct choice get to go “home”.
Asking if God will chose a “good atheist” over a “bad Christian” is kinda silly… That’s like asking a parent which one of their children they love the most… Besides, none of us are truly good, regardless of our religious views: We are all God’s children. and I think God loves all of his children….Not just the ones that “behave”.
we’re suppose to keep in mind that God is Just, He is about Justice, and He is “Fair” even tho the bible says that only Christians can go to Heaven God loves all humans, even the killers, and at the same time even the Devil himself a bad Christian either way has to pay for his/her wrong doings, but eventually would go to Heaven if God is Just, He would also put the Athiest in Heaven some people believe that Heaven has many levels, but even the lowest is better than Earth what is your definition of Bad Christian? to be Christian, the main idea is keeping faith, loyalty, and pray, and help others by doing good there are “Christians” that carry only the name but do nothing of a sort for God in some denominations it is believed that God tends to His believers first, then His other children last so it would be the Bad Christian
define “good” or “bad” for that matter.
The “bad” Christian will go to heaven because Christ saves through grace, not through works.
I believe that those who try to live a good life and who try to make life better for those around them, will go to Heaven, regardless of their religious affiliation (or lack thereof). I refuse to believe in a God that would dictate otherwise.
What is a bad Christian?
a bad Christian.
Good aethist, but neither have a good chance
Basing “salvation” on something as silly as a pattern of belief is the product of a series of governments which wish to keep their populus under contol, and it reflects that wholly. However, if there be an actual diety, they are far more likely to base their criteria of entry to a positive afterlife on the lives of the people who wish to gain entry to it, if there is any criteria at all, which I would doubt. Otherwise, why would an omnipotent god who knows the future and destiny of his/her creation bother creating human beings knowing they are going to end up in Hell? That would be an indication of a sadistic personality, or of a lack of omnipotence, indication that the diety in question is not a diety at all.
your last chance. Now pay very close attention this important
message!
Sorry but once read, must be sent. Yes, this is one of those kinda
chain
letters that everyone hates. This one has been going since 1863
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if you
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Depends on why the christian is bad and the atheist is good.
Who saved by Jesus Christ…even he is good or not…BY GRACE BUT NOT BY WORK…
This is why I hate Christians…. Some of them are the biggest assholes in history and they’re still like “Well God loves me, so I will go to heaven and YOU will go to hell.” Yeah, in my religion of you’ve-been-sucked-into-american-churches, I’m going to go to heaven because I’m actually a good person. Those other people will never deserve it. And you shouldn’t have to beg for forgiveness. He’ll know if you’re truly sorry.
good atheist, it is all about keeping the law for the Jesus Movement, read Matthew again.
Do you ever get the feeling its all been said, so whats the point?…
I don’t think either would make into Heaven, because niether one is really concerned about serving God; also how can you be a bad Christian that doesnt make sense?
I’m not even going to pretend that I think there is a right answer here…
Atheists are unbelievers no matter how good they are & they will not be allowed into heaven.
But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. -Revelation 22:8
Bad Christians
There is no such thing as a bad Christian there might be some Christians who struggle with different issues & error but in the end they still belong to Christ, they are still covered in the blood Christ shed on the cross & they are still saved.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. – 1 Peter 2:25
define “bad christian”.
Hi! I found your entry randomly on here and thought I’d comment…in response to ‘squeakysoul’…
I can see where you’re coming from having trouble thinking of God as someone who would keep good people out of Heaven…and I think I agree…I don’t believe that God keeps anyone out of Heaven who deserves to be there. The thing is, nobody deserves Heaven. Heaven is for those who are perfect and worthy to be in the presence of the One who is holy and loving and awesome and pure and…GOD. And all of us…from the axe murderer to those who are constantly giving to the poor and helping others…fall short of this standard. In order to be perfect, we have to be sinless…but the Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and that there is no one righteous…NOT EVEN ONE. (Romans 3:10). Everyone has done something…lied…cheated…stolen…rejected God’s love…And the good things we do don’t outweigh the bad…Isaiah 64:6 says that our righteousness is like filthy rags in God’s eyes. We can’t be good enough. The only thing we deserve is death. (Romans 6:23).
Kinda depressing, huh? But this is where the cool part comes in…God doesn’t want us to stay separated from Him! Romans 5:8 says: “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners” (not because we were good people!) “Christ died for us.” God loved us so much He sent His Son to die in our place! Jesus accepted our punishment, so that we can go to Heaven…we don’t go to Heaven because we the good we do outweighs the bad or because we are perfect. We can go to Heaven because Jesus clothes us with HIS righteousness…HIS perfection. Our eternal life is a gift from God…provided through Jesus. (Romans 6:23b)
In John 14:6 Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me.” Seems pretty clear to me at least…we can’t get there on our own…we can never, ever be good enough to deserve Heaven. Our sin separates us from God. But He offers Heaven as a free gift if we just believe! Romans 10:9-10 says, “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”
As for those who honestly don’t believe that God exists…Romans 1:18-20 says: “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Basically it’s saying, look at the world around you! Look at the complexity of the eye…the beauty of a sunset…the perfect position of planet earth to sustain life…the list goes on and on. Nature screams of a Creator. God’s thumbprint is on all of life. And you know what’s cool? (I know from personal experience) God will reveal Himself to those who doubt if they ask…Jeremiah 29:13 says that if we seek God with all our hearts, He will be found by us.
Sooo in response to the original question…no, I don’t believe good atheists go to Heaven. On the other hand, I don’t believe bad Christians go either…’cause I don’t think there is such a thing. Those who call themselves Christians and don’t live like it are not Christians. I John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in Him [Christ] keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him.” John isn’t saying here that doing good gets you into Heaven, but that a pure life is the result of belonging to Him…Matthew 7 talks about how those who truly belong to Christ ‘bear fruit.’ Just like an apple tree won’t produce oranges, those who belong to the ‘tree of Christ’ (heh heh…forgive the corniness of my summary) don’t produce fruit of sin… And the verses are not saying that Christians never mess up. What they’re saying is that true Christians do not make it a practice of continuing to sin…they are constantly becoming more like Jesus and learning to get rid of their sinful habits.
I know this is really long, and there’s still probably more i could say…so feel free to comment me or something if you want to talk more. I hope this has helped a little! Oh, and if you want to look up the verses I used and don’t have a Bible handy, biblegateway.com lets you look up Bible verses. It’s pretty handy!
Have a grrreat day.
hahahha i think all Christians suck at being Christians…to tell you the truth…we’ll never live up to Jesus’s standards. He’s God!
i think doing good deeds to get to a higher place in heaven is one of the most selfish things you can do.
I hate names. The only difference between one who has been saved and who hasn’t is the grace of God. Christians or not…we’re all on the same level. I’m sick of those Christians who rebuke those who don’t live up to their standards. I used to do it all the time…I probably will still do it. If we want to make a change…we need to start with ourselves.
I just want to say for those who have been hurt by a believer…I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I’ve hurt you or my brothers and sisters have. We all suck at being a Christian. I’m sorry that we have rebuked you when we should be the ones that should be rebuked. God’s awesome that he still uses us. I don’t understand why but that’s what God does.
He knows we’re going to fail him. The thing is…what does sin do to him? Bottomline it just hurts us.
The greatest downfall of Christiantiy is Christians themselves.
To answer the question. yes those who have recieved Christ into their hearts are going to heaven.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son. That whoever believes in him will have eternal life.”
Sorry…I know you’re going ot hate it…but that’s the truth. Christians and myself have slandered his name so many times. I believe Heaven is a place where we’re going to worship God forever. Why would someone who doesn’t believe in him want to do that?
Great question. Good feedback. I love your following.
Your question is a mystery which we will never know the answer to until we croak.
a muslim
A Christian is a Christian. Just because he is a “bad” Christian doesn’t mean he gets left out of salvation. The atheist will never reach salvation.
A good atheist doesn’t believe there is a God, so why would God condone their good lifestyles and let them into heaven. Everyone is bad, so being a bad christian is like saying,”if you drop a tomato, It’s gonna bruise.” DUH. everyone screws up, it’s by the Grace of God that we believe in our savlation and that he brings us into Heaven as a result of our faith.
you can’t be let into heaven without belief and faith.
you cant get into heaven by being good. u only get into heaven if your saved, if you believe. thats the only way. so i say a bad christian.
I’m praying for (c) All of the Above.
Neither. A “bad christian,” as in someone who’s bad at following God won’t get in (to be bad at following God by the way, you just have to not try) and an atheist wouldn’t have wanted to go anyway…but would they?
Either way, neither. That’s me anyway.
Athiests do not go to heaven ,good or bad. Christians,and I would really like to say something abbout what was commented on by ali cat… there is no such thin as a stupid question,especially when talking about our lord. There are such things as good christians and bad.Jesus died for us.We are all sinners,but I guess it all depends on how you look at it.all I can say is for the ignorant one’s whom don’t know what an athiest is and said that the GOOD ATHIEST would go to heaven first.Read the Bible and it will explain it.Look in the index at the back under ATHIEST.I am sorry to say and it truly is truly sad but, athiests do not ever go to heaven,unless they turn their lives over to God and ask for forgiveness and live as a christian.There is no such thing as a BAD CHRISTIAN or a GOOD CHRISTIAN,because we all make mistakes,we all tell fib’s big, or small.At one time or another we all have done things only God& our selves know about that is why we Prey to God and ask forgiveness every day.Of course this could be a very lengthy conversation but, for the record all christians (not good or bad)ALL OF US CHRISTIANS will happily go to HEAVEN.Sadly an Athiest will go to the other side, to hell.This all can be read in your Bible.I didn’t just make it up as i went along. If you are unsure like I said look in your Bible because it explains this topic&so much more………… Great Question.God Bless. Your friend Kendra P.S The Question is not contradictory at all,it may seem that way to you but, that may be only because, you are not aware, or were never informed.God loves us all from the pope to the man or woman on death row we are all his children.
Definitely a “bad” Christian. I don’t think this is a dumb question. I mean people do wonder about these things. But why would God let someone into heaven who doesn’t even believe that God exists? As stated before, works can’t get you into heaven, only believe that Christ died for our sins and that He’s the only way for us to get to heaven.
there are no good Christians, or good people for that matter. The Pharisees were as close to good as you can get, but they were really far off….God wants a heart after Him, not obediance to rules. The question doesn’t make sense. Eternal life is knowing God (John 17:3) so if you don’t even believe in GOd, how can you know HIm?
both; the atheist is still a child of god, supposedly, and all of god’s children are welcome to the kingdom of heaven. that’s why jesus died on the cross and we hide the eggs and eat chocolate bunnies. duh.
Basing “salvation” on something as silly as a pattern of belief is the product of a series of governments which wish to keep their populus under contol, and it reflects that wholly. However, if there be an actual diety, they are far more likely to base their criteria of entry to a positive afterlife on the lives of the people who wish to gain entry to it, if there is any criteria at all, which I would doubt. Otherwise, why would an omnipotent god who knows the future and destiny of his/her creation bother creating human beings knowing they are going to end up in Hell? That would be an indication of a sadistic personality, or of a lack of omnipotence, indication that the diety in question is not a diety at all.
Reading the Bible would clear a lot of this up. Also, Jesus was not looked fondly upon by the government…so i dont’ think the first point makes sense
Good atheist.
this questions serves no positive purpose. it just divides people.
it doesnt matter if youre good or bad, its just hte fact that you accepted Christ as your savior.
a lot of good people go to hell and a lot of bad people go to heaven. but it doesnt matter because Jesus died for all of us, to pay for our sins.
Everyone.
*First of all, no one can be defined as “BAD”. God loves everyone equally. He loves you more than you could ever love him. Even the people that us humans try to stay away from. *Then, a true Christian tries to do the right thing. And Christians are never perfect. As long as you truly believe in God and that Jesus is his son, you are a Christian, no good or bad to you. *Also, the only way to everlasting life is through Jesus himself. You have to belive in Jesus and take him into your life in order to ever to go to Heaven. *Lastly, eventually the athiests will get a chance into heaven. God is going to give them a second chance to believe at the end of the world.
Depends if God is in the mood for a good argument
Squeakysoul gave a magnificent answer to a question that I have always forthrightly answered: a good atheist. But my answer contains a contradiction, because I doubt a true atheist believes in heaven in the first place. I’m more of a doubter than an atheist, and I have always said that IF there is a heaven, I’ll be admitted because I was a good person. And I have no doubts whatsover about that proposition. If there is a God, and if he/she is unmerciful enough to deny me, then it’s not the same God you purport to worship.
The bad christian
I would doubt that a bad Christian is really a Christian, but the answer to your hypothetical question would be the bad Christian. If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in is.
Bad Christian.
[ariana]
with absolutely no doubt at all, a good person is always better than a bad christian. god could not care less what beliefs one have, what matters are behavior. cheers
The bad christian, The book or Romans repetedly makes clear that we are saved by grace, not works. Christ says “I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except through me”
good Atheist
Man, as an atheist I’m getting a pretty sour taste of Christian beliefs.
The only way into heaven is through Jesus. “Good works” etc. cannot, although they may be an indication of where your heart lies. You could be a serial rapist murderer on your death bed and commit your life to Christ and in that moment be saved. i would not risk waiting till you die, though, because you never know when it is going to happen. You can’t get to heaven on good intentions, good deeds, anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Now, of course, if you say you believe in Jesus, yet your life has no evidence of it, people may start to wonder. You live what you believe. Of course, no one is perfect. I have been a Christian for 22 years now and I still have to remember it is not something that can be earned. However, because of Jesus’ great love for me I desire to grow closer to Him, as a result I do, and my life is a natural outflow of desiring to please Him in all I do. Of course, there is always the struggle to do the wrong thing, and even Christians are not perfect. We will not be until we get to heaven… Anyways, only God knows your heart. He or she who believes in Jesus as the Savior of his or her life, that is the person that will be saved. “Good atheist” or not – He or she cannot be saved by being “good”. It is only through Christ!
Well assuming that there is a god I’d say a good atheist. But I don’t really believe in a diety but I’m not agnostic. Although common sense screams good atheist simply because good deeds were done. Who’s to say that the only salvation is believing in some dude that was born years ago? To me, Jesus is just any other dude and god doesn’t exist.
oh my God….. did you ask the question just to bring them all out?
a bad christian. the good ones might be faking.
A bad Christian, because the Christian (assuming we’re defining “Christian” as a person who believes Jesus died and rose again to save people from their sins) embraces God’s existance and his or her need of a Savior. A good atheist (assuming we’re defining “atheist” as a person who denies the existance of God) wouldn’t get in because he or she doesn’t believe God exists and probably wouldn’t believe themselves guilty of sin and thereby would have rejected Jesus as Savior.
I was looking over some of the other comments people made to this question, and I find myself wondering, “How are they defining good and bad? Is the Christian in the original question being called bad because he or she is guilty of a particular sin? If so, then which sin? Are we assuming the good atheist in the original question lived a life free of sin WITHOUT believing that God exists? Or is the good atheist in the original question simply not guilty of the particular sin the bad Christian in the original question is guilty of?”
I think that, 1: good deeds alone don’t get you into heaven; 2: most atheists do believe in at least a higher power. I think this is a question someone should ask a clergyman (or woman).
Anyone who believes that Jesus died for them and has asked Him to save them will go to heaven. Comparing one person to another and saying that one should go because of their good deeds or otherwise impressive earthly behavior isn’t gonna get you anywhere. Sure, some people are nicer than others, but everyone is “bad” (does stuff wrong). We all deserve hell, the only thing that determines who doesn’t go is salvation through Jesus Christ.
Analogy is good sometimes, but it gets us in trouble. We’re humans. If we knew everything we’d be God. We’re not. Thank God.
I think that God will decide who will enter into paradise with Him, and the criteria for such judgement goes well beyond behavior and religious beliefs. Still, I’m sure that there are plenty of atheist who are in Heaven, and plenty of Christians who are in Hell. I think the best thing for anyone to do, firstly, is to trust and hope and then to live their life in a way that reflects those things. If you live in a way that reflects your great hope and trust that God will accept you into Heaven, you inevitably (I feel) live in a way that is good and pleasing to Him.
As kboy25 said, The only way to salvation is through Christ.
But that does not mean only “Christians” we recognize on Earth can have salvation.
The main question He would ask is in the Bible:
What did you do to Him? (the question is interpretated in this sence: Whenever you feed the hunger, help the one who is the smallest, love everybody… you are doing these good things to Him.)
Therefore, there is a term “annonymous Christians”, Whenever one do good to others wholeheartedly and tries hard to improve one’s moral, learn how to forgive and be humble to accept and see the beauty of everything, even pain and suffereings, “and understand there is only one God but no other Idols, and try hard to search for him with good means”(Please carefully interpret this line in paranthesis), he or she has the will to “baptism”, and they would be the true Christians. Under this maxim, I believe buddist followers, Muslums, or even atheist could be Christians.
Well that question rest on your idea of what is good and bad. It evokes a moral truth. Jesus said there are none good but the father. SInce it rests on your definition of good it can only be speculated on your own perspective on God’s justice.
You know, kind of like those who believe that if you are just ”good enough (evoking a subjective moral truth)” God will send you to heaven. Unfortunatly, the word of God states differently.
Christianity is not just a religion. There are bad people who go to church and act as a complete different people outside of church. What makes people go to heaven is their relationship with God. If people believe in the spirit, they will follow the spirit (what the bible says, the commandments, etc). There is a difference in living WITH Christ and living IN Christ. Unfortunately, if people just take “Christianity” as a religion and nothing else, it makes them no difference than others who are not “good.”
I am a Christian but unfortunately, I don’t believe in heaven even when I have full faith in God and attend church twice a week.
WE’RE ALL BAD CHRISTIANS, SO US OF COURSE.
a bad Christian who believes that Christ is their savior. Atheists don’t so they dont get into heaven b/c they dont believe there’s a heaven or God anyway. Posted 3/29/2007 4:33 PM by WiLD4SURFiNG
That’s a good point… I am not totally sure about all of my beliefs… I am not quite sure, honestly.
This is something I can’t truly even begin to comprehend.
How can there be separate heavens for everybody?
How can there be fifteen different versions of God existing at the same time?
I agree that you can’t all be correct about your beliefs. It’s impossible since so many ideals are contradictory.
I suppose the truth of the matter is that it’s all in the luck of the draw.
Either you choose the one that’s actually real, or you don’t.
It’s a hit-or-miss situation and you won’t know if you’ve made the right choice until it’s already too late to change your mind.
actually, neither. He wouldn’t allow the good atheist in because there is no relationship with Jesus. However, as Revelations 3:16 (But since you are lukewarm water, I will spit you out of my mouth!) shows, He would rather us be 100% against Him than to claim His name and not live for Him.
Since the “bad” Christian accepted Christ at one point then God will accept them.
Comments (310)
There’s no such thing as a “good” person… period.
everybody
Christian (good and bad)
Good atheist.
being “good” doesn’t get you into heaven anyway soo…
that’s a dumb question.
You’r good deeds can’t save you.
Hm… Bad christian is kind of an oxymoron.
If you’re bad, then you’re not REALLY a Christian.
Or at least, that’s my view.
I guess I’ll change my answer to neither.
And in the 5 seconts it tool me to type that you got 7 comments.
Who cares.
THEY SHOULD BOTH BURN IN HELLLL ARGHHHHHDGFJHZJJX
i’m just kidding by the way
*took
Hi Dan…interesting question* could write a whole post about that one…take care..Lee
that’s the thing that’s so contradictory about god/christianity. i don’t have an answer for you.
a bad Christian who believes that Christ is their savior. Atheists don’t so they dont get into heaven b/c they dont believe there’s a heaven or God anyway.
I think it depends on how faithful the person was to the knowledge that they had.
paris hilton
assuming you mean a christian who fails to uphold the bible in every sense: the christian
if you’re talking about a christian who makes no striving, doesn’t pray, doesn’t care, and still rests on the fact that he’s a decently good person: neither
There are no good Christians.
A good atheist. Duhhh.
Are you people seriously saying that your God would rather let in a terrible person, who had done so many bad things in their lifetime, and hated people, than an atheist who loved everyone they came into contact with and did a lot to help people?
That sounds crazy to me.
Christians are sinners too.
Unfortunately bad Christians.
I think that God will decide who will enter into paradise with Him, and the criteria for such judgement goes well beyond behavior and religious beliefs. Still, I’m sure that there are plenty of atheist who are in Heaven, and plenty of Christians who are in Hell. I think the best thing for anyone to do, firstly, is to trust and hope and then to live their life in a way that reflects those things. If you live in a way that reflects your great hope and trust that God will accept you into Heaven, you inevitably (I feel) live in a way that is good and pleasing to Him. But I have no way of knowing for sure… well, I just hope that I’m right!
I honestly don’t know. I’m not enough of a believer to say that only Christians can possibly get into heaven, because even though that is what I’ve been taught, I don’t believe in my heart that is true. I would suppose the “correct” answer would be that neither would get into heaven, one because s/he did not accept Christ as her savior, and one because their acts kept them out of heaven.
I have trouble believing, though, that a just God would keep a truly good and decent person out of heaven just because they in good faith and with all conscience did not believe in Him. It seems almost egotistical to me, something which I know God is not. I’d appreciate gentle input otherwise if you think I’m wrong.
Also, I would submit to those who think this is a dumb question that you have the option of simply not answering it, or else [politely] explaining your views.
The only way to salvation is through Christ.
only if they have dedicated their life to Christ
I’d rather go to fucking hell than spend eternity with you christian panty-waists.
“An immortal Peter; Who could stand him?!”
Oh, and your dogma says a bad Christian. Guess I luck out.
A guy dies and goes to Heaven, he meets St. Peter at the gates of heaven. He asks to be let in and St.Peter tells him that the way this will work is the guy will tell him all of the good things that he did on earth and St. Peter will assign each good deed a point value. When the guy reaches 1,000 points he will be let into heave. The guy said this sounded reasonable, and so he told Peter about how he had been married to the same woman for the last 50 years and never cheated on his wife. Peter said that sounds great, I’ll give you three points. The guy said okay, I have three kids and each one serves God in different ways, I have a kid who is a minister, a kid that is a missionary and my youngest is a TV evangelist. Peter said excellant each one will earn you 1 point. At this point the guy interrupts Peter and asks how many points does he need? Peter replied 1000. How many points do I have? asked the dead guy. Peter replied 6. At this point the dead guy exclaimed “at this rate the only way I will get into heaven is by the grace of God. Peter stepped aside and said welcome come on in.
To answer your question, since it is by the grace of God and not because of works. the bad christian will get in every time.
why would an atheist want to go to a Christian heaven? also, why do atheists think they have the right to define a Christian god? Either atheists should make up their own god, or they should stop trying to reimagine the Christian God.
Christians go to Christian heaven.
Atheists just die.
Agnostics… well, they’ll find out.
…if an atheist doesn’t believe in god, and is then accepted into heaven, they wouldn’t be an atheist any more… would they? o_O
Anyone who says that I or any other atheist is going to heaven because we’re moral is missing the fact that this means you can necessarily work your way into heaven — the bible is pretty clear that you’re saved by grace, not works.
But heaven doesn’t exist. Oooooh.
the pope
Christian fruitcake, I like your story.
i’m a good atheist! hah
Well from my perspective, neither will go to heaven
for i believe there is no such thing.
Yo momma.
Everyone’s going to heaven. . .
We didn’t ask to be born, did we?
And I don’t see how God can be so cruel as to give us an eternity in hell. . .
The bad Christian.
One MUST believe in Jesus Christ to enter the Kingdom of God. That is truth, solid truth. So, an atheist can not enter Heaven.
However, a “bad” Christian, or someone who didn’t completely serve Jesus on earth will not receive a reward in Heaven. We still DO reap what we sew.
Neither — being good or bad doesn’t cut it. God looks at the heart. It depends if you have a personal relationship with Him. My guess is that neither of them do… but only God knows.
Bad Christian.
The only way to Heaven is through accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and although the Christian may be “bad” they have accepted Christ.
As for the atheist, there’s no such thing as “good” when it comes to salvation.
“why would an atheist want to go to a Christian heaven? also, why do atheists think they have the right to define a Christian god? Either atheists should make up their own god, or they should stop trying to reimagine the Christian God.
Christians go to Christian heaven.
Atheists just die.
Agnostics… well, they’ll find out.
Posted 3/29/2007 4:39 PM by Bokgwai”
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian?
neither.
I thought the path to the glorious afterlife was to bomb the infidels.
Depends on who you’re asking… if you’re asking an atheist.. welll… that doesn’t really matter.. and if you’re asking a christian… it’s the christian… and if you’re asking someone who really has no clue.. they’ll say anyone who is good…. which doesn’t necessarily mean that the christan won’t and the atheist will.. it all depends on how good and how bad we’re talking.
“Everyone’s going to heaven. . .
We didn’t ask to be born, did we?
And I don’t see how God can be so cruel as to give us an eternity in hell. . .
Posted 3/29/2007 4:42 PM by TransexualTwat”
You people will rationalize all day so that you can keep believing in god and heaven and angels and whatever else you toss into that crock of care-bear bullshit that you believe in.
God sending people to hell doesn’t make sense? It’s not that contradictory when you consider all the people he killed in the old testament. Maybe, just maybe, God doesn’t exist. But then you wouldn’t get to believe in a heaven that you go to with a loving god, and spend eternity with all of your loved ones and friends, would you? Good reasons are not criterion for belief in god and and afterlife — all you need is to be a wishful thinker.
According to the God that I’ve been hearing about, he would accept the bad Christian.
But the god I wish existed? Would let in both.
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian?
Posted 3/29/2007 4:45 PM by ComaWhiteX
I would have to say that you wouldn’t enter Heaven because you said nothing to the fact of accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, believing that He died on the cross for your sins, etc.
They’ll both not get in, they’re about the same
This is fun, Matthew 7:21-23, from The Message:
“Knowing the correct password—saying ‘Master, Master,’ for instance— isn’t going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’
–Jesus
The “bad” Christian. We’re all “bad” Christians because we’re all sinners. Salvation isn’t dependent on whether or not we are “good,” but whether or not we accept Christ. That, unfortunately, eliminates the atheist. The good news is, salvation is available to them as well, whenever they happen to decide to accept Him.
“To answer your question, since it is by the grace of God and not because of works. the bad christian will get in every time.”
That whole story was sweet and whatnot, but it’s kind of lame. I’m pretty sure this “bad Christian” isn’t just an average guy with a great family like the one in your story. The only reason you may have titled him “bad” is because he couldn’t think up 1000 good things he’s done. How many of us could? That’s ridiculous. This isn’t “bad.” This is average. This is normal.
I don’t know where I’m going with that. Never mind.
neither
As long as you give all of youself to him you’re in..
the end
Personally, my view of God is that he is like the ultimate parent. A parent who wants to teach his children as much as he can, help them when they’re down, support them through thick and thin, and offer them unconditional love. My view of God is that he is very forgiving. If the Christian in question is “bad” (which is subjective in and of itself), I’m sure God would be willing to forgive that person and offer him/her a second chance. As for the athiest, I also think he’d forgive him or her. I guess it also matters on the “good” and “bad.” If by good, you mean that this person respects others and tries to do good by others, is kind, caring, considerate, etc… I’m sure God would have no problem letting this person into heaven.
Of course, I don’t personally believe in hell, because God in my eyes as a father would not want to put his children through eternal torture.
A bad Christian because he or she will ask for forgiveness at the last minute.
These answers I’m seeing are actually.. EXTREMELY LAME. Most people are saying the bad Christian.
So, basically, it doesn’t matter what you do in life, as long as you’re born into Christianity and you live calling yourself one and believing all that ish?
Fucking ridiculous.
Is there a naked man on the newspaper in the lower right hand corner?
bad christian
Okayyy. How about Deists, hmm? I believe in God, but I don’t have a religion, mainly because I just don’t agree with any of them. At ALL. But if I were to live my life morally and accept and love everyone, and be truly devoted to God…are you saying I would go to hell because my god isn’t Christian?
Posted 3/29/2007 4:45 PM by ComaWhiteX
Tongue in cheek, friend. Read back over what I said. “Atheists should make up their own god…” haha… atheists don’t believe in god, period. they don’t believe in an afterlife… therefore, they just die.
“agnostics… I guess they’ll find out.” agnostics don’t know if there is a god or a heaven. If there is one, they don’t know which one it is. thusly, “they’ll find out.”
I say this all jokingly, but there is underlying truth. Christians do indeed go to a Christian heaven. And agnostics will truly one day find out. Now, if you’re concerned about going to hell, then perhaps now is the time to do some research and find out more about the Christian God. If you’re not so concerned about going to hell, then don’t get so worked up over a silly comment on a silly question.
“If a person is ashamed of me and my message, I , the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when I return in my glory and in the glory of the Father and the holy angels.”
WishingOnKarma,
These answers I’m seeing are actually.. EXTREMELY LAME. Most people are saying the bad Christian.
So, basically, it doesn’t matter what you do in life, as long as you’re born into Christianity and you live calling yourself one and believing all that ish?
Fucking ridiculous.
Posted 3/29/2007 4:51 PM by WishingOnKarma
Read the Bible:
“Knowing the correct password—saying ‘Master, Master,’ for instance— isn’t going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, ‘Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.’ And do you know what I am going to say? ‘You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don’t impress me one bit. You’re out of here.’
–Jesus Matthew 7:21-23
Bad Christian. Entrance to heaven is not based on works. Sin is sin to God.
Romans 3:10-11, 23 says: “There is no one righteous, not even one; no one who understands, no one who seeks God. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”
A result of sin is death
Romans 6:23 says: “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.”
A gift is free, you don’t have to do anything for it and it available to all, you just have to accept the gift. After all, how can you have a gift, if you dont accept it first.
Romans 10: 9-10, 13 says: “If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your hear that you believe and are justified, and it is wht your mouth that you confess and are saved. For, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’”
So many religions believe that good works give you good results, but in Christianity it doesn’t work that way. Everyone has sinned. God hates sin. God, however, loves us, so he offers a free gift of salvation. He sent Jesus, the blameless one, to take the sin for us. That is why the cross is so important. It represents the death of our sins. Jesus died in our place. If Christianity was based around good works, then the death of Jesus would be unnecessary.
The only reason Christians should do good things is out of thankfulness for the sacrifice made for them.
Romans 12: 1 says: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God – this is your spiritual act of worship.”
thats from Luke 9:25
I think a person that did worthwhile things with their life and helped and loved is more deserving than someone that hurt others and didn’t live their life well, no matter what they claim to believe.
What exactly makes a “good person,” anyway?
Luckily, that’s not my decision to decide.
I have a fucking headache.
ha. if god existed, and was everything people claimed him to be, then the good atheist. but god doesn’t exist. so, neither.
You assholes have a strong metaphysical need.
You assholes have a strong metaphysical need.
Posted 3/29/2007 5:01 PM by Yohsiph
ouch! namecalling! You don’t sound like a good atheist today…
Okay, I guess my real question is, what makes a person //bad//? What makes them a bad Christian? Specifically? Because I guess it isn’t what I’m thinking.
Both…but only if the atheist has received and accepted the salvation message!
Nobody goes to heaven…
The problem with anyone going anywhere because they were good is the problem with morality itself: it’s relative. There is not absolute, eternal, unchanging good or evil, and so it’s ridiculous to say that a person can go to heaven for doing something “good” because to the person they did it to, or perhaps in another culture, it could be bad.
For instance, it used to be acceptable for a woman to marry at the age of 15 to a man who was 25. Not today! The guy would be called a “sick” pedophile, a cradle-robber, and probably going to hell.
Maybe you fucking ignorant jackasses should wise up and realize that there’s complete other world of things to learn about, not just outside country you live in, but in the past also; there’s a lot more to life and living it that what you bible has to say about it, and morality is so fucking diverse you can’t go kicking down the doors to other people’s cultures and saying they need to ask some fucking hippy into their heart — they wont know what the fuck you’re talking about and hopefully they’ll impale you for attempting to poison life with your sick ascetic morality.
An atheists has rejected God. I don’t see God forcing someone to spend eternity with him.
dan… you post these questions knowing people will argue for hours, no?
John 14:6-
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
those who do not believe will not be admitted into heaven.
those who do, will be.
I don’t believe in God, actually.. but if I did, I wouldn’t believe in Christian God.. my philosophy is if there is a God, he’ll punish everyone’s shortcomings and reward everyone’s wrongdoings.. so there’ll be good and bad for us all in the afterlife, should it exist.
This is rather a slanted question, opposing Christian to atheist, as thought to say that a non-Christian is an atheist. What about a good – or bad – Buddhist, Muslim etc? But to stick with the question: if the Christian is a “bad Christian,” then why should he fare any better than an atheist. I do believe that one of the gospels says that the blessing is in the doing, not the hearing and that at some time many will say “I called you Lord,” to which he will wisper back into their shell-like ear “I never knew you.”
the bad christian.
everyone sins, and severity of sins is a myth. all sins are equally bad. so, unless the aitheist is absolutely sinnless, the christian (no matter how bad whatever he did was) will go to heaven, simply because of his relationship with christ.
peace, love, hummer
JP
Bad Christian probably.
Eh, it’s ok, God’s kind of a dick.
If God is as good as he’s made out to be, a “Christian” who committed horrible crimes, even though they say they “asked God to forgive him” should be lower on the list than an atheist who spent they’re lives helping people & being kind to everyone.
Now, an atheist who went through life being hostile to all believers, that’s different. But most atheists I know are incredible people and much kinder than most Christians I have met.
I don’t know who’d make it into Heaven though.
Neither. Only those who claim the blood of Jesus will be allowed in.
neither. I’ve noticed that lot of people are giving simple Sunday school answers, saying that all you need to do is believe in Christ. There is so much more than that–I have several atheist friends who will agree that Jesus existed and was a good teacher–in fact even Satan believes that. Salvation is not just believe in Christ, it is allowing Christ to run your life.
sugary_tears:
“If you’re bad than you’re not REALLY a Christian.”
What??? Are we believing in the same Scriptures?? The Scriptures that say “There is none righteous; No not one”? Jesus makes us righteous through His sacrifice, but does that mean that the root of us is not bad? Does that mean that we are still not guilty of the sins of this world and fallen into human depravity? Of course not. Jesus has saved me and redeemed me, but that does not make me without failure.
God is an asshole, so I’d say the bad Christian.
What heaven?
You die, and end up a rotting remnant of carbon lifeform. The end.
a bad Christian at least their name is in the book of life
Man you all need to read some Augustine. Just quoting some Sunday school answers and sharing a few Bible verses doesn’t mean you understand it. I think that the Bible is true, yes, and therefore I think that when you quote Scripture (as long as you are using it in context, which some of you are) then you are sharing truth. BUT, I can make truth claims until I die, but knowing the truth and understanding the truth are way different.
Haha, you guys worry about heaven, I will be chilling here on earth when I am reincarnated yet again.
Look for Jesus and paradise all you want, I am just a single spirit soul trying to make my way back to Krishna after experiencing paradise on earth, material living.
Y’all are wack, but that’s the Christian in me speaking, not the Hindu
HARE KRISHNA!
This question makes my head hurt…
Neither; both aren’t Mormon
Eh, neither.
neither
good question.
Haha. I love South Park :]
A good atheist.
well since athiests dont believe in God, then not them, but if youre a “bad” christian than you probably arent truly a christian so neither, everyone sins, thats a given, you cant expect to have a true relationship with Christ and not try to turn away from your sin
The bad Christian.. because they still believe.
Neither.
Nonbelievers aren’t alowed in.
And the bad christian won’t either.
Of course the good athiest would ask “God? Heaven?” That’s something for the bad Christian to work out.
We cannot know for sure. We as humans cannot see into the heart of either one to know what is in there. It is possible that they are both only pretending to be what we see.
The key to heaven is in accepting Christ into your heart, which is also what it takes to be a christian. Unfortunately we have altered being a Christian into simply going to church.
Well what matters is what God word says:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:9-11
That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:15-17
God saves His enemies and makes them His friends and He changes their lives although the changing isn’t complete until Heaven. If someone hasn’t surrendured their lives to Christ then they are still enemies of God even if they did “good” things if they havn’t loved God with all their heart soul mind and strength and loved their neighbor as themselves perfectly they have broken God’s law and aren’t good enough to enter Heaven on their own. We need Christ’s righteousness to cover our sin. end of story. There arn’t any other ways to be right with God. Once we have asked God for forgiveness He begins to change our lives.
It is sad how many churches today don’t preach what the Bible says but rather preach that we can actually be good enough for God. Why would Jesus Christ, the Son of God DIE on the cross if we were good enough to get into Heaven without Him?
good atheist
Bad Christian.
Atheist won’t get in because he doesn’t believe it exists.
As a non-believer in heaven, I’m not entirely sure how to answer this question…
Getting into heaven isn’t about being good enough. No one is good enough. Breaking the law at one point disqualifies you.
That being the case, the only way to “get in” is for your punishment to be paid by someone else. Jesus died to pay that punishment.
A person who rejects God, no matter how great of a citizen/neighbor/parent/whatever, can’t be good enough.
A Christian accepts Jesus’ death on his/her behalf.
A Christian who is “bad” walks a dangerous line. Living an unrepentant life leads to apostasy.
It’s all or nothing. Nobody will achieve all on their own merits.
I may expand this and include Scripture later when I have more time. I may not.
“Good” and “Bad” are weak descriptions of a man’s character. But honestly, if you think about it in hte big picture – an atheist doesn’t believe in God.
But whatever, God judges people in whatever way He wishes. He forgives who He pleases.
My friend, niether one of them. John 3:6 says you must be born again(or saved). By the merits of you own work useless. Dur righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God. It takes the blood of Jesus to cleanse all the unrighteousness we have and we must put on the righteousness of Christ. C.S.
I believe Jesus said at one point that many people would say to him, “Lord, Lord….blah blah blah…” and he said, “Depart from me, you evil doers. I don’t know you.”
the person who gets into heaven will be the one who fed the hungry, loved the orphan and the elderly, visited the sick and the people in prison, gave a loser a chance to be a winner, made peace instead of war, loved instead of hated, forgave instead of held a grudge….
Lots and lots of modern day pharisees think they are on the fast road to heaven.
I think they might have a big surprise awaiting them.
Love is the greatest out of hope, faith, and love. Just live your life out of love for people, and if you believe in God, for God. God’s mercy is infinite.
I agree with Ancient_Scribe.
A) there aren’t any “good” people.
B) deeds alone can’t save you.
Thus, the Christian. It’s like a, “Glad to see you, but too bad you didn’t do anything worthwhile on Earth.” moment.
I’d say good atheist though. Do we know the person’s heart? Do we know the bad Christian’s heart? No, we do not. Only God can decide, because only He knows your heart along with yourself.
Anna_Lanche put it well.
Well, you have to be a Christian to go to heaven, so it would definately be the Christian. Good works don’t get you to heaven.
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
A GOOD ATHEIST hands down. there are people who are “better” (im not saying they dont sin either, cuz everyone does) than christians yet are not religious. THEY will go to heaven over a LABELED CHRISTIAN who just goes to church just for the name. even God will recognize who truly deserves to be in Heaven.
i think some christians feel that just because they “believe” in him, they will go to Heaven. I dont think that is true, AT ALL.
bad Christian is an oxymoron
& in response to the people who are sayingi that “the only way into heaven is through Jesus,” that doesn’t mean JUST believing in him. you’re taking a passage out of context. it means following through 100%, which means following what the Bible says, INCLUDING being a good person, aka INCLUDING good deeds.
For all you Christians who said the latter: guess what, you CAN lose your salvation. Oh, so you murdered someone and still think you have a ticket to Heaven? Go to confession, or you make hell your home.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21.
I have no clue because I am not God, I am just taking a guess that it would be the latter. Yeah, we’re saved by the grace of God! But you can lose that grace. Has anyone here died? If so, tell me if there are former atheists in heaven.
Who knows, maybe good atheists will have a change of heart after they die. Maybe good atheists have a choice, and then they can either take the eternal joy or eternal unhappiness. Your choice!
“I’d rather die than go to heaven!”
-William Murderface
What’s the point in claiming to be a religion if you don’t practice it?
Vague terms like “good” or “bad” can be dangerous, precisely because they are so vague.
What does it take to be a “good” person? Is 100% moral perfection required, or will something less be adequate? Is someone who is moral 99% of the time a “good” person? What about 98%? 90%? 75%? 50% or less?
See, it’s that kind of sliding scale that makes these terms so … well, relative. A shoplifter is good, if compared to a rapist. Someone who gives half of all he owns to charity is bad, compared to someone who gives 90% of all he owns.
Usually, people use themselves as a marker. People think “someone who is worse than me is bad, someone who is better than me is good.”
So what does God think? Actually, God uses Himself as a marker. Anyone who is worse than Him is bad, anyone who is as good as Him is good. (There isn’t any getting better than God, since God is perfect.)
By that definition, how many of us are good? None at all. So in reality, there are no “good athiests”, just as there are no good Christians or good Jews or good Buddhists or whatever.
What about the “bad Christian”? Only God knows for sure. We mortals, who have limited knowledge and perception into a person’s heart, simply don’t have the tools at hand to make a sound determination.
However, if a person calls himself a Christian, yet lives like an unbeliever, I’ll treat him like the Christian he claims to be. I’ll point out how he’s living and how it doesn’t match up with what he’s saying. I’ll tell him about how his lifestyle is not only hurting his own life, but the lives of those around him as well. And I’ll also remind him that the unbelieving world is watching, and when they see him living in unrepentant sin it makes them more callous to their own need for salvation. The rest, really, is between him and God. I can tell my “bad” Christian brothers and sisters about their need to repent, but I can’t make their choices for them.
I don’t see how a logical person who honestly believes in heaven would be able to think that simply believing in something makes you better than someone else. If I was born in a cave and was never presented with the idea of God, or Jesus, but lived my life better than say Hitler, who was a devote Christian– and you’re gonna tell me he’s gonna get in and I’m not then you’re an idiot.
being good doesn’t get u into heaven…accepting God does…so a bad christian just might get in
In the Bible, Jesus said, “There is none good but God alone.” A ‘good’ atheist is a non-existant entity, and a TRUE Christian will live a life of goodness by the grace of God. If a Christian is living in deliberate sin, unrepentant, it is sufficient proof that they are not “in Christ” and will not inheret His kingdom.
I think everyone gets in eventually… but if youre really bad you probably go to Hell & work your way out of it.. or maybe not.
why would God want some one who didn’t believe in Him in heaven?
neither
Luther says the bad Christian (faith alone!), Zwingli says both (though I am less sure that he would admit the atheist, but he did expect to see Socrates in heaven), and Calvin says whoever is of the elect and predestined to go to heaven. Sorry, I just took a Religion test.
a bad christian. you have to believe that God died on the Cross for your sins to get into Heaven.
Hmmm…the good athiest…although, I am agnostic, so I don’t really care (I’m apathetic too!)
A bad christian, undoubtedly.
You have to believe, not have good works.
Heaven doesn’t exist. Even as a Christian, only about 5 years ago, I didn’t conceive heaven as a place, but a state of being. Often it baffles me when Christians assert a physical existence of heaven, god, or the soul. Slightly ridiculous in my opinion.
People are assuming a lot on the basis of Christian/Atheist. But there are a lot of other religions out there… does your Christian god accept them into heaven by your strict ideals or what? What if someone never comes into contact with Christianity, ever in their life, and cannot make the choice to “accept Jesus Christ into their heart?” Technically, your god made them, right? So does he still welcome them into his kingdom? Does your god hate all of the little babies in the world who aren’t baptized or choose to “accept Jesus Christ into their hearts?’
There is so much flawed thinking in Christianity… and many good goddamned reasons why people leave such a silly faith! Also, I laugh in the face of anyone who honestly thinks “bad Christian” is an oxymoron. How absurd! Oh dearie me.
One day I will die and somehow something’s gonna steal my carbon… and maybe I’ll be fortunate enough to live again. I’d like to.
Neither deserve heaven because no one does. Only the repentant sinner who has faith in the finished work of Christ upon the cross and His resurrection has the hope of heaven. It’s not earned, it’s grace and can only be received by faith.
it’s not about being good or bad. it’s about believing that Jesus Christ is God’s Son and you have asked Him to be the Savior of your life. We are all sinners… The athiest needs to accept Christ to get to heaven.
i’m an agnostic catholic and to my knowledge in the bible no one goes to heaven
There are no good people, but the “bad Christian” will be accepted into Heaven.
a good atheist,no doubt about it…bc in the Bible it says that God looks more harshly on those who sin knowingly(already knowing Him)…so yea..
gina
I go with the good atheist.
Also funny: “Atheists don’t believe in heaven, so they can’t get in.”
Believing makes it real?
that’s if you actually believe in that stuff. I guess a good atheist. but God loves & forgives everyone, no?
good atheist
but that question can be answered differently depending on if ur a christian or not
No-one’s good. It’s this little thing called We-All-Suck-At-Being-Human (also known as original sin or total depravity).
So it’s not a question of whether God will turn away good people–because there are no good people to turn away. The real question is, why should he let any of us in?
well all christians are bad aren’t they… because we all sin… so the christian. although, i’ve always had trouble believing that my athiest father won’t make it to heaven. if i believe in his salvation, would he?
My religious situation is complicated. First off, Christianity is my least favorite religion, so don’t try to convert me. Buddhism (although not technically a religion) is probably my favorite, because they use gods as metaphors, and don’t actually believe that there’s some all powerful dude hanging around controlling our lives.
What I do believe however, that there was an initial force that kinda pushed the whole universe(s) into motion. I doubt whatever force that was is still hanging around and talking shit to the non-believers, but I’m fairly sure that it must have existed at some point. So yeah, I don’t believe in a single entity, but more like something that could be likened to electricity, or gravity. I think the Greeks called it ether.
God is a real asshole if he’d take someone like Hitler over an atheist that did good works, but just not in his name. That’s another thing that pisses me off about Christians, nothing is truly a good work unless it was done in the name of Christ the savior or whatever, and no one is truly a good person unless they “accept” that.
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t.
I like the way Alistair Begg explains it:
“It’s not like heaven is a place where the good people go and hell is the place where the bad people go. The bad people go one of 2 places: To heaven–and never deservingly or to hell and never unwillingly.
No one goes to heaven deservingly, and no one goes to hell unwillingly. Heaven is a place for sinners who trust in God for salvation and hell is a place for sinners who choose not to trust in God for salvation .”
-Alistair Begg http://www.truthforlife.org
good atheist, mainly because i don’t believe the crap about “if you believe jesus is your savior you’ll go to heaven” (i believe he is my savior, but i dont in the last bit think that will get me into heaven)
Bad Christian. That’s the way it works, or so I’ve come to understand.
I do know in the middle ages even being a good Catholic wasn’t quite enough to get you in; you were supposed to be educated, too.
Bummer for all the illiterates, yeah?
The Christian – salvation (and therefore Heaven) is based on some very clear instructions, which is through Jesus Christ alone. No man is good enough apart from Christ.
bad christians are like bad cops-horrid
but that doesn’t mean that all good christians are perfect, but they should strive to be.
so, I vote for neither
A “bad” Christian…but, while I believe we are all sinners and there are Christians who do things they shouldn’t, there are those who claim to be Christians and really are not. These people may appear like bad Christians (some may even appear good) to the world, and I do not believe that these people will be saved.
Jesus is the way…without him, you’re not getting in.
I know this soudns cliche, but I think heaven and hell is a state of mind.
Human beings weren’t designed to reside in “heaven”. I think a few will make it there, but the vast majority of humanity will always reside in the physical realm.
So, to answer your question, neither.
-Isaac
N/A
neither?
a “good” atheist, does that mean someone with moral values ? xD
a christian can be a “bad” christian and still have good morals, but just not go to mass on sundays. So that means that a bad christian is the same as a good atheist. ergo, i think that they’ll both make it xP that’s personal belief. God made humans flawed, i figure as long as u dont comment a mortal sin u’re fine. u dont need to be a christian to repent for venal sin…
Those damned Atheists! When will they learn!? Being a good Christian, and thus, going to heaven, has nothing to do with doing good in the world, it’s about proclaiming your love for God and Christ! God doesn’t care what you do as long as you pamper his vain personality into believing you love him. Damn those Atheists. Literally.
Even the best sort of an Atheist, one who spends his entire life in the service of others, one who lives his entire life giving, and helping, and doing good unto others… he’s not the kind God wants in heaven. Noooo, God has standards, you know.
“a “good” atheist, does that mean someone with moral values ?
a christian can be a “bad” christian and still have good morals, but just not go to mass on sundays. So that means that a bad christian is the same as a good atheist.”
Posted 3/29/2007 7:49 PM by outmate
Egads! What a piece of brilliant detective work there. Logic is the best friend of any Christian, it seems.
“Human beings weren’t designed to reside in “heaven”. I think a few will make it there, but the vast majority of humanity will always reside in the physical realm.”
Posted 3/29/2007 7:45 PM by IsaacRW
The ‘physical realm’? Isn’t that the ‘real’ world, ‘twixt heaven and hell? Does… that mean immortality? If so… wooot! Cancel my coffin commission.
Bad Christian.
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t.
Posted 3/29/2007 7:04 PM by Far_Skies
That’s just scary as a view-point…
Wow you people really do scare me. This is my problem with religion…it doesn’t matter how good of a person you are.
A bad christian. If you believe in God from the Christian perspective, you will know that because of sin, nobody on earth is “good.” We’re all equally sinful. So since the good/bad doesn’t apply, the Christian would be going to heaven.
Bad Christians?
Were all bad, end of story.
I want to say good atheist, because let’s hypothetically say that that person was “perfect” (sinless) aside from “blasphemy”. So that should be better than a sinful person with one good deed (accepting Christ). But it doesn’t work that way. Which is my exact problem with religion. So I guess, if I’m wrong (about the nonexistance of God), this question will play a big part in my “afterlife”. Hahahah.
A bad Christian would get into heaven – an atheist wouldn’t. But the bad Christian wouldn’t receive many rewards up in heaven either…
There is no good or bad… only those who have faith in God and those who don’t.
Posted 3/29/2007 7:04 PM by Far_Skies
First, I wanna make myself flamer free by saying that this person is entitled to their opinion.
Now, this is what I meant. A lot of universally accepted bad people truly believed in the salvation of Christ. Hitler, Torquemada, Richard the LionHearted (read up on the crusades a lil’ closer for this one.) and finally and modernly and just cuz I have to: Bush. If God really is almighty and all knowing he should be able to see the suffering and goodness in those who fell before these evil men and grant them salvation even though they did not believe. But he won’t. So I don’t believe. Catch 22, eh?
You guys are all poo heads. >=D
People think that “Being a Christian” is about religion and being good to others and all that… It’s not. A Christian is a person who seeks God, serves God, and obey’s his commands. So I say neither. A “bad Christian” wouldn’t be serving God. Serving God would be following his commands (The bible.) and trying to live their life to please God and to help others. An Atheist doesn’t believe in God, so wouldn’t have a relationship with him, or anything else I mentioned – yes, they wouldn’t even go to heaven if they saved everyone in the world. Going to Mcdonalds doesn’t make you a hamburger, and just like going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. To be a Christian, you have to seek, obey, serve, and have a relationship with God. So my anwser is a firm -Neither of them would make it to heaven.
NikBv: I heart you!
To the people who say salvation only exists through Christ, your wrong. The real salvation is life.
What I do believe however, that there was an initial force that kinda pushed the whole universe(s) into motion. I doubt whatever force that was is still hanging around and talking shit to the non-believers, but I’m fairly sure that it must have existed at some point. So yeah, I don’t believe in a single entity, but more like something that could be likened to electricity, or gravity. I think the Greeks called it ether.
God is a real asshole if he’d take someone like Hitler over an atheist that did good works, but just not in his name. That’s another thing that pisses me off about Christians, nothing is truly a good work unless it was done in the name of Christ the savior or whatever, and no one is truly a good person unless they “accept” that.
Posted 3/29/2007 6:59 PM by highlyamusing
That “thing” was probably the laws of physics.
whichever God’s chosen. (I’m a Calvinist)
either / or fallacy
Ok, most of you are really retarded. Good deeds WILL NOT get you into heaven. It states in the Bible that only letting God in your heart and repenting your sins gets you into Heaven.
Some idiot is going to say “u cant be an atheist and be good!!!! atheists are immoral and just MEEE33N omgz!!”.
Christian.
Soultender speaks the truth, but I just got this picture in my head of an Atheist entering Heaven and seeing God for the first time. Man, what a shock to the system!! I’m thinking he might just stand there and wet on himself and loose all control of his bowels just before he fell on his face and began to confess what an idiot he had been. Then the worshipping would begin…….
read the bible. ask God.
there’s that whole clause about believing in Jesus to get into heaven, so the christian.
How good is good enough to enter a perfect paradise? What standard decides that you have done enough good to outweigh the bad? The only standard that God uses is whether a person has accepted His gift of salvation. Those who accept His grace and mercy are welcomed. Seems alot easier than trying to guess-work being good enough.
Being good doesn’t get you into Heaven.
The Christian would get in..either way. “Only way to salvation is through Christ.”
I just got this picture in my head of an Atheist entering Heaven and seeing God for the first time. Man, what a shock to the system!! I’m thinking he might just stand there and wet on himself and loose all control of his bowels just before he fell on his face and began to confess what an idiot he had been. Then the worshipping would begin…….
Posted 3/29/2007 8:35 PM by smandav
And I just got this picture of a Theist, dead, in the ground. Imagine his shock when nothing but an empty void greets him! Wont his face be red then, eh?
good atheist!
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it.
All the remarks will be “There is no God, and to prove it… uhh… the Bible has errors in it!”
That’s equivalent to saying “There is no George W. Bush, and to prove it… Let me tell you about his foreign policies and getting us involved in the war in Iraq…”
the “good” person, regardless of their religion.
a bad christain
A second brief thought… if God is the Creator and if God created heaven, why on earth do we think we get to play judge and jury on God’s standards?
According to the Bible if you are not a Christian you automatically go to hell. But, I think that’s NONSENSE. You should be judge based on what you did through out life and how you are from the inside. That means, bad Christians should be punished for all the bad things they did in life by going to hell like everyone else who is bad. So what if they are Christian. That does not automatically give them the right to do cruel things in life and get away with it because they are Christians. Such as killing another human bean. Think about it, does that sounds fair? As for the good atheist they should go to heaven. Even though they are not Christians they have full fill the basic intention what GOD really want from them. Doing good deeds and love others.
Neither. You gotta FIRST accept God, and then second you have to have a relationship with Him.
Well, considering that the only way to Heaven is through Him… I’d have to say the bad Christian. Which is somewhat stupid, but it’s the truth.
Through Christ is the only why…so I would have to say the “bad Christian”…but that is assuming that they accepted Christ as Savior…not just said they were a christian cause they went to church.
Heaven doesn’t exist.
So what if they are Christian. That does not automatically give them the right to do cruel things in life and get away with it because they are Christians. Such as killing another human bean.
Posted 3/29/2007 9:09 PM by findingliberty
With all do respect findingliberty, you are thinking of Christian as simply a title. A world-view of Christianity. You have to understand what Christianity is in the context of Christianity. “Christian” is one that believes in Christ, accepts Christ as savior, and is made a new creature through Christ. Someone that commits their life to Him doesn’t take it as entitlement to murder.
What about other religions? Are they wrong? who’s right?
I am an atheist myself but I do wonder how something like religion rules the worlds and diverse it.
What I believe is that the bible is a metaphor to what happen ( going along with the big bang theory)
and our ancestors couldn’t comprehend what is actually going on in the world
so they created a book called the bible but it was taken too seriously.
Man created god not the other way around.
People say that man was created in the image of god? Psht.
I think that men created god so its something that they can seek comfort in.
A familiar comprehendible “force” and blame or praise when things go right or wrong.
People are afraid of the unknown.
Why would god even bother to create an earth?
If he is as spectacular and powerful as a christian would have you believe,
why would he create earth?
Was god bored and decided, “oh I want to create a civilization of peace and happiness for eternity and they’ll only be two people who happen to be named adam and eve”?
Doesn’t god have something better to do then create a planet filled with greedy people
couldn’t he be greedy enough to just hover in space on his own.
“eve ate the apple though!”
i think the whole story is a decent fairytale, but nothing to take so seriously.
I mean COME ON.
…..
I find it funny when people yell at me for my “ lack of faith” when they believe in a non-existing god.
God can let anyone in to heaven that God wants, on Gods terms, not ours. I believe far more people are going to heaven than we give God credit for.
A new question: How is heaven defined?
A new thought: Assuming Christianity is true, would an atheist even be happy in heaven? Or would they stand with their eyes closed muttering “I am not here?”
“They are so afraid of being taken in that they can no longer be taken out.”
And I just got this picture of a Theist, dead, in the ground. Imagine his shock when nothing but an empty void greets him! Wont his face be red then, eh?
Posted 3/29/2007 8:42 PM by NikBv
haha that made me laugh
if you think about it once you are dead you are DEAD
now don’t go and think ( omg that so morbid omg dont talk lyke that ZOMG THATS HORRIBLE WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT)
But if you think about it, it makes sence.
before you were born, do you have any memories before hand?
no. you didn exsist.
now tell me, why would you continue to think and have rational thoughts like ” omg its a black void!”
when you died! your body shut down, it was worn out and you wont comprehend anything.
sure sure you can debate that your soul lives forever
but if it lives forever than why don’t you remember anything before you were born?
I don’t believe in any religion and i already have some people look at me in complete shock and thought i had no morals or was a good person.
but also if you think about it, if there is no heaven and hell and you wasted all your life dreaming that you’ll be there, your life would be a waste. ofcourse you’ll never know that because once you are dead. thats it.
I personally believe that since one ( like myself) doesn’t believe in anything like a god. it makes life much more precious.
According to the Bible if you are not a Christian you automatically go to hell. But, I think that’s NONSENSE. You should be judge based on what you did through out life and how you are from the inside.
That’s how it works, buddy. God examines your heart. If he finds that you are guiltless on account of accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you will enter heaven. That’s the first half. The second half is obeying his commandments. Jesus told the rich young man when asked how he could enter the kingdom “Obey the commandments”. If you were God, everyone would go to hell. That’s why I’m glad you’re not and I’m not God!
“Some idiot is going to say “u cant be an atheist and be good!!!! atheists are immoral and just MEEE33N omgz!!”.
Posted 3/29/2007 8:21 PM by bittersunday”
Word. Sonnnn.
The problem with anyone going anywhere because they were good is the problem with morality itself: it’s relative. There is not absolute, eternal, unchanging good or evil, and so it’s ridiculous to say that a person can go to heaven for doing something “good” because to the person they did it to, or perhaps in another culture, it could be bad.
For instance, it used to be acceptable for a woman to marry at the age of 15 to a man who was 25. Not today! The guy would be called a “sick” pedophile, a cradle-robber, and probably going to hell.
Maybe you fucking ignorant jackasses should wise up and realize that there’s complete other world of things to learn about, not just outside country you live in, but in the past also; there’s a lot more to life and living it that what you bible has to say about it, and morality is so fucking diverse you can’t go kicking down the doors to other people’s cultures and saying they need to ask some fucking hippy into their heart — they wont know what the fuck you’re talking about and hopefully they’ll impale you for attempting to poison life with your sick ascetic morality.
Posted 3/29/2007 5:10 PM by Yohsiph
For someone toting moral relativity, my friend, you sure violate your own principles. If all morals are relative, how can mine be “sick”? You are assuming an objective standard with which to judge moralities, and thus preaching the opposite of relativism.
If there IS NO objective standard by which to judge moral systems, then my proselytizing, allegedly life-poisoning, “sick ascetic morality” is just as good as yours–and you shouldn’t say bad things about it.
If there IS an objective standard by which to judge moral systems, who are you to claim that you know it? Support your hypothesis.
You can’t tout relativism unless you yourself adhere to relativistic principles.
(And for the record: Christianity doesn’t teach anyone goes anywhere because they’re good.)
Leonisafaefreak:
“What about other religions? Are they wrong? who’s right?”
The answer lies in the fact that two points of view that contradict each other cannot both be true at the same time in the same sense. For example, Christianity claims that Jesus is God. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus is not God.
So either Jesus is God and the Christians are right, or Jesus is not God and the JW’s are right. But they can’t both be right, can they? Can Jesus be both God and not God at the same time? Can you be standing up and sitting down at the same time? Can you be talking and not talking at the same time? The answer to these questions is obviously, “No.”
Some may object and say, “Well, Christianity may be true for you, but Mormonism is true for me – we have different truths.”
This is a very common viewpoint today, but it’s flawed at its core. When you say that something is true for you but not for me, you are misusing the word “true.” Truth is objective, not subjective (up to the individual). Subjective truth is really mere opinion. Mormonism and Christianity cannot both be true at the same time. Some people might claim that I am wrong to hold to such a view, but do you really think I’m wrong? What if I think I’m right? Can I be both wrong and right at the same time?
If you think I’m wrong, then you are proving my point. You wouldn’t say I am wrong and right at the same time, would you? You’d just say I’m wrong. And by doing so, you are affirming the fact that truth is a certain way – truth is objective, and contradictory claims cannot be both true and false at the same time.
I can’t be both right and wrong at the same time in the same sense. If I could, then you’d be right to say I’m wrong, and you’d be wrong to say I’m wrong. And that just doesn’t make sense. Right?
Taken from “http://larrylee.info/questionsanswered.php?item=23″ (Shut up, he explains it better than I can).
“If he is as spectacular and powerful as a christian would have you believe,
why would he create earth?”
’cause he loves you and wants to spend eternity with you. Duh!
Bad Christian
^Leonisafaefreak, I see what you’re saying. But I don’t have any memories of when I was three years old, either. Does it necessarily follow that I did not exist when I was three?
If people who do not believe in a solid, objective truth try to convince me of something, I can’t believe them. I can only take it for an opinion. You people are like birds flying constantly in the air, with no ground to stand on. Ever. You’ll eventually get tired and fall ’cause of your own stubbornness to not realize that truth is hard, solid ground, not something that anyone can decide.
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it.
Posted 3/29/2007 8:56 PM by This_Is_Important
I’d like to see a Christian prove the existence of God. Go ahead, try your best. Oh, what’s that? You have no point that I would accept without losing my own intellectual dignity?
This is a very common viewpoint today, but it’s flawed at its core. When you say that something is true for you but not for me, you are misusing the word “true.” Truth is objective, not subjective (up to the individual). Subjective truth is really mere opinion. Mormonism and Christianity cannot both be true at the same time. Some people might claim that I am wrong to hold to such a view, but do you really think I’m wrong? What if I think I’m right? Can I be both wrong and right at the same time?
I think you can :. Killing a parasite is bad and good at the same time; bad for tha parasite, good for the host (Usually)
Wow, lots of interesting answers. First of all, like others have said, heaven is not attained based on how bad or good you are, it comes down to what you did with the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. If you accepted God’s son as your payment for sin, and put your faith in him heaven isn’t just HOPED FOR, it’s guaranteed.
Honestly, people’s opinions aren’t what I want to hear, it’s God’s Word, absolute truth. Who cares what people think God SHOULD be to fit their little finite mind, ya know?
hahahahahahahahaha
what?!
technically if you really believe in god then neither of them should … the christian is bad and should go to “hell” and the athiest can go off in to never never land and be happy with their beliefs .
heres a good question … why do so many of you consider Athiest and Agnostics bad pple or not worthy?
i have morals and obey the laws and im nice and considerate to everyone i just dont believe in organized religion and god.
I’d like to see an atheist PROVE the nonexistence of God. Go ahead, prove it. You can’t do it.
Posted 3/29/2007 8:56 PM by This_Is_Important
And you can’t ‘prove’ that God exists, either. The burden of proof is on the person making the person attempting to establish the existence of something, not on the person who wants to disprove it exists.
Tallon5: Of course two conflicting opinions cannot feasibly both be true (well… it depends on what topic, and a discussion about existence beyond comprehension and such, but…). So what proof is there that any one specific version of Christianity is more true than any other, or any other religion at all, for a matter of fact? They all have pretty much the same amount of proof behind them (all of which seems to hinge on various ‘Holy books’.
Kind of IS a dumb question, not cause I dont’ care about the answer, but it’s a hypothetical situation. God doesn’t CHOOSE who gets into heaven, if you’re headed there, your name is written in the lamb’s book of life when you make Christ your personal Savior. it’s not like it’s a case-by-case basis. Either you’re a sinner, or you’re a sinner saved by grace, only two options.
Honestly, people’s opinions aren’t what I want to hear, it’s God’s Word, absolute truth. Who cares what people think God SHOULD be to fit their little finite mind, ya know?
Posted 3/29/2007 9:46 PM by theheem
Hah. Talk about a finite little mind.
Ya know?
^I don’t consider atheists and agnostics bad people or less worthy than I. The point is that “goodness” isn’t how you get to heaven, and none of us are worthy.
I don’t think you’re less worthy than I to jump across the Grand Canyon. Doesn’t mean you can do it (without help). Heck, neither can I (without help).
If people who do not believe in a solid, objective truth try to convince me of something, I can’t believe them. I can only take it for an opinion. You people are like birds flying constantly in the air, with no ground to stand on. Ever. You’ll eventually get tired and fall ’cause of your own stubbornness to not realize that truth is hard, solid ground, not something that anyone can decide.
Posted 3/29/2007 9:35 PM by Tallon5
I… really can’t tell if you are arguing for or against religion in that comment…I want to say against, but who knows…
Ian (ryoma136): Link
I think you can :. Killing a parasite is bad and good at the same time; bad for tha parasite, good for the host (Usually)
Posted 3/29/2007 9:39 PM by ryoma136
I’m not asking if it’s good for the person or parasite. I’m asking if a parasite can be both alive and dead at the same time.
Tallon5: Of course two conflicting opinions cannot feasibly both be true (well… it depends on what topic, and a discussion about existence beyond comprehension and such, but…). So what proof is there that any one specific version of Christianity is more true than any other, or any other religion at all, for a matter of fact? They all have pretty much the same amount of proof behind them (all of which seems to hinge on various ‘Holy books’.
Posted 3/29/2007 9:49 PM by NikBv
Opinions can be true. I wasn’t arguing for the proof that Christianity is true, or that is God is true. I’m just saying that truth exists, that it is not “your truth, my truth” – that it is somewhere, never-changing, out there and we should find it.
I… really can’t tell if you are arguing for or against religion in that comment…I want to say against, but who knows…
Posted 3/29/2007 9:51 PM by NikBv
I’m arguing for objective truth only.
bad christian of course. that is, if s/he believes
I know you’re just an angry young Muslim behind this Xanga interface.
Bad Christian because God will forgive you for your sins, but an atheist never believed in God at all.
The only way anyone is getting into heaven is if they have accepted Christ as their Savior. You don’t get in for just being good. You don’t get in because you paid hundreds of dollars to some charity. You don’t get in because your parents went to church for the last forty years. You don’t get in because of your heritage. You don’t get in because you are white, black, red, or yellow. You only get in if you acknowledge that you are a sinner, accept the free gift (Christ’s dying on the cross for your sins), and believe in Him (Jesus) that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Preaching, I know, but some people still don’t get it. What they are basing their thoughts on, I really don’t know? Read the scriptures. It is pretty plain. John 3:16, I John 1:9, Romans 3:23, Matthew 1:21, etc…
It is my understanding a person cannot get into heaven unless they accept Jesus as the Son of God. So I think that leaves the good atheist outside the gate looking in.
“all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”…people are confused. if a person is truly a christian they will trust God and do good things not because it will save them, but because its what God wants them to do.But because of man’s fallen nature they to will do bad things and fall into sin, but thanks to Jesus we are forgiven.If someone doesnt accepted christ, therefore are not a christian, they will not go into heaven.
Good atheists, of course
bad christian
LOL, great question…
Sincerely loaded question.
If you are assuming a God Exists, and it is the Christian God of a God. Than Neither, if it is something rather different, than both maybe.
Death is not consequential death is death. OR
You die by what you live by, in the end a good atheist has nothing to worry about in a non God world, but in the end the Christian would have a heavy guilt before they die. In either world.
So Atheist wins!
It is almost like saying shall we let the good atheist out of jail, as he did not commit any crime.
or Shall we release the bad Christian, who has raped and murdered countless people?
The only hell people bring are the ones they bring on themselves.
Religion is not a badge of honor, by default.
Ones own life is.
Babies are technically not “Christian” though if we have an early death they are by far “condemned”
well, isnt this a “can God build a rock so big he cannot carry it” type of question. If your looking from scripture, it seems that it is not based on works but on grace, so being “good” has nothing to do with it because we are all sinners. Though, hopefully a Christian will be good, a good witness and servant of God – not being a hypocrite.
Daniel (doubledb)
Ok now it is frustrating me, and I do apologize for the comment I am about to make.
some of the responses are to heartless and guided by a religious deterministic logic.
Ethics as this question is about ethics, is about choosing what is right, (at its best) and base on ones feelings and beliefs.
I’m amused by the way some of the people who consider themselves “Christian” sort of froth at the mouth and get damp in their panties at the idea of the “good atheist” going to hell.
Real Christ-like attitudes there.
I like what C.S. Lewis said in the last Narnia book–that Aslan takes all good that is done unto himself. Therefore, the “good atheist” would be accepted by God as a true son–just perhaps a son who didn’t know his dad until after he died….
I think that it must be true that God transcends all perceptions–and certainly transcends the narrow, legalistic limitations of a book written thousands and thousands of years ago by a tiny group of nomadic herders
neither~
NEITHER will get in. Sin cannot enter heaven, thus bad christians won’t make it either. christians can only be bad if they have sin in their lives. hmm.. that’s a thinker right.
why spend your whole life so focused on the destination? focus on the adventure while you’re here.
ummm well, you have to believe in God and put him first in your life!Your not ever going to make it to Heaven if you don’t even except him as your Creator and Savior. You by no means have to be perfect, just except Jesus in your heart. Alot of people think just because they are Christians that gets them into Heaven by God’s Grace! I heard this the other night and thought it was good! Grace is not a license to Sin It is the Power to overcome it. No one’s perfect and God knows that, but we need to try and be as Christ like as we can. If you are a Christian and a bad person than you aren’t letting God totally into your life. other than Salvation being 1st and most, Having God’s love in your life and including that in your everyday life is important too. If your not you aren’t living to your full potential as a Christian and then your missing out on God many Blessings! God Bless
ANYBODY WHO BELEIVES THEY’VE LIVED A GOOD LIFE
“I AM A LEAF ON THE WIND WATCH HOW I SOAR”
a “bad” christian. How can you get into heaven if you dont even believe he exists?
The good aetheist denies the existence of God. Though grace is given freely, aetheists will not accept it.
The bad Christian is saved by grace - meaning one has genuinely accepted Christ as his or her personal Lord and Savior. By faith, he knows that when he dies, there is eternal life - heaven. 1 John 5:11 “God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”
Now in terms of BAD and GOOD, no one is GOOD and BAD in the eyes of God. We are all equal because we are all fallen. We are justified through Christ and we have eternal life through Christ.
Romans 3:22 “This righeousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Sin is a SIN – PERIOD.
I think that the bad Christian will enter heaven.
1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightesouness.”
TO GOD BE THE GLORY AND HONOR!!!
If God lets a bad Christian into Heaven then he needs to do a better job.
The bad Christ follower.
have a daisy ~leveran~
or should I say the forgiven Christ follower?
have a daisy ~leveran~
Seeing as god isn’t real, the question seems rather…pointless. According to the bible though, if he did exist, he most likely wouldn’t let in either…the bad Christian because they most likely did something that wasn’t allowed, and the good Atheist simply because he doesn’t give up his freewill to god.
Actually, that is an issue I had thought about before. I would agree very much with Ancient_Scribe and squeakysoul that God will have a fair judgement of who is qualified to go to heaven. Rejecting a good atheist or agnostic and accepting a bad christian would seem slightly ridiculous in my view. But again, this is my view. He alone has the power of making the judgement in His own way.
This is one of the argument I always put to friends who are so very persistent in persuading me to be a Christian in a rather threatening and uncharismatic way. I’m a free thinker who believes in the existence of God but prefers the Buddism ideology. I find that those people who kept telling everyone that you have to be a Christian in order to escape eternal torture in hell are simply disgracing the religion. They make it sound as if Christianity is governed by fear which I would like to believe it isn’t.
thats a stupid question
an atheist obviously believes in no heaven and according to Christianity you cant be a bad christian
what exactly is a bad Christian? there are plenty of people that act in the name of Christianity that would freak out if they ever met Jesus. but there are also Christians that struggle through every new lesson in their lives. i guess in the end, i think only God knows the answer to that question, because he’s the only one that sees the true impulse and motivation behind our lives.
Probably neither, unless the bad Christian repents for the bad things he did. The Jesus won’t allow the atheist in because he denies God
Everyone is given a choice- Those who make the correct choice get to go “home”.
Asking if God will chose a “good atheist” over a “bad Christian” is kinda silly… That’s like asking a parent which one of their children they love the most… Besides, none of us are truly good, regardless of our religious views: We are all God’s children. and I think God loves all of his children….Not just the ones that “behave”.
we’re suppose to keep in mind that God is Just, He is about Justice, and He is “Fair”
even tho the bible says that only Christians can go to Heaven
God loves all humans, even the killers, and at the same time even the Devil himself
a bad Christian either way has to pay for his/her wrong doings, but eventually would go to Heaven
if God is Just, He would also put the Athiest in Heaven
some people believe that Heaven has many levels, but even the lowest is better than Earth
what is your definition of Bad Christian?
to be Christian, the main idea is keeping faith, loyalty, and pray, and help others by doing good
there are “Christians” that carry only the name but do nothing of a sort for God
in some denominations it is believed that God tends to His believers first, then His other children last
so it would be the Bad Christian
define “good” or “bad” for that matter.
The “bad” Christian will go to heaven because Christ saves through grace, not through works.
I believe that those who try to live a good life and who try to make life better for those around them, will go to Heaven, regardless of their religious affiliation (or lack thereof). I refuse to believe in a God that would dictate otherwise.
What is a bad Christian?
a bad Christian.
Good aethist, but neither have a good chance
Basing “salvation” on something as silly as a pattern of belief is the product of a series of governments which wish to keep their populus under contol, and it reflects that wholly.
However, if there be an actual diety, they are far more likely to base their criteria of entry to a positive afterlife on the lives of the people who wish to gain entry to it, if there is any criteria at all, which I would doubt. Otherwise, why would an omnipotent god who knows the future and destiny of his/her creation bother creating human beings knowing they are going to end up in Hell? That would be an indication of a sadistic personality, or of a lack of omnipotence, indication that the diety in question is not a diety at all.
1. To yourself, say the name of the only
guy or girl you wanna be with 3
times!
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2. Think of something you wanna accomplish
within the next week and say it to your self
6
times!!
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3. If you had 1 wish what would it be? say it to
yourself 9 times!!!
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4. Think of something that you want to happen
between you and that 1special person and say
it to your self 12
times!!!
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5. Now, heres the hard part! Pick only 1 of these wishes and as
you scroll down focus and
concentrate on it and think on nothing
else but that wish.
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Now make one last &final wish about that one wish
that you picked.
After reading this, you have 1 hour to send it out to 15 people,
and what
you wished for will come true within in one week!
u only get one chance!!!!! Now scroll down and think of your
crush!!!
Keep going
down
Keep going
Keep
going
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you think of your crush? I hope so, that was
your last chance. Now pay very close attention this important
message!
Sorry but once read, must be sent. Yes, this is one of those kinda
chain
letters that everyone hates. This one has been going since 1863
and
if you
break this chain, you will pay!!!!!! Remember that after hearing
these
stories
Depends on why the christian is bad and the atheist is good.
Who saved by Jesus Christ…even he is good or not…BY GRACE BUT NOT BY WORK…
This is why I hate Christians…. Some of them are the biggest assholes in history and they’re still like “Well God loves me, so I will go to heaven and YOU will go to hell.” Yeah, in my religion of you’ve-been-sucked-into-american-churches, I’m going to go to heaven because I’m actually a good person. Those other people will never deserve it. And you shouldn’t have to beg for forgiveness. He’ll know if you’re truly sorry.
good atheist, it is all about keeping the law for the Jesus Movement, read Matthew again.
Do you ever get the feeling its all been said, so whats the point?…
I don’t think either would make into Heaven, because niether one is really concerned about serving God; also how can you be a bad Christian that doesnt make sense?
I’m not even going to pretend that I think there is a right answer here…
Atheists are unbelievers no matter how good they are & they will not be allowed into heaven.
But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. -Revelation 22:8
Bad Christians
There is no such thing as a bad Christian there might be some Christians who struggle with different issues & error but in the end they still belong to Christ, they are still covered in the blood Christ shed on the cross & they are still saved.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. – 1 Peter 2:25
define “bad christian”.
Hi! I found your entry randomly on here and thought I’d comment…in response to ‘squeakysoul’…
I can see where you’re coming from having trouble thinking of God as someone who would keep good people out of Heaven…and I think I agree…I don’t believe that God keeps anyone out of Heaven who deserves to be there. The thing is, nobody deserves Heaven. Heaven is for those who are perfect and worthy to be in the presence of the One who is holy and loving and awesome and pure and…GOD. And all of us…from the axe murderer to those who are constantly giving to the poor and helping others…fall short of this standard. In order to be perfect, we have to be sinless…but the Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and that there is no one righteous…NOT EVEN ONE. (Romans 3:10). Everyone has done something…lied…cheated…stolen…rejected God’s love…And the good things we do don’t outweigh the bad…Isaiah 64:6 says that our righteousness is like filthy rags in God’s eyes. We can’t be good enough. The only thing we deserve is death. (Romans 6:23).
Kinda depressing, huh? But this is where the cool part comes in…God doesn’t want us to stay separated from Him! Romans 5:8 says: “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners” (not because we were good people!) “Christ died for us.” God loved us so much He sent His Son to die in our place! Jesus accepted our punishment, so that we can go to Heaven…we don’t go to Heaven because we the good we do outweighs the bad or because we are perfect. We can go to Heaven because Jesus clothes us with HIS righteousness…HIS perfection. Our eternal life is a gift from God…provided through Jesus. (Romans 6:23b)
In John 14:6 Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me.” Seems pretty clear to me at least…we can’t get there on our own…we can never, ever be good enough to deserve Heaven. Our sin separates us from God. But He offers Heaven as a free gift if we just believe! Romans 10:9-10 says, “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”
As for those who honestly don’t believe that God exists…Romans 1:18-20 says: “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Basically it’s saying, look at the world around you! Look at the complexity of the eye…the beauty of a sunset…the perfect position of planet earth to sustain life…the list goes on and on. Nature screams of a Creator. God’s thumbprint is on all of life. And you know what’s cool? (I know from personal experience) God will reveal Himself to those who doubt if they ask…Jeremiah 29:13 says that if we seek God with all our hearts, He will be found by us.
Sooo in response to the original question…no, I don’t believe good atheists go to Heaven. On the other hand, I don’t believe bad Christians go either…’cause I don’t think there is such a thing. Those who call themselves Christians and don’t live like it are not Christians. I John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in Him [Christ] keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him.” John isn’t saying here that doing good gets you into Heaven, but that a pure life is the result of belonging to Him…Matthew 7 talks about how those who truly belong to Christ ‘bear fruit.’ Just like an apple tree won’t produce oranges, those who belong to the ‘tree of Christ’ (heh heh…forgive the corniness of my summary) don’t produce fruit of sin… And the verses are not saying that Christians never mess up. What they’re saying is that true Christians do not make it a practice of continuing to sin…they are constantly becoming more like Jesus and learning to get rid of their sinful habits.
I know this is really long, and there’s still probably more i could say…so feel free to comment me or something if you want to talk more. I hope this has helped a little! Oh, and if you want to look up the verses I used and don’t have a Bible handy, biblegateway.com lets you look up Bible verses. It’s pretty handy!
Have a grrreat day.
hahahha i think all Christians suck at being Christians…to tell you the truth…we’ll never live up to Jesus’s standards. He’s God!
i think doing good deeds to get to a higher place in heaven is one of the most selfish things you can do.
I hate names. The only difference between one who has been saved and who hasn’t is the grace of God. Christians or not…we’re all on the same level. I’m sick of those Christians who rebuke those who don’t live up to their standards. I used to do it all the time…I probably will still do it. If we want to make a change…we need to start with ourselves.
I just want to say for those who have been hurt by a believer…I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I’ve hurt you or my brothers and sisters have. We all suck at being a Christian. I’m sorry that we have rebuked you when we should be the ones that should be rebuked. God’s awesome that he still uses us. I don’t understand why but that’s what God does.
He knows we’re going to fail him. The thing is…what does sin do to him? Bottomline it just hurts us.
The greatest downfall of Christiantiy is Christians themselves.
To answer the question. yes those who have recieved Christ into their hearts are going to heaven.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son. That whoever believes in him will have eternal life.”
Sorry…I know you’re going ot hate it…but that’s the truth. Christians and myself have slandered his name so many times. I believe Heaven is a place where we’re going to worship God forever. Why would someone who doesn’t believe in him want to do that?
Great question. Good feedback. I love your following.
Your question is a mystery which we will never know the answer to until we croak.
a muslim
A Christian is a Christian. Just because he is a “bad” Christian doesn’t mean he gets left out of salvation. The atheist will never reach salvation.
A good atheist doesn’t believe there is a God, so why would God condone their good lifestyles and let them into heaven. Everyone is bad, so being a bad christian is like saying,”if you drop a tomato, It’s gonna bruise.” DUH. everyone screws up, it’s by the Grace of God that we believe in our savlation and that he brings us into Heaven as a result of our faith.
you can’t be let into heaven without belief and faith.
you cant get into heaven by being good. u only get into heaven if your saved, if you believe. thats the only way. so i say a bad christian.
I’m praying for (c) All of the Above.
Neither. A “bad christian,” as in someone who’s bad at following God won’t get in (to be bad at following God by the way, you just have to not try) and an atheist wouldn’t have wanted to go anyway…but would they?
Either way, neither. That’s me anyway.
Athiests do not go to heaven ,good or bad. Christians,and I would really like to say something abbout what was commented on by ali cat… there is no such thin as a stupid question,especially when talking about our lord. There are such things as good christians and bad.Jesus died for us.We are all sinners,but I guess it all depends on how you look at it.all I can say is for the ignorant one’s whom don’t know what an athiest is and said that the GOOD ATHIEST would go to heaven first.Read the Bible and it will explain it.Look in the index at the back under ATHIEST.I am sorry to say and it truly is truly sad but, athiests do not ever go to heaven,unless they turn their lives over to God and ask for forgiveness and live as a christian.There is no such thing as a BAD CHRISTIAN or a GOOD CHRISTIAN,because we all make mistakes,we all tell fib’s big, or small.At one time or another we all have done things only God& our selves know about that is why we Prey to God and ask forgiveness every day.Of course this could be a very lengthy conversation but, for the record all christians (not good or bad)ALL OF US CHRISTIANS will happily go to HEAVEN.Sadly an Athiest will go to the other side, to hell.This all can be read in your Bible.I didn’t just make it up as i went along. If you are unsure like I said look in your Bible because it explains this topic&so much more………… Great Question.God Bless. Your friend Kendra P.S The Question is not contradictory at all,it may seem that way to you but, that may be only because, you are not aware, or were never informed.God loves us all from the pope to the man or woman on death row we are all his children.
Definitely a “bad” Christian. I don’t think this is a dumb question. I mean people do wonder about these things. But why would God let someone into heaven who doesn’t even believe that God exists? As stated before, works can’t get you into heaven, only believe that Christ died for our sins and that He’s the only way for us to get to heaven.
there are no good Christians, or good people for that matter. The Pharisees were as close to good as you can get, but they were really far off….God wants a heart after Him, not obediance to rules. The question doesn’t make sense. Eternal life is knowing God (John 17:3) so if you don’t even believe in GOd, how can you know HIm?
both; the atheist is still a child of god, supposedly, and all of god’s children are welcome to the kingdom of heaven. that’s why jesus died on the cross and we hide the eggs and eat chocolate bunnies. duh.
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Basing “salvation” on something as silly as a pattern of belief is the product of a series of governments which wish to keep their populus under contol, and it reflects that wholly.
However, if there be an actual diety, they are far more likely to base their criteria of entry to a positive afterlife on the lives of the people who wish to gain entry to it, if there is any criteria at all, which I would doubt. Otherwise, why would an omnipotent god who knows the future and destiny of his/her creation bother creating human beings knowing they are going to end up in Hell? That would be an indication of a sadistic personality, or of a lack of omnipotence, indication that the diety in question is not a diety at all.
Posted 3/30/2007 10:14 AM by SaffronFirefly
Reading the Bible would clear a lot of this up. Also, Jesus was not looked fondly upon by the government…so i dont’ think the first point makes sense
Good atheist.
this questions serves no positive purpose. it just divides people.
it doesnt matter if youre good or bad, its just hte fact that you accepted Christ as your savior.
a lot of good people go to hell and a lot of bad people go to heaven.
but it doesnt matter because Jesus died for all of us, to pay for our sins.
Everyone.
*First of all, no one can be defined as “BAD”. God loves everyone equally. He loves you more than you could ever love him. Even the people that us humans try to stay away from.
*Then, a true Christian tries to do the right thing. And Christians are never perfect. As long as you truly believe in God and that Jesus is his son, you are a Christian, no good or bad to you.
*Also, the only way to everlasting life is through Jesus himself. You have to belive in Jesus and take him into your life in order to ever to go to Heaven.
*Lastly, eventually the athiests will get a chance into heaven. God is going to give them a second chance to believe at the end of the world.
Depends if God is in the mood for a good argument
Squeakysoul gave a magnificent answer to a question that I have always forthrightly answered: a good atheist. But my answer contains a contradiction, because I doubt a true atheist believes in heaven in the first place. I’m more of a doubter than an atheist, and I have always said that IF there is a heaven, I’ll be admitted because I was a good person. And I have no doubts whatsover about that proposition. If there is a God, and if he/she is unmerciful enough to deny me, then it’s not the same God you purport to worship.
The bad christian
I would doubt that a bad Christian is really a Christian, but the answer to your hypothetical question would be the bad Christian. If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in is.
Bad Christian.
[ariana]
with absolutely no doubt at all, a good person is always better than a bad christian. god could not care less what beliefs one have, what matters are behavior. cheers
The bad christian, The book or Romans repetedly makes clear that we are saved by grace, not works. Christ says “I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except through me”
good Atheist
Man, as an atheist I’m getting a pretty sour taste of Christian beliefs.
The only way into heaven is through Jesus. “Good works” etc. cannot, although they may be an indication of where your heart lies. You could be a serial rapist murderer on your death bed and commit your life to Christ and in that moment be saved. i would not risk waiting till you die, though, because you never know when it is going to happen. You can’t get to heaven on good intentions, good deeds, anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Now, of course, if you say you believe in Jesus, yet your life has no evidence of it, people may start to wonder. You live what you believe. Of course, no one is perfect. I have been a Christian for 22 years now and I still have to remember it is not something that can be earned. However, because of Jesus’ great love for me I desire to grow closer to Him, as a result I do, and my life is a natural outflow of desiring to please Him in all I do. Of course, there is always the struggle to do the wrong thing, and even Christians are not perfect. We will not be until we get to heaven… Anyways, only God knows your heart. He or she who believes in Jesus as the Savior of his or her life, that is the person that will be saved. “Good atheist” or not – He or she cannot be saved by being “good”. It is only through Christ!
Well assuming that there is a god I’d say a good atheist. But I don’t really believe in a diety but I’m not agnostic. Although common sense screams good atheist simply because good deeds were done. Who’s to say that the only salvation is believing in some dude that was born years ago? To me, Jesus is just any other dude and god doesn’t exist.
oh my God….. did you ask the question just to bring them all out?
a bad christian. the good ones might be faking.
A bad Christian, because the Christian (assuming we’re defining “Christian” as a person who believes Jesus died and rose again to save people from their sins) embraces God’s existance and his or her need of a Savior. A good atheist (assuming we’re defining “atheist” as a person who denies the existance of God) wouldn’t get in because he or she doesn’t believe God exists and probably wouldn’t believe themselves guilty of sin and thereby would have rejected Jesus as Savior.
I was looking over some of the other comments people made to this question, and I find myself wondering, “How are they defining good and bad? Is the Christian in the original question being called bad because he or she is guilty of a particular sin? If so, then which sin? Are we assuming the good atheist in the original question lived a life free of sin WITHOUT believing that God exists? Or is the good atheist in the original question simply not guilty of the particular sin the bad Christian in the original question is guilty of?”
I think that, 1: good deeds alone don’t get you into heaven; 2: most atheists do believe in at least a higher power. I think this is a question someone should ask a clergyman (or woman).
Anyone who believes that Jesus died for them and has asked Him to save them will go to heaven. Comparing one person to another and saying that one should go because of their good deeds or otherwise impressive earthly behavior isn’t gonna get you anywhere. Sure, some people are nicer than others, but everyone is “bad” (does stuff wrong). We all deserve hell, the only thing that determines who doesn’t go is salvation through Jesus Christ.
Analogy is good sometimes, but it gets us in trouble. We’re humans. If we knew everything we’d be God. We’re not. Thank God.
I think that God will decide who will enter into paradise with Him, and the criteria for such judgement goes well beyond behavior and religious beliefs. Still, I’m sure that there are plenty of atheist who are in Heaven, and plenty of Christians who are in Hell. I think the best thing for anyone to do, firstly, is to trust and hope and then to live their life in a way that reflects those things. If you live in a way that reflects your great hope and trust that God will accept you into Heaven, you inevitably (I feel) live in a way that is good and pleasing to Him.
from Ancient_Scribe
Support what he/she said.
As kboy25 said, The only way to salvation is through Christ.
But that does not mean only “Christians” we recognize on Earth can have salvation.
The main question He would ask is in the Bible:
What did you do to Him?
(the question is interpretated in this sence: Whenever you feed the hunger, help the one who is the smallest, love everybody… you are doing these good things to Him.)
Therefore, there is a term “annonymous Christians”, Whenever one do good to others wholeheartedly and tries hard to improve one’s moral, learn how to forgive and be humble to accept and see the beauty of everything, even pain and suffereings, “and understand there is only one God but no other Idols, and try hard to search for him with good means”(Please carefully interpret this line in paranthesis), he or she has the will to “baptism”, and they would be the true Christians. Under this maxim, I believe buddist followers, Muslums, or even atheist could be Christians.
Well that question rest on your idea of what is good and bad. It evokes a moral truth. Jesus said there are none good but the father. SInce it rests on your definition of good it can only be speculated on your own perspective on God’s justice.
You know, kind of like those who believe that if you are just ”good enough (evoking a subjective moral truth)” God will send you to heaven. Unfortunatly, the word of God states differently.
Christianity is not just a religion. There are bad people who go to church and act as a complete different people outside of church. What makes people go to heaven is their relationship with God. If people believe in the spirit, they will follow the spirit (what the bible says, the commandments, etc). There is a difference in living WITH Christ and living IN Christ. Unfortunately, if people just take “Christianity” as a religion and nothing else, it makes them no difference than others who are not “good.”
I am a Christian but unfortunately, I don’t believe in heaven even when I have full faith in God and attend church twice a week.
WE’RE ALL BAD CHRISTIANS, SO US OF COURSE.
a bad Christian who believes that Christ is their savior. Atheists don’t so they dont get into heaven b/c they dont believe there’s a heaven or God anyway.
Posted 3/29/2007 4:33 PM by WiLD4SURFiNG
That’s a good point… I am not totally sure about all of my beliefs… I am not quite sure, honestly.
This is something I can’t truly even begin to comprehend.
How can there be separate heavens for everybody?
How can there be fifteen different versions of God existing at the same time?
I agree that you can’t all be correct about your beliefs. It’s impossible since so many ideals are contradictory.
I suppose the truth of the matter is that it’s all in the luck of the draw.
Either you choose the one that’s actually real, or you don’t.
It’s a hit-or-miss situation and you won’t know if you’ve made the right choice until it’s already too late to change your mind.
actually, neither. He wouldn’t allow the good atheist in because there is no relationship with Jesus. However, as Revelations 3:16 (But since you are lukewarm water, I will spit you out of my mouth!) shows, He would rather us be 100% against Him than to claim His name and not live for Him.
Since the “bad” Christian accepted Christ at one point then God will accept them.
I agree with powXxbangbang