June 17, 2007
-
Culture and Academic Performance
I received this message from junshien
“Black researcher spent 9 months studying why black students in an affluent community were far under performing academically compared with their white counterparts. He found out that although racism, socioeconomics, and school funding played a small role, the main cause of the problem was the attitudes of the black students and their parents. The average black student “put little effort into schoolwork and was part of a peer culture that looked down on academic success as acting white.” In addition, he also observed that the black parents in that community felt that since they have already paid higher taxes, “they believe the school system should take care of the rest. They didn’t supervise their children that much. They didn’t make sure their children did their homework. That’s not how other ethnic groups think.”
As a result of his findings, he was thoroughly criticized by the school district, black parents, and other researchers. Here is the link: Link
Do your readers think it’s possible that cultural attitudes can play a big role in academic performance?
Comments (105)
It’s to every man to succeed or fail. To each is the responsability.
If a black kid fails, it’s because he failed and no other reason.
Same with any race
I win
You can’t attribute those “values” to all black families. I don’t even know that I would say most. I guess I need to see his research and the critics findings before I can say anything, but it sounds like a load of crap to me.
Makes sense to me…
It makes sense, but are we allowed to say it without being labeled a racist? =O
A visit from The Theologian! I’m honoured.
Yeah, definately. And I’ve seen it in the black community myself. It’s not ’cause they’re black- I’ve seen whites and Asians and Hispanics act the same way- in fact I don’t quite know why it’s such a thing with them, but it is there.
Its the attitudes definitely, poor schools can do equally as well as rich schools. It can also be the teachers attitudes though…
If you have bad parenting, it’s going to affect the student no matter what race he/she is.
So if black families really do have that kind of cultural outlook, then yes, I’d say so.
not saying that it’s true or not,
but we shouldn’t blow off a research just because some people find it offensive.
Definitely depends on the individual.. Culture could possibly play a part, but should not be the reason.
If we observe that American black students, tend to fail but we say its not their fault, what are we really saying? That they are so weak that the same racism that does not hold back Asian holds them back? Or maybe that they are to stupid to achieve anything? And the fact that African immigrants to the USA, do much better than native African Americans, completely belies the claim of racism being the main problem. Or of the inherited lack of intelligence that I have seen claimed, by by some racial separatists.
No the only none racist reason, must be that there is a culture disrespect for education in the African American community.
After reading his stuff… it sounds like he knows what he is talking about. It is just odd to me, because I’m a minority and I have generally outperformed my other peers in school settings. I just visited a school where the students were all black or hispanic, and the class I witnessed was just smarter than any other class I had ever been in during grade school. Perhaps they were able to perform because performing well wasn’t seen as acting white (since there were no white people in the school).
I was often mocked for acting “too white” when I was younger for the clothes I wore and the way I spoke. Perhaps the fact that I didn’t know any other black people as a child kept me out of this horrible self defeating culture that seems to exist.
I still think it is extreme to say that this self defeatist attitude is a black cultural trait…
RYC
I agree. Be back later to comment more.
Roscigno also believes Ogbu’s research methods are flawed because he failed to do any comparative research on white families in Shaker Heights, substantially weakening his premise. “He’s drawing very big conclusions about black students and black families in a case where he doesn’t do much comparison,” Roscigno says. “We don’t know if white students would say anything different.”
Hmmm….
Ask them!
Mostly yes. Some people understand otherwise, so they will make their kid do well. Or maybe the child recognizes that its important. Culture plays a smaller part than he may believe, but it depends on the parents. I noticed when parents cared more, kids did better, so its the parents fault.
I’m not sure. I think I’ll have to ponder this some more.
First of all, he concedes there are historic socioeconomic explanations to account for some black academic disengagement. Historically, there has been a weak link between academic success and upward mobility for African Americans. Blacks traditionally saw big leaps in social mobility only during times of national crisis such as war — or during shortages of immigrant labor. “If those are the points where they move, it’s not a kind of experience that allows a group to plan their educational future,” Ogbu says.
Even more interesting… I guess I just feel that the way you presented this was oversimplistic, especially after reading more of the article. There is a lot of valid criticism of his work, but he brings up a lot of good points as well. Sounds to me like they need some additional studies. I’d be interested in comparing the white kids that succeed, the black kids that succeed, the white kids that fail and the black kids that fail in this school system.
Okay, I’m back. I believe that cultural attitudes do play a big role in academic performances because I am from a race of people who wholeheartedly believe in education. Just read up on Chinese history – you HAVE to pass a major examination to work in the government in the olden days. Chinese people (and most probably all Asians) place a lot of emphasis on intelligence and good grades. And that’s why a lot of Chinese (and other Asians) are doing well academically.
It’s proven.
Possible and probable.
Cultural learning styles play a big role as well. Was the researcher aware of how most black students learn best? Did he take that into consideration? Was that being taken into consideration by the teachers of these students? This is one of the subjects we hit pretty hard in my education classes in college. Different culture = different *chief* learning style. It is pretty neat stuff.
It could.
I am not sure what I think on this issue. I watched an episode of the boondocks that had Martin Luther King Jr. coming back from the dead in todays society and showed how he would be very displeased with SOME of the black community (the r&b/ gangsta rap culture ect.). I am not really qualified to speak on this subject but the episode made me think alot.
yes. I think it can…
Yes. Cultural attitudes like that do exist, it’s just that not everyone gos along with them.
Someone commented on the article with this… I thought it was a good comment. I’m really going to stop commenting on this damn post… really I am…
3. The very notion of there being a “white culture” sounds absurd, because there’s no single thing or single set of things that white people do exclusively. Same goes for “black culture.” While it may be convenient for racists to assume that there is a “black culture” that somehow all black people are a part of, it’s just not the case.
Now that that’s out of the way, we can get to the scientific rationality part of this. It is totally and completely irresponsible (not to mention unscientific) to just study and interview JUST black people. Without control groups, and study of families of other races living in Shaker Heights, we can’t draw any conclusions. The fact that only black families were examined, and then conclusions were drawn shows that this is inescapably racist. Pretend white students in a black area were performing poorly on tests. Would anyone only study the white kids and then tell you that the problem lay with the “culture” that they lived in? Would anyone buy that?
Yes, I do think it can play a big part.
Also, I think that anti-racism groups and things of the like need to stop trying to keep others from saying ‘their word’ and stop trying to get special rights and start looking at what you could do make your culture better.
Someone stated before that even the music is degrading toward blacks. With rappers cussing, talking about drugs and ho’s, trying to hook up with girl’s at da’ clubbbbbb, I think it’s EASY to see problems with that.
I actually heard a rapper say:
People be askin me all the time,
“Yo Mos, what’s gettin ready to happen with Hip-Hop?”
(Where do you think Hip-Hop is goin?)
I tell em, “You know what’s gonna happen with Hip-Hop?
Whatever’s happening with us”
If we smoked out, Hip-Hop is gonna be smoked out
If we doin’ alright, Hip-Hop is gonna be doin’ alright
when they start to understand that, they are valuable
And they not valuable because they got a whole lot of money
or cause somebody, think they sexy
but they valuable caause they been created by God
And God, makes you valuable
And whether or not you, recognize that value is one thing
You got a lot of sociaties and governments
tryin’ to be God, wishin’ that they were God
Their attitudes affect plenty of things.
Although it may not apply to EVERYONE, I do believe that cultural differences definitely affect our view on academics.
My family is Puerto Rican, and although I have heard a lot of put-downs towards Puerto Ricans in the field of achievements, I don’t relate to them (the put-downs) at all. I say this, because college and good grades have always been a mandatory things in our family. It is a priority, and we don’t compromise college. It never crossed my mind not to go.
My boyfriend, on the other hand, is caucasian, but from a working class family. In his family culture, college is cool, but not mandatory. I was so shocked when I first heard this.
So…the differences do directly affect us…but then again it may have to do equally with socio-economic backgrounds as it does with cultural ones.
Yes. It’s not a popular opinion, or a very “pc” one that definitely plays a huge role. Among blacks and hispanics, school is not seen as a positive. If you’re successful in school, you’re “acting white” and not being “true to your roots” or something. It seems like the only legitimate ways for a black kid to excel are through sports, something that’s so incredibly difficult to do. I find this so sad, as it causes so many kids to not care, and so fail, and get stuck in bad situations.
In school so often it’s “not cool” to be the smart kid, to make straight A’s. Those kids are labeled as nerds. It’s sad, b/c it encourages failure, and though that itself won’t ruin your life, it certainly handicaps you.
On the flip side, you have the asian community, which faces many of the same problems as far as cultural differences when talking about testing, etc, yet b/c of their drive to excel in school and their priorities, they often do extremely well, even better than us “white kids.”
Attitude makes such a difference.
Well, I guess that he was only looking at the “average black student.” Even though we want to believe that race has nothing to do with it… sadly, it does but not entirely. But in recent years, ALL races have students that are slacking off. And not just lack of parent motivation, but other things too. For anyone young, to do reaallly good in school and to show effort, you’re either called “square,” or “loser” and a series of other names. But in MY family, if you get anything lower than a “C+” you’re screwed. And that’s just my family. And it’s never crossed my mind not to go to college and further my education.
I guess it depends on the person, your upbringing, the amount of motivation you have. Because at some school districts the standards are really high. So it depends on what their definition of “flunking” is.
It’s just kind of pathetic that the black community doesn’t want to hear the truth.
Those kids brought this on themselves. If they think that it’s “uncool” to get an education and get out of the “hood” that’s their problem. And I honestly dont care if they’re shunned from the black community or not. I know that 90 percent of them can do better.
I don’t know what my readers, think, but I do know what I think. I think in areas where Blacks and Hispanics are the majority, there are a lot more obstacles and distractions that detract from learning. Plus, there is usually overcrowding and no available tutoring. The pressure to learn is on the individual as he (or she) will more than likely not get any special attention from anyone. Contrast this to a private school or an average size suburban high school. Of course there will be noticeable differences.
It plays a huge role!
being white, ive heard that so many times it isn’t even funny. of course there are exceptions, when aren’t there; but he’s got down some very true things
Peer pressure is a big influence on anyone’s attitude toward any subject. People attribute asian’s study habits and success toward cultural influences (Disclaimer: I know I am generalizing, but there is research behind this statement. I know that not 100% of asians fall into this catigory. Please don’t jump on me for generalizing) While this study shows a negative side to cultural influences, I do not doubt that it is a major contributing factor to the poor academic results.
Attitude is everything. And it starts with parenting. If one’s parents have the attitude that being smart and working for it academically is ‘acting white’ then the kids will foster that attitude as well. This is not solely a black and white situation either. It will be seen in other cultures in the U.S. as well. It just happens to be more obvious in this case, because there are so few of the other ‘minorities’ in the geographic area that was studied.
yeah, i think a culture plays a big part. both of my parents are from Africa, where grades and education are really important, and they’ve embedded that into me.
Not only do I think it’s possible, I think its very likely.
Most times, it’s easier to do what is expected of you than what you yourself would choose.
When you think of how a young white male might be made fun of for trying to be “black”, you can imagine easily how a young black male wouldn’t want to be seen as “white.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if being Smart was seen as Cool?
“Smart”
obviously…
like the stereotype asian overachiever…and the middle-easterns being either doctors or technical support for dell.
i think american’s in general don’t give a shit. it’s really sad.
if you don’t have support in what you do you might not do it well. especially if it is something hard like academics. i do realize that some people are gifted with a brain that can recall things easily. i’m not talking aobut those types i am talking about the rest of us that have to struggle with learning.
Seeing as most attribute the success of Asians to their upbringing, I’d say yes.
Based solely on what I just read, you can’t fault the man for his findings. If he performed his study, and that is what he found, he is obligated to publish it. If he was unbiased, how can you label his results as wrong or even racist?
I went to a school that was predominantely white. I did well in school. I, along with other boys who did well, was labeled as somewhat of a geek. The “cool” kids often didn’t perform well. Interestingly enough, those same kids often came from broken homes. I remember wondering why all these other kids’ parents got divorces, while mine stayed together.
Encouragement from parents to succeed academically is important. I’m sure that too much “encouragement” can ruin a kid’s motivation, but a kid has to want to do well if he is to succeed. End of story.
He pretty much hit the nail on the head.
It’s sad, but I believe it.
I think there may be a stronger link to the feeling of newly sucessful families that they deserve priority treatment. Others should be serving their needs. As a scout leader near a very wealthy California community in the ’90s, the attitude of about half the families was, “Come on now, make my son a good Scout”. Our requirement that the parents take part was ignored more frequently by that group.
Definitley.
Absolutely. I’ve seen this time and time again, but I can’t really say anything about it because I’m white and that would make me “racist”.
Stereotyping people is dangerous. I know in my seminary many top students are blacks of course I also know many irresponsible persons are blacks. But like many of the comments above say, it’s the same with all race.
absolutely, i still remember it like it was yesterday: remember every friday in elementary was the spelling test. my dad would quiz me every thursday night to make sure i got every word correctly written. if not, he’d continue testing me throughout the night UNTIL i could spell every word right!
yeah i definately think it does
I think it has some affect on the educational performance of some people. I know a lot of intelligent black children who, because they try hard to accomplish something and make a future for themselves are accused of”acting white” by other black students and some adults. I actually saw something”media” related about this too, which may act sublimanally on someone. There was a toy ironing board and vacuumecleaner set with the picture of a little black girl using the tools. Why not a boy? why not several pictures of children of different genders/sexes? I don’t know if the person that designed the box did it on purpose or it just happened that way.
YES IT DOES
take any class in psychoogy or sociology and it is plain that some cultures react differently. I would say the fiding are true and i ahve heard then countless times from other books and sources. If they are so mad then maybe they should do something about it instead of getting onto this man who just wrote down what he observed. Also, people must remember that these findings are always general and suualyl followed by statistics, and none are 100% usually.
Daniel (doubledb)
Yes. Seriously. I believe it. I went to a high school in the middle of nowhere. It was very much a farm school where people got married early, quit school to work on the farms, and were not attending during harvest time. They did not value education as much as the rest of the more business oriented parents, so those students whose parents were raised to see academics under work preformed at a lower standard. It wasnt anything we hid from, it was just well-known fact.
A parent’s influence means the world on children and academics. Without encouragement, support, or even just justificiation, children do not feel that getting past a certain level is necessary.
Yes. This happens at my school. Most (not all) of the black kids at my school associate getting good grades with ‘acting white’, and you can’t ‘act white’ because everyone looks down on it, so they don’t get good grades. And I don’t think racism really is a factor, at least at my school. If a white person even identifies someone as black, they get all “Ooo, bitch you so racist.” and then you might get jumped after school. But no one does anything about it, because, again, that would be considered racist.
I mean, its not like all kids do this. I have black friends who do care and get good grades.
Why do we label it racist?
If one fails, one fails. It’s no one’s fault but your own.
I’ve met some rather bright kids who just don’t try.
I’m one of them. But I’m not black.
Label?
Absolutely.
Obviously. It’s the exact opposite for a lot of Asian cultures, with parents putting huge amounts of pressure on their children to be good students. I’m sure other cultures have other views on academics, etc. Cultural differences influence everything we do, it’s a huge part of what makes people who they are…
his job is to report what he observed in his study, not report what people want to hear. society tries to blame everything on discrimination, when sometimes it’s not descrimination, but how it really is or fair.
Lefooo hit the nail right on the head. Well said, man.
Of course they could.
I can kind of relate to that…when I was in high school, a lot of the black students I knew told me I acted “white” because of the way I spoke and the fact that I got good grades.
hell yes. you see it in rap all the time. the ghetto folks don’t need to study or work hard or bust their asses or anything, yet they still end up rich and owning clubs and banging hos. sorry, but drug dealing only gets you to your mother’s front door.
okay, while that’s somewhat off-topic, the “culture” does seem to promote the idea that doing nothing and being a lazy ass will get you someplace. i’m asian, and i grew up in a family that taught me that only studying hard will get you places. they didn’t care that studying hard made me look “white.” so perhaps parental upbringing has to do with it too. parents can give their kids pressure just as much as peers.
and there’s also the fact that blacks don’t need to work as hard as asians or whites to get into a name-brand school because those schools are pressured to “diversify.” when i heard this, i was like “WTF?!” it’s amazing how the school tries to make things easier on the blacks, yet they don’t take the offer simply because doing so would make them “whitewashed.”
Thats possible. very possible.
Yes. Go read Blink by Malcom Gladwell. I believe he talks about this issue.
That seems entirely accurate to me. It’s so true but no one wants to say it because of sounding racist. My best friend is black but she was raised by her Greek mother so her attitude towards academics is very determined and driven. My other black friends who grew up without that motivation don’t give a damn. Same goes for a lot of the white kids and mexicans who grew up in a blue-collar “don’t know don’t care” atmosphere.
YES. It’s especially apparent in Asian culture, where parents pressure their kids to do well in school. Honestly, though, sometimes the process these kids have to go through to do well academically makes me wonder why doing academically is such a “great” thing anyway.
Why not a boy?
Because boys would not be interested in the toy. The differences between the interest of boys and girls has been proven to start at birth. It mostly innate and not cultural. Unlike black kids and edcation were it is cultural and not innate.
YES!!!!!
I just realized all of this recently. It applies to my own schooling. When I was being the good student, people made fun of me. I was the “teacher’s pet”, “wanna be white/asian”…I was even accused of hating black people because I preferred to hang out with people who attended school daily (most of them were Asian).
When I started to slip up, I had nearly no support from my family who told me clothes were more important than school lunch or school trips. They called me stupid and encouraged me to drop out. I was bullied in school and I stopped going. Nobody protested. In fact, I was told to do housework during the day.
Enough about meh. I do notice that a lot of my black friends have a whatever-ish attitude towards school. A lot of them believe that there are other things more important than school. I try to tell them otherwise but who am I?
Not to say that these are the only reasons why black people don’t perform as well as other races in school but I think these are the biggest causes. I also think the media and low self-esteem contributes as well.
Sorry for the mini life story. o.o
Of course culture plays a role, but most importantly, the family plays a role. The family can elect to not follow popular culture, and the family can elect to support and encourage their children’s education. We have many family friends who are black, and they do not “go with the flow” of the mainstream black culture. They appreciate their children’s inherent worth, they look for the best schools, work with their children’s teachers, and totally support their child’s schoolwork, lifestyle, church education, and the like. They are not out there bitching and moaning about racism or blaming others for their lives – they are making their lives, and their childrens’ lives, the best they can be, by their own values and hard work, not expecting everyone else to hand it to them. It’s not only a racial thing or a cultural thing – it’s a family choice to behave in certain ways.
i dont know. im skeptical. i mean, if i understand what is being said, and if it is to be taken seriously, it is saying that the african americans in this particular district are doing poorly in school because they are racist. unless i am reading it wrong, what he determined is that these children would rather throw away their accademic carreers,(and quite possibly carreers in general) than to be “like white people”. but that cant be right, his observations and interviews must be wrong, i mean, we all know only white people can be racist.
I’m not sure about my readers, but I’m convinced it has a large effect on academic performance.
It’s funny how someone can get ostracized for saying something that’s not popular even if there may be truth to it.
Could this be the hypothesis for taking on what could be a culture of victimization and entitlements?
I think the duke rape case was valid, but I think affirmative action is not.
Those two things are unrelated to this post, yet, in a way they are not. Genetics has nothing to do with it, but culture certainly does.
As long as you are told you are the victim and deserving of a cookie you will eschew hard work in lieu of your handout.
I speak from experience.
I remember a kerfluffle about this a few years back…it didn’t have to do with affluent communities per se, but in the black students themselves picking on scholarly black kids for acting “white.” Oh well.
i think it plays into that…not the main reason, probably–different aspects. but i think it definitly could cause that.
i think cultural attitudes definitely do play a role, but i don’t think the above is an INHERENT cultural attitude of African-Americans…
If some African-American parents really do have the attitude that the researcher describes, then yes, I think that would affect their students’ performance. But keep in mind that these same parents were probably once raised where racism, socioeconomics, and school funding definitely had a huge impact, and it’s only natural that this would affect the parents’ values…
It’s an American problem, not a ”black” problem.
I think it depends on what kind of culture you choose to identify with, and what that culture values.
stop citing asian americans as the model minority. geez. for the past generation (until china recently opened up), the typical chinese family in the suburbs were immigrant graduate students or professionals from taiwan; and their children. these people struggled to attain academic excellence in their native country, and then took it a step further to excel again in a foreign country. when all these science and engineering ph.d students got married and had kids, is it any wonder that those kids excelled academically?
now think on the flipside about different minority groups who come here (or were forced here centuries back) and the typical background of those groups. that line of thinking can get a bit dangerous (non-pc, at least). just ask lawrence summers, the former president of harvard.
Yes.
i think it does play a part. but they are also in american society now so that should also play a factor.
I am white. I did not learn to read till my late 20′s. Math is a hugh challange. Soon will be moving to Canada and am expected to learn some French language. So what I think is that if you want to achieve something you should at very least try your best in anything you endeavor to do. Otherwise, what is the point? If the research is true then you have to have a bit of empathy for those with so little self-esteem that they would rather do poorly then live up to their potential.
this shit is retarded..
and i’m sick of the black community being the scapegoat for it..
yes, the black community has affluent parents who aren’t doing their jobs..
who aren’t raising up their children the way they should…
but the same EXACT thing happens in white households!
it happens in any other race..
in fact, the white kids at my school were the most criminally active, drunken, drug using, embarrassments to their family..
and these were supposedly “affluent” folks..
this lax attitude towards school is universal..
but as always, the black community/minority community gets the blame..
gotta love america..
yes, of course they do to some extent – but you can’t put everybody inside a box like that.
That’s quite interesting actually.
no shit
Sure, don’t Asian students typically do better than the average because of their cultural values? It can work both ways.
I think that if he wanted the paper to be validated, he needed to make sure his grades didn’t suffer. If they did, it WOULD be his own damn fault. *sigh* why can’t everyone just take responsibility for their own crap instead of blaming everything on everyone else?
yes…unless, as everyone knows, asians are just smerter…smorter….smarter…
it couldn’t actually be that they work very hard and have the expectations of their parents and their societal norms pushed upon them……nah….
I know it does. We lived in Hawaii for several years and, at least at that time, the same was true of the Hawaiian children. I think the ones who had enough actual Hawaiian ancestry that they could get into Kamehameha School were more willing to embrace education than the ones in the public schools.
cultural attitudes, yes. racial attitudes, no. because racial attitudes vary from area to area. in this case maybe its true. i live in inner city cleveland and it doesnt surprise me. but that suburb has already dramatically changed from when he did that original survey. i think it would be hard to pinpoint. but for the suburbs reaction? thats crap. they need to prepared for an answer like this if they decided to bring in someone in the first place.
Interesting that this was an “affulent community.” Money doesn’t necessarily mean success. It’s hard to argue with the researcher’s logic; sad if true. I think we saw a similar situation in New Orleans–second and third generation welfare recepients that didn’t feel it was their responsibility to help themselves or each other.
Absolutely! Education is determined by attitude.
Yes. Its been long understood that Asian and Jewish communities are the same, just at the different end of the achievement spectrum.
Of course. Attitude plays a part in everyones success, cultural or otherwise. What surprises me is that the Black culture hasn’t adopted a “Let’s show them and beat them at their own game” attitude if they see acting and living differently as the way to win in life. Citing the reference to the black denial of Plato and hypotenuses having anything to do with Black culture make me wonder what an ideal education for an American black child from preschool to college would exactly be…from their perspective.
It’s hard to argue with fact that they don’t want to act “white” and that acting white = success. I don’t have the answer as to how they should hold on to the positive aspects of their culture but this certain angle most definetely is holding back a lot of black kids…and that IS their fault and no one else.
Oh yes, most definitely.
I think so. Why else do the Asian schoolchildren outperform the American schoolchildren? If the American society/culture stressed schoolwork as much as the Asian s/c did, our curriculum would be much harder, our school-intelligence much higher, and the quality of our schools&etc. much better.
“That’s not how other ethnic groups think.”
Hold your horses there, Tanto. I neither agree nor entirely disagree with the researcher’s findings. As a neophyte researcher myself, the first thing I want to know is how he conducted his research. (After I write this, I’ll take a gander at it.) Because the assertion that the parents believe that their taxes will take care of it is: 1) not something that could be produced objectively…probably, and 2) not a racial/culturally exclusive occurrence. I’ll be the first to admit that there is a cultural stigma against black MALES (specifically, and females generally) to stay under-educated because it is acting white. However, for the general American society it is acting nerdy.
For example, when I was in eighth grade, there were a grand total of zero black male graduates at my local high school. I come from a small town anyway, so there wouldn’t have been that many graduates period. But for that specifically to come to my attention is a bit overwhelming. When something like that happens, it becomes a shared failure between the parents and the school system. But I digress.
It appears to me to be a black conservative’s indictment of groupthink phenomena. Which in no way invalidates the results of the research, except that when it comes to research such as this (especially if he used a series of interviews) if you ask the right questions, you’ll get the answers that you’re looking for. I honestly believe that a large proportion of the problem is merely immaturity and high school groupthink.
And most importantly, I can’t imagine how the researcher came to the hefty conclusion that attitudes towards education are THE Answer. His conclusions seem like a flying leap in logic. Despite what most people believe, research is rarely Objective.
I’m just sayin’ don’t get on the bandwagon everybody. I slacked off in high school, not because I didn’t want to act white, but because I was a dumb teenager like everyone else around me at the time.
After reading the entire article…I have to say, yup! He’s probably right. I do believe that a lot of it is high school immaturity, but it is the responsibility of the parents–not the school–to nip that in the bud. After thinking about it, I see that phenomenon all over the place. There is a strong social undercurrent that inflates the victim status of black people in America.
Don’t at all think that I’m disregarding the role of the schools. School books lie. Education is assimilation. And most of those black kids probably know that. So of course they aren’t going to work that hard. Of course they find themselves assuming that the education that they’re getting there is essentially “white” and schools do typically expect some level of cultural loss in order to succeed.
Too many teachers give up.
Too many administrators don’t care.
There is almost always a racist undercurrent that parallels the “act white” cultural undercurrent. And all of that is systematic.
I think that Ogbu (the researcher) was in too deep with that research. You can’t do a proper ethnography in 9 weeks and explore only one ethnic group. So, I conclude that his work is not incorrect, but incomplete. IF he wasn’t publishing, he may have been invited to come back. And I don’t think that he could do it alone. There’s other stuff involved. But I think that the voluntary immigrant stuff is probably the most accurate. Just my opinion.
Yes
Hell yes. People are most often swayed by the idea of being socially accepted than anything else. If a person thinks that doing a certain thing will end up causing them social rejection, they are SO much more likely not to do it. Especially youth, because young people rely so much on their social groups for support.
The average black student “put little effort into schoolwork and was part of a peer culture that looked down on academic success as acting white.”
That is a copout. There is no reason why one should hinder themselves from getting ahead in life. You shouldn’t be out on the streets and mess up your life just because it is socially acceptable within your ethnicity. It is up to you if you really want something, to take the initiative to better yourself and not let what others think affect you. In the end, you have to depend on yourself and not others for what you want out of life.
Yeah, their parents didn’t supervise them much or teach them to care about their work. That sounds like the white majority in my town.
I think it’s just culturally handicapped people.
It’s a problem that surpasses race issues.
I grew up in a family where we were taught to be hardworking, and by some nasty twist of fate stuck in a town of people who were never taught another way, if much of a way at all.
HUGE! HUGE! HUGE!