June 22, 2007
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Premarital Sex and Love
I was reading an article by a professor of a college about students learning about contraception and premarital sex. (I found this link at Xx_Collared_xX)
In the article, the professor raises the concern that contraception causes an increase in infidelity. His concern was it leads to divorce too. It teaches people to approach their partner with a mentality of “I’ll be faithful if you please me.” So they are participating in sex with no long term plan.
He considers this type of sex as narcissistic and therefore “unloving.” I want to focus on this particular thought that he raises:
“Premarital sex does not enhance a loving relationship — it, instead, develops the divorce mentality. The partners say to each other, “I’ll be faithful if you please me.” They have not pledged their lives in as sacred and social a manner as possible, and have not yet closed the doors to another sex partner.” Here is the link: Link
When I was in high school, I was active in my youth group. We were told that premarital sex was selfish. If we engaged in premarital sex, we were telling our partner that we at some level were focused on the physical. We were allowing the sex to become the focus instead of showing self-control and waiting until marriage.
Essentially the message was being communicated that the highest form of love was to abstain from sex before marriage.
Is premarital sex selfish?
Comments (183)
Of course!
As my dad always said…”you have to make sure all the parts work before you buy the product.”……………..LOL………have a great day.
Christianity teaches that, Dan.
yes, i think so.
i believe so..
if only for the reason that i don’t want to be thinking of a million other women when i marry (if i marry)
yes
For that couple in the news that fell of the roof of an office building, it’s more than selfish. It was deadly.
maybe Jessica alba should read this
oh, for fuck’s sake.
Very selfish. But so is masturbation.
Nope, it’s fun as hell if you’re doing it with the person you plan to marry!!
That’s all a bunch of overly simplistic bullcrap. You can be committed to each other outside of a marriage, and many people are– more so than many other couples are when they ARE married.
Sex is a way of expressing your feelings and love for each other. No, it is not always this way– casual sex is obviously not about building a relationship. But premarital sex in the context of a committed, monogamous relationship very much can be. It is as precious as sex after marriage. It can help build the relationship, and help the 2 people trust in each other even more so than they did before.
(And lets’ not even get into the fact that, often, in cultures where premarital sex is so looked down upon or forbidden, it is the women who are always punished for committing that “crime” and then men very rarely so.)
no, it’s not. if it’s done for the right reasons, it’s about love and commitment. if you’re not a fuckin’ slut, sleeping around with whoever looks your way, it’s just as much a commitment to the person you love as saying “i love you, marry me” is. for the right reasons, it’s physical manifestation of love and commitment.
there’s nothing narcissistic about sex before marriage. if anything, marriage is such an arbitrary time to decide to have sex.
christopher and i have been together three years now. and won’t be done with school, or in a position to marry, for at least another four or five years. the fact that we had sex before marriage doesnt make us any less likely to get married and STAY married; if anything, we had sex for the RIGHT reasons, and it makes us MORE likely to stay together, despite whatever hardships we face.
no… i wrote out a response then realized it would end up being an essay. i’m just going to stick with “no”
My relationship with my boyfriend isn’t like that at all.
Our relationship is in the physical level. But we keep it more at the emotional level. If it is physical, it isn’t being selfish. We don’t really say “I’ll be faithful if you please me.”
I mean, I do have self control and I don’t go loose.
If you’re in a relationship with someone for just sex, then that’s obviously being selfish.
Yes, for all of the reasons you have stated. I may do a protected entry on this soon (if I have the time and energy of course!).
It depends. If you don’t have the mindset that you’ll leave if you aren’t physically pleased than no. But don’t you ever wonder who else has seen your s/o at their most vulnerable and intimate moments? Don’t you want to be the only he/she shares them with?
pre marital sex isn’t selfish at all. i think it’s necessary.
ryc: lol Dan… i believe him. there was this one girl who danced and she had upside down minu-triangles for breasts >_<
For my two cents, I say it all depends on what’s in the heart of the people involved. Marriage is no guarantee that a person is engaging sexual relations for anything more than selfish reasons. Not being married also does not prevent a person from engaging in sexual relations as a physical expression of love (theological considerations aside…). If a peson is engaging in sexual relations as an expression of love, by which I mean love and not the misguided notion of wanting to please another or the overwhelming sensation and hormone driven need that comes with a physical relationship, then it cannot be selfish. But each of us is imperfect and because we are all imperfect we express our love, physical and othewise, in often flawed and imperfect ways both inside and outside of marriage. As for as the moral, legal or theological implications of this question, those would be another whole set of discussions.
Peace,
Chaz
Wrong question.
The better question is whether sex before marriage is sinful. Clearly it is.
One reason it is sinful is that it elevates the selfish desires for physical pleasure over a spiritual desire to obey God’s clear commands. Its the Garden of Eden choice all over again, and we frequently make the same disastrous choice that Eve and Adam made.
No.
P.S. If you want to talk about selfishness and selflessness, check out The Fountain.
No, as creatures of nature, we have a natural drive to have sex. It’s not selfish to give in to that drive, especially when in adolescence and young adulthood, when the hormones are so imbalanced it could drive a man insane.
The problem is that the author of that article views sex as the ultimate part of a relationship. It’s not. It should only be a minor influence on the relationship (lets face it, if it’s not good, then it hurts a strong relationship).
There’s certainly nothing meaningful about it, so I’d have to agree that it’s superficial and selfish… I may be a little selfish…
One reason it is sinful is that it elevates the selfish desires for physical pleasure over a spiritual desire to obey God’s clear commands. Its the Garden of Eden choice all over again, and we frequently make the same disastrous choice that Eve and Adam made.
seriously, fine, you’re christian. or whatever. but for those of us who aren’t? those are pretty stupid reasons to tell us we’re sinning. what about the people who never get married? who spend lifetimes together but don’t go through the process of getting that piece of paper that states they’re married? or what of the couple who’s been together a decade, but isn’t at the time of their life to be ready for marriage? logically, it makes no sense that marriage be the arbitrary standpoint that makes everything okay.
seems to me, love should be more important than anything else. seems to me that love is never actually all that selfish, despite what the religious types want to say.
There’s certainly nothing meaningful about it, so I’d have to agree that it’s superficial and selfish… I may be a little selfish…
see? that’s the harmful point of view, that says there’s nothing meaningful about sex. but there is. if it’s done for the right reasons, it can mean the world.
Accidental_Paradigm said it well. To say it’s selfish seems to be a sweeping generalization that doesn’t take individual circumstances into account.
oh, and might i point out that while the guy who wrote the article says :
The partners say to each other, “I’ll be faithful if you please me.” They have not pledged their lives in as sacred and social a manner as possible, and have not yet closed the doors to another sex partner.”
‘closing the door’ on another sex partner doesn’t mean you have to get married. in fact, these days, marriage is just a little a guarantee of fidelity as just being in a committed, monogamous dating relationship.
now,
tell us what you really think kestryl.
I think it is. And if you’re having sex with someone you “plan” to marry… why not just get married then?
And if you’re having sex with someone you “plan” to marry… why not just get married then?
because sometimes, getting married before you’re finished with school, before you’re financially stable, and before your life is in order, is stupid.
in fact, these days, marriage is just a little a guarantee of fidelity as just being in a committed, monogamous dating relationship.
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<LI class=itemsubmitter>Kestryl (message)
I think that’s a big problem we face today – that marriage isn’t what it’s supposed to be. Marriage used to be a guarantee of fidelity, a pledge of committment… “till death do us part.” People just don’t want to do that anymore, and thus, some people, like Kestryl here, see marriage as being meaningless (and rightfully so). I think there is too much of a “me first” attititude in any relationship, including marriage. So even in marriage, people still have the “I’ll be faithful if you please me” attitude. I think that might be a portion of the root of the problem.
oops. sorry bout the HTML.
I think that’s a big problem we face today – that marriage isn’t what it’s supposed to be. Marriage used to be a guarantee of fidelity, a pledge of committment… “till death do us part.” People just don’t want to do that anymore, and thus, some people, like Kestryl here, see marriage as being meaningless (and rightfully so). I think there is too much of a “me first” attititude in any relationship, including marriage. So even in marriage, people still have the “I’ll be faithful if you please me” attitude. I think that might be a portion of the root of the problem.
I never claimed marriage was meaningless. instead, i claimed that, more important than a piece of paper, is what’s in your heart. is marriage important without true love and commitment? no, not at all. it’s just an empty commitment, then. what’s important is how you feel, and your actions. i dont need a ring to know that christopher and i plan ‘til death to us part‘. we’ll get married when we’re ready, but until then, i have no doubts about our commitment to one another. and that is more important than a marriage certificate.
I know everyone here thinks that Christian ideas only apply to Christians because they’re only good for Christians. Actually, with most Christian teachings they’re helping live better. One of the other reasons pre-marital sex was discouraged, for example, was because if a woman becomes pregnant without a husband life can be very difficult for her.
Anyway, I don’t know about selfish, but when it’s stuff like one night stands or relationships that last a couple of weeks then it takes the love out of sex. It lowers it to the level of defecation or something. And I know, again, that people will say that it’s just natural, like defacating, to want to do frequently. However, I’m one of those idiotic idealists who thinks that sex and love are, and should be, close. If you don’t love the person, then you’re degrading yourself. If you have no commitment to them (I believe that loyalty is a part of love) and vice versa then why bother.
Ugh… nevermind. There is no point in trying to convince anybody. They’ll just call you a fool because you have your opinion and your opinion happens to be the one that the worlds been living under for a while.
If anyone reads this comment and is convinced anything in it then they probably already agree with me.
God, I write like tripe. I hope most people disregard my comment.
“I know everyone here thinks that Christian ideas only apply to Christians because they’re only good for Christians. Actually, with most Christian teachings they’re helping live better.”
It’s not so much the idea that it’s Christian that I dislike, but that “No Sex Before Marriage” completely disregards more important things, like LOVE.
No, not at all.
It’s not the first time that happens that two people who didn’t have premarital sex get married and find out that they have nothing in common under the sheets…love DOES NOT conquer all and they could be very much in love with my each other, if they’re not compatible when it comes to sex, one or both of them is going to throw the towel and ask for a divorce, or even worse….become a cheater.
A marriage is for life, you gotta make sure everything works fine ’cause that’s the only way you will stay with that person “until death do us apart”
^^ okay well since quite a lot of people had a religious undertone… i’ll stick with my 17 year old-free spirited-agnostic thoughts:
i dont know if i think premarital sex is selfish. i think though that it is necessary AND unnecessary. the physical aspect of any relationship is important and making love is probably the most.. *ultimate* way two (or more lol) people can express their feelings. but i believe that should a couple partake in premarital sex, they should be in a committed relationship. i think it’s okay for couples that are engaged to have premarital sex.
you know.. i think i AM starting to see premarital sex as selfish now. if a couple doesn’t possess a level of maturity, they will probably get too absorbed with having sex all of the time instead of finding other ways to show their love to each other..
wow i have no idea what im talking about. too early perhaps…
Dear Dan,
I can, of course, only speak from experience, which, since I’m 54 years old, is hopefully vast enough. I never married, and now I’m a bit “dysfunctional”, so if my sex had never been “premarital” then I would have missed out on having sex at all.
I don’t think anyone, no matter how knowledeable, can state with any degree of veracity that having sex or not having sex pervents or discourages long marriages, or stimulates divorce, or anything. People have been having sex since Adam and Eve, and they will continue to do so. Without sex, the race of humans would die out.
If both parties of a sexual union are satisfied and happy about the union, then the sex is not selfish at all.
Michael F. Nyiri, poet, philosopher, fool
Premarital sex is only a sin if you’re a Christian.
A healthy sexual relationship is key for a marriage to work. Period.
If everyone were to follow the Christian’s no sex before marriage rule, it might result in more people marrying younger than they would/should, more people marrying who would not normally marry, and there will be a much higher divorce rate. And for those who simply don’t believe in marriage, they will never get to experience one of life’s greatest pleasures. People who are selfish will be selfish, no matter what rules you impose on them.
as in most cases, it depends on the person.
you know, some people are just doing it to have sex, not caring about other people. that is selfish.
on the other hand, you have people like me that have never entered into a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship without first getting to know the person, and believing that they would make a good life mate. granted, i didn’t choose the best people and it didn’t work out with some of those people, but still. if i was with them, it was because i loved them and wanted to share that with them. my husband was the same way.
and personally, if it hadn’t been for that part of my past (and his as well) i really don’t believe we would have, erm, learned much, and we wouldn’t enjoy each other as much as we do now. it was nice because we could skip a lot of the awkward love making. we knew, for the most part, what we were doing and our sex life was amazing in no time. maybe that’s selfish in a way, but i’m glad we both had the experiences we did because it helped us along our journey to and for each other. does that make sense? anyway, haha.
and you know… a lot of people that waited until marriage expect sex to be this wonderful thing, but it does take time to get the hang off… and i have heard more than a few times of people finding someone on the side to be with since things with their husbands or wives are not pleasing them, or resorting to porn and becoming addicted to that instead of working on their own relationship. it doesn’t matter what religion, race, etc you are. people are always going to screw up or do amazing with some idea or another…
if none of that made sense, i apologize… i kept having to get up to tend to one of my kids or sneeze a bajillion times… have a lovely day!
*Jac*
Sex is one of the most natural act we, as animals, do. We are animals, if any of you forgot that.
I’m just going to say “no” and avoid anything I have to say about religion.
Sex was designed to be a form of intmacy that communicates your love and commintment with your spouse. There is so much involved in the act of sex…emotionally…that it is best to be left in the marriage. Besides with all the STDs and all that out there now…it is the safer thing to do…I was a virgin when I got married and so was my husband. I love that he and I were the only ones to have experienced each other in the intimacy of sex…it is something I treasure. We have no one to compare each other to…we learn the act together. And I know that we did not bring STDs to share…that is not one of our concerns.
This was the way God designed it to be…not as a set of rules…or as “sex is bad”…He created it for us to enjoy…just set it aside for the marriage bed cause He knew the emotions involved….and the dangers of STDs that could be transferred…He set that standard for our proctection…
The choice is yours ultimately…but I for one think that wanting til marriage is the best choice.
I think it is. Sometimes you’re too caught up in whatever it is that you’re feeling. You don’t even consider the effects that it could have longterm… on both yourself and the partner. The more sex you have before marriage, the more casual it is to you until it is so desensitized that it barely means anything to you anymore apart from gratification of the flesh.
The first time is special. And I remember that in a Valentines Day thing my church once hosted a speaker said something that really stuck to me: “There is no greater gift you can give to your husband/wife than all of yourself.” When you have had sex with people, it’s kind of like giving up a part of yourself, so then your future spouse won’t have all of you when you marry.
Taste the milk before you buy the cow.
Pre-Marital sex is a sin. Period. No one talks about it anymore. I can’t talk, because I lost my virginity at 17 on my graduation night. I know I am preaching to the choir, because ‘everyone is doing it.’ It seems like I am calling the kettle black, but I am speaking from experience. It’s not selfish, it’s sin.. the Bible teaches us that it’s a sin to have sex before marraige. The bible says specifically to keep the marraige bed pure.
YES
it can even be selfish on the part of both people in relationship to God (or the future of their relationship), seeing the temporary over the long journey.
Daniel (doubledb)
completely and utterly selfish. if you have sex pre-marriage, you’re showing your significant other that you just want a night of fun from them as opposed to a lifetime together. it’s not love if you’re not willing to wait. premartial sex isn’t a declaration of love; it’s a declaration of the absence of true love.
My preacher knew that my husband and I had sex and even lived together for years before getting married and he had no problem marrying us.
Southern Baptists must be getting softer these days : )
Yes, I would think it has some selfishness to it.
I was taught that all the physical parts will work when the time comes. (And guess what, most people who ‘see if it works’ end up finding out ‘duh… it does’)
That and if ‘Jake’ has given himself in love to ‘sally’ before sleeping with you, then you just slept with both Jake and Sally…. and if Sally had previously slept with Andrew before sleeping with Jake. Then you just slept with Jake, Sally, and Andrew. And if Andrew had quite a few rendevous with a prostitute here and there and a previous girlfriend. Well, you just had relations with a bunch of people by just sleeping with Jake.
=) Personally, that grosses me out.
It’s just safer to wait, wiser to wait, and I don’t feel the need to take the chance of getting pregnant, an STD, or pick up anymore unecessary emotional baggage.
But i’m a prude ;P
completely and utterly selfish. if you have sex pre-marriage, you’re showing your significant other that you just want a night of fun from them as opposed to a lifetime together. it’s not love if you’re not willing to wait. premartial sex isn’t a declaration of love; it’s a declaration of the absence of true love.
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<LI class=itemsubmitter>project_freq91 (message)
Speak for yourself. That is the craziest thing I’ve heard today. The love between my husband and I is true love. And yes, we do want a lifetime together.
why did that happen? sorry
Yes, i would like to put a huge explanation for it, but i won’t waste your time… i think we’re all smart enough to see that it’s true.
Wow, I’ve learned a lot about society by reading these comments. “Love should be more important than anything else…” Hmm… well, so if I fall in love with 10 different guys. It is just fine to have sex with all of them. No, that is selfish. That is putting my sexual desires above the welfare of these 10 guys. Why? What if guy #2 gave you an STD and you didn’t know it? What if guy #3 gave you a baby and then walked away? This isn’t a game!
A lot of these kids don’t understand the bond that is created between a man and woman during sex. To them, sex is love… it is fun… You don’t understand this now, but in 10 years, you will wish (really wish) you had waited until marriage. Those 10 guys weren’t worth that bond.
i wouldnt say selfish, i would just say that its the lack of control. if you really love someone THAT much just get married to them. if not, just bloody wait. i have a boyfriend and i love him to death, we’ve been together for two years but we’re still waiting because its one thing to have been loving someone for 2-3 years but its another when you love someone for the rest of your life. so just wait for your spouse.
o and for those who have already had sex before marriage are in “love” stop being so damn defensive
I think it mostly is… in some cases it’s more about the now and what you want at that time. There are a lot of times when in that moment it’s more of a selfless decision that turns selfish.
No, it’s not, at least not more than sex in a marriage.
Sex without any intention of procreation is selfish.
I don’t think there is anything wrong at all with sex that isn’t for the purpose of procreation.
Sex feels good and we need it on some level.
I really don’t care.
I’m a lesbian and I can’t legally get marrried in most of the states in this country so….what do I care about heterosexuals and their sex lives?
test drive the ride before you drive. but this sounds like another attempt to convince people that sex is more than animalistic.
Completely correct. Premarital sex in many cases shows physical desire, and a lack of emotional connection. It is a selfish action, only to please the persons involved.
“It’s like having two eyes. You either look through one eye or you look through the other. Or you look through both of them. Sex is sex. Love is love. Love and sex is clear vision.” — Neil Young
I totally agree. Look, for a relationship to be mature and full, you have to know how you will react both to friendship and companionship, and to physical relations. Because, let’s face it, when people get married they have sex. And if they haven’t had sex before, the sex may be awful. Or, they might discover that it makes them uncomfortable. And that will damage your relationship. People get divorced because they are unhappy, and this can be one of the reasons.
It’s a stupid one, but there is rarely a very good reason for divorce.
I speak as one who can tell you, my boyfriend and I have sex. But we also talk, we support one another, and we are INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT in making our relationship work. You have to look out of both eyes; you can’t ignore the sex aspect any more than you can ignore your dedication to that other person as a human being.
So no, I disagree with that guy completely. That is a ton of BS, and he is throwing it out there with an agenda — not to be helpful, but to accomplish something.
Completely correct. Premarital sex in many cases shows physical desire, and a lack of emotional connection. It is a selfish action, only to please the persons involved.
Sex is a physical act of nature. Having premarital sex with the intent of using that person to gain in exchange for sex is selfish. Playing with people’s emotions is selfish. But I don’t feel premarital sex is necessarily selfish, more childish than anything.
I would consider extramarital sex selfish. Once you’ve made the committment and can’t “contain” yourself. Otherwise it’s saying it’s selfish to buy a hamburger at more than one restaurant. It’s putting way more into it than it really is. No wonder people get so crazy over the topic. To me, sex is sex. Period.
I also want to say that “selfish sex” can happen within the bounds of any relationship. Yes, even marriage. Even rape can occur within marriage. Marriage is not a cure-all.
oh and this question also presumes that the reply is coming from someone who believes that marriage is more than a financial agreement between two parties. marriage is an antiquated institution, and so by removing from it the sacricity that so many project onto it the act of sex is negated as a sign of “true” love and becomes simply sex.
Usually, premarital sex is selfish. It doesn’t always have to be though.
I think Kestryl makes some very good points and I agree with most of what she said. When I disagree is because I am coming from a standpoint where marriage should mean what it used to and it seems that Kestryl’s view is that marriage doesn’t mean a lot anymore so it is therefore arbitrary. As I see it marriage used to be, and still should be, when you pledge your life to that of another in love which is not arbitrary to my way of thinking while currently marriage is almost meaningless to most people now.
It bugs me when people get into debates like there are on here where there is a Christian who is using the bible as justification to a non-believer. Attempting to use arguments such as that shows a lack of respect to the person who isn’t a Christian as they really don’t care what the bible says, therefore it is not caring and the bible teaches to care for others. I am a Christian, but your arguments must have a point of commonality to get anywhere.
Sex feels good. Having sex feels good. Married or not, you want to feel good, so yes, sex in general is selfish.
The distinction you try to make is whether or not the sex is blessed by some god. There is no god, so god can’t bless sex, and if there was a god, it certainly would not care about sex so to speak.
What a silly question.
Now why did I want to return to college? Why oh why did I want to return to college…
Hmmm?
I find that it isn’t. Now hear me out before you fundamenalists look down on me! I believe this is because many married couples are on the same levels as pre-marital couples.
We live in a society where the divorce rate is climbing. Isn’t it over 60% by now? Marriage might mean commitment on paper, but in the end it truly doesn’t.
Sure, of course most serious long term relationships don’t always last for life, or sometimes hell they do, or even evolve into marriage. Even if it’s only 10 or 20% of the time.
Now look at it this way. How can you blast one for being “sinful” and “selfish” when the only true difference is a legal one and a small statistic?
You know what that’s like? That’s like saying, since I can’t think of a better analogy, “Please, never get this disease that kills you 80% of the time. But we morally encourage you to get this disease that kills you only 60% of the time.”
It’s just a statistic, is my point, and the difference is slowly dropping.
I will agree that casual sex is sinful. But I honestly think the only true difference between loving premarital sex and sex after marriage is the fact that one relationship is harder to get out of due to legal circumstances, though people are disregarding that portion more and more.
-David
*Casual sex is selfish. Not too sure why I said sinful, I’m not an expert on sin and have some awkward beliefs about that. But I imagine it would be sinful anyway in most religions.
Just doesn’t flow right with the rest of my comment.
-David
those who say that they will only be faithful if they are physically pleased should not be in a relationship. if you NEED to rely on that, then your relationship lacks the love and only relys on lust. saying that premarital sex is selfish is debatable due to religion, but i believe that if you truely love someone and you both feel that a phycial increase is needed then do it. but i say this on the basis of TRUE love( the sincere kind with meaning, not the crap everyone says now days).
Life is short, but love is infinate…
.
this is quite a generalization..
sex can be selfish, but it can also be meaningful and loving.. inside or outside of marriage.
It’s only selfish when you just want it.
And no, I will not regret it because I know I’m spending my lifetime with him.
so take that and shove it
One of the problems with society is that we have lost a handle on what love is. I know many people who claim to love their girlfriend or boyfriend and then suffer a nasty break up and never speak to one another again. That is definitely not love but many people somehow believe that it is.
I believe that the emotional aspect of any relationship is much stronger than the physical aspect could ever be and if you cannot hold off on the physical part long enough for marriage then the relationship has a very weak foundation and is unlikely to stand. Therefore waiting to have sex until after you are married and waiting to get married until you are truly ready is the only way to build a strong lasting relationship.
That wouldn’t expain post-marital sex. So you get a ring and a commitment…. but if you don’t enjoy sex with your partner it’s not going to work anyway. So why go through the trouble of a marriage only to find out when it’s too late that your partner doesn’t shag well?
What can I say? I’m selfish.
I have a friend who just got married. Before he met this girl, he had been engaged twice and knew that he would marry them until it fell apart. In one of those cases, it fell apart about a week before the wedding. I see this as proof that you never know who you will marry until you actually are married.
It’s just sex. We use it to express our selves to eachother. Same goes for handshakes, hugs, kisses, words, etc. It’s a physical act that involves two people and a whole lot of hormones. The only reason we focus on the pleasure aspect of it is because now a days we know how to prevent pregnancy, hence casual sex. Nobody would be having casual sex if we didn’t have a way to prevent pregnancy, exepct for those who already are together and plan on being together.
Remember, we humans are just a very advanced form of life. Unlike all the other forms of life on this planet, we are the only ones who have sex for pleasure. Everything else has sex in order to reproduce.
HappyDevient, how is premaritial sex necessary? I think he just said that so he could get some. Anyway, how is it selfish. I am nowhere near having premaritial sex, but how could it be selfish if the love is real?
Yes.
Pope John Paul II has been saying this for decades. There is a direct link between contraception, divorce and selfishness. Marriage — and really, love in general — is not about that. It’s about selflessness.
Dan, I think this is gonna be my last post on this site. I will read your articles but I can’t look at the shallow comments of people any more. I don’t want to be pesimistic but it is hard not to be with all the sad comments from people who don’t know any form of truth they just blab about whatever they feel like at the time.
Girls I am sorry but if you think sex is a nec. part of a healthy relationship with your boyfriends than you will be lucky to keep him for more than 3 weeks. All I hear in the locker rooms is how they banged their girl friends and now they broke up and they are banging some other girl.
Look, I hardly know anything about relationships. I have stayed away from them for the 19 years I have been alive. However, I do know what love is. And my desire is to love my future wife so much that I am willing to wait just for her. I have never even kissed a girl because I don’t want to compare her to anyone else. No I do not have a problem with kissing before marriage but I would rather stay away from it for now. This is the way I want to love my wife, but I know everyone has different ways of loving their partners. And you know what, if my wife ends up not being able to have sex I would be willing to let it go for her. I watched a movie recently where one of the guys told his friend a story about a man who got into a terrible accident and his wife was horribly disfigured. So he said that his eyes hurt and he closed them for 12 years. His wife past away and he opened his eyes again. He had prettended to be blind for 12 years so that his wife wouldn’t know that he saw her scars. To me that is what true love is, that is something they write fairy tails about and everyone gasps at how beautiful the story was.
I think premarital sex, in the very least, does tell our society that there’s little or no reason to be married, since it just makes marriage into a slip of paper you both sign. Since premarital sex is already a sign of commitment for some, then why be legally and/or religiously bound to one another, especially if you can TRUST one another?
But I consider it a bigger sign of commitment if a person can wait until marriage for sex, simply because it tells me she’d rather commit herself to me for life in a rather unpleasurable way (who actually WANTS to legally bind themselves to somebody??) rather than just commit to me in rather mutually-beneficial ways, such as premarital sex or moving in with me.
But then again, seems like no marriage is safe today, since divorce is so easy to do nowadays. Why stay bound to someone who i’m growing tired of when i can just divorce him/her and find someone new?
I read the article, and even though I guess I can see his point about premarital sex (I think waiting until marriage does have it’s benefits, even though I am not sure that is what I personally will do), I completely disagree with his sentiments on contraception and masturbation. The “natural family planning” he advocates just doesn’t work. A woman can get pregnant on any day of her cycle, and even if she couldn’t, what about women whose menstral cycles aren’t completely regular? Do those women need to constantly put themselves at risk for a pregnancy they don’t want because they have no medically acceptable way of finding out when they are most likely to become pregnant?
And the bit about how putting on a condom means the husband doesn’t “respect” his wife: how is it not “respecting” her? As long as he isn’t trying to make her do things that make her uncomfortable, cheating on her, or otherwise demeaning her, how is it disrespectful? Same goes for how the woman treats the man.
People who have that sort of attitude seem to take issue with sex being pleasurable. What’s wrong with having sex strictly for pleasure, as long as no one is getting hurt?
Same goes for masturbation. I don’t see how it could be wrong if you’re not hurting anyone. You’re not risking STDs, pregnancy, or a messy emotional situation, so no one is getting hurt by it.
As far as sex is concerned, the way I see it, it is something special that should be reserved for someone who you truly care about on a deep level. Casual sex is selfish because there is always the chance that one person is secretly hoping it will become something more and then is deeply hurt when it doesn’t. I wouldn’t go so far to say all premarital sex is selfish, though. It’s fine if it has a physical component (there’s something wrong if it doesn’t!) but there should be more than just the physical.
I’d say yes. And for those who say that they wait till its the person they are ‘going’ to marry…accidents happen, and we don’t know what the future holds. For me personally, I want it to be that when I’m with my wife, I don’t have any other memories distracting me, and I can be totally focused on her.
completely and utterly selfish. if you have sex pre-marriage, you’re showing your significant other that you just want a night of fun from them as opposed to a lifetime together. it’s not love if you’re not willing to wait. premartial sex isn’t a declaration of love; it’s a declaration of the absence of true love.
seriously, i’m about ready to start responding to these people with “fuck you”. just because you have sex before you get married, doesnt’ mean you ‘just want a night of fun’. waiting isn’t a prerequisite to love, and you’re ignorant if you think such.
Girls I am sorry but if you think sex is a nec. part of a healthy relationship with your boyfriends than you will be lucky to keep him for more than 3 weeks. All I hear in the locker rooms is how they banged their girl friends and now they broke up and they are banging some other girl.
hey, i’ve kept mine for three years. seems people who comment you site need to stop making such generalizations, dan, because it only shows how ignorant they can be. so many people love the idea of regulated rules and norms — they’ll blindly follow doctrine (any kind) without thinking that maybe, just maybe, people live life as they seem fit, and that doesn’t necessarily make them more right than anyone else.
No. Maybe. Does it matter? There’s a little bit of selfishness in everyone. As long as that’s not what you let take over the relationship, and it’s mutually satisfying, it’s okay.
Completely correct. Premarital sex in many cases shows physical desire, and a lack of emotional connection. It is a selfish action, only to please the persons involved.
that’s right, in many. not all. besides, physical desire doesn’t negate emotional connection. i may wanna bang my boyfriend, but that doesn’t mean i don’t emotionally connect with him. it doesn’t mean i’ve any desire to have sex with anyone else. it’s about commitment, physical and otherwise, to him and him alone.
Sometimes but not always.
that’s all i’m saying..
This article makes me so mad I can’t even comment rationally. So please excuse my lack of structured, logical arguement because it makes me so upset when people think like that guy does.
Based on personal experience, I believe that premarital sex in a loving long term, monogamous relationship is an excellent idea, as long as you use protection. If I have children, I will recommend that they have sex with anyone they are considering marrying. I still think that one night stands and other forms of casual sex are not a good idea. I also think that contraception is the best idea ever. ever. And condoms especially. Even outside the prevention of pregnancy, its protection from disease. Because you can’t control what your partner does or says. But you can insist on a condom and protect yourself in case that person is untrustworthy. (This arguement also applies to the HPV vaccine.)
I also think from personal experience that sexual problems can rip apart a marriage. This has nothing to do with technique, but everything to do with communication and respect and consideration for each other’s needs and desires. The most important ingredient to good sex is the right attitude and an open mind. Which brings me to the following point.
I really pity the woman who has the misfortune of having to sleep with the guy who wrote that article. He sounds like a total drag, not to mention an irrational zealot.
Geez, what an idiot.
I’m not really one to point a finger at people, so I wouldn’t know. Even though I’m a Christian, I believe sex while you’re ENGAGED isn’t particularly bad.
Sometimes I wish I wasn’t bound by rules like this, but other times, it seems to make life easier to live if you’re pretty sure of where the line is between good and bad.
Although that line is pretty damn hard to see at times.
I think that sex before marriage makes your wedding night not as exciting and special then, since you’ve done it before. For me, it would be kind of a let down, since that’s one thing people really look forward to. That’s kind of selfish, in a way.
I know some people who didn’t kiss for the first time until they were up in front of everyone, and they had just been pronounced man and wife!
That’s a little too much holding back for me. I’d like to know I’m loved in a relationship, not just someone to entertain or cause pleasure for no apparent reason.
If you are in love and in a relationship, I don’t think so.
“If I have children, I will recommend that they have sex with anyone they are considering marrying.” shellybean99
Am I reading that right? That is a really bold statement. So, your 15 year old daughter is at her boyfriend’s house and she is dreaming of marrying this kid someday. Let’s have sex! So at 15 (or younger) you, as the mom, are giving her the permission to have sex with her boyfriend. You said she should use contraception, so that’s good. At least you probably won’t have a grandchild to take care of. I really want you to consider making adding some other qualifications to your statement. Perhaps age. Perhaps making sure the guy hasn’t slept with 10 other 15-year-olds. Perhaps think about the emotional scars your daughter will take with her when that guy dumps her in 2 weeks. She will have a permanent emotional bond with him for the remainder of her life. When she gets married, sex won’t have the same meaning to her.
I hope I gave you some things to think about. I don’t want to come across as an old married woman, but I want to you think about your statement. I want your future children to be happy and emotionally healthy. Just give it some thought.
I’m not really one to point a finger at people, so I wouldn’t really no what to say. Even though I’m a Christian, I believe that sex while you’re ENGAGED isn’t particularly bad.
Sometimes I wish I wasn’t bound by these “rules” in this religion, but I think that it makes life easier to live if you have some idea of where the line between right and wrong is, so you’re not constantly piled up with guilt about things.
I think that sex before marriage proves that you’re impatient. For me, it would probably take away the excitement and specialness or your wedding night. Since that’s one of the big things in life we look forward too, it would suck to, shall we say, waste it when it’s not as special.
Of course some people would say “Of course it’s special! It’s sex!”
Don’t be stupid. Prostitutes can tell you it’s not special to them. And I’m not saying sex before marriage qualifies you as a prostitute. I’m just saying it would be more special if you waited.
About the comment …”I may do a protected entry on this soon “….
Ohh..I am sorry but that sounds like sex with a condom.
Sex is such a complex and complicated thing, I don’t even want to mess with it until I’m married. Plus, the waiting makes it more meaningful.
basically. i say what kestryl says. And besides, practice makes perfect right?
Yes it’s selfish, and more than that.
I read a book recently talking about this… and honeymoon suites (etc.) are having to find new things to do for newly married couples. Whereas, those who abstain only need a hotel room. This is because they’ve viewed sex as more than just “Wheee!” It’s a privilege.
There are other reasons. The biggest being that God told us not to… I think that should be enough in of itself, but some people don’t take it that way. But He didn’t tell us not to because he doesn’t want us to have fun. He told us not to for very good reasons…
LOL. No, you retards.
Whoa, for some reason I thought that didn’t post, so I wrote down the same thing twice…. Seems like overkill, haha.
I don’t think it is, and it’s also pretty unhealthy. He is also vastly underestimating the human mind and it’s emotions. There are many people out there who engage in this act and still get married.
Eh, why is it selfish? Just curious. Could anyone else come up with a better adjective? It’s just that selfish, well, sucks. *Cringes*
So if sex is the truest/best/only/tip-of-the-ship way that two people can show love for one another, can you say then that one person doesn’t love another if he/she isn’t willing to participate in sex? That really changes things quite a bit.
but sex can be selfish even if you do marry – when you want sex just for gratification – which can happen in a marriage, doesn’t that make it selfish?
personally I’d rather have an emotion connection than JUST a sexual connection…
Both together would be ideal.
*HUGS*
Don’t put everything in one bucket Dan. Premarital sex should be view case by case if they are selfish or not.
“So if sex is the truest/best/only/tip-of-the-ship way that two people can show love for one another, can you say then that one person doesn’t love another if he/she isn’t willing to participate in sex? That really changes things quite a bit.”
Indeed. A good notion. I would say that sex is in fact, one of the best ways to show love, though it can be abused for pleasure, as we all know. Your question then brings down the whole question of “What the hell is love? Does love really equal sex on some level?”
I mean take this. Would you be willing to get married (ultimate legal show of love) to a person who for some medical reason could not do anything sexual with you?
-David
Um, no. Marriage has nothing to do with how much you love someone. What if you don’t want to get married, ever, but still plan on spending your life with this person? And if that doesn’t work out, you don’t have to go through the mess of divorce and papers and money.
Or what about two people of the same sex that CAN’T get married? Of course, if you’re downing sex outside of marriage, I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t believe it that. But it’s just as real as any other relationship, and they aren’t even capable of marriage.
David,
My opinion on what love is comes directly from the Bible, specifically I Corinthians 13. Nowhere in there does it mention sex. In fact, it says a lot about putting the other person ahead of you in everything. Always trusting the person, keeping no record of fouls committed against you. A lot of people say marriage is 50/50. I disagree. Others think 100/100. I disagree with that too. I think marriage is 100/0. You give 100%, you expect nothing. That’s what love is.
I think that is silly. Kids, have sex, for the most part at too early of an age. They aren’t prepared for the emotional responsibility (or physical). To tell people that premarital sex is selfish is just wrong.
“And in the end, the love you take is the love you make.”
Besides, it doesn’t matter. I AM love
I don’t think it is. Being selfish in a relationship has nothing to do with premaritial sex or contraceptive. It has everything to with the person and how they feel about committment.
Isn’t it amazing how many people are really uncomfortable with sin, so they tie up their mental meanderings into something like a Gordion knot. Reading some of these comments makes me wonder why “allah” doesn’t just let Iran nuke us and get the misery over with.
I think people just need to chill out and let people do what they want to do. Whether or not two people are having sex doesn’t affect you at all and is frankly NONE of your business, unless you’re the parent.
“My opinion on what love is comes directly from the Bible, specifically I Corinthians 13. Nowhere in there does it mention sex. In fact, it says a lot about putting the other person ahead of you in everything. Always trusting the person, keeping no record of fouls committed against you. A lot of people say marriage is 50/50. I disagree. Others think 100/100. I disagree with that too. I think marriage is 100/0. You give 100%, you expect nothing. That’s what love is.”
I theoretically agree, but I unfortunately believe most people wouldn’t be willing to marry without sexual relations. I won’t be self-righteous with this, I know I couldn’t. We do have primal instincts, after all.
Or then one might agree to marry, but on the condition that you can have sex with others. Then that completely unsanctifies every definition of sexuality and labels it a sin. Blah. Hypothetical situations.
-David
It is sin
Yes.
what’s so wrong with “i’ll be faithful if you please me”
why should a person have to be faithful to a lifelong partner who is not respectful, agreeable, and interesting? there is a person for everyone, so if you mess up and think you’re in love and it turns out you’re not, you should be given a second chance. i don’t like the idea of being “not allowed” to break up with someone if he is an asshole.
Sex can be selfish within a marriage, too – marriage does not guarantee that all will be well, or that one partner won’t take advantage of the other, or that one partner won’t shut down, emotionally or physically. It happens every day. Look at the divorce rate. IDEALLY, marriage should not be that way – it should be always loving and always looking our for the best interests of each other. But sadly, that doesn’t always happen.
In an ideal loving, committed relationship – ideally, marriage – physical intimacy and affection can be the glue that holds a couple together, through thick and thin. I have known many couples, however, who found that they just aren’t physically compatible, or well-matched, after marriage, and it causes great hurt and rifts in the relationship, even if they waited for each other until marriage. While waiting is for our own good (single pregnancy, diseases, emotional pain, etc..) and marriage may be God’s ideal for us, marriage does not ensure great physical or emotional intimacy. It happens, but not to everyone. It’s a fallen world – no longer the ideal.
I’m not saying marriage is bad – far from it – or that premarital sex is not a sin. It is better to wait. Just that marriage itself is not a guarantee of bliss in this area.
and i agree with the practice thing.
isn’t it ENOUGH just to stick with one person for the last 60 years of your life, even if for the first 25 you didn’t?
It seems to me that a lot of people believe marriage to be only between a man and a woman. Even many of those being married forget this crucial reality that the man and woman are being married WITH God. God is part of their marriage; marriage is a way that a man and woman share their love for the other and all the joy of it with God.
If you see marriage in this way, premarital sex is definitely a selfish thing because when two married people have sex, being married shares the joy of that union with God who has shared EVERYTHING with us. Two unmarried people having sex is sex between two people, and to me seems like a way of saying that they don’t want God involved in that part of their life. Why wouldn’t you want God as a part of every moment?
After reading through most of these comments, I find it truly amazing how many people are confusing the original question of, “Is premarital sex selfish?” with the presumed question of, “Is premarital sex a sin?” Why do people have trouble differentiating the two questions?
Peace,
Chaz
For those who say that “love” should be the determining factor for a couple to have sex or not, I’d ask what they would say love is?
What if you consider love from this perspective: “Love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy. It does not boast, it’s not proud; it’s not rude or self seeking. Love is not easily angered; it keeps no record of wrong. It does not get pleasure out of evil, but celebrates when truth is honored. It always protects, always hopes, always sticks with it.” If you have that love it will “never fail.”
The problem with the mentality of “if you love the person then its fine” is most of those people don’t truly grasp what love is. Love isn’t a feeling. Love isn’t the butterflies that come when you are around that special person. Love isn’t something that will cause you to do something that will severely harm your chances of having a successful marriage down the road.
Studies have been conducted that couples who waited for sex until marriage are more likely to remain married, have fulfilling sex lives, and are less likely to wind up with sexually transmitted diseases. Now would I go as far as to say that all couples who have/had sex before they got married likely to wind up divorced, find themselves unfulfilled sexually, and full of STD’s? I’m not saying that’s going to be the case every time. However, even from a non-religious standpoint, wouldn’t it make sense to take a few precautions early on in life if those precautions are more than likely going to improve your quality of life–and if you don’t wind up with a STD, possibility quantity of life–later on?
For those who say it’s not possible to save sex for marriage, or no one does anymore, I’d say from experience you are wrong. I’m not the only one who decided years and years ago that sex was something that I was saving for if and when I got married. Was it easy making it through my teen years a virgin? No. Was it easy to turn down opportunities that came up where I easily could have had sex in college? Not at all. Was it easy waiting until I was 29, and married, to have sex for the first time? Not at all. But I’m sure others who have similar stories to mine will agree that the wait was well worth it. In essence, those who didn’t let their hormones overshadow their thinking were telling their spouse, on their wedding night, “I loved you so much, that even before I met you I was saving this level of intimacy for you.” And that’s a gift that was worth waiting too give.
“Why wouldn’t you want God as a part of every moment?”
Because that’s kind of creepy, IMHO.
Yes, very much so. If you aren’t commited enough to someone to get married, then you have no right to have sex with them. Sex is nowhere near as sacred as it once was, and should be.
Uhhh, no. Being HUMAN is selfish! It’s all a matter of control. I wouldn’t label it as selfish, it’s being human. Why do you think we teach kids not to cut in line and to share with others? People like to hog things for themselves, and fight with people, but thats being human. It’s all a matter of how much control you have over yourself.
I think that professor is really wrong about infidelity and divorce being linked to premarital sex. Correlation does NOT imply causation, didn’t we learn this in stat class? There is so much complexity and just contributing it to premarital sex as if it’s a cure all is foolish. If a person doesn’t want to be faithful, they won’t be no matter what rules you set. Nothing will stop that, it just shows a selfish person is using the tools we make to be all the more well…selfish.
People have hormones, they make us feel a certain way. As humans we pick up scents, and have the urge to pleasure ourselves and reproduce. The same thing happens with our bodies before marriage as it does after.
In regards to sinning in the Christian view, it certainly is! The question should be:
Is sinning selfish?
Everything a human being does is selfish dude. If it there wasn’t something beneficial in it for us, we wouldn’t do it. Sex before marriage? It’s great. Although I would have to echo a lot of the previous commenters and say that casual sex is not nearly as cool at committed monogamous sex.
Marriage is overrated.
So is god.
I find it hilarious that a lot of the people who comment keep using the bible and “god’s word” as the final say in any ethical issue. It’s 2007 people. Come forth into the age of reason!
I dunno. I’ve never thought about it in those terms. I was just always told it was wrong, don’t do it, it’s a sin, you’ll go to hell. Guess I’m hell bound. I would have to say it would depend on ones upbringing and how sex is broached within that family. If my family had been more open and discussed the topic in such a way, I may have been more hesitant to indulge. All I know is telling someone not to is a prescription for go ahead.
I had premarital sex. I am pregnant. I can say with 100% certainty that it is a mistake, and that true love really does wait, as corny as it may sound. I know that my boyfriend/fiancee loves me. We are going to raise our little girl together, and we plan on getting married soon….but why couldn’t we have waited? It was selfish of us to do that to our little girl. It was selfish of us to put extra emotional burdens on each other.
If Caleb (my boyfriend) knows that I love him, then I shouldn’t have to have sex to show him as such…he should know and trust my word and sincerity. And same goes for me. In fact, looking back, our premarital sex caused problems because, afterwards, I was afraid that he didn’t love me as much as he did when we had agreed to abstain.
Sorry, guys. Truth is truth. I do not, under any circumstances, regret my baby. But I wish I could have offered her a married mom and dad at birth, and I wish I would have avoided the emotional turmoil of, “Wow, we had sex…am I valued?…” and I wish I could have had the self control to show Caleb that he was SO worth the wait.
We don’t like to hear that because we don’t want to hear negatives about ourselves….but sometimes, truth just stings. Like alcohol on an open wound….
Alright good luck everyone
oh of course it is… but people are, by law, selfish. did God not create sin for a reason?
YES! Admittedly, I’m a Christian. I’d like to comment about contraception though–the whole point is to enable people to have sex without getting pregnant. I think the proper use is within a marriage to allow a couple to enjoy each other when they are not ready for children or cannot support children at the time.
no
Hell no. Its only selfish if you make your partner do all the work. TeeHee.
I’m not sure that it’s always “selfish” but I do know it creates problems. I fell into this sin myself, but I think it was more that I failed in my struggle to keep myself pure. I slipped into temptation, by not guarding myself against it well enough. Like I said, it creates many problems, which I am suffering from right now, but selfish doesn’t seem to fit as well as other terms might
If you or your partner believe pre-marital sex is wrong, then giving in and having sex is probably going to be selfish. However, if you don’t believe (often religiously-based) that sex before marriage is wrong, it isn’t definitively going to be selfish. It could be, just like sex within marriage can be selfish. Sex is a physical act, selfishness is an emotion or motivation. They aren’t utterly intwined, and therefore blanket generalizations are stupid.
Yuppers
it’s selfish not to share.
“So, your 15 year old daughter is at her boyfriend’s house and she is dreaming of marrying this kid someday. Let’s have sex! So at 15 (or younger) you, as the mom, are giving her the permission to have sex with her boyfriend.”
Issymac, you’re right, I did not qualify my statement. Like I said in my post, I got really mad when I read that article and I was typing off the cuff. I didn’t think about it in terms of a 15 year old daughter because that’s not the stage of life I was at 15, I was thinking more in terms of a college age child. However, I will let my teenage daughters know that if they are considering having sex, that I will absolutely take them to the Dr. and get them on the pill and buy them condoms (this part obviously applies to sons too)because I do not want them to get pregnant because they think they’ll get in trouble if they ask for birth control! Of course, I will first subject them to a long lecture that I think they are too young to have sex and that sex at too young an age, too soon in the relationship, and with the wrong person has a great deal of negative consequences.
But speaking as an old divorced woman, being married doesn’t necessarily prevent you from having emotional scars related to sex. And speaking as a child of very overprotective, moralistic parents, I don’t want my children to feel guilty about their sexuality because people can’t help feeling desire. That doesn’t make them a dissapointing child or a bad person.
Only if it’s all you ever do. Like, no, I can’t make my illegitimate children dinner, I’m busy having premaritial sex.
I don’t agreed with having sex before getting married but, I would not called it selfish. What bothers me the most is that these days guys EXPECT all girls are open to having sex before they have gotten married while they are casually dating. And there are lesser and lesser of guys out there whom are willing to wait until they have gotten married. Maybe, this could be a fraction why couple leads to divorce. When people say they want to see how their partners is like in bed to make sure they are good is like implying they have doubts in their relationships. If they love each other so much they are willing to except all their flaws including how they are like in bed then these couples shows more assertion and devotion to their relationships. Therefore, when they get married they probably would last longer because they love each so much they are willing to work things out.
Yep.
I’ve never been told that premarital sex was “selfish.”
My youth group did a study over Song of Solomon in the Old Testament… It was a really good two days, especially if you know what that part of the Bible is about.
I’ve always wanted to save myself for my husband … just having sex before that is so dirty to me.
But whatever.
yes it is.
yes
Absolutely not. I don’t think you should have to be married to have sex if you are in love. Marriage is, essentially, a piece of paper. To some, that’s what it is. I look at marriage as a lifelong commitment to the love of your life- that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be able to make love to people who you love along the way. (I think you can fall in love many times, but only have one true soulmate) Or fuck random hookers on the street. I personally hold a no-sex-before-LOVE position- I think premarital sex is fine, but you should be in love… but it’s everyone’s choice when they have sex. I will never have the luxury of marriage as long as I live in the US, but I will wait until I am in love.
If you think abstinence equals love, go ahead and think that- but Catholics get divorces too.
Gosh, what is it with everyone in this country being so obsessed with people’s sex lives? What is with religion butting into it? You can’t have gay sex, anal sex, premarital sex, sex with the lights on, animal sex, oral sex, penis sex, vagina sex, masturbation sex, or any other type of sex according to their standards.
if sex, in the marriage bed or not, is done for one´s own pure physical pleasure, then it is selfish.
i have come to the opinion that any sexual act creates a bond between two people that is very difficult to be broken painlessly (unless we´re acting like animals, which is selfishness). therefore, there should be a point in time when two people make the decision to create that bond and not let it be broken. if a wedding or a piece of paper from the courthouse helps them do that, then great, but right now, that doesn´t seem to make a difference. do i think the lack of a ceremony blurs the lines and the promises made by two people to such an extent that they can be easily forgotten, swept under the rug, or allow the conditions to change when the other partner isn´t looking? yes (and it can then lead to easily committing selfish acts, such as reneging on said promises). do i think a ceremony ensures success? haha… hahahaha… the words premarital and marital have no difference in that regard except for tax status. make the promise and make it for real and forever. that´s what marriage is.
the Bible proposes that the wise man will surround himself with advisers and that words of painful truth are love. be honest about being mature enough to make such a deep decision.
when some topics hit your own history, you need a lot of words.
It can be. The reasoning in that article is more than a little convoluted.
Not at all. I think when you have love you should be able to have sex with the person you’re in love with. At anytime. Whether with a marriage contract or not. Sex with love isn’t selfish. It helps bond the people together as one unit. It helps love expand.
mmm thanks for posting that
That question is terribly black and white.
I grew up in a conservative protestant family which later converted to Catholicism. I went to private schools up through 8th grade, did the whole “Path of Purity,” thing and learned that everything sexual is bad before marriage.
Without arguing anyone else’s views I will say that my experience with sex was painful (at first), not because it was sinful and I was in a selfish relationship, but rather because as a kid I had been taught that sex was bad and that i was sinning for wanting it, thinking about it, talking about it, watching it, etc.
I have been with my girlfriend for a little over a year; together we have grown emotionally and spiritually, as a couple and as individuals. I have learned that the physical component of a relationship is just as important as the emotional, spiritual and rational components; man is not just his mind and spirit, but also his emotions and body. Love is expressed many ways. Rationally, it is providing for someone; Emotionally it is caring for someone; spiritually, it is helping someone to grow; physically, it is embracing, accepting and nurturing the other person. This can mean holding, hugging, bracing, catching, and yes, making love to that person.
Needless to say, I was not about to to go anywhere near sex when we first started dating. I knew and believed all the arguments about how terrible pre-marital sex and masterbation were. I felt guilty doing anything sexual. I was hesitant to hold her hand for the first time. It took a lot of work to realize that there is so much more to sex than morality. My parents’ divorce showed me that marriage does not mean that a relationship is complete and healthy.
Yet sex is way more than a physical act. It is an incredible connection that has the power to bind, create, comfort, and heal. I am more of a person because I have healed from wounds that I got when I was young. It has, for me, been an incredible sexual healing. I believe that sex is very special; it is a deep emotional experience. I also believe that sex is a very instinctual, natural desire. I love my girlfriend more than I can express and hope to marry her, but we do different things sometimes: we make love, we have sex, we fuck – sometimes all at once.
Sex has been the most healing experience I have ever had; it has brought me and my girlfriend to deeper, closer levels of intimacy, trust, and love.
I think that the views of sex have changed so much.
With my generation, sex is just something you do. Such as riding a motorcycle, playing cards, drinking, or anything else. I mean sometimes you probably shouldn’t have rode the motorcycle into that ditch, or you shouldn’t have played that ace, or maybe you shouldn’t have drank those shots, but so what. Maybe you shouldn’t have had sex with this person, or that person, but so what.
Maybe those are bad examples…but my generation is basically just saying “so what” to sex. At least this is my experience, especially my first year of college.
My generation doesn’t think about marriage when they think about sex. Marriage is probably the last things from alot of people’s minds when they are doing the deed.
However, my generation is very selfish.
So, yes…it is selfish.
However my generation is desensitized to everything, so we don’t even know we are being selfish.
Cut us some slack.
To say that a non-marital relationship becomes based ON sex if one HAS sex in that relationship is akin to saying that if one begins to hold hands with another, then holding hands becomes the focus of that relationship. Both sex and holding hands are physical bonds which express love, NOT the all-consuming core of your being, upon which your relationship constantly depends.
I think the article is weak to start with. If I didn’t already believe pre-marital sex was wrong, he wouldn’t have convinced me. And since I don’t have a problem with birth control, he didn’t convince me on that either.
Anyway, to answer Dan’s actual question, yes, pre-marital sex is selfish. It’s not proof of love, and any love that’s worth having and keeping can wait until marriage. It just takes some self-control. Sex is a bond, it was intended to be that way, and the first time particularly so. (Come on, you all know exactly who you lost your virginity to!) You only get one first time and one chance to have that bond with someone, so to waste it on a relationship that got a little hot and bothered one night, and depriving your future spouse of it is selfish and shows a lack of self-control.
define marriage first
I think you can have love and commitment with out marriage. I like to think I have that. I’ll keep you informed how it turns out.
This is the biggest bunch of hogwash I’ve read.
I didn’t marry till I was 35. I had many partners before my husband. My husband and I had sex and lived together for a year and a half before we married. We have been happily and faithfully married for 26 years. Your attitude is what you make it. I’m sure there are plenty of people you place their own interests first and use others. Having sex doesn’t create that attitude. The attitude was there before sexual contact ever occured. If you look closer at these same individuals who take that attitude, I’m sure you will see other signs of selfishness in other behaviors besides the sexual relationships.
I remember in the 60s when women were told that abstinance was a form of sexual blackmail used to badger men into marriage. I didn’t believe that anymore than I believe that lack of abstinance is selfish. If anyone is selfish it is the idiot who is pushing this crazy idea in order to promote abstinance.
Jezz! The world just gets “stupider and stupider.”
Yes it is.
Two things::
1) Despite what many may tell you, you don’t think of previous sexual partners when you are with the person you’re dating at the time.
2) Some people say that the most meaningful thing you can give to someone you marry is your virginity. What a load of shit. The most meaningful thing you give to your spouse is your committment through marriage and your promise to them that you will be with them until death. Not a goddamn hymen being intact or not.
I agree. [:
(short comment..)
it CAN be selfish. it’s not always selfish. that’s so one sided and ignorant. i think it’s beautiful when the couple makes sure to not focus on it too much and focus on a relationship first and foremost. my boyfriend and i focus on a relationshp and he PROVES to me that he doesn’t need anything sexual, but we have some fun at times. it CAN be selfish if not approached the right way and i think it’s easy to become selfish about it, but no premarital sex is not selfish absolutely. that’s rediculous. if you’re a strong evangelical christian, then yeah i think premarital sex can mess with your head and become something you “fall into” and “give into” but if you’re outside the christian faith then that doesn’t always apply to you. it’s very relative in my opinion to who the person is, how they handle sexual activity (if they can handle it the right way), and if there really is true love to begin with.
capital Y capital E capital S followed by about a million exclamation points=
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i was taught that you have sex with someone you love, and you were supposed to wait til marriage because its the best gift you can ever give your spouse.
Whether or not sex is selfish has nothing to do with a legal piece of paper….
Sex is selfish when it is forced or done without 100% honesty in some way. That has nothing to do with a legal institution.
nope
I don’t beleive it’s selfish at all….
Yes. You’re joining your bodies together in a very intimate way that was only meant for two people who are married. You’re joining your body with someone else when you aren’t in the covenant of marriage yet.
In the end it’s pretty obvious that it’s selfish…I don’t think it’s horrible or evil though. If people want to be selfish then I’m not going to stop them! And I wouldn’t go over to say that abstaining from it is “the highest form of love,” I think it just depends on the couple.
I had a friend ask about sex – a younger and virgin friend. I was talking to my husband about it and came up with a great analogy:
I thing pizza is great. And I love chicago deep dish pizza. Having had Giardanos pizza, I’ve now known what believe to be the best of this kind of pizza. Now here’s the question: is it worth it to wait to only ever have Giardano’s pizza – to wait for only the best (making love to someone while in love with them) or is it okay to indulge in the other kinds of pizza which are good too (casual sex/sex without love). In the end that’s a very personal choice, but me, I did enjoy not waiting for only the best.
I must say, I agree with LadyOfAvalonLand. You should try out all the parts of a relationship to make sure it works but sex isn’t suppose to be the first priority in the relationship. I mean, it is important to a pretty healthy relationship but it isn’t one of the main essential factors needed for a wonderfully successful relationship. Sex isn’t what a relationship should be built on, so yes, premarital sex can be selfish more often than not.
Yes…definitely selfish….but we are all human. I definitely see his point, but do I think it will change things, probably not. Today more than ever sex is all about “getting it” and not giving of self completely. I can honestly say after 12 years of marriage and several Premarital sex partners that I would love to erase all my past partners. Could I have said that then?, No. Hind site is 20/20 and I get that “wait till your married” thing Now, it is just unfortunately too late for me. I would certainly encourage any young readers to wait. You won’t regret waiting but you could very well regret not waiting.
I guess the question, then must be, “Is there such a thing as transcendent truth?” Of course it’s selfish, but is it wrong? If truth exists then it its wrong no matter what you believe. If it doesn’t, then who cares?
By the way, truth exists and it is wrong and you will regret it if you engage in it.
yes, I belive it is.
I wouldn’t want to marry a guy who had had sex with, kissed, held hands with, or even had emotional impurity with any woman before marriage. That’s the same reason I’m saving myself physically and emotionally until my wedding.
So in answer to your question, yes, premarital sex is selfish, among other things.
Don’t marry the one you love, love the one you marry.
Marriage is not a magic bullet. If it was, adultery would not exist. Some people just like sex too much.
“Don’t marry the one you love, love the one you marry.”
Yeah… that’s worked really well for all the battered women and/or victims of arranged marriage out there.
It can be.
BUT! It does not necessarily encourage infidelity. Your marriage is what you make it. Trust, Respect, and Encouragement. Sex is the after thought. If your partner is unloyal, then you did not have the ingredients for a perfect and harmonious relationship to start with.
It is believed that the shoes were made in Australia at the time of World War I when the aviators wore these shoes in the non pressurized cockpits of the aero planes. Made of sheepskin and sometimes of kangaroo fur, the UGG boots that also include women’s UGG Boots a swell as children’s Ugg boots are made of the leather that has been tanned.
I was going to submit a comment on this Blog, however, I read this entry and there is within this post all of the points and concepts that I would have wanted to share in a post of my own. The only difference is that I sincerely feel that this post is composed in a way that far exceeds what I would have been able to submit in one of my own. @Accidental_Paradigm -
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