August 27, 2007
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Pope Benedict XVI and The Cover Up
The Pope is being accused of covering up the sexual molestation of three boys.
The U.S. Justice Department has rallied to get him immunity from the lawsuit because he is the head of state of the “Holy See.” The Assistant U.S. Attorney General Peter Keisler said that the lawsuit proceeding would be “incompatible with the United States’ foreign policy interests.”
The lawsuit cites a letter that the Pope wrote before he was Pope saying that the sexual abuse of minors cases should be handled by “special church tribunals handling the cases” and that those cases were subject to “pontifical secret.”
The plantiffs in the case believe that the “secret proceedings” were a conspiracy to cover up the sexual abuse. Here is the link: Link I first heard about this issue on this site a year ago: Link
Should the U.S. give the Pope immunity from the sexual abuse case because he is the head of state of the “Holy See?”
Comments (89)
No he should not have immunity. He is human isn’t he?
That’s ridiculous. Immunity? Ridiculous.
I don’t even know what Holy See is. Sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. He shouldn’t be given immunity from anything. What’s next, Osama Bin Laden given immunity because he’s the leader of his religion?
Absolutely not. If he was part of a cover up, then he should be just as liable as any other person. “Pontifical Secret” is bullshit. Child abuse is a horrible crime and no one, not even any head of any church should be allowed to cover it up. Child abuse is a crime and should be handled by the courts of the land, not the church.
No.
Sure, and give immunity to every other asshole who claims “God-given authority” at the same time, including Osama Bin Laden.
Morally, I don’t think that they should, but I am also a political realist. I believe that a country should do what is best in it’s own interests. Off the top of my head I’m not sure how this benefits the US or if it only benefits politicians. I personally don’t like the Pope. I’m not Catholic. Plus you know how I feel about the subject of punishing child predators.
No
NO!
Well, well. well. Let the Catholic-bashing begin.
Out of political realism, the U.S.seems to have to grant immunity. I wonder if there is an international-level judicial recourse for his crimes?
Um, what? I understand if the U.S. wants to keep religious groups happy by staying out of their affairs, but covering up sexual abuse? To be truly just you have to hold everyone to the same legal standards, if not moral standards. It’s not a “sin” thing, it’s a “law” thing.
One of the tenets of our court system is that no one is above the law in the US. I believe that extends to anyone and everyone who is not a US citizen also regardless of the impact on foreign policy.
I can see how people might think that we should make exceptions for politics but as I see it our political system and our foreign policy would in the long run be much more stable if we do not make exceptions. I realize that we already make a lot of exception for our government officials and for celebrities but it is not too late yet to begin tightening up our enforcement.
this is why i dont understand the catholicism. not that i’m against it, i really just dont understand why you have to go through someone else to talk to God. and why do priest love little boys so much?
i agree with squeaky soul…let the bashing begin.
he is the head of a political state. lets say i tried to sue the head of a country….it doesnt work, its not like hes the only one with immunity in such cases. the church does have its own system of law too
What’s Holy See? Dang, that’s scary, corruption at the very top.
If political realism dictates that we need to ignore our own laws and human rights then the political reality needs change it needs it yesterday.
the catholic church has its own country . its not just a religion. he is the head of a religion and a country
I just hope some idiot doesn’t take this and use it on all Christianity. On here I mean.
That is weird to have Church try the Church.
“Holy See” = Vatican? I think the head of the state is immune from lawsuits. So technically, he qualifies, since Vatican is a sovereign state.
Not that I’m agreeing to this tho…
What is it about Catholic priests and little boys?
Hell no, he sould be held at even a higher standard!
Dammit…these child molestations are really, REALLY pissing me off!
L
People should look at it from a political and legal view point, not a religious one. If the US would give immunity to the Head of State of any other country under the same circumstances, then they must also give immunity to the Pope, since he is the head of Vatican City, which is a politically independent state.
Wow, what the fuck? Of COURSE he should be given immunity! Duh! He became the Pope for that specific reason, didntcha know?
..No. Fuck no. Nobody should be safe from punishment for abusing children, I don’t care how high up in the ranks you are.
Absolutely not. That’s like saying “Okay priests! Rape away!”
Yes. Your head of state most certainly can’t be charged with a crime in the holy see either can he? Say for the war in Iraq?
I don’t think it has anything to do with “Catholic Bashing”, although some will use it as an opportunity for bashing. It has to do with what is morally right. The more I think about this, the madder I get. So, he will probably never be prosecuted because he is a head of state, any more than any other head of state would be prosecuted, but does that make what he supposedly did right? This country was founded on the principal of freedom of religion, but sometimes maybe we need freedom from religion. Is it right for a church to cover up criminal acts, thereby putting more people at risk? Politics and religion don’t always do what is morally right, which is a huge shame. Everyone should be held to the law of the land, especially when it involves the abuse of children.
If he did what he’s accused of, then he’s a wanker and should be punished.
Yet as a policy matter, if we grant immunity to other heads of state and if the US recognizes the Vatican as a state (it might not, dunno), then we must grant this pope (and every pope as long as we recognize the statehood of the Vatican) amnesty.
No.
Why is this even a question?
No
No way! Definatley not!!!
Like it or not (I don’t) he really is a foreign head of state (that he is also a head of a religion is beside the point), and as such has diplomatic immunity, so the United States cannot put him on trial.
However, that does not make what he did right.
Dan, it isn’t the Pope himself that is being accused of the actual molestation according to the article:
ROME — The U.S. Justice Department has told a Texas court that a lawsuit accusing Pope Benedict XVI (search) of conspiring to cover up the sexual molestation of three boys by a seminarian should be dismissed because the pontiff enjoys immunity as head of state of the Holy See.
It’s a difficult situation but everyone on here seems to be assuming that this automatically means that the Pope himself is the child molester and is evil and all that. This isn’t necessarily true. If you’re the head of the religion, of course you’re not going to want molestation incriminating your religion to be on the headlines. It’s a difficult situation, especially in trying times for the Catholic church. One of these days the pastors of the religion need to give it a break and stop giving Catholicism such a bad name.
-David
no. no one is safe from the law.
no!
Did the pope molest anyone? Doesn’t sound like it. If you ask me the whole case is BS. That being said your question is pretty stupid. And yes suing the pope is an exercise in futility. It’s like someone from Iraq suing the United States, would we give damages to the plaintiff if we didn’t want to? HEIL NO!
You really shouldn’t frame these questions so badly! Everyone on here seems convinced that the Pope himself is the molester, haha.
-David
so sayeth the spiiiider.
What would Nose do?
No. period.
You really shouldn’t frame these questions so badly! Everyone on here seems convinced that the Pope himself is the molester, haha.
I don’t see evidence of that in the comments…. He’s asking if the Pope should be immune from being charged with trying to hide the molestation. The question is plainly written, some people just don’t pay enough attention I guess. It would be like asking if you should give the doorman immunity in a rape case where he knew what was going on inside the room.
I just wanted to say “Hi”
*HUGS*
ya know… if the Catholic church would’ve just allowed its priests to marry from the beginning ( which it did) and KEPT it that way we wouldn’t have this problem
this is one more reason why I have little respect for the Catholic church…
but to answer the question, no, the Pope is not immune nor anyone in any religion on American soil- you do the crime, you do the time. Period.
Yet another badly formed and misleading question!
It has NOTHING to do with the Pope nor the allegations of molestation. It’s a legal and diplomatic conundrum that is presented.
Beyond the sensationalist head line the REAL issue is: Should the US recognize the Vatican as a sovereign city-state with the Pope as the head of State, or is it a type of church (which the US does not recognize due to the 1st Amendment’s “establishment clause”)?
NO! and wow
sad days
and i am not even catholic
Daniel (doubledb)
Unless he can part the red sea and make burning trees talk,then i say no…the asshole should not have immunity
No. No one should be given the ability to cover up unlawful acts. The Holy See is still human, so he still has to abide by human law and society.
“I don’t see evidence of that in the comments…. He’s asking if the Pope should be immune from being charged with trying to hide the molestation. The question is plainly written, some people just don’t pay enough attention I guess. It would be like asking if you should give the doorman immunity in a rape case where he knew what was going on inside the room.”
Yeah I know what the question said, and I guess it wasn’t that badly worded; I think I may have just been a bit assuming with how some of these comments read.
-David
RYN: I’m sorry to hear that…
Do you have any cats or other pets?
Immunity? No way. The pope is a freaking human being like the rest of us. He isn’t “holy” and he has no superior connection to God. Not to mention he’s a child molesting sicko. He should be jailed or something.
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAAAT
I agree with everyone else.
You know, we have put leaders of foreign nations on trial before.
Namely Saddam Hussein.
TODAY IRAQ, TOMORROW THE VATICAN
-David
NO.
And if he’s pulling shit like that, he shouldn’t be the Pope.
looks like Dan is doing his best… getting ppl to relate one thing to another. Like streetphotos and a few others have said, this has NOTHING to do with the church/religion. This has to do with legal horsecrap that the head of state has immunity from lawsuit.
People get mislead so easily, no wonder some retard was elected TWICE.
….and that FACE!
No, they should give him immunity cause he’s the Pope. What happened to the term “above the law”- First Paris, then the Pope, when will the madness stop?
My goodness NO.
And I don’t see how this has anything to do with Catholicism vs. Protestantism.
If he committed an illegal act under our jurisdiction, he should be held accountable.
ryc: I’ve not taken time to watch the news for quite some time, but it is very possible my mind is borrowing things from snippets I’ve heard
Heck no.
No.
No.
Heck no.
NO!
Whatever. He still looks creepy.
Yes.
I’m guessing most Catholics wouldn’t agree with this. The Government shouldn’t grant immunity or else it risks alienating part of it’s populace
No. The Federal government should not protect foreign governments from lawsuits by our citizens; they have sufficient protection considering that the Supreme Court takes immediate jurisdiction. Besides, this case needs to be investigated. If the papacy has been protecting child molesters then Roman Catholics need to know about it. Their beliefs are based on a perfect papacy; they need to see that the papacy has made and will make huge mistakes just like any other human institution.
Ew… well, if I ever needed proof to say that man is an asshole, there it is.
of course not.
As gunhero says, d church cant try d church. A pedophile will never go against a protector of pedophiles. The US govt in its eternal panderin just fears angerin d catholics, n their beastly powers.
DAN! Dont you ever post a pic of him ever again! I will have nightmares for the next three months!
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again. That guy looks like the Sith.
It seems like half your readers don’t even read the full post (or even look at the links) before responding to the question being asked. Thus some are convinced the Pope has been accused of child molestation, and the majority have no clue that the Vatican is recognized as a sovereign city-state by the U.S. and the Pope is the head of the State. So of course the U.S. will grant the Pope immunity.
As streetphotos said before me:
“Beyond the sensationalist head line the REAL issue is: Should the US recognize the Vatican as a sovereign city-state with the Pope as the head of State, or is it a type of church (which the US does not recognize due to the 1st Amendment’s “establishment clause”)?”
So should the U.S. unrecognize Vatican City as a sovereign city-state and the Pope as the head of that state and completely break ties with Vatican City? That would look real good on the international level.
I agree with the sith comment, there is a bit of a resemblence. Distant cousins maybe.
The pope is human and should be held accountable if he did indeed help cover up the molestations but status is everything and the establishment clause will probably grant him immunity.
The fact that he’s a Pope should be enough to qualify him as a suspect.
That seems to be in keeping with our foreign policy guide lines. I suppose if we wanted to lean on him a little, we could deny him entry into the U.S.
The Catholic Church is only trying to clean up its own mess without the media getting involved.
Do you realize how many people (boys and girls and others) were molested and worse when the Church was all powerful?
hate the pedophilia thing; but ALSO hate the war against religion. YES immunity; looking forward to any statements from him. THIS should be pressed upon him.
no
Regardless that he’s head of state or what not, If the cover up proves true and that he is responsible for the sexual abuse of three boys, it doesn’t change that he’s the center for corruption if given immunity. He should be held accountable somehow, and if I were catholic, I wouldn’t want him as head of my religion.
“The only true church…” HAH.
One word for the pope.
“Boston.”
This almost makes it look like Our Holy Father abused 3 boys. The rest of the story clarifies that he did not. A seminarian was accused of abusing 3 boys. I am aware of some men who have taken advantage of the problems of the sex abuse scandals in Christ’s Holy church as well as women who have taken advantage of similar scandals in the education department. Hearing their stories makes me doubt that most of the accused abusers were guilty. This is story is sensationalism and Anti Catholic.
From what I have seen in documentaries concerning sexual abuse and how it is handled in the catholic church… I would have to say that in my opinion the catholic church does seem to and keep these affairs within their own walls. To remind my dear catholic friends … this is simply my opinion. Just because I have seen a documentary does not mean that the documentary is acurate or unbiased ( for example Michael Moore’s documentaries)
I am not trying to bash the catholic church.Though I don’t think any person’s authority should be above the law. Innocent victims deserve to be able to know the truth and speak out the truth within these situations.
NO
The “holy see” is a horrid reason.
IT is against our foriegn policy interet is a decent reason, but Iw ant to see them say that to the face of the abused. Only THAT can tell if it will hold up.
sorry but you guys dont even know what you are talking about. The Pope is not accused of any abuse so yea he has immunity. Does president Bush need to go to trial when there are child molesters found in the US? No. But he is the leader of the US so why not? Same deal guys. Yes abuse is absolutely sick and we all should pray for the abused.