August 30, 2007
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Segregation
Public schools are becoming more racially segregated. Here is the link: Link
Racial segregation in schools is when students are separated in different schools by race. The government does not separate them by race. The people tend to move around and segregate themselves.
The Supreme court ruled in June against local efforts to integrate schools. Here is the link: Link
Should it be a goal of the government or any other organization to insure that there is diversity of races in schools?
Comments (100)
I don’t think race will be where the future divisions are. I think they will become more about the color of money then about simple skin color…
i don’t think so
I guess it could be a goal, but I don’t think it’s a responsibility.
Heck no.
Yeah, it could be a goal, but not so much a responsibility.
Nah, not really…
not really
but when the supreme court overruled efforts to integrate in June doesn’t that in a way over turn the purpose of Brown v. Board of Education?
nah..
The gov’t should do more important things like ensuring people have healthcare/insurance and let inviduals choose where they want to send their children/go to school.
No. People should just send their kids to whatever school is closest to them, or if they want to send their kid to another school, they can. Forced integration is just messed up.
Today I shall be efficient and repost what a slightly edited version of what I said in the photoblog:
Segregation is self imposed. White people move themselves into communities full of other white people. I know from personal observation that once Hispanics or blacks move into a neighborhood full of whites, eventually whites flee. Other groups seem to be left with communities full of their own people as well, sometimes also out of personal choice. They realize they won’t be welcome in a white neighborhood. The fact that according to the article the place with the most accelerating segregation will be the South – the same region that so strongly resisted desegregation in the 50s and 60s, is not insignificant. That is a region with strong racial prejudice, although it is not insignificant here in the North as well.
I have a profound personal dislike and distrust for segregation. But unfortunately though now the law dose not mandate segregation, we just don’t have laws against de facto segregation. People do have a choice of where they live and go to school.
People of course almost always choose their prejudice and their interest. Unfortunately the results are often the same as if there was an actual law demanding separation. White students still tend to receive a better education. I know that doesn’t matter to a lot of you who from reading your comments, probably have no problem at all with de facto segregation and want to have the “right” to willingly segregate yourselves and continue choosing your prejudices. But this is not a good thing, not even for yourselves. Every single individual in this society deserves a decent education. If people are going to de facto segregate themselves, AT LEAST there should be normalized standards across the board so that one group does not get better educated than all the others. But that is a bit too close to the “seperate but equal” strawman for me. Because I know from history that it won’t happen.
To answer your question Dan, it is the government’s responsibility to ensure that all individuals REGARDLESS OF RACE obtain a good basic education in schools. Segregation is a harbinger of unequal education.
I thought we’d learned that.
Diversity is important. For fuck’s sake, if you’re going to segregate, don’t do it by skin color, do it by things that actually matter. Like who thinks the ending of The Departed was crap, and who thinks the end of The Departed was perfect.
They should encourage it, but not insure it.
No. I think the government should make sure there that everyone has access to the same opportunity to learn, and local governments should endeavor to make sure the students in each school should have the help they need to make it. In our town of about 200 thousand, we have 6 high schools, and a they are all segregated to a degree, there is a predominantly black school, a mexican school, rich, poor, in between. It all has to do with the districts, and where people live. As far as the government insuring diversity in schools, it is just more liberal bs. People segregate themselves, and that is just how it is. Legislation will never change the hearts of people.
In Evanston IL the school was segregated, but the test scores weren’t. They had the regular classes and the AP classes. How to give equal education is a very hard problem to solve.
ryc: you are more than welcome, dan!
IssyMae makes a good point.
Hell no. In cities the richer white folk live in suburbs and send their kids to high quality (rich) high schools or in same cases private schools and the inner city slum kids (blacks and other minorities) go to inner city schools. The only reason I’d ever want my kid going to a primarily black school is so he can graduate valedictorian.
While I do think that diversity is a wonderful thing, I do not think that the government should step in and force School districts to gerrymander their bus system so that the schools are more racially integrated.
As this (and countless other studies) pointed out, people tend to racially segregate themselves. This is not just whites moving away from others, but also latinos, blacks, asians, etc. tending to move where there is already a number of people of their same ethnic group. Whether this is a good or bad thing is another issue. (personally, I think that we should do soemthing about this, but forcing schools to essentially import diversity from other districts causes more problems than it solves, and is expensive to boot.”
I disagree with the poster above who says that it is only whites “fleeing” that is causing this problem. That’s bullshit. Yes, there are some idiots who still think that melanin matters and they will run when people with more of it show up, but this is a small minority of people. (and this minority goes across color lines. my friend just moved to NYC and no one in his neighborhood will talk to him because he is white). I live ins a suburb of a pretty large city. Now, this suburb has been (and still largely is) primarily white. Recently, because of a new interstate that runs near my town, we’ve had a lot of people from the city move out to our suburb, including a signifigant (and in my opinion welcome) number of people from a non-white ethnic group. This influx of people caused a building spree in the area and it turned out that most of the new residents ended up living in these newly minted developments because they were 1)Nicer than a lot of the places we had in the area, and these people had MONEY being from the city 2) A lot of people who grow up in my town stay in my town, so the older houses were occupied. What did this cause? racially segregated (for the most part) neighborhoods, and because of this elementary schools.
There is nothing wrong with this. Yes, there are some idiots who sit in the diner and complain about how the town is turning into a ghetto, but people recognize them as idiots and avoid them. My neighbors are Vietnamese (first generation) and they are one of the few non-white families in my court. And yet they are welcomed and accepted by nearly everyone there. Racism exists, but it is far rarer than many will admit.
Diversity is something that should be celebrated and encouraged, but it should not be something that is forced to happen. Not only is busing students in from other districts expensive, but it causes a lot of problems (Town rivalries being just the tip of the iceberg). So are you suggesting that the government force the town to only sell x number of houses to a certain ethnic group? And then force said ethnic group to move there even if they don’t desire to?
I hope not.
Diversity is a wonderful thing….growing up in a small (white) town then moving to a town east of TO, I was pleasantly surprisd by the mix of cultures and races…and I am pleased to say that while my kids do observe that there are kids that look different than they do, they’ve never said or reacted in any negative way. And I’m glad for that.
Have a great long weekend, Dan!
*HUGS*
A goal yes. An obligation no.
I am SHOCKED to hear people say that it shouldn’t be a goal to have diversity. Don’t you want to learn about other cultures first hand?
These statements really appall me. What year is this?
I don’t think that the government should force people together or feel that it’s its responsibility to eliminate segregation if its not something the government established. If the government had enforced and created the segregation, then it should dissolve it, but if the segregation happened through natural circumstances, then leave it be. You’ll get more trouble than you wanted by forcefully moving people around. It has nothing to do with racism but with the quality of the location and the school. People move to certain areas because of their financial state and their desire to dwell in the area, and schools can play a large role in choosing a place to live.
I’m all about cultural diversty–I hate it when there’s any hint of segregation or racism. Still, there has to be another way to do things instead of uprooting kids. The government’s doing a noble thing in wanting to bring cultural and racial variety into kids’ everyday lives, but I don’t think this the way to do it.
If they did rearrange schools, you can only hope that the better qaulities of school are what spreads, but, more than likely, the negative aspects will thrive. Instead of having a couple of bad applea in the barrel, the entire barrel goes bad.
Leave well enough alone.
“A goal yes. An obligation no. I am SHOCKED to hear people say that it shouldn’t be a goal to have diversity. Don’t you want to learn about other cultures first hand? These statements really appall me. What year is this? “ EarthsAzureLight
I am appalled that people care more about diversity and “learning about other cultures firsthand” than the simple freedom of choosing where your kids go to school!
There are more important things than diversity and more important things than learning about other cultures.
What are they going to do, redistric until the schools are crowded to the point of absurdity? Oh, or even better, force people to move?
This is inconvenient, unrealistic, and stupid.
There’s a big difference in refusing someone the right to go to the school of their choice based on skin color and forcing someone to go to a school for the same reason. Diversity is excellent–a wonderful tool to open minds and broaden horizons. But you can’t force it. Either we will or we won’t. We do or we don’t. Considering that it’s all about skin color and not about grades anymore…
No, it’s not the government’s job to force students to go anywhere because of racial/clinal differences.
I think the ending of The Departed was perfect…however Leo’s head should have bled more.
segregation is a social choice…Even if the government doesn’t do it, people naturally break themselves up by ‘those who they are like.’ It’s not racism…its just people being people.
People should be able to live where the heck the want, and go to school with their neighbors and friends. Even if it doesn’t look right. If they’re doing it themselves, then who has the right to intervene?
The biggest issue is that all schools need to have standard education. If blacks are push themselves into poor schools with no funding with horrible teachers, that is a problem of society and will maintain the inequalities of race.
Nonetheless, the majority always has the advantage. If a race wants to be a majority so they have a better edge on their work, I guess there’s no problem with that. But that will keep the fire of racial discrimination burning, since one of the ways to reduce discrimination is through contact. Not the best way, mind you, but one of the ways.
These problems will never end.
-David
People go to schools where they live. I agree with Redhairedcelt. There is a difference in not allowing some to go to a school b/c of their race if that is the school closest to them and schools not being diverse b/c of other reasons.
“Diversity is important. For fuck’s sake, if you’re going to segregate, don’t do it by skin color, do it by things that actually matter. Like who thinks the ending of The Departed was crap, and who thinks the end of The Departed was perfect. “8/30/2007 10:22 AM Drakonskyr
Yep. Segregation should be based on important stuff.
No. People should go to whatever school they want.
A lot of people are understandibly less comfortable around other races, because due to today’s society, some people don’t know when words or actions could be percieved as racism. Different races DO want to be segregated to an extent. It’s only when people are forcing the segregation onto others that it becomes a problem.
“I am appalled that people care more about diversity and “learning about other cultures firsthand” than the simple freedom of choosing where your kids go to school!
There are more important things than diversity and more important things than learning about other cultures.”
That’s entirely opinion. Diversity is more important than one usually imagines. For example, take the extreme – take a completely segregated society.
Have fun mixing races then once everyone leaves school. All workplaces will be of one race, there’ll be clubs unofficially designated for one race, etc.
Look, separation doesn’t appeal to me. But if that were the case, I’d argue that the USA might consider splitting into five or six different nations for each race.
-David
nah. It was important for the government to step in and integrate when segregation was being forced on people. However, now that we have the choice to go to any school we choose, why should the goverment worry about helping out with integration. Freedom is being able to do what we want and if we (meaning society) choose (consciously or not) to segregate ourselves, we should be allowed to.
Should the governement force integration between the nerds and the jocks in the schools? Or between the preppy girls and the tomboys? Nah!
Let it do what it does.
“I am appalled that people care more about diversity and “learning about other cultures firsthand” than the simple freedom of choosing where your kids go to school!
There are more important things than diversity and more important things than learning about other cultures”
I’m not talking about moving kids around from school to school. I’m talking about actively encouraging diversity, there are plenty of other ways to do it than forcing children into certain schools.
Direshark:
Sure, diversity is important. But when it comes to what the government should be doing, I would have to say that they have more important things and more pressing things to worry about than ensuring that schools are “diverse”.
“Should it be a goal of the government or any other organization to insure that there is diversity of races in schools?” Is what was asked. And yes, it should be a goal to have diversity in schools. I never mentioned anything about forcing people to other school districts.
No.
Oh, also, I’m not argueing that diversity is the number one item that the government should be taking care of as far as schools (which I think is the quality our educational system provides, which is actually one of the worlds worst, especially in the area of Mathematics), but I feel it is too important to be ignored.
No. That’s called AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, and it’s the WORST, most racist thing, EVER!
Look. In my school, the black kids have cliques, the Hispanic kids have cliques, and the white kids have cliques. Even the “minority” kids (because we have more blacks and whites and just about as many Hispanics as whites) like the Asians form their own clique. Just leave them alone, everyone’s happy with it. In most circumstances, you won’t get shot for hanging out with someone of a different race.
The government can do whatever… it ultimately won’t succeed. Even in the most diverse schools the students themselves impose segregation. The whites stay with whites, The blacks with blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, ect. And it breaks down even more into cliques geeks, nerds, goths, ect. It seems to be human nature.
earthsazurelight:
okay, I see your points and i agree for the most part.
I don’t think diversity is (or should be anyway) the purpose of the education system. Schools shouldn’t have to meet quotas for students or staff/faculty regarding race or whatever; this isn’t a McDonald’s commercial.
mandalou89: Glad I could clear that up =)
Oh, I am also against affirmative action (and I’m black, imagine that)
I KNEW IT. No wonder I’m going to a white school and all my friends are going to a beaner school!!!
WTF is with that!
captain_jaq said: “No. That’s called AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, and it’s the WORST, most racist thing, EVER!”
Affirmative may be justified take from one give to another
The goal is to be unified take my hand be my brother
The payment silenced the masses sanctified by oppression
Unity took a back seat sliding further into regression
One oh One the only way is One
I feel angry I feel helpless, want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone, don’t try and change my mind
Society blind by color why hold down one to raise another
Discrimination now on both sides seeds of hate blossom further
The world is heading for mutiny, when all we want is unity
We may rise and fall, but in the end we meet our fate together
One oh One the only way is One
I feel angry I feel helpless, want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone, don’t try and change my mind
“One” by Creed
I am against affirmative action too. But if you have all the blacks going to a poor school simply because of pressure and all the whites going to the big rich school with all the advantages with better teachers, facilities and textbooks, well haha, no shit why the kids from the “black” school will get lower SAT scores! I would support integration in this case.
But if the education value is the same and not really different from this school to that, then it wouldn’t matter as much.
-David
Direshark: Agree there. It’s unfortunate that the traditionally “White” neighborhoods have better quality schools. My highschool was ranked in the top 5 in Ohio though, and the school was very integrated (almost 30% Asian), but it was only about 1% black.
you can’t legislate harmony. i agree with many others who don’t think the government should force integration but rather ensure that educational standards are held in all states and regions of the country.
i saw a report back in 2005 that ranked the states by their high school education: Vermont was #1, Virginia- the only southern state in the top ten- was #7 (just showing my roots:)), the lowest ranking states were the southwestern states with New Mexico being #50. There’s quite a disparity in educational achivement and the trend is that the New England and Eastern Seaboard states excel where everyone else fails. I know from growing up in Virginia that our state has its own standard tests that are given on individual subjects throughout schooling years. We call them SOLs. I think more states should pick up on these tests so problems can be caught earlier on in each child’s education. From what I understand, many states just have some high school exam that must be taken and passed to graduate. I argue that by that point it’s too late to help exiting seniors. Rather, if a school district knows by its test scores how, say, their middle school English classes are doing, they have room and time to adjust their approaches to teaching and better ensure that the students who tested poorly are getting better attention.
As an added benefit (and anyone who has ever taken final exams will have to agree) if you pass your SOLs advanced you automatically get a perfect score on your would-be final exam in that subject and you are exempt from having to come in and participate on the day of the exam. Do you know how many exams I got to opt out of during my school years?! A bunch- it rocked!
We all saw what a flop busing to acheive racial desegregation was in the 70s. It caused a mass exodus from the public school system and left both rural and inner city schools worse off. The government should stay out of what is simply a human trend.
Instead of worrying about integration of skin color I’d rather worry about integrating equal education.
my high school had about 15% white students, tops. the rest was a mix of asian, black, hispanic. it was the top of our district, which was one of the more underfunded and lower-rated districts in california. in other words, the school was the top of the bottom. i don’t think it would make the school better if more white kids were transferred in. additional money to make our funds equal to the top schools certainly would, though.
America is going backwards on rights.
It’s not just race.
In 5 years we wont be able to do ANYTHING.
No, I don’t think so. People generally just go to the school closest to them. And a lot of people of the same race just happen to live really close to each other. It’s a shame, but it’s just how things are.
RYC: Thank you, Dan. (:
if they’re doing it to themselves then no.
RYC: haha, you’re welcome. Free of charge, by the way.
No, and it’s impossible to control. If people want to live and go to school with people of their own colors, they will find a way. People can move. Not to mention bussing just isn’t practical. Also, some areas pay higher taxes to fund their local schools. Why should their children be sent to other schools and other children be sent to theirs? That hardly seems fair.
A goal, yes. Absolutely.
white people are bad, we should get everyone together to hold hands and sing cumbia(except the white people of course who are racist and bad) then go out and ethnicly cleanse the world by killing all the racists, and by racists i mean whites. everyone knows, there has never been a racist black, or asian or hispanic, thats just common sense, in fact im pretty sure there was a study that showed that geneticly the less melonin you have the more likely you are to BE racist, in other words, the whiter you are the more racist you are(albinos are SOOOO racist).
ok ok ok, that was a joke, a bit of sarcasm. kind of looks like something certain people on here say though huh? *cough*eleventh post*cough* not to name any names…
seriously though, its up to individuals to associate with whomever they choose to, whether they decide based on race, social status, financial standing, whatever, thats for the individual to decide, and while the government should in every way accomidate and provide for integration it would be overstepping its bounds to FORCE it.(and no, not just because the evil racist white community doesnt want the little black or hispanic boy running around their neighborhood, but because the individual may not want to BE there. if they DO want to be there, they have every right to be and those rights should be protected, but if they dont, they shouldnt be forced)
The high school I go to is pretty diverse (only about 40% or so are white while the rest are made of minority races). But our school has two cafeterias, and students actually refer to them as the “white” cafeteria and the “black” cafeteria, of which the reason is obvious. So whether or not the government puts effort into integrating schools to be more racially diverse, the school/students still find ways to segregate.
No.
Certain racial and socioeconomic groups put a stronger emphasis on education than others.
All the money and integration in the world is not going to make a difference if PARENTS dont take responsibility for their children’s education.
I couldn’t tell you. My high-school is incredibly diverse. 17 Different languages are spoken there.
Yes. Diversity is importnat, and given the practical educational disadvantage of non-diverse schools outlined in the linked article, the government should give weight towards diversity.
Of coures, it would be ridiculous in anyone’s minds to set “diversity” as the sole goal or even as a primarily considered objective. Achieving diversity, however, should be a tangible element in the overall rebruic of educational policies.
Diversity is a decidedly good thing. In promoting inter-racial understanding, it is as important for early exposure of children to cultural & ethnic diversity as it is to MLK Jr’s legacy and the historic relevancy of the Civil War, the 13th-15th Amedendments, and JFK’s widdening of immigration policies during the 1960′s. Even without mandated Affirmative action, why do you suppose do Colleges (as the UC system of California) still stirve to maintain some semblance of ideological and cultural diversity?
sahel578
Certain racial and socioeconomic groups put a stronger emphasis on education than others.
It’s more than this. Financial security leads to a lot of little advantages that accumulate into big differences. The raw resources for books, museum trips, and general enrichment makes a difference. The money for SAT courses and general tutoring courses really do help. Not having to work part-time jobs in high school or full-time jobs in college– well, just add up the amount of free hours per week. Generally: Being well off or financially secure affords an enviornment conducive for and nuturing towards academic success.
ioneka
its up to individuals to associate with whomever they choose to, whether they decide based on race, social status, financial standing, whatever, thats for the individual to decide, and while the government should in every way accomidate and provide for integration it would be overstepping its bounds to FORCE it.(
1.) Ought racial harmony (or at the very lest: racial understanding) be a social goal?
2.) Is having a pluralism of view, values, and ideas a good thing?
The linked article also outlined practical motivations for diversity [irrespective of 1.) and 2.)]
Fryderykk
So whether or not the government puts effort into integrating schools to be more racially diverse, the school/students still find ways to segregate.
Granted, but you would have to admit that voluntary segreagation within the school is different and distinct from de facto segregation at the school or district level.
Racial and cultural interaction still occurs inter-clique. There will bound to be many many students who have a handful of friends that cross racial barriers. One must also take into account involuntary mingling during classroom activities. Students don’t only learn by consciencly buddying up: Observation, listening, and intermingling with a pluralism of ideas and cultures also really further understanding.
jada marnew
Instead of worrying about integration of skin color I’d rather worry about integrating equal education
This was the thrust of the linked article’s thesis: Racial integration to help maintain equal education. We all know how “Seperate but Equal” turned out.
I don’t think kids who would otherwise go to a perfectly decent school should be forced to take a 45-minute bus ride to some other school for the sake of diversity.
But if the inner-city schools (or any other schools) aren’t doing a good job of educating their children, parents should have the option of sending them to charter schools.
They have school boundaries for a reason (so you do not bus children for hours getting them to school; so tax dollars go to the proper school, etc.). People pick to live in places where the schools are that they want their children to go to are. If white people want their children to go to a school with more black people then move to that area. If black peopele want their children to go to school with more Mexicans then move to that area. Do not bus children around all over town until there is an equal amount of each race. Just my opinion.
no
forced integration is still kind of like forced segregation – it’s government mandated and the people have little choice where they, or in this case their kids, will end up. i understand the intention, which is more towards diversity, but it’s the same type of govt action. some kids and families don’t have a choice where they live and where the kids go to school, so maybe some knowledge on urbanized cities (not urban style cities like they’re trying to make the suburbs) can be shared with the public by the government, if this is what they have aimed to do. if i lived in bad areas of the city, i would feel blessed that my child would be able to go to a better school for his/her future. i’m not sure of the backlash, but i’m not too positive the govt is sure either. there’s a lot of pieces to this – i’m not sure what the “right” answer is. there’s a lot of gray, nothing is rarely ever pure contrast when it comes to these things.
Being well off or financially secure affords an enviornment conducive for and nuturing towards academic success
But thats not always the only factor. Many asian families, especially immigrant families, do not have these vast financial resources, yet their children still excel in school, often far surpassing children of privilege.
True, segregation is usually done by the people themselves. However, it would be nice if all race try to get along and understand each other where they come from. In order to execute this goal, we have to put an end to segregation and endorse diversity. This does not mean I want the government forcing diversity. Instead, they should suggest it. No one can force what you don’t want. The people have to do it willingly themselves for this to work.
And I’ve got to admit, when I read DMV saying “Diversity is important”, I almost died of shock.
it should be…they shouldnt enforce it…they should encourage it. and if they are, theyre doing a really bad job of it.
sahel578
But thats not always the only factor. Many asian families, especially immigrant families, do not have these vast financial resources, yet their children still excel in school, often far surpassing children of privilege.
I know– I grew up with naggy Asian parents =P
More seriously: Correspondingly, many Aisan families make personal sacrifices for higher incomes. This indirectly leads to Asian kids growing up in high middle income to higher-middle income neighborhoods with at least average high schools. This, of course, goes with the general Asian emphasis on academics.
I attended a public high school within 30 miles of L.A. The school demographics was about 50% Asian, 45% Latino, and 5% “Others.” Most of the kids there came from middle to lower-middle income families. In terms of individual academics, the school ran the gamut from half a dozen of CalTech, Stanford, and Ivy Leauge kids to about two dozen drop-outs. What became eye-opening, and eventually the norm, was the racial composition of our honors and Advanced Placement courses. With the exceptions of about five or six white and hispanic kids, the same 60 Asian faces showed up time and time again. It was a merit-based distribution, but it was best termed as a “de facto segregation.”
Of note : Our valedictorian was a Stanford-bound hispanic guy. Just as much as I suspect his success was due to personal dilligence and him being flat-out smarter than the rest of us, he benifited from a more privilaged family. For instance, I knew his uncle was the head of the econ department at USC.
If people are segregating themselves, it shouldn’t be the government’s problem. If there is the ability to be diverse and it’s not because “like sticks to like” (which really does seem to happen in big cities), it shouldn’t be anyone’s problem. Otherwise people will be complaining they’re being forced to move or go to a school far away.
I notice some of the genius commenters on here have completely missed my ultimate point. Everyone is a little bit racist, as the song says. That white people are not racist anymore but everyone else is not, is as some other commenter so pithily said, “bullshit”. I have personal experience with white flight, I’ve seen it with my own eyes, which is why I noted that as an example. Doesn’t mean that doesn’t happen the other way around. White people are racist, and so are non white people. That is all crap we KNOW. However that racism has a historical PATTERN. Heaven forbid someone should point out the obvious, and the historical. My point was not that white people are SO BAD.
My point is that everyone has racism or hatred in their hearts. The question is what should the gov’t do about it when it affects schools and public education. Which is related to where people live.
Since some of you people need to be directed to the most important section of what I had to say in response to the question, let me cut it and paste it here again. Read it slowly. You might absorb it better. See if you can find a dictionary for the big words.
“People of course almost always choose their prejudice and their interest. Unfortunately the results are often the same as if there was an actual law demanding separation. White students still tend to receive a better education. I know that doesn’t matter to a lot of you who from reading your comments, probably have no problem at all with de facto segregation and want to have the “right” to willingly segregate yourselves and continue choosing your prejudices. But this is not a good thing, not even for yourselves. Every single individual in this society deserves a decent education. If people are going to de facto segregate themselves, AT LEAST there should be normalized standards across the board so that one group does not get better educated than all the others. But that is a bit too close to the “seperate but equal” strawman for me. Because I know from history that it won’t happen.
To answer your question Dan, it is the government’s responsibility to ensure that all individuals REGARDLESS OF RACE obtain a good basic education in schools. Segregation is a harbinger of unequal education. ”
I go to a Highschool. People segregate themselves. The “latino” and black “ghetto” culture seems to keep to itself. I can agree that we’re not just seperated by grades. I don’t know how to express the realization here. I take almost all honors, and there are only 3 (max) students of African or Latin American descent. I can’t explain it without sounding racist, I’m not, but it seems the culture that most of the black or latino students follow is the rap/hip-hop gang type culture. I’m not completely sure of the demographics, but we’re balanced 50-50. 50% white, 50% minority.
No. When I worked among the African-American community in North Carolina, there was a general consensus that integration was one of the worst ideas to happen in education reform- from both their experiences and their childrens’ (we interviewed original members of integration and the early race riots).
No. They can’t force kids to go to a different school just because there isn’t enough of a race there.
Did that fat idiot really just quote Creed?
Hah!
I live in the county that brought forth the lawsuit against our school district. No longer enforcing the racial percentages at our public schools are going to create widely segregated schools. I would hate for my school to become mainly one race simply because of the neighborhood it is in, and most students I’ve talked to agree with me. I don’t know how the supreme court ruling will start to effect me personally, but there will be some major changes in the next two years that can compltely redo our school system, and no one I know whats that. I wrote a huge entry about this back in july.
my school is 89% caucasian, i think. we used to have a few more “minorities” but then they moved all the ELL kids to one school for the whole district. it is sort of sad, but i also don’t care. i think sometimes people who are in the minority– racially, sexually, socially, whatever– make much more of a big deal about it than they need to.
NO
It’s not the government’s or organizations’ job. It’s up to individuals to be willing to learn/interact with people of different races. That shouldn’t be something people are forced to do but it should be something people want to do.
Ha, our public school’s convocation had a speaker who did nothing but talk about the differences and how you need to teach differently to and expect less from certain groups. Everyone was thinking are we going backwards now.
Forgot to say she happened to be an African-American…
I was in high school in the South when we were forced to integrate. We had many fights. Cops were called. Tear gas was used. Did it help to integrate? I don’t know. Probably not for me… but maybe the poor kids finally had a better school and better teachers and a chance at a better life. Someone needs to break the cycle of poverty.
if racial slurs stop around the world, then anything can happen. but as far as the government is concerned…they have more “better” things to do to worry about little ol’ us. if they can’t stop the war in iraq…how are they going to stop racial segregation?
I grew up with busing and forced desegregation, and it was a pain in the ass, but I do think that … I hate to admit it … but it worked.
Should the government do it again? My gut reaction is NO. This is a completely different time and environment.
“ioneka
its up to individuals to associate with whomever they choose to, whether they decide based on race, social status, financial standing, whatever, thats for the individual to decide, and while the government should in every way accomidate and provide for integration it would be overstepping its bounds to FORCE it.(
1.) Ought racial harmony (or at the very lest: racial understanding) be a social goal?
2.) Is having a pluralism of view, values, and ideas a good thing?
The linked article also outlined practical motivations for diversity [irrespective of 1.) and 2.)]“
1) yes, but it should not be mandated. as i said, any student has the RIGHT to go to any school, but the moment you FORCE them, you only breed resentment and you hurt your cause. so, social goal(in that individuals form society and this should be the goal of that society) yes, government mandate, no.
2) that depends on what you are talking about. if you mean individuals within society having different views, and ideas(i wont discuss values as that would make this a LOOONG comment) causing a pluralism within society, definately, this is what spurs us on with progress. if you mean an individual with an understanding of different ideas and views, of course it helps us to better coincide with each other. if you mean an individual HOLDING different views and ideas(ie if i were to claim two conflicting views or ideas as my own… say, “i believe in creationist evolution”).. no.a person that is always in contradiction with himself will always be in contradiction with society.
going back to 1) i will illustrate my point. say i decided to get married. i can marry anyone i want to, white, asian, hispanic, black, it doesnt matter. however, should the government have the right to come to me and say. “im sorry sir, you will have to break off your engagement because your fiance is white, we have selected a nice hispanic girl for you to marry for the cause of racial diversity.” what has been done in this scenario is to instill resentment toward the “replacement” fiance, the government that initiated it, and the “social cause” that inspired it. while the scale is different in this case, the principal, the freedom of choice,or, the freedom of association, is the same. i will repeat again, so as not to be misunderstood, if any student, minority or otherwise(and in the case of minors, the students parents) wish to attend a school other than their default institution. i see no reason, within reason(i mean i wouldnt want to relocate someone from new york to california just so they can take surfing as an elective) that they should be denied that right. however i feel equally strong, that if that minority or majority student wants to remain within their home neighborhood and attend school with their friends than they should not be denied that either.
i dont think the problem is who goes where, i believe the problem is the schools and the teachers. if the “black”* schools arent performing as well,(and basicly to my understanding what it is saying is that they are underfunded and understaffed) as the “white”* schools then the solution is not to fire up the busses and start carting people all over God’s green earth in search of a better school. the solution is to fix the problems at the problem schools.
1) pay teachers a wage that is fair for what they do. make it performance based.
2) dont have waiting lists of teachers who are wanting to work at the “best” schools, hire these teachers into the school SYSTEM and send them to the schools that need them
3) find an easy efficient way to deal with “safety” issues before school starts, while kids are in school, spend more time educating them than investigating them.
4) treat kids like what they are, little people. dont put them into storage, dont give up on them because they can be difficult, give them some values for craps sake.
5) teach them to value other people more than they value themselves, teach them to value themselves highly.
these are just a few things that would largely improve the school systems if the “bleeding hearts” whould stop playing blame whitey long enough to actually do something constructive(but then again, what would they have to bitch about if things improved?)
*i dont actually believe there are any such things as “white” or “black” schools, but since everyone seems to need a racial label on things i am speaking a language that will be understood.
Education is something NOT addressed in our constitution; it is a state and usually VERY local issue. As such, it ALWAYS brings about much controversy. WHY ? because this is where we, I mean ME – I have to get involved!~ there is no one else to blame on these levels. This is uncomfortable.
So lets get more basic…..what can we do to help integrate our LIVES? have inter-racial friendships, clubs, etc? This is the point.
The ONLY reason the feds were called in was the unwanted ENFORCEMENT of unequality.
There must come people from the “majority” people who are respectable; there must be people from the “minority” who respect them, and inherit various skills, etc. This happens on a minor scale.
HOW DO WE MAKE THIS A CULTURAL NORM?
I think NOT through endless legislation…..but we CAN work on it…
Charter schools, homeschoools, many non denom churches are more diverse these days….service projects…..neighborhood projects…..etc
ideas?
More seriously: Correspondingly, many Aisan families make personal sacrifices for higher incomes.
Exactly my point. Asian parents tend to take personal responsibility for the success of their family as well as the education of their children.
I feel that underachieving children have parents, that for whatever reason, do not take that same responsibility for their children’s academic success. These parents simply send their children to school and leave it up to the school 100%.
I really believe that if all parents had to participate within their child’s school, there would be a massive increase in performance.
NO. There should, however, be diversity of household income. Damn rich, snobby schools piss me off.
no
It’s a wasted effort. It’s in human nature to gravitate toward people that look and carry themselves the way that you do. At the core of our being we fear that which we do not know or understand. That’s just the way it is.
In schools yes, but if they naturally separate, can you force people to be friends? It sound like the gov. would be getting too involved for “the pursuit of happiness”