October 26, 2007
-
Thank God For Dead Soldiers
The father of a troop that was killed in Iraq is suing Westboro Baptist Church because they protested his son’s funeral.
The members of the church picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They picket the funerals because they say the “deaths are punishment for the country’s tolerance of homosexuality.”
The issue at stake is whether the members of the church are covered by the First Amendment. The judge instructed the jurors to decide “whether the defendant’s actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection.” Here is the link: Link
Should the protest of a funeral be covered under the First Amendment?
Comments (155)
As much as I don’t like phelps. I can’t say that he has any less rights to speak his mind than anybody else.
I’m opposed to laws that restrict ones speech.
The answers to the judge’s questions are yes, yes, and yes.
In my opinion, allowing those awful people to picket encourages grieving citizens to homicide.
…Which in this case may or may not be a good thing.
yes but no. .
That is sick, and I highly doubt that those people holding the signs are going to be the closest people seated next to God. God is not a god of hate. Disgusting.
Crazy. Some of those churches are scary.
westboro? yes, they should not be protected by the first amendment. they were going to come to VT to protest, and luckily, a radio announcer bribed them not to come by giving them an hour on his show.
How can you protest death?
No – it’s an abuse of the first amendment and falls in the category of harassment. (disclaimer: This is my opinion only. I am not presenting an argument for debate. *cough-huginn-cough*)
i mean, no, they shouldn’t be protected.
I also think this is a form of harassment and not protected by the first amendment. A funeral is not a public forum, some privacy should guard it. That’s no place for a protest of any kind, much less the disgusting and hateful displays by this so called church.
I am much to emotionally attached to the military to objectively comment on this post. However, I will!
I don’t care what the first ammendment says…the constitution’s goal is to protect freedom and the pursuit of happiness. How is protesting dead soldiers any type of happy? It’s rude, disrespectful, and heartless. The bible says to love all and not to judge. I think Westboro Baptist Church should get out of the protesting business and into the bible reading business.
If I had my way, anyone who said anything bad, mean, negative, rude, etc. about a soldier would be forced to join the military and put in their 4 years!!!
as much as i hate phelps and westboro, they have as much a right to do this as nazis and the klan have to rally. nobody likes it.
yes, it should be protected, but i’ll be damned if i ever agree with them
I think it is in very poor taste.
I thought there was a law against protesting funerals. Maybe it is just a state law.
can people be anymore unsenctive?
its a funeral. u dont picket funerals.
how come nothing like this ever happens in my town? if i was attending a funeral id personlly kick the ass of anyone picketing it. that is retarted and disguesting.
(are u seeing reason for my t shirt yet?)
These are the kinds of things that give Christians a bad name. Man, that really irks me…
I agree with Squeaks… a funeral should be held as a private forum. It’s none of that church’s business.
Westboro Baptist Church is full of nutjobs. It’s about time someone fought back. I hope the judge throws the book at them.
No, sue them for every penny they have.
With that kind of instruction from the judge, how could the westboro folks have any kind of snowball’s chance? It appears they violated all those criteria.
If you’re protesting at a funeral, you’re just disrespecting the dead and you’re really not going to get your point across. You should leave the morning families in peace.
A cemitary is a public place, but it is supposed to be a quiet, private place. It is set appart from the rest of the public area. This chruch violated that. It is abuse of the first amendment, if they want to protest fine, but there are many other places to do so.
But if the government were to restrict the places people can protest, well its the top of a very steep hill that leads to not being able to protest at all.
The church wasn’t right to protest at the funeral. But we can’t say that they can’t protest there.
The only thing that I can think of that we can do to prevent this in the future is to make another catigory alogn with Private and Public. A place that the public can go and have limited privacy. A cemitary would be the public’s private property and then no one could protest there.
I don’t think they should be sued. They should be bludgeoned to near-death (or death; I mean, would anyone really give a shit if these people were dead??).
Ugh. You’ve stumped me here, Dan. That picture just makes me feel sick to my stomach. While I think that even offensive speech should be protected by the First Ammendment, living in a society with limited government (which I insist is the best form of government) requires that people excercise some SELF-government. Who would do this to a grieving family? . . .Not even to mention how this makes Christians look. Or I should distinguish and say “Christians.”
O.K. here’s what I’m thinking: Individual communities could come up with ways to protect against these sort of demonstrations. Not a federal mandate.
That’s funny, by the way, saintvi…
these people are crazy.
no! and it’s about time somebody sued those morons.
They have the same right to free speech as anyone else. Even if they don’t know a thing about common decency. Clearly The Bible is being warped here. It’s unfortunate that these wingnuts have to impinge upon grieving families.
“whether the defendant’s actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous, and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection.” I would say that holding a sign like the one in the photo would be highly offensive to a reasonable person and therefore not protected by the First Amendment.
These wackos need to be stopped. They are harrassing people. Soldiers funerals are not public events, they are private mourning for the family and friends. Only in sick, warped minds does homosexuality have anything to do with soldiers dying. How would they feel if, at the funeral of one their own, people protested with signs saying “Thank God for dead wackos”
Those are Patriot Riders shielding the mourners from the protesters, by the way. I’m proud to have an uncle who is a Patriot Rider.
instead of suing them and possibly limiting free speech, why don’t all members of the military when they find out a loved one has died. all take out restraining orders against westboro. that way if westboro does show up, they can’t go near the cemetery and have to protest in a different place.
According to the instructions given by the judge, I could happily say ‘no’.
No, that’s harrassment, not free speach. It’s disgusting and immoral. If I had been the father, I would have opened fire on the sonsabitches.
No. People are entitled to have a funeral environment where their family can mourn and peacefully put them to rest. Violating the rights of a family who just lost a loved one and crashing a funeral is really frikkin low. Choose somewhere else to make your political statements!
Westboro “Baptist” “Church” (which only has about 90 members) has several lawyers among its ranks. Fred Phelps was a lawyer before he went “pastor,” and several of his progeny also went to law school. They’ve been sued before, and always seem to wiggle out of it.
(Anyone who’s never heard of these pseudo-Christian bigots before, do some research on them. It’s scary stuff. They all live in a walled-in compound together, like a bunker… and most of the church members are related to Fred Phelps through marriage or blood.)
My answer to your question. The protest of a funeral IS protected by the First Amendment. However, said protest is not protected AT the funeral. They can protest the existence of the funeral, but they should not be allowed to do so THERE.
There is precedent for this: anti-abortion protesters have to be 100 feet away from the Planned Parenthood building they’re protesting, for example.
I thought a person who has died was supposed to be treated with dignity? Aren’t you supposed to bury a body as a resting place for the soul? Obviously these people have no regard for the their God’s law and the respect for the dead. I’d laugh if these people were targets of terrorism within the United States. I’d have zero sympathy if any of them died, especially that teenager in that picture. She’s at the age where she is well aware of with is right and wrong. Why the hell isn’t she in school?
“He’s fighting for a nation who has made God a No. 1 enemy.”
No, we are fighting for a democracy over there, not their God. We are not allowed to sympathize for their religious beliefs, just respect them. The insurgents are the ones who fight for their God with Jihad. Obviously they have never read the Code of Conduct, LOAC, Geneva Convention, etc.
This church disgusts me. This is why I am not religious.
I’m posting again! I’m pretty sure that, if I saw someone holding a sign that said this, and I wasn’t at work, I’d grab the thing out of their hands and rip it shreds! (As long as it wasn’t a muscular 6-foot-tall man wearing black leather and a bunch of tattoos holding the sign…If I did that to him, I’d probably end up in a bit of pain!)
This picture really bothers me!
You know it’s difficult to say “These people should not be able to protest like that” because like many ppl before me have said, it still comes down to free speech. What I find ironic, is the very idea that they would mock the military which in turn protects thier rights to free speech. Let’s not even get into the biblical doctrine and how completely outta whack that is! I think what those church pple were doing is wrong, and that there needs to be a moral boundary that doesn’t get crossed. I am very interested to see how the courts rule on this one. IT is a toughy!
By the way I am not in agreement on their position on “God punishing” I think that the judgement will come, but not from us humans, I do not condon homosexuality, I do believe that to be biblically wrong and an abomination in God’s eyes. But I do not see what that had to do with the funeral of that young man, and his being honored in his death for his service to our country. Uggghhh, ugly stuff.
it comes down to whether or not a funeral is a private or a public ceremony, i would think.
i served in the military. i’ve been to funerals. i’ve heard first hand stories from soldier’s who came back from war with less than they went with. for anyone (especially a group of people that claim they follow in Jesus’ footsteps) to protest with hate at a place & during a time of grief & mourning where privacy should be given is just hateful. and hateful is not something that Jesus teaches us. tolerance. love. kindness. that’s what Jesus teaches us. those soldiers who have died did so for us. for our freedom to protest. for our freedom to dream & go after that dream. showing anything other than honor at their funeral is vile & disgusting.
i can understand someone wanting to protest what they feel is wrong… however, i do not feel they should be allowed to do so if it interrupts the freedom of the other person to mourn in privacy. there’s a fine line between the two – but there IS a line.
I don’t think it should be allowed, but at the same time those brave soliders died fighting for things such as freedom of speech – to take that away disrespects their sacrifice. I’m just glad thoughtful, sensible, responsible and caring people like Patriot Guard Riders who also utilize their freedom of speech and right to protest to protect the grieving families. Freedom of speech means you can say what you feel, but doesn’t mean I have to agree, listen or prevent me from stating the opposite. Just my two cents.
This should not be covered under the first amendment. In the bible there is nothing that says homosexuality is wrong.
Dear Jesus,
Save me from your followers!
P.s. Re: your comment on my blog: well, duhhh! And we are sure he has driven by the place in spite of his saying that he wouldn’t come here without our knowing about it.
TGIF!
Not if the funeral was a private event, which it legally was. Its about time someone stuck it to these bastards.
As much as I hate it, you have to even let crazy people like this have their say. Plus, about half of the members of Phelps’ immediate families are lawyers and these people love going into court. The best thing to do with these folks is simply to ignore them. It’s hard to do, but it’s the best policy.
No
but it seems to be..??
I think under the judges criteria this church should loose A LOT of money. I hate that this group find it necessary to do this to grieving families. It almost makes me want to wait until someone in their church dies, make a huge announcement to get protesters there and let them know what it feels like to have this done to them. There is a topic for you Dan! What would you make your protest sign say to these people?
I just feel sorry for those brainwashed kids. Here’s a documentary about them… http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5664033756175200981&q=most+hated+family+in+america+duration%3Along&total=24&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
Where is the website to donate $$$ to the son’s father? I feel compelled.
This “church” (which they are not) is going to have to give account to a much higher power on these cases. It is horrible and I think they are crazy!
Yes.
As much as I despise intolerant church groups and as distasteful I find protesters in general, I think they have a right. I really really do hope that there’s legal recourse for the Dad and he has
They need to stop being in this country. I started watching that Google Video that aLi__cat posted. Their personal belongings, toys that they bought, clothes they are wearing….possibly been make by homosexuals. They’re a cult, that’s all they are.
It’s speech therefore it should be protected.
But, really, if there’s not a federal law about protesting at a funeral, then there should be. Because that is absolutely ridiculous. But someone should show up at their funeral saying something that offends them. I think a gay couple should get married by one of their funerals. :] That’d be neat.
I am also struck how distasteful and now damn undignified such church groups are. Short of a divine revelation of the case, I don’t know how any rational human being can make such an idiodic cause/effect as tragic military deaths abroad and divine punishment for something as inane as homosexuality. Nationally, there are more pressing concerns?!?!?
Normally I’m against any restriction of our freedoms as stated in the bill of rights, but no one likes those fuckers, so I say sue em, maybe they’ll shut up.
It seems terribly tasteless, not to mention insensitive to the grieving family, to protest at a funeral. It might be legal, but I sure would not go to any church that does that, I think.
Yes, they should be protected. But can we stage a protest against them….like on Sunday at their church?
How did the government take down the klan? You can’t ban the KKK, but you can hit them in the pocketbook so hard there is little left but bitterness and white trash.
You can’t ban protesting at funerals, but you can slam with with intricacies of the law until something sticks. Again and again and again until something STICKS. Don’t we pay district attorneys and prosecutors to serve the public? Get creative people, when a lawyer to be makes featured (and is Korean to boot, PROPS) I have faith that our future lawyers may do some good.
;P
There is the right to “free speech” and demonstration, HOWEVER, there is also the citizen’s right to have a funeral in the manner that they would want (their “free speech”) and the law does not say anything about how close these people need to be. I would strongly suggest that if I was a community member or on the city council there, I would want some kind of ordinance that allows a “right to protest” permit that does not exceed 1 mile from the funeral, but not to be nearer than a 1/2 mile at any time. Let them have their say, just make sure it it out of eyesight or earshot of any family member or friend that is participating in the funeral. I would also suggest that any family or friend might form a circle 1/2 mile around the funeral procession so that technically, the people would not be within a mile of said funeral. Understand?
The other thing I want to make clear is that this is not “the God of the Bible” This is a church who has taken it upon themselves to harass in a very unkind, unloving way. This is NOT what Jesus would do.
They’re about as crazy as young earth creationists! Lordy.
I should have equal rights to protest his church by carrying signs that say, “Thank the devil for guys like Phelps.”
No! For fucks sake! Honor the dead! What are you doing!? You are saying you are glad someone’s child died.
That would offend every human being beyond an reasonable amount of grief, and the 1st amendment doesn’t cover actions which impeed on other people’s rights, including the pursuit of happiness. This unequivocally does.
On another note, three cheers for the bikers that are forming a cordon to barricade the protesters and shield the family of the deceased.
“whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection”????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
OMFG! WTF?!?! I don’t think they MAKE font big enough for this.
YOU do NOT have the right not to be offended. You DO have the right to SAY you’re offended, but these people have EVERY right to do what they want.
(That said, it only holds true on public property. Private property owners (e.g., of the funeral home) can and should evict them.)
Earthsazurelight – define the pursuit of happiness.
Now think about all the possible things that could impede upon that.
I interpreted what you said as that I have no right to say that someone else is wrong, because it could make them unhappy. I know this is an extreme and horrendous case, but they still should have the right to say whatever they want.
Mum_of_Alexa, have you read the Bible?
Just as you cannot follow someone shouting obscenities at them (even though obscenities are protected under free speech) the act of pursuing them and the manner in which you are acting is harassment, and is illegal.
I truly think that organizing a group to tell someone they are glad a parents child died, and holding signs that say such, is harassment. Which isbasically what the pursuit of happiness thing is.
There is a major difference between harasment and “I have no right to say that someone else is wrong, because it could make them unhappy”
Like the KKK can have signs that say “Niggers should burn in hell” in places, they cannot do this outside someone’s home, or in pursuit of someone.
Oh and in reference to the bible homosexuality thing. There are many references that show the act of gay sex is sinful. There is however nothing that says the act of romantically loving someone of the same gender is sinful. Or at least, no one has pointed me to such a passage, and I have not found one (I asked several religious authorities about this issue).
It’s also pretty clear in the bible that sinners should not be treated with disdain, but love (The adulteres story, “cast the first stone”). Hate the sin, not the sinner so to speak.
Much as I dislike having to say this–while they may be lacking in taste and sensitivy, they are covered by the First Amendment. However, suing them for harrassment is something else entirely.
God, that bunch is always up to something.
They should go to jail for at least a few months.
If anyone had protested at my loved one’s funerals, I would have attacked them, not found the restraint to sue them.
la_faerie_joycuse
They might have the right to but this a form of harassment. They clearly go to lengths to picket funerals of dead soldiers. I watched the Google Video of their family documentary and they CLEARLY state they surf the internet to keep up on the soldiers who have died just so they can picket them. Their young children who picket with them have NO idea what the message is that they are portraying. It’s a brainwashing cult. These people will soon realize in the future that this is not a country of tolerance. Look what happened to the Mormons. The man, Louis creating the documentary asked one of the followers about Jesus because they were picketing a Jewish Temple. Louis mentioned the fact that Jesus was a Jew and the follower freaked out saying the Jews killed Jesus though. The Romans killed Jesus, Judas betrayed him, and Jesus was a Jew himself. These people are clueless and are in denial. This is their faith, I understand this, but they are clearly pushing the limits of the bible, manipulating it.
No, this should not be protected under the First Amendment. Those folks are very disrespectful and, from appearances, likely not Christian (I am not judging them, but we can know people by the fruit they bear–or the fruit that they do not bear). The Scriptures indicate that the fruit of the Spirit is “love, joy, peace patience…..” This church group does not seem to demonstrate any of those. If a tree does not bear the fruit, how can we know that it is truly a tree of that variety. At the very least those folks, if they make it to Heaven, will be very regretful of their lack of mercy and grace here on earth.
And, by the way, they are wrong about homosexuality. Though it is listed as sin in Scripture, there is no indication in the Scriptures that God loves homosexuals any less than He loves anyone else. He loves all of us the same, believe it or not. I’m thankful for that because I know the darkness that lurks in this old heart of mine at times.
Only if they stay very far away and don’t talk to the mourners.
Seriously, I have to land on the side of the first amendment, but… these people are inexcusable douchebags.
Personally, I think that seems more like harassment then free speech. And for their own safety they might just want to knock it off because I can tell you for a fact that if my husband were to die over there and then at his funeral these morons showed up to protest…it would take my whole family and then some to keep me in my stricken state of grief from tearing off all their heads. I’m surprised that no one has done that already.
^ Agree there. I was researching trying to find out why people find homosexuality to be so much worse than other sins. And she (and others) told me there is nothing in the bible that makes homosexuality a more “severe” sin than any other. God loves all his children.
And after looking at that picture again, I must say…thank God for the Patriot Guard and their bikes! They start revving them up when the protesters get noisy
I feel so sorry for the members of that church. They say they worship God, but it’s not any God I know….
Free speech is curbed during ‘wartime.’ In my opinion, that’s as good a reason as any to stop these wackos from harassing mourners.
Under the Amendmant of free speech…everyone has the right to speak out…BUT NOT TAKE SUCH OFFENSIVE actions. It’s no wonder Christianity AND THE MAN MADE INTERPRETATION of it is always under such fire and scrutiny. Not only is the statement “deaths are punishment for the country’s tolerance of homosexuality” a blasmephy from the first waters, it is so screwball it would be ludicrous, only for the injury and defamation they have done to those who died for freedom’s sake.
WBC should have no more rights than anyone else. In other words the courts should just throw the first amendment out the window as it doesn’t seem to apply to normal citizens.
However should it be decided that the first amendment does actually to normal citizens then we have to grant its protections to WBC as much as I hate them and want to see all of them die horribly painful and prolonged deaths.
Yes, they should be. I hate their guts, I think WBCers are a waste of flesh, and I would love to see them all castrated, but they have the right to say what they are saying.
it’s infringing on someone’s right to mourn. I cant believe people do this
I agree, it’s harassment and since when does the war have to do with the tolerance of homosexuality…those people seriously need to be drug tested.
I have an idea…let’s start picketing their church and disturbing their worship to God under the pretenses that their intolerance of the war is causing people to want to kill them….
I mean, how STUPID does that sound?
I hate Fred Phelps. What he (and his daughter) have done to this family is so sick and twisted. Saw that documentary a little while ago and spent the whole time either just angry or just sad. As for the question asked, as disgusted as their message is it is covered by the 1st amendment. Now that doesn’t mean that their can’t be rules that they have to follow in order to protest (certain distance away from the funeral, etc), which is more for their safety than anything else. Hopefully this nightmare of a family breaks apart after Fred Phelps dies.
Their message is Biblically inconsistent. I wouldn’t mind the government making a reasonable regulation of how far away the protesters had to be but I don’t think we should mess with the 1st.
I doubt this is the most extreme thing the 1st has ever protected.
I do not feel that protesting a funeral is an appropriate exercise of free speech.
I’m undecided. I understand that they honestly believe in what they are doing. And despite the fact that they’re complete assholes, we do have the right to be complete assholes in this country. (hence we don’t jail the liberal protestors of the war). But these people are doing serious harm to those who are only trying to get some closure about their dead sons and daughters.
I worry because I don’t want to be a hypocrite and I would say that it should be okay for people who are opposed to abortion to stand outside abortion clinics and plead with the mothers not to slay their children, but I suppose the difference is in the attitude of the approach, and the subject matter. The people at the abortion clinics are trying to save lives, whereas the people at the funerals are doing serious emotional damage to those who are trying to put their loved ones to rest. But then are the people at the abortion clinics not emotionally harming people? I don’t know. It’s such a hard issue to deal with, so I suppose I am still undecided
also, I completely disagree with what the judge said. No one has a right to not be offended. If that were true then no one would have the right to say stupid liberal things online or in my presence because it offends me. And then no one would have the right to say wise conservative things online because it offends the liberals. We only have a right to not be intentionally harmed. You know, I think I’m deciding there is no reason to sue, because as much as it hurts, that’s not the point. I despise what that church is doint but I don’t think it’s illegal. It’s just evil
I personally think they all need to burn in hell. Legally…I’m not sure. The government could do SOMETHING to prevent them from showing up at funerals…they are sick bastards…sorry for the language. I’m emotionally attached to the military side of this.
as much as i love free speech i don’t really feel that this particular group is exercising it in a way that is within the restraits of the amendment. they can be sued but i don’t know that they can be silenced is the real thing. hard to say since if they are silenced i believe it could set a rather dangerous precedent for future silencing.
It’s a funeral, for God’s sakes. They aren’t even protesting anything that the soldier did personally, they’re turning what should be a remembrance of his life into a religious and political circus and gay-bashing event. How is this Christian in any way?
screw ‘em. i hope someone firebombs their sorry exscuse for a ‘house of worship’.
the families of fallen heroes deserve better.
Anyway… to answer your question, I’m undecided. If it’s an isolated case, it’s probably better not to amend the laws, but if protesters start targeting funerals on a regular basis, might be time to make a few changes…
“No one has a right to not be offended. If that were true then no one would have the right to say stupid liberal things online or in my presence because it offends me. And then no one would have the right to say wise conservative things online because it offends the liberals.”
Do you read what you type? It sounds pigheaded. -.-
that is absolutely disrespectful. i can’t believe people would participate in that.
Yes, their protesting is covered under the 1st amendment.
If you don’t support freedom of speech for people who disagree with you, you don’t support it at all. If you only support freedom of speech and expression for those who think like you, that’s disgusting.
That’s not to say that I support the picketing, I think it’s fucking disgusting.
haha good call i was wondering why that didnt seem right…
P.S. – Zeitgeist
Phelps propagandized and planned a protest at my brother’s funeral after he was killed in iraq. The Patriot Guard riders showed up and kept them at bay. I attempted to confront Phelp’s followers in lubbock Texas a few years ago,but they were entirely too rabid to deal with. All they do is shout hateful slogans and jargon around that come from a type of dementia that is usually referred to as “herd mentatlity”. They should be allowed to show up. They should be heard. Anyone who agrees with them is obviously lacking common sense and should wear a helmet 24/7.
i agree with squeakysoul.
That poor family that’s grieving! I can’t imagine dealing with people like that. Funerals should be a private matter. If they want to make a statement fine, but at someone’s funeral?! That’s completely outrageous and uncalled for harassment. If they truly are a Christian church they need to learn to love others a bit more… My goodness, that poor family. I hope they win that suit.
That is totally inappropriate to picket a dead soldier’s funeral. HE wasn’t the problem … so why would they choose to picket his funeral. Doesn’t make sense to me, but then again, people can be ignorant at times!
“People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.”
Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
Aren’t christians instructed to ‘ Not bear false witness’ and ‘lift up the spirit’ of their brothers and sisters in Christ? Aren’t we, as christians, required to hold one another accountable for our actions and lovingly guide a wandering soul? If I was a neighboring church leader, I would be questioning and holding the leaders of Westboro Baptist accountable.
This is blatant slander and defamation of character and NOT covered by and a clear violation of the First Amendment.
Goto dost_cafe chat group Get a Chat Box
Everyone is entitled to first amendment protection, however, there has got to be something the police or authorities can do to stop this outrageous and disrespectful behavior. I can’t believe people are as cold hearted as to attack a family that is going through that kind of pain.
It may be legal, but its an absolute disgrace !
i think anyone whos pulls sick crap like that dont deserve to live in america…
god bless our soldiers
That picture is the most f*cked up thing I’ve ever seen. What is wrong with these people?
the church is a private institution it has the right just like every other establishment to refuse service— many of you who are crying bloody murder on here were totally supportive of that bar that kicked that fat girl out… remember??? oh yah… now quit being hypocrites!
Retaliate in Kind.
Protest Westboro Baptist Church member’s funerals. Use their own weapons against them.
Something along the lines of “God hates those who takes his name in Vain.”
I cannot understand anyone being so hateful and spiteful that they actually are happy for the deaths of young people. These protesters are despicable.
wait a second… i’m sorry I had the wrong story in mind. but yah, it’s still covered under the 1st Amendment.
check out this court decision:
There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of
speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought
to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and
obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or “fighting
words” those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to
incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that
such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and
are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit
that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social
interest in order and morality.
–
Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 1942
I think we should all sign up to protest his funreral when he finally goes.
I do not think anyone funeral should be the place to picket anything.. I say, no one should picket a funeral – all deserve to die with dignity.
I would alsomost connect this with the issue of a church not letting a homosexual have this fathers funeral in their church because of a pic and a mention of a partner…or something like that a few months back. I might have said it a bit wrong; but I think it is soooo wrong and i would say sinful to judge people at their death for thier ac tions in life. I think it is a time to mourn thier “passing” whatever one believes
Daniel (doubledb)
There’s gotta be a line somewhere. I don’t care how much you dislike someone when they’re alive. You can’t really hate a dead person.
And unfortunately, I live in the same state as that church…and it annoys me greatly.
How sad that they are using a tragedy to further their cause…..instead of protesting they should be supporting those poor, grieving people! Unfortunately, they like any other citizen have the right to assembly, the kkk still march….I don’t agree with them. I am proud of the men and women that have given the ultimate sacrifice…their lives! A funeral is a private time to say good by to loved ones. A time to support and comfort one another. How would they feel if someone came to one of their funerals and started yelling profanity? They would probably call the police!….There actions are giving true believers in Jesus Christ a bad name! By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:35, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.Matt 22:39 enough said!
Yeah, I think this is more harassment than excercising free speech. I think funerals should be something off limits for people to picket– everyone has the right to a funeral, and if the church holding it doesn’t mind that he was a homosexual (judge not lest ye be judged, etc) then let his family be.
The Westboro Baptist Church is disgusting. How they can call themselves Christians, I do not know…
I DESPISE this group, I’ve posted on them before; but they have the right just like everybody else to express their opinion…That doesn’t stop laws from being passed to prevent “Disorderly Conduct” at funerals. They protested near where I live last week, I wanted so bad to visit for the counterprotest but couldn’t make it. My college newspaper ran a story though.
This is totally stupid and completely inhumane. I don’t care what the church’s beliefs are, it’s just cruel to show up at ANYONE’S funeral with the intent to ruin it. If a loved one has died, that’s a tradgedy enough in itself.
I think we should start picketing the funerals of church members who picket.
“LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, GO TO HELL”
Blaming homosexuals for the poor results of the occupation of Iraq is in poor taste and is extremely unaligned logic. Why did so Americans die in Vietnam? What did homosexuality have to do with that? Anyone who studies history would come to the conclusion that Vietnam was lost because it was run with extremely poor policy. But if you look even further back to Nazi Germany, they were completely against homosexuality and would kill homosexuals. So, by the protester’s logic, Germany should have won World War II, because of their strong stance against homosexuality.
Oh, if I said this to them, they’d go on the moral high ground and say “Well, Nazis were evil. They killed the Jews, which are God’s people.” Well, no duh. But let’s get real. Most of these protesters claim to be Christians, right? So, by their own belief system, if you become a Christian, you are part of “God’s people”. So when Soviet Russia defeated Nazi Germany, was it because Russia was morally superior? No, Josef Stalin made Russia strictly an atheist state, even arresting people who practiced Christianity. Stalin’s own policies killed more people than Hitler’s. Stalin was not, in fact, the lesser of two evils, but happened to be the only Eastern ally we could count on to defeat the Nazis.
So, homosexuality protesters… go be stupid somewhere else.
The first amendment should apply. This is not a church nor are they Christians, they are a hate filled cult.
its about time someone sued them
As much as I dislike the Westboro Baptist church, they are entitled to their opinion.
definitely not! they can protest somewhere else. respect the dead and their beliefs.
No, picketing funerals should not be protected under first amendment. I do not believe this is what the founding fathers intended by protecting political speech.
I think that the church is wrong for protesting at the funeral of an american soilder that gave his life for the home of the brave! & it doesnt mader if he was gay or not.
I was under the impression that it was illegal to picket funerals. They picketed a funeral I went to a couple of months ago, but they weren’t on the church grounds, they were on the easement and about a block away, where all the funeral traffic could see it.
They also picketed my church because a certain senator was a member. Again, they were on the easement, so the church couldn’t do anything about it. From what I was told about the situation, it’s really a family affair. Most of them are lawyers and are trying to provoke people into hitting one of them so that they (Westboro) can sue.
ACCEPT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!! >>
S
America is a Christian nation of REAL Christians, who read the REAL >Bible the way it REALLY is and don’t give in to self serving >interpretations to suit their own devious political agendas. GOD HATES FAGS!!! SAVE YOUR SOUL NOW!!!
Transsexuals are the more EVIL, PERVERTED side of the gay movement. > It’s not enough to shove GAY MARRIAGE down everyone’s throat, now they > got to surgically alter their bodies to make it look WE will ALL have to pay for the sins and aberrations of these Sodomite > SICKOS. . > Pay no attention to these “Christian Gays” and “Wiccan Transsexuals” > > > and all the other self deluded fudgepackers. They are twisting and > > > misinterpreting the Bible and other scriptures in a sick perverted > > > attempt to force their sodomizing agenda on the American mainstream > > > and gain support from them. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
OMGEEE NOES !!!11111ELEVEN!!! L00K ITS TEH ROFLCOPTOR!111!
It’s not good manners, and it’s probably bad PR, but it should be protected.
If these protesters were serious about their cause, they would all commit mass suicide.
this is so ridiculous – i had to read this entry three times before i believed what i read…
just do a picket when one of them dies_
he died for nothing.. he served his minister..who was misguided
Anyone with one working brain cell knows that these soldiers are not dying because someone tolerated homosexuality. It is not only offensive, it is insane to make such a ridiculous association. Mo, funerals are mot venues for protest. They are private moments for families to say goodbye to fallen loved ones. And any pastor who would condone or encourage such asinine antics should be defrocked.
a funeral is a private event. it makes not statement, except a loved one is dead.
it’s not trying to take away anyones rights, or slander anyone.
it’s nothing to do with the first ammendment.
my heart is so grieved when i hear of those folks using such hateful words in the name of God.
and to see their children involved, i’m so ill.
Did you know these people also picket police and firemen’s funerals as well? They recently tried to picket a decorated firefighter’s funeral in Wichita….without success, I might add. Due to the Patriot Guard and the fire fighting community.
As for your questions. Are their actions highly offensive to reasonable people? Yes. Are they extreme and outrageous? Yes.
The doubt comes with the third question….is it so offensive and shocking as not to be entitled by First Admendment protection? As much as I hate what these people are doing, it appears it is covered by the First Amendment. The Law should be simple…no respecter of persons.
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Sometimes I find myself wondering how people who call themselves “Christians” can do this morally. Upsetting a family isn’t going to make your case. It makes you look bad. Now everyone hates you (if they didn’t already).
So, even though it may be covered by the First Amendment (which is one of those things you cannot get around, I guess, because of free speech, but a graveyard? Seriously? That is just cruel.), no one wants to go to your church, and no one agrees with you. So I hope you get sued till you have to sell everything you own and live in shelters. Where people call you ugly.
– Kare
I don’t see what George Bush has done wrong, he’s destroying a bunch of people who shouldn’t be in the 1st place. I say the Iraqis are just here to take up space on this planet. They’re not doing anything to benifit us. George Bush is doing a great job where he is. I hope he sends a nuke to Iraq and just wipe that country out of the map. The only thing the Iraqis know how to do is terrorize countries, they’re all terrorists.Ok, I’m going to say it, I think George Bush is good. He’s one of the greatest president ever.. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! he attack Iraq and many Iraqis died.. so what? I hope he bombs Iraq again, I seriously don’t give a crap if the Iraqis die, I hope bush kills them all, bomb the hell out of Iraq. serioulsy I think the Iraqis are nothing but terrorist and George Bush is doing the world a favour by bombing them and killing them. they just like to bomb the hell out of each other, so the Americans attacking Iraq doesn’t really make that much of a difference, they’re just speeding up the process. So I solute George Bush
Yes!!..it’s a catch twenty-two…thing is these people are in the minority & do not reflect ALL Christians; if a decision to sue them over these protests than it stands to reason that when other Christians go to protest other events & such, that more litigation will be brought against them based on this case.
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech…right or wrong! It does not matter who’s protesting.
I don’t agree with these morons but should they be stopped because a judge believes a few people are offended? This is a big decision to consider & we shouldn’t take it lightly.
I live in Huntsville, AL and Westboro came here last year when a school bus went over the guard rail on the interstate and killed four students.
What he does is not tolerated under the first amendment. It’s harassment and causes emotional distress. I can esaily see how someone can sue for it.
Not to mention some of his views and ways of going about things are downright cult-like.
It disturbs me how young that girl in the picture looks.
The demonstration should be allowed.. However, if I am not allowed to go to a family funeral, because I have offered to make a small petition in prayer to God, to command a dead soldier to raise to life in a small private ceremony in the funeral, in that it is disturbing people who may be afraid of the undead, then, anyone who is against my wish, and demonstrates that God should be thanked for the killing of US soldiers, should be discouraged from coming as well, as I may show up, making my demonstration a private, religious opportunity for someone to live. being that I can and will do it. Whose side are you on? Peace.
I think that it is wrong to protest at someone’s funeral, and I can’t imagine how painful it might be to have known someone killed in Iraq/Afghanistan and have their funeral disrespected like that. But, when you start restricting free speech, there is a problem of what gets restricted and what doesn’t. It’s not exactly a black and white issue, at least when you bring freedom of speech into the mess.
They have the right to say it.
That does not mean they should have the ability to say it without consequences.
People like to think that, if they have a “right” to something they should be able to do that thing and not be responsible to the repercussions; I think that the judge is looking at it the wrong way. They have the right to say what they think; they don’t have the right to hide behind the first amendment when the shit hits the fan.
they cant get them on the 1st amendment. you just cant.
Protesting a funeral is just rude. It’s people like that who give Christians a bad name.
Free speech is not the issue. I see this as disturbing the peace if nothing else.
NO! We have already established laws that dictate responsibility with free speech. We do not have the right to threaten anyone with physical harm, we do not have the right to ruin someone’s reputation by spreading lies. (think “threat to do bodily harm”, libel, and slander).
I like to say that one person’s rights never over-ride another’s….Too many Americans today would rather abuse their rights than use them.
NO NO NO! I want these antiamericans out of my country. and please take Rosie with them
They should be allowed to protest, yes. But they should also be allowed if they choose to protest, to be beaten and raped. Why would one set of actions be protected, and the other not?
If I was the father of the fallen soldier, I would shoot the protesters. That should be protected too.
ROXYD Sorry bub, but noone from our species will ever mate with a bipolar
primate like you.
Protesting a funeral shouldn’t be covered by the First Amendment when it is at the stake of harrassment and neglects the rights of others. These people have clearly overstepped that fine line. Props to you.
I dislike the Westbouro Baptist Church. They have a right to believe what they want to, unless they hurt others. I think protesting at funerals uninvited is hurting others.