November 10, 2007
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Peace
A teacher put together a Veterans Day map of the country for students to have as an assignment.
The desire of the teacher was that the students would learn “alternatives to war.” The project included the names of conscientious objectors and their hometowns. They were putting the conscientious objectors on the map.
The principal stopped the project. “The principal says she’s all for free speech, but doesn’t think our youngest students are ready yet to hear about war protesting.” The students were 4th graders. Here is the link: Link
Do you think 4th graders are ready to hear about war protesting?
Comments (90)
Yes.
Either teach them ignorance or to support it in its place?
Teach them the TRUTH.
yes
Yes.
Peace can be understood as easily as war, and fighting is an infantile concept.
10 years old is plenty old to ‘begin’ learning about peace.
Yes, they are old enough.
Yes.
I think 4th grade is the youngest they should be taught this, and I think that it should be brought up, but not directly encouraged, like I can imagine it being. “Peace” is a good thing, but 4th graders are too young to really understand the cost of peace.
Suprisingly, I would say yes.
sure, why not
They’re old enough to learn about bloodshed and war, but not about peacefully demonstrating their beliefs?
Sure, why not? I think it’s a reality for children of military families. I think war is our present reality. I think they should realize they don’t always have to agree with what is going on…
Sure.
good point.
Yes, I think you can teach them about both sides of the issue.
I agree with what the principal did but not with the way he phrased it. yes, fourth graders are ready to learn about peace and what causes it–mercy and forgiveness and repaying evil with kindness. but it’s not that they shouldn’t be learning about war protesters, it’s that the teacher shouldn’t present such a view as the only viable or desirable one. whatever happened to teachers teaching facts and parents teaching worldview, and allowing children the healthy exercise of forming their own opinions? maybe then we’d have people with some backbone about their beliefs.
they’re not too young.
Sure. Just think in one more year they can get free birth control too!
if they are ready to hear about war, then they are ready to hear about war protesting. war is about struggle, not glory. They should hear differing points of view.
sure
Of course they are!
What the fuck is with all your ads. Fuck’s sake.
I don’t care about protesting. I find it futile, obnoxious, and often intrusively self-righteous.
I am sure they are hearing it at home, too. If there is a balance of teaching, then go for it. But I would worry it would be one sided.
If 4th graders are old enough to have parents killed in the military during wartime, then they are certainly old enough to hear about war protesting.
4th graders are old enough. They are able to think abstract about so many things, and at this point in development, they are at the peak of knowing what is right and wrong.
If they can be taught about wars, then they can certainly hear about anti-war activists.
Depends. It’s a VERY rare teacher who can actually teach both sides of an issue, and this is something that could easily become polarized.
Telling them how to think? Not cool.
Presenting the information that there are some people against war? Ok.
yea sure why not
Not all conscientious objectors were out protesting the war. My grandfather was a conscientious objector during WWII because his religion forbids taking part in any sort of violence. But he didn’t protest that the war was happening in the first place. I think he personally didn’t want to be out there shooting people.
You’re never to young to be a hippie or a right wing nutjob.
sure. but the problem with the project is that it’s biased and only presents one side of the issue. these kids should be presented with the facts and be allowed to form their own opinions.
Yeah…also they should learn protesting war never really works out.
Definitely. Considering they’re learning about wars by then, they should also be learning about protests against them. However, the teacher should teach them as facts, and try his/her hardest not to present them any other way.
Yes.
No, let them stay innocent. They’ll find out soon enough about war and what’s so awful about it. They probably already know in the abstract, but seeing it concrete is so different. Plus, most of them are too young to think for themselves, whatever their teacher believes will end up being their stance on the issue. They haven’t formed opinions yet with substantial evidence, and most believe blindly what adults tell them. Let them gather information when they’re ready and form their own opinions.
I watched Anne Frank and The Titanic the summer before 5th grade. I was traumatized and would cry myself to sleep every night for months. Mom threatened to send me to a mental institution. Fourth grade is too young to teach children the reality of war and why it needs to be protested. And if they’re not teaching them the reality they have no idea what they’re really protesting.Really, teachers shouldn’t talk about their views to their students until highschool when the kids can make decisions for themselves. It’s obvious the teacher was anti-war, and although I am as well, teacher’s shouldn’t condition their kids to think the way they do.
With everything going on in the world, one would think that teaching alterntives to war would be a good thing. It is never too young to learn alternatives to those things that our children are learning about the warfare we so blatantly march in front of them on the news. Bottom line, it is war that is senseless and to teach about alternative may be the only sense we can find. Looks like someone is simply tring to make a difference in how our young people view conflict.
RYC: thanks, the costume had a pillow in it so it gave her a bigger belly. she loved laying on it, it was so cute.
No, let them stay innocent. They’ll find out soon enough about war and what’s so awful about it.
I’m sure they were already learning about war, because the idea of protest doesn’t follow from nothing. in fourth grade we did american and virginia history (essentially the same thing in many places), and there’s a TON of war involved there.
But they can hear about war? Why should kids first accept war, and then when they are older the concept of peace?
Sure, protesting war is a part of history, both past & current. If they are taught properly, children will understand that war is not always the best solution, nor is it always possible to have a peaceful resolution. Along with teaching them about war protests, I think they also need to learn that is is The War, & the powers that be that set it in motion, that they should protest against, & Not the soldiers that fight the war.
I think this question stems from the idea that war is the norm, war is what is given, the necessity of war is taken for granted. as a nearly-pacifist Christian, I would question that mindset, and I would certainly question the instilling of it by the state into the minds of impressionable fourth-graders. again, I do not think my above-mentioned dichotomy is false: teachers can teach the facts of war without imposing a pro- or anti-war worldview, allowing parents to pass down their values. then when children begin to come into their own identity, they can choose their own path.
this is the case with me, as well. my brother is a marine and my entire family is very republican, pro-iraq war and the rest. I am fiercely against the war in iraq, but not because of anyone’s doing except my own in evaluating the facts as well as the teaching of the Orthodox Church on war and violence. none of my sons will ever enter into military service for the united states of america or any other country. but not because my fourth grade teacher taught me that pacifism is the best choice. capiche?
I think they need to understand what leads to wars before they can understand why people protest. Fourth grade seems a bit young to me.
If they are odl enough to recive condoms at that age then hell ya!
I decided to come back & add a bit more to my comment, while I don’t have a problem with 4th graders being taught alternative options to war. I DO Have a Problem with conscientious objectors. In my opinion at least, 90% of conscientious objectors, joined the military in the 1st place simply to get a free ride in eduction, & health care, while getting paid for it, & never expected that they would actually have to go to war. When after so many peaceful years, we now find ourselves at war for the long haul, they suddenly have an epiphany that they can’t DO THAT…… No, I don’t Think So!!! If you aren’t willing to Fight the Battle, then Don’t Join the Military!!!!
I definatly think so. The kids are learning about war, why not teach them about peace?
There’s a correct and incorrect age to learn that killing people is bad, now?
I don’t see why it can’t be presented as a historical fact: in the past and present people have protested wars. What id wrong with telling kids that? We tell them about WARS; why not teach them that some people are against wars?
In fourth grade I learned all kind of things like World Religions and such. Protesting is an option. As long as the teacher isn’t pushing a political view on the student it should be ok. But if a teacher pushes a political view . . . nope.
YES! The all probably wonder about it anyhow. The principal had no right doing that-the coward.
If they’re old enough to learn about war, surely they’re old enough to learn about peace.
At least peace doesn’t include murder.
But it shouldn’t be one-sided. As it is, even high school teachers aren’t allowed to show bias on anything political…and I don’t know about most people my age, but even if my senior government teacher were to say something, I won’t automatically jump behind them.
It’s not like they’re in kindergarten and can’t distinguish between what the two are. Fourth graders should be able to understand what both are…so if the two can be taught on equal ground, rather than the teacher promoting one or the other, the let it happen. ‘Cause you know at home, the parents will be shoving their views on the kids either way…whether they mean to or not.
Well, peace & war protesting…I let my mind wander too much after reading this and went on about something completely different, kind of.
Not on or around Veteran’s Day – we live in a free country because of veterans and the slain. Teach the children about the importance of sacrifice and responsibility – they’ll know when to fight and when to hold back. Stop feeding them that “everybody can get along” bullshit.
If they can learn about Veteran’s Day and war, they can learn about war protests.
it’s easy to be a war protester when the war is far from you…
ryc: GPS’s are great… It makes it easy going through big cities…. especially if you have the traffic net built in to your system…
No, but I don’t think that they should teach it in a way that glorifies one side but the other- but if you’re going to support any side, support the side our country took in war. Don’t tell them how to think, but since it’s inevitable it’s better to instil patriotism than rebellion. Both can be bad tho.
“we live in a free country because of veterans and the slain.”
firstly, I don’t think we live in a free country. secondly, your statement is bullshit. soldiers are just the pawns used by governments to bully other governments. the deaths do not accomplish anything. only the trading of money by high-ranking officials ends wars. or have you never actually studied a ‘peace’ treaty? the susceptibility of the germans to a leader like adolf hitler is due in large part to the treaty of versailles which dismantled their economy and plunged them into ruin and confusion. your statement requires an american superiority in order to achieve any coherence. or do you consider the death of German soldiers just as noble? how about the viet cong? or afghanis or pakistanis? do our mothers and wives grieve more righteously? it takes submission to the american cause–whether “global democracy” (which is really a euphemism for “protecting our oil interests”) or “avenge pearl harbor” or “throw off tyrannical British reign” or anything else–to say that deaths are noble or efficacious in securing liberty. any Japanese, German, or really anyone could make the same statement you have made.
and this, folks, is the kind of mindless war-worship against which I spoke in my earlier comment.
I’d be upset if any teacher taught war protest in school no matter the age. Politics should stay out of school.
I think they’re old enough, but this particular case sounds like the teacher is teaching her opinion on war instead of letting the students make up thier own minds. If she’s going to have a discussion on conscientous objectors and pacifists, she should also talk about those who fought in wars and served in the military. With a topic like this, it’s very dangerous to present just one side of the issue.
does their education program include current events and history? if yes, then yes. objection is a real part of both current and past events, and one of the crucial aspects of our constitution.
Shouldn’t they just be educated and allowed to make their own decisions?
ANYONE IS OLD ENOUGH.
War is created to tear our race apart, teach them early and teach them right to PROTEST against it.
The “cost” of peace?
That’s the most fucking frightening thing I’ve read all day.
For sure!
If the teacher is going to talk about war, then it’s reasonable to make war protesting and alternatives to war a part of the discussion.
But will this teacher mention the trauma endured by veterans who came home to a protesting public that cursed them for having done their patriotic duty? Among the alternatives to war that the teacher mentions, will children hear about total annihilation at the hands of one’s aggressors? Perhaps I am wrong, but I’m going to assume that the teacher has much rosier ideas in mind.
People talk as though peace were the only alternative to war. That is simply not true.
If they’re old enough to learn about history and wars, they’re old enough to think about why they come about, and what can be done to prevent them or make them less devastating.
Why is it that accepting wars as the status quo is not seen as “one sided” but mentioning that some people are against violence is some big deal?
YourOuterCritic– what about the trauma veterans suffer from having been in a war setting to begin with? PTSD is a big problem that no one likes to talk about or deal with. If we’re going to have a reasonable discussion about war, we need to include all the costs that go along with it.
The sooner the better.
I say yes to just hearing about protest, but more skeptical about protest itself and saying whether it is right or wrong. That sounds more manipulative to me. I remember my history teacher teaching about the different sides of dropping the A-Bomb at the end of the war. It was well balanced and well done.
“YourOuterCritic– what about the trauma veterans suffer from having been in a war setting to begin with?”
That’s a very good question. In fact, there are MANY good questions which could be asked. Far too many to be mentioned here.
“If we’re going to have a reasonable discussion about war, we need to include all the costs that go along with it.”
I agree with everything you say.
Not at all. But, most fourth graders now days are hardly aware that there is a war, I think. They are too busy watching MTV and Drake and Josh.
Flippetty fuck yes!!!!
Not old enough to learn about alternatives to war…. Yet presumably at this age they would be getting lessons on religion? Strange.
Whats the alternative, teach them about war only? lol. thats a stupid excuse.
yes
as long as they can comprehend it
I have a hard time with that. I believe in teaching kids to support their country and the troops. I would have to teach if from the perspective that everyone in the U.S. has a right to their own opinion and that some opinions would not necessarily match ours. I would tell them that in order for these people to have a ‘voice of freedom’ someone had to fight for it.
That is not a lesson about the alternatives to war. That is an attempt to shove a political agenda down peoples throats. That is something that has absolutely no place in any school no matter how old the students. That is something that should be left to politicians.
no, that’s thjeir overbearing parent’s job
I have a feeling that this teacher is presenting a biased view. I would be willing to bet that she did not cover reasons for war. The principal was right. It’s highly suspicious that this was done for Veterans Day. I think an assignment of writing thank you letters would’ve been more appropriate.
4th graders are one step above crumb crunchers. Kids that young still have brains full of mush. Protestors want to share their misery with children by trying to brainwash them into the world of protesting. However, war protesting is for adults who haven’t a clue, not for kids. Let kids be kids and leave war protesting to the rent-a-mob gang of adults.
I’m all for no war, however, to protest anything no matter what age you are, you should be equally informed on both sides of the matter. If you don’t have this, how can you possibly protest with any kind of authority?
Yes better they get the right info then hearing storys and not understanding them!
btw, your music on here is annoying!! lol
They are old enough to know about the war and the consequences of it yet they don’t have the choice to learn about peaceful demonstrations – how does that work? They should be given the chance to know the truth when they’re young so that they don’t grow up to be ignorant.
Not if they are from military families and Mommy or Daddy or Uncle Bob are over seas . . .
If not when theyre still young and impressionable, then when?
yes the world is a dangerous place
If a child is old enough to learn about war and its existance, the child is old enough to learn about alternatives to war.
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4th grade is old enough to listen to both sides, but I don’t think they shouldbe indoctrinated one way or another.
No, they just won’t care. Junior High level, I think they MIGHT want to just listen, for the first step.
No they shouldn’t. Its not up to a teacher to spoon feed her liberal morality into my child. If she hates the war and veterans fine. She should find disciples elsewhere. She should not highjack a holiday that doesn’t belong to her.
I’d be more open to it if I didn’t suspect that the teacher is abusing the position to spread their agenda. Just like when I was in the 7th grade and my science teacher had us sell t-shirts to save the rain forest. Yeah, I sold 0 t-shirts. 10 year olds are too immature to consider this yet imho, at least in a class setting. The critical thinking process hasn’t kicked in for too many of them yet.