November 18, 2007
-
Test Tube Babies For Lesbians
The UK is currently considering legislation that will allow lesbian couples to become parents of test-tube babies.
Currently the law in the UK requires that test-tube clinics “ensure that a father is involved in the upbringing of any child they help create.” The legislation could change that requirement. Here is the link: Link
Is a father a significant factor in the upbringing of a child?
Comments (121)
First???
Yes, a father CAN be….if the father’s a good one.
Yet I’ve also heard Dr. Dobson say that a good, stable single-mom family is better than a two-parent family where the father is emotionally absent or abusive, so I think it’s more to do with parenting and love than with father/mother. Or two mothers, as the case may be.
It is nice.
I think the idea of tubes and lesbians is great.
Lets disregard the rare exceptions, yes fathers are needed. It takes both a mother and a father ideally. But those who like to deny such things, will do so no matter what the evidence to the contrary.
Agree with trunthepaige… I just can’t imagine a family without a father. I am glad I have one.
Yes.
Yes. As a child growing up, I fought a lot with my dad. We never could seem to get along…As an adult, I can look back and see that I needed him- He taught me a lot - Things that my mother could not. I cant imagine what my life would be like without him in it…
Absolutely.
Many kids grow up not having a father and do just fine. Others grow up with fathers and don’t. It’s all how you were raised and treated as you were growing up that matters.
I’m not sure I understand the question. If you’re asking if a father is NECESSARY in the upbringing of a child, then no, I don’t think so. I know plenty of people with lesbian parents, and they’re some of the most intelligent, organized and morally upright people I know.
Facts don’t make a bit of difference to any politician in the world so I don’t see why it matters. That said, yes I believe a father is important, how else is the child going to learn to deal with both sexes.
I didnt have a father
and I grew up to be a professional, intelligent, funny person.
PS: I think it’s very nice that they’re finding ways to let non-heterosexual couples have children.
That doesnt mean that I think to Lesbians cant raise a child- 2 parents are always better then 1.
As single moms, my best friend [Christine] and I shared a lot of child raising “duties”. We were trying to give our kids the stuff they missed out on while their dads werent around.. (TWO parents). We ran into a few “snags” though. Although her boys do know how to treat ladies with respect, cook , clean, and even change their own tires… Things like teaching her boys to pee standing up, or how to deal with those morning “erections” (and having to explain them) ….. That was something that we both had obvious difficulty with ( Not for lack of trying, though) It was not FUN .
And for those with no father, or husband. I’m sure everyone does the best they can and it may be just find. But studies (and common sense) show a real disadvantage on average, not in all cases.
But if you never had a father, how would you know what you missed and how much better you might have been?
Just because they are lesbians doesn’t mean they can’t have a child.
I definitely think a father needs to be around.
I do understand when there isn’t a man around because of other reasons. I find it best to find great male role models. And that will always be the argument — people will find a way to bring a man into their lives whether they are related or not.
Not particularly. Testosterone is bad for humans.
RYC:
Also, as a single mother….I think I am doing pretty good without a man around as a role model. Dylan doesn’t notice it because I try to do both roles as best I can. I don’t think a man is needed at all.
This is from personal experiences.
Hah! I think this linked story is the more important one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=494784&in_page_id=1773
A father no, just because you have the title “father” doesn’t make you a good parent. I believe every child should have a strong male influence.
No. I’m sure my fiance and I will make wonderful parents, no matter the fact that we’re both anatomically female.
It would be hard for the kid growing up. Kids are brutal to other kids that aren’t normal.
and ps. where did ur picture blog go?
They can be, yeah.
My father was abusive so I was MUCH better off without him.
This really begs the question: what makes a good family? Children will adjust in the world they live in easiest if they look around and find others that they feel they can relate to, which includes a nuclear family, a mother, father, and any siblings. However, if the father is emotionally or physically abusive toward his children, it would be better for the child to not have a biological father in the picture while growing up. Furthermore, in order to feel stable throughout his/her life, a good, loving foundation must be put in place during the first years of life, the first 3-4 according to the research I’ve seen (which I cannot site). This is more important than the gender of the parents, so if a biological father donates his sperm to a lesbian couple who are both able and willing to give the child a loving home, they should be allowed to. It may not be “normal” or something that is prevalent in society, but mixed couples used to be the same way, and still are. It’s not a perfect example, since it involves gender not race, but it’s the same underlying concept.
I guess it also works without a father.
Not in single-mother homes. What would be so bad about double-mother homes? or double-father homes, for that matter?
As in everything else, love is the significant factor, not gender.
i didn’t have a father, and i grew up just fine, eh? *twitches*
Yes, it is a significant factor, but it is EXTREMELY important to note that two loving mothers can do just as fine a job.
I think a good 2 parent family is the best option for kids.
Trunthepaige, I’m somewhat befuddled by your comment when you say “how much better you might have been” with a father.
I grew up with a “weekend dad” until I was 12, and left my abusive mother to go live with him. (At which point he was still a weekend dad.) However, I don’t think I’d be a better person, or any more intelligent, kind, hard-working, or musically talented, if he had been around. I might have been happier as a child because I would have had the chance to eat more than once a week, but I don’t think it would have fundamentally changed the person that I am today.
I still feel kinda iffy on this issue. Children learn different things from mothers and fathers (assuming they are not abusive parents). Men are more likely to play expansively with their children than to do
mundane care taking; women tend to be more practical. Mothers tend to
be more responsive to their child’s immediate needs, while fathers tend
to be more firm, more oriented to abstract standards of justice (right
and wrong).
Then again, I believe both males and females can exhibit such behaviors – it would depend on the individual. All I can conclude is that children are a big responsibility.
“But if you never had a father, how would you know what you missed and how much better you might have been?”
Posted by trunthepaige
That’s illogical thinking. If you never had two mothers or two fathers, Paige, how would you know what you missed and how much better you might have been?
Certainly, a father is a good thing, but where one isn’t present, a brother would do! I do think having a male influence can be important!
Yes. Some fathers are rotten guys, but that doesn’t mean the kid doesn’t still need a good father.
A father does play an important role in a child’s life. If the legislation goes through, then it should allow the father visiting rights to the child, without necessarily giving them legal rights over the child.
Apparently the family unit holds no sway in the world anymore. Whose fault is it? Hard to say…
I’d say yes, though. Male influences are just as important as female influences, because if you’ve only got one you’re not getting the whole story. Honestly, the family unit just makes sense.The whole children for homosexuals thing is another issue entirely.And is nobody thinking about what it would feel like for that child to grow up a test tube baby? Somebody else commented on the acceptance of normality, and I know some people just don’t care at all about anything, but there are plenty who do.I wonder if the answer would be different if you asked “Does a child need a mother?”
And the people who are crying abuse are missing the point. It’s not like all father figures are abusive. Or like mothers aren’t. I see a lot of “well, if the mothers both are perfect mothers and the father sucks, then gender doesn’t matter.” That’s kind of an extreme situation to qualify your answer in.
It is, ideally I would like Caleb to be helping me all the time. I would be more sympathetic if it were two lesbians wanting to adopt.
Dayspring cards went to the local prison and gave the inmates the opportunity to send free cards to their moms on Mother’s Day. They had 100% participation. Because of the success, they returned on Father’s Day. The result??? Less than 5% participation. . .
I’d say Fathers are VERY important!!
I didn’t have a father, other than me being upset because of the type of person he was, and how he was removed from my life, it never has affected me adversely.
Of course it makes a difference and its significant, but the father’s presence doesn’t make or break a child. Ask any single mother.
A father is important but not essential. Many people grow up and manage to be well-adjusted, successful people without one. In saying that, my father and mother both had very different roles in my upbringing and without one I would not have turned out the same as I did.
do you think you are significant to your kids, Dan? DO YOU?
absolutely.
Ideally I think there should be at least one ”positive male role model” somewhere in the picture. It wouldn’t be an undue burden to ask that good male friends or brothers or fathers of the ladies develop a good relationship with the child. I’d hope that would be happening anyway.
No. The term father does not make you a father or a positive influence. I strongly believe that two women or two men can provide a loving and positive home for a child. The love of family is what makes you a family; not what’s between your legs.
Um…yes
hope you are having a good day Dan…^^
You need a father. That is the way it started. A man and a woman. I don’t have a problem with gay people.. but they shouldn’t have kids. I couldn’t imagine growing up with gay parents. No way.
Definitely yes. Research has shown that the father plays a crucial role in parenting. There are huge articles that I’ve read in Sociology about the role of a father
Not as such. There’s nothing inherent in being genetically related to a child that makes you a better parent. Likewise for mothers. We can imagine a society where all children do not know who provided their genetic material and are raised by the community. There’s no reason to suspect that those kids would not end up just fine.
The impact of having a father-figure present in a child’s life is probably useful, especially for boys, but whatever advantage that provides is massively dwarfed by the advantage of just having a second parental figure of any kind present. There’s probably diminishing returns for parental influence so it probably follows a sort of parabolic curve. One active parent is significantly more beneficial than none; two more than one but not as much more, three better than two but not nearly as much better and so on.
But besides why do we want everyone to grow up in cookie cutter family relationships, all raised the same way and with the same influences? I don’t. We should let people raise their children as they deem best and then we’ll all learn from each other’s unique perspectives wrought from different experiences growing up. We all benefit from varied perspectives. That’s what’s best for the society.
“It would be hard for the kid growing up. Kids are brutal to other kids that aren’t normal.” –danisarockstar37
Yes, kids can be cruel when you are different. I was raised by a single mother. I have never met my father. When I was in first and second grade, I made up stories about how my father wasn’t around because he was a secret agent. Later, I learned that my friends knew this wasn’t true, but they didn’t want to hurt my feelings so they went along with it.
The real hardship? When the daycare workers, the adults, would ask me why they had never met my dad. I would explain “he’s just not around.” They would ask if he was dead or if my parents were divorced and I would say “no, he’s just never been around.” There’s this look that people get when you say things like that. It’s pity mixed with superiority. It’s not something that I think they are aware of. I do not believe that they actually thought that they pitied me and were better than me, but they felt it.
The way that they would act towards my mother changed. They smiled more, in a way that made it obvious that they didn’t like her as much. That made me furious and hurt. I have moved past a lot of things. I’ve let go all of the important moments in my life-from bed time stories to my up coming college graduation-that my father has missed. What I haven’t been able to let go of is the way that my mother has has been treated because of decided to keep me and to love me, regardless of anyone else.
Kids can be cruel, sure, but not usually on their own. Guess who teaches them that people who don’t have a father have lives that aren’t as good as their own?
Funny how the importance of fathers comes up when talking about lesbian couples having children, but not when it’s a teen mom whose boyfriend ran off and no one’s willing to help her out… hmmmm
My guess is that as long as the child has 2 loving parents and a stable home s/he’ll grow up to do just fine. Heck, many kids only have 1 good parents (divorced households) and do just fine. The parents are not the only loving stable relationships in a child’s life.
From personal experience, yes.
You have so many close-minded people who comment on here Dan.
I’ve already stated as a single parent that a father isn’t needed. I don’t understand why people keep saying yes a father has to be a part of a child’s life. Just take my situation: My son’s father wants joint custody of his son when he has only seen him once BECAUSE he doesn’t want to pay as much money. Who wants that kind of person in their child’s life? Not me and I can do just as great as a mother AND a father then he would be as just as a father. There is nothing wrong with having one parent. I grew up with a horrible father and then when my mother divorced him, she did an amazing job raising three kids by herself.
Yes… even though I’m really for homosexual rights and everything a father is actually
needed.
Very hard to grow up without a father, OR mother!!!!!!!
How many single mothers and widows are out there raising their own children right now?
I don’t think it changes anything too much…and I’m sure the child would still have some form of guy figure around if they absolutely needed one at one point….the lesbians will have to have a brother or male friend somewhere.
You have so many close-minded people who comment on here Dan.
I’ve already stated as a single parent that a father isn’t needed. I don’t understand why people keep saying yes a father has to be a part of a child’s life. Just take my situation: My son’s father wants joint custody of his son when he has only seen him once BECAUSE he doesn’t want to pay as much money. Who wants that kind of person in their child’s life? Not me and I can do just as great as a mother AND a father then he would be as just as a father. There is nothing wrong with having one parent. I grew up with a horrible father and then when my mother divorced him, she did an amazing job raising three kids by herself.
11/18/2007 1:11 PM
derisio
I’m sorry, but just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make them close-
minded and stupid.
Almost everyone commenting here is commenting from personal experience, you are,
I am, and pretty much everyone else here is. The fact that the majority of people
grew up in a father/mother household means that a lot of comments will say ‘yes’
because they had a good experience with that. Just because your father was abusive
doesn’t mean that all fathers are.
I hate these discussions. I really do. When I say ‘hate’ I mean it.
I agree as usual with mr colorful … even if a father is important, do politicians care? no.
and yes, and father is of the utmost importance. I have a lot to say on this matter but I commented half a dozen times on the virginity post and no one engaged my points so I’ll give this one a rest.
Yes. For some people, maybe no, but for me, definitely yes.
Yes, just like it is vital to have a mother. Can people be happy and productive without them? Of course. But, it is still ideal. For people to just dismiss one gender as irrelevant is short sighted.
I think it’s important for a child to have strong, positive role models from each sex. This can be done without the traditional family structure. People that go to this much trouble to have a child, I think, are more likely to make sure that all people around that child will be positive role models. There are lots of crappy “straight” parents in the world. In a perfect world, every child would be adored by their parents and have a great childhood. That doesn’t happen so why not allow “non-traditional” families, that have a lot of love to offer, have the chance to be parents?
just need some one to guide you the gender or sexual preference of the person doing it isn’t the issue…it’s what they teach and how they treat the child that is important…my family didn’t treat me as well as they should have, and it’s formed a cycle in my opinion especially when i was younger of people treating me crappy and me feeling like shit about myself…and sometimes because of that I just want to treat crappy people crappy …but i try to be better than that.
They dont need a father as long as they have parents that love the child.
Yes, if the father is not only a biological father but also willing to be part of the family.
hm not really. lots of single moms are capable of raising their kids an have them not turn out to be little ungrateful bastards =)
buttt i’m not really sure having TWO women raising a child is the right thing to do. nothing against lesbian couples or anything, but when born a child is expecting a father and a mother. and no matter how manly one of the women might be, the fact that they don’t have any male properties makes their role as the “father” a little fake. well really fake.
>_>
i’m bisexual myself and if i had decided to have a female as my life partner i still don’t think i would try to adopt a child just because lesbians want equal rights. there are just some places you gotta draw a line. i think people should just get over the fact that you can’t be selfish about your rights/decisions.
<_<
nephyo: its not about having a child with the same blood as you;
its about whether or not that child should be brought up in a household where a male figure isn’t present. there’s supposed to be a balance between the roles present in a child’s life. i don’t have anything against gays/lesbians obviously, but i still don’t think they should take it upon themselves to have a child just to defy nature so that they can gain equality or whatever. its so inconsiderate of the child.
a father is very important. but as long as it has 2 parents.
It’s a difficult question to answer, mainly because I’m pro-gay marriage, and for lesbians and gays to have their own families. I don’t believe a father is necessary, nor a mother, though, I do believe that an opposite influence is necessary for a good upbringing. A child needs a male influence in their life, as they also need a female influence. How else do they learn about both sexes in life?
Yes.
I think I like morbidFRAGRANCE’s comments the best.
I think it’s important for kids to have good adult male role models. Whether they’re fathers, uncles, friends, whatever.
I agree with the first comment, and I do believe that the lesbian couples should have kids – as well as gay ones. If they can make it work, that’s all that matters.
Research has shown that fathers are important.
yes
but when born a child is expecting a father and a mother. and no matter
how manly one of the women might be, the fact that they don’t have any
male properties makes their role as the “father” a little fake. well
really fake.
Children aren’t born expecting it, they grow up expecting it because our society makes it seem like it’s the only “right” thing to have. Especially when they’re the children in the “right” family. Your views of things depend on how you’re raised. Yes, they can change, but most of what you believe starts from your influences- mostly family- and what they tell you is supposed to be or not be there.
I think that a father-figure is important, but I don’t think that person has to be an actual father.
Depends on three things: The child, the mother, and the father. Each person’s outlook is what is the dependent factor here.
In my situation….my daughter does not miss her father. She has no reason to, since she doesnt know him. She has mommy and grandma and thats all she needs.
When I was growing up….my father was in and out. As a result, it impacted me. I had a few issues with it. Not that he was absent, but that his presence was so sporadic and confusing.
I think that the actual person isnt what matters, its their role in the child’s life. My mother is the second parent to my child. If something were to happen where she were in and out of the baby’s life, or where they were separated…it would impact her. Because that is her other parent-figure. My mom is “daddy”, so to speak. So, as long as these lesbian couples stay together and raise the child together, the child should be ok. But if they go through the BS my parents went through….its bound to fuck a kid up.
A father is pretty influential, for better or for worse. A stable, loving household is more important than anything else.
saphira:
that child is born in america. aka a society that expects it. meaning that when they see every other family with a father role they’ll think there’s something wrong with them. you’re just further proving my point >_>
(and i agree with riri) anyone calling anyone closed-minded in this conversation is being hypocritical. we don’t HAVE to agree with you. don’t put your bias in and then call other people hypocritical.
I think a father is necessary, somethings can’t be taught by the mother. Like how to be a man, a father….
…That’s not a Lesbian couple there, Dan.
That’s a chick?
i think stable role models are what are needed. it may not be a father or mother, it could be a teacher, uncle or friend. of course these can be dangerous influences as well. a stable environment with loving, nurturing adults of both sexes is ideal. so i suppose that could be the way it is framed, is there a stable, loving, nuturing environment with both sexes present as influences in the childs life?
Not really. a woman can bring up a child just fine on her own. many of us have done this. a two parent relationship is nice but now a day it doesn’t matter much. As long as the child starts out with only one parent involved in its life and isn’t having to bounce back and forth. that is very unstable and damaging.
canistabuagain is right. Non-traditional couples that go to this much trouble, just like anyone else who goes to this trouble will probably protect and love the child more than anyone else ever could.
morbidFRAGRANCE: I agree with you that having a male role model is helpful. But I disagree about the extent of the benefit of having that male role model be an ever present ‘parent’ figure. There may well be advantages to having two women raising a single child since they would bring alternative perspectives to the table. There are probably even advantages to being raised by a single parent. Some of these are very visible. I mean single parents fairly frequently end up closer to their children. They are more likely to be best friends.
All I am saying is that instead of saying that one particular setup is obviously best and demanding that everyone follow suit, maybe we should be thinking about how we can adapt society so that people can raise their children the way they want to. We can do things like have big brother/ big sister programs and the likes that can ensure that children have role models of the opposite gender even when they aren’t naturally present. Similarly closer knit schools, churches, neighborhoods, and communities can all help. Lastly effective psychological support systems readily available to children of all ages will benefit everyone.
So there’s no reason to force lesbians to not have children just because the child will not have a ‘father’. As long as we plan accordingly, society can absorb all kinds of different ways of having children be brought up. What’s more the uniqueness of the different environments will make us all have distinctive perspectives on life and that will make for a richer culture overall.
Also I think its just plain wrong to tell people they can’t have children just because they happen to be wired a certain way. Who are we to deny people such an important part of their happiness because we suspect the child won’t wind up absolutely perfect as a result. Give me a break. Might as well tell poor people, or lazy people, or stupid people they can’t have children too.
YES.
By the way, those two don’t really look like lesbians.
I would say yes they are……… but look at how shitty children are these days even WITH dads. Obviously it’s not a factor anymore. Plus they end up having dads and then the parents get divorced, so why does it matter?
Yes.
Biologically, a male and a female (father and a mother) are required to create…baby! Emotionally, even in absent father/mother situations, the kid will seek out a father/mother figure if possible to fill a void. Even if they don’t admit it…
I feel that as long as there are two loving people in the in the home it shouldnt matter whether they are gay or straight
NUH UH CUZ DA BIBLE SEZ BEIN GAI IS LIKE A SIN SO DA KID WOULD BE RAZED IN A ENVIRMENT THAT WOOD LEAD DEM STR8 2 HELL. GODZ PLAN IS A MAN N’ A WOMIN HE MADE ADUM AND EVE NOT ADIM AND STEVE.
I think a male figure is significant in the raising of a child. He doesn’t have to be the biological father at all. Could be a special school teacher or religious figure or family friend or athletics coach.. the list goes on and on. So, my answer is no, but yes.
Yes…it is sad that the dead beat father makes it looks bad.
Yes.
So is this the lesbian couple in the photo? Wow the one on the left looks like a guy! I would have never known this was 2 chicks…….amazing!
I agree, It takes more than just being able to make a baby to be a good father/mother…but than again you can have 100 lesbians & 100 sodomites raising a baby & neither one of them will ever be able to replace a good father or good mother…it’s not in God’s design for sodomites/lesbians to take the place of a good father/mother…neither is it in God’s plan for another strong male/female influence to replace a good father/mother…but it is in God’s plan that every male/female that becomes a father/mother to be the best possible parent to their children if those children are conceived according to God’s plan that he established between a husband & wife.
I say if sodomites/lesbians don’t have the equipment to be able to make a children naturally than it should be made illegal for sodomites & lesbians to have children by other means.
not necessarily.
>….could be, but it ain’t necessarily so, all the time. Now as far as being an influence, oh yeah….
Peace
I had a father until I was thirteen. Then he died. After the emotional impact of losing him, I don’t think I’ve been too negatively affected by his absence. Ultimately, we have to answer for all of our choices… one can’t blame one’s problems on their parents, or lack thereof.
I also think it’s hilarious that people say a dysfunctional straight couple has more of a right to raise a child than a loving gay couple.
It reeks of stupidity.
Also, Carlos Hernandez is hating, and that ain’t cool.
And in my first comment, when I said “hilarious,” I actually meant an amalgamation of “frightening,” “frustrating,” “rage-inducing,” and many other related feelings.
i still prefer a man.
The ideal is an involved father and mother, a mommy and a daddy. Because some people don’t meet that criteria does not mean that anything less than the best for the child should be strived for.
Ideally, yes, fathers are very important to the upbringing of a child. Unfortunately, not all of them are necessary.
Not really. My father was barely existent in my life and I turned out just fine. Ok I’m a little nuerotic but thats because I’m a scorpio
A child needs a father actively participating in their life just as much as they need a mother. There is a reason God designed parenthood between a man and a woman. They need to see the members of both roles in parenting. So YES. Every baby needs a daddy. Obviously this is ideal, there are plenty of situations where there isn’t a father or isnt’ a good role model of a father. It doesn’t mean that child doesn’t need one.
Beliefs and facts are two different things. Most people believe a father is needed. They ALL lack the facts to support it. Parents are only a part of the institutions that raise a child in western society, and the father is but 1/2 of that. Sports, Media, Education, Peers, Law, and Greater Family, as well as any other Institutions I haven’t thought of this early in the morning also play a part. By the age of 7, the dominating role of the parent is typically supplanted by these outside factors as the child learns to think for themselves.
Psychologically speaking, it only makes minor differences in the childs life, and very little valid or reliable research has been carried out into the subject.
I personally doubt that it matters, I agree with the currently accepted view that a child is affected by genetics, inheretence and Nature rather than their upbringing or Nurture.
Children are resilient and can withstand a lot. However, ideally, I think a child will have a strong fatherly figure and motherly figure (and not just masculine and feminine) who provide a stable, loving environment in which to grow.
I think my life would have been easier if I had a stable male figure in my life, when I was younger.
It would be hard, being the kid of lesbians. A father figure is a good idea, but kids don’t need one to grow up well.
fathers are very necessary- i need to find that research i once had on the statistics of our nation before and after the feminist movement that likens men to idiots (i’m not saying all feminism is anti-male, but you can’t deny that some feminists are DEFINATELY male haters). in any case the research demonstrated the low numbers of crime and teen pregnancy and the overall stability of the family and home before whereas now it’s pretty much hit and miss depending on the home…
no, absolutely not, speaking as a child of divorce, my dad left when i was about 4 years old and my mother has been the one that raised me and I turned out fine….and the same goes for friends and other people I know, it all depends on the person or people who raise you.
All I can say is, I don’t know how I would have turned out without my father. I grew up with heterosexual parents, so I cannot speak on the quality or w/e of a lesbian or gay parent’s skills in that area. I am quite sure that the children are being taught everything accordingly, it’s just that the gender playing the different roles is different.
In the 1960s ugg boots Outlet Australian surfers would put on ugg boots to warm their feet after coming in from riding the waves, and people in Australia would often wear uggs around the house during the mild winters from UGG Australia market. ugg classic mini boots are not only in Australian, but also in UK or USA. ugg mini boots being the classic ugg mini boots to the English people, makes them foot more warm in winter or another other cold weather.