December 5, 2007
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Troll
According to wikipedia.com a troll is “someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum or group with the singular intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.”
Do trolls hurt or help a discussion group?
Comments (118)
I would think the word in and of itself would connote that the person would be harmful. It seems a troll just wants to stir the water and upset people as opposed to promoting logical argument.
Just a thought…
Of course I help!!!
Krissy Cole
I would think the word in and of itself would connote that the person would be harmful. It seems a troll just wants to stir the water and upset people as opposed to promoting logical argument.
Sometimes, I purposefully seek strong responses through either 1.) A contrarian stance, or 2.) A strongly worded arugment.
Many-a-times, peole are either too lazy or too busy to contribute an thought-out or written-out idea– much less follow up on it when respones/comments are given. A good way to promote discussion is to hook them in, even with intially less-than pretty ideas or diction.
ahah that sounds like my dad, but in real life.
?
I think they hurt more than help.. sounds like they’re just stirring up trouble for amusement.
That’s a new term to me. I say help. Really, the most talked about topics are the most controversial. Some one has to get the ball rolling…
People hate trolls because they say the stuff that people should be saying but don’t have the guts to.
Generally, I think it can kill an otherwise engaging and interesting exchange.
short answer: help
i’m going to bed now.
I help, every other troll hurts.
It hurts it. Duh!
all i know is the troll I know is the one’s in the 80′s that were naked and had crazy neon green hair sticking up with that strange smirk on it’s face.
They can do either. If they get people to think more fully about their opinions then its good if they just piss people off for no reason then its bad.
^^ there he is. he hurts and its intentional
huginn
you are not a troll
nothing wrong with disagreeing and posting so in a forum…I would imagine that could be helpful and maybe even change the views of some, but if people are just posting negative comments, vulgar language and comments trying to start an argument then that is wrong and would hinder the discussion
Huginn’s the good kind of troll.
God isn’t real and Jesus was a myth.
Uhh..what?
“I would think the word in and of itself would connote that the person would be harmful.”
What the fuck has a troll ever done to you?
“Generally, I think it can kill an otherwise engaging and interesting exchange.”
So a troll is kind of like a chastity belt.
Life will be bored of we didnt have trolls.
Playing devil’s advocate can help a discussion. Arguing with every response that disagrees with your personal opinion hurts.
Yohsiph, trolls aren’t really harmful if they’re not petty. And there are some petty trolls around here.
<table class=”luna-Ent”><tbody><tr><td class=”dn” valign=”top”>1.<td valign=”top”>(in
Scandinavian folklore) any of a race of supernatural beings, sometimes
conceived as giants and sometimes as dwarfs, inhabiting caves or
subterranean dwellings. <table class=”luna-Ent”><tbody><tr><td class=”dn” valign=”top”>2.<td valign=”top”>Slang. a person who lives or sleeps in a park or under a viaduct or bridge, as a bag lady or derelict.
Trolls are real. absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence.
“Arguing with every response that disagrees with your personal opinion hurts. “
WRONG!
Hurt, 100% of the time. It’s annoying and rude, is all it is.
They always serve to hinder any sort of intelligent discussion — that’s their purpose.
However, some trolls have it down to an art, and they can be amusing in the right situation. I’ve no doubt you’ll have at least reply to this thread.
You’re sort of like the King of Xanga Dan and they’re the court jesters only you can’t have them beheaded when they become too obnoxious unlike a king would have in real life. I’m aware of the one in particular who hangs out in your comment section, a troll of many guises.
Ya know, yohsiph isn’t really a troll(or even petty). He’s just one abrasive motherfucker!
Lmao, I agree with MCTCanadian.
Those goofy looking acid trip Barbies babies.
Seriously, though.
I don’t know how it would hurt anyone at all, ever.
Just ignore them if it’s that big of a deal.
Most trolls, to me, are pretty funny. If they’re witty and say things that are pretty harsh.
… and yes. If you’ll note, Yohsiph is serving as the object lesson. What’s even better is the fact that people are falling for it…
Your readers don’t understand what a troll is. A troll purposely distracts from the discussion at hand to make what are usually personal attacks. They do not intend to “take the controversial stance,” nor do they plan on “playing the devil’s advocate.” They’re there, simply put, to piss people off — because it’s funny.
Jaspro, are you trying to be a troll?
C’mon, it’s not even convincing.
huh i saw a man go under a bridge today and the only thing i could think was that trolls were a lot taller than i’d expected. really i’m not sure i think usually i show up to late to be an active participant.
They hurt the discussion group. Their intention is to hurt it anyway.
lolol
I give up. Gunstar: No, I am not a troll, nor am I trying to be one. I am staying on subject. You are not. Therefore, you are closer to being a troll than I am.
So if that particular bit led you to think I’m trying to be a troll — well, you proved my point. Thanks.
By that definition, Dan, you are a troll. You have admitted that you post in your own Xanga ideals that are contrary to your own personal beliefs just to get others to discuss the issues. So I guess you are a troll. But does it count because you own the Xanga and we commenters or the guests? lol Mind bender…
Jasparo
They always serve to hinder any sort of intelligent discussion — that’s their purpose.
Just because it is their purpose, it doesn’ thave to be our purpose as well. The issues that Dan brings up here are deep, convoluted, and multifaceted. Much of their intellectual-richness can’t be reached until we dig well, and that is best done through a dialectic– the interplay of diametrically opposed viewpoints.
Sometimes stupid comments and rushed arguments make starting points for great ideas. Trolls have their place in the world. I say, give them their fucking bridge.
Jaspro
I give up. Gunstar: No, I am not a troll, nor am I trying to be one. I am staying on subject. You are not. Therefore, you are closer to being a troll than I am.
So if that particular bit led you to think I’m trying to be a troll — well, you proved my point. Thanks.
If you’re not a troll, then you’re definately a goblin: Touche and short-tempered.
**too
oops looks like i should get some sleep!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch%C3%A9
And my screenname is spelled Jaspro, not Jasparo. I may be a goblin, but at least I’m not a fucking idiot.
——-
use that as a starting point for intelligent discussion, and then tell me trolls don’t hinder a discussion.
Throwing petty insults doesn’t show any intelligence, really. Actually, none at all(despite claims of it doing so. they are false).
Yeah, I’m talking about you jaspro.
Lol, it’s a discussion about trolls. If you want to be a boy scout about it feel free to “stay on topic”.
Seriously, shit on my balls before acting like the exemplary troll *in a discussion about trolls* somehow “hinders any sort of intelligent discussion.” Give me a ring if you want to chat about meta game theory or the conceptual nature of knowledge, but as far as I’m concerned just talking about trolls leaves something to be desired if you’re looking for an intelligent conversation.
How many colors do trolls come in? INTELLIGENT INPUT NEEDED!!!
As many colors as it takes?
“I am not a troll” ~ Jaspro
SHUT THE FUCK UP, TROLL!
Imagine what cyber life would be like without its trolls and difference of opinion.
What i wonder is if half the trolls have the same huevos in real life? 
Oh and yes, i do agree with LadyVal.
She is so right.
i think they help, because they make people think.
In the end, everyone has to make a decision for their own selves.
Thinking is a part of that decision making and if trolls make you think, I’m all for trolls.
Jaspro
“…use that as a starting point for intelligent discussion, and then tell me trolls don’t hinder a discussion.”
Sure thing. Trolls don’t hinder discussion.
Exhibit A: Jaspro. His trolling actually led to chattered agreement:
1.) GunStar: Jaspro, are you trying to be a troll? C’mon, it’s not even convincing.
2.) Huggin: If you’re not a troll, then you’re definately a goblin: Touche and short-tempered.
3.) Yohsiph: SHUT THE FUCK UP, TROLL!
This all is also a beautiful exercise in irony. =)
Haha, good shit.
okay. you win.
Best thread eva!
And for the record, I didn’t start out trying to be a troll, but I did finish one. And the chattered agreement wasn’t about the actual topic — it was an agreement on something else. Very occasionally, that could theoretically help a discussion by taking the heat away from the original topic, allowing cooler thought to return.
In my experiences, however, trolls never have that effect.
Ya know, Jas was right. Except he gave up. They do hinder shit and stuff about arguments. Pointing away from the argument to have no ending…in the end.
Of course, I just made all that up to keep the thread going ’cause I just won’t let it go…ahem, Jaspro.
it depends on the kind of troll. sometimes they can be entertaining.
And, yohsiph, Christ isn’t a myth and he’s coming back in 2017!!! WOOT!
Jasparo
…And the chattered agreement wasn’t about the actual topic — it was an agreement on something else.
The argument was a proof in concept: Inane posts (yours) seed and build bridges to related topics.
In my experiences, however, trolls never have that effect.
You’re not very perceptive.
It all depends. Trolls can certainly hurt feelings, but they can also jumpstart a tired conversational topic or correct bad thinking.
Actually, I thought that a troll was someone who simply reads, yet never posts anything at all.
Apparently, wikipedia thinks differently.
youroutercritic, what do you mean bad thinking?
I’ve always preferred minotaurs, myself. Being a moral relativist, I liked the sexually deviant Minoan myth.
I guess it depends on if it has anything to do with what’s on topic…. and if it’s specifically aimed at someone. Sometimes, people making controversial comments make things interesting, not gonna lie.
btw Dan, the person in charge of the music department at my university looks exactly like you…. it’s so weird!
troll is my middle name
Generally, whenever I encounter someone who I consider a troll on a forum, all they are doing is either blatantly cussing out someone for no apparent reason or they are repeatedly annoying the hell out of everyone by saying the opposite of a priori knowledge. It’s pretty detrimental to any good discussion.
-David
Personally, I like Ra’Odin. He eats other Gods(like Poseidon who sent the Minotaur) and lets people do whatever they want…as long as they war and kill eachother for sacrifices. Sex? Psh, it’s every man, woman, child, animal, tree, and mythical creature for themselves. Man with man, woman with woman, man with woman on a mermaid-man; it doesn’t matter, everything goes!
I prefer made up gods that I conjured up. They’re more awesome.
David, it’s prior. You threw in the extra i!
A priori and posteriori.
The fact that you are saying that is so ironic that I have been reduced to tears of agony.
-David
It’s hard to know what a person’s motivation is behind being a troll. There are those contrary individuals who like being contrary just for the sake of being…..well….contrary. Serving as a Devil’s Advocate does create the opportunity for further thoughtful conversation, but it also can create a hostile and unproductive environment. How a “troll” is recieved really will/would depend on the group dynamic. If the forum group is open and productively discussive, then woo hoo bring it on, however if the forum group is NOT open to exploring other avenues of thought then “trolling” will be just stirring the pot. I guess it condenses down to 1) how you percieve the the comment 2) how you responde to that perception and 3) how the rest of the group percieves and responds…..
My personal feeling is simply this…if you can back up your opinion with coherant thoughts, reasoning, and/or arguements then great…but if you are simply being reactionary or arguementative for the sake of being reactionary or arguementative…then move on and don’t waste my time.
Dammit, I’ve had to make myself ridiculous to keep this thing going. To have the fingers pointed at me.
Dammit. And it is priori. I’m out. Everyone here is boring. Except yohsiph, david, and huginn. Oh, and jaspro for being a sport.
Oh, and dammit.
This blog continues to be one of the worst on Xanga.
…uhmmm… would that make you a TROLL?????
Have a great day…
Trolls are jerks – they aren’t interested in a civil discussion.
Don’t be a troll Dan.
Most of the trolls I have known on message boards bring no good to the discussion, b/c they don’t post things that are “controversial” for the sake of starting an intelligent argument, they instead go off on people and are just plain rude and mean with no sort of positive intention at all. Their purpose (in my experience anyway) is just to get people pissed off.
i don’t know, but i used to have one with green hair.
The witty ones can be funny and helpful.
now that I have heard that definition of the word troll for the first time. I dont think I would wabt to be one.
The definition is a little misleading. The classical troll from which the term derived was not merely a devil’s advocate nor just a controversial blow hard. Rather the term was meant to describe a very specific kind of behavior on forums wherein someone or a group of someones intentionally set out to disrupt the conversation by creating a flame war. “singular intention” is the key here. Trolls didn’t give a damn about what was being discussed. They weren’t trying to make the conversation more interesting or to spur more honest debate. They were specifically trying to shut down the debate altogether. Sometimes it was for the dark humor they got out of it. Other times it was for a specific reason such as revenge against particular forums for some perceived slight or another.
Back then you didn’t have to ask whether they help or hurt a discussion group, It was implicit to everyone that these were figures who were setting out to hurt the discussion group from the get go. If they weren’t succeeding then they weren’t being successful at being ‘trolls’.
Since then, lots of people have been banned for “trolling” on forums when they weren’t doing anything of the sort. They were just being controversial or loud or disruptive or argumentative or critical. But these people weren’t trolls. They were just being themselves. The definition got twisted about somehow and anyone who either posts off topic or causes hurt feelings in other forum members started to be thought of as a “troll”.
And now we even have ideas like “troll humorists” and “troll baters” and the likes. Concepts that really didn’t exist back when the term came into being. Trolling is seen as more of a kind of self-expression rather than a kind of purposeful attack.
So I guess then in my mind if you mean old fashioend trolls then they virtually always hurt the discussion group, but if you mean more modern broader usage of the term then I’d say sometimes they help and sometimes they hurt. You have to evaluate each situation individually.
Help.
I think that most people who do that are really lacking any kind of creativity, humor or originality. Most of the annoying ones on here started out writing posts with actual content, but soon it turned into trolling. My guess is that they got discouraged at the lack of comments or footprints and decided to just be annoying bastards in the desperate hope that they generate traffic at other people’s expense. Whatever, there’s a block feature available. I’m with Sweetanonymity, I doubt they have the huevos in real life. Punk ass bitches.
What a boring discussion, unlike many that I’ve read here.
Depends on their intent….
I don’t really read them…
In my ethics course this semester we were separated into groups, then given a topic we had to create an hour forty-five minute discussion for. Then, were were asked to get in front of the class and present our topic, and facilitate the discussion. If the class was slow to participate, we were told to play devil’s advocate, to seek out extreme stances in order to evoke participation.
It worked. The answers were all honest and passionate, and each person seemed to truly analyze why they believed what they believed.
I think trolls are very good, but some people don’t understand how they can use the troll’s comments to better understand their own stance. If you don’t understand how they can be good, of course it is going to seem like an unnecessary attack.
nephyo said it best. they are called trolls and not something less monsterous for a reason. they get off on upsetting and hurting people so thats what they do. in all the forums i have never seen anyone regarded as a troll in a negative way, in fact its one of the quickest ways to get booted from a forum. to give an example, a troll would be some one who would take a completely unrelated post, say, a photoblog about a waitress with backwards feet as an oportunity to insult Christians and other creationists.. it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor does it forward the discussion, its simply an opportunity for them to show contempt.
Sometimes people who post those comments help keep discussions going and really make you think, but sometimes their comments don’t even relate to the topic at hand. So trolls can help or hurt a discussion.
Trolls suck!
People hate trolls because they say the stuff that people should be saying but don’t have the guts to. ~ DrugInducedDuck
I agree with this for the most part. A lot of times trolls are saying the things that other people just fear to say because they don’t want to take the unpopular stance. And if they do they are mocked or “yelled” at because they are going against the flow. I’ve been accused of being a troll because I’ve had the nerve to say “Hey, this isn’t right and something needs to be done”. Then I get tons of messages saying how brave I am to “fight the man”.
However, I’ve seen instances where people come in and post something completely over the top (such as in a Post a picture of your pet thread they start talking about killing dogs and cats). I consider that trolling.
Trolls only hurt a discussion. I wouldn’t call huginn a troll because his responses are written to stimulate you into thinking about your position, not to insult or to get anyone heated, really. A troll is there for one purpose, to bring the discussion to the level of a streetfight. A troll brings absolutely nothing of worth into the conversation.
They hurt discussions. Trolls only post to make people angry and not start intelligent conversation. I was understood trolling as just saying things to get angry reactions from people.
That last sentence made no grammatical sense, but you understand what I mean.
It depends. If there’s a valid argument behind what they’re saying, then it helps. If their argument is “rockerboi is sooooo stupids, he doesnt no anything what a fag”, then it’s pointless. If their argument is (on a pro-Jena 6 thread) “Al Sharpton is racist – these boys should be punished,” then it’s helpful. Or, if their argument on an atheist thread is “I recently was reading this book by an atheist scientist, and the evidence in chapter shows without a doubt that Christ is the messiah,” that’s helpful. Doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong – it matters that there’s some thought and evidence behind the argument.
but the general defn of troll that I understood was someone who had no argument… so that would be always bad. I think the above definition is incomplete.
Ball
Sack.
So there’s trolls on xanga? Eek! *runs away*
I think Nephyo wrote the best definition of a troll.
I don’t understand why you would post such a stupid discussion. Everyone knows trolls are ugly little man eating creatures that never let you cross bridges with out paying a heavy toll. Just go to Chicago sometime and you will see what I mean. They even have trolls on every fucking highway! Jeesh.
I am usually amused by your troll’s!
Some of them are obviously antagonistic, attention whores (and would proudly admit it!), while others may be playing the devil’s advocate to further the conversation.
Either way, I find it equally amusing to see who takes the bait and lashes back and who uses discernment and responds maturely (or not at all).
Once again Dan, I think your site is perfect for social psychology studies!
they usually but not always impair it beyond true discussion.
sometimes, however, there’s a point that needs to be made and when the whole group ignores it, the one person who presses the issue may be labelled a “troll.”
trolls also camp in video games, but that’s a different story.
controversy is good – it keeps people thinking and the word evolving. 2 heads are better than one…
i love trolls! especially the ones with crazy purple hair and jeweled star shaped belly buttons…
and by wikipedia’s definition dan: YOU ARE A TROLL! lmao, what color hair/belly button to you have?
yea, trolls are annoying. they don’t really help or hurt the group, just sort of piss people off…i guess that could be construed as harmful, but idk really…
and teehee, troll=chastity belt. nice.
That is an inaccurate definition. If they were posting controversial things for the sake of opening a logical discussion, they wouldn’t be a troll. Actually by that definition you are a troll, Dan.
A troll is an asshole that posts obnoxious things for the strict purpose of being annoying and pissing people off. they usually start off with something that’s going to offend a particular person or the main subject of the group. Then people get pissed and respond and they come back with such snappy things as “while i wuz fckin ur mom las nite she told me how embarissed she wuz 2 hav given birth 2 u!!!!!!1″ If an Admin blocks them from the forum they get a new screen name and pick up right where they left often, and often bring other troll friends.
Trolls never help anything. In fact their goal is to be as unhelpful as possible.
with that definition I would have to say hurt…going into a conversation with the intent to start and argument is stupid. Whatever happened to the ugly little things with multi-colored hair and diamond belly buttons?
I’d say a majority of trolls have such a poor grasp on the concepts of satire and basic English that their presence is more irritating than useful.
They tend to derail things.
Although, I will say some trolls actually answer the OP, just not politely.
It helps to realize going into a forum or whatever that there are going to be some jerks, and you can’t really let anything they say get to you.
HURT 100% OF THE TIME!!!
People who post pictures of goatse in the middle of a thread are trolls. And possible have some strange habits.
i thought a troll was an annoying grumpy man that ate children (also a short person).
Most of the trolls I’ve seen on xanga have never posted on their own sites. Instead, they use other peoples sites to argue about what someone else thinks. That is generally not helpful.
Hurt.
hurtful!
they may help in one discussion but hurt in another. some I have seen go to other sites and cause problems there. way too many to call them helpful.
if someone writes with the intention of making arguments, then it’s pointless
Usually they hurta discussion, but I don’t know that I have enough message board experience to really offer an opinion. Why did this post suddenly become protected, Dan?
“Contrarianism is creativity for the untalented”
- Dennis Miller