January 24, 2008
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The Homosexual Gene
A short time ago, a person left a comment on my site that went something like this:
“If homosexuality is genetic, why doesn’t homosexuality die out? Homosexuals cannot reproduce so if it was genetic, it would have died out.”
If homosexuality is genetic, why doesn’t it die out?
Comments (173)
THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT.
If it were genetic, it wouldn’t die out because people have dormant genes. Its the same thing as two brown eyed people giving birth to a kid with blue eyes.
Then again, it isn’t genetic.
oops. Didn’t mean to yell. Actually, I was just thining about that the other day. According to Darwin’s theory, homosexuals should be extinct. So… ???
I don’t think it is a genetic. So it isn’t relevant to the question..
Well duh!
For the same reasons that when one identical twin is homosexual (a clone) the other very likely will may not be. It’s not genetic
Because Christians force their gay sons to get married and procreate. Plus, the recessive gene and shit.
it’s not genetic, but its not a choice, either.
Because when they are covering up their homosexuality with a boyfriend or girlfriend, they accidentally start popping babies.
Just kidding I don’t know.
I don’t think it’s something you pass on, but I do think some of it is from having too much of the opposite hormone, and that’s not genetic, as far as I know.
Interesting…I never thought of that. I have no idea, lol.
Survival of the fittest is about being able to pass your genes on. Lets say your mom has black hair and your dad has blonde hair. Since you get half your genes from each parent, you get the gene for black hair and the gene for blonde hair. However, your hair will most likely be black because the gene for black hair is dominant, BUT THE GENE FOR BLONDE HAIR IS STILL IN YOUR DNA. Given the right circumstances your child can have naturally blonde hair even though you don’t. The case is the same for any gene including your alleged homosexuality gene. I learned this in the 6th grade.
Perhaps they mastered cloning many many years ago and never told anyone.
Maybe the gene is recessive? I don’t know much about such things.
Because homos are a plague, they are a disease.
Because there are bisexuals. Sometimes bisexual girls attract guys with the fact that they would ‘do’ a girl. Guys love abundances, so there is a greater chance of proliferation to the homosexual gene.
PSunited1…
:*(
because it’s not genetic
i’ve always wondered that too. i mean…in my field of study, most people believe in evolution and survival of the fittest and stuff like that…so from an evolutionary standpoint the “gene” [if such a gene existed] wouldn’t have served any real evolutionary point. so why wasn’t it wiped out long ago–like way back in grecian times when homosexuality was pretty much promoted, before “christians force[d] their gay sons to get married and procreate”…
i think its something that happens during development in the womb . . .
i know that some people are born as homosexuals, but i’m curious to know whether some people become homosexuals by choice.
Why does it matter.. they’re homosexuals, get over it and get over yourself.
There probably isn’t one gay gene that make homosexuality a on/off thing. If there were genetic factors, they would probably work in some sort of combination that increases the chance for homosexual outcomes. Those factors stay at low level of effectiveness since if they did become some super-overiding uncontrollable factor, it would breed it self out since homosexual couples are not really known for passing on their genes.
So there might be genes that leave one more open to homosexual outcomes compared to someone else, but whether or not they get fully expressed is more of an environmental thing.
There must be some genetics study that’s run numbers on what sort of equilibrium levels a “gay gene” could be maintained in the population.
Homosexuality is a natural side-effect of genetic factors that help women to have more children, a study suggests.
It could be recessive.
That’s just answering your question of “if”, but honestly? I don’t think it’s genetic. And that’s coming from someone who’s been gay all her life. I don’t think it’s a choice, either, mind you. But genetic? Nuh uh.
Gays and Lesbians do have biological children all the time.
Very simple, SIN dont die out!
“To those who think it is a choice, i have to ask: Who in the hell would
choose to be gay, in this country or any other? I mean, come on now,
people. No tax breaks, no marriage, general disdain from the moral
majority, the possibility of being tied to a fence and beaten to death,
having a dick in your ass, being assured by bible-thumpers of your
impending and unavoidable trip to the fires of Hell… Where do i sign
up? The perks sound great!”
and
“Imagine for a moment that the country instead voted to ban prayer, or
halt the future building of any churches. If the bible were declared
inherently opposed to American values an voted out of circulation by
“the majority,” most of you would revolt. it is religious
discrimination, right? Well, sorry to say, but implying that
homosexuals are inherently immoral and inferior in their rights to the
average straight American is just as discriminatory and wrong.
No one
is created unequal (except midgets). You keep saying it’s a choice, but for God’s sake
why would anyone choose to be gay in this country?
I know several gay men and women raised in christian environments, and
their constant battle between God and self is neither pretty nor
tolerable. these are some of the smartest, most caring individuals i
have ever known and i have had to hold them while they sob and promise
themselves they will deny their nature to appease their parents’ God.
It.
Is. Not. A. Choice. Just like being born black wasn’t a choice. Maybe
God’s just trying to test you all and see if you learned anything from
His son, and you are all failing miserably. I guarantee you, when
Judgement Day comes, there will be just as many fags in heaven as there
are you fine upright straights. Maybe not as many, but certainly as
even a ratio as is currently here on Earth. I believe that with every
ounce of faith i have, and mine is no less valid because it is not
based wholly on your bible.”
Quoted from a very brilliant area businessman.
I’ve always thought it’s interesting that people think it’s genetic with nothing more than circumstantial evidence. At least that I’ve seen.
It makes much more sense from a logical perspective for it to be unrelated or at least not dependent on genes.And I think, no matter whether genetic or environmental, that “natural” is a strange term to describe it. That’s just my two cents. I feel that clearly animals are not designed to be homosexual, so it can’t really be natural in the way I think of the word. That may be something people jump on me for, but I’m just calling it as I see it. I’ve talked to gay people who don’t think it’s “natural,” so… that doesn’t really prove anything, but it sounds like it could.
Just because something is genetic does not mean it is genetically transmittable.
More likely, it is a brain thing — those are only to some extent genetically inheritable and imprintable. Cf., manic depression.
But I don’t think there is a single, inheritable “homosexuality gene.”
There is the fallacy in that argument! It assumes much.
@fyo_films - “A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
I never thought that homosexuality was genetic, so I don’t really have an answer to that.
I’ve never thought about it that way before, but the recessive genes and them reproducing to “protect themselves” could be one reason, yeah?
because evolution can’t do it
that’s a very good question, assuming homosexuality is, indeed, genetic, which i do not believe. …well, huh!
@Single4Eternally - “SIN dont die out!” —you’re right. neither does being judgmental and unaccepting, either, apparently. hopefully, poor grammar isn’t genetic, either, or else your kids are screwed.
One, homosexuals aren’t incapable of reproduction. Lesbians have kids all the time. Gay men can donate sperm. Two, it keeps the population in check.
I don’t think it’s genetic; I think that there are dozens, if not hundreds of variables involved, including hormonal influence in the womb and in early childhood development. But I think that the comment is also based on an assumption that’s obviously untrue; homosexuals are physically capable of having children.
Variables determining sexual preference: socialization, genes, environment, and choice. It all boils down to nature and nurture – like just about everything else.
Its not genetic!
Damnit, what the hell is this? Just because there is an abnormality in the brain makes it genetic?
Ignorance all around me.
It could be (and actually behaves like) a recessive gene. A person can be a carrier of the gene and never know because it doesn’t show up in their phenotype. The just pass it along to their children and eventually 2 carriers mate and have a child who expresses the recessive gene. Also, it should be noted, that many homosexual couples do have children (via artificial insemination and such) so they would pass on the “gay gene” that way as well. Although I believe homosexuality is more epigenetic and multifactorial.
But what the hell do I know, I just studied psychology and genetics for 3 years…
I have a number of ideas:
1.) A fraction of those truely genetically determined for homosexuality fold in to societal pressure and settle down for conventional famalies. They have kids this way.
2.) A collection of genetic factors are responsible for homosexuality (say genes A, C, F). While all gay gays have combos of A,C,F; the genes themselves don’t cease to exist since they exist in straight individuals (but combined with mostly straight genes).
3.) That homosexuality is recessive
4.) Or that homosexuality is a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. That environmental factors are necessary to trigger the genetic presupposition. Without the trigger, the individual grows up straight and further propgate gay-tending genes.
@EarthsAzureLight -
Damnit, what the hell is this? Just because there is an abnormality in the brain makes it genetic?
Hormonal production and regulation are governed by gene-coded proteins. Certainly, there are varaitions in the natural population for this. If straight-ness is genetically determined, then (I reason) gay-ness must also be genetically determined.
a) Yes, it is genetic. Read Adam’s Curse by Bryan Sykes.
b) Sterility can be genetic. Yet people are still sterile today. It is a recessive gene.
c) Just because someone is homosexual does not mean they won’t have children.
Possibilities:
Perhaps everyone has the gay gene and certain circumstances trigger it into action.
But I think it’s more like a previous commenter said. It’s a combination of genetic code that manifests itself in homosexual tendencies. One gene by itself won’t change a person’s orientation. That’s my theory anyway.
@porcupinesol - you’re right. neither does being judgmental and unaccepting,
either, apparently. hopefully, poor grammar isn’t genetic, either, or
else your kids are screwed.
How in the world I should accept something that THE BIBLE said it is a sin? Homosexual is a sin and I am not bending over to them. This is where people are scare because they don’t want to be labeled.
Before you cite someone’ grammar, go look up the word “unaccepting” and see if it’s in the dictionary. Also, your grammar isn’t the best either, so you don’t have lot to say.
plenty of homosexuals have children
It’s not genetic
That argument isn’t valid no matter way you look at it because homosexuals can reproduce. Many repress their sexual orientation and marry someone of the opposite sex. If not, they can always get an egg/sperm donor. Also, the argument many have made about recessive genes could play a part. That said, I don’t think sexual orientation is genetically inherited. Neither do I think it’s a conscious choice.
OK – There is some genetic link to homosexuality. Twin studies indicate the twins are much more likely to both be homosexual than siblings or offspring. Likewise, is a sibling is homosexual, there is a greater chance that the other sibling will also be homosexual, though the concordance is not as high as with twins.
Second, genetics are slightly more complicated than “one specific gene = gay.” And the majority of research has indicated that prenatal environment may be more related to homosexuality than genes. Either way, strong evidence exists to support a BIOLOGICAL cause.
(Oh, and ironically, the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality, it condemns (and even this is debated as well) homosexual BEHAVIOR. Therefore, as long as you’re having good ol’ fashioned hetero-sex, you’re not sinning. Which means if it was a gene, Christianity would be encouraging it to be passed on.)
@jayneenaa -
It’s not genetic
You’re stupid.
@wxcruiser -
exactly. And in today’s society many get married to hetros because they are not out yet/ashamed/ want a family etc… Maybe when we stop making such a big issue out of it, let homosexuals adopt, etc… it won’t be as prevalent. Who knows.
I really don’t think this can be linked explicitly to genes. I researched into this subject while studying psychology and at the time in 2005, there wasn’t any research pointing to any specific gene being passed that led to people being homosexual.
Yes there has been proof that twins are more likely to be homosexual, but because there are so few homosexual twins in this case, the evidence is not conclusive and the nature or nurture aspect of it had not been established. Unless this has changed since then, there are more than purely genetic causes for this (Unless you mean genetic in the way depression is genetic, which is influenced more by environment than genetics)
And actually in rechecking sources now, I don’t see evidence (research and documentation) stating that there is an explicit genetic link.
If you have such, please link me to it.
I googled quickly and found a WebMD article that spoke about studies regarding chromosomes, but it has thus far been inconclusive, so, I’m not sure where to look.
IF it were genetic, it would be a genetic abnormality (like Down’s Syndrome or albinoism).
They can still reproduce, but it would be an “unnatural” process for them, in the same way that homosexuality would be unnatural to heteros.
@JimiRy - I also know some gay people. Half of them were abused as children. Whether homosexuality is nature or “nurture” I don’t know. Nobody can prove it one way or another. It seems to be more and more prevelant in today’s society. Is that because there are people with an agenda for promoting it? By the way, the Bible prophecies the increase in sexual immorality, along with many other things. You have these young kids who are being taught that it is perfectly normal. Well, sorry, it’s not the norm, if it were then two homosexual people would be able to procreate on their own.
As for the constant battle between God and themselves, this is the norm. Not just with homosexuality but with anything. It’s called sin. Homosexuality is a sin, just as any other sin. You have a human nature to sin. Don’t you battle against things that you want to do, but you don’t, because you know you’re not supposed to or because you know it’s not good for you? If everybody did what they wanted to without a conscience, we would be in worse shape than we already are.
It seems to me that most people that bash Christianity haven’t read the Bible, explored their spirituality or questioned the secular way of thinking – for quite some time I was included in this category. I based my thoughts about spirituality on my feelings instead of being open minded and exploring. There is not any one argument that I can tell you that says that most likely God exists. It’s a combination of many evidences and a conclusion, honestly, when you are close minded to it, I don’t think anyone can tell you. You need to find out for yourself, I hope you do someday.
FYI – Being born black or short is genetic, it is not an action. Homosexuality is an action. It is possible to be born homosexual but not act on it, like your Christian friends. If some are born homosexual it is my belief that it is just like being born with the tendency towards alcoholism, you may have a tendency towards it, that doesn’t make it the right choice.
Please don’t take this as an attack, I’m simply responding. Sometimes it’s hard to get that across in text.
@JimiRy - Now I just saw your other comment and have to respond to it. Humans and animals are different. Humans have minds. Animals also eat their own babies and fecies – does that make it right for humanity?
Homosexuals can’t reproduce?!!! Since when?
They can’t reproduce with each other.
That would be assuming that the homosexual gene, were there one, would be a single dominant gene that would be an on/off trait. Since identical twins are not always of the same sexual orientation, that’s obviously not the case.
Even if there was a homosexual gene that was recessive, which also seems like an over-simplification (again, identical twins), it would explain one way in which the “gene” would get passed down. It’s like for sickel-cell anemia. You have to have both parents pass down the recessive gene in order for that trait to be expressed (ie for the child to be gay), and maybe that child doesn’t reproduce but if the gene is recessive then it’s “hidden” and gets carried by homosexuals who then continue to pass it on.
And then there’s the much likelier possibility that homosexuality could be the combination of several different genes and proteins together, or even that certain genetic makeups make people more likely to be gay but they still might need something else to “trigger” the trait as can happen with, say, mental disorders or family histories of things like heart disease.
Genetics is much more complicated than just X and Y..
it’s not genetic
Just puzzled on this one and I dont think there is a true answer.
because if it is genetic, the homosexuals that are out there are really bi-sexual and are breeding and continuing to carry on the gene. If it is…that would be the only way to explain it.
I don’t think its genetic, but I do think its usually biological due to hormone influence in utero. And I’m not counting the people that just have sex with anything that moves, their issues are filling some psychological void. Regarding genetic issues dying out, the genes don’t forget and just keep passing traits on.
Ok, many of you say it is not genetic, but also many of you say it is not a choice. Please explain how both can be true–in layman’s terminology, please. I’m not an expert at anything nor the most intelligent person there is.
@mickies_world - exactly.
gotta love coming in here and reading comments cuz there are three type of answers. Yes, No, and Maybe. Or Douno, for that matter.
Answers are just clashing into each other! It is just rather so funny. Then again, it is funny when I noticed people respond with really blunt [sometimes hurtful] answer.
Hope this doesn’t come back to me. Lol… ow, if it does.
I imagine its not quite that simple. Its a choice I suppose, but some poeple are going to be inclinded one way or another by their upbringing and the circumstances of their life combined with thier environment. Gays have always been around and probably always will. Do I agree with their lifestyle? No. Do I support their rights? To an extent (with the exception of gay marriage which I do not support). But they’ve always been among us.
@Single4Eternally - I think that u actually have a few “grammatical errors” in your comment to porcupinsol- Sorry about YOUR kids!
Because it’s a messed up gene. It’s like..some imbalance of hormones or something, if I remember right. Also, there’s what someone said above me: because Christians force their gay children to get married and procreate.
Why do we have mentally challenged people when many of them don’t have the ability to take care of themselves, let alone reproduce?
Are they a sin, problem, disease, whatever you call homosexuals, too?
Porcupinesol- DONT BE SO MEAN. Be Nice.
@Single4Eternally -
Heh, “bend over,” heh, heh.
I generally believe with you. The Bible clearly states that it is a sin. In God’s eyes, where one sin equals another, I don’t see how you can say that a lifelong homosexual who does not repent could be in heaven. That’s the same as saying a non-repentant mass murderer could be in heaven.
“Bend over” Hehe
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6519-survival-of-genetic-homosexual-traits-explained.html
Homosexuality has nothing to do with genetics… It is either a choice or a learned behavior…The fact is that there has been no scientific proof found to support the “gay gene” theory…
It isn’t a valid point at all. If it is a recessive gene, much like blue eyes, it will be passed along by people who also carry the more dominate heterosexual gene and exhibit no signs of homosexual behavior themselves.
Because there have always been some homosexuals who choose not to live that lifestyle.
Maybe becuase it’s not genetic. And I havn’t read any posts yet, but I’m sure someone called homosexuality sick.
I believe it’s not so much a valid choice as much as it is psycological. I don’t think people choose to be homosexual, I think it’s just what they’re attracted to psycologically.
interesting thought and i’m going to broaden the scope here a little bit in my answer because this pertains to all humanity not just gays:
the other day I was listening to Ravi Zacharias on the radio answering questions at a conference he was at some time ago and while I forget the question he touched on a very interesting point regarding our sinful nature. He mentioned the Richard Dawkins and others like him have set forth the idea that we can’t really punish people for wrongdoing because it’s embedded in their DNA. Then Ravi said he thought about this for a while and it made all the more sense what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus in John 3, “You must be born again.” And you know- perhaps, just perhaps, our DNA is corrupted by the Fall and sin is embedded into our physical nature. That doesn’t excuse our sin, it simply underlines our need to be reborn of the Spirit. And it helps make sense of why our Spirit wars against our flesh (as Christians) because while we’re constantly trying to do what is right in God’s eyes our corrupted physical body with all its earthly desires wants to pull us in the opposite direction.
BUT I say all this hypothetically because there- as of yet- has not been a single gene isolated as “the Gay gene.” I’m still very much convinced it’s psychological and developmental in nature. However, we all have a weakness for some sin- some violent ones, some incessant liars, some steal needlessly, some are obsessed with all things sexual… I’m not yet sure it’s purely carved in our DNA or if it’s just a spiritual reality manifesting itself physically.
I don’t think “genetic” is the right way to put it. But it’s also not a choice. Is there a word for something that isn’t decided that isn’t genetic? Am I just crazy? Whatever.
@weirdbean - Doesnt it also say in the Bible that the only way that God will deny YOU is if you deny HIM? (yeah…it does- Mark 3:22-30 and Mathew 12:31-32.)
“…he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation,”
A gay or homosexual person can accept Christ just as an alcoholic, a drug addict, or a mass-murderer can accept Christ. Jesus Christ offers salvation to everyone- Not just a “select few”.
Can someone accept Christ, not change their lifestyle, and still go to heaven? The Bible teaches that if someone has truly accepted Christ into his life, nothing can keep him out of heaven. ( John 10:28 Christ says [about Christians],
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand.”
There appears to be a growing amount of evidence that the factors that produce homosexuals (or at least people more inclined toward homosexual) are not genetic. And I’ve seen sexual-orientation change too often to believe that it’s somehow genetically hardwired.
Because, Homosexuals still reproduce. Just because they don’t feel right in marriage with a family, they still do it to keep up appearances, etc. The law of genetics also states that one could carry the gene but not express it if it is a recessive allele.
Interesting topic. But who the hell knows.
It is genetic, it’s called SIN, man sins because we inherited it from Adam. homosexuality is sin just like any other sin, it’s natural for us to sin, even Christian’s sin,we just don’t live in it. If someone calls themself a Christian yet continues to sin openly against God’s word, I would say the friut they are producing shows they aren’t a true Christian. We try to label sins as some worse than others and in our mind there are sins that are worse than others. But in God’s eyes sin is sin, ALL sin is against God, it’s ALL punishable. Yes, that mean homosexuality too! Sorry you folks that call yourself a Christian and a homosexual, you can’t serve two masters. This is what God says, not me, so don’t rant at me about it.
It is not entirely an inherited because someone in your family before you was homosexual type of genetic inclination. The studies done on the appearance and continuation of homosexual tendencies (done with various animals after they figured it out with rats) indicates that there is a natural cap that we reach that is based on population density and resource availability. When either becomes too scarce (space or food) but a population continues to grow, two things happen: violence amongst all members of the population begins to increase and homosexuality becomes more prevalent. As such, it follows that there comes a point where bodies who are copulating become cognizant of their difficulties and begin to produce more and more a) homosexual offspring or b) violent offspring. The violent offspring tend to come earlier and more often, but should a population continue in its growth and/or restriction of space, then it tends to control itself even when its members can’t seem to control themselves.
@aj_mudd - AJ, it also says that those who have trully accepted Christ will turn from their sin and not live in it. That’s called friut of the Spirit. If there’s no evidence of this change that God gives to our lives thru Christ, then we can only come to one conclusion, that that person was not trully regenerated.
@UnworthyofHisgrace -
Where, as a christian (so you can’t use Old Testament buddy, Jesus ruled that out), does GOD (not Paul, either mandate direct or from Jesus) say that homosexuality is a sin?
@Desinflan - exactly!!!!!
@kantianjester - Dude, are you kidding, God wiped out two whole cities because of it, um…Sodem and Gomorrah, remember. Even Lots wife wasn’t spared when she turned back to look when she was told not to, because her heart was still there. Man, what more do you need. sheesh!
this is an ongoing debate in our home.
if it is genetic, why are straight people producing homosexuals? and is bisexuality genetic, too?
nah. it is NOT genetic.
@kantianjester - Old Testament, New Testament, it’s ALL God’s word to me so it’s all truth for me. God said it, I will not argue about it. Just stating facts of HIS word, not mine!
Population control!
Kidding. Or maybe not.
Whether or not it’s genetic, it seems to be a pretty natural thing that isn’t uncommon with species other than ourselves as well.
Because it’s not.
Hmm… I don’t think being homosexual is passed down from parents and such, but I learned in Psych class that the amount of testosterone you get when in your mother’s womb affects how you identify yourself…or something like that.
There are recessive and dominant genes.
Does the reason why people are homosexual have to be explained? We just are and that’s that.
1. The miracles of science have allowed them to have children =_=
2. Like homosexuals never have brothers or sisters that are carriers >_>
Man people are slow
Wow… what an ignorantly contexted question.
@aj_mudd - either a choice or a learned behavior…The fact is that there has been no scientific proof found to support the “gay gene” theory…
Then by your reasoning, straight-ness is either a choice or a learned behavior. That the lot of us are naturally attracted to those of the opposite sex by conscience choice alone.
I’m not certain about the genetic basis of homosexuality but if it that is the case – there is also such thing as multifactorial inheritance. Which means, it is not purely genetic because environment plays a huge factor in it.
Genetics isn’t that simple. If homosexuallity has a genetic component to it, then its a recessive trait, which means it can be passed along through heterosexual carriers. This is how traits like hemophilia, color blindness, and cystic fibrosis travel through the gene pool.
closeted homosexuals that are too ashamed to reveal themselves have heterosexual sex … ?
i dont know. i dont even know if it’s genes. maybe hormones? i dont know..
“Sorry you folks that call yourself a Christian and a homosexual, you can’t serve two masters.”
unworthyofhisgrace is a moron. what exactly do homosexuals serve?
fuck that. i have no master.
@aj_mudd - Are you saying that some that “truly accepts Christ into their lives” can continue to live in sin? I’m a bit confused about what you are saying or implying. Surely one who continues to practice sinful behavior, as defined in Scripture, demonstrates that they really don’t understand the Lordship of Christ, don’t you think? If Jesus is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.
@kantianjester - Wrong. Jesus did not rule out the Old Testament. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. You can’t pick and choose. Either all Scripture is God-breathed or none of it is.
@JTHJTHJTH - what is it then? (just out of curiosity)
I’m under the impression that the gene is something similar to the color blind gene (along with many others). . you can carry it without it actually being a homosexual yourself. So its a matter of whether its dominant or not, aside from that there are plenty of people who are gay or lesbian and know it but hide it with a heterosexual relationship because of religious beliefs etc. Gays and lesbians also have biological children fairly often.
Yet as a lesbian I’m not even sure what ’causes’ homosexuality.
Don’t have a clue but I like Jimiry’s answer. Some of these comments are disturbing. I thought God loves ALL people, not just the straight ones!
If it were genetic, there’d be a myriad of reasons why it wouldn’t die out.
But it isn’t.
The end.
First of all, they DO have kids. I have a gay cousin with 2 biological daughters (he was married for 25 years). I had a gay co-worker who had a biological child (with a sperm donor). Really, this argument isn’t valid.
Because we have dormant genes as well, genes carried by heterosexuals.
Look into Xq28 sometime.
i dont believe that there is a gene. i believe that you might have genes to make you more prone to homosexual behavior, but not one that makes you that way for sure.
lightningrichy is right. and whoever you got that quote from is not too logical.
Um, because homosexuals can reproduce. That’s retarded.
Not that I think people can only be gay because of a gay gene. But seriously.
I happen to know a gay man and a lesbian who have procreated. If the child turns out straight, i’m going to laugh my ass off.
That is a very good point. It must not be genetic. I always thought that theory might be debunked.
The industrial revolution flipped a bitch on evolution…Or it’s a recessive gene?
That is an extremely simplistic look at genetics.
Heart disease or cleft palate, for instance, are multifactorial. That is to say, a person may be predisposed genetically and when in combination with environmental factors, perhaps in the womb or from their lifestyle (precipitating factors), it raises their chances of being afflicted by it.
Okay, wow. Because some people go their entire lives pretending to be straight, and they have children. Some lesbian couples will get a sperm doner and have children. Some families are just prone to that gene, whether it be recessive or not.
That’s kind of like asking why albinism doesn’t die out. Honestly.
http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/pdf.php?id=31
and
I suggest a thorough search of the APA’s journal article database before declaring that there is no biological link. A lot of research has indicated that homosexuality, like many traits, is a complex interaction of genetics, prenatal hormones, and early development. Overall, the APA stands firm that homosexuality is not a choice. It is inappropriate to compare it to murderers or alcholics – it is not a disorder of personality – like ASP present in serial murderers, nor is it related to the involvement of foreign substances – addictions.
Lastly, this question relates to genetics and science. I think we should put away our Bibles as evidence in this discussion.
@aj_mudd - Psshh…no…
You have to repent. You can’t just “accept Christ” – what does that even mean if you don’t repent? Just that you know he is the savior of the word? Demons know that.
Sorry Dan, we have turned a discussion about genetics into one about religion.
hmm. well everyone has an opinion, or they are neutral, my opinion is that homosexuality is something that has resulted from Americans, and other people, but America influences other nations ( albiet positive or negative ) becoming desensitized to Christianity. I am not saying I am Christian or that I believe that Christianity is the “only way” I do know that originally, in school, people taught Creationism, and there was a lot of Christian influence in the government and that over time churches, which helped people, w/ clothes, food, shelter, ect. were replaced w/ welfare and link cards and section 8 housing. I am not saying any of this is wrong I am simply “putting it out there” By researching the orgin of specific topics, we can all become more educated and more knowledgable.
@Insomnia_Journal - They serve themselves to whatever sin they want to induldge in. I’m not just talking about homosexuals either. The author of sin is the devil, so that is who those who choose to sin serve weither they believe it or not, the devil is the great deceiver. As someone said on here before, one of his greatest deceptions is that he doesn’t exist. And by the why, you can call me a moran or whatever you like, doesn’t bug me in the least. To be ridiculed for Christ’s sake just shows my relationship to Him, you only make me happy when you make fun of me or call me names because of my faith. It’s an honor to be called names because Christ was treated the same way…why, because He loved! I don’t comment on here because I want to make someone mad of cause someone to hate me, I talk about Christianity on here because I want others to know God’s love thru Christ. Anyway, this is too lang as it is, I could keep going but I’ll spare you the bordom.
thats a good point.
but then again, the homosexual gene doesn’t exist.
Firstly, whn it comes to genetics, there are a lot of things that can determine certain traits. If homosexuality is caused by genetics, then there must be a plausible but complex explanation for that. It’s not as simple as it may seem, you need to really understand genetics to understand the situation.
Secondly, do not bring up religion into a discussion about genetics. That’s just.. pointless.
Anyway, if it is due to genes, then it must be my parents’ fault. >.< I don’t blame them though, this is who I am, and I am okay with it.
Because even though they may be homosexual, they can still reproduce… by sperm donation or lesbians getting their own eggs fertilized by donated sperm, so it can still be spread, I guess… I dunno.
“Because Christians force their gay sons to get married and procreate. Plus, the recessive gene and shit.”
100% correct in answering the question, and still patently sarcastic. He is evolving
Papers full of words don’t prove a thing. Maybe faith is real, and maybe it’s not, but if that’s not the topic being discussed, don’t bother. I don’t think it’s really worth the time to read another person preaching about something. -.-
I’m not gonna get into the religion thing, I’ll just get too vicious on my polemics.
Anyway, homosexuality gene -> who knows.
well for one, due to things like…religion for example, some people repress their homosexual tendencies and do reproduce.
then I suppose people with Downs syndrome would die out because they dont reproduce
@stillooking2find -
Should you not also be following ALL the laws of Leviticus? Shouldn’t you have to ritually bathe yourself, abstain from unclean meats and not eat that meat which has been cooked with dairy? Shouldn’t you also be restricted from picking and choosing? Further, if Jesus does not seek to remove or destroy the law of the old people (known as THE COVENANT) why does he proclaim himself the New Covenant?
Answers are quite clear. Leviticus specifies that all of its laws pertain only to the Jews. Because it is specific to the people whom God made a covenant to, the councils that made the foundation and substantiated the early Church, starting with the apostles as recorded in acts all the way through the popes and councils and everything else to this day. As such, it has been decided that as the New Covenant came, it applied to people who joined into the new faith and continued belief in the god “I Am” and therefore it was able to evade all the old restrictions and found itself looking at Jesus’s Beatitudes as moral and religious grounding. So do you pick and choose? Do you follow all those laws in Leviticus where there is the only real law against sodomy (not even homosexually unique, by the way. It also excludes feminine homosexuality as a sin too)? Do you mean to tell me that you find yourself morally righteous and capable enough to denounce and deny human rights to another human being on the basis of a book which you yourself do not uphold?
It isn’t genetic.
People are dumb.
Genes? WTF? You mean we’re not predestined?
I think that Calvin guy fed me a load of crap.
There’s a really simple way to test this recessive gene theory. Just have a gay man and a lesbian woman have a child together. If homosexuality is genetic and recessive, the parents would each have both chromosomes containing the “gay gene.” The child would therefore receive both, and would be homosexual.
But it’s not genetic. At least not purely genetic.
@UnworthyofHisgrace -
Well What I need is your God in his latest revelation defining what it is he will hold you in contempt for. Plain and simple. You still evade the question, by the way, because I asked you for something from Jesus. Is there NOTHING? I ask this question because Christians, with exception of about… well this one issue don’t seem to reflect back on the Old Testament and do enough to defame and disobey it I thought it was an unfair burden for you to have to support your eating of unclean meats, your disobeying of mattress laws, disregard for kosser dietary laws that go beyond the types of meat, your moving of the sabbath (all of this is by and large, only a few Christian sects go back that far). Besides, when God put down the laws in Leviticus, he didn’t assign order of egregiousness, and all are equally condemnable. So really, is there anything that Jesus said to specifically bar humans from engaging in homosexual behavior?
Well, for one, some people don’t realize they’re gay and they continue to reproduce.
I believe homosexuality is not purely biological. I agree that it isn’t a choice, I should know, but many things play a part in the development of sexuality. If it were only biological, straight parents would never have gay babies.
Biology has to play a role, though, because there are gay bees and shit in the wild. Animals don’t have morals, so they can’t sin. Explain that one, bible thumpers.
@kantianjester - First, I live under Grace, not the law, but I strive to keep the law because it is God’s. That same law can’t condemn me any longer because my sin has been paid for by Christ. Yes, I stumble and sin, but I don’t live to sin and do it repeatedly.
About your question on what Jesus has to say…umm… Jesus and God are one and the same, also two different people , explain that one, no one can, it wasn’t meant for us to understand it with out frail minds.So since God gave the Ten Commandments that means it was also Jesus. You say the Ten Commandments says nothing about homosexuality being wrong, sorry, you are wrong there. God specifically said Marriage was between a man and woman, He ordained it. Adultry is one of the Ten Commandments right. If a man or woman has sex before marriage it’s adultry, SO if a man in God’s eyes can’t marry a man and woman marry a woman, then there you have it. If they have sex together they are sinning because in God’s eyes they can’t marry each other. You can run all around it ALL you like, God’s truth speaks plenty loud, if you want to find ways to make it fit how YOU want it to, go for it. It’s between you and God, I have no part in it. All I can do is warn folks, I can’t change ANYTHING in someones heart. I couldn’t even change my own heart, it was dead to God til He brought it to life. Thats all I have to say on all this. Don’t feel I need to say anything else. You can ramble stuff all you want and it doesn’t change God and His word in the least bit. Cya!
Hormonal imbalance in the brain?
On the flipside, if it is genetic, then it should die out eventually… in the exact same way that researchers say in 100 years there may no longer be any redheads.
I have yet to see any proof that it’s genetic; only hearsay. So I’m waiting until someone shows me valid research one way or the other.
For the same reason that other sins haven’t died out.
Why do we still have natural blondes, natural redheads, naturally pale-skinned people, blue eyes, green eyes, grey eyes, flat noses, or any other trait?
They’re recessive, so two non-blonds can give birth to a blond.
Besides, it’s MUCH more complicated than things like hair color. Homosexuality is factored in by many different genes, so there is no one “gay gene”. Also, prenatal environment (which can be affected by the woman’s body, how many times she has been pregnant, etc.) correlate with sexuality.
There are such things as lesbians, and lesbians can reproduce via artificial insemination.
Dumbass.
if homosexuality is caused by a gene, wouldn’t that take away free will since you can’t fight who you are/biology? also, wouldn’t that imply that God makes you gay (even though it says homosexuality is a sin in the Bible) since God gives us our genes?
the arguments can go on, but I don’t want to post them all.
“its something that happens during development in the womb” yeah, like the mother drank, or the baby got hit in the head to many times…..
just kidding, I don’t think it genetic. But I don’t see why people say that it isn’t a choice either, if you don’t want to be gay then stop. Sure it may be hard like quiting smoking (though I think it would be harder) it can be done if you want to.
My personal belief is that it is a sin, but even excluding that, I just can’t see how people are attracted to the same sex in a sexual manner. It is entirely foreign to me and I can not imagine it.
@UnworthyofHisgrace -
On a final note, the notion that God and Jesus are the same entity didn’t arise until other religions, namely Judaism and Islam, accused it of being polytheistic by worshiping both a god and its son. The trinity was itself a side step and didn’t find itself in the bible until much after the fact of accusation. Further, even if you hold God and Jesus to be the same thing, the traditional interpretation of adultery by Jewish law (and if you want to maintain that Jesus was there neither to destroy nor alter Jewish law you MUST accept this) is sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who is married but not to him (Adultery). Should you find yourself not believing that that is precisely what it meant, it is clear that in hebrew there are two different verbs for adultery and simply sleeping with others and that is based upon the martial status of those who are having intercourse. As such, your argument about the Ten Commandment fails because it is specifically that verb to take part in adultery that is used, not to simply be unmarried and have sex with another person (in hebrew it even specifies that that other individual is of the opposite gender.) I still fail to see any evidence of the man Jesus ever condemning homosexuality as part of his new covenant.
@HiddenInsecurities - Faith is real, there is no doubt about that. It’s what the person has faith in that may or may not be real.
@kantianjester - America had its consitution, right? People then realized that it needed to be updated, therefore we have amendments. The Old Testiment is similar to the constitution in this way and the New Testiment is like the amendments. Ya see?
@awth44 -
So is that to say that god was wrong and therefore not ineffable? What point is there to having an ultimate and all encompassing guide to life if all it really becomes is something that this supposedly supreme being has to constantly amend so it can fix its prior mistakes? What does this say of god’s omnipotence and omniscience? All that leads me to see is that either the bible is not the true word of god (at best it would be inspired, at worst fabricated) or god is simply not great.
@kantianjester - I’m going to bed, I need sleep for a long day tomorrow. I’ll leave you with your rationalizing things how YOU want them to be. Anyone can twist words around to make them fit how they want it, doesn’t change a thing with God though. So just have your kicks all ya want, and heckle us Christians all you want. Just rolls right off my back. Hope you have a great night too, just like I told huginn. I wish the best for ya bud I really do. I was just thinking, it’s kinda like when Jesus was on the cross and said” Father forgive them for they know not what they do” You don’t really know what you are saying..understand would be a better word G’nite
@UnworthyofHisgrace -
I appreciate your civility and hope that you too have a good night. I am sorry should it seem like I am heckling you, but I am honestly looking for the answer for these questions and I would love to have the faith that would allow me believe in things that I find contradictory, but I don’t. This is not to say that your belief is wrong, but that I don’t understand it so I ask and like the past 19 years of my life I have yet to receive anything but weak arguments at best and total evasions at worst. Anyhow, take care and best of luck to you.
@stillooking2find - No. What I was saying is that people struggle with sin. People dont accept Christ and then automatically become perfect that very same moment. For instance- I smoke. I have for 20 years. After getting “saved” the cravings still exist. It is something that still controls me. I still struggle with it all the time. I have tried to quit probably a hundred times…I may do it tomorrow, a year from now, or maybe never. Does that mean I am going to hell? Not all homosexuals are bad, and not all Christians are good. We are all human, and we all SIN.
@huginn - What I believe is that God created us. He created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. (That would explain why heterosexuals exist????) All I said was that there has been no proof found that there is a “gay gene”… That leaves only a few options- choice or a learned behavior. Unless U know of something else?
@UnworthyofHisgrace - So…Your name kinda says it all… Read the comment I left for @stilllooking2find. I sin. I sin a lot. Hmmmm. That means I sin repeatedly. So do u. We all do. Does that mean I dont love God?(no) Does that mean we are all going to hell? (I really hope not, but I guess that is why they say that “the road to hell is paved with good intentions…” ) I do not believe that being a homosexual is right- but I also try not to judge and condemn them. That is something left for God to do.We are all unworthy of His grace…and mercy.
@dropsofjupiterihh - I was not trying to say that human behavior is justified because it appears in animals. I was simply pointing out that homosexual behavior exists in the animal kingdom – among biological organisms – in contrast to a claim made by an earlier poster. You may notice that I did not go on to say “AND THEREFORE THAT MAKES IT OKAY FOR HUMANS.”
Additionally: Having been exploring my spirituality for years, I make it a point not to bash Christianity, because I find it to be a very respectable system of beliefs and moral codes, one of the most important of which is:
“Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
To my mind, even if I were Christian (as I may be one day – can’t exactly rule it out, you know), it would not be my place to deny anyone their free will to do what they want. Assuming “acting on homosexual impulses” is enough of a sin to get one into hell, I say, let people act as they wish according to their conscience. Assuming it is unaligned with God’s wishes, sooner or later a person who is honest with themselves and God will see that. Now, if I really believed God punished people I would then go on to say something like: It’s their sin. I can understand if you’re worried about the idea spreading to others and that’s why you might want to limit or control their behavior. But an idea never hurt anybody.
Sorry to disappoint you christians, but I don’t think there’s a ‘Sin’ Gene.
Dan your xanga turns into a christian playhouse everyday, I don’t know if there’s one post on your xanga that is religious comment free.
@aj_mudd - I had to go back and read the comment I made reguarding your comment. I was saying that how you are doing, you are trying to quit smoking, although in reguard to smoking, the only reason it would be considered sin as that it harms God’s temple, your body. You and I both continue to sin yes, but the difference is that we are fighting it with the Holy Spirits help. An unbeliever says he can do WHATEVER they want and screw everyone else.The Bible clearly teaches the difference between LIVING in sin and sinning. don’t remember the verse and where it’s found, but it’s OH SO TRUE. My paraphrase” Why do I do the things I don’t want to do, and don’t do the things I want to do.” Becoming a Christian means you turn from that sin, doesn’t mean you never stumble into again. Some sins you turn from and never return to again, some are harder to turn from, God knows if we are earnestly trying to live our life for Him. We can fool other people lots of times, but not Him…not ever! Sorry if I offended you in anyway, wasn’t trying to AT ALL. I’m not that type of person. I want the best for people! Gotta go take care of all these inspections, shoulda already been gone, just wanted to reply back and hope there are no hard feelings!
Cya!
Also just a random question while it’s on my mind, does the christian god seem like a dictator to only me?
What happened to peace and love? Why scare me with all this ‘cast fire, damnation hell’ stuff? seems as if you don’t do what god says you’re going to hell.
There is a theory called: Allocation of Resources.
In an extended family, imagine that there is a gay relative.
Because the gay relative has no ability (due to orientation) to genetically reproduce, resources are provided for the other relatives, by the gay relative, to reproduce (money, food, support, etc). These relatives still have similar genetic material, so they reproduce, and the more of them that do up the odds of another gay being born. It negates natural selection very subtly.
Its a relatively new theory, but they are beginning to incorporate it into curriculum regarding sexual orientation in many college courses.
<3 Joce
@honestalan - What would you call it then? When you inherit something…as all humanity did from Adam’s original sin, how is it not considered a “SIN GENE” as you call it. And this is a THEOLOGIANS cafe is it not. Theology usually concerns what people THINK of things. As a Christian I base as much as possible on my Christian beliefs. It blows my mind how offended people get of Christianity. I posed a two partr question to Dan about it a while back, don’t know if he’ll ever use it, but I’m sure it would get a BARNSTORM of comments. It’s up to him weither or not to use it. Christianity is my life, it’s why I’m here. Why would I NOT talk about it whenever the chance comes up, I can do nothing but for what my Lord and Savior did for me.
@honestalan - You simply don’t understand the Holiness of God and how sin can not EVER be tolerated. I can think of know greater love myself than a Creator of ALL things becoming His creation to sacrifice Himself for them and taking the punishment for their sin on Himself. In return all you have to do is realize that you are a sinner and trust in what Christ did for you. It’s right there for you to except of denigh. Yes I believe in predestination, but I also believe we have a responsiblity too. God DID give us a will, yes we can’t see God’s holiness unless He opens our eyes, but WE have to ask Him to show us, to open our eyes. Somehow our will and God’s will work together, I have KNOW idea how that works, I just know it does. So in essence, people choose to stay in their sin by not asking God to honestly SHOW them. “Ask and ye shall receive” God’s word doesn’t say that for NOTHING! I have to go now. Man I’d comment on here all day if I didn’t have to work
@UnworthyofHisgrace - So what about all the people before christ? Are they in hell becuase they didn’t believe christ was their savior?
I believe in a god, however he is only forgiving and loving, he does not shed vengence on those who ‘sin’. That is one of the major things I disagree with in christianity, how can a god be so forgiving, yet vengeful on those who sin. And your first statement made no since.
“You simply don’t understand the Holiness of God and how sin can not EVER be tolerated. I can think of know greater love myself than a Creator of ALL things becoming His creation to sacrifice Himself for them and taking the punishment for their sin on Himself”
So you clearly stated that your god created sin, and sacrificed himself from his own creation.
cool.
that is just an amazin question!!!! i love it..
This came up in my psychobiology class.
From what I remember, the argument is that this particular gene begins as a mutation on the X chromosome, making it pass through women to their sons. Other than that, I don’t know much about it.
mutation? a very common mutation.
A homosexual friend of mine (who’s also a biologist and medical doctor) said that assuming there’s a genetic correlation in homosexuality, it’s then evident that gays are not strictly being homosexual.
They’re having kids (for one reason or another– maybe social pressure, trying to hide the fact that they’re gay, or simply wanting kids naturally, etc.) and “having their fun, too.” (His words, not mine.)
There was a Science article long ago about “evidence for a homosexuality gene,” but a more recent paper from Nature Neuroscience showed that when a mutation is made in a gene for a receptor responsible for suppressing glutamatergic synapses, fruit flies flies turned bisexual.
(And there are a lot of such genes.)
I forgot to paste the link from which I was referring:
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/turning-homosexuality-on-and-off/
A lot of homosexuals are religious and decide to mask it by getting a partner of the opposite sex and trying to ignore it. There have been numerous reports of married men who have had kids and cheated on their wives with other men.
Of course I’m not saying that’s absolutely the case for why if it is a gene it hasn’t died out, but it’s one theory.
@honestalan - Sorry I’ve taken so long to get back to you on these questions of yours, I’m quite a busy man.
First Question, no people before Christ were not doomed to hell. Before Christ there were sacrifices, which were to serve as symbols or the perfect sacrifice God would provide. There ALWAYS had to be a BLOOD sacrifice of a creature with NO blemishes. Back then their faith and BELIEF in God was credited to them as righteousness. Christ was God’s perfect sacrifice for us so that we might only BELIEVE and have faith in what Christ did in atoning for our sin, and turning from our sin in the process.
Question 2. Yes we have a loving God, but He is also a JUST God and has to punish sin. You might say as I’ve heard MANY say, That isn’t fair for God to save some and not other’s. Well, they are right, it isn’t fair, only what isn’t fair is that God should save ANYONE. That He would save anyone at all SHOWS His love and grace. Question to you, What do you think of a judge that lets someone go that has killed an innocent person in cold blood. Just says, I’m not going to punish this person cuz I don’t feel like it. You would be furious, especially if the person killed was a family member. You would expect that judge to give a stiff punishment to the criminal if he was a just judge. Our Holy God is a just God and MUST punish ALL sin. Again thats where our loving God steps in and offers His perfect Son to take our punishment on Himself. I could go on but I’ll stop at that.
Now to dovetail into your last statement.Well, God DID create everything, I guess that would include sin, only sin comes from evil itself. Everything has an opposite, if not, how would we know one from the other. With Good there is evil. For use to understand Good, there has to be evil, surely that makes sense to you. There’s hot and theres cold. If all you have ever seen is hot, how will you understand what cold is or even the reality of something being hot. If I need to give more examples I can go on much more, but if you can’t grasp it with these few sentences I don’t think anything else I say will help. But really nothing I say will convince you, I’m not trying to convince you, God has to show you, I can only tell you. Hope this helps you to understand where I’m coming from. it was a pleasure discussing this with you sir.
~Grampy~
why are there still retarded people and people with other disabilities still around?
mayb cos it’s in ppl’s minds. and they’re tricked into the choice.
people don’t know if it’s genetic. the country wants to find out and is spending millions of dollars to find the gay gene. the gay community thinks that it’s going to help us (i am gay) but only in some cases. what happens when the country puts millions into something. what if there is a gay gene? what happens everytime we find that something is genetic? pharmaceutical companies are going to try to create drugs to turn us straight again bc now it’s not our fault that we are born gay. i really don’t give a shit about the gay gene. i love who i love and that’s all that matters to me.
1) A genetic predisposition isn’t always the same thing as heredity just like all frogs being amphibians but not all amphibians being frogs. The same could be said about Autism. We know ther are defective genes which increase a child’s risk of developing autism and since classically autistic people aren’t known for having kids…do the math.
2) Some people are in fact homosexually inclined but live straight lives. I would swear this is the case for both my aunt and her son. All of my friends who have ever met my aunt has asked me if she is a lesbian and my husband swears up and down my cousin (same aunt’s only child) is gay.
This sort of question seems completely ignorant and reeks of perpetuating intolerance.
I don’t think they mean it passes down, so that’s irrelevant. They mean it’s embedded into homosexual’s genes. Not that it reproduces.
@PreciousOnyx - So far I like your answer the best
some people say that the Y chromosome is dying out, creating less aggressive men, more metrosexual men, and men who would prefer a long term mate over spreading their seed. with that being said, reproduction would not be necessary. It’s the evolution of humans, to the point of where we gradually become extinct in order for newer species to develop and evolve. so maybe there might be an increase in homosexuality than heterosexuality. God’s way of telling us we gots to go.
Good question, why not. I honestly don’t know.