January 29, 2008
-
Holocaust-Themed Float
A Holocaust-themed float is causing a stir in a carnival in Rio de Janeiro.
The theme of the carnival floats is “Shockers.” Local Jewish groups are offended by the float. Sergio Niskier said, “There are still survivors of that horror who have the marks of that tragedy on their skin.”
The artistic director of the float said, “The float is extremely respectful, it’s a warning, it’s something shocking that we don’t want to happen ever again.” Here is the link: Link
Is it disrespectful to have a Holocaust float of this nature?
Comments (94)
Intent is everything.
FIRST!
It’s a bit weird. I don’t really see a problem with it, if they mean to “respect and warn,” but then, I’m not Jewish.
But then again, the theme IS shockers, right? I’d say that fits the bill.
Yes and no, I think they should respect the history.. But at the same time it is sadden to see that which most of the time carnival is suppose to be “happy” not something to celebrated over it.
@stillooking2find -
Intent is not everything.
The respectful thing to do would have been to engage in talks with the Jewish community to discuss what would and would not have been offensive. Doing things cooperatively would have been much wiser.
Sure, I think it’s fine. We need to stop ignoring history.
@Bokgwai - We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
disturbing, yes…
but something that should not be forgotten.
*hugs*
Depends on how ya look at it I reckon…some things people do and say are taken way out of context. Its like gag on a gnat and swallow a camel sorta thing.
@stillooking2find - ok. =)
I can see how people would take it both ways. Personally I find it disturbing and out of context of a carnival, and I think that’s what Jews are most upset about.It would be like making a speech about 9-11 during a stand-up comedy routine; the speech itself may be tasteful, but in that context, people are more likely to see it as a joke than a heartfelt plea for unity and peace. In that sense, context matters more than original intent.
On the other hand, I don’t think the float designers have malicious or cruel intent; they’re following the theme of the carnival in a very unusual and artistic way. So… I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to look at this.
I think that the Jews would be proud that other people are standing with them in remembering the horrors of the holocaust
Yuck.
Acknowledgment is the first sign of respect.
I would agree with the art director for the float. It seems like a warning to me.
Not if it’s not anti-semitic.
Wow, disturbing. I get the concept, but… I would really have to sort of go with disrespectful. I realize that’s not the intent, but… I just don’t see the benefit of this ‘warning’ outweighing the gruesome factor.
I guess I’m sort of undecided. Though, I don’t think that anyone who’s going to see this float is going to suddenly realize that their plans for a Holocaust-Revival-Movement are actually a bad idea.
Yeah, I find it disrespectful, but I’m guessing it wasn’t intended to be. I think they should have talked to the Jewish leaders to see how they could design a shocking float that would also show respect.
There is a great variety of people in each of our communites. Inevitablly, any action could be percieved by someone as a slight or as unfitting. Is a holocaust float disrespectful– clearly, yes. The float people know that someone out in the wide wide world will be pissed off.
I can’t really speak for the float’s true intent– seems like cheap thrills to me (a form of pornography). But it’s their freedom of speech. Idiots can talk too, and it’s in their rights to say hurtful things.
No, it is important to remember what happened and to strike down tyranny in all forms.
Though, instead of being a “holocaust” float, it would more accurately be termed a “GWB” float…
it was done in a respectful way to call to mind something tragic. it fits the theme and falls neatly into one of the categories of art-shocking people by causing a reaction. i think it is a timely reminder as well.
“Really, it makes no sense addressing this theme with drums and dancing girls”.
That quote in the article says it all. It’s meant to raise awareness by showing their adaption of the brutal truth, not offend.
Yes or no. I see both side of the story, so I can’t just say it is OK, or not OK.
My god… if I had survived such a tragedy, I’d want to forget it and attempt to live my life as normally as possible. Not go to a damn carnival and have flashbacks triggered.
Disrespectful. A carnival is definitely not the place for it.
if it were in a parade such as the Halloween Parade, then yes. if the artistic director isn’t intending to hurt the jewish community & to “warn” others, then sure, let him make the float.
but no black people being lynched, please.
I think they are just following the theme, but it is pretty distasteful to the survivors, and some of us…
@GermanWrench - put it best. I have nothing else to add.
@whas_go0d - “if it were in a parade such as the Halloween Parade, then yes. if the artistic director isn’t intending to hurt the jewish community & to “warn” others, then sure, let him make the float.
but no black people being lynched, please”
A parade float with lynched black people would be no different than a holocaust float. A respectful float of lynched figures and dancing girls– no problem, right?
————
Who gives a fuck about float intent? A float’s intellectual motivations has nothing to do with our visceral response to the float. The physical and emotional intake of figures of baked Jews is a matter of context. It just so happens that the lot of us 1.) Were born after WW II, 2.) Born in a continent away from Europe, and 3.) Not Jewish. We don’t find the float disrespectful because for us, the holocaust is an exercise into the theoretical. None of us feel for it in a realistic sense.
A float of lynched African nationals would offend nearly everyone in the U.S. since the scars of that time period sticks ugily in society today, in the U.S. A float with plastered figures of simulated rape is certainly a trampling of sensitivites. Victims of sexual assualt could use more awareness too? If the intent of the float was to help victims, the lot of us wouldn’t think to that while wittnessing the float.
The fact of the matter is that the float people know that regardless of their intent, a segment of the population would be deeply offended. For those who live through the holocaust, it is impossible to experience the float as nothing more than someone sticking a finger into their flesh would and worming their way to bone. There are better ways to broach the holocaust history and there are more efficient ways to raise awareness. This float is no more than sick pornography for the lot of us at the expense of real hurt to some.
It’s exactly the opposite. I’ve seen the Concentration Camps and I have known survivors. To have the float at a carnival is smart because it sends a message to the masses.
Poor taste. But alas that is the state of the contemporary mind.
I’m not going to address whether it was disrespectful or not. Instead, all I’m going to say is when I go to a carnival, I don’t want to see something like that, in fact, it might make me hurl mid-carnival. Probably would, actually. Now, I’m not Jewish. From that, I think the Jewish population (as well as non-Jewish) all have something to be miffed about.
Respectful? Who cares? Who wants to go to a carnival and see a pile of corpses?
-David
that’s pretty disturbing. And the whole “it’s to remember and warn!” thin just sounds like a bunch of PR bullshit to me! You know those guys were really like “Hm, well the theme is shockers. what’s themost shocking thing we can think of?” then somene said hlocaust ad the rest o them thoght that was a right smart idea. It was totally for the shock value. I wish people would just be honest about this sort of shit.
Disrespectful. Definitely disrespectful.
In a parade? I mean, what is the theme of the parade as a whole?
If the float fit in with a Survivor’s theme then I wouldn’t object. But in some random parade it is very odd. Save it for a museum exhibit.
No. You can’t make history or tragedy go away by ignoring it. They are reminding those who should remember, and educating those too young to know, about something that ought NEVER to happen again.
@danlang -
You say “I just don’t see the benefit of this ‘warning’ outweighing the gruesome factor” — Does this mean that if we can deter this kind of thing from recurring you wouldn’t do it cuz it would still be too ‘yucky’?
Think before speaking.
@huginn - hm. i shouldn’t have added that last part. honestly, that was meant to be sarcasm, but it didn’t come off as so. i suck at clarifying. but i do think that if you absolutely feel the need to make a float such as the one this guy’s making, make it respectfully. if you’re gonna make a float about lynching black people, it’ll be much harder to have it presented to people as respectful. i’m not saying that lynches were more important or more vile than the holocaust, but a lot of people may see it that way.
to sum it up, i’m saying do what you need to do with taste and be careful of people’s feelings, but either way, not everyone’s gonna be happy. if he decides not to present the float, then there will be some who’ll demand it to show our history, and if he does, there’ll be many who’ll be against it of course.
hope that all made sense.
I am Jewish and I am disturbed by it. I am also the grandchild of a Holocaust survivor.
I understand that their intent was to remind of the past. However, I find a “float” or anything such at a time of such reverie with this topic to be in poor taste. It disturbs me as well that they chose to represent this under the “shockers” theme, in the same context that one would put “freaks”.
If they wanted to represent the horror of genocide, they should have brought attention to modern genocide, such as darfur and rwanda. All this seems to be is a ploy for shock value.
Huginn – “Who gives a fuck about float intent? A float’s intellectual
motivations has nothing to do with our visceral response to the float.
The physical and emotional intake of figures of baked Jews is a matter
of context. It just so happens that the lot of us 1.) Were born after WW II, 2.) Born in a continent away from Europe, and 3.)
Not Jewish. We don’t find the float disrespectful because for us, the
holocaust is an exercise into the theoretical. None of us feel for it in a realistic sense.
A float of lynched African nationals would offend nearly everyone in
the U.S. since the scars of that time period sticks ugily in society
today, in the U.S. A float with plastered figures of simulated rape is
certainly a trampling of sensitivites. Victims of sexual assualt could
use more awareness too? If the intent of the float was to help victims,
the lot of us wouldn’t think to that while wittnessing the float.
The fact of the matter is that the float people know that regardless
of their intent, a segment of the population would be deeply offended.
For those who live through the holocaust, it is impossible to
experience the float as nothing more than someone sticking a finger
into their flesh would and worming their way to bone. There are better
ways to broach the holocaust history and there are more efficient ways
to raise awareness. This float is no more than sick pornography for the
lot of us at the expense of real hurt to some.”
Once again, Huginn owns the question.
-David
I guess I’d have to see more of it. When I first started to read about it, it sounded like a great idea. It would definitely be a downer, but I’m all for people taking time out of frivolity to think a little seriously. But if the Jewish community is against the idea, it’s probably time for a re-think.
I’ve just come to believe that no matter what you do, somebody somewhere is going to get offended. And probably sue.
‘”Really, it makes no sense addressing this theme with drums and dancing girls,” said Sergio Niskier, president of the Israelite Federation in Rio de Janeiro state’
Sounds like the main opponent of the project hasn’t heard that the float WON’T have dancing girls on it. Maybe there is still a chance he’ll change his mind.
As a Jew, I have to say, so long as we get to make a float of Pontius Pilate fucking Jesus in the ass with a spear, then it’s all right to bring up the Holocaust.
@RaVnR - ”No. You can’t make history or tragedy go away by ignoring it. They are reminding those who should remember, and educating those too young to know, about something that ought NEVER to happen again.”
Every instance of racism sparks public discourse. Every KKK parade, every grafittied swatzika bring awareness. But this side-benifit alone doesn’t justify actual racism and cross-burning.
For questions of history, as with the Holocaust, there are better educational means than a parade float. A parade float of the holocaust is a caraciturization of actual horror and actual context. A single photograph of Allied liberation of the Nazi death camps captures everything offered by float and more. The float offers no deep or additional insight. Every school-child has read Anne Frank and knows that yes, the holocaust did occur. Our memories aren’t so bad that we need a silly reminder of the fact. The parade float isn’t just a gentle tap on our shoulder: It is an unnecessary slap in the face to many (those who actually identify with the Holocaust).
@whas_go0d - hm. i shouldn’t have added that last part. honestly, that was meant to be sarcasm,
Ha. Sorry for mis-taking your comment (and using it as a soapbox).
but it didn’t come off as so. i suck at clarifying. but i do think that if you absolutely feel the need to make a float such as the one this guy’s making, make it respectfully… hope that all made sense.
Yup, makes sense. But my feeling of the topic is that the very context of a float parade perverses any legitimate intentions of the float creators. And also, the float creators are stupid for thinking that the float offers any real benifits (it does, but redundantly) and to loverlook its irreverence (which is serious).
@huginn - Maybe that’s how you feel . I stand my ground, and wish to annex to it the fact that I am having issues about people being too damn sensitive, lately.
As a kike, not a Jew, I don’t give a flying fig. However, as a Jew and grandson of a Holocaust survivor, I still don’t give a flying fig. Now to go get some figs!
If their intentions are what they say they are then I wouldnt see this as disrespectful. Maybe a bit hard to stomach, but not disrespectful.
@RaVnR - The rest of my comment was a continuation of that… to suggest that I don’t really think there would be a benefit. Who would you be trying to “reach” with a parade float? Hence “warning,” in quotes. Of course I wouldn’t say that someone shouldn’t do something like this if it would deter something like this happening again. I just don’t think it’s going to deter anything. Sorry you misunderstood.
I wish danlang didn’t feel the need to be so defensive all the dang time.
I think they could have paid tribute and respect to the people who survived the holocaust in a less disturbing way. Whether their intentions were good or not, there’s no need to be that graphic–especially not at a carnival. There are plenty of films based on the Holocaust that people can watch if they want to get a realistic, horrific, idea of what really went down during the Holocaust. But it is all too real for some people–the people who actually lived through it and are probably trying hard to forget about it. Of course it is something that should be remembered, but there is a time and place for everything.
I find it extremely disrespectful to have any floats related to the Jewish community, for we all know they are evil.
@PSUnited1 - Your mom.
While I do think it is important to remember the Holocaust [remember the people who died, who lost their family, who suffered, and the actual event so it never repeats in history again], I do not think a carnival is a suitable place to have a Holocaust float.
A carnival is a place to celebrate, have fun, etc.
Having a Holocaust float would be extremely disrespectful.
so now everyone is backing up Jewish people over this holocaust themed carnival, when it happened in history and it goes along with the theme, but while the 3 little pigs debate was going on the muslims were being called overly sensitive?
yeah ok.
@hiddenxxtruth - Dancing on someone’s grave is very different from making fun of one’s diet.
I think its in horrible taste
I think it’s an odd idea for a float but it is supposed to be shockers. I wonder if anyone Jewish is involved in the actual idea of the float. It is disturbing but I think the intention is good because it would be horrible to have something like that happen again but there are people that lived through that nightmare so you have to consider their feelings.
Uh, how do you explain that one to kids who might be watching the parade? . . .or whatever it is.
I think they put it in the wrong context.
It could be considered offensive, but it happened, it was shocking, and now we move on with our lives. Being offended is fine, being offensive is fine. This should not be a legal issue, no contest.
As long as there is no one waving and smiling on the float, I think it is ok
Yes, it’s disrespectful. Just as much as the 9/11-themed carnival ride.
I could see something like that in a museum, but not a carnival. I think the intent is good, and the theme is thought provoking, but I am not convinced it’s appropriate.
Disturbing? maybe. but to remember death and tragedy is not disrespecting it. However if it were cunstructed as a halloween prank, then it would have been done in poor taste.
i’m sure it would freak me out if i saw it at a carnival.
but the people we need to be most respectful of are those who actually survived this disgusting event. why would we want to remind them of what happened? why would we try and give them flashbacks? especially in this context where it seems people might try and take it lightly. it seems as little tactless. maybe they should have tried to get opinions and such first.
I guess it depends on why you made it.
Though if there are Holocaust survivors in the area, you might want to take into account their feelings on the subject and how seeing something like that might affect them.
I’d say no, but since I wasn’t a part of the actual event it’s not up to me to judge.
Of course it is wrong. We should never forget, but we shouldn’t treat it lightly either.
While I agree that a carnival is not in the best of taste to display this particular float, I disagree with people who call it offensive. My family lost over 40 people in Aushwitz, I for one think it is disrespectful to allow ****ers to say it never happened than it is to bring to light the horrors that the younger generations have so conviniently forgotten because it harms their sensitive perceptions of reality. Holocaust survivors are ardently trying to bring awareness to what happened so many years ago, but people are more content to look the other way than sit down and listen to their stories. I for one am happy that someone at least wants to shed light on the subject despite the arena they are choosing to use.
…it’s a float, if you don’t like the floats that are expected to be at the carnival… don’t go. Celebrate whatever it is a different way.
I understand that the intent was respectful, but I have to agree with GermanWrench, a carnival is not an appropriate place to showcase that particular float.
No. Its eye-opening. And completely necessary. We ask how the past just sat by and allowed the Holocaust to happen when we are doing the same exact thing at this exact moment: DARFUR!
Nope.
Argh… yes? At the same time… no?
you know whats really annoying? when people answer with “yes and no”
make up your damn mind. we know there are two sides to the issue. thats why it’s posted. PICK A SIDE
I don’t think that this is the venue for such an exhibit. In the atmosphere of a museum, perhaps, but not in a Carnival. I do think it is art and well-intentioned but on a float?
I am glad people are still thinking about the Holocaust and realize that it needs to be taught about.
Well, why are they mad, they’re doing the exact same thing to the Arabs in Palestine.
looks pretty discusting to me.
@hum__hallelujah - ”…it’s a float, if you don’t like the floats that are expected to be at the carnival… don’t go. Celebrate whatever it is a different way.”
Are you stupid? Most of us aren’t in the neighborhood of Rio de Janeiro, so discussion of the Nazi float and its legitimacy is purely an intellectual discussion.
@la_vida_linda - …My family lost over 40 people in Aushwitz
Poor you.
I for one think it is disrespectful to allow ****ers to say it never happened than it is to bring to light the horrors that the younger generations have so conviniently forgotten because it harms their sensitive perceptions of reality.
What does the float bring to light? It functions no more as a “hey, the Holocaust happened! And there were dead bodies!” The facts and the situation “shed light” upon is known by every eighth-grader in this country. The float offers nothing.
I for one am happy that someone at least wants to shed light on the subject despite the arena they are choosing to use.
There are better media. The float is nothing more than shock for it’s pornographic value.
@CoffeeRevolutionary - It could be considered offensive, but it happened, it was shocking, and now we move on with our lives. Being offended is fine, being offensive is fine. This should not be a legal issue, no contest.
You can’t be this stupid.
No one has broached this subject on a legal level: No one contests the float founder’s right to free speech. At debate here is the properness of the float. The discussions intellectual relevance isn’t really tied to the actual event: Probably none of us will be attending. Holocaust history will stay with us as long as human history.
It is. How would black people like it if all white people learned Jive to try and “respect” them?
And all you white folk: if you’re going to learn Spanish, learn the accent. Please.
@huginn -
“You can’t be this stupid”
You’re right, I’m not stupid.
I believe you did read the article. And I believe that the same article mentioned other controversial floats being banned from previous carnivals for having figures of Jesus and Mary. Do I sense a connection?
So, excuse me if I made a mental leap, I incorrectly assumed that you’d be able to keep up.
I don’t think that the Holocaust belongs in a parade as a float. That particular historical event was a very horrific and solemn one. It should be remembered and interpreted for the good of mankind but to do so in a frivolous manner such as this seems very inappropriate and disrespectful.
Well if this is disrespectful we should get rid of the holocaust museums aswell. Those are just as disrespectful. And I don’t find either to be disrespectful.
I think its fine… so long as things are done respectfully mind. It happened so why not remember it?
Yes, it’s a big problem for a few reasons. Isn’t Rio de Janeiro the parade where they have women in feathers dancing on top of all of the floats? I know there will be no dancers on this one, but still–it’s not appropriate. Secondly, some of the other themed floats are “hot” and “cold”–things that can supposedly ‘shock’ you. I think people are using the Holocaust simply for the controversial factor because it’s not on the same level as the shock you get from jumping into a cold pool. It’s incredibly disrespectful to all who were touched by the Holocaust to have a float composed of a sculpture of dead bodies in a parade with people dancing and having fun.
Especially when you put it in the context of what just happened in Germany–the UN declared the 27th of January International Holocaust Remembrance day, but this city in Germany held a holiday with parades and stuff celebrating something else, and wouldn’t move their celebration to another day. People are losing their reverence for the Holocaust, I think
That float is in really poor taste… in fact, disgusting. It’s not just the survivors who are offended, it’s their children, Jews in general, and empathetic people of all religions.
If it’s art is fine.
Effective art OFTEN gets under the skin. . .
i personally don’t like it.
let the dead rest in peace.
For me, no. Maybe to others who have been affected by it.