March 21, 2008
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How Xanga can assist sites in gaining traffic
About a year ago, xanga moved away from using a link that was
called “Featured Content.” The “Featured Content” was a link that
showed all the most epropped sites for the day. To make “Featured
Content” was a status symbol for some bloggers. It was a way to
generate traffic for others.I think Xanga
needs to use a new system that uses the best of what “Featured Content”
provided while removing some of the flaws of the old “Featured Content”
system.Why would xanga want to use an improved “Featured Content” system?The first reason is it would help the most popular sites on xanga.Have
you noticed how so many of the sites that used to be on the old
“Featured Content” system are either gone or significantly smaller?
There is a reason for that. Under the old “Featured Content” system, Xanga fed more traffic to the sites that were performing the best by a measure of eprops. Xanga was rewarding the sites that worked the hardest for the traffic.If you think about
this for a minute, that was smart. It only makes sense that Xanga would reward those who worked hardest on xanga. Xanga would want to assist those sites in doing well.Let
me point out other sites that do the same basic thing. I noticed that
myspace has a system in place for bloggers. The system looks oddly
like xanga’s old featured content. In fact, for all I know myspace
stole the idea from xanga. Their system is based on “Kudos” but it
operates just like the old “Featured Content” system.The
sites that get the most “kudos” get more traffic. I have actually ran
a side site over on myspace and I was able to get to the top of their
“Featured Content” on my first try. (That would not be possible now
sense it has grown). I noticed that I received over a hundred friend
request for my efforts. With a little time spent over there, I could
have easily been at the top right from the time I posted which I
believe would have gotten over 200 friend request in a rotation. (Now
that would even be bigger because myspace has more traffic on their
blog link now).One
small difference in the Myspace system is some sort of bias to the most
popular sites. In other words, even if a site doesn’t have the most
“kudos” (eprops) they can get to the top quickly. I noticed that bands
with hundreds of thousands of friends or really popular bloggers like
Pink or others can go to the top group very fast even if they don’t
have the top “kudos.” The best I can tell is that this is based on the
amount of traffic that goes to their site when they send out a mass
message or it is based on the amount of friends they have. I would
guess it is the traffic issue.In other words, myspace rewards a site based on how much (kudos) they get with some sort of
traffic bias.But
Myspace doesn’t just provide the blog link on the front of their page.
Myspace actually has that link on every page of their site. That link
at the top marked “blog” is on every page no matter where a person goes
on that page. On xanga you will actually only see that link on the
front page of xanga. That gives a blogger on myspace an advantage that
is huge. It shows a huge commitment by myspace to assisting the growth
of their blogs with the most “kudos.”What
happens if a person hits on that “Blog” link at the top of the page?
If they are not signed in, it takes the person to the most popular
blogs of the day. So a link at the top of every page links to the most
popular blogs of the day that is determined by “Kudos” (eprops).If
they are signed in, it takes the person to their blog. But if you are
signed in and you hit “blog” what do you see at the top of your page?
You see a link to the most popular blogs of the day. So every single
site on the front page of their blog has a link to the most popular
blogs of the day.So
we will recap what myspace does to assist its most popular blogs. They
have a link from the front page. But more importantly, they have that
same blog link on every page of myspace. In addition to that myspace
links the most popular blogs from every person’s blog page. Myspace is
helping their top blogs that are putting in the most effort get even
more popular.Now the thought going through
your mind is probably “Yeah, that is myspace but they just post photos
and write dumb blogs anyway.” I don’t know what day anyone may be
reading this but I am going to take a risk. I am going to make a
prediction. Read the 50 top starred sites on xanga. Go ahead and do
it. You back? Now go read the top 50 “kudos” sites on myspace. What
did you find? I have checked this a few times but myspace has at least
the same quality of posts in their most popular section than xanga does
with its most “starred” section. In fact, I bet myspace has a higher
quality of content. Go and look.So
the kudos (eprop) system does not produce a lower quality of content.
But myspace is doing something that is smart. They are feeding those
who are already getting the most traffic. It only makes sense that a
site would feed its most popular blogs and reward them with more
traffic. It motivates the blogger to get more traffic, more comments
and more kudos (eprops).Do you see the
problem with stars? It actually gives traffic to people that have
gained not one comment. That is like giving a raise to the lowest
performing employee in the business and stiffing the guy who is
performing better than anyone. It doesn’t make sense to drive more
traffic to people who have shown no ability to retain it.Something
funny happens when you reward sites that are driving the traffic.
Everyone learns from them. They realize the name of the game is to
gain traffic, comments and eprops. It will get them more traffic,
comments and eprops. They watch the sites that are performing and they
try to do what they are doing. They try to get more traffic and
comments. But if a person sees that xanga is rewarding the person with
the most stars, they will learn that the name of the game is to get
more stars.Another thought, what is easier
to manipulate? Is it easier to manipulate eprops or stars? It is
easier to manipulate stars. Why? Because eprops are what the whole
xanga community uses and stars are what a small portion of the
community uses. Eprops represent the will of the xanga community more
clearly than stars does. Stars represents the will of a few.Here
is the problem with stars and boost. The elitist and those who
manipulate control it. How many people were participating in stars?
Actually a small group. Most of the top starred people were getting
fewer than 5 stars without manipulation. So five people were
controlling the content. While 100 people may be saying something
different five people were able to control the content.Now
the same problem existed with boost. Boost was controlled by a small
number of people. The smaller number of people controlling it will
lead to weaker content and more manipulation. I am sure at this point
xanga may be thinking about boost and stars and thinking that another
system should be put in place. The thinking will be that this system
will be easier to use and will have more people rating other blogs.
The question I have for you is “What can be easier than starring
someone?” Nothing. It is the easiest thing to do. But yet only a few
people participated leaving it up to manipulation.So
xanga can put a stop to this and say they will ban the people who are
manipulating the system. That will not work either. Then the top
sites will stop manipulating for fear of being banned and the smaller
sites will gain even more control of the system.Another
rating system will not work when no one is using it. No matter what
system xanga puts into place, they will not have more participation
than what they have with the eprop. The eprop system had its flaws but
those flaws should have been fixed intead of pitching the system. We
don’t need a system that a few decide but instead need a system that
the whole community decides.Youtube
also supports its most popular sites. They let the community pick the
content. They control their front page just like myspace and xanga.
But their main default video page is set to most viewed. The name of
the game is that the community decides what should be viewed. If you
look at the most starred section of youtube, you will find it is the
most spammed. Stars does not work there either. People are willing to
create a few hundred sites in order to get into the most starred
section.So instead, youtube drives traffic and has its default for the video link set to most viewed. In other words,
the community gets to decide what is most popular. Youtube
does very little manipulation of that link. They only remove videos
that are copyrighted when someone complains and only remove videos that
are manipulated to the top when it is pointed out to them and it is
obvious. Besides that, the community gets to decide.In
addition, youtube drives more traffic to the most viewed section. No
matter where you go on youtube, that video link is typically on the top
of the page. The default for that video link is set to the most viewed
videos of the day. What is youtube doing? They are sending traffic to
the most viewed sites. Youtube is letting the community pick traffic. The community gets to decide who gets the most traffic. Once again, Youtube has that link on every page through their site. That is a huge advantage. Xanga actually only has that link on their front
page.But Youtube
does something else to support the most viewed sites. Go to the front
page of youtube. Look at the top. Do you see what youtube does? They
play videos on the top of their page that are some of the favorite
videos of the day. You know where that list comes from? Most of those
videos come from the most viewed section. I have been or assisted
someone who has been on the front page three times now. It is a lot of
work to get there. One of those was a lady that I told what she should
do and she ended up being featured by Youtube.
She just got to the most viewed section and youtube featured her. How
many views did she get? 600,000. I then worked with someone else and
we got to the most viewed section of youtube on the forth and fifth
page. Youtube put both videos on the top rotation of videos. How many views did we get for our efforts?
We got over 200,000 views on each video.Youtube feeds more traffic to its most popular videos.Xanga
should be feeding traffic to its most popular sites. I appreciated the
thought that went into boost. I appreciated the thought that went into
stars. I appreciated the effort that went into “recommend.” But the
problem with each of these systems is that they can be manipulated.
Recommend is a good feature and xanga should keep it. But it will not
give us the best content. Instead it will be manipulated if xanga puts
the top “recommended” on its default weblog link at the top of the
front page. Don’t take my word for it. Give it a few months. As soon
as the xanga leadership ignores it, it will get spammed.Plus
there is a fundamental problem with stars, boost and recommend. The
average recommend post will only get about 5 recommends. Even if xanga
can get that number up to 10 recommends, it still reflects what a small
portion of the xanga community wants.What should xanga do?They should create a system like the old featured content with a few adjustments.1.
There should be 50 sites on the front page of the video link like the
old featured content. It should not be like the front page of the star
system and have only 10 sites on it. The more clicks, the less traffic
goes to the other pages.2. Xanga
should have multiple pages on that link and list everyone like myspace
does. Myspace actually allows thousands of blogs in order and people
can click through and see all of them. By the way, this would make it
easier for xanga to find good content for their front page.3. Xanga
should make it so a site only appears once on that link. I think we
all know the problem of one person being able to dominate stars or the
old featured content.4. Xanga
should separate the traffic of the chinese sites and give them their
own link from the front page. The chinese people will appreciate this
and we will also. (By the way, xanga had a few stars on xanga and
their sites have actually went down in traffic since xanga did away
with featured content. Mandystarz has gotten less comments since xanga
did away with it. Xanga would do well for themselves to feed these Chinese sites with a link to the front page).5. Xanga should allow this link to update more than the old featured content did. It should update every hour.6. Xanga should make the rotation time shorter than the old
featured content. In other words, xanga should make the rotation time 24-26 hours. (Youtube
has a 49 hour rotation. A longer rotation works for videos. Just like
a photo rotation could be as long as a month or two). *Hint, hint
xanga should extend the rotation of the photos and rotate them*7. Xanga needs to do more than just create a link off of the front page of xanga. Xanga
should drive traffic to those links just like they do with the featured
posts on everyone’s private page. In other words, the link really does
very little. Xanga
needs to commit itself to driving with force traffic to those most
popular sites. This will cause everyone on the page to get traffic.8. Xanga
should program the system so that as soon as a person updates, the old
posts falls off that link in two hours. This is better for all of us.
But if a person updates then their most current post is the one that
shows up. This is good on a few fronts.9.
There is a reason I mentioned a 26 hour rotation. Lets use Cakalusa
and DMV for a few minutes. Say Cakalusa updates his blog every day at
the same time. He updates every 24 hours. If the rotation lasts 26
hours, his old post has a two hour overlap to get comments before his
new posts gets to the top. I actually like the 24 hour system better
but the 26 hour rotation actually leaves it open for those who update
every 24 hours so that they still have a link to the front page. This
may not be possible but it is ideal.10. Xanga
should put a link on everyone’s private home page to the most popular
link of the day. In other words, I am asking that xanga doesn’t just
make the weblog a default for most eprops. I am asking that they drive
traffic to it.11. I think the page should be
unedited. But if xanga will not allow for that, xanga should put an
18+ next to those blogs. This would actually drive more traffic to
those sites and not hurt them. If xanga can’t add the 18+ label, they
should add a link that they drive traffic to that is labeled as 18+.
Take a look at a site like Drakonskyr. Xanga does not currently have a system that drives traffic to his site. Take a look at Cakalusa. Xanga does not have a system that currently drives traffic to his site. Let bloggers get away from boosting, starring and recommending and get back in the business of focusing on their sites and commenting.This would put the selection back in the hands of the xanga community.
By the way, recommend this post since it is the current system. Just hit that heart at the top of the comment section.
Comments (157)
…. FIRST!
I liked the eprops system
that was a mouthful…
wow.
I read all of that.
>_<
I think it boogled my mind a bit.
But, after reading the first half, I agree with your adjustments.
Concern for our community. :] Nice.
I’m in full agreement; plus I hate the PG-13 rating system for the old content.
Also, the stars system is far too easy to abuse.
Now, I didn’t even notice the featured content was gone. Heh. And did you really write all of that? Passion!
never saw the heart b4 –do i have a heart?
Excellent post, Dan. Why doesn’t Xanga just hire you? :]
Last.
i’ve given up on getting stars, recommendations, ranking, featured, whatever. i just write and hope people who like it pass it along.
Some very good points!
There has been a sudden lack of new traffic to my site since the FC went away… I hadn’t understood why until now. Point well taken.
Boost traffic to Drakonskyr? What are you trying to do Dan trigger the next apocalypse?
Yay Dan! I didn’t even get to read….racing real quick…….while jay ran to go get he and I dinner….but since I knew it was coming I will recommend without reading.
my my, you’ve certainly put a great deal of thought into this, Dan
HEAR, HEAR!
Yes…John? Are you listening??
Dan for president.
Kudos.
Go CAPITALISM
But what if I don’t care?
I agree with a lot with what you are saying. But it’s hard for us little Xangans to get some attention when some people are always the center of attention. In a way, yea, you deserve it, you’ve worked harder maybe than the little ones. I think the star, recommendation, and eprop just overlaps and causes more grief. Simplicity to xanga would be nice again.
Well done, you.
I know what you mean Dan. My traffic went to zip when they did away with Featured Content.
oh man dan, that was long! and i admit i skimmed it so i might be missing your point BUT
i agree with what you said in the beginning about the old “Featured Content”. that used to give me a lot of traffic but once they stopped that i noticed that my site slowly started dying down
♥ flyy_quotes
I’m impressed with your knowledge of the systems, and other websites. Very smart and very well written post…as usual. =)
do you get money for driving traffic to your site or something? maybe it’s an ego thing?
You sure know a lot about this website and Myspace. I am not sure whether to be impressed or just baffled.
Have a great weekend, Dan. 
@CynaraJane - I always listen to TheTheologiansCafe… he is a wise man.
i can’t believe i read the whole thing… is it me or is this the first time you gave an opinion on something in a VERRRRY extended entry? do more!
@john - I knew you’d be listening…for you are a wise man, too! Oh, and John…may I have my TRUE badge soon?
Good post. The Xanga community should decide and have a part in letting us know which sites are most popular.
@chesspieceface - I wholeheartedly agree.
I find it somewhat troubling that this idea of being “Featured” is so important, as is the need for traffic to your blogs. The whole idea of blogging was never really meant for attention (at least to me). It just seems more and more like we’re whoring ourselves out for more attention and praise rather than just writing our damn blogs and such. What happened to writing for ourselves? Now we HAVE to feed the masses?
@CynaraJane - I sub to your site and will comment on your post soon!
I guess I’m not the total attention whore I thought I was, because I don’t care……….
XANGAR IS SERIOUS BEZNISS
I never really thought the “Featured” blogs were that great, personally. You’re automatically set to give 2 “eProps” every time you comment and most people (myself included) don’t really give enough if a shit to consider that when commenting… especially if you’re writing a derogatory comment, “eProps” are not the first thing on your mind. So “eProps” are meaningless as an indicator of how well-liked the post was… if anything, they’re largely an indication of “comment traffic,” which is to say, it’s really only useful as a measure of how many comments you got, unless people are repeat commenting… yeah.
Did John put you up to this? Put up a semi nude pic of me, and I’ll be sure to recommend it.
I agree with you, mainly word for word.
I hope xanga hears this.
amen!! finally, i agree with you. haha
Don’t really have too much of an idea how the community and featured stuff works here but I’m starting to get a feel from reading here. I’ll go ahead and recommend as requested.
I liked the old system [well, the one they had in 2005 anyway] because my friend and I would put effort into going from #50 to #11 [ getting into the top 10 was hard because Theologian would always occupy the top 10 with 10 dif. posts ^_^]
we were just silly teens so for us it was more of a popularity contest, but if we had the old system back we could rival Theol and Caka and Wuwu ^_^.
yay for capitalism
wow! and I thought blogging was just supposed to be a hobby…
@JimiRy -
like seeing who can get the most myspace friends, amirite?
ambrose
Very well researched and thought out. Eprops, let me see what would that do for me . . . oh yeah i like it.
“Do you see the problem with stars? It actually gives traffic to people that have gained not one comment. That is like giving a raise to the lowest performing employee in the business and stiffing the guy who is performing better than anyone.”
Look, I’ve been blogging here since Sept of last year. I update at least once a day (sometimes more, sometimes less average once a day) and you still see more traffic in one day than I see in a month. It’s not fair to me that you’ve been featured sometimes 3 in a week. I try to put content that is worthy of being featured, yet, I am not. I comment on posts (a lot, hence the true badge)
I never saw traffic on my myspace page. I get MORE traffic here on Xanga than I ever got on myspace and why should you reward those that get high traffic. The same thing with youtube. Once you gotten a lot of traffic, then they featue you, then you get even more traffic.
I’m a nobody, and I know it. I’m never going to be a big-time blogger like you. But I just wish that blogging sites would give me a chance!
Good food for thought Dan….I still dont get the freakin “Life” sign as I know at least a dozen that rarely update twice a week let alone comment…and some take a leave foe a few weeks and come back and by golly they are “Lifers”…….I added my own since I have been around over 4 years …….and the old feature was a hell of a lot better than the current which has the same old crappers on it daily…….
Huh. I just write on Xanga for the heck of it. I don’t really understand the intricacies of it. If they change things like you’re saying, I’m cool with it. I just don’t want it to turn into another Myspace. I hate that thing. I only use it to keep in touch with a couple of specific people.
ooh some more thoughts.
since e-props = credits they are not always given out of sincere aprreciation.
also if some blogs grow really big, traffic wise, and Xanga keeps on ghelpin it to increase traffic, wont that kill all the the smaller sites?
I mean, what should motivate newcomers to make good blogs if they wonät have a chance to make it to the toplist?
Yes traffic is good for xanga, and I care for xanga, but lots of users that are active and not only have an account to be able to leave comments on the big sites would also very much be in the interest of xanga
expanding internationally is one possibilty, as in attracting users from other language groups, give each language group theit own frontpage and toplist. Translate the inteface – do some ads - baboom! The marketying research for this would be quite simple and the cost for it very low
oh yeah, I forgot to mention the only reason I comment on your page is to give myself points because that’s the only benefit I get from commenting on your blogs. It’s not like you’re reading my posts or anything.
Dan, you are a dedicated and smart man.
@RdKingClassic03 -
Yeah, I guess the people who were used to being Featured want it back? Not that I care, some deserve it, but the only thing I would gain is a more interesting Feautured.
The old one was monopolized by three people, and it got old. The new one isn’t that interesting either. I don’t think more comments is the best judge of a “Featured worthy” post.
@Oh2BTigger - well said!
If everybody only visit a very small number of saites, rthan there is no point in having a community. I so what’s worth more, lots of ggolehits on the same site or millions ans millions of user actaully keeping their blogs alive? Trafficwise, won’t it sort of add upp the the same amount – but more widely spread?
@StephanieMarie7891 - precisely.
I think that Xanga should give attention to smaller bloggers as well, so that the more popular bloggers don’t monopolize Xanga. *cough* Dan…
@GrumpyBear54 - The lifer badge is a paid membership. I paid for my badge. It just means that I bought at least 4 years of premium! If users chose not to blog that their prerogative. I choose to update my blog. Others do not. It’s their money, let them spend it however they’d like.
I’m glad the links are not always there. And sometimes the smaller pages are intersting too. The star system seems a bit like a random choice. I like that!
*oops interesting
@Peteismyhero - That’s the reason I came to Xanga. I still see more traffic here than I see anywhere else, but yet I will never see as much traffic as he will EVER! Don’t get me wrong, he’s earned his. But on Xanga stars should be the end all-be all, not eprops. Eprops are automatic, not stars!
Hey Dan,
haven’t read the whole post, but what i’ve read so far I agree with! I’m going to guess that the old system got Xanga much more traffic in general… and isn’t that how they make revenue? More traffic = higher priced ads. Right?
It certainly made *me* blog with more effort.
What can I say? I’m an ex-Xanga whore! 
wow. that was… long.
but you make a lot good points.
another thing – differnet people have different tastesm especially whne it comes to blogs. Don’t knock down CaKalusa besuase you fon’t care for that kind of content.
Allow the users to choose a given category for each post – then make a toplist for each category. It makes it easier for people to find what THEY like,
I so feel you’re doing this as a favour to Jamie, and I oersonally adore her, but NOT her site, those pictures should NOT be on the frontpage of a community – not a community I would allow my future teenagers to use.
Very detailed. You actually explained a lot that I didn’t understand about the systems. Thanks.
Why are you telling us this? TheXangaTeam is who you need to talk to. Just e-mail or message them.
@Schristian -
That’s up to each blogger to decide for themselves. I f you want to just write for yourself, that’s fine. But if someone else enjoys having a lot of people read what they wrote, what’s wrong with that? It sounds more like jealousy to me, or self righteousness in judging those that get a lot of comments.
I agree. I actually made featured content a few different times on the old system. Haven’t even come close with the constant changes they keep adding.
i would prefer the link from the front page / FC page to navigate to my site and not my weblog. Other than that, I second (or 37th) the motion. I didn’t even know what the hearts or stars did until you explained it.
Oh my god that was like the longest post ever. I couldn’t even finish reading it!
@LSP1 - Well, if you want to play that tired “Jealousy” card, go ahead. I happen to find it disheartening that Xanga’s turned itself into a Myspace whore clone with most of their additions. True blogging to me is about writing, not about comments or how many e-props one gets. If that makes me jealous, then I guess I’m jealous. But for next time, try not throwing out asshole reasons like a tired old highschool kid. I wasn’t bashing those who get a lot of comments, I’m bashing the idea that any of us should SEEK to get more comments rather than try posting worthwhile entries or just enjoy writing. Now you tell me, what’s wrong with that? I thought blogging was about writing, not about ridiculous politics and self-whoring. I frankly, won’t support that idea.
The need to have more subscribers and comments and e-props is a blatant cry for more attention, maybe because the party in question doesn’t get their “fair share” of attention in the real world. (see, I can throw out flimsy pseudo psychological statements too!)
The spirit of blogging is being raped by this “popularity contest” bullshit beind spun. That’s my opinion. Deal with it however you want (hopefully next time it will be something more substantial than the equivalent of ”neener neener”).
I like the idea of one entry per blogger being featured. That would allow room for more blogs to be featured.
@Schristian -
[I happen to find it disheartening that Xanga's turned itself into a Myspace whore clone with most of their additions.]
That may be true. I don’t have a Myspace, so I don’t know.
[True blogging to me is about writing, not about comments or how many e-props one gets.]
True blogging according to you. It seems logical that some people enjoy having people read and respond to what they wrote.
[But for next time, try not throwing out asshole reasons like a tired old highschool kid.]
Ok. Thanks
I wasn’t bashing those who get a lot of comments, I’m bashing the idea
that any of us should SEEK to get more comments rather than post
worthwhile entries or just enjoy writing.
Again, what’s wrong with seeking more comments? And because they seek more comments, that means their entries aren’t worthwhile?
[I thought blogging was about writing, not about ridiculous politics and self-whoring. I frankly, won't support that idea.]
You have the right to that opinion.
[Deal with it however you want (hopefully next time it will be something
more substantial than the equivalent of "neener neener").]
Ok. Thanks again.
[
@Schristian - Well said. The more attention a blogger gets, the more they expect. Soon enough they start biting the hand that feeds them. Blogging is supposed to be fun and sociable, not a mercenary enterprise. Xanga should just stop featuring individual blogs altogether and promote blog rings instead. A different blog ring on the front page every day… regarless of how popular it is.
@paison_de_moot - Thank you. I agree with your idea. I also would suggest doing what PostPoems.com does for their poets:
Feature random bloggers regardless of how popular they are.
This way, you can see all the different types of people and you remove the need/ability to vie for the position. The credit system is another thing we should do away with, merely because it promotes that very abusive nature in most of us to get the required credits for free Lifetime Premium.
@Schristian -
Writers need readers. Without readers, well its a web diary not a web log. Yes the games that are played for atention can be stupid, but the desire for readers is as natural as the desire to write. If you would like to write and not be read, there is a private setting, use it. If it is just for your friends, use friends lock.
You enjoy your site anyway you want to. And others will enjoy theirs the way they want to
@Oh2BTigger -
He reads them, really he does. dan responds enough that he must be reading them
@LSP1 - Insightful. Firstly, I already said they were MY opinions and what I felt about blogging, no need to be redundant.
“Again, what’s wrong with seeking more comments? And because they seek more comments, that means their entries aren’t worthwhile?”
What I feel is wrong is that it warps what blogging used to be about with Xanga: Blogging. People stop blogging for themselves and start blogging for the masses. Again, this is mostly about my beliefs on blogging. You can disagree but don’t start painting me a devil for having this opinion. I also feel that seeking out more comments is a cry for attention and an annoying one at that.
But that’s just me.
@trunthepaige - Just because someone doesn’t comment doesn’t mean they didn’t read your entry. The two are not connected. So what’s your point?
To elaborate, I am aware that bloggers want readers but to make it their sole quest to gather more viewings takes away from the idea of blogging. I do not fault Dan’s advice, but I do fault the idea that getting massive amounts of traffic is utterly important. I never said I didn’t want people to read my site, but I do not agree that we should whore ourselves out just to get a couple more comments. It’s so juvenile.
@trunthepaige - Maybe to your posts, but I’ve never seen him on my footprints…not unless I’ve specifically said to come to my site and that’s only been once. Oh, yeah. He visited today because he thought he offended me.
@Oh2BTigger - WOW..thanks for pointing this out I ment the ‘TRUE” badge not lifer..long day for the bear…..have a great weekend…….
@Schristian -
If you have no traffic you have no readers. Dan is talking about directing traffic. Comments naturally come with having readers, the two are very connected. I have been doing this long enough to see that for even comment you get, your site has had about 10 visitors or less. Unless you’re ultra popular like this site. This site likely gets about 100 visits for every comment.
My other point, if you are so pure on this subject, it should not interest you. Why complain if you don’t care?
Writers need readers. Without readers, well its a web diary not a
web log. Yes the games that are played for atention can be stupid, but
the desire for readers is as natural as the desire to write. If you
would like to write and not be read, there is a private setting, use
it. If it is just for your friends, use friends lock.
You enjoy your site anyway you want to. And others will enjoy theirs the way they want to.]
Amen.
@trunthepaige -
Writers need readers. Without readers, well its a web diary not a
web log. Yes the games that are played for atention can be stupid, but
the desire for readers is as natural as the desire to write. If you
would like to write and not be read, there is a private setting, use
it. If it is just for your friends, use friends lock.
You enjoy your site anyway you want to. And others will enjoy theirs the way they want to.]
Amen.
@Schristian -
So is popularity whoring? Or maybe talent? I know it can be both or ether but let the readers figure that out. the featured list gives you both whores and a good read. Right now it is a mess with many playing games. i think with what Dan is talking about, you see less gaming
good ideas – way to go!
Whatever, this is just too much to read!
Have a good weekend..
@Oh2BTigger -
See he read your comment or he would not have known to come. he gets hundreds of comments everyday. he would do nothing else if he visited everyone of them everyday.
@trunthepaige - I visit several times a day and I generally leave comments on his page. I was not talking about comments anyway. I assumed he reads his comments. I was talking about Theo visiting my page–we are talking about traffic here, not comments.
@trunthepaige - The original comment of mine is as follows:
“I find it somewhat troubling that this idea of being “Featured” is so important, as is the need for traffic to your blogs. The whole idea of blogging was never really meant for attention (at least to me). It just seems more and more like we’re whoring ourselves out for more attention and praise rather than just writing our damn blogs and such. What happened to writing for ourselves? Now we HAVE to feed the masses?”
To clarify my point, I find the race to get featured and an excessive level of traffic to one’s site troubling. The matter is that the writer is no longer writing but desperately seeking an audience. I find that highly troubling when Xanga used to be a far more blog oriented site, rather than a site dedicated to popularity (which Myspace is known more for).
“I have been doing this long enough to see that for even comment you get, your site has had about 10 visitors or less. Unless you’re ultra popular like this site. This site likely gets about 100 visits for every comment. “
So then why does someone NEED to seek more traffic when by merely posting they’re already getting traffic? Again, they’re not connected (comments and reading) because they are two different actions. You don’t even have to read an entry to comment someone, though you come off stupid when you do.
“My other point, if you are so pure on this subject, it should not interest you. Why complain if you don’t care? “
That makes no sense first off. I happen to have a high opinion of blogging and something like this is GOING to make me speak out against it. What would be surprising is if I stayed quiet on the subject. I care about the integrity and the spirit of blogging as according to MY opinion. I never said I didn’t care about those, I just don’t care about getting thousands of subscribers and commenters, thus, my philosophy on blogging. And I’ve been here quite a long time too, I’m well aware of how the system works.
@trunthepaige - No, being popular doesn’t make one a whore, but desperately seeking out that popularity DOES.
Although I do like a lot of your specific suggestions I’d get bored to death with a solely eprop based system like you suggest rather quickly. I might not viewing featured content altogether if such a system became the norm.
Youtube’s front page by default displays “featured”, “sponsored” and “being viewed right now”. Not most viewed. Although you can in one click select “most viewed”, “most discussed” and “top favorites”. That suggests that those last 3 are considered the most popular ways to sort. Featured and Sponsored are obviously the ones Youtube is trying to promote. And being viewed right no has the advantage of being more democratic, creating exposure for videos that would otherwise fall into obscurity giving them a chance to get more viewer ship. Together all of this works rather well.
When you do a search in youtube, “relevance” is the default ordering. If you click a user, “most recent” is the default ordering. And for channels, categories and the “all videos” page, “most viewed” by week and by today are the default. To be honest, I never ever view channels, categories or the “all videos” page. Never. I didn’t even know what that “Videos” link at the top did. Seriously I never clicked on it. It doesn’t make any sense to me logically. I’m viewing the videos right now when I’m on the front page, so what the heck will clicking that link bring me to? I did not know the default ordering on these pages was “most viewed” until I checked it just now to write this response. I always sort by “top favorites” and “top rated” or I do a search or click a related video or a video response. Very very rarely I check the other sort orders.
But you aren’t really advocating “most views”. You are advocating eProps. eProps is very different from most views. It is much closer to “most discussed” except that it uses something like a unique commenter count x2. “most discussed” is easily manipulated too. There have been days when youtube users have managed to get the “most discussed” video page dominated by the videos of just a small group of video posters. Most views was harder to manipulate and ironically most starred was the most resilient against those manipulations.
Most views could be manipulated too. Just adding the right tags can increase your view count. I’m not sure why that should be rewarded. It does not reflect the best content. And it can result in tag-clutter which makes the blog browsing experience less useful for everyone.
While I agree that stars isn’t working because it isn’t getting used enough, I don’t agree with your implication that it could never work because it could always be manipulated. It actually becomes harder to manipulate as usage increases than those other systems do because the outliers become less and less significant to the overall rating. It’s very hard to get a LOT of users to upstar or down star a post enough to offset the large number of average users who vote their honest opinion. With too few posts being starred, stars don’t work at all, but with lots they work very well. You can also use basic statistic to drop the unusually low or high ratings and to detect spammed bad ratings that seem illegitimate and discard them. (ie a bunch of low ratings happening in too short an interval from the same or similar IP addresses) Why is it exactly that you think eprops deserves more attention to fix its problems but not stars?
The recommend system is effectively like “most favorited”. (Or at least it will be once the module exists to view and display them) It has the added bonus of leveraging xanga’s subscription system so that it feeds into its own popularity. You see one person recommending and then you want to do it too! You’re absolutely right that it will not be the best system for choosing featured content if it is not utilized sufficiently, but it can potentially be a very good system for sorting content.
The recommend button should be much bigger, much more visible, and appear in MANY more spots btw. It’s way to easy to ignore where it is. And most of all it needs to have utility to ME the end user first and foremost. That is, like favorites, it should give me the ability to bookmark my favorite entries so I can go back to them. That way I would use it regardless of to what extent I can broadcast it.
There also have to be better controls on how “loud” the broadcast of a recommendation is. I should be able to set it to recommend just to my friends, just to a specific person or group of people, or just save it to display on my page without bothering anybody else.
There are advantages to an “editorial” like selection process that you are discounting too. Human beings tend to be better at finding obscure content and at gaging current trends in human perception before hand. That is a person is more likely to be able to guess if something will be boring. Also human beings can better judge appropriateness and what might result in legal quandaries. Human beings can also forumalate good “hunches”, as in they can give a new blogger a break on the hunch that if that blogger got more exposure they would quickly become very popular.
Youtube has lots of bubbling mechanisms. That’s what makes it work so well. Xanga should as well. But the mechanisms will naturally have to be somewhat different on Xanga because of the unique nature of blogs vs videos. But they shouldn’t privilege one predominantly over the other. Use a lot. See what is most popular with the users themselves and then make that the preference.
The best movies aren’t always the ones that everyone goes and sees or even the ones that everyone is talking about. After all not everything that everyone says is *good*. Sometimes the critics do make better choices. Individual selection has value too.
The basic premise of your post that people will learn from the users that get the most comments how to get the most comments and create a competition is meaningless. It’s true of ANY selection system. If I go and choose the blogs that get featured, then users will learn how to tailor their posts to what I like. The question is are they learning the lessons that make their blogs the best? Are they learning the lessons that make their blog the most what the Xanga community wants to see and that will make the community the best that it can be?
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But don’t forget one of the very easiest way to drive up comments and views is to start a controversy or pick a fight. Another is to spam your blog all over the post. Are these the lessons we want to teach?
@Schristian -
yes and that is happening now
@trunthepaige - The point is, I think we should divert our attentions from TRYING to be popular and just enjoy what we’re doing: Socialising, blogging, networking.
You have some good ideas, but all of this still means nothing to sites rated “d” or “ex”.
@CEC32 -
that’s because you’re all a bunch of perverts.
ambrose
I’m for anything that will get the focus on content. When I started my xanga site over 4 years ago, I pretty much kept to a small group of friends that have special interests. When I started blogging in places like MySpace, YouTube, Live Video, and Blogger, I got a real appreciation for xanga. We have the best of almost all worlds, (except video). Xanga needed to find easier ways to get people interacting without sacrificing eprops, or comments. I think the recent changes are great, and my site has much improved because of them and the more personal contact I have with my friends, without sacrificing my blog topic to do so.
Good post, I’ll recomend it.
I agree Dan, it was very nice to hear your thoughts on a subject.
It is frustrating when I have a post that attracts some attention and it gets nowhere under the current system. I used to get featured a few times a month. Now, nothing. Not that I have a lot of time to keep up with new people…. But it is fun when my site is successful according to some kind of built in criteria.
Good god man, you’re right!
What about those of us who are still using the xanga system from three years ago?
say whaaaaat???
ya lost me, bro.
manipulating the system dan?
I really like your idea about all of this.
#4 segregation much? HAH
I like the last 2 ideas. Here’s to hoping John takes these ideas under consideration.
ok, did you come up for air yet? Good points…
very impressive, maybe somebody with xanga power will consider your suggestions.
Impressive Dan. Something tells me you are way smarter than you seem at first glance. And even though you hate Stars.. I 5-star-ed this one to stick it to the “xanga” man.. lol
Daniel (doubledb)
love your post dan
Dan, you should totally work for Xanga!!!
I did not like all the stupid comments from people who found my old site through Featured. Featured was a game that I played, I learned how to make it on there whenever I wanted, and that helped hone my writing skills (and other skills) a lot. But I do not miss it, and wouldn’t want all the idiots coming by my site to call me a fag, queer, etc. anymore. PLUS, the chainmail copy and pastes about how I’m going to hell. E-freaking-gad. No, thanks.
But in the context of your argument, you make good sense and I hope they change it back, due to your writing. I don’t get the Chinese segregation, at all, but I get what you’re saying. I think my days of Featured are over, probably, due to my lack of xanga commitment over the past couple of years, anyway.
I disagree with most of what you say here. Your idea that there should be a constant drive towards making the currently popular even more popular will not, in my opinion, make for a better selection of quality for all.
“But it will not give us the best content.”
If we decide that the post with the most whatevers (eprops, comments, kudos, etc) will get a link on every page, that would nearly constantly be you. And Dan, much as I appreciate your page, and much as I do enjoy coming here, you are not the best content around. Face it, my fine fellow, it isn’t you people come here for at all. And this idiotic system of constantly promoting the successful will do nothing more than flooding the system with garbage.
From the start, the assumption that that which the majority enjoy is the best, is an incorrect one. More people listen to rap than classical music, but this does certainly not make rap music better than classical in any way. By completely destroying any chance small blogs have at traffic based on quality (as the current frontpage featured system allows for) you limit your blogs to whatever appeals to the masses. And based on xangaland experience, this is nearly entirely pages full of chinese who-knows-what, emo cutters with xanga families, stupid and brainless questions, and idiotic, repetative ‘humour,’ day in, day out.
Simply because you have the ability to scam the ability a little more cleverly than those who simply give themselves other stars does not mean that you are any more deservant of the attention you garner.
What xanga really needs to do is not constantly feed attention to those who already have it, but find a way to feed those ‘starving artists,’ those languishing unknowns. They are the ones who are producing the best content, and that most deserving of the attention you suggest the system should provide. Nobody needs a link to you, or cakalusa, or drakonskyr, or some damned emo on every page they see.
yeah, even the xangans themselves can give their own blogs 5 stars rating. go ahead and try.
Just dropping over from Jamie’s site….
Tell it to the man! LOL …..
jk …… but seriously ….. couldn’t have been said better! bravo
I’ll admit it, I didn’t read through all of this.
Just…gimme traffic. GIMME LOVE.
This was way too ridiculously long for me to read, but then again, I don’t get a lot of visitors tomy site with or without the information that I did read, so I guess it didn’t matter.
Visit me! Tell your friends!
Why do you need more comments and to be featured? Why don’t you give someone else a chance? You don’t need to do anything to be popular on xanga, you’ve already earned that place and you will continue to be featured with the amount of subscribers you have.
Do you even read all your comments or visit these people’s pages?
Recommended.
I love when you do posts like this.
Hahahahahaha Dan.
uh… so if all the traffic goes to the most popular blogs, what about the 99% of us who “haven’t been discovered yet”? i mean, maybe i just need to move to a different site than xanga but every time i look the popular stuff tends to be mainly teenage ramblings. maybe i’m out of touch. but i would like some random links. heck, make it its own little box and call it “discover” links or whatever. place links to less “popular” blogs in there randomly for people to click on. ah nevermind.
btw, well-researched post, thanks for sharing all this interesting information.
The featured content system is good for all of the giant blogs that already have a ton of traffic (like yours), but other tiny blogs that get very little or even no traffic (mine as an example) would probably suffer with it. If they put it back up, there should also be a system so the unpopular people can get views. We might not work as hard, but if people comment and give props eventually we’d be inspired to work harder, and that can only happen with a better flow of traffic than what we already get.
I do not understand all the intricate details you wrote. I trust you know and will recommend this.
I have seen some enteries on the front page of Xanga with less than 5 comments than rise near or over 100 because of being on the front page. I’m not sure how they make judgments.
I’m not looking for traffic, I don’t update on Xanga often and I comment to a few blogs each day. I’m unsure if you have even noticed I do not comment here on your site as often.
Happy Easter Dan!
“Something
funny happens when you reward sites that are driving the traffic.
Everyone learns from them. They realize the name of the game is to
gain traffic, comments and eprops. It will get them more traffic,
comments and eprops. They watch the sites that are performing and they
try to do what they are doing. They try to get more traffic and
comments.”
In other words,
people stop posting garbage?
Using the recommend system and eprops combined, instead of stars, would most likely generate that effect.
bunnies dont lay eggs? D=
This post was most enlightening. Xanga was once so simple. Most of the new features have been beyond me. Thank you for clearing a lot of my bafflement up. Bring back simplicity I say.
All the best,
A
this is so…mercenary i think is the word. aren’t there people who still just write in blogs because they want to keep a record or to write something friends will read instead of having to be the most popular blogger? it’s kind of highschool.
of course, i’m not a socialization kind of person, so i may have missed the point.
@NikBv - you may want to cut down a WEE bit on the vitriol… it kind of takes away from the point you were making, which is a good one. i feel happy when i discover a new cool person’s blog, similar to when i read a novel i like and find out that it’s part of a series. but when you say it like that you sound bitchy, jealous, and petulant. that’s really not a good look on anyone, even if you ARE feeling it. remember, this is the internet. even the people who write the featured content are not getting publishing contracts or grammy awards or t-shirts with their heads on them or anything. at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter.
this was the longest post ever.
yes, there has to be some medium between who has the biggest fan/e-prop base and who is featured based on entry material.
i was sick and tired of seeing the same people over and over and over again on featured. this new system helps me to see many other people’s blogs, and make more friends, and have the chance to make featured w/o spending all day long on xanga.
i think regular xanga users, like myself, before this new system came about, would simply skip the frontpage because it felt like i’d seen it all before.
people who are great bloggers get eprops, get more friends, and have more regular readers. that’s what matters in the end. are you in it just for the fame? or for the satisfaction of sharing ideas with other human beings? both can be achieved, if your content is worth it.
peace!
@Viol3tt - You are, no doubt, correct. You catch more flies with honey, and all that. I apologize to all.
The only thing I like about Myspace blogging as compared to Xanga is that you can categorize a post by subject. I’d like to be able to search for pertinent posts on Xanga within categories, using tags. Or I’d like the “featured” posts to be categorized by subject so the featured post would be less random and more pertinent to my interests. For interest, I write on a wide variety of subjects, but primarily Pagan religion. I’d be happy if it was easier to find quality Pagan posts on other Xanga blogs. Am I just missing them or do they not exist? I don’t care about the popularity contest. I just want to be able to find the topics that interest me.
I’d love to get featured, though I’m not sure if my content is ever worth it.
why did so many think thios was such a long post?! It’s just that the layout doesn’t fit that many words/line = a layout suited for short posts, which you useually find here….
Why is getting traffic so important?
@Schristian -
I absolutely see your point of view and totally agree.
@paison_de_moot - exactly.
@Viol3tt - I agree with you totally. If you check a couple pages back, you’ll see I share the same views with you on blogging.
@sweetanonymity - Good to know
Glad we’re on the same wavelength.
Dan for president!
Dan,
I am rewarding this post with a pair of eProps and a recommend. I think that Xanga should do what it does best and compete with Live Journal while feeling like MySpace and Facebook enough to attract market share from that crowd too. If Xanga focused on content like it should, then people who write here with the hope that they can get their message out will do well and those who are just here for friends can continue to either do that or move to a social network like MySpace or Facebook.P. S. I’m sure that ilsurvive is proud of you despite her post to the contrary.
Well said Dan.
I applaud all the thought that went into this blog post, but I can’t help but think it is a bit prejudiced against those bloggers who aren’t the biggest and most well known, which is elitist to it central core, right there…is it not? Lets keep driving more traffic to those who already receive the most…Sounds like a pretty elitist idea to me….
wow! you seem to be thinking a lot about this! and i think you’re right on some points… i mean i like discussing your posts with family and friends cuz they make good topics for discussion…
but i also understand that xanga’s trying to uplift their faithful subscribers that don’t have ”xanga-mogul” status.
maybe you could send this to john directly so that the xanga team can do what they should to give everyone fair treatment.
Wow, I think this is the longest blog of yours that I have ever read. I still love Xanga mostly because of the fact that people actually write here, in most others sites, such as myspace, and Facebook most people don’t write, too lazy is my theory, but I have noticed that Facebook has recently added Live Blogger…, the kudos on myspace, don’t mean anything because very few people actually read blogs on myspace… so I think Xanga has the best system compared to others, although you are right in many of your thoughts. I doubt that anything I have said makes sense. Hope you are well Dan.
Hugs, Tricia
I’d prefer to have several methods of choosing featured content. I strongly disagree with the notion that popularity equals quality. I have no interest in mindless crap no matter how popular it is.
But Dan, the name of the game isn’t necessarily “to gain traffic and comments,” some of us just blog because we (novel concept!!) like to.
But perhaps this is difficult to grasp for someone to intentionally links himself to Google.
i used to blog just for the heck of it. and now im caught up in all these system going on. nontheless, thanks for highlighting the issues. this is good stuff and well thought of.
good god this is a lot of time and energy devotion to a hobby. isn’t xanga a hobby?
i mean damn if youre so concerned with and motivated by traffic (and passionate about people reading your stufff) that you spend THIS much time monitoring and analyzing the systems in place on various blog sites, maybe you should take up writing as a profession.
i’m just sayin.
The thought of working @ anything on a long weekend just exhausts me!
x
Dan, I’m going to try to be polite about this, but you’re incorrect in your reasoning, if you’re proposing a return to truly democratic rating systems. Xanga’s Top 50 Featured Content quickly fell apart into a top 50 of role game players (because they had lots of comments), sites not written in English, and wanna-be porno makers, with few exceptions. It was an embarrassment to Xanga, and is/was all but undefendable. Google Video also tried a purely democratic rating system…and ended up with nothing but violent short videos and banned-in-America commercials. They lost to Youtube mostly because of their rating system. The pure democratic system does not work, and the republican system of just having those voters who understand/use stars and recommend does not work either. Your system, although it solves a few of these problems, still falls short. For example, aren’t your points 5 and 6 in opposition to each other? And 8 is a mistake; what if I plan to use my hugely successful humorous post as a wedge so then I can post my 50,000 opus to Hitler? ha. Link-switching would become a problem. And as for point 10–you assume that the best central meeting place for Xangans is the best featured content post. I think that’s a terrible mistake, which is why I rarely comment here. No offense, but aren’t you being a little self-serving with 10. as well?
Youtube has come the closest to understanding how to use viewer insight to make videos popular; also, some of those picture rating sites have innovative ways of counting votes for popularity (HoN), as does ShowHype. I will be writing a post soon on how Xanga may have been able to better compete with Myspace and Facebook and what they can do in the future. I’d be pleased to send you the link if you are interested.
Good points. I hope xanga reads your entry. The ‘recommend’ button is useful, but how does that differ from the star voting? Maybe it needs both feature contents (eprops), and editor picks.
I had a very long comment here…then I realized I’d rather just post another entry on my own blog and save your space.
BTW, great post. And yes, you were recommended to me by a friend.
If you had a nickel for every comment…
damn…and i thought i spent too much time on xanga! u seem to be getting loads of comments/visitors even without the Featured Content so i guess youre ok? ive read a bunch of entries, and im leaving on a comment on this one? why? ok im done.
nice page tho
)
very well written
that sounds really good =)
Works for me…sorta. But there are a lot of really good blogs that don’t get a lot of traffic–and should. I’m worried that those sites won’t get noticed at all. I liked the old featured content pages but they would need a shorter turn around. JMHO.
Personally I don’t need a throng of readers to validate my entries on my Xanga site. MySpace is a piece of crap with so many sites full of crap that it takes forever for some sites to load on your screen. There is also less spamming of even more crap on Xanga sites by lonely women looking to hook up or saying that someone is saying bad things about you on their site. MySpace was a good idea that got too fat on junk food. Xanga is for more mature bloggers who want to network and find cyberfriends to share their lives with.
I would definitely approve of the return of Featured Content over the Recommends feature. I hate the Recommend feature. It clogs up my site with Recommended crap. If I want to find new sites to visit, I’ll wander off into a new metro, go to sites from other user’s comments or troll for new sites on my own.
The thing that sucks about xanga featured was that most of the sites that got top were stupid, basically didnt say anything, and it was a bunch of little kids leaving comments just as stupid as the blog was about..NOTHING…. i have a myspace and a xanga, my xanga is my blog, my myspace is my family contact, picture sharing and bands contacts…
yah accha hai.
*bows down*
Yes master Dan.
wow Dan that was a mouthful, I have to admit I don’t understand all, but if you said it, that settles it.. I enjoy reading your site and old hat are some of my favorite, however there are a lot more but my mind can’t think of them all at the time, I’m glad that you are trying to make XANGA an interesting site. Some of the other one that you mentioned are a little kidish