March 23, 2008
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15 Year Old Boy Nailed to Cross
A 15-year-old boy was nailed to a cross in order to honor Jesus.
The boy and a few dozen others were nailed to a cross and others had their backs whipped to the point of bleeding to celebrate Good Friday in the Philipines. Here is the link: Link
Do you think this is an act of dedication or an act of insanity?
Comments (269)
Dedication, in their eyes-
I think they do it as an act of piety, but Christ did it so they wouldn’t have to, so I find it very sad.
Insanity.
Insanity.
At least, to any rational mind.
I’m a Christian and I still feel that it’s insanity. The poor boy…
@saintvi - Agree with you. I don’t think Christ would have wanted them do this
insanity. Jesus did it so that we wouldn’t have to.
I don’t think it’s honoring Jesus or anything, just insane.
Both.
It is dedication.
But that’s not mutually exclusive from insanity.
Why do it if Christ has already done it for us? That seems to be a statement that his sacrifice wasn’t good enough, and we have to continue punishing ourselves for our sins.
They always do this in the Philippines. I say it’s insanity.
Absolutely insanity.
That’s extreme dedication… I don’t think Jesus would have wanted them to do it though.
That sounds so horribly painful. *winces*
@GodArt - exactly
Insanity.
insanity.
omg
ya know… i don’t think they should be doing that… jesus did that stuff so we wouldn’t have to… so… doesn’t that defeat the purpose? i mean… come on…
that’s just wrong. He never intended anyone of us to suffer the same way He did. how can a human being understand Jesus’ pain on that cross? complete insanity on their part.
-sigh-
jesus did that so we wouldn’t have to experiance it
insanity. just plan insanity.
In my opinion, God suffered so that others would not have to. Though their dedication is inspiring, they are making sacrifices when the whole point of Christianity is to honor God’s sacrifice to us. It’s wrong.
@MCTCanadian - agreed
I think it’s an act of desperation by someone who doesn’t understand grace.
I think it’s crazy… but I do wish I had that kind of passion about something.
Ouch.
Insanity… was he the son of God? then what was the point?
Wow, crazy
insane. Wtf. Xo.
I think it is not honoring to God. It is like saying, “We can go through what YOU went through!” Not even close. I don’t think God asks it of anyone to attempt this. I also think in some ways it is a mockery to all that Christ went through for us. The whippings, beatings, crown of thorns, nails, vinegar, etc…were only a small part. Jesus had His Father turn His back on Him. I know it is hard to understand, but for a short period of time, Jesus knew what it was like to experience HELL. Hell is being separated from God. We cannot, nor should we, experience all that Christ went through for us. It is a FREE gift. No strings attached. No nails. No beatings. FREE.
Insanity. To them, it’s dedication… but I don’t think they see the real point behind Jesus dying on the cross. Well… they probably do, but I don’t think Jesus is down with others being nailed to the cross.
It’s some of the most horrific child abuse I have ever seen.
Anyone who justifies this action is absolutely evil.
Words can’t describe how much I am upset by what people have done to that child.
Insanity.
I’ve seen this done first hand. It’s so sad…
dedicated insanity
some people get so overzealous
I feel as if it echoed Jesus’s Pain.
Christ was exempt, so to honor him? Insanity.
*shudder*
Insanity.
THis is incredibly ironic.
@MyJudas - That kind of dedication produces 9/11, the holocaust, or the crusades. Nothing good can come from blind devotion.
See, this is the kind of shit religion brings. Damn the perpetrators of this act, damn jesus and damn this STOLEN, PERVERTED HOLIDAY.
Jesus suffered enough. This seems needless. Very needless.
It seems as though their “dedication” has become a bit of a spectical. I don’t believe that “crucifying” themselves is an act of devotion to Christ, especially because of what has become of some of these people’s displays (ponography). I’m pretty sure thatis not what the Lord has inteded for these displays, if at all. Besides, Jesus Christ was completley innocent of any sin when He was crucified, no human is ever without sin, so the whole point of these crucifictions is lost and maybe a bit confused to those participating in them.
Insanity. Jesus suffered for us, so that we might be spared the pain and suffering.
@saintvi -
I agree with you.
insanity.
I actually think it’s disrespectful as well.
Dedication. You have to take it within its cultural context. Certain rituals are viewed differently in other cultures.
this seems to happen every year. i think they see it as dedication to experience the same things as Christ. i think that maybe our salvation would mean more to us if we experienced this. but i don’t think that Christ dying that way or experiencing things that way was something that he meant for us to mimic exactly. i mean in those countries they already face enough persecution and such…why do this painful acting out?
Insanity.
I think it’s sincere devotion taken a little too far. Jesus hung on a cross so we wouldn’t have to.
Well, I think following any organized religion is a bit insane.
INSANITY
Insanity. But they don’t die at least. That was my first thought, was that this was excused murder, but no, it’s just a lot of gore and pain.
I was under the impression Jesus suffered so we wouldn’t have to.
-David
@ProneSoul - I agree!
I can see inFECTION of the hand coming soon enough.
15 year old? ?
there’s an AGE REQUIREMENT FOR THOSE. NO MINORS ALLOWED.
ur info is all WRONG man. trust me, i’m there every year. im a pinoy. i know their rules.
the people who get nailed on the cross are NEVER proving that they can do better that Christ (like some of you are commenting about). Just think of it that they want to share the suffering Christ did on the cross. Some pious Pinoys take the suffering of Christ LITERALLY. The concept might be wrong but their objectives are pure. i kinda think it’s insanity too.
Insanity. Pure insanity.
Well. you do what you gotta do.
I messed with your stars.
Haha.
@onegirlarmy03 - i agree
what the fock!
I’m guessing that those guys are also creatinoists.
@la_faerie_joyeuse -
Nothing good for *others,* you mean. Having faith generally feels pretty good to the ones that have it. That’s why millions of people are still clinging to religion like a child’s security blanket.
Insanity, most definetly.
WOW. They’re not kidding around, are they?
But I do feel that it’s rather insane. Didn’t Jesus go through all of that for us so that we won’t have to?
<33
Ignorant dedication.
You covered the same thing last year.
that is just… insane.
I think it is insanity and probably offends God. Jesus Christ, Savior to all, did it right the first time. Why insult his memory and try to “go what he went through”. He died for us, so we wouldn’t have too.
I wouldn’t say it’s insanity, maybe dedication with a misled outcome. Jesus died so that we didn’t have to. It’s almost saying, “I want my sins back, I’ll die.” Even though I highly doubt they think that way.
complete misunderstanding of the gospel message in that salvation is by grace not works.
besides how they do the crucifixion is all wrong anyways – if it was done right he’d be dead in just a short time….by suffocation.
It’s such a shame really
Jesus Mary Joseph and his technicolor dreamcoat!
Insane cultism.
This is too far. Jesus died for us so that we wouldn’t have to. That poor boy… Did he volunteer, or was he forced? The human body is a temple and should be treated better…
There are other ways to empathize with the sufferings of Christ.
Oh what people do in the name of religion.
Insanity! That junk makes us Christians look like psyco humans.
It depends.
what is the difference between dedication and insanity beside perception?
Insanity
i don’t think we can judge what other cultures believe is right and wrong…these people were raised on these rituals and beliefs and nothing else…it’s kind of like how we learn everything we know as right or wrong from our parents…they just learn a different perspective of right and wrong….we as a americans see this act as insanity, when they see this act as a show of love and dedication to God.
freaking insanity
Insanity suggests a person has a mental illness, this is something
different , its some kind of collective malfunction in which
tremendous importance is placed on a symbolic act that in most places
would be seen as both self abusive if one submitted to it ,and
abusive.I wonder what a cultural anthropologist would say about it
These people may have personality disorders that make them vulnerable to participation in this ritual ,or may be mentally ill, but the root cause is some kind if group dynamic. What bugs me the most is that these are young people who may need to work with their hands and who is to say they won’t do serious harm to nerves or tendons and so on? The other thought on a spiritual level is that it seems less about dedication then a quest to be recognized as holy.To draw attention like that to the level of devotion one feels in such a public way to me seems more ego driven then anything else.. its a form of one up man ship if you will except that the thing you are posturing about is your ability to suffer.At any rate with all the suffering life brings it seems kind of stupid to create some like this.
It’s funny that people raise such a stink every Easter when people in the Phillipines or elsewhere do this, yet no one raises to much a racket about the innocent people in Darfur crucified all the time (including children), or the 88 people crucified in Sudan in 2002 (some of them Christians), or the people executed by crucifixion in Yemen since 2000. But, boy, when people willingly do it as a devotional to bring themselves deeper in love with Christ, ooh, scandal.
i dont even know who to swear by, but all i know is it’s idiotic.
It’s different. Who am I to determine whether a person who chooses to express themselves in a bizarre manner that which is apparently significant to him? It’s about choice. It’s about freedom of religion. It’s about respect of free agency….isn’t it?
Misguided dedication.
Its a confused people with a confused doctrine of truth… Its clearly insanity but truly in an ignorant way because sadly they are really trying to please God… I say sadly because they think that it does when clearly God states many times in the Bible that are works of rightousness as they clearly see this as are as filthy rags…. Worthless in the eyes of eternity truly sad that they put souch young men and possibly women in such harms way for no reason….
Dedication born of insanity born of dedication. It’s a vicious cycle. And you wonder why some folks think religious people are nuts.
WHOAMAMA
@they_callmefaith -
I agree
Jesus would be proud.
I think it misses the point. Living faith in everyday life is hard enough without doing things like that. God never called anyone to die on the cross for the reasons he did. Peter died on the cross, too (according to tradition)…but he wouldn’t even insisted he be crucified upside down because he didn’t feel worthy to die in the same manner as Christ. I don’t see a reason that any Christian would need to do that nowadays, unless they were martyred or something. But to do it just to suffer…why not take that same time and energy and go do something for the church, help someone, learn some good theology, etc. I know there is a time and a place to bodily suffer, but for most of us, it won’t be on the cross! Thanks be to God!
@NightCometh - That’s a very well constructed comment.
OMG, both. Though, to me, more insane than dedicated. To them, they are more dedicated than insane.
both -_-
Insane because like what others said, Jesus did it so we wouldn’t have to. To save us all. Dedication because they chose to do it. I just don’t like the way the dedication & faith are shown in this action x_x
To them it’s an act of devotion. To me, it’s creepy. And I highly doubt Jesus would have wanted people to do that.
It makes everything Jesus did worthless and pointless. It’s throwing the Gospel away. If we could save ourselves, Jesus wouldn’t have to; and Christianity wouldn’t be real.
INSANITY.
well flaggellants have been around for centuries and so to them it is dedication. as they wish.
Insanity. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, so that no one else had to go through the torment. For these people to crucify people [at least in my eyes] shows that they don’t realize the gift Jesus gave them through His holy blood.
I agree with GodArt.
Insanely dedicated perhaps?
@ProneSoul - I agree with you. Jesus was teh ultimate sacrifice. No more need to be made because of what happened at the cross. We were set free.
lack of understanding
What happened to Jesus was just an act of violence, pure insanity. So is this. Did those poor boys die? or are they hospitalized?
It’s a Jesus Freak thing among us Filipinos. We used to watch this in the Philippines when we’d come home to the country for Good Friday. But for the past few years we just stayed in the city.
Sometimes I think it’s insane, but most of the time I think it’s brave.
@Mizmazed - nope. they went straight home afterwards. if anyone gets hurt, ofcourse the government would put a stop to it. but in years and years of practice, not even one case of hospitalization or death among the ones crucified was reported. PLUS, it’s impossible to have a 15-year old crucified because they have RULES for this. crucifying a minor would be too much. however, i still think this is dedication gone too far. not insanity but just misinterpretation of the Bible.
tetnus shots and no crown of thorns? i can hardly call that dedication.
also, where is all the blood? huh? am i the only one wondering?
@GodArt -
I agree.
You misspelled Philippines wrong. -.-
By the way, those are customs done by “sinners” in Philippines during Lent. The people who do that feel like simply asking for forgiveness isn’t enough. Therefore, they do other means to show their sacrifice like how Catholics would not eat meat on Friday during Lent. Except their sacrifices are much more radical. Not sure if it’s insanity because there is a reason behind what they do. It’s part of their faith. I don’t like how the people here judge by what they see from the pictures. Obviously, they don’t know anything about why people would do such things.
No, that’s just sick…
I watched that on the chinese news….even tho i didnt understand but i knew what was happening..
hes 15???!
I heard this always happen in phillipians..
I would like to see it happen…but then again i wouldnt…coz then…i would probably close my eyes through out it all..
Why did they follow Jesus to do this?…
Its insanity..even for christians.
No christians would do this…but instead would sacrifice themselves for thier loved ones…like being stepping infront of a car when there loved one is about to….get runned over…
ouch.
that was stupid. whatever pain they felt is nothing compared to what jesus went through. and your body “god’s temple” – they’re not taking very good care of it.
I lived in the Phillippines for two years, and sadly it is indeed common practice for them to crucify people in memory of Jesus. I saw one such procession take place.
To Americans it may be insanity, just as living sacrifices to Gods back in the Aztec or Inca days appears to us now. But to them, it is a matter of dedication, sincerity. And from what I recall, no one is actually forced to do this; they do it voluntarily.
So it may be insanity to us; but to them it is dedication. And while I think it is a misrepresentation of Jesus’ sacrifice, and not something Jesus called us to do ( I mean, according to church history, Peter felt himself unworthy to die Jesus’ death so he asked to be nailed upside down… so in my opinion crucifying yourself is almost like saying “oh look at me, I’m doing what Jesus did, I’m such a great person”, but that may not be how they see it), but to call it direct insanity, is probably uncalled for.
-Cryssie Leah
This is something that isn’t insanity to me. I guess because it’s something I thought was important to them. Of course, my father wasn’t too much of a fanatic as they are.
I never understood why they did this every year. But I don’t question their practice if they don’t question mine.
This is old news.
Philippines is spelled wrong too.
Neither. It’s ignorance.
Pure insanity.
I quite agree with UR_MUSE. You have to take it within cultural context. It might be insanity to others, but it must be dedication for them. It looks gruesome for people outside the country, but there are a lot of religious people here. Though I do not think it should be done, I cannot ignore the fact that they are willing to show their devotion through that act.
i must say i lean towards dedication. though they may over do it
It’s digusting.
But it’s dedication in their eyes. Disgusting in my eyes, but we can’t do anything about it.
Insanity. But hey, religion has always seemed that way to me, so it’s not THAT much of a surprise.
Okay, wait, they’re crucifying someone. Goddamn insanity.
@DJ__x - I quite agree with him. There is more to this practice than the pictures.
look fake to anyone else?
i’ve actually heard of this before. saw a photoblog on jpgmag.com. i gotta agree with what others have been saying. Jesus went to the cross so that we would not have to. poor kid.
@NightCometh -
Well said.
@DJ__x -
The sacrifice isn’t theirs to make. And to say that they don’t feel forgiven is to say that Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t strong enough to forgive them.
The very concept has the basics of Christianity ass-end backwards.
OMG..that’s horrible..he said to remember him..not bleed for him. that was the whole point of him dying for us.
that is extremeism
Definitely, insanity. This makes me cringe. Jesus did this for us, but this kids are only hurting themselves and there is no positive outcome. Wait…a 15-year-old? They shouldn’t even let that happen.
INSANITY! Because Christ died ONCE for ALL. There is NO reason what so ever that someone should do it again!!! HE COUNQURED DEATH. SO WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO FACE IT.
That’s ridiculously insane.
An 18 and 15 year old? What about adults?
Additionally, they are selling beer, ice cream, and souviners….that makes absolutely no sense. Maybe I could see this as a ceremony of devotion if they weren’t using such young people (who could have been influenced/forced to do it by their parents), and they weren’t treating it like a sporting event where you can get VIP seating.
This seems very warped.
@Ancient_Scribe -
He does have a point. Shouldn’t we be going after the people who are actually crucifying others and killing them? At least these people are volunteering, and they don’t die…
Ugh. That makes me sick to my stomach. I think they’ve missed the point entirely. . .so yeah, insanity.
Actually, I guess it’s consistent with their worldview, if they are trying to live up to the standard of the law. The law and Christ’s declaration of “Be ye perfect, as I am perfect,” are supposed to show us that we CAN’T do it. We need a mediator. Fortunately, Christ did the work for us (not just in His death, but also in His perfect life). So the self-torture is needless.
uh… I suppose they see it as dedication but again… I don’t think Jesus would have wanted this. It’s why we have communion and baptism, thats how we’re supposed to show we identify with Christ… not by mimicing his extremely painful sacrifice. o.o;
All I know, is that I sure as hell wouldn’t do it, or do it to someone else. I’ll stick to my bread and wine thank you.
OMG
WHAT!
it’s already 2008; no longer in B.C or whatsoever
insanity. i won’t go as far as to say stupidity…
there are plenty of other ways to celebrate, but no, they had to go with a reenactment. a painful one at that.
eh, it’s their way i guess. if it’s legal over there and everyone… “enjoys” it, then so be it.
Insanity. :
INSANITY!
Total insanity!!
insanity. not exactly suffering for our sins, are we?
A little blasphemous don’t you think?
Jesus did all of that so that we wouldn’t have to.
They are ridiculous.
Insanity! (to me)
It’s a mockery, I think.
Excellent point, ProneSoul.
=o
really now! insanity! Why go out of your way to do something like that if it wasn’t ordained by God? That’s not worship at all, and i doubt jesus would want anyone to go through what he did…it defeats the purpose; and who are these people to re-enact his crucifxion?
Idiocy, everyone knows that the romans crucified through the radius and ulna gap because the hands’ structures don’t support the body.
First of all, it’s the Philippines (you spelled it wrong). I’ve lived there half of my life.
It’s dedication to a misinformed faith.
kantianjester:
Actually, scholars have argued both ways, and both have been valid. After all, the nails in the hands didn’t need to support the whole body.
(Once again, popular beliefs fails to correctly inform.)
Insanity!
Okay, I almost felt sick reading that and seeing the pictures. I do not think that is an appropriate or humane way to show dedication.
Thus my answer is an act of insanity.
Insanity….
I really don’t see the point to ‘repeat’ such cruxification after all.
omg that is INSANE
i don’t care how religious you are or are not that is friggin NUTS!
people should go to jail for this!
there are a zillion other things that would have the same effect (honor the big J) that this had…
insane.insane.insane
INSANNNNNEEEE
ok im better
@StarlightsCries - totally agree.
@GodArt - maybe that was their exact point
thanks for sharing (i mean that in a nice way not sarcastic)
@ProneSoul - if he did it so we wouldnt have to suffer why do some many people suffer horribly through no fault of their own every second of every day?
@trapt_in_a_reverie - how could you just watch that omg i would try to stop it. just me tho
hey wheres the blood. didn’t christ bleed?
That’s just fucked up.
i think it’s more of a misunderstanding than insanity.
jesus does not want to be honored this way.
This event already occured. It is impossible to take pain from something that has already suffered. So yes. This is INSANITY.
Wow. This makes me really sad.
I think it’s dedication in their eyes, but to me this just seems wrong, cruel… this is extreme.
Yeah, I agree that Christians believe Jesus suffered this so people wouldn’t have to be punished. I don’t think this is the right way to celebrate him.
And people also brought up a good point that it could be both. I think dedication can go so far as to being fervent and blind passion. Almost a craze or obsession (but not so harsh, i guess).
That boy is only 15!!
Insane dedication. I live in the country where this is a ritual done every single year, but still, I can never see it as a proper way of expressing devotion.
It wasn’t just the physical pain on the cross that Jesus was taking for us…it was the complete separation of God’s love and mercy from him. So although it seems as if these people were suffering as an act of dedication, that same act could never be repeated…and in our eyes it looks absolutely insane…because some of us get it.
In my opinion, it’s insanity. Like one of the other posters said, Jesus already took care of that so we’d never have to experience it.
how sad………….it’s dedicative insanity………….
@one_trached_momma - PHysical suffering is nothing, in all honesty. It’s awful, and we should try to better our circumstances, and those of others, but it is earthly. We do no have to suffer as Christ did on the cross, however, because in that instance he took the sins from the people. Actually, it would be better of me to say that it is Impossible to suffer as Christ did. To try to mimick it is more of a mockery than anything. There dedication to their faith, although admirable, is fruitless to the extent that their pain achieves nothing in mankind, only in themselves. Ooh, I’m getting away from the point.
Simply: God did not take away suffering, he took away sin and forgave his people. We need not suffer to recreate it.
@ProneSoul - you wrote It’s awful, and we should try to better our circumstances, and those of others, but it is earthly.
Ok i hear what you are saying. next time my daughter is in the hospital facing yet ANOTHER medical test that she had no control over i will make sure she knows to better her circumstances. Suffering is suffering no matter who does it. If he forgave all sins blah blah blah then why does he still punish us.
Sorry just my opinion is think it is all crap. All wonderful and powerful god. If there is a god he is sitting back up there with a stiff cup of coffee laughing his ass off. WE are like puppets to him. He is probably thinking what can i do to that person to make them worship and adore me. I think he is pretty selfish himself.
bring on the hate mail
….
@one_trached_momma - Dude, calm down. You’re taking this a lot more personally than you should. I’m sorry that your daughter is in the hospital facing one of many medical tests….I hope you don’t mind me saying, because I have the best intentions…but she’s in my prayers?
I hate, however, that you’re turning this debate into something it was never intended to be. We’re arguing about whether people should mutilate and harm themselves in devotion to their beliefs, not whether said belief is right or wrong. Please, stick to the argument at hand. I could give you a million reasons why I believe in God.
And 10 gazillion more on why I often don’t.
That’s right: most of the time, I’m Agnostic, if not athiest. But right now, I’ve hit a religious streak (I apologize to those who consider this impossible…because apparently it is possible to go back and forth. I’m a weird person?), but honestly, I know how you feel. But again, he only took away sins.
And, I know it’s hard….but when you get past the moment of pain…er, say you’ve gone blind, but it’s only temporary. You suffer because it’s awful to see nothing but black day in and day out….but once you can see again, isn’t it all the more glorious? It may be a cruel game, but suffering makes life all the more worth living in many ways. At least, that’s how I see it.
I can really see where you are coming from, but please, refrain from attacking me over my opinion. I had no intention of angering you.
@one_trached_momma - Also, don’t ask for hate mail. It makes it sound as though you’re up on your high horse, when I think you intend on making a decent argument (at least, I hope that’s what you’re doing).
It also tempts me to give it.
insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus already did it.
I don’t think doing that would necessarily make you closer to God or anything.
I don’t know. Maybe.
But one thing’s for sure…
it takes some serious balls to do that.
I’m filipino and I find this completely normal actually, no one never dies doing this, I’ve would have done this too for my sins.
im shocked at the fact that someone would think of this. ok, why do we have easter? yes think of why we do..
Filipinos are ritualistic.. they do it to cleanse themselves of sin… are they dedicated? hell yeah! are they insane! even more so!
i’m a filipina and i think there are better ways to show devotion during holy week than to pretend you’re jesus and shame the whole country by branding it with a “freakshow open for all” during this particular holiday…
i’m sad cuz i think the essence of the sacrifice is lost to these people…
I think they REALLY misunderstood something in scripture. If people are willing to suffer for Christ, fine, but to seek it out and do it to yourself??? That to me, does not seem wise and it certainly does not help the world to understand Christ better. I suppose for these people, it may help them understand the suffering and get closer to Christ but it does not seem logical at all. Do you actually read all of these???
I think the line between dedication and insanity can be so thin at points that the difference lies in the POV. Since they’re not hurting anyone but themselves in this I’ll say dedication
I’ll not call them insane. They are following the example of Christ. Religeous fervor should not be mistaken for anything other than what it is. What they fail to realize however is the reason Christ died on the cross to begin with. Christ died for our sins, so that we would not have to sacrifice the lamb, as it were, to atone for our sins. The sacrifice of the cross is something that we as men cannot recreate for we can never bear the burden of every sin of men. This is what Christ felt when he cried out, ” Father! Why hast thou forsaken me? ” It was under this burden that Christ died. He has taken them from us, and all we have to do is allow him to redeem us in the eyes of the Father. Can mortal men do that? NO!
although it may seem right in their eyes,- Jesus was the ULTIMATE sacrifice. There is no need for this.
@saintvi -
it is very sad. It makes me sad because I’m here in the PHilippines and I know that these things happen every year. :[
@ordinary_climbfall - i agree with you so much. i honestly think that this is an unbelievable misunderstanding. unfortunately for me, I’m here in the Philippines but I can’t do anything about it. I’m only one. the catholic church is too big to battle with.
@SusieQ_IluvU -
it’s really extreme. and it happens every year. every good friday, when I’m on my way to church, i would see like dozens of guys about 15 years old who are walking in the heat of the sun without slippers or anything. and they are all carrying a cross.
Insanity
I find this very disturbing.
um…painful?
hoe
Neither. It’s just their way of life. Just like how Americans mostly have a fast food diet and Filipinos have time to cook for their families. We’re all different so we shouldn’t look at each other like strangers. In order to understand another culture, one must see them through their eyes and not their own.
I am from the Philippines.
Although we have this in our culture, I do not condemn it. I myself don’t know why some people in parts of the Philippines do this, but they are my fellowmen.
The least you could do in posting this is to respect the Holy Week as well as the cultures of other people in different countries.
@Completely_Compelled -
I’m VERY disappointed in you. You are one of the most beautiful writers here in xanga, and to choose to disrespect the cultures of another country is to disrespect the individual who is from that country.
I am from the Philippines.
Sad to say, some of the people here are not as educated and some may not understand Christianity that well. But I don’t condemn them just because they do what they do. They are after all, my fellowmen and at least they are doing something symbolic. Would you rather have these people worship satanic images instead?
You know, the least you could do for Christ that Holy Week was to RESPECT other people’s cultures.
I don’t see WHY people even agree with this Mr. Theologians Cafe. Who is HE to even conclude that this is insanity? Mr. Theologians Cafe or whoever his name is is not God. And UNLESS God says what these people are doing is insane, you cannot condemn nor disrespect the cultures of my people.
@c_jamaica -
Dan (TheologianCafe) did not express that he concluded that this was insanity or not. Practically all of his posts are impartial.
Secondly, no, I would not like them to worship satanic images.
What most of us are saying is that Jesus’ sacrifice to us is a precious gift. And when the people who crucify themselves do this, they are in fact disrespecting Jesus’ sacrifice because Christ sacrificed himself so we wouldn’t have to suffer that way. This is wrong because they cannot come close to mimicking Christ’s sacrifice. They cannot take the physical pain AND bear the sins of each and every person in the whole world (I believe we both can agree on that last sentence).
I happen to love the Filipino culture and just because this small portion or ritual of a culture is believed to be wrong, I don’t trash the culture altogether. We are just discussing what is at hand: the unnecessary symbolic rituals that happen to take place in the Philippines. A lot of people in the Philippines agree that this is both disrespectful and unnecessary. purpleritz20 would be one of them.
And to add on,
none of us are God. God is God.
And the Bible is what guides us to conclude that this is wrong.
It is sad that people think that such acts will be pleasing to Jesus or God. Where in the Bible does it say to do such a thing to oneself? Answer: No where. Whoever thinks up these things is really not quite right.
May they and us all truely know God, and His mercies towards us, and what He really wants us to do. (For example, feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit and pray for the sick, preach the gospel of good news of salvation in the merits of Jesus.)
Are they mutually exclusive?
Good friday is about celebrating his life, his choices, his sacrifice… going thru the physical pain that Jesus went thru, isn’t an act of worship.. it’s an act of self worship.
I mean seriously, who’s up on the cross right now? jesus or them? So WHO does this glorify? (wry grin)…
besides, it isn’t him being ON the cross that’s the greatest thing Jesus ever did, it’s what’s NOT on the cross anymore.. that’s the greatest thing Jesus ever did.
@c_jamaica - No you need to read his post again. He’s just asking whether the public thinks that this is an act of insanity or dedication. He never stated his side of the topic .
@c_jamaica - Also I, too, am Filipino but it kind of feels strange how you stated “my people” instead of “we” or something else without a possesive form. I was raised as a Catholic, but over the years I have grown interested with other religions and it’s nice to know how they feel or think. In my personal opinion, religion and believing in some sort of higher power heals a person both emotionally and physically. Just like meditating or yoga, it helps relieve the stress and make the mind more positive. Religion is like a subject/area that we study or become interested in like music, math, farytales, and so on. However it has no proven facts so it’s incorrect to say that one is better than another.
Insanity.
@ordinary_climbfall -
“Practically all of his posts are impartial.”
WHATEVER. Dan might have posted this as something impartial but the FACT is that Dan has a lot of FANS and I’ve been a follower of most of Dan’s post, and MOST or ALMOST ALL of his readers always agree with what he is posting.
Jesus’ sacrifice is IMPORTANT to me too. However, I don’t also want to condemn my fellowmen just because they are not as educated as me and some Christians about Christianity and Jesus’ sacrifice. And besides, if this is really something insane and immoral, how come Jesus did not punish them or something? How can YOU and ALL the people who said this is insane JUDGE that this is something insane? Has God ever told you it is?
I am a Filipino and I WILL always BE LOYAL to my country and to my fellowmen no matter how silly they are sometimes. No man is EVER perfect, so in case YOU don’t want ME to take a stab at your own culture, then maybe you should practice respect.
By the way, if you call this insane, then you DON’T love the Filipino culture. I have been in the Philippines my whole life. I was born here, I was raised here. I know that the Philippines has a lot of corrupt government officials and a lot of controversies, but STILL, it is MY country and no amount of flim-flam can ever take away my devotion to our culture here or our people.
You are NOT Jesus, so unless Jesus says it is insane, then I will bow down and say I was wrong.
@TANGENA -
WHATEVER. Dan might have posted this as something impartial but the FACT is that Dan has a lot of FANS and I’ve been a follower of most of Dan’s post, and MOST or ALMOST ALL of his readers always agree with what he is posting.
I don’t care if you are a Filipino. If you think that OUR culture is insane, then you are NOT Filipino.
Jesus’ sacrifice is IMPORTANT to me too. However, I don’t also want to condemn my fellowmen just because they are not as educated as me and some Christians about Christianity and Jesus’ sacrifice. And besides, if this is really something insane and immoral, how come Jesus did not punish them or something? How can YOU and ALL the people who said this is insane JUDGE that this is something insane? Has God ever told you it is?
I am a Filipino and I WILL always BE LOYAL to my country and to my fellowmen no matter how silly they are sometimes. No man is EVER perfect, so in case YOU don’t want ME to take a stab at your own culture, then maybe you should practice respect.
By the way, if you call this insane, then you DON’T love the Filipino culture. I have been in the Philippines my whole life. I was born here, I was raised here. I know that the Philippines has a lot of corrupt government officials and a lot of controversies, but STILL, it is MY country and no amount of flim-flam can ever take away my devotion to our culture here or our people.
You are NOT Jesus, so unless Jesus says it is insane, then I will bow down and say I was wrong.
@c_jamaica - Calm down. I’m sorry that you took my and other commenters responses as a “stab”. That was unintentional. I did not say it is insanity. If you look at the very first comment I made on this post, I said “this is a misunderstanding, not insanity”. So no, I do not think this is insanity. I (and others for the most part) are not standing in the background, pointing or laughing. I think that is a stab. Hopefully, all of us were cringing instead of laughing. Worrying instead of joking. Is that a stab?
Neither tangena or I stated it was insanity. Most of us agree it is a misunderstanding issue. And even if some Filipinos DO think it is insane, they are still Filipino. Just because they don’t like this ONE symbolic ritual (which by the way isn’t even agreed upon by most in the country), does not mean they think the whole culture and country is insane.
There is no need to ask me if I am God or Jesus. “Has God ever told you it is?” — Again, the Word of God is what tells us this is wrong.
Though I have seen that commenters have put “insane” or “insanity”, I and a good half of the commenters on this entry have not. I did not take a stab at the Filipino culture and will never intend to.
I’m glad that you will always be loyal to your fellow Filipinos, but loyalty doen’t always mean refusing to point out something when it’s wrong. If my Vietnamese dad stayed “loyal” to his country in your concept of loyalty, he would have still stayed in Vietnam after the Vietnam War to be opressed by the Communist government, leading to a bigger issue of poverty and lack of opportunities for himself and his children..instead of being here in America. I’m just saying the concept of loyalty here can be differing.
Are the many Filipinos (even in the Philippines) who say this is wrong really disrespecting their own culture? I don’t think so. Like purpleritz20, isn’t her love for her fellow countrymen what makes her want this suffering to stop? Is that not demonstrating loyalty?
Yes, I hope this does stop in the future. And I think when true missionaries go over to the Philippines, it’ll open the eyes of many Philippine people so that they themselves can spread the true word of God.
(referring to the last sentence)
not to say that every christian in the philippines are corrupted or don’t have sound doctrine! that’s not what i meant to say.
Insanity. I feel bad for that boy and the others. :-/
I’m a Filipino, and have lived here all my life. Every Holy Week, this act of “insanity” or “dedication” or what have you is televised, along with other traditional activities Catholics go through in order to commemorate the passion of Jesus.
Personally I think that nailing people on the cross to remember how Jesus died on Good Friday is unnecessary, BUT I respect my own culture enough (as I would anybody else’s culture) to not call it insane.
Mind you, Holy Week is the height of religious devotion in the Philippines, as I assume it is in any other country. And how each nation celebrates it should not be judged. To each his own.
@ordinary_climbfall -
“Again, the Word of God is what tells us this is wrong.”
Oh? Guess what? I read my Bible often and I did not find anything that says Jesus condemns the Filipinos for nailing themselves to the cross.
Haven’t you heard of the golden rule? Do not do unto others what you don’t want others to do unto you? Seems like almost everyone here who are Dan’s fans are pretty much telling that ONE act of my people’s culture insane. So what if me and my people are NOT perfect?
Are you? Instead of criticizing us with that one act, why don’t you do some research and state something GOOD about Filipinos. I do not hate you, or the people who posted those negativity all over this post or even Dan, the author of this post. I am DISAPPOINTED. For so long, I have been striving to be a better person, to be more gentle, be more forgiving, understanding and more respectful to others no matter what. And to see CHRISTIANS bringing down a whole group of people for just ONE act is really disheartening.
You know what I have learned through life? The only way for an individual or a whole nation to collapse or get crippled is that those who love them are more interested in focusing on flaws rather than strengthening their strengths. I’ve lived my life observing that fact. Like for us Filipinos, so many of us are working overseas just to earn a living. People all over the world focus on us being prostitutes, being maids and cleaning ladies and other stuff like that. They never see the other side that Filipinos are really creative, are good craftsmen, we are hospitable and we are hardworking. Don’t you even see in the news, in CNN? They always feature the BAD things of a certain country or race and not just the Philippines.
As Christians, we ought to be UNITED to boost each other up, not look down on each other just because some entertainer like Dan want to post some juicy piece of gossip.
I defend my country and my people because I live here. And I KNOW that NOT all Filipinos know and understand the true concept of Christianity. But instead of calling them crazy, I just respect them. It doesn’t mean I WANT people to nail themselves on the cross like Jesus. It just means I forgive them and understand them because they do not know what they are doing.
To say they are insane or that what they are doing is insane is to mock God. Because God didn’t even punish these people and for sure, God disapproves of these people nailing themselves, but He is MORE understanding.
And those of you who claim you are Christians, please…..annoy someone else. Or better yet, make your OWN culture that is wacky and weird. Maybe all of you just needs to wind down.
@c_jamaica - You need to reread my replies carefully. I never stated that it was insane of them to do such traditional activities. And if someone even from that country says that it’s wrong, that’s their opinion and you should not say that “You’re not Filipino..” My parents were born there and they gave birth to me in the United States; so I am a Filipino-American. And obvioiusly I am not Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, or whatever god a religion believes in. I am a human being just like you.
Some people do, in fact, “hate” on their own country.. but that’s them! Even though a person who is born to a certain country, it does not mean that that person has to like the country itself.
And I must agree with ordinary_climbfall. You need to calm down.
@TANGENA -
I don’t need to calm down. I think those of you who said this was insane are the ones who should calm down. In fact, I am not shocked by this “spiritual” act – you did, and so did the rest of Dan’s friends.
I am sorry for being a little harsh. I’m tired of this and I don’t want to explain myself all over again.
I just don’t know why you and the rest choose to call that one “spiritual” act insane. If you’d hear me out, here’s something I’d like to point out:
I was disheartened because all of you immediately think it was “insane” even if they don’t even know the truth behind it. I can think of a million things that are insane, but that nailing of the cross isn’t. It’s a little over the top, to be taking Jesus’ suffering like that, but however, there are a million things people ought to think of insane than that one “spiritual” act. For one, that magician David Blaine, who drowned himself in a glass of water for days, I think even weeks.. Now, THAT’s insane. Why in the world would someone drown himself for the sake of showing off? Or for the sake that people will believe it is magic or something? Also, have you seen Ripley’s Believe it or Not? People who would have sex change, people who EAT fetuses, people who would drink milk and then spill it out through their eyes, people who EAT glass, people who treat cockroaches as jewelry, people who use CONDOMS as embroidery on their clothes – THESE are INSANE. That one cultural act from the Philippines was something that was intended for Jesus. However wrong it is and no matter if the people who did it misunderstood the meaning of Christianity, but STILL – their intent was for Jesus. And unless Jesus says it is wrong, I don’t think it should be considered as insane.
The thing that really led me to be harsh and I am truly sorry about that, was that those who made comments on that particular post were mostly Christians. And it bothered me that MY FELLOW Christians were willing to condemn that ONE flaw against their OWN fellow Christians, instead of trying to research on why they did that particular act.
BTW, I’m sorry to all if I was harsh. I don’t want to argue about this anymore. I have explained it all and I hope you all will understand.
@c_jamaica - ”And those of you who claim you are Christians, please…..annoy someone else. Or better yet, make your OWN culture that is wacky and weird. Maybe all of you just needs to wind down.”
I could tell you a few of the things that are wrong with these sentences; that is, if they are sentences to begin with. Also, I sense that you dislike Christians. Since when is “weird” a bad thing? There is nothing wrong with culture being weird, or even a person being weird. “Variety adds spice to life.” We are all different; and thus, we all have different opinions.
@c_jamaica - Again, I never said that it was insane. You are not reading carefully. Forget that I even placed my comments.
wow, honoring and dedication never should be mixed in with self mutilation. i dont think jesus will be very happy from that lol. morons
@AllBlindtoSublime - Uhh.. Filipinos aren’t, what you have called, morons. Every culture is different, not ignorant, disturbing, and so forth; they have their own set of values and interests. We may think that it’s insane as much as how we are technologically more advanced through their own eyes. Plus, they are not hurting anybody. So no one is notably stupid; they have their own way of living.
Omg. Insanity. Delayed response. But insanity. Woah, insanity. Wooooah, insanity. Wooooooo… okay. I’m done.
to me religious radicals will always be insane because they reach the point of murder or self mutilation to honor their religion, which in turn hurts themselves or others. i know in the end it is just perception/opinion and difference in cultural norms. so i am entitled to my opinion, thank you very much. i also never said fillipinos are morons. lol, i love filipinos.
Try idiocy.
I can see how maybe THEY might consider it an act of sacrifice, but if they consider Jesus loving and compassionate they should also realize that he probably wouldn’t want them to do that, since he choose to die for our sins so we wouldn’t have to. That kind of defeats the purpose. There are other ways to show sacrifice that aren’t so painful.
@TANGENA -
I do not dislike Christians. THAT is the WHOLE point.
That’s why I am rebuking those who are calling this nailing of the cross thing as “insane” is because I LOVE my fellow Christians and I am disheartened over the fact that instead of criticizing these people, you are all trying to say that what they are doing is immoral or insane.
As I have said, NOT ALL Filipinos who live here know the full meaning of Christianity. So, instead of all of you trying to criticize, the least you could do is pay your respect by just trying to understand them instead of calling it crazy.
YOU are NOT listening at all.
I have nothing against variety or spice of life. In fact I love differences.
What I don’t like is when MY fellow CHRISTIANS are putting each other down just because OUR culture is different.
And again, there are a MILLION ways that are insane. Eating glass for one. And so is treating cockroaches as jewelry. And using condoms as some kind of design in fashion! Jeez!
This act of nailing oneself to the cross is a “spiritual” act and I know it is wrong, but at least it HAS A PURPOSE. However these people worship Jesus, at least they do.
INSANE things are things that are done with NO purpose at all, and all for the sake of nonsense like those I have mentioned.
This will be my last reply.
there’s belief and then there’s the unbelievable.
that was unbelievable.
That is nuts. Insanity in a nutshell.
were do you get this info
It’s a tradition in the provinces of the Philippines when they celebrate Lent. They sometimes do this to reenact what happened to Jesus when he dies on the cross.
@AllBlindtoSublime - Lol sorry. I thought you were referring to Filipinos as morons. I do believe in your opinion that it’s sad some people would go through pain for their religion. To begin with, I dislike pain; it’s like a curse! Also, I feel that God has suffered for us and our sins so that we don’t have to suffer at all. However, most Filipinos aren’t only Christians, they are also Muslims. I wonder how they honor their god(s)..
wow wtf… that is insane
I’m filipino and I know about this stuff already. I was shocked when I found out, but it’s true spiritual dedication to him.
I think it’s AGB
Attention Getting Behavior.
I think it is a perfect example of the perversion of faith and religion. People seem to come up with the most HORRID ways of “celebrating” or “practising” their faith based dogmas. This kind of behaviour fuels the arguments set forth by agnostics and atheists who oppose the Christian faith so doggedly. It’s not insanity. It’s bloody stupidity.
@c_jamaica - How one can defend a misguided act of religious perversion in an attempt to “honour” the ideas of the central figurehead of said religion is beyond me. Christ’s (supposed) crucifixion was supposed to be the LAST sacrifice of the world, and to put someone else through it in “honour” of his sacrifice, well, that is a form of either stupidity or insanity. Either one, it doesn’t look good for those who defend or agree with the act. This isn’t to say all Filipinos are bad nor stupid, but those who are staunch defenders or practicioners of this event ARE. There is no defending such vicious assaults of the human body or mind in the name of religion.
@Schristian -
“How one can defend a misguided act of religious perversion in an attempt to “honour” the ideas of the central figurehead of said religion is beyond me. Christ’s (supposed) crucifixion was supposed to be the LAST sacrifice of the world, and to put someone else through it in “honour” of his sacrifice, well, that is a form of either stupidity or insanity.”
No, it’s not. However, people like David Blaine and all those other freaks on TV who do those stupid and insane things for NOTHING and just for the show of it – THOSE are INSANE.
At least, even if those Filipinos did something terrible to their bodies, it is with a purpose. It was misguided and that I know. But at least, they have a purpose.
I defend it even if it is a misguided “Christian” act because THEY are MY fellowmen. And NONE of you are even from the Philippines, so how can you DARE say that it is insane?
If you are an expert on our culture here and know our traditions, our festivals and what not, then you can have my permission to criticize us.
But if not, I would really appreciate it if you just shut up.
I’m tired of this.
To be honest, if there is ONE big idiot in all of this, it is the author of this post, Mr. Theologians_Cafe.
Right, (sarcasm) Theology – the root word for Theologian, and yet MOST of his posts are to criticize everybody.
WHAT the FUCK that’s so sick. I hate organised religion makes a lot of nutter people crazy.
@c_jamaica - ”At least, even if those Filipinos did something terrible to their bodies, it is with a purpose. It was misguided and that I know. But at least, they have a purpose”
Ok, so by your logic, if I believe that it is holy and righteous to rape 14 year old girls, then it is not stupid or insane because at least it has a purpose. Your logic is flawed and based around an idea that harming oneself in the name of religion is ok and acceptable. It’s not.
“I defend it even if it is a misguided “Christian” act because THEY are MY fellowmen. And NONE of you are even from the Philippines, so how can you DARE say that it is insane?”
This is an incredibly bigoted comment. Just because you are from the Philippines doesn’t make your opinion valid nor does it remove OUR right to form an opinion on what’s happening in the Philippines. You are insensitive and self-righteous. I never called it an act of insanity, so you bringing that up with me showcases your lack of understanding of what you are reading. I never, EVER supported people like David Blane so please, drop it already. It doesn’t excuse the horrible things done to children in the name of Christ. It’s misguided, horrific, and utterly WRONG. So unless you provide me with a VIABLE reason as to why this monstrosity is taking place every year, I will assume your side of the argument to be wrong and void.
“If you are an expert on our culture here and know our traditions, our festivals and what not, then you can have my permission to criticize us”
And who gave you the right to tell me what I can and cannot criticize? You come across as a know-nothing bully with a flawed sense of faith in something you obviously don’t understand. I don’t NEED to be an expert on your culture to tell you that your interpretations of the Bible are frightening and disillusioned. I don’t have to know everything about your land to say that I whole-heartedly disagree with your custom of nailing an innocent child to a cross to “honour” a freakin ficticious zombie who’s sole purpose was to cease future sacrifices or deaths in the name of God. So in essence you have perverted Christianity to a level that is disrespectful and disgusting in the eyes of those who try to FOLLOW the teachings of Christ, not pretend they are LIKE Christ.
I just want to point out that 1) we need to respect other people’s cultures and 2) we need to respect other people’s opinions. No matter how shallow, deep, dumb or smart they are.
@Schristian -
“Ok, so by your logic, if I believe that it is holy and righteous to rape 14 year old girls, then it is not stupid or insane because at least it has a purpose.”
(huge sigh of bewilderment)
You know what? I am tired of arguing and debating in here. It’s a waste of time! But I am a person who is willing to listen, so I am tolerating your ignorance.
By my logic, I believe that ANY ACT that is offered to Jesus Christ is NOT insane.
Where, in any of my comments in here did I even say that rape is logical and good and right?
The topic here is a “Christian” act, not the actions of madmen who only want sexual satisfaction.
You are OUT of line, OUT of the topic and OUT of your mind!
Your logic and everyone else’s in here who says that nailing on the cross for Jesus is insane is FLAWED.
If you have read any of my previous comments, I do not accept this kind of behavior or act. But because I know that some of my fellowmen here in the Philippines DO NOT KNOW the full concept of what Christianity is, therefore, MY LOVE FOR THEM extends to my tolerance of their act. I do not say that what they are doing should be done by all people or that we should praise them, but since they are misguided, the least I can do for God’s people is to RESPECT them.
And since you are NOT from the Philippines, please refrain from making critical judgments on something that you don’t even understand.
I have the right to say what I want to say based on two reasons:
1) I am from the Philippines and until YOU and the rest of those who are criticizing our culture here KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE OUT HERE, then yes, you may freely judge us. How do you know that what these people are doing is insane? Can you read their minds?
What I deem insane is doing things without any beneficial and good purpose. Something that robs people of good conduct, something that will be harmful to OTHER PEOPLE. This nailing of the cross is a tradition and even if I scream at the top of my lungs at them to stop them, THEY will never listen because this tradition has been going on for years and years. The least I can do is RESPECT them.
If you’re calling me a bigot, YOU are the biggest hypocrite I have ever known. You claim to know about religion and spirituality and what did it taught you exactly? To disrespect other people’s culture and call them insane because it is not “right” in your eyes?
If there are insane acts, these are the following: raping, sodomizing, cannibalism, eating fetuses, abortion, treating cockroaches as jewelry, using condoms as brooches on clothes, drowning yourself and letting the whole world see it on tv just so you can prove to yourself that you can do magic or something, drinking blood from wild animals, pedophilia, killing people and cutting up their bones and putting it inside the fridge – THESE are crazy acts. Acts that were done for pleasure, and human satisfaction.
The nailing of the cross was NOT for human satisfaction. It was an act for Jesus – for grief, for the Holy Week and no matter if it is misguided, at least these people don’t eat fetuses or rape kids.
“You are insensitive and self-righteous.”
Right. (sarcasm) So, being respectful to other people is insensitive and self-righteous? Think again, mr.hotshot because I happen to LOVE people and cultures. I have penpals from all over the world and no matter how weird they are and even if I don’t understand their land, their people and their behavior, I do not disrespect them by calling them insane. You are the one who lacks understanding. By calling me a bigot, self-righteous and insensitive, HA! I can just LAUGH at that! I even rescue kittens in garbage dumps and I have been to really odorous places where a lot of homeless people live. I’ve seen a LOT of dirty things in this world and do I disrespect them? NO. I don’t understand what they do, why they do it, but at least I’m not some conformist hotshot who automatically makes harsh judgments about a certain culture just because they think it’s “insane” in their eyes.
I don’t NEED to justify and to give reasons about my culture to you.
If you can’t RESPECT us – even by just shutting your mouth and just let us be and just LOVE us, then you are NOTHING.
You’re NOT worth it.
I value respect a lot. I’ve been through hell and back. I’ve been called names, I’ve been teased, my family’s been through hell and I have seen my sister doing things that she ought not to do, but she’s MY SISTER and even if I still get irritated with her like all siblings do, I don’t hate her and I am not angry with her anymore.
If there’s one thing Jesus taught me, is to RESPECT other people even if you don’t understand them at all. He KNOWS everything – He’s the only one who can make critical judgments. He made us all DIFFERENTLY and unless you can accept that, then you have not Christ in you.
@Schristian -
PS: Second reason…
2) I have learned a lot from experiences, from other people and from God and I have learned that no matter WHAT you say, even if you have ALL the FACTS in the world, no one will listen to you until they know that YOU care for them. No one will want to listen to you until you humble yourself and accept the fact that people are created differently – different minds, different perceptions, different means of making a living, different faces and different lives. And because of this, ALL OF YOU NEED TO RESPECT. WE ALL NEED TO RESPECT. I don’t get that vibe from you.
And I sure as hell am tired of debating in here.
@c_jamaica - ”You know what? I am tired of arguing and debating in here. It’s a waste of time! But I am a person who is willing to listen, so I am tolerating your ignorance.”
Ok, before I go any further, the preceding comment of yours completely nullifies the postceding comments. If you’re TRULY tired of debating, you’d cease to speak on the subject. What you’re doing now is just losing your cool over something I said, typical novice debating mistake.
“By my logic, I believe that ANY ACT that is offered to Jesus Christ is NOT insane.”
Right, so if I raped a child as an offering to Jesus, that would be anything but insane, which is something I never called the nailing of the child to the cross. You’re really thick aren’t you?
“Where, in any of my comments in here did I even say that rape is logical and good and right?”
You didn’t. I never said you did, however, I used your logic to create a situation in which a horrific act of violence is depicted as ok because it has a purpose. Re-read what you said carefully.
“The topic here is a “Christian” act, not the actions of madmen who only want sexual satisfaction.”
No, the topic here is NOT a Christian act as nothing in the Bible says that in rememberance of Jesus should we nail innocent children to crosses, self-flaggelate, or otherwise harm, mutilate, or inflict injury upon another living thing in the name of God or Jesus. In fact, it is highly considered to be heathenistic and immoral by common Christian standards. Cultural or not, it goes against BASIC Christian teachings that those who practise this perverted act of brutality cannot seem to fathom.
“You are OUT of line, OUT of the topic and OUT of your mind!”
Says the person who endorses harming people in the name of a fictional character.
“Your logic and everyone else’s in here who says that nailing on the cross for Jesus is insane is FLAWED.”
Based on what grounds? You offer no objective information other than faith based opinion. Your viewpoint is ignorant and empty. How is it flawed? And again, I never said the act was insane. You’re just being irrational and completely ignoring what I’m saying. Another common mistake in novice debators.
“If you have read any of my previous comments, I do not accept this kind of behavior or act. But because I know that some of my fellowmen here in the Philippines DO NOT KNOW the full concept of what Christianity is, therefore, MY LOVE FOR THEM extends to my tolerance of their act. I do not say that what they are doing should be done by all people or that we should praise them, but since they are misguided, the least I can do for God’s people is to RESPECT them.”
Loving someone is one thing, defending their perversion of a basic idea of LOVE, HARMONY, and PEACE is another. You never said that you disagree with this act, you blatantly defend it as “acceptable in the eyes of God” because it is done in honour of Jesus Christ. This “tradition” is wrong and misguided.
“And since you are NOT from the Philippines, please refrain from making critical judgments on something that you don’t even understand.”
There you go making bigoted statements again. I am a human being and therefore I have every right to judge someone based off of the facts presented to me. You have no right to try and deny me those rights. That makes you ignorant.
“I have the right to say what I want to say based on two reasons:
1) I am from the Philippines”
That doesn’t give you any rights. That’s bigoted and insensitive. I live in America where Freedom Of Speech is in our LAW. It is upheld in courts, on the local web sites, on the streets, and in other various locales, but this does NOT give me the right to say anything, rather it is the fact that I live and breathe that gives me the right to speak freely, a right you seem hellbent on taking away from me.
“and until YOU and the rest of those who are criticizing our culture here KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE OUT HERE, then yes, you may freely judge us.”
I can judge as I see fit. You cannot take that away from me. But keep trying, it just makes you seem more and more of a bigot.
“How do you know that what these people are doing is insane? Can you read their minds?”
I never said it was insane. I can see I’m going to have to keep repeating this as you are an insufferable amnesiac moron.
“What I deem insane is doing things without any beneficial and good purpose.”
And what benefit does nailing someone to a cross have? A false, “placebo-ic” effect on those around the poor child who is bleeding to death and suffocating all in the name of a farcical religious figure? Jesus and God said to “Love Thy Neighbour” not crucify or harm them. I defy you to tell me in the Bible where this act is justified as a method of paying homage to Christ.
“Something that robs people of good conduct, something that will be harmful to OTHER PEOPLE.”
The kid is likely dying slowly on that cross. I’d say that is harmful to the kid.
“This nailing of the cross is a tradition”
And so was tri-panning in Aztec culture but it was deemed “barbaric”. It had the same effects on the Aztecs as your supposed crucifixions do.
“and even if I scream at the top of my lungs at them to stop them, THEY will never listen because this tradition has been going on for years and years.”
You’re absolutely right! This act is completely respectable on the grounds that you alone won’t make a difference. Then I suppose that we should bring back the sacrificing of bulls, goats, and virgins too? Your reasoning is totally illogical.
“The least I can do is RESPECT them.”
Respect is one thing. Admitting something is an atrocity and harmful is another.
“If you’re calling me a bigot, YOU are the biggest hypocrite I have ever known. You claim to know about religion and spirituality and what did it taught you exactly?”
It taught me to have an open mind but still keep faithful to MY values. I was brought up Lutheran and I actually RESPECT and VALUE human life. It is obvious that those carrying out these heinous acts do not feel the same way or they wouldn’t bring harm upon an innocent child’s body.
“To disrespect other people’s culture and call them insane because it is not “right” in your eyes?”
Me. Did not. Call them. Insane. :grunts like an ape: Hopefully you’ll understand that this time since that seems to be the level I have to lower myself to, to properly get the damn message across.
“If there are insane acts, these are the following: raping, sodomizing, cannibalism, eating fetuses, abortion, treating cockroaches as jewelry, using condoms as brooches on clothes, drowning yourself and letting the whole world see it on tv just so you can prove to yourself that you can do magic or something, drinking blood from wild animals, pedophilia, killing people and cutting up their bones and putting it inside the fridge – THESE are crazy acts. Acts that were done for pleasure, and human satisfaction.”
And this act of crucifixion is done to bring “spiritual pleasure’ to those performing it. It’s no different than what you have called “insane” or “horrendous”. It’s a disgusting double standard that YOU excuse on the grounds that it is “religious”. Well in that case, I can make up a religion endorsing rape, sodomy, beastiality, and more and it will all be ok because it’s all for religious purposes. This is your logic whether you admit it or not. It’s flawed, misguided, and utterly absurd.
“The nailing of the cross was NOT for human satisfaction. It was an act for Jesus”
Jesus died on the cross so that man would never have to endure that suffering again. What they are doing is contradicting EVERYTHING Jesus taught. It’s not even a proper religious ceremony! It’s blasphemy in the eyes of Christianity!
“- for grief, for the Holy Week and no matter if it is misguided, at least these people don’t eat fetuses or rape kids.”
Well then ok! If I fuck a cow, it isn’t fetus eating or child rape either so it MUST be ok! I can excuse just about anything using that messed up logic.
“Right. (sarcasm) So, being respectful to other people is insensitive and self-righteous?”
No, you are not respectful to those with opposing opinions of your own. You are disrespectful to everyone who opposes the needless destruction of a human body in the name of religion. I am willing to bet you’d defend the Crusades on the grounds that it was for the benefit of Christianity!
“Think again, mr.hotshot because I happen to LOVE people and cultures.”
As do I, but I do not accept or appreciate the wonton degradation of a religion or the destruction of a human life in such a horrid and disrespectful manner.
“I have penpals from all over the world and no matter how weird they are and even if I don’t understand their land, their people and their behavior, I do not disrespect them by calling them insane.”
Again, again, and bloody again, I have never called them insane. Why are you stuck in this never-ending loop of moronicy? I don’t care who you are friends with, this doesn’t exonarate those who willingly endangered a human’s life in the name of religion. It doesn’t make things right and it damn sure doesn’t explain your position. It’s the equivalent to the “Oh, I’m not racist. I have black friends.” No one cares.
“You are the one who lacks understanding. By calling me a bigot, self-righteous and insensitive, HA! I can just LAUGH at that!”
You provide NO explanation as to how or why I lack understanding. You make sweeping statements based off nothing but illogical statements, fallacious arguments, and a childish attitude.
“I even rescue kittens in garbage dumps and I have been to really odorous places where a lot of homeless people live. I’ve seen a LOT of dirty things in this world”
So what? There are people out there who dedicate their entire LIVES to preserving life and humanity. This doesn’t make you a saint. By posting that, it merely makes you a self-important braggard.
“and do I disrespect them? NO. I don’t understand what they do, why they do it, but at least I’m not some conformist hotshot who automatically makes harsh judgments about a certain culture just because they think it’s “insane” in their eyes.”
This is the umpteenth time you’ve claimed I said something I never said. Honestly, do you even READ the conversations or do you just skim to the juicy parts? I’m a conformist for having an opinion that happens to be shared by other people? Bravo, you have just spit out a completely weak argument that reeks of juvenility. I barely even read anyone else’s opinions on the subject before responding. So now it is you who is making snap judgments my dear little hypocrite. You claim to be loving and respectful but you’ve been anything but this entire time we’ve spoke.
“I don’t NEED to justify and to give reasons about my culture to you.”
Never said you did. Nor would I care if you did. I have my opinion and I am allowed to have it.
“If you can’t RESPECT us – even by just shutting your mouth and just let us be and just LOVE us, then you are NOTHING.”
Nothing says “I Love You” like a good ol’ “Shut the fuck up you meanie!”
“You’re NOT worth it.”
Which is why you posted this essay to me.
“I value respect a lot. I’ve been through hell and back. I’ve been called names, I’ve been teased, my family’s been through hell and I have seen my sister doing things that she ought not to do, but she’s MY SISTER and even if I still get irritated with her like all siblings do, I don’t hate her and I am not angry with her anymore.”
:angst angst teenage angst whine angst: Oh, I’m sorry, you were trying to make a point but it got muddled down in bullshit. My apologies. Try again please.
“If there’s one thing Jesus taught me, is to RESPECT other people even if you don’t understand them at all.”
Yet here you are, failing to practise it here with us.
“He KNOWS everything – He’s the only one who can make critical judgments.”
Yet you’ve judged me numerous times throughout your commments. Hypocritical much?
“He made us all DIFFERENTLY and unless you can accept that, then you have not Christ in you”
Here’s the kicker: I’m not a Christian. :gasp!:
@c_jamaica - Go ahead. Tell me that I have no right to say anything because I’m not a Christian. I dare you.
@slycat_blaze - I agree but never should one compromise their morals and beliefs in the face of another’s. So where does the line get drawn? That’s what makes this issue so frustrating.
@slycat_blaze - I partly agree with you. Yes, we need to respect peoples cultures, but if someone has a “dumb” or “shallow” opinion, I need NOT respect it. To respect opinions of that ilk would dignify them. That would be dangerous.
@Schristian - My friend, it’s painfully obvious that c_jamaica’s grip on reality is slipping as the moments go by. How you put up with her so long is amazing.
@c_jamaica - And to you my dear, I would truly like to thank you for showcasing how religious logic works. You have shown what kind of mental gymnastics it takes to justify the act portrayed above. If I were you I would keep talking! Flounder your stupidity for all to see!
this turns my stomach!
For
@Schristian and
@GodAintGood :
I don’t think respecting other people’s opinions compromise your morals and beliefs unless you let them. Respecting other people’s opinions does not exactly mean you agree with them. It is more of recognizing what they believe in and that they believe in it, regardless of whether you agree to them or not, and not to go as far as insulting them if they are wrong. If you think they’re opinion is stupid, then don’t agree with them and tell them why. But that doesn’t mean putting yourself above them in any way, consciously or not. It doesn’t mean dignifying them, it only means that you don’t step on them either.
Respect also entails courtesy, even in the face of a disagreement.
People won’t change unless they see for themselves that they are wrong. Just like my fellow Filipinos who show their devotion to God by doing that. It is within cultural context that they do this practice, and the Church hasn’t really stopped them either. Here in our country, where the majority strives hard for them to be able to eat three times a day and has barely even finished primary education, this is their way of showing their devotion. You must remember that this is a poor country, and that all those charity acts that you mentioned… they are the ones who should be on the receiving end of them. They are constantly hungry, constantly tired, and they are weary in all aspects, especially in working under the scorching heat of the sun. But you gotta give it to them, for them to still love Him in such a way that they are willing to give a part of themselves for Him. I am not saying what they are doing is wrong. But you also have to consider how strong they are spiritually, still believing in Him even through the midst of hardships. If you have never experienced seeing such suffering, then maybe it will be hard for you to comprehend just how hard it is here in our country.
So labeling it as insanity may be a little too much.
They simply lack education. And in their situation, it is something beyond reach. It’s just that they know they could do this to show to Him and to everyone just how much they love Him once a year.
I hope some people would be able to understand this side of their story.
@slycat_blaze - Now that’s a well written explanation. Thank you. You have some incredibly insightful points.
@Schristian - I am very happy that someone here appreciated that post. Honestly it made me sad that so many people here look at this practice with so much disgust that some even say that this is downright idiocy. I understand how people outside the country feels outraged with such a practice, but I hope they also open their minds and understand their reasons for doing so and that they respect my fellow men’s reasons and their deep devotion for Christ.
@slycat_blaze - indeed, well written and insightful. It’s that cultural barrier which makes some things taboo here but not there.
@GodAintGood -
“My friend, it’s painfully obvious that c_jamaica’s grip on reality is slipping as the moments go by. How you put up with her so long is amazing.”
My friend, it is painfully obvious that those of you who claim they are Christians are really out of their minds.
All I ever wanted to point out was RESPECT.
ALL of you go back to kindergarten if you STILL don’t understand me.
@Schristian -
“Right, so if I raped a child as an offering to Jesus, that would be anything but insane, which is something I never called the nailing of the child to the cross. You’re really thick aren’t you?”
Fact is, Mr. Schristian, you are just making up stories along the way. Did I say a child is raped and then offered to Jesus? NO. What I was talking about was THAT picture above that implies that a 15 year old boy was nailed to the cross for Jesus. That’s it.
You’re just trying to make yourself sound foolish by adding stories like rape and what not. Right! (sarcasm) Maybe you’re the one who is insane since you obviously CAN’T stick to ONE story!
“You didn’t. I never said you did, however, I used your logic to create a situation in which a horrific act of violence is depicted as ok because it has a purpose. Re-read what you said carefully.”
I don’t need to reread anything. We are talking about ONE topic, depicted in the picture above. Don’t try to twist matters off just so you could sound logical, but indeed, you just make yourself sound infinitely foolish…and DRUNK. Drunk people tend to raise different topics all at once and sew them all together as part of one topic.
“No, the topic here is NOT a Christian act as nothing in the Bible says that in rememberance of Jesus should we nail innocent children to crosses, self-flaggelate, or otherwise harm, mutilate, or inflict injury upon another living thing in the name of God or Jesus.”
Yes, true. There’s nothing in the Bible that says that. However, Jesus did teach us to respect others, didn’t He? So, QUIT BUGGING ME AND JUST RESPECT THE CULTURE OF MY PEOPLE!
Is that too hard to do?
Or maybe you’re just soooooooooooooooo dumb that even the word “respect” can’t penetrate your head?
“:grunts like an ape: Hopefully you’ll understand that this time since that seems to be the level I have to lower myself to, to properly get the damn message across.”
I’m not an ape…but since you were grunting like one, then YOU’RE an ape.
“Here’s the kicker: I’m not a Christian. :gasp!:”
Here’s the kicker: You’re not a Christian, so WHY are you even bothering about this post?
You just want a juicy gossip, that’s WHAT YOU ARE. If you’re not a Christian, then GET OFF OUR BACKS! Twiddle your thumbs and do something else – like eat the lies from your hair! That’s what apes do.
I didn’t read ALL of what you said. I don’t need to. The least I could do to myself is to ignore an ignoramus like you, who isn’t even a Christian and yet tackles Christians.
@c_jamaica - Thank you for proving me right once again. You’ve avoided EVERY point I made, came up with silly and illogical arguments and statements, and proved your inadequacy both as a supposed “Loving Christian” and as a respectable person. I wasn’t bringing up any new topics in any form. What you claim is that if something is done to honour Jesus, it doesn’t matter WHAT it is as long as it is done in reverence of Jesus. THEREFORE, I can rape a child and claim it was done in reverence of Jesus and by YOUR twisted logic, it would be deemed acceptable. I know this is a tough concept for you to grasp but try to use your head this time around.
ANd I knew fully well you’d bash me for not being a Christian. You’re a complete bigot and ignorant. BEcause I’m not a Christian or a Filipino, I’m not allowed to comment on global issues? I’m FORBIDDEN to speak on topics that upset me just because I don’t share your same lifestyle choices or religious beliefs? You madam are a disgusting example of the type of Christian NO ONE wants to be around. You condemn everyone else who is different than you and attempt to silence them because of their differences THEN CLAIM that you love and respect everyone. You’re a liar, a fraud and a disgrace of a Christian.
Talking to you has been the equivalent to talking to a child with severe Down Syndrome with hints of Alzheimers. You’re illogical, fanatical, hypocritical, insensitve, and utterly ignorant to anyone but those of your own kind. This, my child, is the TRUEST perversion of humanity AND Christianity. Thank you.
@Schristian -
“Thank you for proving me right once again. You’ve avoided EVERY point I made, came up with silly and illogical arguments and statements, and proved your inadequacy both as a supposed “Loving Christian” and as a respectable person.”
Nah. I am not silly nor ignorant. You don’t even know me well enough. You based all of your arguments on YOUR FEELINGS rather than facts. If you’ve read my xanga blog, you’ll know that I am a very respectable person.
But it’s okay. I know you never have time to read, you don’t even have time to understand the Filipino culture by the sole fact that you called it “insane” without even knowing why those people did it.
“THEREFORE, I can rape a child and claim it was done in reverence of Jesus and by YOUR twisted logic”
Nope. Only by YOUR OWN twisted logic. Whoever said you could rape a child and offer it to Jesus? Nobody. Only YOU said so.
“I’m not a Christian or a Filipino, I’m not allowed to comment on global issues?”
You have the right, but you don’t have the right to do so if you don’t know the FACTS.
“This, my child, is the TRUEST perversion of humanity AND Christianity. Thank you.”
If there is someone who is acting childish here, it’s YOU.
@GodAintGood - Thank you very much.
I felt as if I was preaching, which I did not like one bit. At least I made some people understand with that post. Thank you. ^_^
@c_jamaica - ”Nah. I am not silly nor ignorant. You don’t even know me well enough. You based all of your arguments on YOUR FEELINGS rather than facts. If you’ve read my xanga blog, you’ll know that I am a very respectable person.”
Incorrect. The way you speak and your lack of respect for my right to speak freely says otherwise. As for your blog, that’s not the issue here. You claim to “love and respect EVERYONE” yet you’ve shown me everything BUT love and respect. You contradict yourself when it’s convenient for you.
“But it’s okay. I know you never have time to read”
Wait a minute. Didn’t you just accuse me of : “You don’t even know me well enough. You based all of your arguments on YOUR FEELINGS rather than facts.” and then you make the claim I don’t have time to read? On what grounds are you basing this fallacious opinion? Here’s another prime example of your hypocrisy and ignorance.
“Nope. Only by YOUR OWN twisted logic. Whoever said you could rape a child and offer it to Jesus? Nobody. Only YOU said so.”
Ok, here’s your logic:
“Because the act of nailing a child to the cross is done out of reverence of Jesus, it is acceptable and shouldn’t be marked as ‘insane’, ‘misguided’, or ‘stupid’.” This is based on your arguments FOR the act in question. THEREFORE, it is to say then that if any act is done in reverence of Jesus then it is acceptable and should be treated as such. To further my argument, I will use MORE of your logic:
“The Filipino culture takes this act as a part of it’s traditions, therefore it is acceptable and should be treated as such.”
So, if rape is a cultural tradition, by YOUR logic (as assumed from arguments you set forth) then it is an acceptable act.
“You have the right, but you don’t have the right to do so if you don’t know the FACTS.”
You are completely wrong. No matter whether I understand or know of any “facts” I still have the right to speak my mind, though by doing so would showcase ignorance on my part. I am fully aware that this is a tradition of the Filipino people but I still maintain that the act is misguided and immoral and goes against the basic principles of the Bible.
@c_jamaica - ”And I sure as hell am tired of debating in here.”
If you are tired, then why don’t you relax and cease making other people’s opinions a big deal? If anything, we should argue about the more important things like violence, poverty, and even the future of children. I think that this topic is more of opinion-based rather than proven information. Thus we should not call people names and judge them by their words and how they feel (for example: “You’re NOT worth it,”ignoramus,” and the recent “If there is someone who is acting childish here, it’s YOU.”). Opinions do not make a person unworthy, ignoramus, and childish. So please, and I’m asking politely, just because their opinions are different than yours does not mean you can put them down by calling them unneccesary names.
insanity
@Schristian -
I just want to say I’m sorry.
I really don’t want to argue anymore.
Can we start over? Can we be friends?
I’d love to, if you’re okay with it.
I love you and I’m sorry about all this.
-Jam
@c_jamaica - Well now I’m incensed at your little comment on my Xanga. As of now, the answer is of course no. Not until you learn how to be respectful YOURSELF. Then we can consider the alternative.
Well, if thats how they think appreciation to Jesus is, then it’s their decision. But I don’t think Jesus would want anyone to go through what he did just to make sure we live today.
grotesque. what is wrong with these fanatics?
@Schrist
@Schristian -
ian
-“If you EVER expect to be respected, you’ll watch what you say.”
Don’t you think you are just echoing yourself?
Who in the world started this argument? YOU started it by calling the referred act as insane. If you EVER expect to be respected, you’ll watch what you say. But yeah…I forgot. You’re not a Christian, so I will just TOLERATE the FACT that RESPECT isn’t in your vocabulary.
“You’re disrespectful and a complete hypocrite.”
No, you’re disrespectful and a complete MORON and EVEN MORE disrespectful by POSTING in your xanga about me. Who’s disrespectful now?
“Stay off my site if you’re going to spout such bullshit. If you wanted respect you should have been respectful. You weren’t so deal with it.”
Hahahaha! I find this soooo funny, I cannot stop laughing! So, you are WARNING me to stay off your website, but you are posting about ME in your xanga? How completely twisted you are, my man. Completely twisted.
“Not until you learn how to be respectful YOURSELF. Then we can consider the alternative.”
I am open to friendship with ALL people. However, you are trying to squash me like a bug by saying things about me that are utterly UNTRUE, such as being respectful of myself.
I am respectful of myself. I respect the FACT that even if you are a complete idiot, I don’t POST ABOUT YOU in my xanga blog because I respect you and I respect MYSELF and the people who read my xanga.
@TANGENA -
@TANGENA -
“If anything, we should argue about the more important things like violence, poverty, and even the future of children.”
We SHOULD argue about that? No. I don’t think so. Violence, poverty and the future of children don’t need arguing. It NEEDS ACTION.
If anything, I think you should LISTEN TO ME for a change instead of trying to side opinions with people who are not even Christians.
This act referred in this blog post is from MY culture, MY country and I am HERE as a representative, stating FACTS about this act, as what you have all read (or not read) in my comments.
I don’t NEED your analyzation on HOW I reply to comments.
What I need from you is respect for other people’s culture and respect for fellow Christians.
Or are you not a Christian?
Another thing. Didn’t Jesus told us to be tolerant of each other’s flaws? Some Filipinos (as I have explained for like, a millionth time) do not know the full concept of Christianity, so instead of bashing them, try to UNDERSTAND THEM.
Not all Filipinos are geniuses, you know.
“So please, and I’m asking politely, just because their opinions are different than yours does not mean you can put them down by calling them unneccesary names.”
Just because MY opinion is different too, doesn’t mean WHAT you and the rest of Dan’s fans are saying are TRUE.
I didn’t put them down. You and the rest of them, especially SChristian, ARE the ones trying to bash me and my people and especially the culture of the Philippines.
I am both Christian AND from the Philippines. In fact, I’m going there this summer. I still think it’s too extreme, but hey, however people want to celebrate their faith. I guess it doesn’t hurt anyone else…
INSANITY. OMG.
insanity…do they do this every year???
Its insanity when one individual does something seemingly unacceptable… Its a cult when a couple people who do something seemingly unacceptable… Its a religion when an entire culture does something unacceptable.
One would be wise to throughly analyze their own religious practices before they go scoffing at others.
I’m filipino, and wow thats very intesting haha. I’m pretty much white-washed though so I wouldn’t really be familiar if thats normal or not. But i’d say…insanity?
Hey, at least now they fully understand the pain and sacrifice of Jesus. It’s one thing to talk about it; it’s another to relive it.
You can ask my bf.
Flips are insane.
>.<
XIN
That is disgusting and utterly insane! The whole reason Jesus died on the cross was so that he could suffer in our place. That is such a contradiction and I do not believe God was happy about that at all…
It is an act of Majik…assuming an archetypal form.
Its sick. Its just fanatical. And rather barbaric.
Ugh. Just looking at the pictures of the nails in the hands of these young guys, sends me chills.
They are not Jesus.
Dear Dan: This is nothing less than the torturous abuse of a minor in a blasphemous recreation of Jesus’ travail. Self-abuse as a perceived act of faith is bad enough. Leading the young to inflict it on themselves like that is criminal. That’s only one step away from the radical Moslems who train children to blow themselves up in an act of “martyrdom”. As for those adults who conceived and executed this, one can only recall Jesus’ own words on the Cross. “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.”
yah accha hai.
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!? Jesus did it becuase he’s God. Regular people cannot do what he did.
Insanity pure and simple.