June 18, 2008
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Gay Bishop
The Lutheran Church in Germany is considering electing their first gay bishop.
(This is not the gay bishop. He is just a google bishop).
A senior cleric is being considered for an opening at the post of bishop. There is some concern that it will alienate some Christians. Here is the link: Link
Do you think a gay person should be allowed to become a bishop?
Comments (174)
I think they should allow google bishops.
Google bishop looks gay anyway.
It was a lousy joke, but I was first, so it all balances out.
Oh my.
just keep him away from little boys
Sure why not?
I’m gonna say….. no. =/
@fullmetalbunny - I second that! xD
googly-gay bishops..
Since the bible speaks of homosexuality as a sin, it doesn’t make much sense. It would be hard to see this bishop preach that it’s a sin. He would have to ignore those verses from the bible.
@dragonwiccagirl - because all gays are pedophiles too, right?
We all end up just focusing on your google bishop now. lol
I personally don’t have a problem with homosexuality, but as for the church….no comment…
According to the church, gay is just as bad a sin as lying, stealing, and killing. It’s impossible for anybody not to sin.
Big freakin deal
I agree with LSP1
doesn’t he still have to be celibate anyway? so what does it matter.
@dragonwiccagirl - Too harsh. You’ve automatically assumed that because he’s gay he’s also a paedophile. So a straight Bishop should also be kept away from little girls?
I think anyone called to the church should be able to serve. Their sexuality shouldn’t be an issue, their gender shouldn’t be an issue, their race shouldn’t be an issue.
i totally have no problem with there being a gay bishop in the lutheran church… what is the big deal anyway – how is being gay going to affect his ability to be a spiritual leader… i’m really tired of having to argue this point – people need to learn to live and let live and quit thinking being gay is a bad thing…
Why not. It’s not like he will destroy Christianity from the inside or anything, he’s not a double agent for the devil. He is a loyal Christian with so much love for God that he wants to devote his life to Him. Why not?
Uh, I would have to say no.
No. What kind of example is he setting if he do get to be their bishop? He just be a hypocrite to what he is teaching in the bible.
Well, this is a toughie, because while I personally don’t have a problem with human people simply because of their sexual preference….I DO have a problem with people who openly disregard Biblical law to be placed in a position of authority in a house of God. Ditto “Gay Marriage”…I think two partners should be able to have legal documents drawn up, even have a ceremony performed, bonding them together……but God should not be involved in any way.
Am I making any sense? It’s late, I’m tired, I’m a Christian and I have several friends and family members who are gay. Like I said, this is a toughie.
You know what just makes me all the more confused? The whole purpose of religion is to promote love, harmony, toloance and acceptance. When it comes to the gay issue, religion seems to forget those corner stones and revert to fear, suspicion, loathing and hate.
Is the package really important for what the soul is, and its capacity to love both emotionally and sexually?
Google bishop. Haha…
Um NO. Thats not alright. Has he even cracked his Bible open?? Checked out Romans chapter one, maybe?? Wow. This sickens me that there is even a question about whether or not he should be a bishop. Or even a minister.
Guys being pedophiles never stopped the Catholic Church from anything so why not?
I don’t know… Everybody has their own sins they have to deal with [like being gay is his] but I think you should do your best to realize and try and fix your sins before you hold a leadership position in a church. If you didn’t, then it’ll be hypocritical of you to be preaching something, but doing the opposite. I’m going to say no. A gay bishop would be bad if they haven’t started dealing wiht their sin and have just accepted it, just as an alcoholic bishop would be bad if they drank every night until they were totally trashed, but thought that was ok.
no of course not.
by allowing a gay bishop.. isn’t it also allowing homosexuality? which is not the case for christians and catholics.
@LSP1 - @xXLovelyDreamerXx -
But everyone sins, and Christians still preach about those.
Why do you think a gay person should not be allowed to become a bishop?
@dragonwiccagirl - ”just keep him away from little boys”
And the straight bishops from the little girls.
@latte_grande - You made sense and I agree with you.
gahhhh the bible has spawned the worlds biggest book clubs. if he can’t be a gay bishop in the christian church, he should just do what the mormons did and start his own religion based only on the parts of the bible he believes in. I was reading an interesting article written by a gay Christian Reverend who earned his masters and doctoral degrees through a biblical seminary. It is not fanatical in the opposite direction of throwing homosexuality back at the conservative people of that same faith. It was actually interesting and touching to read, if you’re interested. http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
Some quoted scripture that the bible ALSO says:
<li>DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
<li>DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
<li>MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
<li>LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
<li>MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
<li>DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
Do you think a gay person should be allowed to become a bishop?
No. The offense is that he’s gay, but that he actually wants to become a bishop.
@dragonwiccagirl - Ummm…that would be a pedophile Bishop not a Gay one!
My personal feelings are that orientation should not be a part of the decision making.
Michael
@StrongLetterI - I believe the joke was probably in reference to the Catholic Church having problems with the priests and child molestation.
hah, I like that term, “google Bishop” lol.
@EarthsAzureLight - It’s hard to define it like that though. Everyone sins, but usually not as a lifestyle choice.
Personaly I say no to it. If you were to read Leviticus 18:22 then you would see that the bible has a negative tone towards it. And sence the goal of a religious leader is to spread the word of God this might be difficult for him to do as some people might not take him seriously.
That would be awesome. I’ll have to tell my parents… makes me proud to be (or at least have been) a Lutheran.
(Unlike the Catholic church, I don’t think the Lutheran church has a specific standing on homosexuality. I don’t ever remember our pastor preaching on the subject, other than to love people and accept them as Jesus did.)
@Reality_vs_Ideality - Amen.
The Bible says a lot of things that we don’t obey anymore b/c we realize they’re ridiculous in this day and age (how many women do you know who go into hiding for the week of their period b/c they are not allowed to be touched yby others b/c they are “unclean?”). Why we hold onto this one thing, I don’t know.
As long as he can make coffee. Lutherans love their coffee.
It would raise a lot of controversy either way
discrimination vs hypocrisy
I don’t think it would be a very good image
for the church if they did, so to avoid
the least amount of damage possible, I’d say no
Honestly, individuals who are anti-homosexual because of the bible need to SUCK IT. I am fairly certain you don’t speak the language the bible was initially written in, therefore there is no way any of the “Christians” of today have any real leverage to speak with. Think about it morons, Jesus was about love, tolerance, kindness, etc. The church of today and the actual teachings of Jesus Christ are like night and day. At least thats what JC told me the other night… “the church has it twisted j-dawg. they are destroying everything i once lived for!” True story…
Of course. And he is probably not the first, just the first known.
Being Gay does not mean that the guys gonna turn homo and touch every little boy he sees.
Obviously, by being a bishop, he’s been chosen by God to do something well for the Church. You know?
Maybe, being gay goes against the bible, and goes against Christianity,
but God made all people for a reason. Questions like these may act to simply surprise, scare us, and to maybe even jumble our faith a little. Faith wasn’t made to be easy.
As long as we hear the voice of God, and we listen to what he says, we’re acceptable under his eyes. There’s no room for Judgement in Christianity.
So i say, let the guy be bishop!!
@Eternalimplosion - You know, in romans, there is documented evidence that the only reason Peter addressed the men having sex with each other as “unnatural” was because the men having sex were heterosexual, therefore making it against their nature.
But in Leviticus, where it says lying with a man as one does a woman is detestable, it also tells you how to prepare your sacrificial offering and to never eat meat or touch anyone having their period.
Jesus never spoke of homosexuality. Not Once.
As a proud lesbian and as a member of the Episcopal Church, who has already put a gay bishop in place, I welcome this Lutheran gay Bishop!!
are you serious.
this isn’t an argument for or against gays. this is about the CHURCH electing a gay bishop — about the church and the foundation on which it stands, God’s word. If they are getting rid of the foundation, why not just elect anyone with worldly leadership skills to lead? Do they lack common sense – a leader is not just someone who can shout about on what people should do, a leader must exemplify and if he can’t live up the the Bible and even openly boasts about it, then really, he should not be a church leader. The Church needs to stop c-o-m-p-r-o-m-i-s-i-n-g or else it is no different from any other humanitarian organization.
Sigh, I read my comment and I sound quite bitter. But really I’m not. I have friends who are gay and I love them. But considering what the typical Christian stance on gays are, this event will surely be a stumbling block for many within the church.
then, is any person who touches a woman while she’s having her period “not living up to the Bible”? because it says that in there, too. and also, it says that we should be making sacrifices.
God’s Word is about LOVE- his first two commandments were very alike, telling man to have no other God before Him and also to love one another as we love ourselves. is keeping this man from serving the Lord a loving action? i think not.
in fact, in response to any question of people not taking him seriously, i welcome this guy and would love to hear his views. i would be more inclined to go to a gay bishop.
quite honestly i would rather my bishop be celibate if i were catholic… so i guess it would be irrelevant
many priests are gay. so i don’t see there’s a problem with that. they’re not promoting “gay marriage.” people are born to be gay. homosexual is not a choice. but gay-marriage is.
@LSP1 - agreed.
@The_Palantiri - It’s not a lifestyle choice, it’s the way God made them.
google bishop! haha!
@actofgrace4 - Scripture is inspired by God and every little detail is accurate and correct. There is no “the only reason why” The reason why is because God told him to write it that way. If it was only because it was against their heterosexual nature then it would have said that. Also. Men having sex with one another are obviously not heterosexual.
Yes it does mention homosexuality as being detestable in Leviticus, how it relates to sacrificial preparations and menstrual cycles eludes me.
@Don_Cauchi - The whole purpose of religion is to promote love, harmony, tolerance and acceptance.
What religion are you referring to? The bible doesn’t teach tolerance and acceptance in all cases. If that were true, then God would send everybody to heaven and nobody to hell.
@EarthsAzureLight - But everyone sins, and Christians still preach about those.
That’s not the point. It would be like a preacher preaching against adultery while he is continually cheating on his wife. He would be a hypocryte.
@jkeps - Think about it morons, Jesus was about love, tolerance, kindness, etc.
Have you read all of what Jesus taught? Jesus taught twice as much about hell than he did about heaven? He wasn’t very tolerant towards the Pharisees or when he took a whip, kicked over the tables and drove the people out of the temple.
wow. it sickens me how many people still think homosexuality is sin. i don’t care if you read the bible that way, you have to see the context. not only when the bible was written, but also that it’s not a Catholic priest!
I’m german, I’m lutheran, and I don’t care if this man is going to be a bishop or what. We have female pastors, married pastors, why not a gay bishop? as long as he’s good enough for the post, why the hell not?
have you read it? it says GERMANY. we’re different from america. very differen.
the article that’s linked says there’s a center for lesbian and gay pastors. see? he’s not the only one. he’s just one that’s going to be bishop.
what does sexuality have to do with this branch of the christian belief? nothing.
@Eternalimplosion - The reason it relates to Leviticus is because it says that homosexuality is detestable in the same chapter as telling us how to prepare the sacrificial lamb and to never touch a menstruating woman. Now, when is the last time you made a sacrifice or called a woman having her period unclean?
Men wrote the Bible. Men interpreted the Bible. Men translated the Bible. Things have been known the get lost in translation. And while the Bible is the Lord’s book, the Letters that Peter wrote came from his mouth, not something that God directed him to write. He was talking about the Roman issue of pederasty, actually, when he wrote to them (the book we call Romans.) The act of pederasty is when an older male chooses a young male to bring up and be in a co-dependent relationship with. This may or may not be sexual. These older men also had wives, and most were heterosexual. Men, back in the old days of Rome, used to have sex with all sorts of different things, regardless of gender or species to tell the truth. Because Peter observed this pederastic relationship, he knew that while the men already had wives, they should not be sleeping with young boys. THAT is the unnaturality he was speaking of.
I know what I’m talking about, trust me.
@LSP1 - Most major religions are more in line with social intergration and maintaining public order in the face of our ‘animal instincts’. In this case, the bible may not explicitly state things, so everything is open to interpretation. However, the basic premise of the religion are the things that I mentioned, which are contravened all the time.
@Don_Cauchi - However, the basic premise of the religion are the things that I mentioned, which are contravened all the time.
I agree that the bible teaches about love, forgiveness, etc., but why should we choose to only read and believe those verses and ignore the other ones?
@LSP1 - The reason has to do with intent. There are so many verses, and so many interpretations of those verses, that to actually truly understand the bible would take years of historical and academic research, particularly in original language it was translated from (primarily latin). The reason why people select particular verses is that it fulfills and agenda: in the case of banning gay and lesbian couples from rights, they base it on the family unit that has always culturally existed but which, in todays society, is able to be changed due to both communicative elements (such as internet and the social revolutions) and sheer praticality (such as awarding tax and legal benefits to fringe demographics over the last 30 years).
The reasoning behind selecting certian verses is political: it proves a ‘point’ without needing validation.
Wouldn’t that contradict with his religion’s belief? If he were to be a bishop, it would mean that he strictly abides by the beliefs of his religion. He shouldn’t even be a cleric in the first place.
@another_rebel_without_a_cause - Hah. Yes it’s true that all those are sins but some are at worse degrees than others. Would your really be comfortable with a priest who’s killed a man before? Though, it may be hard to stop sin, religious figures especially bishops should do their best to avoid sin no matter how tempting.
Besides, I thought religious figures aren’t allowed to be involved in these kinds of relationships. So why is this man even contemplating about his sexuality?
@The_Palantiri - oh ok. molesting children is always hilarious.
no, i understand that it’s a joke, i just don’t think it was a very tasteful one….
says the girl who just made a joke about child molestation…
No because they should follow the bible.
for those of you who don’t know, only Catholic priests take vows of celibacy in Christianity. other denominations, like Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. all allow marriage and sex.
For all we know, this is only the first “Out” gay bishop. It’s quite possible that there have been many more gay bishops that have preceeded him and we just don’t know about it.
But really, who the heck cares if he’s gay or not?!! God will love him no matter what. And that’s a most beautiful thing.
U would make a nice gay bishop
@EarthsAzureLight - I don’t know, you don’t know, and they don’t know. It’s a matter of belief at this point as nobody has proven anything. I don’t feel that it’s important to me to have a strong stance toward either side of this “debate”.
@StrongLetterI - Lighten up, geez. Just because I said it was a joke didn’t mean that I wrote the joke, or thought the joke was funny or appropriate. It wouldn’t have gotten nearly as much attention if it was comment 160.
yes I do!! If someone feels a calling to GOD, it shouldn’t matter their sexual orientation. The public misconception that all gay’s are sexual deviants pisses me off!!
YES!
sure the bible says that being gay is a sin. it also says that coming in contact with pig skin is a sin. so anyone who has touched a football is a ‘sinner’. It says that we are to not cut our hair on both sides of our hair or trim the edges of our beards. so everyperson who has gotten a hair cut or shaved their beard is a sinner. i could go on. but i won’t. =D
I defiantely see no problem with it. Gay bishop, straight bishop, what does it matter? As long as the bishop isn’t some sort of brain sucking alien, I say let them be a bishop!
Why the hell not?
I guess it’d be a positive step if the church wanted reach out to those in the LGBT community
Well it goes against the Lutheran Church, I think, so it’d be kind of weird, going against what they preach. Not only that, but if this guy ever gets elected or selected or whatever, all the other churches would oppose this, and all hell would erupt…
The Episcopalians did it, so why not the Lutherans?
hmm… Paul pretty strongly told the Roman believers and the church at Corinth that homosexuality is a sin (Granted we all mess up, but their is a difference when the sin is continual and unrepented). And if this bishop believes that the Bible is the Holy Inspired Word of God I don’t know how he can stand upon and preach from a text that states his lifestyle choice is a blatant sin. However, the dude or dudette may not believe in the inherrency of the Word of God, or that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice but something your born with.
@StrongLetterI - only by if his choosing, the Catholic Church is the only denomination that makes their priests be celibate. Priests,pastors, and bishops in other denominations have the choice to marry or not. However, in the Orthodox church if you are unwed before becoming ordained for priesthood you must remain unwed.
Catholicism is gradually becoming it’s own religion, rather than just a Christian denomination, so I can totally see how they would consider ‘electing’ a homo. Ridiculous.
Ok…do Lutherans believe the Bible is inspired and the word of God? If they do then they have to believe sin is wrong…and they have to believe that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin…so someone who is practicing homosexuality shouldn’t be placed in authority….just like someone who is practicing fornication or lying or stealing shouldn’t be. The Bible says they’re all wrong, and people who really believe the Bible should stick with that.
pass by and leave you a comment!
I guess if he’s a practicing homosexual… what the hell am I saying?
As a gay atheist, one side of me wants further progression in equality, while the other side wants to bitch slap that fag and burn a bible.
NO. People forget that this is a sin. I wouldn’t want my pastor to be gay, a killer, a thief, or living with someone out of marriage either. I know people are not perfect, but if they are living in sin without making an effort to change or even to acknowledge that it is sinful……why are they the ones who should guide me in my faith?
Bad Lutherans. Giving me a bad name.
This one is a negative… there are too many reasons not too elect a homosexual as a church leader/minister that I do not iwsh to go into right now.
“This is not the gay bishop. He is just a google bishop”
–
Best clarification ever by the way! ha ha
Totally. Why not?
i always thought a gay bishop was the same as a google bishop !
@obsoleteanomaly - you are very open minded ! lol !
I say let him in, but I’m not Christian, so I don’t know how it would affect the, uh, church-going community.
@LSP1 - So you haven’t ever attended a service lead by someone who eats shellfish or wears synthetic-natural blend fabrics? According to Christianity, everyone sins.
Why not?
I know homosexuality is wrong but he is preaching the word of god nonetheless. Though I will admit that it will probably be very uncomfortable when he is preaching of homosexuality…
<3
@obsoleteanomaly - In theory, the more intolerant religions become, the more they will be revealed as the lying political sinkholes they truly are. As a straight-ally atheist, I understand your dilemma.
It doesn’t make since to me that a Lutheran church would allow a gay cleric into the church…unless they aren’t bible based which doesn’t make since because they are Lutheran which is supposed to be. Confusing!
in all practicality, i don’t think they’ll do it.
prejudice isn’t nice/fair like that.
Why not?
Yes everyone has a sin problem, but unless you are repentant and try to do better, you are acting like it isn’t a sin at all. I see this as hiring someone who has an obvious affair going on in his marriage that he is not repentant of.
Sure why not, a gay person is still is a person to begin with, so why say a gay bishop can’t be a bishop (all people are born with natural rights, and to bar a person from their profession because of their sexual orientation is discrimination, and no religion should teach that or discriminate…) so like I said, why not?
Nope.
absolutely not
@DJ__x - Shouldn’t be uncomfortable with it if you believe in the concept of asking for forgiveness and having everything rectified. But people will always treat some things worse than others.
He could try to keep from homosexual behavior because of his religious convictions, but f he slips up and asks forgiveness then it shouldn’t be a big deal. But it *totally* will be.
@LSP1 - that’s okay, most church leaders do that anyway. when’t the last time you were encouraged to stone your children to death for talking back? (Leviticus, same book that homophobes love to quote)
Instead of just picking out the one little part about gays, how about reading the rest of it, too, for a change?
Especially Leviticus 19:18: ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Is your attitude in line with this? Doesn’t sound like it to me.
Duuude, you’re going to Hell!!
Also to: Everyone else who said “No” to a gay bishop. Hypocrites! If you truly believe God created everything, then gays are also one of his creations, and reviling them earns you a seat in the Hot Place. Adios, and good luck with that.
I don’t think he’d want to put himself in that situation anyways.
I have never had an experience of electing bishops. Furthermore, I’m not part of that church, so I don’t care.
I think the church should do as it wishes, since it’s a private institution. If they don’t want to elect a gay bishop, fine with me. If they do, no problem.
@Don_Cauchi - well said… this is my problem w/ religion and Christianity
Absolutely not.
hell yes!
@D2L_Pastor@revelife - I spoke about Paul’s letter to the Romans and it’s symbolism in a previous comment. did you read it?
(although I think I called Paul, Peter…)
the thing is, while Paul may have spoken about homosexuality, Jesus never did. Jesus never said anything about it in the Bible. in fact, Jesus ate with sinners and spent more time with them than the religious officials of the day, the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees, because he called them “hypocrites.” he asked Peter to be the continuation of his church, even though Peter sinned against Him when he betrayed Him. so, what is the difference? and there are other “out” gay bishops in the church.
… and if you think about it, this same discussion was about women just a bit ago. churches were debating whether or not to allow women to be preachers. what i say is, does it really matter if someone is a woman or a man or gay or straight if they choose to devote their lives to God? i think that shows they are moral people, regardless of who they sleep with.
i am proud of the accomplishments the gay community have made. being a gay woman myself, a gay bishop would say a lot i would relate to.
Sure, why not.
sure, as long as he’s not practicing homosexuality. that temptation and tendency came about as the result of adam and eve’s sin, same as lust did.
There’s a big difference between a practicing homosexual and one who is attracted to the same gender. If he is merely struggling with the temptation, but doesn’t act on it, he needs help with that, but he’s not sinning. But if he sees no wrong in this lifestyle, then he is in no position to lead others to righteousness.
And I would hold the same standard for a man who was unfaithful to wife or whatever sexual sin. The Bible deals with sexual sins more seriously than others, especially if it is public.
Christianity is not about tolerance, it’s about truth, for the record.
Also, I’d like to say, as a Christian, I am ashamed of the way that other believers treat homosexuals. We’re not loving them like we should, and that’s terrible. We’re hypocrites, and for that I’m sorry.
I see no reason why not. I just don’t think the particular church should be forced to make one a Bishop.
By outside forces like a government I mean.
Not a practicing homosexual, no. Have they not read what the Bible has to say about that?
Wow, something might actually bring the church into this century.
Honestly, who gives a rat’s ass?
Doesn’t he have to be celibate to be a catholic priest anyway?
Ahh, he’s not catholic. He’s lutheran. I don’t know where their celibacy standards are set. My Appologies.
@vwagenjetta - lutheran. not catholic. read it before you reply. plus, its in germany.
I don’t see a problem with a gay bishop, but then again, it doesn’t affect me at all.
There already is one.
Gene Robinson, an Episcopal bishop in New Hampshire.
Everyone is a sinner. There are no ‘big’ or ‘little’ sins. Sins are anything that separate us from God, and the punishment for sin is death.
But God loves his children. All his children. Race, color, gender, sexual orientation, even religion notwithstanding.
@captain_jaq - I’m fairly sure that Lutherans, like Episcopalians, allow men to be married and have sex. Just like they allow -gasp!!- women to be priests, bishops, and deacons as well.
Men and women God created them, men and women we ordain them. ;D
@CanadianBroad - Don’t tell them that, logic doesn’t makes sense to fundamentalists.
@GodArt - It’s not a lifestyle, its how God made him. That’s like saying being straight is a lifestyle choice.
@vwagenjetta - The Lutheran Church in Germany
He’s not Catholic
@weirdbean - God made him this way, what choice does he have?
@The_Palantiri - Actually, they do know – If people would stop ignoring the evidence such as…
The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-gaybrain17-2008jun17,0,888962.story
ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5176866&page=1
Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1026992/Women-share-emotional-brain-traits-homosexual-men.html
US News:
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/06/16/gay-men-straight-women-have-similar-brains.html
There are more. It’s not a lifestyle choice.
Just google this topic, you’ll find all sorts of biological and psychological evidence to this.
@EarthsAzureLight - Heh, you know, I don’t really care. I’m not a politician, and I only cast one vote every 4 years, so I don’t really care to be informed on the biology behind sexual orientation. However this reminded me of you: http://www.xkcd.com/386/
@The_Palantiri - That comic always reminds me of me. But point is, it isn’t a choice, so the statements you made about it are false.
@LSP1 - Preachers preach against many things they do, lying (bearing false witness), feeling lust, and many others, doesn’t mean they can’t preach against it.
@EarthsAzureLight - I don’t think God made people that way; it seems like being gay has more to do with the way people are raised and the influences they’ve had in their lives. Like if a guy has a distant father or a girl identifies more with her father than her mother, or they are sexually abused. There are so many root causes to why people feel attraction toward the same sex, but I don’t think they’re born with it.
And I don’t think people necessarily mean to feel same-sex attraction; in fact, I think it is often unwanted. Also, if it is something people are born with, why is it that some walk away from practicing homosexuality? I have a dear friend who was a practicing lesbian, but she came out of it by choice. She probably struggles with it at times, but she definitely changed.
So, it is a complex issue, and I think some people do have more tendencies toward homosexuality, but it doesn’t start at birth.
@GodArt - Read the links I posted above. The brains of straight women and gay men are physically strikingly similar.
It DOES start at birth.
@GodArt - Actually, I’ll make it easy for you
No – because it does contradict what the church tends to believe. If you said the United Church, I’d say yes. I don’t think being gay is wrong, so I’d say yes to a gay bishop…but I don’t know if that would be contradictory for a church to do that or not…and oh my, I’m doing a terrible job explaining my thoughts here.
@EarthsAzureLight - I don’t want to keep throwing around “proof,” but I stumbled across this article:
http://www.dalailama.com/news.112.htm
It’s about how thought and behavior can change the brain structure itself. Now, applied to homosexuality, I wonder if these brain patterns happened when they began to practice homosexuality or when they realized they had same-sex attractions, or if it was before that. I have no way to absolutely prove either your hypothesis or mine, but it’s just a thought.
It would also be interesting to scan infants’ brains, then scan them later in life to see if they show the same brain patterns as before in light of their sexual orientation.
@EarthsAzureLight - Right. My bad.
@LisiliLostRedemption - Right. My bad. Plus, I did read it.
Yes.
@GodArt - ”The latest study,
led by Dr. Ivanka Savic of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, was
significant in that it looked at areas of the brain that have nothing
to do with sexual behavior, suggesting that there was a basic
biological link between sexual orientation and a range of brain
functions.”
The experiences of being gay couldn’t change the areas in question. Even if it was changed.
Um, no, not if the guy thinks homosexuality is all right. Then he’d be teaching things contrary to the Bible, and what would the point of that be?
@EarthsAzureLight - I said some people do have tendencies toward homosexuality, and while environment does shape them, it may also be a matter of being more effeminate if you are male or more masculine if you a female. And sure, that happens early on in life, but imagine if girls who were confused about their sexual identity had female role models who could help them discover what true femininity meant, instead of people telling them that because they’re “wired” differently, they must be gay and should act on it. Some women have more manly tendencies, and that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean they’re gay.
Like I said, it’s a choice to act on it, but not a necessarily a choice to feel the attraction, regardless of what the brain pattern studies show.
that is the head bishop of the ELCA. and he’s an awesome guy. and germany has long forgotten that the man who started the reformation. I’m all for gay rights, but the lutheran church definently isn’t there yet.
signeda confused lutheran
Ahh well I can’t really say properly being not a Christian…
I think it would be fair… we should all have equal rights in my opinion.
However, the Bible is strictly against homosexuality, so despite my own opinions I think that because of the whole religion thing, the answer is no =/
@CanadianBroad - Instead of just picking out the one little part about gays, how about reading the rest of it, too, for a change?
You need to study the difference between the
Old and New Testaments. Why do you think it is New? Because it replaces
the Old. The Old was used to lead us to Jesus. Once Jesus came, there
was no more need for the Old. There is also a difference between the
moral laws and ceremonial laws.
Also to: Everyoneelse who said “No” to a gay bishop.
Hypocrites! If you truly believe God created everything, then gays are
also one of his creations, and reviling them earns you a seat in the
Hot Place. Adios, and good luck with that.
What a poor argument. According to that logic, God also created child molesters, so we shouldn’t revile them. God created us with freewill. We choose to sin.
@la_faerie_joyeuse - So you haven’t ever attended a service lead
by someone who eats shellfish or wears synthetic-natural blend
fabrics? According to Christianity, everyone sins.
You need to study the difference between the Old and New Testaments. Why do you think it is New? Because it replaces the Old. The Old was used to lead us to Jesus. Once Jesus came, there was no more need for the Old. There is also a difference between the moral laws and ceremonial laws.
@EarthsAzureLight - Preachers preach against many things they
do, lying (bearing false witness), feeling lust, and many others,
doesn’t mean they can’t preach against it.
There’s a difference between preaching against it and continually committing the same sin without repenting. Is this gay bishop going to preach that homosexuality is a sin and is he going to repent of it?
@LSP1 - well said.
@GodArt - Thanks.
@EarthsAzureLight - Ahhhh…..I don’t believe that it is an act of nature to seek out the sex with which there is no future for procreating. It’s a choice.
@weirdbean - It is in homosexuals, read the links I’ve posted in this thread.
Yes I do.
@LSP1 - If we don’t have to follow the laws of the OT, then homosexuality isn’t really so bad anymore. Eating shellfish is called an ”abomination” just a line away from homosexuality. And excuse me if I missed it, but I didn’t notice Jesus saying that homosexuals should be discriminated against.
What’s the real distinction between ceremonial and moral law, if they’re both forbidden in the same paragraph?
@la_faerie_joyeuse - If we don’t have to follow the laws of the OT, then homosexuality isn’t really so bad anymore.
You obviously aren’t familiar with the New Testament. It also says it’s a sin. I don’t know what an “abo” is. Do you mean abomination? I’m not going to do a bible study on the moral and ceremonial laws. If you’re that interested, you can easily find more info on the internet. In the New Testament it says we can eat anything.
Wait, like, “dude, this bishop’s so gay! Man, he sucks!”
Or like, “dude, this bishop’s so gay! He sucks men!”
Damn, I’m clever.
@LSP1 - Xanga cut off my word – I typed “abomination” then plenty of other stuff that it just didn’t want to post, apparently. Apologies.
@The_Palantiri - for some reason i think it’s amusing that you are telling me to lighten up.
probably because my comment was a joke.
I don’t think someone’s sexuality would affect their ability to act as a bishop. There have been several cases of bishops and priests who turned out to be sex offenders. Sexuality has nothing to do with character.
@la_faerie_joyeuse - No problem.
@StrongLetterI - Sorry, text-based sarcasm is not easily conveyed.
@ihaveanalibi - yay! Well said.
Can we say “Oxymoronic?” I’m not gonna project my opinions but COME ON! They themselves preach against homosexuality!
if that’s not contradicting, i dont know what is.
Why not? I have nothing against gays.
I have no opinion on this issue.In my opinion,it isn’t matter if the bishop is a gay, because it is not our bussines but himself. And we will not be affect by him too, he still can be a good bishop…>w<
I am not a religious person or catholic or any of the sort, but I know that the bible condemns it clearly,”men that sleep with men”, so unless they want to switch to the gay version of the bible made up by Rosie O’Donnell, Elton John, Ellen Degeneres and Michael Jackson, they definitely absolutely cannot have a gay bishop.
If he were truly celebate, I would have no problem with it.
But alienating Christians is a genuine concern in Germany and most of western Europe; the churches there can’t really afford to lose more people.
This poor guy in the picture. I’ll bet if you google “gay bishop” and look at the pictures, you now see his photo….
Hell yes! It’ll help create more tolerance within the church.
No … thats just retarted! I have ntohing agains gay people, but thats not the church way… so why would .. idk… w/e lol
If it had nothing to do with his ability to perform his job, I’d say “who even cares?” But if he is trying to be a bishop of a denomination that is against homosexuality, I think he needs to accept that he is applying for the wrong position. There are plenty others out there who would accept him to lead their church.
Personally, I say he should pursue his dreams, wherever they may lead.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – Our rights as Americans (yes, I realize he’s in Germany).
@Don_Cauchi - religion is all those things that you mention and more. but religion is not sodomy, adultery, thievery, and certainly hate. God loves everyone because they are his creation. God does not love the sin that is in them. homosexuality is one of the many sins. a gay bishop? how he is going to promote a traditional family? how is he going to condemn homosexuality? how? God did not make us to lie with the same sex. just look at our anatomy.
You know I’m a sound yes on this.
Google bishop… interesting place to be a religious leader of.
Only if he has renounced the gay lifestyle.
How can a Christian clergyman of any rank maintain his moral authority- something utterly necessary for one who professionally preaches the Word of God- and yet openly flaunt a lifestyle that is in complete defiance of a basic tenet OF that message? Far from being made a bishop, this man should be not only defrocked, but likewise barred from any future communion with his church until he disavows his perversity. Only rarely does the Bible use the word “abomination”… and that word directly applies to this would-be bishop.
SODOMITE
Sorry, I forgot to answer the question…NO!