August 18, 2008
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Art of Beauty
Below are Pakistan burn victims. Here are the links: Link1 Link2
“Najaf Sultana, 16, was burnt by her father while she was sleeping at
the age of 5, apparently because he didn’t want to have another girl in
the family.”
“Sabira Sultana, 30, is seen reflected in a mirror as she makes up at
her home. While pregnant,she was burnt by her husband for not giving
enough of a dowry.”
“Shameem Akhter, 18, three years ago had acid thrown on her by three boys.”
“Sabira Sultana, 30, was burnt with gasoline by her husband, while she
was pregnant, for not giving enough dowry upon their marriage.”
“Irum Saeed, 30, was burnt on her face, back and shoulders with acid
thrown in the middle of the street by a boy whom she rejected for
marriage 12 years ago.”
“Attiya Khalil, 16, had acid thrown in her face by relatives of a neighbor boy whom she rejected for marriage around 3 years ago.”
Comments (194)
NO question to go along with the pics, Dan?
Eep.
that
is
terrible.
why?
terrible…
Wow…
(Note to self: Hey, that’s another tactic to get someone to marry me, eh?)
Dude, how’d all these guys get acid powerful enough to do that? It’s not something I just keep lying around the house.
Wow.
That is sick. Absolutely SICK! What the heck is the matter with these people??
This is devastating.
EVIL.
wow. thats terrible. can’t believe that their guys would do that to them. =/
what the hell.
A woman my father works for’s son’s wife had acid thrown on her face by “an man delivering flowers” who they know was the son’s ex-girlfriend who had become so jealous of her ex’s new fiance, that she dressed herself as a man to disquise herself and attack. The family knows who did it but they haven’t been able to prosecute the ex-girlfriend because the woman can’t identify her attacker because she can no longer see. The man wasn’t married to the woman at the time, but they later got married. Which I find very beautiful and kind. Apparently looks truly are only skin deep, but beauty is found deep within one’s self.
Unbelievably sad, horrifying, barbaric and ignorant. I wish I knew how it could be stopped.
Kathi
This happens in America too,Why men do this i will never know. Why can’t their just be peace and happiness? Maybe i am to young to understand why everyone can’t just be happy. But what i do know is that I don’t want my two kids growing up in the world as i have known it…a world filled with death,hate,destruction,war.
pretty gross dude
I can’t believe that tragedies like that still occur today.
It’s horrible.
And yet somehow people think that Christianity is the horrible religion…
I feel so sorry for these women. This is terrible.
I’ve heard about this before, when I had to write about “Suttee” in an English Lit class. The burning of a widow on her husband’s funeral pyre. In any case, I did some research, and found that in India (and perhaps other parts of the world), it isn’t that shocking or uncommon for a woman to be burned for reasons such as rejecting a marriage suit or not having enough of a dowry.
Dude…that sucks.
makes me glad as hell i don’t live in such an ignorant, male domineering society. …and one that would gladly anally rape someone who did do such a thing.
fuck, i can’t even express just how angry this post made me. all the reasons where fucking stupid too. not giving enough money? being a woman? it makes me want to go over there and pour acid all over their crotch while making them burn in a room infested with hair and flees of a million camels. feels good, don’t it?!
but you gotta give these women a loooootttta props. not everyone can be burned or have acid poured all over them and ultimately move on and live their lives… let alone putting on makeup! most people i know would get disowned or just mope around for the rest of their lives.
How awful. This is horrendous. These poor women. They must be incredibly emotionally scarred, yet strong. The one applying makeup is just inspiring.
hm my heart goes out to them. makes us grateful being who we are… at our beauty.. guess sometimes it does not make any differences.
That’s horrid.
But good for them for being able to show their faces and tell their stories.
Ugh, what a horrible place to live in. Poor woman.
=(
i wish it could be as easy as telling these and other suppressed women that they have rights and asking them to stand up for themselves. sadly the culture in the middle east has remained unchanged and this type of treatment is typical if not common in such parts of the world. a special aired on CNN about this topic. no solutions come to mind =(
They are brave women to go on and to have their portraits taken,there is beauty in their spirits that far surpasses the damage man can do to their body.
Dear God in heaven…. those poor women, help them and bless them . I can’t even imagine how much pain they must have been in and must still be in. Nor can I fathom how anyone with a heart can do that to another living being. Not that it’s my place to judge but the Hell I believe in is reserved for people like the ones who committed such horrible acts.
This post makes me want to choke up and cry… At the pain they must be suffering physically and emotionally. I wish I could do something to help them.
@seedsower - You’re beautiful, Beth.
I find that the worst part is that the men don’t get punished. It’s inpiring though, what they did.
Hate. Hate the ignorance. That’s completely vulgar what is done to women in that part of the world.
that’s so upsetting.
Simply horrible. No one deserves to be treated like that.
This makes me unbelievably sad.
What stood out to me in the photo descriptions is that the horrific injuries the women suffered were inflicted by men. It appears from the photos and descriptions that such violent crime is common when a man is spurned by a women. I would be interested to know more about your photos. The women appear Southeast Asian. It would be interesting to research the frequency of such crime.
**We women have it so good here in the U.S.!** And so many of us choose to live in ignorance in regards to our sisters around the world.
What’s amazing is that the societies that treat the women the worst are the ones that claim to value them the most.
Going on a lot about the honor of women, their virtue, etc.
Those same societies look down on America, saying that men in the U.S. treat women like whores.
Oh really.
I am angry. Very angry.
That’s horrible…
It is incredibly sad what human beings are capable of doing to other human beings. Come Lord Jesus, come soon.
@saintvi - Me too.
@fullmetalbunny - Hypocrisy seems to be blatantly obvious to everyone but the hypocrites. :-/
That’s just inhuman…=[
They must really hate women over there to do those things.
Despicable.
That is so cruel of those men to do.
Can I ask why you decided to post this without any social commentary whatsoever? It’s like…here you go! Here’s some shock value! And no opinion or anything? Wtf.
That is horrible, some of them don’t even look human now!
Wow, I wasn’t aware throwing acid is such a favored pastime in Pakistan.
Absolutely horrific.
there are some really messed up minds in this world, i wonder if there are any medical missions that can help these people?……
Thats horrible.
Xo
that’s so freaking horrible!!
The face of fundamentalism.
Acid seems to be a popular means- But wow. Those people were not punished for what they did, I’m sure-
how do these guys have access to acid…?
that’s awful
@GodsTinyDancer - Yes. Why?
It’s apalling, horrible, that such terrible, malicious intent still exists in the minds of men.
It truly saddens me how humanity in general is still quite unbalanced, prejudiced against the “wrong” things and accepting of very few “right” things.
Wow. That’s so, so terrible.
..and where is all this acid coming from?
Man, that’s a tough one to swallow. Poor girls, poor way of life, poor situation.
Why is it SO common to throw acid on a woman because you don’t like what she did or did not do to you? How is that remotely OK?
yes people. these things are happening in the world.
Dam….
that’s horrible.
Wow.
This makes me so angry. So much, I want to torture the men who do this.. to anyone!
Could these be more indications that evil is inherent in everyone?
How awful! Where is the justice for the pain and suffering of these women??
It’s beyond horrific that women are still treated worse than dogs in some parts of the world. What is wrong with people? These men don’t “value” their women – they treat them worse than slaves.
Don’t be a homosexual, a Christian, a woman, or a cartoonist if you live in an Islamic state.
That is so very sad, sick, and wrong.
well i think they are all beautiful anyway. ~sarina
that’s so HORRIBLE!!!!!
This makes me angry. What is wrong with the men in Pakistan?
@mrcolorful - That kind of comment throws acid on the beautiful face of humanity. It’s not religion that turned these men into psychos.
=[
Awful.
I admire the fourth girl’s smile. That must take some strength.
I’m going to say it, and if you have a problem, that’s too bad.
Fucking savages.
man some cultures are just damn sick in their ways of thinking.
It’s sad to see that men can get away with anything as such in Pakistan, yet, they can get away with little to nothing in the United States and women can completely take them to the cleaners. Will society ever be able to reach a middle ground between men and women’s rights?
It’s also terribly sad to see how men are so selfish in Pakistan to commit such acts.
note to self. pakistan.
our so called moderate muslim nation.
i wonder what happened to the men who perpetrated such hideous crime.
That is heartbreaking and horrible. I can’t begin to comprehend how you could do that to another person.
i feel very sad
Don’t we have a “Crimes against Humanity” law somewhere on the books? We hear about these reports and sometimes see the result, but they have to live with this day after day. It has got to stop! People have to realize that life is precious and not to be taken lightly.
Hm. Sad. However, I think we should just ignore it all though because we have enough of our own problems here (sarcasm).
That’s so sad. But why no question? Strange…
My heart breaks for these women…every single one of them.
I hope those that hurt these poor women burn in hell.
I just can’t believe the way women in the middle east are treated. I learned about honor killings last semester and was completely appalled. A woman is raped by her brother…SHE gets killed by her dad to keep the honor in her family. I just don’t understand what goes on in their minds and why their religion allows this.
@supsoo - I’m sure nothing happened to the men who hurt these women. They were probably doing something “good.” It’s so sad.
omg, that’s awful
@venusatellite - I learned about that in my anthropology class. It’s crazy!
Wow…men and their controlling issues…
DESPICABLE
@shelly100 - I know, the quality of his bog has really deteriorated. Disney porn underwear, bikini waxing for pre-teens, and now THIS.
HE DIDN’T EVEN TELL US WHAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!
that is so sad… and yet, God looks at the heart, and sees beauty.
i saw a man whose face was pieced together after major burns, today as i walked into a restaurant. he was eating alone, and he left alone, but we made eye contact. it was haunting… the loneliness in his eyes, loneliness that no one deserves to live with, and the shame. why do such things happen? what in us allows us to condemn and alienate those who have been disfigured, as if they were worth less than us?
this is a broken world.
These poor women. It’s so unfair that they had to go through this..
I hate being a part of this world sometimes. I can never feel at peace living amongst people who are capable of such despicable acts. I know there are kinder folks, but it’s not like we can all team up to rid the world of “evil” people. They will always be here… and we will always hear news of innocent children getting killed, or puppies getting thrown off of cliffs, etc. I know this probably sounds really stupid, but my dream is for us all to all hold hands and live in peace and make this world a beautiful place. Why is there so much evil in the world? Things like this kills me inside.
shh… don’t post these… the US might start bombing the Pakistanis for mistreating their women so savagely…
As a man I am both disgusted and ashamed. I only hope that with self education men learn to deal with rejection and their own insecurities before taking them out on another human being.
It appears Pakistan men like to hold a grudge for a very long time. They need to find a better way to release their anger than burning the women they once claim they love.
My God, have mercy on us.
How sad.
And oh, as much as this makes me sad.. it also fills me with a ‘righteous indignation`. Those men.. What dirt bags.
wow
And they had such pretty skin… I can’t believe they would do that to someone they chose to spend their lives with. I don’t understand sadism.
omg… that’s horrible.
That’s disgusting. Why is nothing being done to protect women? Is it legal for a man to throw acid on his pregnant wife? Besides, I thought the bride’s father controlled the dowry, not the bride.
Just sick.
uh WTF?!?!?!?!?!? :-
Why? Because “Islam is a religion of peace.”
I hate everything.
How terrible….this was incredibly sad. Ignorance, combined with a lack of respect, can lead to so much devastation. I do not understand how people can do this one another…
However, I feel like I have to make a point here. Some of the comments posted seem to blame Islam for what happened to these women. As a Muslim, I do not see it that way…I believe that ignorance, intolerance and a lack of respect is the cause of such horrible actions and it does not have to do with any one religion. We should keep in mind that these are individual attacks done by men who happen to be Muslim, but not because they are Muslim…
Do not get me wrong…I do not sympathize with the men who committed these acts nor do I support them….this is evil in it’s purest form.
that’s horrifying… my heart goes out to the pain they must have gone through. <3
My heart bleeds for these women…
those muslim boys!
There, really, are no words for such cruelty, is there?
But really, I just wonder if after they throw the acid they yell “Ooh, BURNED!”
It makes me sad that this had to happen to these women. It makes me sad that most of us commenting right now are ignorant to the ways of another culture. But it REALLY makes me sad that a FATHER, a PARENT could do this to his own baby child.
W.T.F.
That’s really sad.
Where the hell does everyone get all that acid?
@apennieformythoughts - I agree. I don’t have children, but I could never imagine throwing acid on my child’s face. How cold do you have to be in your heart to do something like that??
I cannot fathom how we can have a society that treats women this way.
“Sabira Sultana, 30, was burnt with gasoline by her husband, while she
was pregnant, for not giving enough dowry upon their marriage.”
This doesn’t make sense because in Muslim culture the husbands family is supposed to give dowry to the woman. Check the Qur’an.
Absolutely tragic
i strongly admire these women for living everyday with those scars. that’s really something.
there are just no words for this, and I agree with the person that says that this happens in the United States as well.
Such inhumane and grotesque behaviours. I’m glad that now there are help out there for them.
So sad…
People suck. ):
C’mon Dan don’t you know? Islam is the religion of peace.
wow! that is so sick! i feel so bad for all of them, the one on the top looks like so don’t have eyes. *sigh*
thats horrible ~ its NOT safe for any women to travel to the middle east countries..
its disgusting.
It is so sad that someone could think that someone else could deserve this. I was reading an article on this and they said that acid was way too easily available in these places…
@nekkid - i agree!
@Dial_A_Prayer - word!
that is horrible.. and she was trying to smile
sick culture.
= (
HM.
at first reading this and seeing them, that is such a horrible and unforgivable thing to do to a person and its unimaginable how it would be like to go through life like that. and its sickening to think people are capable of doing that.
but then after my initial reaction i thought, now whats your point exactly? this post was only of asian women. like this is a unique phenomenon to asian countries…
i dont think so.
@onacat - lol pakistan and india and other ASIAN countries is not considered the middle east, and granted there a places where its unsafe for women at the moment; take Iraq or Afghanistan…but then under normal cirumstances women are no safer anywhere else in the wrld what with rapists, serial killers and your run of the mill crazies.
I would never call them “ugly,” what what was done to them was ugly–I daresay horrendous. They deserved better than that.
How could someone do that to anyone much less a woman.
Too all y’all who don’t know, this is a common practice that’s been going down in India and Pakistan.
but I too wonder: WHERE IS THIS ACID COMING FROM?!
A culture worth defending from the evil western world.
Oh, man.
Oh, wow…
thats just inhumane..
It’s amazing to me how some of the women are smiling, or at least have a half-smile on thier faces. It’s truly beautiful how a simple picture can show overcoming such tragedy.
This is very disturbing. I’m so sad for these women. =(:::
@addyxdanger - wow, that’s just terrible. I guess we’ve found a limit to the law.
Why is it that it’s mostly men who are so violent? i hope those guys get their poetic justice.
why burn your wife? If you’re burning her because she didn’t give you money, i don’t think burning her will get you more, and if you’re marrying her for money, you’re a bad man.
these women are beautiful anyway. those men are ugly.
That makes me so sad, but you know what? They are all still beautiful. Physical looks only last so long, it’s what’s in your heart & in your head that matter.
I feel sorry for them.
Why is there no question? Hmm. Dan forgot.
that is absolutely terrible. the fact that it’s acceptable makes me livid. it makes me more grateful for living in the society i live in, though. i only hope that the widespread knowledge of this ridiculous persecution can spur on some sort of revolution to stop this kind of behaviour.
i applaud you for posting it.
Irum Saeed is actually still quite pretty, though.
That breaks my heart. It really does.
Yikes!!!!!
It’s amazing how beautiful they are. Maybe it’s the dignity in their bearing and eyes.
@mrcolorful - This has nothing to do with religion.
In the post some of the women were burned because they didnt give a high enough dowry.
Thats un-islamic. Men are the ones who GIVE dowry to the women. It’s cultural, so leave religion out of this.
@Evowookiee - Like I responded to the person before this is NOT islamic, and has nothing to do with religion.
In Islam women recieve dowry’s they dont give them.
In indias society the women GIVE the dowry.
@tchrys - exactly.
maybe she hasnt checked out the statistics for rape in the u.s. or other atrocities to women.
@macluhan_was_right - again
this has nothing to do with Islam.
in Islam Men dont get dowry’s duh!
@Quieroseradorado - really,
So the cultural marginalization of women has nothing to do with religion. I beg to differ.
@Evowookiee - Your exactly right.The cultural Marginialization has EVERYTHING to do with religion.
jeez wish I would have thought of that.
I also missed the verse in the Quran about giving your husband dowry and forced marriages,oh and throwing acid on a woman.
Thanks for enlightening me.
@Quieroseradorado - I’m glad that a dowry just makes everything all spit spotty clean. You’ve got me. So I can’t point to this and say that Islam encourages spousal abuse, or violence against women in general?
Or this
Or this
Oh, and I forgot The Qur’an 4:34 passage.
@Evowookiee - LOL!!!!!
I knew you were going to bring that Ayat up LOL. I never said everything was “spotty clean”,so understand me when I say this, I was making a point.
Your insinuation is that it had something to do with Islam, it didnt and doesnt, and your suggestion makes you sound not only uninformed,but ignorant.Secondly You can point out all the articles you like, so what if a Muslim did it the point is the action was wrong and has NOTHING to do with the religion.
My friend is a christian and her husband nearly murdered her in front of their child, but I would never bring up Christianity.
Have you read up on that verse in the Quran? Or did you just go to Sheik google to look it up without putting it in context? LOL of course you didnt.
Anyone who reads about that verse knows in the slightest bit you cant touch her face, nothing about acid and you use a miswak.
It’s more of a symbolic gesture.Google miswak.
It’s a toothbrush
That makes me so sad…
@Quieroseradorado - If your friend’s husband almost killed his wife in front of his kids…it wasn’t because Christianity approves of it, it simply means that an unbalanced person calls themselves a Christian. It is not representitive of a large portion of actions associated with the religion, and so your example falls sadly short.
I am familiar with that Ayat, and I do know that there are several different schools of thought in Islam regarding the correct interpretation of that verse…even one scholar going so far as to put in perenthesis (lightly) behind the english translation. However I ask you a question. If your assesment is true, then why can I find so many examples of Muslim men beating their women (in the face) using acid, or even killing them to rectify the honor scale, and doing so because it ”Preserves the morals and principles which Islam has honored us” (the first link in my previous post) Why are honor killings so prevelant in Islam…if really the Prophet meant to only use a toothbrush?
@Evowookiee - good question,i’m at work(nanny of 16 month old triplets) so I have to rush this.
1st there shouldnt be schools and thoughts in Islam,sadly there is.I’m talking about hadith,not what some leader taught.These things are prevalent because of culture.
These things were going on before Islam.It is about the way of life for these people, honor is everything. I am “American” my family was born and raised here, I’m not indian nor am I middleeastern or Arab.But religion sadly doesnt always change people, even if their faith or prophet pbuh speaks against.
The prophet Muhammad pbuh said ” the best of you is he who is best to his wife”
Surely throwing acid in her face doesnt fall underneath this.The status of women is high in Islam.If you look for negatives and horrible things of any religion, your going to find it.Have you tried taking an unbiased look?
There is even a hadith about your mother(a woman) being the most important person in a childs life.Knowledge starts with the WOMAN.These are teachings of Islam.My religion has been hijacked and perverted by these morons who call themselves Muslim and do the opposite of its teachings.
I was married to a Somali, I am no longer married to him why?
His culture over took his Islam(his faith)
if his culture said something and Islam said it was wrong,he always went with what his culture said.Sadly enough some of these people can’t even pray,yet call themselves Muslim.
This is not what my faith teaches.
Show me once piece of TRUE islamic literature that says acid throwing is ok.
It trips me out the scrutiny Muslims undergo and religion is mentioned, it couldnt be that this person was a monster. A jewish man in florida plotted to blow up an ISlamic elementary school. IT barely made the news and religion wasnt mentioned.If he was Muslim it would have been a whole nother story.
@Quieroseradorado - But here is where it gets murky. It can be argued that Islam took over the somali’s culture; being as it was during their westward expansion precluded by The Ottomans. We could easily be talking about Moracco, Saudi Arabia, certain parts of London, Libya…etc. It seems like only when enacted in a culture where the precultivity is something other than islam does an idea of peaceful coexistence come forth.
But this begs the question: What makes your interpretation of the Qu’ran correct? It seems to me, especially in light of events all over the world, and in reading the Qu’ran myself, that the peace the Qu’ran speaks of is intended for those under the rule of Islam, not as a member in a global community of people with other ideas. Your book uses rather harsh language, especially when dealing with polytheistic “infidels.” From what I read; these fundamentalists have it correct according to the intent of the Prophet. If not, it seems like quite a bit of the Islamic world have ‘misinterpreted’ the words of Mohammed. Can you shed some light on that for me?
As for bias, I submit that it is impossible to be unbiased. But even giving Islam the benefit of the doubt, even looking at all the beautiful poetry, the artistic expression, algebra…I still find a dark undercurrent. Why are there dutch cartoonists afraid for creating a likeness of Mohammed…even when one can go to certain Mosques around the world and find images of Mohammed? Why should they worry for their lives even if they’re not Muslim? Where is the Peaceful religion here? Why is it that the Sunni and Shiite sects hate each other with such vehement fury, that they not only kill each other; but they gruesomely and bloodily cause as much pain before a merciful beheading? Why is it that there are militants in Indonesia capturing American missionaries…just to kill them; and their justification: it is all in the name of Allah. Why are there so many of these stories? Its not my bias: Its the facts staring right at me.
Now, I don’t hate Muslim people. I spent time in Sarajevo and I absolutely love many of the people that I met there that practice Islam. I’ve heard the call to prayer, and I’ve visited what I was allowed to of the Mosques there; especially the old one in the town center. I abhor the violence done to Muslims…it is atrocious. I also disagree with Israel’s treatment of Palistinians; and the US’ policy of unconditional support of Israel is extremely aggrivating to me.
I hope you have a good day; 16 month old triplets sound like three handfuls, and I wouldn’t want to be in your place.
@Evowookiee -
I dont agree with your first statement. Sorry, But I laughed at the statement Islam took over Somalia. I dont know if you would be interested but the Quran is better in English, because certain things do get lost in the translation.The peace in the QURAN isn’t only for Muslims. Some thigns are harsh I agree.But would it be better if the message was the same,just sugar coated?By the way in Arabic the word Infidel is never used.
A message is a message.Doesnt the bible say that I’m going to hell???Of course is does.I used to be a sunday school teacher. Many in the Muslim world may not agree with me.Do I care? No.
Many misinterpret the teaching of Muhammad pbuh. In the Quran it says “THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION”. If someone doesnt want Islam,its not my business. It’s between them and Allah. The Quran also says “he who saves a life it will be as if he has saved all of mankind” check it out. Some of the stuff in the Quran about smite their necks,which I assume you were going to get at is in the time of war.I wish people wouldnt just take one verse and run with it.
The bible says in leviticus if you come across a gay person toss them off a cliff. Do people take it literally no.Maybe thats why when the bible is quoted you only hear about love.hmm.
The dutch cartoonist arent afraid of Islam.They are afraid of crazy Muslims.Which they should be. Why are u bringing the religion into this.Islam doesnt say if someone depicts the prophet pbuh kill them? You can go back to the aforementioned Ayat.
It makes me mad when I see pictures of him even if muslims do.ESPECIALLY when Muslims do it. Why because they should know better. It’s Sunnah that you dont do pictures of the prohet pbuh.
It doesnt bother me when a non-muslim does it. Why? because he probably doesnt know better.And if he wants to offend my prophet and spread lies,he can deal deal with it.
There are also many stories of jews killing Muslims in the name of God. In the nam of patriotism.there plenty of stories even in America of Muslim women being attacked and harassed for being Muslim.But maybe because some dont die its ok.
One woman in minnesota was 8 months pregnant visibly Muslim(hijab completely covered) and some guys drove up while she was walking home screaming at her calling her a n***** and telling her to go back to her country.She ignored them and they threw full beer cans at this visibly pregnant woman and hurt her badly.How many news stations covered that?
How many people know about it? My guess is hardly anyone. Missionaries probably get killed because they dont want them in their country.I havent killed anyone so I can’t honestly speak on that.But again the Quran says there is NO compulsion in religion.
If you want facts try looking at it from both sides.I have many stories about atrocities to Muslims including the Israel.And I do believe the usa has blood on their hands.We give “Israel” more than 4 BILLION dollars annually.And the palestinians continue to suffer.
Even when Americans are affected the united states doesnt seem to care.Remember Rachel Corrie.How come a lot of people dont know about her?There was even a docum. done by christians who spent time with palestinians and were shot at by israelis and harassed.But thats ok I guess according to most people. No I dont hate jews.I used to be one.
Glad you agree.
I dont think you hate Muslims. You have some valid points although I dont agree with all yoru statements.I’m just saying look deeper.If you seek negative almost every time thats all you will find.
I got your add request.I wont be adding you,sorry.I dont add men on my list. Because there are pictures there, and I am a Muslim woman who covers.
The fact that they give permission for photographs shows the depth of their courage and beauty.
@Quieroseradorado -Don’t know about exactly how Muslim dowries work, but the victim’s name was “Akbar,” not Mary Margaret.
I see a guy in a white sheet burning a cross, I assume he’s a KKK redneck from the United States. I see a Middle Eastern country where men throw acid on their brides/daughters/ex-girlfriends/unveiled women on the street, yeah, I make certain assumptions. So, duh back at ya!
What the Koran says is irrelevant. What do Muslim societies ignore/tolerate/encourage–that’s where you find Islam.
These women dont even have to say a word to have them speak volumes about themselves in the silence of a picture.
@Quieroseradorado - I understand not adding me, and I didn’t request that to offend; I find you an intelligent person to talk with, and I was interested to see what other things you believed. No worries, I take no offense.
What follows is long, REALLY long. I’ve read several books, talked with a few people, and so I’m dusting off my notes from those encounters. Please bear with me; if you chose to read and respond that’s fine…but if not, I understand as well. I want you to see where I’m coming from, and that my understanding doesn’t come simply from preconceived notions, but rather because I do understand what I read, and I have read the Qu’ran…all the while attempting to do my homework to make sure that I don’t miss anything. BTW, I realized that I was misspelling Muhammad’s name with an Anglicized version…that’s simply because I suck at spelling, and I apologize
Islam, at its very nature does not setup a system where it can mutually coexist with other religions. In addition to being exclusive of other belief structures, it also teaches to dominate and eradicate these systems in the name of Allah. Here is my reasoning.
While it is true that the Qu’ran does state “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256), it also says just before that: “Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s” (2:193)…I don’t see how that lines up with 2:256. Which is it? Does Allah tell Muhammad to be tolerant, or to bring the sword? To get our answer, we have to look at the Qu’ran as a whole, look at other places where it might give us a clue as to what Allah wants us to do:
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians,) until they pay compensation with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. “(Surah 9:29)
According to your Prophet, the only way that I am free to practice my belief is in submission to Allah by tribute. My Bible tells me that yes, those who don’t believe in God will go to hell (much like surah 98.6) but it never tells me to conquer you. (keep in mind I am a Christian, and I believe that Christ’s death on the Cross fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant in the Old Testament, creating a New Covenant. If you want me to go into detail about what I mean here, feel free to ask.)
In reading the Qu’ran, I come across several interesting concepts. First off, I understand that your salvation is earned by your works, and that all who fail to adhere to the goodness that Allah speaks of will perish in hell. “Allah does not love those who reject the faith” (surah 3:32,) So you fast, pray, worship, give money to the poor, and make a pilgrimage to Mecca. But even through all of this, how do you really know you’re saved? Especially when Allah himself may be deceiving you:
“We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people in order to make (things) clear to them. So Allah leads astray those whome He pleases and guides whom He pleases and He is Exalted in power, full of wisdom.” (surah 14.4)
Islam is, at the very heart of it, fatalistic. It pleases Allah to send people to hell, and it pleases Allah to send people to paradise. You can be the most faithful of believers, and Allah can still send you to hell. How do I know? Muhammad himself doubted his very own salvation:
Muhammad said: “By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do no know what Allah will do to me. (hadith 5.266)
And if he didn’t know, how could you? “Every man’s fate we have fastened on his neck; on the day of Judgement we shall bring out for him a scroll which he will see spread open.” (surah 17:13).
So, what do you do? Of course, what your Prophet tells you to: fast, pray worship, give money to the poor, and make it to Mecca, but even this doesn’t guarantee your salvation, as previously mentioned. If someone is talking bad about you (2.375) or if you’re soiled with urine (hadith 2.460) or if you speak badly about someone (hadith 2.448) you’re doomed to an eternity of hell. You have such a fine line to walk, and Allah’s wrath is so close. Heck, if you get sick, a “fever is from the heat of hell” (hadith 7.619). Allah loves not transgressors (2:190) Allah loves not the ungrateful sinner (2:276) Allah loves not those who do wrong (3:57) Allah loves not the arrogant, the vainglorious (4:36) It is all about your works…what you do; and any religion that is built upon personal righteousness is based upon the follower loving God before God loves the follower.
So…how do you love God?
Allah must be enticed to love a person by an act of faithfulness, obedience…and through this, earn something in return…prosperity (surah 24:51-55.) Islam is based on the idea of giving in order to receive; there is no connection with God…it is simply a business arrangement, and one that Allah takes very seriously. One of, what I see, the main points of the Muslim’s devotion to Allah is the Inheritance of power. (24:55).
Political power is important in this case, Allah expects his faithful to expand his kingdom, and enforce his law. But he also instructs you to hate people like me (surah 60:1.) So one way for the Muslim to be assured of salvation is to expand the kingdom of Allah
Another way is to die in jihad (surah 3:157), (hadith 1.35.) In fact, this is the strongest promise of Paradise, and this is no internal struggle, or philosophical battle. We’re talking conquest and war (52.42.) Well, who are you warring against? Well….
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them, in every stratagem of war. (surah 9:5.)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day” (surah 9:29).
The only way this ends is that tribute program I pointed out previously.
So there are two things here: adding to the kingdom, and dying in holy battle against anyone who doesn’t believe in Allah, and these acts guarantee paradise from a god who is impossible to please, and arbitrarily makes decisions on who goes to hell, and who goes to paradise. Since you have no way of actually knowing for sure that you’re going to make it to paradise, and the words of the Prophet are thus…isn’t it easy to see how much of the Islamic world Is charged in this way? And can’t you see why political posturing, not to mention control over a culture in an occupied or conquered nation is important? Somalia is a good example of this…as is Morocco, Egypt, Libya. These are all countries which had indigenous tribal religions until Islam pushed across the world. The most damning evidence to this lies in the life of Muhammad himself. Since he is to be the “excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the Final Day” (surrah 33:21) shouldn’t a person, who hopes to make it to paradise, act like Muhammad? So in doing so we:
Kill those who disagree with us, like he did Uqbah ibn Abu Muayt, Asma, Ka’b, the Jews at Medina. He was a brillian tactician, but he made no discernment between combatants and non-combatants. He allowed his generals to do ruthless and violent things to subdue an enemy. His goal was to secure control of the Arab Peninsula, through conversion, coercion, or submission. If what it means to be Islamic is to be like Muhammad…then I think those who are currently fighting against the US…are doing it right.
@macluhan_was_right - “Muslim Dowry’s” work like this.The woman sets a dowry,the man pays.
They probably are Muslim,That wasnt my point.MY point is this has nothing to do with Islam. You dont find Islam in all “Muslim” societies.
Like Turkey for example which has banned the veil. Thats like saying the crazy christians in some countries is where you find Christianity.Oh and there are some Muslims with the name Mary? My Muslim face veil wearing friend in NJ is Mary
.DOn’t be so stereotypical,it makes you sound un intelligent and il-informed.
@Evowookiee - I didn’t read all of what you wrote, I dont have the time.I did skim it and I will say this.
Have Christians never in History tried to eradicate Muslims and convert them to Christianity?I can think of a few instances in History.I wish I had time right now to go through and answer all your questions because your wrong on some points with all due respect.Hadith 1.35( to be honest I dont know where you are getitng any of your hadith) doesn’t help me to know what your talking about.There are many books of hadith. Did it come from Sahih Bukhari ,Tirmidhi?WHich one.Because some are weak, and follow a chain of command and if you’ve studied and read like you say you have, then you already know that.And Jihad IS also an internal struggle.Saying holy war is a HORRIBLE translation. My Jihad is getting up to pray 5am, my jihad is wearing this veil knowing that people hate me just upong site.My Jihad is not slapping the next person who makes a stupid comment and spits at my friend.
Yes I know all about Jesus pbuh fulfilled the covenant,so God changed his mind on some laws and changed them.And a man came along,had a dream and everyone can eat pork. I know.
I think you should read some unbiased literature,instead of the islamic books and the local Christian bookstore,how to convert my muslim friend. LOL( its a real book I saw in a christian book store)
@Quieroseradorado - Turkey banned the veil because they knew what happens when fundamentalist Islam takes over a country. A difference between the U.S. and Pakistan is that we prosecute our “crazy Christians” if they maim or murder others. In Pakistan, these men have not been prosecuted! Why not? Because the authorities see nothing wrong with their actions. Sometimes, “A man’s got to do what a man’s got to do,” apparently. Which means it’s not just the men who are evil, but something fundamental within the society.
Throwing acid on a woman for not wearing a veil has everything to do with Islam. In “Christian countries,” they prosecute the perpetrators. In Muslim countries, they look the other way, even supposedly “moderate” nations like Jordan.
I am curious. Do you believe the U.S. should be under Sharia Law? Do you think we will, some day?
Ignorance drives me crazy!!!
@Quieroseradorado - I would agree with your assessment on Christian bookstores, I dislike many of them and the commercialism found inside. to answer your question about the hadith 1.35, it’s Al Bukhari, which I believe is the strongest.
I understand that there have been Christians who have done great acts of evil in the name of Christ. But my point stands that that behavior goes in contradiction with what the Bible teaches. Are there battles in the Bible? Yes. are there horrible acts of genocide? Yes. These would turn me completely off of Christianity, except for the fact that I know who Jesus is.
I’m not trying to convert you, rather, I’m pointing out what I read as being inconsistent facts within Islam. Other than asking me which Hadith I was reading, or telling me not to read biased books, you didn’t actually engage me on my questions. I’m curious; If Jihad does not mean holy war…then why did Muhammad practice it as such?
@Evowookiee - Where does Muhammad pbuh say Jihad is holy war???
I dont have time to engage you.I’m at work and trying to potty train 3 children under two yrs old.When I wrote my long response before I was home.
In all honesty engaging you and going back and forth seems really pointless to me, I’m getting ready to go on vacation.
have a nice day.
@Quieroseradorado - I wish you luck with potty train 3 children, and I hope you have a fantastic and restful vacation. Though it seems like our conversation is over, I do want to answer your question about Muhammad.
Muhammad exemplifies Jihad being a holy war through his writing and through his deeds. After the immigration to Mecca the Meccans took the property of the Muslims. At this point, we can look at 22:39-40, “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged; – and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right, (for no cause) excepte that they say, “our Lord is Allah…”
At this point I want to interrupt and say that what Muhammad is saying is that his people were being persecuted, and so they have the justification for fighting back. I don’t disagree with this; however if we continue on “…Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause); for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will.)”
It’s much too much to type, but see through the rest of that passage from 22.45-48…especially 48. And to how many populations did I give respite, which were given to wrong-doing? in the end I punished them. To me is the destination (of all.)
Muhammad gave permission to his people to fight for their freedom, to interrupt caravan trade until Mecca submitted to the new faith. So you have permission from the Prophet to fight when your cause is just.
The problem is…That this country doesn’t live by Sharia Law, nor do many countries, and that is sinful. It doesn’t matter if I adhere to Islam or not…for me to disagree with you, I would have to pay the Zakat, and if I don’t…then the cause is certainly just. Disagreement with Islam was not acceptable to Muhammad; he was very ruthless in dealing with people who rejected him and his faith. He goes so far as saying “Do not yield to the unbelievers, but fight them vigorously with this” (surah 25:52) though this word is qital, and Jihad was intended for neighbors of the Muslims, and as enemies arose the definition of the word also changes.
Al-Bukhari agrees with this, all 199 mentions of jihad are in reference to warfare. It is a military event, not a personal struggle.
@Evowookiee - in Arabic Jihad is literally an internal struggle.
I want to know just where he specifically says Jihad means holy way?Or where is it in the Quran? I see nothing wrong with fighting back when your being opressed,Muslims were opressed, as they are today.Who says its a sin to not live under Shariah?
I have no problems with Shariah.Christian nations used to live under Gods law according to the old testament.Do you speak out against this?Of course I know what your going to say JEsus pbuh came blah blah blah
But my point is are you against how people used to live by and follow old testament law???
I think its fantastic that Muhammad pbuh gave permission to fight for their freedom as you put it.Any means necessary.
I know you believe otherwise but I dont turn the other cheek.I still dont have time to write so I leave you with a quote from Malcolm X -There is nothing in our book, the Quran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion.
@macluhan_was_right - LOL! are you serious? LOL!!!
Do you honestly think all Muslims in the west are prosecuted?recieve due process?
You are not only rediculous but ill informed! There was a man in Canada who had no ties to terrorism graduated from a prestigious university in the united states and was sent a secret prison in Syria.No one knew where he was or where he had been until he showed up 5 yrs later.HA! so much for due process. PLease spare me your rah rah cheer about America being so damn great.
So thats why Turkey banned the veil? Lucky we have someone so smart like you to explain it to us.
Thats rediculous wearing the veil has nothing to do with fundamental Islam.Its something required in our faith.BTW it’s also in another holy book THE HOLY BIBLE 1 corinthian read the chapter.It says for women to cover their heads while praying to show their authority from God.Men don’t have to cover their heads because God created man so he gets his authority from man.A man cant give a woman her authority so she wears the veil during prayer.
uhh, I think I missed the caption that said one of those women had acid thrown on them for not wearing the veil.Arent they all wearing some form of the hijab(veil) in those pictures(minus the one thats inside her home,she was burned by her husband,interesting the caption doesnt say ex husband)??? This is where I attempt to attend my discussion with you.It seems pointless, and I feel like i’m talking to a brick wall.I dont mind conversating with other faiths( as I have been doing)but the conversation with you is not even on point.
@macluhan_was_right - oh and I do believe there is something wrong with those society.I think some are backwards and UN ISLAMIC.
THose things are cultural not Islamic.WHich is my first point deriving from the first statement I made.no,I dont think this country will ever be under shariah law.IN this country everyone loves their pork, alcohol and naked women walking down the street far too much.
I know I know I am opressed my husband probably forces me to cover my body in front of strange men.
@Quieroseradorado - ” Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion.” -Exactly my point.
Islam teaches an eye for an eye…and worse- an eye for a scratch, by any means necessary. You are given the authority to fight, not just for injustice that has been visited upon you, but also for any percieved injustice, or any blaspheme against Allah. Your last sentence rings truthfully with my very first comment on this. Islam is Not the religion of peace.
Regarding Jihad being in the Qu’ran as a “Holy War,” It is very much implied by the actions of Muhammad himself. His actions, the ways that he dealt with conflict, all point to his intent. Whether or not he states it flat out, his actions literally speak louder than his words.
And to answer your question- I believe that anyone who looks to works to save them will find themselves sorrily lacking. It is impossible to earn one’s way to heaven; and it seems that way, even from your end as well.
@Evowookiee - Good works do go far in Islam.But thats not all.Even people who have just converted know that.
“Faith without works are dead”
You cant just say I accept Jesus in my heart and do nothing.
Your interpretation is that his pbuh works that is implied.Thats your opinion.I obviously disagree.My point is you can’t show me anywhere,that jihad is literally holy war.And this is where i’m done because i’m now talking in circles.THis conversation is starting to remind me of talking points on fox news.
be well.
@Quieroseradorado - I don’t interpret that though, that is a passage in your holy book. It tells me that if I want to be a good Muslim, I do what Muhammad did. He is the Excellent Exemplar, and so wouldn’t it be prudent to follow his example? How did he treat those who dissented with him? What’s more, Al-Bukhari’s Hadith is only slightly lower in authority than the Qu’ran itself. If he agrees with me…then again, can we also infer that that is what Muhammad meant when discussing jihad?
As for James, to him, works are the result of Faith; God having loved us first and through understanding that Love, we perform works. In Islam, it is Works that lead to Faith, and still you only hope that you’ve been good enough to go to paradise when you die. I know I’m going to heaven, not because of what I have done…but because of Jesus’ actions.
I appreciate your courage in engaging in this discussion. I wish you the best in all your endevors, don’t let those triplets take too much out of you, and as I said before: I hope you have a great vacation.
That is absolutely terrible and completely unfair…those poor women.
Oh. my. God.
I can’t believe the men who did this would think it alright.
@Quieroseradorado -
“uhh, I think I missed the caption that said one of those women had acid thrown on them for not wearing the veil.”
You’re right, I misread the story. My mistake.
“Please spare me your rah rah cheer about America being so damn great.”
Just curious. Do you live in America? If you could live in any country in the world, which one would it be?
@macluhan_was_right - its ok, it happens.
I do live in America and I am “american”
If I could live anywhere I’d probably stay here.While i’m not one to go around screaming my country is the greatest at the top of my lungs, I love this country.
Cant stand the govt but I love my country.I do think its one of the best countries in the world. I am Muslim,I was born here, I was raised here. I’m not arab, i’m not middlel eastern or indian.
My family is all from here. My grandfather was a high ranking officer in the army, my father was a marine, my aunt an uncle are in the army, cousin is in the air force, husband is in the army. I say all this to say my family loves this country probably more or just as much as anyone.
I hate most of our foreign policies I think its stupid how much we turn a blind eye to all the evil cause by Israel.sick of hearing how they are just defending themselves that is crap.
I dont hate Jews Either, I used to be one. Was born into a Jewish family.
Bless those women…they are so brave and courageous. That never should have happened to them.