August 21, 2008
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Your Dog Has Morals
I was just reading an article about a study that suggested that dogs have morals.
The scientists involved in the study believe that dogs are learning morals from humans.
One example is that the “dogs’ play rarely escalates into a fight.” The thinking is that it is a result of dogs adapting to social rules. Here is the link: Link
I looked up “morals” on dictionary.com and found this definition: “of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical”
Do you think dogs have morals?
Comments (119)
Dogs, yum.
all i can say is, wow
Yes, actually.
My dog shares, and gives my foster dog her space.
Damn I love dogs.
My dog is seriously human. He picks up on a lot of things that I do.
Yes. Mine hates peeing on tires, it’s one of his morals.
Great. What’s next? Barking out the gospel to them?
Ay Yi Yi!
my dogs don’t think they are dogs. and sometimes i look at them and I don’t think they are dogs. morals? i think maybe it’s more of a fear of “getting in trouble” with their owner. they know right from wrong and what gets praise.
well I’d say dogs are intelligent and learn so I guess the answer would be yes….
Maybe they pick up social guidelines. And some of these social guidelines could be morals. But I don’t think it counts as true morality because who knows if they feel remorse, or if they just have learned not to do something?
I love dogs . And i do believe that they do have morals.
I even smile as I think about em,right now.
I had a dog that I loved so much. Dax. He was the smartest dog ever. Well, almost. He just couldn’t master
pouring the wine for me.
I have seen some really well mannered dogs. I am not being cheesy when I say this but if a dog can show and respect morals…
Im sure that humans could as well.
Which makes me think of this?:
Why is it that we want our dogs and every one that we know to obey our chain of morals and we get right down mad about it(not me, in general, Im mean)..and we cant be solid in learning and doing ourselves?…
But thats just me I suppose`
Not so sure i would call them morals–but they definitely can distinguish right from wrong.
no
Oh and that dog is pretty cute up there. You can tell that he is trying to be sweet but in a nonchalant manner. ..
If dogs have morals then cats have morals too. My wife used to keep cats so I know more about cats.
Dogs have instincts.
I have a dog – he doesn’t ran away, because I taught him. He listens to me because I taught him.
The only “morals” dogs have are ones that they learned from us – or they have instincts.
The reason play doesn’t escalate to fighting is simply because one of them is the alpha dog. It CAN become a fight when the dogs are figuring out who is dominant. And often 2 males fight if there’s a female in heat around.
Someone should write “The Gospel According to Dogs” for a blog post. I bet that would be pretty humourous. I nomiate TheBlackSiperman!!!
Well, in a sense, yes, but not because of any ethical contemplation.
If every being around the dog acted a certain way, and they were punished for breaking these unspoken guidelines and the dog learned to follow these guidelines, creating the appearance that dogs have morals, then I guess that’s another trick dogs could learn. Do they have an innate sort of moral code? I don’t know, I’m not a dog. If people have to ask whether atheists have morals, what makes dogs so special?
No. They’re highly trainable and they understand reward and punishment. Didn’t Pavlov already cover this?
Judging from the way my dog dove at a cat in the hallway and picked it up with is sharp little teeth, perhaps his morals are not such a great model for other canines. . .
Maybe
?
Not morals, but they do know “good” and “bad” from what we’ve taught them. @BebstersBlog2 - you’re completely right about things escalating into a fight if the dogs are figuring out who is alpha. My two english bulldogs rough house and play often without it turning into a fight, but every so often, the male makes a play for dominating her (she’s alpha) and it goes downhill FAST. We’ve ended up at the veterinary ER over some of his dumb attempts.
My dog totally has morals. She is gentler with children than with me, and if someone is crying she’ll try to cheer them up or keep them company. I love my doggy.
maybe
You could probably make the case that even wild dogs are of a higher moral standing than are humans.
Yes, they have dog morals. I agree with la_faerie_joyeuse and BebstersBlog2.
well…bow wow…
No, but they do have conditioned behavior.
Heh, interesting question – I’ve no idea. And I also wonder if a dog from France could ‘understand’ a dog from Japan.
i am inclined to say yes. when i was a kid, my dog Trapper woke me up for school. true story.
I believe they have a sense of right and wrong. I also believe that they have very distinct personalities. I love dogs.
Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t say they are morals. I think that they are able to pick up on what the owner wants them to do. They aren’t going to do something you punish them for and they will want to continue to do things that you praise them for. It’s not the dog knowing what is right and wrong. It is the dog learning what it gets punished for and what it gets praised for. The dog probably wouldn’t be able to figure that out on their own. Even wild dogs learn what is right and wrong based on the outcome of their action. If they get what they are going after they will continue to do so. If they get attacked and hurt because they try something they may not be so likely to try that again. A dog learns its place, it doesn’t have morals. They wouldn’t know what is “right” and what is “wrong” unless they are taught something. If you teach your dog it is right to bite every person that comes through the door then that is what they are going to do. They won’t understand that biting people for no reason is bad and that it shouldn’t be done. They do what they are taught.
@WilltheNeely - No, but they do have conditioned behavior.
Moral action is a conditioned behavior.
Human morality, I believe, are built from a set of complementary components: 1.) The ability to empathize, 2.) The ability to reason, 3.) Social interaction.
Dogs have feelings. Compared to other animls, they’re fairly smart and can learn. Dogs are by nature, social animals. We see this in nature with wolf packs and we see this in domestication with owner-doggie interactions. So a more base sense, yes, I believe dogs can and do have a moral sense.
Well my older dog definatly knows right from wrong. The younger one still has a few kinks to work out. So I guess I’d say yes.
I think they have instincts that pass as morals. JMHO.
@BebstersBlog2 - The only “morals” dogs have are ones that they learned from us – or they have instincts.
Wolves, in the wild, exhibit social behavior. They travel and operate in a pack.
A common behavior in the pack is for younger wolves to hunt, chew, and feed meat to wolves too old and too frail to hunt chew themselves. I don’t think any person taught wild wolves this behavior.
I didn’t like the part “learning morals from humans.” Perhaps if they meant in the sense of, “since they were domesticated” (Which I’m sure they meant); I doubt dogs could get any sense of morals just by living in a home, if they haven’t in all the years of domestication
@huginn - That’s a great base to work from. A perfect three. Did you find that from studying, or did you come up with it yourself?
@ryoma136 - By a lot of sitting around and staring into empty space. =)
@mrcolorful - Co-
I think dogs learn from humans they learn morals and the right behavior from their owners, so in a sense they do develop morals.
Hmmmmmm….tis true, “All Dogs Go to Heaven!”
No. I think dogs just imitate what they’re taught by their owners and what they see around them, right and wrong. Dogs aren’t dumb, but they don’t think like we humans do, so how can they possibly have morals?
the real question is, do you believe Dogs go to heaven?
Most do, but my dog Muttley definately does not.
to an extend yes, but it would also then apply to all social animals because they all have behaviors which are acceptable and ones that are not acceptable within their societies
Bad, dog! Bad, dog! Who said you could develop morality huh?
I do not know. I am not a dog.
@Evolutionary_21 - No. I think dogs just imitate what they’re taught by their owners and what they see around them, right and wrong.
In the wild, absent human interactions, canine do develop moral rules. Wolves work cooperatively in a pack. They even take care of and feed the elders of their camp. These moral guidelines don’t just materialize out of thin air– the hardware is there for developing morality.
SHENANIGANS!!!!!!!! i call shenanigans on this. i work in the canine industry and there is a difference between recognizing whether an action/behavior was or was not acceptable via human response and knowing it “naturally”. to cite lack of play turing to fighting is false as i can disprove this with a group of dogs, probably within 5 minutes. to cite bark differences is also false as humans can also easily recognize distress etc in the calls of other animals just as easily, now whether or not all urbanized humans can do this or not is a different study. i call this a wishful displacement of humanness onto yet another animal species. but whatever makes people feel warm and fuzzy, right?
But more importantly: why is this important?
“of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical” who defines exactly what that is? Is plunging a knife into another person’s heart moral or ethical? No?
What if you are a heart surgeon?
Would a dog know the difference?
@huginn - Exactly.
That’s what I said – dogs have both instincts and things people have taught them. My dog tries to kill bunnies and cats because of instinct and he stops chasing them when I say to because I taught him to. (Though I couldn’t have done it without erm . . . shock therapy)
i don’t think that they can evaluate what’s right and wrong for themselves, they just follow what they are told… i don’t know if that classifies them as “moral”, per se, since i consider morality a conscious choice.
maybe some scientists would be of better use flipping burgers at mcdonalds….
mcdonalds is another story tho….
morals? eh..I’m not sure about that…very strong emotions and capability of picking up on OUR emotions…yes.
But isn’t that basically how humans learn morals? I mean, when I was a kid, I would have stolen every toy I could ahve gotten my hands on if I wasn’t afraid of my aprents cathcing me. It never occurred to me that doing that would have affected anyone else.
@cre13 -
A lot of people here seem to think that dogs are, at best only mimicking people, or trying to avoid pain and punishment, but I am not so certain that humans arent doing the same thing. Probably a good number of you alll break traffic laws. So? So you are techinically putting the lives of yourself and others at risk when you do so, but you aren’t as cocnerned about being caught.
How is a dog wanting to avoid punishment and a human wanting to avoid punishment any different? Just because we can write a blog about it, we’re superior? Dog’s didn’t fuck up and pollute the shit out of the planet, I’m inclined to think they have better morals than we do.
My dogs are lovable and learn to love their master unconditionally, but instinct always comes out. Not with me, but with each other. I don’t really think they have morals. I think their “morals” are just loving their master unconditionally. I miss my puppies now.
@destroyERIKreator - dogs aren’t smart enough to pollute the planet. it isn’t that their morals are way better than ours (lol) it’s because they dont have the ability to actually do something like pollute the planet (or feed themselves, or bathe themselves, or take themselves to the vet, etc.)
They know what they should and shouldn’t do, be it from experience or some sort of morals.
not really
mine still humps everything
idk it depends doesn’t it? so maybe?
Perhaps.
nah. that’s going too far.
dogs are obedient. humans dont want them to fight. they dont fight. simple as that.
if dogs are bred to fight (that illegal sport), then they will fight.
Uh… Thinking about it, I’d have to say no. I believe that domestic dogs who have been treated well are simply of a milder temper than wild dogs who have to fight for their lives everyday.
Domestic dogs who are not treated so well are either desperate to please or kind of mean. Seems like they are responding to their environment, not developing morals.
I think so! My sisters dog knows what to do to make them mad or the right way to make it up.
Plus he barks back if my sister is mad and telling him off.
Lmao.
Xo
Maybe not morals, but instincts.
i would imagine yes. they have moods, understand when me or my kids are upset. she frets and worries about the kids when they are outside and she can’t see them. that isn’t trained, i’ve only had her since the beginning of may. i don’t know if it’s morals, but they think and feel.
I think that they are taught morals from their owners.
Woof!!!
Any social animal needs to have guidelines for behavior in order to maintain a functioning society. I find the idea that dogs are learning morals form humans ludicrous, because they already have their pack behavior instincts ingrained, and yes, there is a code of behavior in dog society. Dog play rarely escalates into a fight because it’s a social ritual designed to establish hierarchy without killing off members of the pack. You have to be a really out of line dog in order for another dog to want to fight you in such a way as to actually inflict damage. This is a terrible example.
Okay, so I’ve now gone and read the article, and it is such a simplistic and oblivious explanation of things, I can hardly stand it. It would take an entry to address all of the weird assumptions the author is making based on evidence that doesn’t support them at all, and the clear disinterest of the author in actually conveying useful information is clear. OMG. I have to go now before I get really annoyed!
I’m not a dog person, so I can’t say, really.
Can someone explain to me how “moral” it is for a dog to hump your leg constantly?
I would have to agree with this idea. They live by their own code, which could be called morals, and they tend to stick to them. They don’t bite b/c their morals, learned from their humans, remind them that biting humans is not ok. If that makes sense….
Morals? More like a product of social evolution and group living than anything else.
Of course.
Against whose set of moral values are we judging them? Isn’t that a subjective question? Just having moral values doesn’t mean that you are what is generally considered a good, moral citizen. Like, if you possess moral values in which you see nothing wrong with shoplifting, certainly it is against the law and MANY people’s morals, but there are the ones ot there who wouldn’t give it a second thought. So what set of morals should a ‘proper’ dog live by? The owners? What a particular society deems appropriate?
We will never know, just like we will never find out if dogs have dreams.
That example is bogus. Dogs are pack animals – social creatures. Their play isn’t always going to escalate into a fight. They haven’t learned that from humans. But I didn’t read the link. Who knows? Maybe there’s better examples.
no?
I would surprisingly lean towards yes. Though their morals aren’t likely as complex as humans I think they genuinely know the difference between right and wrong. Dogs can be surprisingly human at times with their empathy and ability to determine what we need relationally.
That is the most inane conclusion I have ever read. Of COURSE dog’s barks mean something, and of COURSE playing a recording of a human sounding one way and showing an image of a human looking another way would not mesh with the lifetime of experiences a domesticated dog accumulated so it would look longer at the image, puzzled. This is not anything amazing, this is common sense.
Dogs do not have “morals” as I use the word, but did you know that primate females exchange sexual favors for food? Yes, monkeys, chimps, baboons, and gorillas have engaged in prostitution.
Did you know that I can talk to dogs? I met a shy dog yesterday. When she would only come within five feet of me when I called her, then turn away. I lowered my body each time and tried again. Finally I put my head lower than hers and she came right over. After that, every time she came to me she jumped up in affection. Facial expressions, body language, tonality and delivery of vocal communications, it is very very easy to communicate with all kinds of animals. Cats, geese, squirrels. Especially domesticated animals.
When a dog is is alarmed moving towards aggression, you can tell immediately. Stupid people too.
Dogs do night let play escalate to a fight because they do not have a compelling reason to allow aggressive play to result in something that could cause them injury needlessly. It’s self preservation.
Or…
Dogs have morals because they are blessed by God. Soon, they will request to be vegan and start biting people coming out of McDonalds as well as picketing abortion clinics.
@LihKinLi - So do I. It’s embarrassing for people with me sometimes.
@huginn - morality isn’t a conditioned behavior. you can teach someone morals but you can’t force them to follow those morals all the time. someone who does what they’re told only to avoid getting in trouble is likely to do something wrong to benefit themselves if they were given the chance.
I wrote out a big reply then lost it so… just yes. I think they know right from wrong. So do cats.
Warning, rant coming on:
Our 130 lb Great Dane doesn’t jump up on us or our furniture, not because it’s “morally” wrong, but because he will get his ass busted. As for what he does when we’re gone…he used to get in our bed. So is he lacking in moral character for doing it when we’re not around? There goes the psycho theory about dogs being so much “better than humans”.
By the way, people who say this should be slapped and banished to an all-dog planet since they prefer them so much. Let’s see a cocker spaniel perform a life-saving surgery on you or how about asking your pit bull for an advance when you’re behind on your rent? I love our baby. He’s sweet, loyal, and always eager to please, but he can’t tell me if my outfit is stupid before I leave the house. He can’t say, “Yeah, you were kind of being a bitch the other day.” Human beings need to be called out every once in awhile. Studies like these are weakening our social skills with each other and we’re turning to pets, because our fragile egos just can’t deal.
Pathetic!
@C_onlythelonely1 - They aren’t called morals, they are called social contracts. I don’t want to be bitten, so I won’t bite. Such behaviors were biologically successful, as we do not have berserker dogs that live very long.
Dogs play-fight in the wild all the time from what I understand. I didn’t bother reading the article on this one, but I don’t think dogs have morals. It’s just another PETA conspiracy to me.
my dog is smarter than the guy standing next to me..haha
My two dogs certainly appear to have a deeper sense of morality to them than a lot of people I’ve met. Now, cats on the other hand …
In the strict dictionary definition, no dogs do not have morals. In the sense that they have a code, with other dogs (wolves and wild dogs do as well) and with people that have trained them, then I would say yes.
I wonder what Caesar Milan (the Dog Whispere) would say.
maybe idk
Play generally has some aspect of combat in it, and most combat has a degree of moral restraint, both amongst humans and animals, because they recognise their own “kind,” which is th emeaning of “kindness.” Why suggest that animals learn it from us. More likely, we knew it as animals, but can savagely override it with the cold logic of our supposedly superior brains.
Oh, I know that, the pollution bit was just me being snide. Though, you have to admit the irony in saying “dogs arent smart enough to pollute the planet”. Polluting the planet doesn’t seem an incredibley intelligent thing, to me.
Pollution and intellect aside (though I wonder how closely related intellect and morality are?) I don’t see a great deal of difference between the way that human beings are instructed in morality and the way that dogs are “trained”. Lacking any effective way to communicate with them, who is to say they don’t have some sort of morality?
Also interesting to consider how morality is related to intellect. I’ve known quite a few people who were fairly stupid who didn’t really care about how their actions affected anyone else, but I’ve also known people who didn’t seem intelligent at all who were good natured and compassionate. Given that intellect does not APPEAR related to human morality, it doesn’t seem that we can simply assume it IS related to the possibility of a dog having morality.
@cre13 -
I read an article on MSN last week saying that dogs could “catch” yawns from people- so why not morals?
However, I would like to see a study that actually tested the same behaviors in wolves. Wolves aren’t known to be savage and selfish among themselves in the wild. We would need conclusive evidence that wolves don’t have ”morals” before we conclude that dogs have learned them from us. What makes us assume the dogs picked up those behaviors from us? It seems a little egocentric to attribute the goodness in our faithful dogs to ourselves.
Instincts yes, morals? I’m not so sure.
That dog in the picture is sure cute!
If they have morals, they’re the morals of a toddler: able to distinguish between what makes mommy or daddy happy and what doesn’t.
Morals in general – right and wrong – are simply rules for smooth social interaction and communication.
Humans consider murder almost universally “wrong” which makes sense biologically: killing our own species is detrimental to our survival. Large animals and carnivores like lions and dogs have been documented to only kill each other when absolutely necessary for the same reason. It’s morally “wrong” to animals too because it breaks a social rule.
So… if dogs have “morals” then they are really just doing what’s socially acceptable for their species.
…Sometimes…
I guess
…like people…
Yes. They are also capable of showing pride, sadness, excitement, and guilt.
Dogs do not have morals. Dogs observe ranks in the hierarchy. This is something we see out in the wild with wild dogs such as wolves. The same can be said of the domesticated dog. When you get two or more dogs together they start to form a hierarchy right away. There is always a dominate and the other(s) are submissive (loyal). This hierarchy isn’t just exclusive to dogs. Other animals have the same type of hierarchy. We humans, especially those of us who are animal loves, especially dog lovers, want to explain our animal’s behaviors in a humanistic sort of way, because it makes us feel closer to the animal.
Well dogs, like many other canines, have social “rules” and hierarchies, so they abide by them usually, yes. But it may not me so much of morals as not wanting to get into a fight.
I think most dogs have some sense of morals.
Well, I do think that dogs seem to know right from wrong.
And GG that dog is so cute!
@destroyERIKreator - very true! and i definitely saw the irony in the fact that “dogs aren’t smart enough to pollute” i think i even inserted an annoying (lol) in there somewhere.
Perros reflect their masters
Not to infer that
a slipshod dog rarely has finer owners, right?
@DAVERAVEdotNET -
slipshod http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slipshod
No way. It’s call domestication and training.
Sure dogs have morals. How many stories have you heard about a dog saving it’s master’s life? But learned them from us? THAT’S the ridiculus part. ALL animals play without actually hurting each other. It’s roll-playing, learning how to fight to survive. It’s instinctive. For them and us.
um… maybe its because im a cat person but … no.
i think a dog is trained to not bite people or not fight with other dogs. the dog does is not weighing the morality of the situation…
uhhhh …. i guess so … its a possibility
Indeed they do. Dogs have morals based on their societal imperatives and natural instincts just as we do. It must be remembered that, like humans, dogs form into families and tribes (packs), form around the leadership of the strongest male and cooperate for survival enhancement. They are also among the most intelligent animals on the planet. That’s why dogs and humans have formed such a firm and lasting partnership. We have so much in common… and our individual abilities compliment each other’s. When dogs form part of a human household, they lend their natural incentives of love, loyalty, self-sacrifice and respect for leadership to ours. In fact, dogs tend to understand the concepts of citizenship better than many humans. Sometimes I think that if dogs had longer lifespans, they’d take over!
I have heard of cases where a dog will risk it’s own life to save a human or another animal. I have personally seen dogs act in ways that surprise me. If it’s the dog expressing a”moral” or the result of an Angel possessing the dog for a time, I can’t say. I just know that I have seen dogs act better than some humans do.
Dogs have remarkable learning capabilities, but I don’t think they have morals (the way we think of them). It is their instinct either to be an alpha dog or (or try to be) or to submit to one, so if they know you are in charge they will go by your “rules” or “morals”.
I don’t think dogs are capable of having any morals, honestly. It’s more like instinct, and the type of environment he/she lives in.
My dog bit me the other day (she flinched after I pulled her fur too hard when I was brushing her) so I cursed and flinched away. She then dropped her ears and gave me this look. She sniffed my finger and nudged it with her nose. Even if she doesn’t understand right from wrong I think she understood she had hurt me. It was very weird.
some well-trained, good natured dogs do.
Others, just have their issues, and yes… i said issues…
No.