October 29, 2008
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Women Vets Getting Raped
A study showed that “one out of seven female veterans of Afghanistan or Iraq who visit
a Veterans Affairs center for medical care reports being a victim of
sexual assault or harassment during military duty.”
It is said that more than half of these women have post-traumatic stress disorder. According to the article a person is more likely to experience post-traumatic stress disorder if they had sexual trauma as a veteran. Only one out of 100 men say they were harassed or sexually assaulted. Here is the link: Link
Do you think we need to remove the women from serving in war for their own protection?
Comments (176)
I think we should remove the harrassing men. Permanently.
I think we should make an effort to prevent this from happening..Women should be able to go anywhere or do anything, even fight war without being violated sexually…You don’t hear too much of male soldiers getting sodomized for fun.
@unconventionalmom - I agree! We need to find a way to prevent this so that women can take part in protecting this Country! There are a lot of jerks out there no matter where we are anyways.
No.
Women enter the service with the understanding and acceptance of the dangers and risks. It’s not as if we’re drafting women into the front lines.
There are probably more women than this number suffering assault, but don’t report it for fear of being perceived as a “troublemaker”.
Removing the women doesn’t seem to be the answer. Maybe removing or punishing the men who harass them is the answer. You know, punish the people who are actually doing something wrong. Wild idea, I know.
No. I bet that if a few of these women used their standard issue M-16′s to settle the score, I bet things would change pretty quickly.
@unconventionalmom - I agree with you 100%.
Why should a woman who wishes to serve her country be removed? How about men learning how to control themselves and actually having to suffer severe consequences such as dishonorable discharge and a prison sentence when they don’t?
To deny her the right to serve her country is to violate her all over again. She wasn’t the one at fault.
I happen to think an active military job draws a violent type of person.
That is not a judgment answer to your question.
How about getting the men to stop raping the women? How about actually prosecuting the military crimes instead of sweeping them under the rug? How about treating it like the heinous crime it is, something that can jeopardize your career and life?
Removing the victims isn’t the answer. Prosecuting the perpetrators is.
@unconventionalmom - I wonder how the Israelis do it.
I was so close to going military.
It’s a terrible statistic.
I realize that it’s an institution in which women should understand the risks and be cautious, but by that same token, shouldn’t there come a time when we get rid of all of that?
It’s still a pretty new thing, women in the military. I guess, like everything else, time needs to mellow things out too.
@huginn - If men do not enter the service with the expectation that being sexually assaulted is a highly likely “danger and risk” then women shouldn’t have to, either. Especially not from their own fellow soldiers.
No. How about instead we take the men who are harassing them, and treat them like any other Iraqi civilian – blow up their homes, families, and their own bodies.
There are a few xangans I like who are young and pretty and now very excited about joining the military. Regardless of the “type” of person who joins the military, once you are out in the field, whatever you thought was going to be goes out the window. If it brings out the “best” in people, it really brings out the worst in people. By “best” I mean political doublespeak in reference to the “heroes” who “protect” our country. Actually they are killing for our country in inhuman conditions, not that I’m knocking it.
If women are so quick to demand equal rights and be up in the front lines, they will be raped pretty often. Go to the frontlines and spare me the fluff ideals, so they asked for it?
Now they are getting it.
Why can’t men seem to be able to control themselves? It’s not like they’re animals…or are they? I don’t get it.
@abbylyne - If men do not enter the service with the expectation that being sexually assaulted is a highly likely “danger and risk” then women shouldn’t have to, either. Especially not from their own fellow soldiers.
Yeah, absolutely, in a perfect, utopian society, things shouldn’t be this way.
I’ve been involved with the army my entire life. (brat first, now wife.) And you’re right, women in the military is NOT the norm. When we go to FRG meetings, it’s talk always talk about the husbands leaving and support for the wife and kids at home. It’s almost like the Army does not recognize female soldiers.
RaVnR – Being active duty does not mean you are a violent person. More than 3/4 of the MOS’s available are non-violent, technical positions. The image of the misogynistic, woman hating, gun slinging, violent militant man is the minority.
hugginn – How is THAT fair? YES, women enter into the service with the understanding they are entering into a dangerous line of work. NEVER is it meant to be an understanding that rape is a part of that danger.
Also – rape is a very hard thing to prosecute months after the fact when everyone gets home. By that time, it turns into a battle of he said she said. I don’t think the blame is solely on the military as much as it is on the individuals and how they handle the situations when they occur.
The women aren’t the problem, they shouldn’t be removed. It should be the men causing the problems that get removed.
@Laryssa - I do not think that openly gay people and attractive young women are a good idea in the military, and I am pretty openly gay sometimes, so don’t tell me I have no clue what I am talking about.
@MomOfTwo0608 - Nice ideals. Can I have some of that crack you are smoking? I wanna be happy too.
@trebleclef402 - They are actually male primates. Learn about them.
@huginn - They fight for God.
When I read “vets” I thought you were referring to Veterinarians. I was curious as to how this was happening. Now I know. I say remove the violators…and shove pinapples up their asses.
I don’t really believe in women in the military from the get go. However, since they’re already in it…deal with it. It may sound kind of cold, but eh, my little world resembles a “Leave it to Beaver” rerun.
NO, every woman has a right to fight for her country, and should never have to live in fear of being sexually assaulted.
The men convicted of these assaults need to be kicked out of the military for life AND sent to jail. There’s no reason why these jerks should go unpunished, no matter how well they fight or lead.
Many of the comments are correct but there’s one thing that has been left out. The “all-boy” network. This is apparent in assault cases in military schools unless there is media attention brought to it. It’s a case of he says/she says and boys will be boys, it’s more of an issue of teaching men to keep their manliness to themselves.
@huginn - Call me crazy, but I don’t think women should have to wait for “Utopia” for sexual assault to be adequately prosecuted and to feel safe in their professions. Yes, even “dangerous” professions.
@la_faerie_joyeuse - LOL
women should never mess with war in the first place. it’s fine if you want to climb the corporate ladder and rule the company with an iron fist and whatnots. but some things….better to leave it to the men…
Nope. If a woman wants to fi…….WAIT
I change my mind.
We should definately tell women they are NOT to join the military and go to far off countries to fight (they can go to be nurses or cooks, if they’d like). This will give stay-at-home military wives more of a peace-of-mind about their husband being away, as they will worry less about him cheating with some army chick. (My friend (Jenni) has a husband in the army and that is her greatest fear. Unfortunately, not all men are loyal and true.)
Plus, why would any women want to fight or see blood or shoot angry guns or get wounded or die? Not me!!
@abbylyne - There is a big difference between what ought to be and what is.
There are no quick fixes for the problem. You can whine all you want and wallow in your fluffy sense of justice, but that itself is not going to change anything.
@MomOfTwo0608 - How is THAT fair?
News flash: The world isn’t fair.
But that doesn’t mean that we should each stop living our lives.
YES, women enter into the service with the understanding they are entering into a dangerous line of work. NEVER is it meant to be an understanding that rape is a part of that danger.
The woman entering the service without thought of the dangers is either naive or stupid.
No, that’s the same thing as blaming the women for being raped.
@SunnyMitsu - We should definately tell women they are NOT to join the military and go to far off countries to fight (they can go to be nurses or cooks, if they’d like). This will give stay-at-home military wives more of a peace-of-mind…
This is a great idea.
But two things bother me about it:
1.) The fairness of it. I don’t think the fear of rape is so great that women should get special treatment while the men of the front line die.
2.) A waste of skills. There are women, I’m sure, who has aptitude or skills advantageous on the front lines. It seems a bit silly for the military to willfully handicap itself.
I think in practice, policies should be a balance of your idea and my two rebuttling points.
No sh*t, Sherlock. What is…is wrong. But there’s nothing “fluffy” about social justice. Advocating for change is hardly whining, but I don’t know why I’m wasting my time over here. Hiding behind realism is simply another way to stay complacent and apathetic.
I thought they had guns too.
Here’s a funner question, Dan:
If a dire international conflict were to arise, and the country’s very safety was so threatened that it became necessary to implement a military draft, should women be drafted alongside men?
Yeah… remove the women and just leave the soldiers who would rape someone… that makes sense.
Definitely want them representing my country. Ugh.
@abbylyne - Hiding behind realism is simply another way to stay complacent and apathetic.
What do you want? A stupid high-and-mighty song and dance?
No sh*t, Sherlock. What is…is wrong. But there’s nothing “fluffy” about social justice.
Watson, you forgot to respond hitting the reply button.
@static_song - Yeah… remove the women and just leave the soldiers who would rape someone… that makes sense.
Serving women made the conscience choice of sacrifice– family and friends, jobs, years of their lives– to serve their country. Honoring their duty with a “No thank you” seems a little off.
And yet you still got the message. Hmmm.
You can dance about whatever you want.
@abbylyne - You can dance about whatever you want.
You wanted me to dance your two-step, and I said no.
Now that you see the point, you can go fuck yourself.
@huginn - That was my point, chuckles. Now that I read it over, I could see where it’d be taken the wrong way….
I think that there is, of course, a greater risk for certain dangers where woman are involved, but that’s not to say that there aren’t some women who can make major contributions to the armed forces. Hell, I was usually at the top of sparring competitions, myself. I mean, this kind of danger is present everywhere… but women aren’t helpless, either.
why punish the victims? If this reasoning stands true, then women should be removed from the boardroom also to protect them from “sexual harassment.” Change the system, don’t punish the women who make the choice to serve the country.
I’d be willing to bet the actual number of women being sexually assaulted are far higher than 1 in 7. I remember hearing that out of the general American public, 1 in 3 women have been sexually assaulted, but most people would never guess the number is that high due to underreporting.
And NO, I don’t think women should be removed from service for their own protection. I think we need to make a more concerted effort to prevent it from ever happening, and hold the a-holes that commit the assults responsible.
@static_song - That was my point, chuckles. Now that I read it over, I could see where it’d be taken the wrong way….
Gotcha.
Yeah. It’s sometimes hard to read sarcasm in written words. The “ugh” makes the edit non-ambigious. =P
That is disgusting. If they actually punished the molesters, or the
punishement severe enough, then that wouldn’t be a problem.
@huginn - Oooh, “go fuck yourself.” How original.
I couldn’t care less whether or not you do my “two step.” You’re obviously not interested in being part of the solution to the problem.
mmm….people.
It makes me worry for my female friend in the army. What does it say about our men?
@SladeTheGreyFox - I support this.
@abbylyne - Oooh, “go fuck yourself.” How original.
It’s not. The task should be routine enough for you to smoothly execute.
I couldn’t care less whether or not you do my “two step.”
You cared enough to critique the attitude (but not the position) of my comments.
You’re obviously not interested in being part of the solution to the problem.
I have my own life to lead– I’m not too interested in playing the role of woman’s-rights activist. If you are donationing and dedicating your life to the cause, then seriously– good for you.
Yes, remove them from the military, force them back into the kitchen where they belong. Preferably barefoot and pregnant…
WTF? First of all, the question is inane. Remove them from war? Many of the attacks take place here in the U.S. or on other ‘safe’ bases. So we are talking about removing women from the military. Not from war.
This isn’t about women, this is about an institution that REFUSES to see the problems inside itself. An institution that hears about rape and says feh, so what. That has taken years to investigate rapes and murders perpetrated by it’s soldiers on the civilian populace of Iraq. The military in general needs to clean house, starting with the entire officer corps and working down from there.
How about this, I say go the other way. Women are allowed to serve in combat roles in
Israel. During WWII, some of the most feared Soviet soldiers were
female, including some of their leading snipers. Let women serve in all combat roles that men can. Arm them. Private Dickweed wants to try and force his way on a woman, let her shove her M16 into his gut and put a couple of rounds through his intestine. That should take care of that. Equality is equality. There are many women I would prefer fighting beside me rather than a man. Give them the chance to do it.
And before anyone asks, I was raised an Army brat and am a veteran so no, I don’t have anything against the military.
I read about this stat elsewhere.
I don’t know. It sounds so hypocritical to say that I’m an equalist, then say that women shouldn’t feel morally obligated by society to do *every single thing* a man might do. Like join the military for the purpose of fighting in a war.
Rape is forever a concern in the combat environment. Usually it is the women in the invaded country, and I must say that if America were ever invaded I would be very upset if I did not have access to a gun.
But when women are on the other side of things, doing the invading, they’re still getting sexually assaulted?
I’m rambling. Never mind, I should go eat something.
No. The military needs to figure out how to train ALL members in self-discipline; not just the men. I was a Navy wife for nine years. I saw the ships coming in from 9 month WESTPAC cruises with a significant number of female sailors pregnant and a significant number of male sailors suffering from STDs. The military establishment is highly resistant to change of any kind which is why it is not dealing competently with issues regarding female members. It needs a complete overhaul, but that won’t be happening anytime soon.
maybe they should just have a womens only section.
I don’t think we need to remove women from the military for “their own safety”. That’s just another form of sexism and kind of similar to other things the government mandates we can’t do, “for our own safety”. There is no draft. Woman have options today, and if they chose to join the military, they should expect to be treated as one of the guys. Like if a girl joined the high school football team. You can’t play with the big boys but expect to get special treatment. I am sorry women are being abused, I really am, I know that is a horrible thing to have to go through. But in joining the military, you are giving your life to your country, and putting it in stranger’s hands to begin with.
No, but maybe we need to figure out how to better protect them and make them feel safer about reporting such incidents when they occur not weeks, months, or years after.
(I am not in the army, but I wonder if some of the reason they don’t report the incident for a while is that they feel they should have been able to stop it. It’s difficult for those of us who have no training in self defense to report such attacks; we blame ourselves for it at first. That self-blame is often the source of shame that prevents us from reporting the crime. I feel like I (personally) might have an even harder time reporting it if I were trained to defend myself. I would doop myself into believing that defense training should have allowed me to stop it. I just wonder if that enters their heads. If it does, then what can the military branches do to ensure that women feel more comfortable reporting such things? I don’t know. I think this is rambling, so I am going to stop now.)
@bosefius - you are great!
@Krissy_Cole - Thanks
@bosefius - exactly what i was going to say, minus the army brat and the veteran part
@Chronicals_of_a_Chairman_V2 - No problem, not all of us were lucky enough…then again, there is a reason I am a veteran and not currently serving.
No, we should isolate them from male comrades.
A rapist should be excuted period. I totally agree with bosefius !
Navy vet – not currently serving
I think if you signed up for it, you should be aware of what you’re getting yourself into and bear the burden of your own decision.
I’m fully supportive of the idea of being what you want to be, regardless of gender etc… but especially as women there are things we know that we may be subjected to in certain lines of work. And you should know the risks before you go, and deal with them accordingly, or do something else for a living. In male-dominated fields, sexual harassment at the least is to be expected on some level, and the military is traditionally a male-dominated field.
No
@huginn - but then in a perfect utopian society there would be no war or military either, so the whole concept would be gone.
Political correctness and feminism kind of ignored human nature in favor of some sort of “we are all good underneath” type of speak, which isn’t exactly correct. The Bible, written centuries before feminism of the 21st century says that we are all depraved.
So, to answer your question, I think anyone but a misty-eyed proponent of gender neutrality could have guessed what would happen. But oh no, if you said something to that effect you were vilified. Of course men and women could be “good” if you gave them half a chance.
See what I mean?
No!
no. if you remove women from serving in the armed services during a war because they are being harrassed and./or rapes that’s tantamount to condoning harrassment and rape. It’s saying that people shouldn’t have to control themselves or behave themselves and institutions don’t have to work hard to teach people to act honorably.
That’s dumb. We really need to change the culture as much as we can and encourage people to be as good as they can be and let women decide themselves whether serving in a warzone is worth the risk. It’s their life after all. It’s hardly appropriate for society to impose choices upon them.
I think there needs to be more checks in place and more consequences for people who commit these assaults. If we took the women out, it would give an idea they are not capable of the duty and would give the men an idea that they are more vulnerable. and hey.. if you are holding a gun when this happens, shoot the guy in the leg or something and make it known what happened. tell americans, tell everyone who is supposed to be on your side. EVERYONE. If its known about, there can be more done to stop it.
@RaVnR - you think because one volunteers to serve his country through the military makes him violent in nature? wow… i wonder, has anyone in your family ever served, and just how violent might they be? ~ jack
We need to prevent it from happening.
Of course we should do more to protect them, we protect them in the real world why not the military? They’re doing a great service to our country and shouldn’t be treated like that.
there is no place in the military for women,,, period,,,
only a limp wristed president like jimmy carter or bill clinton woud think its ok,,,,
its just,,,,, stupid,,, there are no other words for it.
and,,,
they deserve what they get…
end of story.
@SladeTheGreyFox - Exactly what I was gonna say! I don’t think they have a place in our military, they’re giving it a horrible reputation!
ok then….why don’t we just slap on chastity belts on ALL the women so that the men can’t penetrate or rape…
that solves EVERYTHING
if the men wants to fuck, they have those huge spiders and the camels…or their own hands.
girls can masturbate as well.. its army regulation that you CAN’T have sex when ur in the frontlines…. so just jerk it or leave it people!!!
@mejicojohn - Are you actually serious?! Wow…and I thought I’d seen the extent of closed-mindedness…
My mother was miltary, and I might be if it weren’t for medical conditions keeping me out.
There is no reason women can’t serve in the military. We are not the “weaker sex.” I have a friend who is a Marine, and I’m quite sure she could kick most men’s asses!
Maybe your military should promote gay sex to help reduce the amount of heterosexual rapes.
@RaVnR - your right of course,,, i joined the military for one purpose,,, to kill gooks,,, hahahaha,,, probably a non politically correct word now,,, but at the time,,, that was the reason.
the last rash of employees joined to kill ragheads,,, which as far as i know,,, is still politically correct,,,
now,, there is violent, and there is violent,,, violent not necessarily meaning violent,,,
im not a violent person,,, i do live a violent life,,, . i have all the broken bones to prove it.
I think that if we would just announce a new policy most of those harassments and assaults would disappear very quickly. In fact, I would be very surprised if it didn’t eliminate it altogether. That new policy is even very simple:
Any person feeling sexually assaulted, or harassed, has the right to shoot the offending soldier, regardless of rank, up to ten times.
@Child_of_the_Earth - the object of the military is to fight wars,,, do some research,, who had the most casualties in ww2? do some more research,,, maybe you will find out why…
i take it your not one who whines about the measly couple of thousand who have been killed in iraq.
casualties are irrelevant to you then,,, right?
@mejicojohn - I said nothing about casualties. And there are casualties no matter what the gender of those serving. And my issues with the war in Iraq aren’t about who’s serving. They’re about our reasons for going over in the first place(*gasp* a liberal!!). To say women are responsible for the causalities in war is extraordinarily misogynistic!
Yes.
But then again, it’s their decision.
My daughter’s best friend is in Basic training right now. I hope they include, in that training, self defense against rape (one would think they would!) One in seven is a very high statistic. Yes, I worry… but I don’t think women should be removed from the military because of that. I agree with the others who stated that the military should remove the perpetrators, not the victims. Removing the victims makes the statement that it’s OK to do that, and you’ll get away with it. NOT so. Rape is never OK.
@Child_of_the_Earth - @Jack_Hawksmoor - Military justice for this should be a .45 to the temple, in front of the entire unit.
at first I thought this would be about veterinarians.
“War is Hell”
@SladeTheGreyFox - not sure I’d go that far…
…but I think they should definitely be dishonorably discharged. It shouldn’t be tolerated at all.
@Child_of_the_Earth - I would. Soldiers are charged with protecting their nation and other soldiers. To prey on a fellow soldier in such a foul manner, levels them with the enemy and we kill the enemy. Instant death would be a wonderful deterrent.
While I don’t think removing them is the answer, I can testify to the heavy harrassment. I was in the U.S. Navy for four years on a ship, a co-ed ship. There was approximately 150 women to 700 men. Talk about hormones going crazy, lol. When we were out to sea, many got brought up on charges of fraternization and had to stand “trial” for such, both males and females as the initiators. All I know is that while most of it was simply flirtation, ONLY one ever took it too far as to rape and even sexual assault with some kind of culinary weapon. He was a young chef who apparently raped a civilian girl with some kind of culinary weapon. But what I never understand was how they could think you could not put males/females together, especially like the young ones that I and my shipmates were at the time, and especially in such tight quarters for long periods of time, such as out to sea, and not expect attractions of any kind. It would be crazy to me to think it wouldn’t occur, lol. BUT, now the actual sexual assault/rape that you mentioned in the article, that OBVIOUSLY is MORE SEVERE than simple flirtation. I feel for people who have had that happen to them. From people I have spoken to that wherein that has happened, they are severly traumatized. Some have even had to have therapy to have normal relations with their spouse, etc. It’s sad that people cannot control their urges and keep their hands off over people when they say “No!”
Have a great day!
Cheryl
@SladeTheGreyFox - well you do make a good point. But does that make us any better than some of the people we fight, though?
@writingsongsforBlair - lol, don’t feel bad about thinking it was veterinarians. When Iraq or whoever the country was that invaded “Georgia” invaded “Georgia,” my initial thought was it was “Georgia, U.S.A.” LOL
No, we need to stop the sexual harassment. The women are being brave enough to fight a war that they may not live to see the end of, there’s no need to add more needed stress to their lives by not punishing soldiers for sexual harassment. Rape and sexual harassment needs to stop, not women serving in the military.
@SladeTheGreyFox - exactly.
It’s not the women who are the problem here…………
@Child_of_the_Earth - Once you remove those that would bring us lower, it would.
my buddy from the military told me the stats were more like 1/3 or 1/4, but most of those women get penalized or docked pay, their superiors look the other way or something for reporting.. =( for the most part, the military is still a largely male-dominated field, but if women want to, I feel they should definitely have the opportunity to serve their country- perhaps there could be better protection for them.
Of course note….we need to remove the RAPISTS, not the victims.
@Mcon - Maybe your military should promote gay sex to help reduce the amount of heterosexual rapes.
Does Canada even have a military?
That seems like the wrong question. It’s like saying we should get rid of all minorities in the US so they don’t have to be subjected to racism.
After providing the study statistics as setup, I find the question you chose to ask interesting because it sort of implies that the root of the problem is the fact that women are serving in the military. In my opinion, the root of the problem is the perpetrators of these crimes against them. Women in various vocations have been victims of sexual assault. Following your question to its conclusion begs the subsequent question: Should we then remove women from the workplace, or college, or church or the local supermarket under the guise of protecting them? Of course not. To do so would mean removing them from society altogether. Those who commit these crimes should be punished, not the victims. All those who serve in the military, male or female, should be commended for their service to this country. My hope is that as a country we will spend more time addressing the problems we face, rather than the symptoms they cause.
No. Call me crazy, but I think that the men of the armed services should conduct themselves like professionals.
Side question: 1 in 7…is that significantly different from other professions?
What, they didn’t play nice with their toys so now we’re taking them away? No. That’s ridiculous. We created a culture that made it OK to degrade and objectify women. The U.S. is the most rape-prone industrialized society in the world. We need to make some majors changes in the way our culture treats women, not remove them from the men “For their own protection.” We have to cut this “Boys will be boys” bullshit.
(for the record, the U.S. has a higher rape rate than most Islamic countries. And we’re supposed to be the progressive ones?)
@mightymarce - My point exactly… just with not as many words.
@SladeTheGreyFox - I AM WITH YOU! HAHAHAHAHA!!
@randomneuralfirings - 1 in 7 reported cases? Yes, that’s much higher than other professions.
On average, only 1 in 3 rape cases ever get reported. That means there’s an estimated 3 of 7 actual rapes in the armed forces.
There are only 1 in 6 estimated rapes (reported and unreported) in society as a whole. That means you’re nearly 3 times more likely to be sexually assaulted in the military than out of it.
I think we need to cut off the men’s penis so they won’t rape them.
@Celtic_Butterfly - Couldn’t have said it better myself. Being able to serve one’s country is a right as well as a duty.
@elvesdoitbetter - It’s not only the American culture, I would probably say it’s world wide.
@awokenfatality - actually there are some cultures in which rape is a rare occurance. Of course, those sultures are definitely in the minority, but they’re out there!
@elvesdoitbetter - Except that the study says “sexual assault or harassment”, not just rape.
@randomneuralfirings - Yes, and so does the study for the other stats I quoted. Sorry, I wasn’t very clear.
@huginn - Agreed with you, but these days the “front lines” are pretty much non-existent in combat zones in Iraq and Afghanistan, anytime you are “outside of the wire” (outside of a base or outpost) you are in potential danger or harm.
I once heard a story from a few years back when a military truck/vehicle left every day at the same time and same gate full of female military personnel to go to another location for the purpose of searching the Arab women, because in their culture its definitely not ok to have infidels like us to search their women.
One day the truck left the wire and there was a bomb that blew them all up. Bloody fucking story, there were body parts, blood everywhere……they had to go gather all the bodies and stuff them into humvees to bring them back.
Shit sickened me to hear about that, I wasnt even there but the guys I talked to saw it with their own eyes and volunteered to help carry them. Theres something about a women’s death in a combat zone that effects those around more then a male counter part in my opinion.
I wish that no American female ever had to give their life in this war, nor any of my brothers in arms, but those are just risks that we have to take in this line of work.
We all swear to protect the constitution and country when we join and should be aware of all the risks and dangers involved, thats true.
@MomOfTwo0608 - rape should definitely NOT be part of that danger.
To the rest: generally I’ve seen both sides from personal experience in the military. A lot of women are seen to have taken advantage of opportunities to “get in” good to their superiors and use this to climb in rank faster, or believed by many at least. Not like they do any studies but its kind of strange when you always have high ranking officers and staff NCOs at the chow hall with some attractive looking low ranking military personnel at the tables they are sitting at.
I’ve overheard women on the buses talking about how this or that senior ranking person has asked them unapproriate/unprofessional questions like between two guys who they would rather have sex with.
And many stories about how female military personnel sleep around all the time, and sometimes after sleeping with certain higher ranking guys (fraternizing) and something goes wrong or they dont get it their way….they go off and cry rape!
All based on allegations which definitely usually will ruin a career regardless if its true or not because theres not much you can do to prove shit like that, after supposed “consensual sex or rape”.
all very badly skewed and nothing is perfect. I’m just glad that my MOS is a ground combat MOS and there is not ONE female in my unit, I feel like that would just be trouble waiting to happen in my humble opinion….sure theres plenty of squared away female military out there but the few can sure cause a stir.
Um, no. I think we should remove men who rape and assault women permanently. A lot of people are avoiding the problem and saying things like “well they should expect it” but that’s ludicrous.No one should have to expect that.
VOTE PRO-LIFE
YES I AM talking to you Christians, Jewish, & Catholic Voters who are about to sell out your values!
No, but the problem is that they are often afraid to come forward because of rank issues. There needs to be some sort of honest, and fair military department specifically for looking into sexual harassment. There are way more women in the military now, and I’ve met my fair share of badass women soldiers. If men are such ingrates that they rape their comrades, then maybe they shouldn’t be in the military.
I think in general a war isn’t a proper place for women.
I’d like nobody to leave their homes and loved ones.
Civilian women get raped, too.
No, I think men need to be taught not to be giant douchebags and feel entitled to harass anything with a vagina.
Oh yeah, protecting men from the dangers of serving in war might prove beneficial as well.
Hmmm…. I don’t really know how we should go about stopping that problem without offending someone…. ??
@benjimau5 -
You are disgusting misogynist and what is wrong with the US in general and the military at large.
One in 7 actually makes for SAFER odds than being your average woman on the street in the US. Those odds are anywhere from one in three women to one in 5 women are sexually assaulted.
As a women that was Active duty Army I have to say No they shouldn’t be removed. How discriminating to women…
Absolutely not, both men and women should know the dangers and risks they mayy face when joining the military. It’s completely appalling how high that number of women being assaulted is.
remove females from the armed services? fuck no. removed them from the front lines of war? yes. ummm however they should be able to be on the second lines and as rescue teams. girls do a far good amount of shooting as i have learned on wii online. they are also good at nursing and driving tanks. i am being serious. however getting raped is serious and thats fucked up whenever a girl is raped. i dont like females being on the front line because they can become POW’s and get raped. now being raped by someone in the armed services is fucked up and that person should be shot for treason. after all you count on your wing commanders for survival and if they are trying to get with you; you all could get killed. so a hole damn flight gets killed on the front line all because someone was trying to have sex even if she did not want it. how sad is that shit. im not saying females should not be in combat. they belong on the first or second string of the second line. the first open line could get them in to deep.
@benjimau5 - Uh, whoa. Said nothing about you not knowing what you’re talking about.
I knew I would face this if I joined up. It’s one of the big reasons I didn’t.
I just don’t think it should always be this way.
For a second I thought you meant vets as those who specialize in animals.
its their choice to serve… they just need better protection while they’re serving
Maybe the criminals should be caught and made to pay for their crimes.
@Charity333 -
yawn…
and this has to do with women and rape why?
OH YES! Rape ALWAYS = abortions.
Mystery solved.
I’ve always been on the fence about women in combat, but in doing some research, I’ve found that it costs the army a great deal more to protect a female soldier than a male soldier.
I think it’s absurd to say that women should just be removed from combat because me “can’t control themselves”, that lets men off the hook. It shows that ignorance can be used to justify sexual abuse.
This isn’t going to stop until society as a whole recognizes that belittling women, even for jokes, leads to unspeakable cruelty and violence. Every “take my wife” joke, every “bitch make me a sandwich”, just turns women into second class citizens that are open to victimization.
@mejicojohn - are you kidding? Women deserve to get raped for trying to defend their country?
Seriously?
You sir, are what is wrong with men.
@RaVnR - Remember that line from The Departed?
“Sometimes they cry if they’ve used their weapons.”
“Let me tell you something. They *signed up* to use their weapons.”
I have seen research that implies what you are saying is true for a large proportion.
Sad. Really sad. Our armed forces are supposed to be role models of good citizenship.
@StewieIsMyHero - Haha, same here. About the vets, I mean. Not the pineapples. O.o
this is a terrifying statistic.
someone said to me the other day that “women shouldn’t be in the military because their fellow soldiers would die to protect them.”
@benjimau5 - they demand equal rights. that means the right to fight for your country without being raped.
that being said, the statistics don’t seem to me that high (i may have a skewed perspective, of the 4 women in my family, 3 have been raped and the other is 5 years old), more than 27% of female college students report being raped from the ages of 14-22.
removing women from the service is not going to protect them from rape.
@Laryssa - The front lines bring out the worst in people. In a conversation after that post someone told me that Israel had women on the front lines in the 60s.
They stopped the practice shortly after.
In the all inclusive push to include everyone, make everything equal, blase blah I am reminded on an analogy I am unsure of the validity of. Biodiversity is what allows species to flourish and exist together symbiotically.
What is culture was much like biodiversity? It’s hard to imagine it is not. If everyone is the same, a single disease can wipe out a species. In a culture if everyone is equal… what does that mean for the whole of the culture.
I am changing I think, I feel like a clean slate. After being a bitter angry liberal for so long I am starting to think that a lot of liberal ideals, though good on paper will not pan out well in execution. I say tread very very carefully social scientists. It is easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk should be done with some trepidation.
@lotta_valdez - I agree with you, I like you a lot but I really have to do a great deal of learning before I can pick up your sword. I am starting to think that things are the way they are because of a lot of factors people are unaware of, the animal within, under the human ego in the lump of protein we call brains. I am not even disagreeing, but on the front lines, brutality is what works. Basic is to instill mindless obedience, and horrrible things happen in war. There is no excuse, but it is what it is. How can we fix this? Really how can we?
@colette_gabrielle - Did you just get trolled?
@phoenix_escape - Read my comment above to hear my take on that. War is not really the place to make men behave for it’s very nature is to make men animals.
No. It’s a risk they knew they were taking when they signed up. However, what we should focus on is reducing the incidents of assault, and removing the ones responsible. This goes for both male and female offenders.
@lotta_valdez - I think it goes both ways (the sexual jokes, that is), but yes, the portrayal of women in today’s society plays a significant role in how men in the armed forces see women. After all, it’s not like men are going to completely change the ideals and perspectives they’ve had just because they’re in the armed forces.
@SladeTheGreyFox - i agree with you.
Yes, until those military men can control their hormones.
The Army definition of harassment includes calling someone “honey” or an unwelcome touch. Both have happened to me (a male) and I just don’t make a big deal out of it. Every unit in the Army is required according to Army Regulation to undergo prevention of sexual harassment and sexual assault training. Some units do better than others.
Sexual assault means doing something for sexual gratification without consent, which can include no contact made (leering, or other more unusual things which have occurred). And some people think a bullet through the head in front of all their friends and coworkers is appropriate? That is disgusting. In case anyone is wondering, the maximum penalty for rape in the Army is death.
Hey let’s ignore the problem (rapists in the military) by removing women’s right to serve their country.
hmm the problem doesn’t have to do with women being raped, thats just a root of the problem, the real problem is the ppl thinking its ok to rape—something should be done to stop that, disciplinary actions of course…
Get rid of the men!!!
Absolutely Friggen NOT! More like take out the asshole men who are sexually harassing them.
The idea of needing to remove women for their own protection is ludicrous! Further training of males on sexual harassment and proper conduct is required. I’m sure there are many instances where there are groups of male soldiers acting like a frat club — the commanding officer just forgets that it happened.
@possums_rock - I hope and pray that you are just joking or being sarcastic. If not… Your “little world” is a fucking fantasy, sweetheart. “Leave It To Beaver” was a ficticious TV show… NOT real life. You are a fucking disgrace to all women. To tell a woman who has gotten raped to “deal with it” is just about as sick as the actual rape.
@bosefius - *stands up and applauds* Well said!!!! btw I love your username. You a Hank Jr. fan?
@LadyValkyrie37 - I’m saying they go in knowing the risks. It isn’t right, no, but I’m guessing most of them don’t want special treatment either. That would in fact defeat the purpose of equal rights, no?
i believe women need to be removed. im not very informed on this matter though.
Did you know that the leading cause of PTSD in men is exposure to combat while for women it’s sexual assault? 1 in 6 women have experienced sexual abuse in America. Not condoning it, but it sounds like women in uniform are safer V.V
@possums_rock - WTF?! Are you insane?! Special treatment? Seeking justice for a crime committed against oneself is not asking for special treatment! Equal rights of women has nothing to do with rape! It doesn’t matter if the victom of rape is female, male, adult, or child… rape is rape… it’s a crime… a heinous crime… and the perpetrator should pay for their crimes. The victom is just that… a victom. The victom should not be made to feel as though they had it coming. No means no. I am so disgusted by you.
@LadyValkyrie37 - I am in no way condoning rape, nor am I trying to lessen the fact that it is a crime. If they can prosecute fine, but I believe the issue at hand was withdrawing women from battle. I am against that. “Justice” does NOT involve taking women out of the war zone.
No. Rape can happen in every country. The fact is, people face dangerous situations when they agree to go into the military force; not just rape, but death, and that goes for men as well as women.
i think men are raped and dont report it.
@SladeTheGreyFox - Absolutely
@SladeTheGreyFox - haha that was my exact thought too!
The old fashioned guy inside of me says “no” to women being in war. But I have no good arguement as to why, without sounding sexist. It is bad enough men fight in war – why must our women fight too? (torn)
Uhm, no, I say make a greater effort to keep this from happening. Women can’t even walk down the street at night, much less join the damned military, without getting raped. It’s disgusting.
Women’s choice…
heck yeah!
I don’t know… if there are facts like this, and it’s obvious most people come back traumatized from war… I say people (men or women) should know what they’re in for. *shrugs* I say just don’t go to war, period, but whatevz.
@huginn – Our Canadian military has been fighting alongside the U.S. since December of 2001. We have lost 96 troops in our efforts. Also, we currently hold the longest kill by sniper in the world, which was a contest held in Afghanistan.
@unconventionalmom - Mcon is an asshole. My remark was only meant sarcastically..
No. More like remove the people that are raping them.
I think women should be removed from combat only every other postion should be open if the women can pass the the SAME test as a man I say welcome aboard. I think guys should be using there big heads to think instead of there little heads things would be better or these men need to blow there pay on a prostitute.
@lotta_valdez - i believe i said women have no place in the military,,,
the other,,, is a consequense pretty much inevitable,,,,
does that make it clearer?
i can think of several occupations where women shouldnt be,,, the military is one,,,
in their own branch,,, fine,,, mixed with men,, no,,,
my thoughts,,, are whats right with men,,, and i dont need my daughter to protect me,,, if i do,,, i dont deserve to exist,,, and neither does any man,,,
well,, any male who thinks she should,,, is not a man,,,,
thats a left wing socialist idea,,, not an american idea. (women mixed with men in the military)
@Child_of_the_Earth - this particular xanga site cuts off comments without notice if they are too long,,, i can therefore not go into detail,
i did not say they were responsible for casualties,, altho im sure they are in some cases,,,
some men go out of their way to protect women,, even if it requires straying off the designated path,,,
that should be enough said about that,,,
beyond that,, in actual combat, women are the casualties,,, yea,, there are casualties,,, donations are not necessary.
i believe i cited a source,,, ww2,,, russia,,, i may have omitted russia,,,, russia used women in combat,,,
I don’t think we should remove women- they should be able to fight if they want to. The assaulting men, however, if also a member of the armed forces, should be dishonerably discharged.
How can you use the word “only” when stating that one-tenth of the men in the US military were sexually assalted or harrassed? How many people have been to/are still in Afganistan or Iraq? One-tenth is absurd!
@huginn - I don’t think that understanding that they enter the service with includes,
“Your fellow American can rape you”
I know of two women who were sexually assaulted, and there is nothing that they could do about it. Even reporting it did no good. That is very sad.
If women want to be in a war that is their choice.
@quitlikinmyhand - The service is far from ideal.
The reality of the military is that it’s a cruel place: Both from within and from without. There may be discrimination based on sex, race, and orientation. Incomptetence and mistakes on the field can lead to things like friendly fire.
It’s a package deal. A pereson choosing to enter the military can’t pick and choose reality: “I’ll accept the dangers of the field but pretend that racial discrimination doesn’t exist!”
Should things be this way? Of course not. But that’s simply how things are, and the problems won’t be fixed overnight.
@huginn - Thought we were talking about rape.
@quitlikinmyhand - Analogy.