November 12, 2008
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Barack Obama and Affirmative Action
Affirmative action was designed to help give access to education and employment to groups that were considered to be disadvantaged.
The thinking was that groups of people like African Americans needed help in order to overcome discrimination that held them back. Here is the link: Link
So African Americans have been given jobs and admitted to schools because they were black even if sometimes they were less qualified.
But now we showed that we as a nation were big enough to elect an African American president. So some people are wondering if there is a need for affirmative action. Here is the link: Link
Now that we have elected Barack Obama as president, is there really a need for affirmative action?
Comments (142)
Oh brother.
Probably.
Yeahhhh boyyyeeeeeee!!!!
no need anymore. affirmative action is racism. they should base it on poverty levels not race.
No, none. We should be given jobs and opportunities based of our individual merit and qualifications, not race or minority status. If I am better qualified why should I be denied a job because I am white and they feel they don’t have enough women or minorites? That’s discrimination too.
Probably. I don’t know.
if it puts Jesse ‘shakedown’ Jackson and Al ‘empty your pockets’ Sharpton out of business….. Hell ya
I find myself thinking that the coast ain’t clear. We shouldn’t remove affirmative action until people are no longer concerned about it. When people are saying “Affirmative action? What’s that, some ‘looney law’?” that’s when we’ll know it’s safe.
There are still racists and sexists out there, after all.
No, but I’m one of the “fortunate ones”.
Yes; for SandNiggars, Asians, Mexicans………….
We still haven’t done away with racism or its effects. I think those who support affirmative action still have plenty of ammo. But I also think government-mandated affirmative action is wrong and harmful — harmful even to those it is supposed to help.
racism for the sake of ending racism, is not a good idea.
@thinmanii - I agree. Two negatives don’t make a positive.
Nor does punishing a current generation of ‘non-minority’ folks for past generation’s mistakes. I feel like it kind of drags out the issue instead of solving it.
please God, let’s END affirmative action. it is insulting to black people as a whole. the one big result of this election that I am overjoyed about, is that MAYBE, for once, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will STFU…they have been the biggest propogaters of racism since the civil rights movement, and everything they’ve said and done has detracted from the respect that most black people deserve. as a black woman, I am so glad that maybe they can stop mongering hatred and division between the races.
white people do not owe black people anything, anymore. we are all on a level playing field, and advantages are determined by intelligence and behavior, not by race.
We owe it to the minorities– the socially disadvantaged– to put money into their schools and to offer scholarships. This is, in part, due to the historical injustices of the United States and as a means to level the educational playing field.
Affirmitive action itself, is a bad idea. Merit, first and foremost, should be the deciding criterion of things like college acceptance. While I respect the University’s right to mold the composition of their incoming class, it shouldn’t be some forced quota.
@huginn - Agreed.
Ending affirmative action is a Change. Yep, I vote for that change. Let’s hire and promote based on merit from now on.
@huginn - I had someone say that to me once, it was really hard to bite back my tongue and tell them that if that was the case they wouldn’t be in college, sitting here, and saying such things at the moment. Puts a twist in the perspective.
Ooo… this is a good one!
wouldnt ending affirmative action put all those illegal aliens out of work?
@TommyCrowwithWhiteFeathers - I completely agree with you!
I’ve never agreed with affirmative action to begin with.
@greenbird321 - white people do not owe black people anything, anymore.
Then how is it that different subgroups have different degrees of academic achievement? For instance, inner-city black and latino kids don’t perform as well academically as white and asians?
In the decades following desegregation, there is still large gaps in average income between black and white families.
we are all on a level playing field, and advantages are determined by intelligence and behavior, not by race.
The ghetto is not equal playing field to the suburbs.
@mooks_dayoo - It’s not that simple. Affirmative action is also supposed to benefit women, the disabled, and in some cases homosexuals. The idea of unqualified black people snatching white people’s jobs and college spots is very real, but also rare.
Anyway, even with electing a HALF black president, we’ve seen that racism isn’t over. People went apeshit and accused us of voting for him strictly based on his race. So even when a HALF black person achieves something fair and square, people will still play the “race card” against them.
What does that tell you?
@YourOuterCritic - This is very true.
Affirmative may be justified
Take from one give to another
The goal is to be unified
Take my hand be my brother
The payment silenced the masses
Sanctified by oppression
Unity took a back seat
Sliding further into regression
Society blind by color
Why hold down one to raise another
Discrimination now on both sides
Seeds of hate blossom further
The world is headed for mutiny
When all we want is unity
We may rise and fall
But in the end we meet our fate together
Lyrics from the song “One” by Creed
Yeah – it’s basically saying that “You can’t amount to anything, get into college, get a job, without special treatment.”
It worked at first, now it’s not needed.
Affirmative action shouldn’t have been implemented in the first place. Correcting past social injustices is all fine and dandy; but there’s no reason that it should be mandated by the government.
People should be accepted into schools and given jobs based on their
own qualifications, not because they come from a specific background.
However, I am for giving scholarships for minorities, but not for lower
standards for minorities.
@BrownBarbie_2006 - it shouldn’t be based on race, sex, sexual orientation. it should be based on merit. maybe the disabled deserve a break tho. affirmative action feels like reverse racism.
I didn’t read the above comments, so I might just be agreeing with someone else, but I didn’t like affirmative action in the first place. I mean, sure it sounded good and all, but it doesn’t really work well in practice.
I’ve heard many black folks say lately that now there will be no more discrimination, et cetera, because of him getting President. I hope that holds true. Him winning speaks SO many things in regards to breaking down racial barriers,
Black folks everywhere have realized there are NO limitations on what will and determination can do, 
But I must say, Dan, I guess, with this election, I have realized something. I never knew black folks were prejudice against white. I never heard any of their jokes about white men, et cetera. I just assumed prejudice was just a “white” thing. Now, I’m not so sure. Perhaps I was naive or it’s just because I never saw or heard about it. I just always figured if they did hold things against us it was because of them feeling like the underdog for sometime, which I can certainly understand, but this election sure has shed a new light on things for me. I guess I would have really have had to wear their shoes to understand the momentum of the first black President issue and what all it signifies for them. Though I voted for McCain, I still enjoyed seeing them have their day. Lord knows it was WAY overdue! I just hope with it comes the same standards that we are asked to keep. Today, in America, everyone is on an equal playing field! Hopefully gone are the days of that which was limiting to the black folks,
If they are like me, they thought this day would never come. My best of happiness to all black folk everywhere, 
Cheryl
@QuantumStorm - Because the government legislated much of those injustices to begin with?
(Really, I don’ t know why I keep finding myself rebutting your points. -_- )
we elected a half black ivy league graduate as president. that doesn’t change the fact that a large part of the race is socially or economically disadvantaged. barack obama is the exception and not the rule.
@huginn - //Because the government legislated much of those injustices to begin with?//
How is correcting an injustice with another injustice logical?
Applications to schools, jobs, whatever should not have a race or gender list to check. It should be purely on merit. We want to get past any lingering prejudice, how does it help to put an underqualified woman or minority into an office? The people around them will see them as what they are: underqualified. While this has absolutely nothing to do with their race or gender, it can feed the steryotypes. “Man, I know. There’s this woman they just hired… she can’t even do simple math in her head.” Without affirmative action, it would be the equally (or more) qualified women and minorities getting the jobs, disproving stereotypes one person at a time. Besides, we should be beyond refusing opportunity based on race or gender.
@QuantumStorm - How is correcting an injustice with another injustice logical?
From your earlier comment:
Correcting past social injustices is all fine and dandy…
You’re implying that (a) There has been past injustices and (b) they deserve to be corrected.
…but there’s no reason that it should be mandated by the government.
I just don’t see how this follows from the first clause of the sentence.
While I don’t think AA is the proper means for it, I believe that the government has a unique obligation to the disadvantaged– particularily those from the government’s legacy of racism and discrimination.
We were “big enough” to elect a black president? What the hell is that supposed to mean?!
@huginn - I agree.
@ClockworkBunny - . Indeed. A whole lot of them. And people that don’t like minorities too.
And quite seperately, I am disguted by how some universities have sham admission standards for their student-athletes.
Schools like Stanford and UCLA should be applauded for keeping at least a sembelance of an admission standard while cointinually recruiting top athletes.
@shelly100 - I think he means he’s confident because he’s large.
@huginn - //You’re implying that (a) There has been past injustices and (b) they deserve to be corrected.//
I’m only implying (a). Saying something is fine and dandy does not mean it is deserving of notice.
Also…
//I just don’t see how this follows from the first clause of the sentence.//
That’s because private individuals must foster the change; it is not the government’s job to take that responsibility away from the people by way of affirmative action.
//While I don’t think AA is the proper means for it, I believe that the government has a unique obligation to the disadvantaged– particularily those from the government’s legacy of racism and discrimination.//
If so, then the government must find an alternate way of fulfilling that obligation – AA doesn’t do the trick.
yes
You are sho riiight!
I never liked Affirmative Action. It needs to be done with
There is as much need for affirmative action now as there was before. Just because we elected a half-African American president does not mean that all parts of the U.S. are accepting of racial equality. There will always be some racism, sexism, ageism, and other types of discrimination, but we need to make them less common before giving up on programs like affirmative action.
I don’t really know. I can say that the fact that minorities tend to be the ones living in the shitty part of Grand Rapids troubles me, and I don’t think it’s because they don’t work as hard as white people. If there is a need for affirmative action, Obama being president doesn’t change that. You can’t point at one person of any race and say that his ability to achieve is the same as all the others. I do think any affirmative action policy should be applied based on one’s financial situation, though. That would address the problem without it really needing to be based on race.
I think America has a long way to come before anyone can claim we’re not a discriminatory nation. Affirmative action has been put into place to protect minorities, not just African Americans, so I do think that making a change in that policy based souly on the fact that we’ve put a biracial president in office is probably not the best idea.
Until black, whites, women, men, etc are on the exact same pay scale across the board IN ADDITION to the diversity in workplaces then the policy really still needs to be in effect. Not to mention, affirmative action also eliminates (attempts to) discrimination against religion…which is OBVIOUSLY still an issue seeing as many people did not vote for Obama based souly on the fact that they thought he might be a Muslim.
@jediwa72 - *solely
@JimiRy - that’s what happens when you type faster than you think. you’re lucky i didn’t screw up more than just that.
this has always been a touchy issue. I’d rather not comment.
@huginn - sry man, you’re not gonna be able to argue with me on this. I’m black, and my mom grew up in Queens, went to Columbia U for her masters, and has been a teacher at an elementary school in Harlem(P.S 30) since I was 5 years old. I know what people are capable of acheiving, if they just reach for it, and take the opportunities given them.
Barack Obama is half black. His ancestors were not descendants of slaves, so I don’t see how it’d apply. However, I do see affirmative action as counterproductive political correctness. So I’m opposed to it either way. But just sayin’… No I don’t think it’ll change, or should for this reason, as I don’t see it as a legitimate relevancy.
@greenbird321 -
white people do not owe black people anything, anymore.
I agree with you on that one though my best friend was attacked because she was white. They thought that she needed to pay because of what white people did.
@greenbird321 - And what am I? White?
@LilSweetJew - and that is why I classify some black people as ‘niggers’, due to their reprehensible behavior, which shames all of us…just as some white people make themselves into ‘white trash’ and some hispanics behave as ‘spics’…
disabled persons placards are affirmative action. some groups will always need and deserve extra assistance.
@huginn - did you grow up in the ghetto? I’ve been exposed to that, and my mom commutes 2 hours each way, every day, because she cares about these kids…I know the challenges they face(black, white, hispanic, asian) in the inner-city…but as many problems as there are, there are just as many opportunities. I know that, first-hand.
@greenbird321 - did you grow up in the ghetto? I’ve been exposed to that, and my mom commutes 2 hours each way, every day…
The fact of the matter is that you don’t know. You have no idea whether I’m a man or a woman. Whether I’m white, black, or none of the above.
While I find your story, and yoru mother’s story touching, it’s only anecdotal.
Our individual circumstances has no bearing and isn’t necessarily reflective of the larger trends and the bigger issues.
@huginn - it stands that affirmative action gives a false perception that black people are incapable of getting anywhere on their own. we’re still taking handouts, and that is embarrassing, and is actually detracting from black peoples’ ability to stand up and show that we’re worthy of respect, because we CAN do things on our own.
@greenbird321 - it stands that affirmative action…
I didn’t mention AA in my rebuttal to your points nor did I support it in any of my comments.
Argh. Way to stay on point.
@huginn - is this entry not about affirmative action? I think it may have been you who got off topic…what were you referring to?
@greenbird321 - is this entry not about affirmative action?
I segemented your comment, individually quoted them, and indvidually responded.
The discussion I initiated in the rebuttal is a second-order discussion. Since you raised particular points in your inital comment, I initiated particular discussion of them.
I think it may have been you who got off topic..
Man, and I thought I was absent minded…
…what were you referring to?
You notice how I quote particular phrases and sentences before I type? Well, this text here, below the quotation specifically rebutts the above quoted point.
This is my posting style. It’s pretty fucking explicit. If you’re lost, even given this, then I think you’re too tired or too careless in your commenting tonight.
@huginn - ”In the decades following desegregation, there is still large gaps in average income between black and white families.”
okay, so correct me if I’m wrong, but your original point was that…white people DO still owe black people something? because you were NOT actually clear in responding to my original comment. are you supporting AA? just need the answers to those two, relevent questions…
yeah there’s a need for affirmative action.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B81CDB3EAFF06E5B
@greenbird321 - okay, so correct me if I’m wrong, but your original point was that…white people DO still owe black people something? because you were NOT actually clear in responding to my original comment. are you supporting AA? just need the answers to those two, relevent questions…
You would know this if you paid attention to my other comments– particularily my opening post..
@huginn - hey, I wasn’t reading peoples’ posts prior to my comment, so don’t get all riled up. it isn’t as if you stayed on topic, from the start, when responding to my comments.
@huginn - and, so we have the same ideals concerning affirmative action…so why were you arguing with me, again?
@greenbird321 - hey, I wasn’t reading peoples’ posts prior to my comment, so don’t get all riled up. it isn’t as if you stayed on topic, from the start, when responding to my comments.
Arguing with you is like trying to hold shape to water. Which is okay, we precieve and operate in discussions differently.
I’ll just avoid proding you in the future. -_-
@greenbird321 - and, so we have the same ideals concerning affirmative action…so why were you arguing with me, again?
I believe that the government has a social responsiblity to fund and improve conditions of the poor and the disadvantaged. This obligation is accented by the historical injustices perpetrated by the federal and sate governments towards racial minorities.
AA, in particular, is the improper vehicle for that. I offered academic scholarships and inreased allocation to inner-city schools as examples of how the government should act to make wrongs right.
@huginn - right, I agree…this issue is not about race, but about impoverished, inner-city people of all cultural backgrounds. AA is ridiculous, and this whole issue is not about black people. it’s about white, asian, hispanic, etc people in ghettos everywhere. I, too, agree with community programs and money being put toward inner-city schools…and especially, especially the end to the major problem–corruption of the administration, which is what holds many of these kids back. having seen the lengths to which administrators will go to boost their own records and benefits, I’ve seen that they will pass children without even putting the effort forward to be sure the kids are learning, and it trickles down to many of the teachers. my mom, for example, has been ostracized for trying to actually teach these kids, and to make sure each one knows what they need to know to get on to the next grade, while her principal, and many of her fellow teachers, simply focus on curriculum and test scores–even going so far as to pass children to the next grade and doctor test scores to make themselves look better….so we DEFINITELY need more money put toward these schools so that there can be maybe a watchdog group that moderates the teachers, the curriculum, everything, to make sure these kids are learning, and growing, and maturing…not just attending school and being passed from hand to hand.
Nope, not at all. That all is out the window now.
Affirmative action should never have existed anyway.
So is the implication that because Obama became President that all of the injustices affirmative action was meant to rectify, have been resolved? I doubt that that has magically happened since November 4th, although it would be great news.
I hate hate hate affirmative action. In the Army every time a white person gets a promotion a black one is supposed to at well. In my unit there are somewhere around 80 white lower-enlisted and 2 black. So (although it doesn’t exactly work this way, it’s core-wide not within a unit) if two of the white enlisted got promoted to Sergeant, guess who else gets it?
Oh! and then to top it off we have equal opportunity representatives who were on the verge of whopping my ass when I told them that racism was (in part) subconsciously rooted in our minds and everyone has racist thoughts and impulses just because of upbringing and the message conveyed by the media and other people. How can you have an equal opportunity rep in an organization that practices AA?
affirmative action has pretty much been against asians here in sf because we get into the top schools and such, so i really don’t care much for it.
Affirmative action demoralizes minorities by telling them that without this, you would have this job because you aren’t good enough on your own.
Affirmative action never should have been started . . .
The recent election was a form of affirmative action. Unqualified–simply because of race. Don’t believe it? All we’ve heard for the past week is “first African American President.” Yep. That’s the kind of qualifications I’m looking for–skin color.
(Psst—he’s half white, but that’s not a qualification either.)
@LadyValkyrie37 - LOVE that song! And so true!
Affirmative action is for more than Blacks. We have not had a female president, Hispanic, or Asian to list a few. If we get rid of affirmative action and then your kid or wive can’t get a job, you better be one hell of a breadwinner!
@insaneblogger - @huginn - @greenbird321 - Actually, what people fail to realize is that “minority” doesn’t simply mean an ethnicity that is smaller in number. It is rather, the group of people with the least amount of power and privledge. Sine it is painfully clear that the WASPs have the majority of that, everyone else, is in the minority. However, suppose if one day another ethnic group were to become the majority in America. (which is always possible) Then if affirmative action is still in existence, then the WASPs could be able to use that to their advantage. After all, it is well on its way, considering more caucasian americans are on welfare than african americans, and are having less kids nowadays compared to say, hispanic americans…..”Change” could happen more rapidly than you think, and in many ways.
THERE NEVER WAS
There is never any justification for racism.
Well, he’s stated that he wants to move from race-based AA to class-based AA, to give all the low-income and low-to-mid income families a chance. Once we level the playing field just a bit, it’ll give everyone the same opportunities to make it. Whether they choose to use it is up to them.
I think the fact that Obama got elected in large part BECAUSE he’s black (well… Arabic successfully PRETENDING to be black) proves that affirmative action is antiquated & unnecessary. It also happens to be inherently racist and immoral from the start.
Click this:
http://apps.new.facebook.com/causes/146964?m=c3ecef48&recruiter_id=24717148
@mooks_dayoo - 100% agree. Voting for someone because you’re afraid to offend their race, is racism. Giving someone a job based on race is racism, but because it’s racist toward’s whites, no one seems to think it’s really racism, like other races can’t be racist. Which makes the white people who invent terms like “affirmative action” seem even more racist because they believe they are the only ones smart enough to have and stop racism. We are not African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Caucasian Americans, we are Americans and we all need to realize we are equal and judge IQs, Work tendencies etc not pity or fear of things that your great-great-great-great grandfather did to someone else, forgive and remember.
@mooks_dayoo - I agree with you, believe me, but I still don’t think it’s that simple. I was fortunate enough to have two parents and be raised in a middle class environment where education and personal responsibility were important. I realize a lot of my black peers didn’t have the same jumpstart in life.
Let’s say a white suburban kid and a black kid from the projects has a B average, and there’s only one full-scholarship slot left at a prestigious prep school. Kids who go here are guaranteed college entry. The board selects the black kid. Is it unfair? Yes and no. The white kid has options. His parents can pay for him to go to any other school in the area, and he’ll probably go to college anyway, as long as he wants to. Contrarily, this the black kid’s only shot. His mother can barely afford rent, let alone private school or college. He’s not athletic, so academics is his way out of poverty. There’s way more to the story than what’s on paper. The same tactics are using in determining who gets laid off from companies, too.
@DirtyAndShaken - Unless you multiply those two negatives together.
This topic opened up a serious can of worms. There are some really ignorant comments on here. Not “ignorant” as in stupid or anything. Just uninformed.
@LadyValkyrie37 - Perfect lyric choice. I used to listen to that song a lot in highschool, but I never put too much thought into the lyrics.
that’s a tough call, because although it seems wrong to have to hire somebody because they’re black, the reality is that there are people out there who still try and REFUSE to hire people because they’re black. Black president or not, there are still people who would do that. if i was confident that all qualified Black people would be hired regardless of the fact that they are black, i would say eliminate affirmative action…but i really dont know.
“So African Americans have been given jobs and admitted to schools
because they were black even if sometimes they were less qualified.” >>>>THIS statement IS FALSE.
Affirmative action gave those African Americans who were/are qualified a chance to even be interviewed or have their application submitted & looked at.
Be careful what you wish for because it might come true……….it shouldn’t be removed. In 20 years, the Hispanic population will take over and we’re all going to need affirmative action Asian, Blacks, and Whites alike. Mexico will take over Califonira and Texas without a fight.
Something like Affirmative Action will never go away. Reason being, as long as there are differences and minorities, it will always appear that the minorities are not being treated as equals.
Does white on black racism still occur? Yes
Does black on white racism still occur? Yes
Light-skinned black on dark-skinned black? Yes
Dark-skinned on light? Yes
White on latino / Lation on white? Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
etc.
etc.
The only way to eliminate the appearance of racism is to eliminate the appearance of race, or at least for each individual to make a personal commitment to never judge by race and to not retaliate for perceived judgement because of race. If we can make the color of our skin a non-issue personally, then you can see change. The government can’t do it, we have to, individually.
No. There is no more need with affirmative action. Get rid of it.
(It would look really bad for Mr President there to continue to give extra benefits to blacks – that would be favoritism and discrimination against those not of his race on his part.)
Affirmative Action is STUPID!
To answer your question, probably not.
@huginn -
I think I should just have an auto-reply button that says I concur.
@BrownBarbie_2006 - i still think it’s reverse racism. i’m not white, i’m asian. and from a 3rd person point of view, it seems like racism to me. if you want to give these poor folks a chance, then why not give support to people based on income level and not race? there’ s poor white people that might need help too… right?
@HillaryKitten - ”affirmative action” should be renamed, “reverse racism” so that people can understand easier. lol
@greenbird321 - That’s funny because most of my black and biracial friends insist that no one member of their race is a speaker for all of them. Weren’t you just bitching about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for the same deal?
So long as white privilege exists, there ought to be affirmative action.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege
However, I feel it should be targeted more along income lines… which, happens to fall into minorities’ laps anyhow.
Was never much of a fan for affirmative action. At least it shouldn’t be based on race.
I think affirmative action is ridiculous. A friend of mine’s husband just tested for a job promotion- he tested higher, had more education, and was more qualifiied than the man who got the job. But they gave the other guy a job because he was black and they didn’t have any black people in a position that high up. That is very, very unfair. Sounds like now we’re discriminating against the well educated.
@SimplyPynki - yea, exactly…they are hate-mongerers…what’s your point?
@Gerald_Washington - let’s just hope that ‘change’ is a complete abolishment of AA…we need, like huginn and I have pointed out, more money being poured into inner-city schools and community programs in the ghetto. that way, all races that are impoverished will hopefully get the aid and education they need.
@Luvlystarr - No,actually that statement is very true. I was talking to a friend just yesterday that gives a perfect example. Her husband tested for a job, and tested higher than the other guy. He had more education than the other guy. He had more experience than the other guy. But the other guy was hired because he was black and they didn’t have any black people in that high of a position yet. So even though his test scores and everything were higher, he was still unable to advance, because they had to give the job to a less qualified person just because he was black. And you hear stories like that all the time.
@mooks_dayoo - That’s also true. But don’t you think a poor white person still has a better shot than a poor black person? I’m not making excuses, because I was taught that I had to be above and beyond for that very reason. However, having white skin is still a privilege in this country.
I say this having a white husband and an infant daughter who doesn’t look like she has a black mother at all. So, my view may be a bit different.
@faerieshadow - Is this what they told him is the case or is this what he assumed, then repeated to others in a frustrated rant? I’ve read your comments before, so I know you’re not off on some tangent here.
It bothered me when I would tell my white friends when I felt racial discrimination and they would go, “Oh, it’s probably something else.” It made me feel like shit. I don’t want to do the same to you (i.e. pretend that racism is some urban myth), but I just wanted to be sure.
Oh, and as for this “reverse racism” term. There is no such thing. Racism is just that. Pure and simple.
Affirmative Action in college admissions is unfair overall, especially in terms of the Asian “model minority”. AA only applies to certain minority groups. Asians are excluded because they are considered “overrepresented” in higher education. (Asians are also given the shaft in admissions to “gifted” public schools because of this. They lose out to white kids as well.) Should ANY student be held back from opportunity because of their race?
While I agree that there should be a more “level playing field” at this point, this should be based on socio-economics and not race. The leveling should not start at a college level. Kids need equal education far before they turn 18.
call it what you want, but affirmative action is racism. Yes I’m white, but I also work hard in school. Not only do I have to compete against people with high marks, but I also have to compete against other races. If whites were to receive priority like “affirmative action” there would be an outrage across the nation. I’m not racist (i have friends from various races and most certainly do not behave in a prejudice way toward them), but I think people should be judged on their quality and what they can bring to the table, not what a black person or a white person can bring to the table.
and now it’s official, we have an african american as president…i think it’s safe to say that in the picture, equality is here.
Affirmative action is stupid.
Here in CT (might be in other states, I don’t know), there is a TV show called the Challenge where a few selected seniors from a school go against another school in a Jeopardy type game. To get on the show for your school you have to try out. I was talking to a girl that made it and she said that she didn’t qualify but the ONLY reason she was picked is because she was a girl. Our school didn’t want to send out a team of 5 guys because they thought it might make them look bad, so instead we’re sending out a team of 4 guys and 1 girl. -_- Even the girl thinks it’s unfair
@faerieshadow - believe what you want. Ty
No, I feel that affirmative action has out lived its usefulness. It has become another element of reverse racism. It was meant to give minorities more opportunities but now they are able to get them on their own. I’m not sure that it was ever a good idea really, or it outlived its useful more than I thought. It has contributed to increased racism among all groups for a variety of reasons.
@BrownBarbie_2006 - Thanks for checking. As far as I know (though I can’t be sure, because I heard it from his wife, not him) they told him that they basically had to fill in their minority quota for legal reasons. It was a fire deptartment job, so I don’t know what the red tape is like.
There is definatly racial descrimination in my area- specifically against black people. Sometimes I’m so surprised by the genralizations people make around here, “well those black people…” AHH! You know? But I still don’t agree with affirmative action in principle…because I think, if a woman (or mexican, or whoever) gets a job, it should be because they are qualified, and recognized for their intellegence and what they have to offer the school, company, or whatever. Not because, “oh, you’re black.” It just seems like a huge insult to minorities in the first place. As if they are not capable on their own. I think Obama is a great example that a person in a minority group can do anything just as well as a white person.
There hasn’t been a need for affirmative action in years. It puts us competent white folk at a disadvantage >=[
I believe so.
simply stated, NO
Affirmative action is not just for Black people, it is also for women and in the case of Universities for students from other countries as well.
It should have ended before Obama and it should be ended now.
We need affirmative action to be based on socio-economic status, not pure race. There’s plenty of super poor white people who haven’t had the chances that some wealthy racial minorities have had.
@greenbird321 -
I thought I was fairly straight forward with my point, but I’ll take another swing at it for ya.
We are not to believe the Rev. JJ nor Al Sharpie because they do not speak for all black people, and you know because you are black and they do not speak for you…
but…
We’re supposed to take your word that black Americans no longer need AA because you’re black so you know…
Thereby…
Making YOURSELF the speaker for all of Black America since “Black America” is monolithic in it’s thoughts just like White America…
Except…
Oh wait… It isn’t.
So… Your opinion is just your opinion just like Rev. JJ or Al on the status of Black America.
Seein’ the connection here?
Th e plural of anecdote is not data, and the DATA shows that AA is probably still needed.
@SimplyPynki - no, I don’t speak for all black people…but I know firsthand, and anyone who has seen it firsthand and I know that everyone has opportunities…we just need to put more money into inner-city schools and communities, so that they can TAKE those opportunities, and have people who care whether or not they take them. AA is ridiculous, unnecessary, and disrespectful to black people, because the problem is not only present for black people in the ghetto, but for white, asian, and hispanic people living in the same circumstances.
@j_flo_in_TX - exactly!
@greenbird321 -
But… other than the white guys all of THOSE people you mentioned ARE covered by AA.
@SimplyPynki - and what about the white people? they need it just as much, if not more, because: why are we hiring people who are not as qualified for jobs, based solely on race? it is discriminatory and wrong, and lowering the standards of the job market and many companies.
I believe we are all equal now and getting more and more everyday.I do not believe that white people owe minorities anything anymore.I think we should be helping all colors of the uneducated and poor.We should never stop doing that no matter what is going on.
No, it’s not fair to the “rich-white” kids who want to apply to university and get denied because a “minority” has no $$ and a lower GPA/SAT than the rich white kid. Not fair at all if universities accept by income.
Many people will probably say yes. However, I think we’ve gone overboard on Affirmative Action a while back.
My dad was a victim of Affirmative Action back in the ’80s when he was declined a job because they had to keep their employees “balanced.” He ended up being offered the job a couple of months later when the other person gave up and quit. He’s been there ever since.
@Kestryl - first response and all we get is an oh brother. what are your thoughts? share please
Honestly I find affirmative action inherently racist, in that it assumes all black people must be poor and uneducated and all white people must be rich and have come from great schools. If it were based on socioeconomic status then it would actually do what it’s intended to do.
@mooks_dayoo - I agree. Anything designed to make up for things should have a set end date. For instance, we helped with Hurricane Katrina to make up for God’s actions but when something happend somewhere else we helped them, not ignored them because of soemthing that happened previously. I don’t like that college apps ask for race either. My boyfriend is from Brazil. Now think about that, he’s NOT hispanic. he does not speak Spanish and will yell if you say they speak Spanish in Brazil. What does he put down for race? He’s not caucasian, african, so why does this question exsist? To track how many whites go to college? Well there’s quite a few to go to college, so should we deny them access based on race? I’d rather have a doctor who was valedictorian based on his grades rather than based on which race hadn’t been valedictorian in awhile.
@greenbird321 - But… White poor guys still have it better than poor guys or any other color. I mean, just based on census information. You can look it up if you don’t believe me. And dudes still have it better than women.
It’s never great when anyone is struggling for food or shelter. I can’t bring myself to feel bad for the group that has, socio-economically, the most power. Even when poor.
No.
@SimplyPynki - nope nope…the tables have been turning, and the bias is against white people…I know, because my husband has been passed over for jobs he’s been more qualified for, for minorities. it’s not fair, and it’s a DETRIMENT to the job industry to hire anyone who is less qualified, no matter their race.
Affirmative action is basically telling minorities that they can’t get anywhere in life without the government’s help. That does nothing to help them at all, and is racist against whites. Of course, the minorities won’t give it up without a fight.
A friend of mine can’t get a scholarship that he wants because he’s not a minority and he’s not poor. What happened to scholarships based on merit?
@greenbird321 -
What does that have to do with white men STATISTICALLY making more than any one else in the same jobs?
Once again, the plural of anecdote is not data.
And, as hard as it is to believe, maybe, they just liked the other person better regardless of educational background. That happens too.
@saxy_grrl -
If he’s not poor why does he need a scholarship? That’s what scholarships are FOR. POOR peeps who can’t afford it on their own.
@SimplyPynki - ah, all I’m saying is…black people, and other minorities, are trying to reap benefits they don’t deserve over other people. we need to implement change in the community and in the inner-city school systems…that’s the level that determines success in the rest of your life.
@SimplyPynki - He’s not in poverty, but his parents only make just over the cut-off for the scholarship he was looking at, hence, he was disqualified. I think he should get a scholarship because he works his ass off in all of his classes to get the grades that he makes, besides working two jobs and tutoring other students to make ends meet.
POOR people should work multiple jobs and save if they want education, and they should get good grades so that they merit a scholarship. Someone shouldn’t just get a scholarship because they are poor or because they have darker skin.
Affirmative action is racism and deteriorates property rights. It creates more racism and resentment.
white women are actually the ones who benefited most from affirmative action…
EVERY child in America should have food, shelter, clothing, and a FREE education. Enough Said
No. There never was.