January 29, 2009
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Obama and Large Government
President Obama has presented his economic plan to help the U.S. out of a recession. It just passed the House and cost $825 billion. Here is the link: Link
Not one Republican voted for it in the House and some Democrats voted against the measure too.
It is interesting as we have a new president that a discussion is going on about the best way to get the economy going.
Obama’s plan will greatly increase the size of government. Some of the Republicans are saying that we should be giving tax breaks. There are others that suggest we would probably be best if we left everything alone and let the economy recover by itself.
What is the best way to help the American economy, increased government spending or tax breaks?
Comments (126)
The best way to get the economy going is to spend more money on things we don’t need.
Better management of funds by govt. and big business (for example, not having a bank use bailout money to buy a fany jet for it’s high-ranking corporate execs.) and lowering taxes unilaterally. Lower taxes for us means we have more to spend (directly effecting the economy) and lower taxes for buisnesses affords them not to have to keep cutting jobs.
Never having been in politics, I don’t know a lot about how to fix the economy. But it seems like spending that much money would set us back instead of bring us forward.
Monetary policy: stop the printing press.
Remove current market restrictions to let the market recover.
Includes tax breaks, yeah, but also tariffs, etc.
Legalize marijuana, blah blah.
Gov’t spending money on improving itself doesn’t seem like such a bad idea to me. But I don’t know if that will do what Obama hopes; I think there’s actually only so much the gov’t can do about the market outside of regulating so that abuses that happened before don’t happen again.
Certainly NOT big government. That’s exactly what our Founding Fathers fought against and DIDN’T want. If we left things alone, I think they’d muddle out. As it is, we’re doing the EXACTT same thing that led to the Great Depression now. Know your history..seems that Pres. Obama’s expensive education wasn’t all that great. Oh yeah. That’s right. he doesn’t know American history does he?
Tax breaks.
If the government could solve our issues by spending MORE and MORE of our money, then we wouldn’t be in the crap load of mess we are in now. How much do we need to be taxed to solve our ailments?? GET RID OF THE FED!!
Probably the governmental spending.
Always less Gov! But since the money the Gov has is OUR money on loan, why should they spend it for what THEY want. That has never made any sense to me.$825 Billion in spending won’t help unless it is given back to the people. The PEOPLE will get the economy going again when they have their money back to spend
Tax breaks.
I mean, just think about it. It’s the businesses that employ the very people the government is giving money to. If we tax the businesses less they can pay their employees more and we won’t have to give them that money.
But if we tax businesses more that means they have to pay people less and there will ultimately be less jobs.
I wrote a post about this one or two posts ago . . .
@ShamelesslyRed - Right on
increased government spending in areas that will encourage job growth which is what obama is trying to do, the tax breaks are a short term solution
A little bit of both. Create the programs to make the jobs so that when we get that paycheck we can afford to go buy stuff so that they have to make stuff faster and need to hire more people to do it.
Tax breaks! Show me the last country who’s economy thrived on big spending! I’m still trying to figure out what $680 billion in television converter coupons is going to do for the economy!
Less government. Much less government. Tax breaks for sure. A big government is never a good thing, and is not worth the price.
Government staying the fuck away from me and my business.
ryc: Well, make sure it’s funny, okay?
@CrunchyMountainMomma - First of all, our “founding fathers” didn’t all agree on size of government, so it’s probably not best to lump them all together. We can “let things alone” and, eventually, things will even out, but we don’t have the time or resources for laissez faire economics right now, like Keynes once said, “in the long-run we’re all dead.”
Looks like you’re the one who needs to brush up on her American history.
With that being said, I’m really not sure how to jump start the economy. To everyone who is saying “smaller government” and “less regulation” I would argue that one of the main reasons we’re in the mess we are is because of all of those banks that weren’t regulated very well and ended up going under do, in large part, to their own greed. I don’t know if the bailout will help…but I’m almost convinced that tax breaks won’t, we still have the Bush tax cuts anyway. Who knows? I’ve given up on predicting.
Actually I have to agree with Rush Limbaugh on this one. Here is the link if anyone wants to check it out. Ithought it was the most rational idea yet.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123318906638926749.html
Government won’t solve the problem because government IS the problem. Or a huge part of it anyway.
I say less government. More tax breaks.
OBAMA
Although as a traditional liberal I see no harm in, e.g., social welfare programs, what bothers me about this is the HUGE amount of government money being redirected to private companies because of their own fiscal irresponsibility.
Creating new government jobs = good. Doing it with my tax money = iffy. Giving my tax money to irresponsible private parties = NO BUENO!
Not sure on this question but I could use the money.
@YossariansWingman - Our Constitution was written the way it was because the decision was made to implement smaller governmental control. Federalist papers and anti-Federalist papers. Size of government was what held up the ratification of the Constitution. Smaller government won. In the past, the recessions that we’ve allowed to ride out without government programs have evened out. The programs implemented in the 20s threw us into a tail spin.
I DO know my US history.
But I will agre with you on greed. The housing crisis was pure greed. And I think from all I’ve seen and personal experience with mortgage brokers that it’s what really threw us into the biggest crisis this time.
How many days till the next election? I wonder how many people are wishing that they didn’t vote for him now that they see him in action?
Great way to “unite” the country. Obama’s fantasy wont come true unfortunately. He is a liberal and appeaser through and through. He does not have the capability or the integrity to unite.
This is what happens when you only have bad choices to decide between. It’s harder to mop up after some idiots than others. It’ll take at least 4 years to fix the mess GWB “let” happen.
Personally, I favor large government and I think Obama is making the right decision. Tax break do not help the economy. If the government doesn’t have any money coming in, they cannot repay their debts. This was shown during the Clinton administration where he raised the taxes for the wealthy and the economy fixed itself.
Tax breaks might help some, I think we should try to let the economy rebuild itself. I mean where is all this money coming from? (um I don’t know our taxes maybe?!)
George Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
History says high taxes and big government stifle economy… so here we go again. JFK, Regan, and Bush cut taxes. “The tax cut is good for long-run growth,” said James Tobin an economc adviser to JFK. I suspect any Obama tax cuts are symbolic and intended to be short lived.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - I fear that our founding documents mean little to our new President.
If America wasn’t living on credit all the time, they wouldn’t even be in this whole mess. America should do something about the whole buy now – pay later mentality
@Blue_Dragon_Designs - That statement is as amusing as the whole euphoria by people thinking he’ll make everything right in an instant was before. Let him work for a year or two and THEN try to see if he did go the right or the wrong way. America’s economy is royally fucked and no one knows what will eventually help best.
@Tiny_Tim_01 - I agree with you that the new President disregards the Constitution.
I don’t know. I don’t fully understand everything & can’t say what!
Sorry.
I’m Canadian & we’re going through the same thing. I really should research & try to understand everything….
Tax breaks. Only time will heal the economy, though.
Big Government = Bad. I’d rather live somewhere else, but all the rest of the “civilized” world has big government, too! WTF?
@you_were_the_song_all_along - Do you believe that just because somebody happens to have done well for themselves and become wealthy that they deserve to be taxed more? I mean, how dare they get a good education and have a little ambition, right?
The economy scares me right now. They are making cuts to schools in my state. It’s funny because they say education is the most important thing, but in time of economic crisis it is the first to go. I’m in college right now and I am scared I won’t be able to finish because I won’t be able to afford it. Loans are becoming harder to get and scholarships are disappearing. One thing that should be looked at is to stop sending jobs overseas. Yeah, it’s cheaper for those companies, but not for our countries economy overall. Car companies are going under because people can’t afford to buy them because they are losing their jobs.
Banks should be regulated. I have heard so many stories about people getting charged by a bank for nonsense things that they had no idea they were being charged for. Bank owners are greedy and will do anything to get money out of people.
@silence_of_words - Up until the early 1913 our currency was actually backed by gold and silver, since the Federal Reserve was instituted and we went down the path of Fiat currency our inflation rate over that time has been 1300%. The things going on now will increase the need for more unbacked currency… we will likely see hyper-inflation.
Yes, living on credit and our economic experiment with Fiat currency will “come home to roost”.
@Dare2BDiferentt – Only if it’s consumers spending the money. Not BIG GOVERNMENT.
Tax Cuts and less government spending. Obama and the Democrats haven’t introduced a stimulus package as much as they’ve introduced a list of pork barrel legislation.
So much for “Change.”
@xxmissbettyxx - I believe that it is their civic duty to help those who can’t help themselves, and that sharing just a tiny amount of their money is the least they can do for society.
@Blue_Dragon_Designs – Spread the word
tax breaks
This thread gives me a headache. Next time could you preface your question by asking who has ever taken a micro or macro (or both) economics course, or hopefully further classes on the topic? Listening to two sides spit up rhetoric that in many places is being misstated because the person doesn’t understand the concepts behind the principles is nauseating. This blog has become a celebration of ignorance. I would love to see an actual intellectual discussion on supply-side economics vs either a new keynesian or neo-keynesian approach, but that might be asking too much of your readers.
tax breaks have historically not worked
I say let’s give Obama’s plan a chance, and if it fails, it won’t have made much difference in what the economy was already doing
after all that, let the economy fix itself
@FreeSpiritxWriter - free trade economy is theoretically the best thing that can happen for the world.
It keeps our costs down, even if people don’t have jobs, they can continue to purchase cheap products that come from other countries.
If we protected out jobs then the costs would remain higher and then everyone would complain about how they can’t afford things.
Say we pay more for resources and labor as compared to other countries, if we buy our own stuff then the consumers pay more. If we buy imported goods then the costs are cheaper for everyone.
Our economy collapsed because of inflated spending practices. Inflated spending practices are possible when banks make it too easy to get a loan and governments subsidize products, which can also include loans.
One thing that we forgot about the great depression is that it went on so long because the government inflated itself. Aside from 9-11, the great depression saw such huge federal expansion that it kept the economy from recovering and kept the people more dependent on the government.
Expanding government liability is exactly with Bush did, this is exactly what Obama is doing. Yet, we think it is going to make things better for us – when the reality is, it will eventually make things much much worse.
Give us consumers tax breaks so we could use the money to buy more merchandise!
I think a trillion-dollar debt isn’t enough for our country – let’s add on a few billion more!
I don’t know what would actually help us, but I know that less government and less tax is better all the way around.
@psybels - How can people but these cheap things when they don’t have a job that gives them the income to buy those things? I understand that it’s cheaper… but it seems that every single job is being sent over seas. I was watching the news last night and there was a special on the homeless and how they used to have a home and a job. But it was all taken away from them. It also showed statistics on how the number of homeless people has increased tremendously over the past year. Now, tell me again, How can people buy these cheap things if they don’t even have an income to keep their own home?
@you_were_the_song_all_along - People should give to charity or help the less fortunate of their own volition, not because Big Brother comes along and sticks his hand in your pocket. If the government didn’t take so much of my money out of every paycheck, I could afford to give to worthy causes instead of paying for welfare crack whores. Also, I don’t qualify for government medical assistance, so why should I be paying for Medicare that I can’t use? Why should I be paying for everybody else to go to the hospital, when nobody’s paying my bills for me? And yet, they take so much money from me in the form of “taxes” that if I broke my leg today I’d have to splint it myself and hope to god that it heals correctly, because I can’t afford medical bills.
Government today is screwed up, and this stupid Obama guy is going to make it worse. But everybody just had to vote for “Hope!” and “Change!”, even though nobody knew what he was talking about when he used those words. Well, he’s changing things now, and obviously it’s not going to go well. Good luck, America. See you at the crossroads.
@UnworthyofHisgrace - Couldn’t have said it better!
@RaVnR - You should really look into the part private companies play on our economy and job creation. They are responsible for 80% of the jobs created in this country, NOT the government. Money by way of tax cuts doesn’t necessarily go to those who are irresponsible. You’re talking about money from a bail out, totally different than tax breaks, which the high, high majority of us Conservatives were against in the first place. Tax breaks would give my husband and I, small business owners, a chance to hire help and employ more people. Paying the amount of money we do in taxes keep us from beng able to do so. Government jobs would only be a temporary fix and create further dependence on the government.
Oh, and a HUGE amount of money in this ‘stimulus’ package ISN’T going to private companies – $650 Billion is going for foolish programs such as television receiver coupons, while less than $50 Million will be going to private businesses by way of tax cuts. Tell me again how making sure people can still watch cartoons will stimulate our economy?
@Blue_Dragon_Designs - Not enough. Kool-Aid is still running rampant, and I am willing to bet those that are so high on Obama don’t even know what’s going on. People don’t pay attention for the most part. My co-workers make my head spin. Of the 350 people I work with, I only know of 7 so far who know who Nancy Pelosi is.
I am counting the days until we can work on our Congress.
@you_were_the_song_all_along - But creating more debt is going to help us pay our debt? That’s… uh… logical.
@whataboutbahb - As I mentioned in another comment, I’m hard pressed to even find more than 7 co-workers (of the 300 something I work with) that even know who Nancy Pelosi is… and you want them to know something about economics?
This is one of a number of ways to help the economy. It took a continued effort to drive us into this downturn and it will take a continued effort to get us out.
I personally would rather see a larger govt. with more federal workers than bailouts to Wall St. that can hire and fire at will and give ridiculous bonuses.
Tax cuts don’t do much imho. People just curb their spending. The connection to actual stimulus isnt’ there.
Quit giving bailouts and corporate welfare to companies that end up exporting jobs overseas. Tell them that if they want financial help that they should stop exporting jobs. For example, GM and the other car companies should have been told “hey you’re not getting cash unless 1) you stop exporting jobs, 2) you start producing more hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles, 3) hire more U.S. citizens.”
That alone would’ve boosted the economy.
We need to give corporations tax breaks to get manufacturing back in this country . What good does it do to tax a business so high they leave? We don’t benefit that way.
I am sure that concessions will be made but we have to unfortunately spend money to get the economy back on track. I don’t think that we will see immediate benefits and we need to make sure that the same mistakes are not made with this money as the last release under BUSH!
I think they outta split the money up among all the legal citizens of the US. Give us each $100k and we’ll get the economy back going. Guaranteed! Plus, it’d be FAIR! Give $100k to a millionaire and it’s a drop in the hat, but to some family that is below poverty line, it’s a windfall. Of course, the government would have to lock prices at current rates around the country so prices would not skyrocket to take advantage.
Tax breaks. Have we not learned from the past stimulus packages of the past. If this keeps up a marginal tax rate of 60% or higher can’t be far off. As to the previous comment about stop the printing press on money, amen. Massive inflation is right around the corner if this none sense does not stop.
@YossariansWingman - havent we discussed before?? i think i recognize the pic,,, but not the name,,, if it was you,,,
hahahahaha,,, you havent given up on the hope some of the riches taxes will be directed to your pocket,,, have you,,,,
tax breaks do in fact help,,, it is hard to tell and no,,, they dont really help under the current circumstances,,,, they do, but they dont,,, all money saved goes directly to china,,,,
if your are still under the impression the us has any kind of economy,,, id appreciate if you could share your sources with me,,,, better yet,,,, point one out,,,,
taxing people will not create an economy,,, only destroy it faster,,,
bail outs will also serve to destroy it faster,,, like i said,,, straight to china,,,
what we can do??? well for one thing well starve half to death before anyone ever admits it ,,, it appears,,,,
i know the answer,,, ive posted it,,, its way too late now,,,, no way to fix the economy on a dime,,,,, not at this point,,, things will get worse,, a lot worse,,, there will be no,,, rich to tax and fund you,,,,
you better start thinking of a more reasonable solution,,, at least for yourself,,,
hahahahahaha,,, not a penny of ears’ ideas have you in mind….
unless you are a close personal friend,,,,, are you?
@Billy_Gnosis2008 -I agree but we have to stop over taxing corporations!!! Get the jobs back here!!!
I believe the best way is to just ride out the storm doing nothing. If you have to do something cutting taxes might help.
I think doing nothing is dangerous, especially in the short term. It certainly won’t allow for the markets to adjust in just eight years, so I can’t see any president aspiring to do just that. There’s long term appeal, but my gauge on reality thinks it won’t happen.
Tax breaks are an interesting subject, but my guess is that they would benefit the upper minority portion of America’s economy substantially more than the majority rest. So, being that my hypothesis is correct, you’d see a lot more powerful businesses, but a lot more issues with things like mortgage, credit, etc.
So as of now, what appears rational to me is this stimulus plan, but it’s risky. I do like the investment in alternative energy at least. But if the government really wanted to give the economy a good kick, they could go for the controversial ideas. Someone mentioned legalizing, regulating, and taxing marijuana, and there’s nothing but government cuts and profit in that idea.
-David
People hear “economy is crashing” or some such… and think they have to save their money, so they stop spending. That is why the economy is falling so quickly and so horribly. People need to stop reserving their money and start spending it… its the only way to keep money flowing. So either way, both will work.
Government spending, means money is flowing. Tax breaks means more money in consumer hands, which will give them more of a reason to spend.
the best way to help America is leave those things to the people that can solve it.
kick out anybody there for their own, support those and what u believe in and don’t back down unless u learn better
The economy is said to be bad, but from where did the government come up with $825 BILLION? That’s not pocket change!
Less government. Tax breaks.
@you_were_the_song_all_along - The problem is that there are WAY MORE people that WON’T help themselves than those who ”can’t.”
You stated: “Tax break do not help the economy…” Where in the heck did you come up with that one?! I paid over $25000 (that’s TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS) in taxes last year. I didn’t got to school, work hard, go back to school, better myself and become the best employee I could be just so I can do my “civic duty” and reward some dead-beat for collecting a welfare check. If I WANT to give some of my money away..and believe me I do, that’s one thing, but to tell me it’s my “duty?!” Forget it.
Give me a tax break and put more money in my pocket and I’ll spend the crap out of it…THAT helps the economy!
It’s proven historically that lower taxes stimulate the economy. Excessive taxation creates disincentives to productivity and innovation, because it’s like a penalty for success.
In America’s system, the most successful are the ones who pay through the nose on taxes, when they are the very ones who could otherwise do all the spending, creating, producing and hiring that would get us out of recession. Instead, because of outrageous taxes, they can’t afford to do that at the rate they could.
I wish more Americans would read economists and take a basic economics course that includes reading works from Von Mises, Hayek, Bastiat, Smith; and also discusses the perils of buying into and adopting Keynesian economics (which is what the WH has done for decades).
I also need to do a post about the minimum wage, because I think most people don’t realize it hurts the very people it’s intended to help. Blah. Thanks for provoking me to think about this again. :p Distracting.
tax breaks
give the people who actually make the country run a chance to get back on their feet.
@fivepts - Nicely said. It’s easy for those who aren’t working hard just to pay the gross amount of taxes to say ‘tax cuts won’t work’ and ‘social programs are the answer’. If taxes are cut, where will they get their payday?
it’s funny how Obama wanted the Republicans to vote on the bailout, so that when it fails and the banks have to be nationalized, he could be like, “Well we were all behind it!” haha…
anyway, to help the economy, we need to help big business. personal tax rebates and refunds are a short term plan that will not help.
Came across your page and wanted to say hello. I enjoyed reading your articles.
Tax cuts are needed to help my industry. Gov’t spending might help in the long run, but a lot of companies won’t be around in the long run. I’m OK with certain types of gov’t spending. I think we should spend even more on infrastructure. Yes, there’s a crisis. But that’s no excuse for trying to pass the bill as it currently stands. We need targeted spending, not a random wish list from Dems who have missed being in power.
The government has no place dabbling in the market. Keynesian economics is what screwed our economy over. Remember all the promises about the first stimulus plan? Yeah…I can see all the jobs that created
How it turned things around and stimulated the economy… *cough*
Free market is best for the economy. It can right itself in time when poor choices are made and the economy crashes. FDR prolonged the Great Depression with his spending (New Deal) and our economy was ONLY saved by World War II.
Now I’m not saying the answer is to go to war. But big government spending? That will only prolong a depression…which seems is where we’re heading. Tax cuts in the long run will help. We need to allow corporations like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to die because of their mismanagement – NOT bail them out. And then let the free market right itself. If we have to tighten our belts for a few years because of all this, then so be it.
no clue, I just need to pay less for college… I can’t keep this up -_-
I really don’t think tax cuts are the way to go, but neither is a ton of extra spending unless it is going to good investments.
We need to do away with pork projects and cut back on frivolous spending in government institutions. It wastes several hundred billion dollars a year.
Our government is one of the most wasteful organizations in the world and I don’t see any real changes ever coming because of the multiple layers of stifling bureaucracy and due to the fact that no one wants to change the way things are because of personal greed.
I don’t believe that more tax cuts would work. After all, it hasn’t worked for the past 6 or so years, why would it all of a sudden start working now?
Giving ppl money will make them like you. So when ppl offer tax breaks as a solution I become extremely suspicious. It feels like they are bribing me into blind contentment. But its so fun spending the money!
I don’t think the Democrats or the Republicans are doing much for the economy, or the nation in general. Divided by party lines though most people are, the actual policies implemented by Bush, Clinton G.W. Bush, and now Obama are all very similar. Both parties have spent too much, and expanded governmental control.
I’m a firm believer that the less government is involved, the better. We’ve tried the opposite for decades now, and it hasn’t worked. Why not try the opposite?
How I’d fix the mess:
Eliminate the federal income tax altogether. It began as a temporary 1% tax to fund World War II, and has spiraled out of control.
Privatize the educational system. The government does everything badly, so why let them do one of the most important things of all? They ought to pay for children whose family’s can’t afford schooling, but should not be running the schools.
Stop pouring money into failing institutions. For once let’s let market forces work unfettered. The poorly run companies will fail, better ones will replace them.
In general, the governments only roles ought to be national defense, regulation of industry (including much tighter regulation on the banking industry, for starters), and basic social welfare.
@SecretNeverTold -
I wish colleges offered courses that offered a history of the different schools of economic thought (maybe some do, mine didn’t). I don’t remember even hearing Von Mises or Hayek mentioned once during microeconomics or macroeconomics, which especially in the case of Hayek (hopefully he was at least mentioned in the microeconomics class and I just have a piss poor memory) is akin to trying to teach liberal democracy without mentioning Rosseau.
“and also discusses the perils of buying into and adopting Keynesian economics (which is what the WH has done for decades).”
Just to address the U.S. specially, since around the 80′s the fed and greenspan have taken a more laissez-faire approach then in the previous few decades. This economic crisis has caused somewhat of a back-lash though (see:Krugman and Stiglitz), whether warranted or not. Modern day mainstream economic thought is mostly the neoclassical synthesis- more of a neoclassical approach for microeconomics, more of a keynesian for macroeconomics.
Government spending definitely does NOT help the economy. When you drain the rich of their money, they’re not going to want to spend it on anything, and may even put it in tax shelters. Instead of stimulating the economy, making the government larger would, in essence, sink it even further.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - I agree with you.
I LEARNED THIS IN ECON!!!! It’s government spending because that’s direct money going into the economy. Tax breaks aren’t as effective because of people’s marginal propensity to save, so there’s all these SAVINGS going on when you get a tax break……..and saving money does not help the economy. Govt spending is the best way to go.
All I know is that under Bush The Republicans got all the tax breaks those greedy bastards could possibly want and the economy hit the skids!
So much for their brainless ideas.
i’ll tell you what it’s not: increased govt spending
repeal the fed reserve act, enable the treasury to print currency again per the constitution. Step 3, get invaded by the other countries.
@eMiLy72tUNG - ahaha agreed
wasn’t bush using tax breaks for the last 8 years? lol so says the daily show
if so, then, we obviously need something better 
Neither, not if you are talking about what the best way is to accomplish it that is *also* the best for the average person.
They sure have made up their minds not to cooperate with or make it easy for Obama haven’t they.
Tax break. If the government spends more money, then we’ll just be more and more in debt. The country will be in debt to others, while the people will be in debt to the government.
Whatever money is dished out now will be money we will end up owing. Fun!
What I find ironic is that, during his campaign, Pres. Obama kept referring to how much we spent on the war in Iraq ($10B per month?). Assuming the $10B per month figure, we could stay there for the next 6 or 7 years and still not spend as much as what’s included in this “stimulus plan.” Maybe the real issue wasn’t the amount of money, then, but how it was being spent?
I’d love to see BUSINESS tax breaks. Will they get abused? In some cases, yes. However, who do you think hires people and creates jobs? It’s the “rich” business owners. The more they have to spend, the easier it is to create jobs. At least that’s my theory.
Borrowing more money or printing new cash never made sense to me. The more money we have in circulation, the more inflation increases in order to even things out again (since, you wouldn’t want more people to have access to larger amounts of money, hence more purchasing ability, but the same supply of products potentially running out sooner). By the time tax cuts make any kind of difference, it might not matter due to the added inflation.
Also, pay off the national debt FIRST. I’ve heard about how much we’re going to spend, but not how it will be paid back. Are they planning for the second part ahead of time? If we already have over $10 trillion in debt, that’s accruing lots of interest, meaning less money left in the overall federal budget.
It’s just a mess. The best thing would probably be to declare a “separation of business and state,” let companies and entrepreneurs do their thing, and before you know it, the economy would probably recover on its own, without so much government interference.
leave it all alone and let it go through its cycle even though that can be scary to us.
Also, I think it’s funny that you titled it “large government” because term is usually “big government”.
im guessing it could fix itself… but im not really sure. economics and politics are both things i dont understand very much or care about.
@dailyconstruct - You don’t know that. I can’t believe how negative some of you people are. How long has the man been President? a little over a week? I bet you voted for George Bush.
@soul_survivor - and I bet you voted for Obama. But hey, I didn’t hear anything about the Bush Bashing from the beginning of his Presidency to his end, and beyond.
The man has been President for a week or so now, and he has set some very dangerous precedents.
Not everyone is a happy, go lucky, liberal in a fantasy, I love sex and drugs, world.
I’m really happy when Obama spends 150 million on an inauguration, the most expense in history or wants to spend 45 million on bike trails or another several hundred million for scientists at the NSF to sit around an watch porn, while the Coast Guard gets $400,000. Great use of tax-payer money under the excuse of a stimulus.
Obama is not my savior. Those who voted for him will hate him more at the end of his Presidency than they ever hated George W. Bush.
The government needs to streamline itself first (getting rid of unecessary spending and worthless bills, and have their workers voluntarily take less pay) so that when they go out to try to help things (which I’m not a big believer of stimulus plans or bailouts…) that they’re not taking steps toward a bad place. Because it devalues the dollar and we won’t be able to borrow forever.
I LIKE middle of the road plans. I personally like small government over big government, but I acknowledge that a medium sized government’s probably the best idea at this point in time.
What they should actually do, is help the states come up with some sort of plan of maintaining some sort of order…and some way to responsibly work on their debt now. Lend Washington’s greatest minds to that, so that we won’t find ourselves in some sort of Mad Max situation because our states are so broke that they can’t do anything anymore.
Working on debt forgiveness in this country would probably be one of the most fundementally helpful things we could do.
Other than that, we nee to focus on helping our society become less dependent on cars…working to make our economy slightly more localized than it has been (the boom of the local food movement is an example of what we can do that’ll actually grow instead of shrinking if we do it right).
Distance and global are no longer options until we can settle how we are at home FIRST. Being able to walk, bike, or take some sort of mass transit to work is a MUST right now. Local food movements can provide jobs (not to mention, cheaper food) as well as things like…improving our rail system could provide new jobs…which would pay for themselves faster than most other ideas.
Stuff like this is what they need to look to. They’re already experimenting with alternative energy, although, I’m not sure that they’ve got the right ideas there either…
*Sigh* Sadly, I don’t think this new administration will actually do any of the things I’ve mentioned…and I think stuff like that’d have a better chance at fixing our economy than some stimulus plan with whole bunch of irrelevant and unrelated stuff tacked to it.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - The proposed economic bale out is exactly what pulled us out of the Great Depression. The question that remains is will it work now? As for the founding father’s we have numerous examples of presidents throughout time that increased the size of government. Even honest Abe in effect increased the size of government by abolishing slavery. Roosevelt’s new deal stopped the sinking ship. Big government can work, as long as its used to fix the situation, ensure that the economic giants don’t abuse their freedoms, and put money in our pockets. The plan is to improve education, infastructure, and hell the tax breaks are fairly large. Obama’s plan is to create and enhance the sustainability of our country. With this plan, utility companies have incentive to fix a faulty system components in use are an average age of 30 to 60 years. That means less money companies have to pay for repairs; the sytem is sustainable again. If we believe in trickle down economy these savings will mean savings on our bills and money in the pockets for workers.
@mastermind1185 - Roosevelt’s New Deal made the hole in the ship larger. All this is going to do is give Big Brother a bigger thumb to put on us. The majority of the money to be spent from this program is all on government programs. How’s that going to help ME? Not to mention the fact that bailout proposed just added $3000 dollars to my taxes. How does that help me? How does 650 million dollars for digital television converters helps me? I’ll be able to watch a television I can’t afford to turn on. 400 million for global warming research? How does that help me? Or the 350 million proposed to give to the CDC to help combat sexually transmited disease?
If more government spending is the answer, please tell my why California is issuing IOUs to people? Or that they won’t issue state tax return checks to people because they(the state) is afraid will be cashed? Win the lottery in California. Will you get the money? Probably not. Big government and more government spending is NOT the answer.
Maybe if President Obama spent a little less than 172 million on his coronation? Or how about if he spent less than 400,000 dollars to redecorate his office.
idk but it seems like we’re becoming more socialist everyday. i dont like it. id like to selfishly keep my money for me and mine thank you very much. it might offend people to say this but i dont want to pay for other peoples health care.
I think the government should give money to the people who need it. The ones that have lost their jobs, their homes, their cars….
Do as FDR did.
How is fixing our dilapidated infrastructure “big government”. Big government is the government controlling people’s lives, not taking our money and providing basic services that are required for commerce to operate. I’m sure there’s some spending in that bill that doesn’t go to roads, schools, power systems, internet service etc. but I doubt it accounts for much of the cost.
Tax cuts will likely be saved whereas money made from jobs performed by people that can’t find work will likely be spent on food, shelter, clothes and some basic non necesities. I know if I get a job out of this plan I’m paying off my college loans so technically the government would just be paying itself and the public would be getting improved services. Idealy they should be cutting funding from government programs we don’t need to pay for these programs that we have needed for a while but haven’t funded for some reason. I would say greatly reduce the military’s budget but that’s the peacenic in me talking.
@mastermind1185 - In 1940, after FDR supposedly “pulled us out of the Depression”, the unemployment rate was 14.5 %. The rest of the world had pulled out of the Depression about seven years before the U.S. FDR prolonged the Depression with his tinkering.
Obama’s partisan pork-barrel bill is all about paybacks to Democratic constituencies. History has showed that tax cuts are the answer to recessions (e.g., Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton). The only thing about the Obama plan that is shovel-ready is the B.S. The Republican plan will have an impact in 2010 or before.
@DJ__x - FDR stole many of his proposals from Hitler. His economist, Keynes was an idiot when it came to understanding capitalism so that didn’t help either.
Decrease government spending & lower taxes. Money that goes to the government can’t help the economy. It’s a drain on the economy.
I know I have commented before but I just want to provide an place where people can go to see more about the stimulus package. If anyone wants ( I would love it if you did) to have more information on the package and a breakdown of where the money will be spent I have started a xanga entry that provides a breakdown and some commentary. Please see my page.
Something about Obama makes me VERY nervous. Don’t get me wrong, I hated Bush, but what happened with Bush? Using 9/11 he had a free ticket to do anything he wanted.
Then he was hated.
Now Obama riding the Bush-hate has a free ticket to do anything he wants?
Knee jerk yes, the emotional new presidential directives feel great, Oooh stem cells! Ooooh Guantanamo! But 825 billion dollars?
I don’t see any checks and balances here. It feels really really wrong and people are just too gung ho and joyous for no reason.
I sure hope I’m wrong.
@Monastro - I agree.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - That TV tuner thing kills me. I don’t watch TV, EVER. Why am I paying for that shit?
I have wondered for years how our economy could possibly survive when all the products we buy come from China or somewhere else. Every dollar that is spent on a foreign product supports their economy. Why don’t we have some tariffs to protect the American companies? Why are we building up China, India, Mexico and even Vietnam’s economy? Handing out more money cannot possible solve this problem. It will only put us deeper into debt and make us weaker. India built their economy by developing their own companies. It was not a quick fix, but a real cure.
@MereBenjimon - I read a comment today that stated: “All the people that voted for Obama will end up hating him at the end of four years more than they ever hated George Bush.” I’d say he’s off to a good start.
Even crazier? The House took up the Digital Transition debat AGAIN today! Who cares if people have digital TV will families are killing each other and committing suicide because they can’t pay their bills!? What is wrong with our country and our lawmakers??!! God help us.
@CrunchyMountainMomma - I’m with you!
@fivepts - Excellent point about families and television. We’re locked into a contract until July on our Directv and I’m counting the days till we don’t have to pay for the garbage anymore. My kids don’t even ask for the television anymore.
tax breaks and cutting congresses raises. you knwo they got a raise this year? and while everyone was running for president they were collecting their senate checks? i think it was liek 165, 000.00.
i think the banks being baled out reminds me of germany, where people had to take wheelbarrel fuls of money for a loaf of bread, just devale our dollar some more, sigh.
I say they should put that stimulus through, increase the size of government by ten fold, add new social programs and government jobs to make people even more dependent on government and then start stricter gun control eventually leading to taking away gun rights. OH, let’s not forget to control the media, no more right wing radio talk shows to present the opposing point of view. What more could you ask for in a government? Now that there are so many democrats controlling things, YES WE CAN! Let’s not forget Biden’s comment either. Remember, they are going to make some changes that people are not going to like, but just TRUST them.
Lower taxes, super lower mortgage rates, lower business taxes.
Obama has it all wrong and 95% of this “plan” will not stimulate anything.
It is all pork and pet projects. Tax rebates for illegals? yeah right,
BHO is just paying off all of his big contributors.
Democrats are corrupt, anything they touch they ruin.
Barney frank and Chris Dodd should be in jail
Thanks to the msm and Hollywood, American was duped.
@mastermind1185 - You are incorrect, the great depression ended because of WW2. The wacky Obama stimulus bill will not work, it will just get us deeper in debt and make half of our country dependent on government (Obama’s ultimate wish)
here is an interesting write up, but you can find many articles like this on the web. all very informative.
ww2/end of depression
@exquisite_christine - Instituting social programs to give people money also makes them like you, spread your suspicions.
@maniac_rose - being in politics, in no way qualifies you to know anything about economics,,, thats pretty much been proven.
@YossariansWingman - hahahahahaha,,, i like reading your comments,,, you dont have a clue do you,,,, hahahahahahaha
what are you?? an ears plant who just goes around commeting on stuff like this,,, never mind you dont have a clue????
hahahahahahahahahaha
@dropsofjupiterihh - you assume too much about my suspicions. I was merely saying out of the two kinds of bribes (bandaids) I prefer the tax breaks because it’s fun to spend the money.