July 18, 2009
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Man Rape Vs. Woman Rape
It appears to me that we treat the rape of a man differently than the rape of a woman.
Remember the teacher Debra LaFave? She had sex with a student. She was 23 at the time and he was 14-years-old. She was given house arrest for 3 years. Here is the link: Link
I think if anyone was honest they would admit that if it was a male 23 year old teacher with a 14-year-old female teacher we would be hearing calls for his death a 20-30 year prison sentence and castration.
Then I think of the post on Mancouch. The post tells a story about a 50-year-old guy who was pulled off his bike and then had his pants and underwear pulled off and then he was sexually molested. Here is the link: Link
People are laughing in the comments. Would xanga have posted a mocking post if it was a 50-year-old woman pulled off the bike? Would it be funny if the woman had five guys pulling off her pants and underwear? Would it have been funny if the five men sexually assaulted her?
I guess I don’t understand the double standard.
I heard a woman say it is different for a man or boy to get raped than it is for a woman to get raped.
Is it different for a man to get raped than for a woman to get raped?
Comments (108)
Rape is rape.
And mancouch (xanga) is ignorant for suggesting otherwise.
Women enjoy rape.
there is no difference; I don’t see why there is a double standard.
all this is disgusting, and I’m seriously appalled at that mancouch post.
completely unfunny.
rape is rape. it doesn’t matter what gender is involved.
I actually heard it’s more likly for a man/boy to be raped then a woman/girl. But men/boys never come forward. It’s all pretty upsetting. You do make a fair point tho.
No way, rape is rape!!
I made a post about her and a few other women who dated their young students, not too long ago. It was featured on Momaroo and most ppl seemed to agree that women definitly get away with it easier than a man would. I have two little boys and if any female teacher were to ever touch them inappopriately, I would like to see that female pay for her crime the same way any male would.
man rape is just as disgusting and sick as woman rape.
but i think people don’t understand the difference because they see women as delicate and less able to defend themselves as men, and thus, woman rape sounds much more heinous. people may find it “funny” that a man is molested by 5 chicks because it is so uncommon, the idea of women overpowering a man for once.
just some food for thought.
As in, vaginal intercourse? Yes. Rape is rape, but it’s much more invasive to rape a woman, than the other way around.
(Of course, there are other forms of rape – anal rape, for example. In that case, it’s equally invasive regardless of gender.)
it seems there’s alot of women teachers rapping young boys in the news lately its disgusting that the punishment for them is way less than for a man commiting the same crime. They are screwing those young boys heads up just as much as the young girls in the same situation.
If a man rapes another man is that a worse crime than if a woman rapes a man? Or if a man rapes a woman? Rape is rape and it’s all WRONG!
No.
Sexual violation must be one of the worst things that can happen to a person, regardless of gender, regardless of the gender of the rapist or the victim.
From a moral perspective, there is no difference. From a practical perspective, the precreative drive of the species is instilled in the male by design, therefore all men are dogs, and getting pulled off your bike by five women is a dream come true. I don’t say it’s right, I just say it is.
They’re both equally wrong, and there isn’t really a difference.
Rape is rape, and people are just crazy.
@radicalramblings - I agree.
Rape is rape.
The fact is, for most rapes wherein a man is the victim, we’re not usually talking about involuntary vaginal sex; it’s often either statutory, anal, or anal with a foreign object. In terms of mental damage, it can be far more damaging for a man to be raped with a broom handle or a candle — and for a young boy? Forget it.
All rape is despicably vile, but honestly, with all the provisions we make for women — suggesting that “any sexual intercourse which a woman comes to regret” counts as rape (as in the women in the military study) — I sometimes feel more sympathy for male victims than female.
I hate this double standard. And i bet if the man on the bike fought back and injured the women, there would be an assault case pending instead of calling it self defense. There’s also the double standard of men beating women….it’s not okay in society’s eyes, but if a woman beats a man….well, people start calling the guy a pussy. The women rarely get prosecuted. I think the punishment for the crime should be the same, regardless of gender. Another thing….i think it’s odd when someone get convicted of murder and gets only a couple years, while someone else who commits murder gets the death penalty or life. I don’t get it…..there is no consistency.
It is never funny, it is always dehumanizing.
@GermanWrench - Broom handle, eh? Thanks for the idea!
unfortunately, society views the genders differently
It’s not one bit different, that woman is an idiot
There is a difference, but I think the charges should be simular.
rape is rape. no gender, race, ethnicity, color, shape can change that.
That is very sad. Rape is not funny, it is ignoring people bounderies and it is completely unwanted. For them to laugh at it…that is wrong.
Just like almost everyone said here: rape is rape is rape. They are both very WRONG.
@GermanWrench - Agreed.
Rape is at heart a violation; making light of it, making it “different for each gender,” is bullshit meant to perpetuate the idea that somehow in certain circumstances it is OK. It is never OK.
sure,,, women usually ask for it,, men dont,,,,
hahahaha,,, jk
i do believe that physically it would be different for a man to be raped (by a woman) than a woman (for a woman i imagine it would be more painful. somebody correct me if i’m wrong). but mentally, it’s just as bad. and the mental anguish somebody must go through after being raped must be horrible.
maybe even more so for a man because nobody takes what has happened to him seriously. it’s very sad.
@la_faerie_joyeuse - I agree with you on this one. I feel that rape has the potential to be more physically painful for a woman. However that does not make the rape of a man any less of a thing. The most damaging part is often the emotional/mental experience and not the physical part.
The majority of people seem to be stating “rape is rape…there is no difference” and I’m going to take the opposite position.
The definition of rape is the same, regardless of gender but the act is completely different. As stated before by someone else, when a man rapes a woman the rape is far more invasive. The only way to have a similar experience if a woman was to rape a man, was if they went at him with dildos and strap-ons. Assuming they didn’t do that, in order for a man to be used, part of his body has to ‘enjoy’ the feeling…regardless of his revulsion.
fyi… I’m speaking from experience as I was molested by a family member for a period of a few years.
Here is the major difference between a raped male, and a raped female.
When a woman is raped, it’s invasive and usually physically destructive. In addition to the physical pain, she has to deal with the emotional pain of being overcome, powerless, and trapped against her wishes.
When a man is raped, it’s more in the mind then the body. (again, unless a strap-on or dildo is used) The man doesn’t have to deal with as much physical pain, but has to deal with the emotional turmoil that comes when your body is saying ‘yes’ while your mind is SCREEEEAMING “NO!!”
I hope my point is understandable. Sorry if it’s not.
@Titanic_Spaz - But what if a woman raped a woman by eating her out?
I agree with the consensus, rape is rape, Here’s a post of a news story I found a few months ago on the subject:
http://irish-russian.xanga.com/699640320/hair-stylist-keeps-armed-robber-as-sex-slave/
I agree it’s a double standard that has no logic, and is especially cruel. Rape is a horror regardless of the gender of the victim, or the gender of the rapist. I’m really glad you are posting these blogs, and you’re absolutely right.
@radicalramblings - Seconded. Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the gender of the victim as well as the gender of the attacker.
@Titanic_Spaz - That view only makes sense if the majority of male rapes occur wherein vaginal intercourse is the primary means, and anal intercourse is the secondary means. The truth, as already mentioned previously, is that very few male rapes are committed against males by females using vaginal sex; male rape is almost exclusively committed either by another male (anal rape) or a female using an object. Males are also more likely to be raped as children, which further complicates the issue. While the psychological damage to raped women cannot be denied or ignored, there is also the physical fact that vaginas are designed to be penetrated by penises, while the anus is not. And while society has done a decent job of being sensitive to the needs of raped women, and while rape against women has been known and dealt with for centuries, there are still many in our country who deny that rape against a man is even possible — much like those who believe that a married woman can’t be raped by her husband. This kind of denial only compounds the already-present damage and emotional trauma of a man — a member of “the stronger sex” — being violated in a way which his body was never designed for (which, again, accounts for the majority of male rape).
All this is why many, including myself, say that rape against a man is no better than rape against a woman; both are violations of their persons.
@AFS90 - ROFL. Yes, they do. And they also enjoy stabbing the one who did it to them with various sharp objects. Seriously, it’s a huge turn on to grab that steak knife and run it through his body as if it was butter… The more times, the better. Kudos for sarcasm
@AFS90 - ew. XP Is that really true??
No, not at all. I have no idea what these people are thinking, that an old man getting raped is of less importance than if a woman got raped.
@Queen_of_You188 - oh, definitely, I’ve amounted plenty of experience points. I mean, how else can I lvl?
Rape is rape. I think people just assume that for it to work, a man would have to be aroused. That is, of course, an unfair way to judge it–to say that he must have wanted/enjoyed it. Also, there are other ways to rape a person besides “normal” intercourse.
Our intellect tell us that rape against a man or woman is equally wrong and deserves similar punishment. Men and women are different. I think rape feels different to a woman than a man just based on anatomy. I have only heard of a few men filing rape charges in my life, and most were not taken seriously in the olden days. (1930′s to 50′s) Here, it seems to be more viewing it as humorous, than serious. Anyway, it was equally wrong no matter how we process the information.
For
some reason, we as society tend to assume that a violation equals
penetration. Why is it that we view penetration as such a submissive
thing? I remember thinking something like this when I was a teenager.
We say “he f***ed her” and it tends to sound as if he was in control.
When we say “she got f***ed by him” it makes her sound submissive. But
we also sometimes say “she f***ed him” in which case our mental image
completely changes and she sounds less submissive and more in control
as a result. The truth is they both f***ed each other.
If
someone slides there finger into the clasp of my fist, my fist is being
penetrated, but who is typically considered submissive in that
situation? If my hand is wrapped around your finger you could say I
have the control. So why can’t the same be true for a woman who wraps
herself around a penis? It’s all perspective. It’s all based on who is
being forceful and who is being forced. The real damage is
mental/emotional. In which case it doesn’t matter what the gender is.
As
a side note, I’m not a big fan of the whole statutory rape concept. or
at least the way it gets dealt with. I think it gets misused many
times. I think the main idea behind it is that an adult doesn’t force
younger people into sex through coercion. But when it’s some 15 year
old’s parents who are objecting to them having sex with their 18 year
old girlfriend/boyfriend, then I think it’s gone a little too far. If
it’s consenting then it’s consenting. I don’t know. I guess I haven’t
thought much into it but, this is how it seems on the surface.
Personally though, if when I was 14 some hot 23 year old teacher of
mine wanted to bang me, I don’t think I’d object much. But I could see
why my parents would. But should it be their choice to press charges
even if I’m ok with it?
It is all the same to me. Just because they aren’t female doesn’t mean they want it.They wouldn’t feel the same if it happened to them, and I hope it never does (happen).
Sure its different, but that doesn’t make it any less wrong.
George Lopez once said in an episode of his show, “If a male teacher has sex with a young female student, that’s horrible. But, if a female teacher has sex with a young male student, you know he wanted it!”
That’s probably true in a majority of those cases. I’ve never heard of such a thing not being consensual. It’s still disgusting, but it wasn’t forced.
However, rape of any kind is the lowest thing one person can do to another. As a guy, I’d much rather be murdered than have any sexual crime committed on me.
Rape can happen to anyone, male or female. However, females are more likely to speak out about than males, since for a male to admit he was raped is laughed upon.
Disgusting.
- Kunoichi
@Titanic_Spaz - I understand your point, but I’m going to (hopefully respectfully) bring up some points to think about.
Wouldn’t the idea that your mind says no, but your body goes completely against that, make a man/boy feel very powerless? Indeed, perhaps as powerless as a woman who was raped? Having control of your own biological functions is important to a person’s psyche – couldn’t the idea that a small part of them “wanted it” be just as psychologically damaging and invasive as female rape?
Also, it might surprise you to know that a big percentage of women are physically aroused as a response to rape – in fact, if they weren’t, the friction from the rape could do a lot of damage to internal organs and could possibly kill them, so it’s a natural biological response for them to become aroused during a sexual assault. It is not at all an uncommon thing. Does that mean that part of them wanted it?
For males an erection required for male rape is the same natural biological response to arousing external stimuli. And the fact is, it doesn’t really matter what their body says, it’s their minds and what they say that matters. If their minds don’t want it, and it happens anyway, it’s rape, and that’s psychologically damaging no matter how physically invasive it is.
I hope that makes sense, and gives a few things to think about. Plus, as @GermanWrench says if it’s not vaginal sex, it has less to do with the male’s biological response (although as a side note to GermanWrench, I have to wonder if the idea that most female-on-male rape is with an object takes into account males who don’t come forward – for all we know the vaginal male rape could be a lot more common than we think, but it’s fair enough to go with the statistics that actually exist).
rapaliscious
I can’t think of anything interesting to say so: rape is rape.
There’s a significant difference, I think. Guys tend to want sex with their preferred gender. Take a look at Russell Clark’s famous psychology experiment, where he had both women and men volunteers go around campus and ask people to sleep with them that night. 75% of the males said yes, and those that didn’t often excused themself by saying, “I’m married/taken/whatever.” While not a single contacted woman agreed. The women often slapped the guy asking the question.
Legally, there should be no double standard. But the actual reality is that women raping men is seen more as a collective sexual fantasy rather than a traumatizing experience. -David
@AibellFaeire - True — and that is a point to consider (just as with women who don’t come forward). Unfortunately, most of what we know about male rape comes from prisons, since such crimes are more easy to learn about (inmates get routine physicals and guards are told to be aware of rape), which makes the issue even more distorted. Besides prison rape, the other segment of men likely to be raped are, sadly, males under the age of 14 and college-age gay men. So the demographics between female victims and male victims are, really, not comperable, so it’s not even a fair question to ask which is worse. The most reasonable answer is that both are horrendous travesties and violations of human rights.
@GermanWrench - Agreed. With statistics that are so skewed it’s hard to have any idea who exactly are the targets or what is done to them, but they are both completely reprehensible acts. They may be “different” mechanically, or they may not, but psychologically, they are most certainly the same qualitatively.
I think the first thing we have to do to learn more about this, and help more men, is teach them that it’s not shameful to come forward and talk about it, but as things go now, the majority of them probably won’t even get the legal action they deserve, so why go through all the pain?
No I don’t think so, at least not mentally… Perhaps the fact that a woman has to be penetrated and a man doesn’t… Alright I can’t believe I just said that and now my mind isd going to icky places I don’t want to visit… Yeah, I don’t think it’s any different.
No. Rape is rape. NO MATTER WHO THE PEOPLE ARE. I get so, so SO angry when I hear people think otherwise.
The only thing that is different is that a man has to be aroused for any sex to happen. Women do not. That’s why raping a male gets less sympathy. It’s not hard to physically arouse someone though even if they are scared shitless it’s a physical reaction, not consent.
The thing is that whatever tone the writer of a blog gives will be reflected in the comments. people laugh when a blog is slanted in a humorous manner. This blog forced everyone to be serious because you gave your opinion. That’s just how it works. Rape is serious. That’s a fact.
no either way it’s horrible
There is no difference. Rape is rape. I suppose the different opinions come from the fact that there are fewer female on male rapes and it is less portrayed in the media than male on female. It seems less scary for a woman to rape a man. But rape is rape. It’s no laughing matter.
rape is rape.
xo
It’s all rape to me…
Rape
, also referred to assexual assault, is an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with or sexual penetration of another person without that person’s consent. *Wikipedia*
Rape is forced, unwanted sexual intercourse. Rape, sometimes also called sexual assault, can happen to both men and women of any age. http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/problems/rape_what_to_do.html
This is kind of a tough subject to explain. By definition, it means sexual assault. Although, Princeton would differ. http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=rape and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape. They only view female rape as “actual” rape. Whereas for males, it’s statuatory?
I think rape is rape. Just like a rose is a flower, and the rain is water. :/
Rape is different between the two sexes. In the perfect world, it would not be different but unforuntately it is. TheTheologiansCafemakes a good point about the 50 year old man. Honestly it would have bothered me more if it was a woman.
A) Mancoutch is retarded. B) Rape is equal across the board.
@AFS90 - Is that a threat?
@radicalramblings - you’d be surprised how threatening a broom handle can be. But no, I just found it amusing how detailed she went into the raping of men.
@AibellFaeire - You and most of the people that responded to my post formed some very interesting arguments. I actually did not know that most female on male rape was with objects. You’ve provided some interesting questions for me to think about. Thanks for that.
@skittler335 - I believe that it would be much more psychologically damaging to be vaginally penetrated, than to have someone rub my clitoris. Is the latter any different from raping a man?
Sex is an invasion of a woman’s body (literally), so its more emotionally scarring for women in that they feel violated, it can also be an invasion of a man’s body leaving him stripped of his sense of “power” and manhood, so it leaves him feeling helpless. As a rape survivor i wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy, and rape is rape no matter what the gender, its always wrong and NOBODY ENJOYS IT!!
There is a difference in society’s eyes and it’s a major double standard. I’m not going to lie, I laughed at the prospect of a man getting rape. We as people are raised to see men as masculine, tough, and easily able to defend themselves whereas women are seen as fragile and delicate and in need of a protector. It’s just another double standards. There are a lot of them in the world. Maybe one day we’ll get past them.
No difference.
yes there is a double standard.
is it different for an elephant to kill a rat than for a rat to kill an elephant? the elephant, naturally, is bigger and more physically powerful; all it would have to do is step on the rat. switch the two and the dynamics change; the rat would resort more heavily on strategy than physical power to kill the elephant.
so yes there is a double standard. if we look at the end result, then the situations are the same. if we pay attention to what was actually involved that contributed to the end result, then that would offer us a different perspective.
in the case of rape, physical strength offers an advantage. generally (not always), men are stronger than women. a double standard exists because we presume men use their strength/power to rape women, whereas women don’t have that same physical strength/advantage to begin with.
you forgot to mention that she has bipolar disorder. that’s why her situation was different.
wrote a long post, and my problems wiped it out. just to say, God bless you for hosting such conversations. the love of men is precious too! lets work toward promoting beautiful love…..not junk and profane stuff
Male rape happens in American prisons all the time and is more frequent than female rape. Both are examples of the strong preying on the weak. The society knows all about the former and does nothing substantial to stop it. In such a barbarous society, can one except anythng tother than humour regarding the practice? Some primitives even believe the prisoner victims deserve being so treated because they broke the law in the first place. This reveals an extremely medieval concept of what passes for a justice system in America.
Rape is rape.
It’s wrong either way,whether its a man raping a women or a women raping a man.
I see the exact same double standard that you see. &if anyone thinks that it’s different depending on which gender is being raped and which is doing the raping they need to seriously smarten up…that’s disgusting.
This is a double standard because of the ideal of men loving sex. Men supposedly love the idea of a woman having her way with him regardless of his opinion (that is, as long as she’s “hot”). I’ve heard several of my male friends say how they would love a woman, or several women, to get a little forceful and agressive with them. The idea that women want them. That they’re desireable and can get more sex than the next guy. My boyfriend has actually been sexually assulted by a female. Several females at different times. His guy friends keep talking about how lucky he is even though he sees it as something he doesn’t want. Now, given it’s not something that is emotionally affecting him or anything, but it’s still the fact that he didn’t want it and these girls just took it anyway and that’s just plain wrong. These girls are all no longer parts of his life. He’s made sure of that.
Now, on the flip side, yeah, normally girls don’t wanna be forced into it and it’s bad and all. Or a girl is manipulated into it or whatever. But then there are some girls that like it, just like guys would. There are some girls that like the idea that a guy would take it regardless of their opinion. For a guy to get a little forceful and agressive with them. The idea that men want them. That they’re desirable.
Now, if you ask me, men aren’t seen as the victims and are usually crusified more than women are because of the ideal that still holds strong that women are weaker and men take advantage of them. While this is often true, it isn’t something that is always true. There are always exceptions to the rule and just because it doesn’t seem realistic as a crime doesn’t mean that the criminal should be let off easy just because she doesn’t have a penis.
I’ve been thinking about this lately too. I mean, I have seen countless rape scenes of women in movies and TV shows my entire life. And people are like, “yeah, so what, just another part of the story:” I’ve also heard men whine like babies over that one scene in “Deliverance” for years. I mean go on and on about how disturbing it is, etc. etc.
Rape is rape, and yeah, it’s as disturbing as hell.
But sometimes what the law deems rape is NOT rape. A 23 year old TA, and a very interested consenting 17 year old student…not rape.
Rape is a violation, that involves sexual contact that is forced upon either psychologically or physically upon a person. Rape is an act against another person.
Consentual sex, among two people of sound mind and the ability to make an informed decision to do so, is not rape. Some people may be ready at 16, others don’t seem to be ready to make that informed decision EVER.
but yes, our culture treats rape againt a man very differently, Socially, as if it’s a huge horrible, unthinkable act, yet truly, it’s harder for a man who has been raped to be taken seriously, they often don’t even report it, or get the help medically or emotionally they need to recover, because of the stigma that they ended up in such a situation. So, the cultures view on male rape worth in paradoxical ways.
rape is rape and it’s disgusting.
i pity whoever goes through it.
There is no difference for a man or woman but in my opinion there are different types/categories of rape. There is consensual intercourse with a minor, which is rape of course because the government has decided at what age you can give consent. Then there is forced rape, which at any age is the same, but of course worse for children in my view.
Yes men and women should be judged the same for whatever the offense is. Sure, I would not have felt like I was raped if a 23 year old woman got it on with me when I was 14, I would have been king of the world, lol. But it still would have been rape according to the law.
There is no difference. Mancouch is just sad.
I agree, Dan. I think there is a strong bias and it’s wrong and disgusting. To see that Mancouch post and see reactions to it is so very disturbing. Talk to any boy or man who has been raped or taken advantage of (truly) and see if he’s laughing and feeling like ‘the luckiest man in the world’.
You are absolutely right. There is no difference. But, like a lot of comments have said, men and boys are usually raped differently than women. I’ve seen two men fight. It is more difficult for a man to be held down than a woman, so men don’t get raped as often. I am not saying the double standard is okay, I am merely pointing out why it might exsist.
@Titanic_Spaz - No problem! Thanks for your original comment, it certainly gave me something to think about.
rape is rape not matter who it happens to.
I don’t understand it either.
Dan, you have to understand what is going on here. There is a group of people who think that people with penises are the most vile creatures on the face of the planet and they are just waiting for their chance to rape a woman. Women have been turned into victims. So when the situation is reversed, it’s assumed that the woman was seduced by the man and he’s lying.
@AFS90 - ew. I must not be a woman then. XP
There is no difference. Rape is rape.
she looks like Christine Applegate; Kelly from Married with Children
@ProfessorTom - I agree with you.
I don’t understand the double standard.
Only difference I can see is that a woman is the one who has a chance of being pregnant. Otherwise it’s just as disgusting.
Rape is rape no matter if it is a man or a woman. It i s an act of violence and any teacher violating the trust of a student deserves to go to prison.
I agree with most everyone else. Rape is rape no matter the gender.
Rape Is Rape regradless
Rape is wrong, no matter whom its to, the serverity is still there.
rape is gender blind.
I’ve always said this, and a lot of people I’ve expressed my
opinions to have seemed unconvinced. Although technically, at least in
British law, men cannot be raped, as stated by the technical classification of
‘rape’, as defined by law. Anyway I’ve always believed this double
standard is unjust. In a world were people are (mostly rightly) shot down
for being ageist, racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semantic and generally
prejudiced and discriminatory, why does this double standard still exist?
Surely it is one of the highest, most unjust, forms of sexism?
Men, Women. Rape is rape.
Of course rape is not funny, but you can’t ignore the fact that one man’s rape is another man’s fantasy.
tends to protect women in certain ways
Its a huge double standard. I think all rapists should be put to death, gender shouldn’t matter.
It also disgusts me how easily females get off after any crime, what happened to equality? I guess feminists today don’t remember Susan B Anthony too well.
Rape is rape. Unless the person was dressing/acting like a slut. I know I’ll get flamed for this, but the way a person projects themself is how the world sees them. If some slut says “no” to sex, I’d assume they were just playing hard to get. *shrug*
As far as the gender double standard, I agree with everyone else– that man isn’t lucky. It is sick. For men, it’s probably even more damaging, because it’s usually anal rape for them.
Of course its as serious no matter the gender but it is different in the fact men generally are more powerful and strong than the average woman. Men would be able to rape a woman more easily than a woman a man.
Meow.
Rape bad.
People are sick.
That post you referenced is disgusting. Both crimes should receive the same punishment. A woman shouldn’t be given house arrest. But in the case you mentioned above, I do believe that it was statutory rape. Would a man be given the same punishment for statutory rape? I’m not sure.
Women have it so easy. They can get away with anything. I myself, a male was beaten and raped by my baby sitter at a young age for not wiping after i peed, that wasn’t funny. But a few years later I went to a neighbor’s house (a female) to grab something I left at her house. Once i came in she dragged me to her room, took off her robe and took my pants off and made me play with her, then she climed on top of me. But I was 11 or 12 and she was in her late teens and I seriously thought that was nasty a hell at the time, she didn’t smell too good either.