September 29, 2009
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Do Illegals Deserve Medical Insurance?
A few Democrats are pushing the idea that illegal immigrants deserve rights under the health care bill.
The idea is that illegal immigrants should be able to buy their own private plans. Here is the link: Link
Should illegal immigrants be allowed to purchase medical insurance?
Comments (175)
Never!
do they???
No, but they should be allowed emergency medical care if they need it. It’s what we’ve always done. If they want health insurance, they need to become citizens so that they can be punished like everyone else if they don’t get the right kind of health insurance, or no insurance at all.
PAY for insurance yes live on welfare and and take it from those more in need NO send them back to where ever they came from!
fifth and second at the same time!!
There’s not much point in calling them illegal immigrants if they get to drive, buy insurance, etc….
I suppose it all comes down to how they’re making the money to pay for it, and if they’re making it “illegally,” then probably not? I don’t know.
dammit!!
Yes.
NO
They already can – they can purchase private insurance as far as I know.
No I do not think they should
Sure, go for it. But if they’re not a citizen, how could they recieve it? But, yeah.
Nope.
but we will be sure to supply them with lots of bullets if necessary.
We can even be so kind as to ship it to them via the business end of our firearms.
Sure, and when they are found out to be illegal, send them back to their own Country. Should they be allowed to get health care paid by US the taxpayers….a BIG NO!!!!!!
Do illegal immigrants even have feelings?
Yes.
as much as my compassion would like to say “yes!”
i’d have to go against my kindness and vote no on this one.
Our health insurance coverage is already thin as it is, and we cannot not afford to give out freely to those who don’t even pay income taxes. and given that these undocumented workers tend to work in more hazardous environment prone to dangerous condition, they’d more likely use our medical resource because they are more subect to health hazards.
so no.
@thoughmomma - can’t really collect welfare when you’re an illegal immigrant.
We don’t require proof of citizenship at Emergency Rooms….or in schools. Just sayin’.
if they pay a fairly significant amount, yes
I find them being allowed to purchase private insurance a far better choice than receiving medi cal (medicaid in other states) for no fee. The issue of how they earned the money comes into play, though.
@odiada - people in Mexifornia do it all the time.. Green cards ca ching!
@odiada - You would be surprised.
Heck no.. You’re here illegally you dont deserve a thing!! PERIOD!
Better to have them pay for medical insurance than have the rest of the tax paying citizens pay for their bills when they end up in the hospitals!
Hell no.
No. We should give an opportunity for them to immigrate legally, in a reasonable way, first.
Our immigration laws suck.
No No No
@gwacemom@momaroo - well, you can’t collect welfare unless you file for taxes.
Um yeah. If they pay for it what’s the problem? Isn’t it more money they’re putting back into the economy rather than sending to mexico or wherever?
I have no problem with them buying health insurance. I just don’t think they should be allowed to remain in the US. Thus buying the insurance would be kind of stupid of them.
No. I don’t think so. They’re illegal. And illegals fucking piss me off.
@CelestialTeapot - Hahahahahahaha! Ouuuuuch.
But no, they shouldn’t. Do I really need to explain why?
Are democrats pushing that idea??
I think PEOPLE deserve medical treatment. However, I realize that’s not exactly practical, and understand that we need to focus on our own citizen’s needs before others. But ideally, no one should die simply because they’re poor.
Yes, everyone deserves healthcare.
The illegals and the poor don’t deserve anything. We should let them die in the streets!
(Note this is sarcasm, thanks.)
@MomGoneMadd - Try taking a few steps in their shoes.
@CelestialTeapot - Good answer, or rather question.
@thoughmomma - You can’t sign up for welfare if you’re an illegal immigrant. Where do people come up with these things?
It seems frighteningly easy to dismiss the humanitarian or even the pragmatic reality of illegal immigration in some dismissive fixation of righteous anger: They cheat, so they’ve forfeited all human-consideration!
The otherization– and worse yet, the hate-mongering politicalization of illegal immigrants is disconcerting.
@JadedJanissary - I’ve got a friend who just married a woman who is a Mexican citizen. They are going through the paperwork for her to become a citizen, and prior to that so she can get a job. It’s costing them several thousands and requires a lawyer. Overall I think they expect it will be 5-6000 to get everything done. And that’s after they got married!
@UnworthyofHisgrace - The article just said it wasn’t paid by taxpayers, it was a private insurance company. Taxes have nothing to do with it.
@MagisterTom - I’m a Mexican living in California. My grandparents worked in farms LEGALLY making barely enough money to survive and did it the right way for our family.. LEGALLY!! I have ZERO sympathy for people who selfishly come to our country and then DEMAND the same rights just because they got here however they did. Same goes for that dude at the grocery store pissed off at the checker because they ran out of money on the first of the month and they cant cash their welfare check they have the right to collect for the past 8 years and 5 kids!!! Now how are they suppose to buy their crab legs and rib eyes?!?!? Gasp!
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Oh, btw. If people don’t like “illegals”, they should think about amnesty. Yeah. It’s not like some “illegals” chose to come here. Some were brought over here against their volition as kids. Now they’re here and could never imagine going back. Do people not understand that? Ugh.
Only if it is a ploy to deport them and take their money. (insert diabolical laugh here)
@MomGoneMadd - Well, what about the kids that were brought over here by their parents? Do you have any sympathy for them? It’s not like it was their choice to come here.
Sure, but why would they pay when they already don’t have to.
@milubbles - nope no sympathy for them there parents shouldnt have been so dumb to distory there life. i cant even go to mcdonalds and order my food in english no more! they taking over the population and should be sent back. Argueement over Illegals suck.
@milubbles - well in the circumstance like my step daughters family on her mothers side. the family got work visas and/or married to get green cards so almost always they have insurance through medi cal. I resent the family for bringing their children here and EXPECTING us to foot the bill..sure it isnt the childs fault by any means and they probably have a better chance of success here and will get the education and the job in the long run and probably be the statistic in the family though not likely. But when I have to pay a 30 dollar co pay and Juanita comes in speaking NO English with her 6 kids and medi cal card and gets “free healthcare” there is a problem. Why is the point that they are here ILLEGALLY being missed ?
@MomGoneMadd - if they have a green card and they’re paying their taxes, then there’s nothing illegal about them
No, illegals shouldn’t be allowed to do anything other than work towards citizenship when they plan on living here and being a part of the country.
why not? they’re paying for it?
@odiada - if they are on welfare they arent paying their taxes, I AM!!!
@thoughmomma - Huh? I couldn’t understand half of your argument. English, please.
@MomGoneMadd - Not all stereotypes are like “Juanita”. Some actually come here to in search for a new life. Like a family I know… They’re waiting in line to get their residency, but who knows how long that’ll take. They have a six year old daughter that’s uninsured. It wasn’t her fault for coming here. Her parents are working, searching for virtually any job possible. Not everyone comes here with six kids and speaking no English…
Matthew 25:36-45:
35For I
was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave
me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37″Then
the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and
feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41″Then
he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43I
was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you
did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after
me.’
44″They
also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a
stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help
you?’
45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
HELL NO! My hard earned tax dollars are not going to people who mooch off of other people.
No.
That is a privilege of being a legal citizen.
“Undocumented, if they can afford it, should be able to buy their own private plans. It keeps them out of the emergency room,”
In response to your question: Of course - allow undocumented workers to buy medical insurance.
@milubbles - no they come here with just their spouse and then MAKE 6 kids..
I see it every day. I worked in a grocery store for 18 years and I saw it there. I shant be swayed of my opinion on this one. Where I agree the children arent at fault and understand parents would do anything to give their child a better life, there are ways to do it honorable and legally.. If that is the case, then so be it. But otherwise, it’s a crime like any other and you should not deserve a thing.
@DixieD - that was my husbands argument.. I said, “what about the seperation of church and state”…?
Okay, Illegals are people, yes, but they are not law abiding citizens. I realize some of them may be second or third or more generations, however, if they live inthe U.S. then they should become U.S. Citizens. As a 100% American, homeless single mother I couldn’t even get a third of the benefits an illegal immigrant had available to them when I needed it. How do I know that? Experience, plain and simple.
Uh, no. Let them become legal citizens and they can have healthcare.
Everyone should have the right to medical insurance, especially if they’re paying for it out of their own pockets.
@MomGoneMadd -
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinion/02wed3.html
@MomGoneMadd - you can’t file for welfare unless you file for taxes…
@somthingsgottagive -
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinion/02wed3.html
@odiada - Either way… Getting welfare on an invalid SSN is nearly impossible. I speak of “personal” reasons…I was born here, and even then I didn’t qualify for welfare/child support. : All because my mom wasn’t… “legal”.
@MomGoneMadd - That’s something I agree with… with all people. Any race, shape, form, etc. Don’t have kids if you can’t sustain them. -_-
No!
@AibellFaeire - sorry, didn’t read it
@UnworthyofHisgrace - Haha, you don’t have to apologize, but he even said it in the post. Maybe just take this as a reminder not to jump to conclusions? =P
@MomGoneMadd - That’s missing the point, separation of church and state. You don’t have to be a churchgoer to know that we should treat everyone as we would like to be treated. And while my beliefs do correspond with a church, the point is: we are called to offer basics to everyone, regardless of who they are, what their income is, and extrapolate that to how they got into the country.
@AibellFaeire - Thats just it, the biggest problem people HAVE with illegals is the strain on tax money. I’m sure there are hidden things that DO take tax dollars….there always is…just sayin
@AibellFaeire - Just wondering, I see lots of others mentioned taxes being part of this….why single me out. Did I do something to you or something.
@UnworthyofHisgrace - However, taking private insurance, they would start PAYING taxes, just as they have to pay sales tax on items in states that have sales tax – or at least be putting money into our economy.
@UnworthyofHisgrace - Haha, no, nothing of the sort. Yours was just the only one I saw while scanning the comments. After I replied, I saw a ton of others, but it seemed rather futile to call them all out, haha. Sorry if you felt singled out.
@AibellFaeire - Thats ok, I just wondered….I’m paranoid ya know bahahahahaha!
@UnworthyofHisgrace - Haha, I understand! =) No worries, though, it’s not just you! =D
how stupid is that??? no one should be allowed to buy insurance…
and we wonder whats wrong with the health care system,,,, hahahahahaha
@AibellFaeire - See, I have no problem with illegals buying their own ins. But I think if they ARE illegal then Ins companys should have to report it. It might help crack down on some of the illegals. Most of them deal in cash though and it’s hard to find them. I sold my daughters Mustang convertible to a mexican and he gae us $4800 cash. He lived around the corner from us. A few weeks after they bought the car I had driven in that cove and the house was vacant. It’s funny to me how the people that live here complain and then the people who don’t live here are doing everything they can to come here. I just find that weird
yes, they are HUMAN BEINGS! and if we bitch about our taxes going up because of all this, i think that is hypocritical because we seem to forget they aren’t coming here because it’s disneyland. they are here to try and just survive. i suggest a few thousand americans go to mexico and try to make a living. are we just “the land of the free” ONLY for citizens? perhaps that is why we are about to become the land of the NOT free.
In my opinion, they should be able too, but with certain requirements. For instance, either they have applied for a green card or will apply within a certain time frame. It wouldn’t be a lot of work to furnish documents for an insuarance company, and it would not be unfair. If they do not apply within a time frame, or choose to avoid a full citizenship, the insurance could be revoked and they could choose to do things the correct way or not get insurance.
no.
they can buy it for a price. Not cheap like everyone else and it should not be handed to them.
in their own country yes. If they are here illegaly why should we?! They don’t want to abide by the laws then why should we give them anything at all!!!
Um, NO! They need to be deported or get proper citizenship. But I don’t think they should be given proper citizenship since they already committed a crime. They shouldn’t get rights that are for US citizens since they are not citizens.
No and legal immigrants should be required to have medical insurance prior to having a visa issued, and they should be required to post a huge bond so they adhere to the visa guidelines.
In Canada half of new immigrant children live in poverty… I believe the numbers are even worse in the US… really, people aren’t getting rich off you, they just want to start a living. Everyone deserves access to health care, no matter what country or system they are living in and furthermore I hate that term illegal… plenty of “legal” people steal from your country, they just steal a hell of a lot more from it.
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I really don’t care so long as I can say I got what care I needed and I can reasonably say to another human- you can get the same.
I like the “go back to where they came from” comments… I am sure the Native Americans were saying, “I wish they would go back to Europe” and not sharing their healthcare systems freely with European settlers..
Funneh.
@UnworthyofHisgrace - (in answer to your question above) the problem is that we have allowed the media and the political parties to have us foucs on the people who come here to work. Prior to having a working knowledge of the situation I did the same.
Social Security knows exactly where people are employed. When taxes are filed the social security department notifiies the employer that the social security number of the worker conflicts with the information they have on file. The employer has a choice, send the worker to social security to get clearance or ignore the notice. When you employ someone they you out a I-9 form on their eligiblity . We used to have verification numbers to call to get a code (like a credit card approval code) Now I think it may even be computerized.
Now there is a fine for employing someone who is undocumented but that is normally considered a cost of doing business. It is far less money to pay a fine than it is to pay a standardized wage and benefits so if by chance the company is fine, it will be added into their production cost. It will not cost the company, it will be reflected in either their price or perhaps their dividend.
I am going to give you a analogy I learned when Istudied IPM. IPM teaches environment control The first thing you do is to study the environment. If you wish to control a environment than control the food , water and the potential shelter. Remove the food sources, remove the water sources and remove the shelter from the immediate vicinity. Altering what the environment supports controls the environment.
If we are told that we have a undocumented worker problem than the first thing we do is not build a fence, we find out where the source of their income is. People do not move to areas where there is no way to provide themselves with food and water. Shelter becomes irrelevant if there is no food and water.
Next look to the difference between causation and symptoms. Undocumented workers are a symptom, not a causation. What is the causation? Employers who wish to exploit workers and the laws, as well as the people in the community whose infrastructure will be affected.
Do I take a hold harmless approach (no responsibility for actions)? No. But if I am trying to find a solution I am not going to look to the symptoms for anything more than a tool to diagnosis the problem. The way we approach the immigration issue is a symptom of why we are in the fiscal trouble we are. We don’t want to tackle issues and resolve them, we just want to make them issue that divide us.
We don’t require proof of citizenship to get our lawns mowed, our buildings constructed or renovated, our fruit stocked our trucks loaded and unloaded, the list goes on. Our country runs on the back of these people in the second tier service industry. ‘Illegals’ as we refer to them.
NO. Heck NO! No way! Absolutely NOT! Negative.Nope. Forget about it.
@MomGoneMadd - YEAH!!!!
Not illegal immigrants, no.
It’s a very tough situation. It’s easier to be tough when faced with questions on general policy. But I wonder if these same hardline (“no health care for illegal immigrants!”) commenters were sitting in the ER making the decision on whether or not to treat the 10 year old illegal immigrant child that shows with a life thereatening injury would be so tough.
@fivepts - Are you a believer in Yahweh? If so, from your comment I can truly feel the love and acceptance you have for everyone. Heartwarming.
Absolutely freaking NOT. Send their sick butts home. If they are illegal they shouldn’t be in our country in the first place. I know that sounds mean and like I don’t have compassion but its true. They don’t pay taxes, send all the money they earn here in the USA to their family’s back home so all the money they earn in the US does not even make it back into our struggling economy.
It should be noted that the great majority of Democrats aren’t saying this should happen. However, from a spiritual perspective, medical care should be denied to no one. Jesus turned nobody away, and the parable of the good Samaritan is about an immigrant providing medical care. Anybody who says everybody should be covered has the spiritual and moral high ground in this debate.
Actually, if they buy it, and keep up with their payments, why not? Would you rather have them stay here crippled?
If they can pay for it, I guess so.
@DixieD - best answer yet!
Pay for insurance absolutely yes. They deserve free medical insurance when they become citizens of the country.
I’m not sure. Maybe not.
I’m actually torn. I have a rather soft heart which tends to get me into trouble…so the part of me that feels badly for them says sure. The other part of me gets a little angry at the fact they did ARE illegal and therefore should be forced to be made legal before they receive it. We have problems with health insurance as it is, so I don’t think we can afford to hand it our so freely right now. So I guess, my less-soft side wins on this one.
Seeing as I’m a 20 something healthy single white American born/raised female & can’t get insurance, I’ve got to say heck no!!
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If I went to another country illegally and tried to get insurance I would be laughed out of there (or arrested).
There’s no way illegal immigrants should get anything. Key word here: illegal.
Of course.
Only in a life or death situation. OTher then that absolutly not. THEY CAN GO HOME and come back legally
You have to remember, illegal immigrants can ALREADY buy medical insurance. The way things stand right now MANY illegal immigrants HAVE medical insurance (more than half of them), either through their job or the private market.
What people are saying here is that with the new reform, illegal immigrants should explicitly be REFUSED the right to buy medical insurance (that they already have). In effect, what’s happening is REPUBLICANS are pushing taking AWAY medical insurance from people who would otherwise be able to have it.
For many that would be a law tantamount to a death sentence. It’s horribly cruel and a monstrously evil thing to do. And on top of that it would make our medical situation WORSE by putting more strain on the system.
These are people too. Where is it written that breaking this one law of crossing the border is the ULTIMATE SIN and turns you into less than a person, deserving of nothing, but suffering and death?
It’s sick. And the fact that all these people are supporting it makes me ill.
Can they purchase it? Yes. Should they get medicaid? NO!
No, they need to be citizens to participate, but hopefully they would be smarter than to want to support the health insurance industry as opposed to their own health.
I am a democrat and I am completely against this. When they are caught thy are sent back to their own c ountries. PERIOD. If you want the benefits that come with being an American, than come here legally.
No.
Health care should be prioritized to American citizens.
@In_Reason_I_Trust - You already know the answer to the question, but I’ll bite. Yes. I am a Christian. As far as your statement/attempt to categorize or label me, since when does “love and acceptance” entail giving people a pass for blatant disregard for the law? The question asked about “ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.” My faith/beliefs nor your athiest views/beliefs have anything to do with obeying the laws of this country.
@odiada - lol yeah you can. in California you can get Medi-cal (the states free healthcare program) as well.
anyway my answer to this question is no.
it’s funny how when applying for Medi-cal, if you ARE a citizen you have to give them all this proof. But if you’re not a citizen you just give them your name, wait a while, and voila! free healthcare.
I don’t get this. These are people, often here because, though they are “illegal”, we want them, because they work for less than the legal minimum wage, we are able to take advantage of them in other words, and we are arguing about whether they should have the right to “buy” health insurance? With what would they buy it? I know many legals who don’t have insurance because they can’t afford to buy it.
The better question is should we let people die when they are sick, and also is treating people who possible don’t “deserve” it a benefit to them, or a benefit to society because it stems the spread of disease and maintains a populace, legal or not, that contributes to society rather than the opposite.
Yes they should be allowed to buy. Big Business ships a lot of them in here so they can be exploited…so it is the only humane thing to do.
That depends, do I get to take advantage of all of their awesome government programs? Can I hop the borders of this world and expect -demand a hearty handshake and a share of the goods, just because I am there? Give me my answer, and you’ll have yours.
Although, when it comes to someone choosing to purchase a plan…whatever.
See the thing that bothers me so much about this whole immigration issue is that people in this country don’t seem to understand the kind of stress these people encounter on a daily basis. Yeah a lot of people say “Oh I know, they have terrible lives and encounter a lot of stress on a daily basis, I understand” The matter of fact is no, the people who say this don’t understand. They never had to send their child to work out in the fields, a scrapyard, sell homemade treats out in the streets instead of having them go to school. This very much applies to me as well, but at least I have sympathy for these people. If there’s anyone people opposed to the immigration issue should be mad at it’s the Mexican government, because they’re not doing anything to help and better these peoples’ situation. And to deny them medical insurance only adds on to that stress, therefore, to do that would be very unfair and inhumane. Who are we or any political fuckhead in office to deny any human being the right to remain healthy just to keep the life they are so rightly entitled to keep? Just because they don’t have a piece of paper who’s actual meaning and value is nothing more, but just another figment of our imagination? No one came to this country with that piece of paper, not the Native Americans, not the Europeans that eventually came to claim this land.
Way to be callous and unsympathetic America, way to be.
I see all these people saying no but why not?
Why don’t we just stop paying them the low salary that they are willing to work for and pay our citizens the salary they are willing to work for to do the same work. Problem solved. Get real people you know we want them here for the cheap labor. Some would even like it better if they were slaves. Anyway you cut it we are going to be paying for their healthcare.
How about when they apply they just deport them.
@MomGoneMadd - What are you talking about, you make it sound like a green card is something easy to get. Besides, if they do have a green card they aren’t illegal.
It should be made easier for immigrants to come into the country legally. We have ridiculously low quotas that don’t actually and smuggling people into the US has become a major source of income for organized crime, it is #2 after drugs.
America is a land of immigrants, let people come.
@fivepts - Laws have nothing to do with morals
@cokebottlefigure - The whole issue with health care isn’t so much, “should this person get health care for free?” it’s “How much extra taxes are you willing to pay so this person can get healthcare?”
In the most recent plan, everyone will either be forced to buy health insurance or pay $1,900, so are you willing to pay $1,900 a year for other people to have insurance? Unless you already have health insurance, then you won’t need to pay any extra
People are people. Borders are imaginary.
NO! If they want health insurance under Obama’s plan, they must become citizens. I’m tired of them taking things away from natural born citizens in this country.
Fuck no!
They are here ILLEGALLY.
That should be reason enough right there.
@MagisterTom - Let them eat cake, it is!
no.
Rep. Steve King: ”If anybody can, with a straight face, advocate that we should provide health insurance for people who broke into our country, broke our law and for the most part are criminals, I don’t know where they ever would draw the line,”
Is this guy kidding? “for the most part criminals?” Seriously? Clearly, this guy has never–ever–actually met, watched, or even seen an illegal immigrant at work. They are the hardest working group of people there are in the U.S.–hands down. They do jobs that most others would scoff at doing. That comment just made me sick at my stomach. Wonder what he would think if someone met him, found out he was from Iowa, and thought: Iowa. Farming country. This guy must be a backwoods idiot. Isn’t that what most farmers are? ugh. By the by, Mr. King: They aren’t advocating the giving away of insurance. They are advocating allowing illegal immigrants to purchase the insurance.
For the people answering “no”, I must ask: What is the alternative? Allowing illegal immigrants to flood emergency rooms rather than obtain a PCP? If a person is managing to pay for insurance on his own–and is thus able to care for his family and save me a buck or two by not utilizing an ER as a doctor’s office–then I will let him buy the insurance.
How in the world, in a “capitalist” society can we deny anyone the right to spend their own hard-earned money?
@phantomFive - To some extent you are correct. People with morals really don’t need “the law.” Laws are basically for lawbreakers. I stop at the STOP signs. I drive the speed limit. I don’t take what is not mine. I don’t trespass. Given that, pretty good chance I won’t be breaking any laws.
“Undocumented, if they can afford it, should be able to buy their own
private plans. It keeps them out of the emergency room,” said Rep.
Michael M. Honda, California Democrat and chairman of the Congressional
Asian Pacific American Caucus.”
See, the problem with this? Is that if they could afford it, they wouldn’t be IN the emergency rooms in the first place – yet (in CA anyways) that’s where they go for their primary care. Ergo, they cannot afford it, and it’s a moot point.
I have no problem with legal aliens having access to healthcare, but the illegals (as the name implies) gained entry to the country illegally, and should not be rewarded for it.
No
If they can PAY for their own insurance and be able to pay for their copayments and such, then yes, let them. If they are on welfare and not working, just kicking back, send them back to where they came from. If American citizen’s can’t even get healthcare/ insurance, and they go to school here, work here, pay taxes here, then there’s something wrong with that freaking equation!
@fivepts - You’re making the mistake of assuming that laws are moral. Many times in the past they have been immoral, and not worth following, indeed should have been broken. If a law is immoral, there is no moral obligation to follow it.
In addition, this guy estimates that the average American commits three felonies a day, based on the vagueness of the US penal code. If you don’t know what the laws are, how do you know you aren’t violating any?
Not being a lawyer myself, I don’t feel confident at all that I am not violating laws on a given day. There are lots of laws I don’t know about.
pay for it? yes. free shit? no
@phantomFive - “If a law is immoral, there is no moral obligation to follow it.” What is “immoral” about requiring citizenship in order to receive benefits?
Don’t try to tell me the illegals “don’t know.” My neighbors are illegal and they brag about all the “benefits/entitlements” they receive, all the while sending untaxed $$ back to Mexico. They know.
Just because you don’t know something doesn’t make you right…any more than not knowing you have cancer makes you well.
Actually yes they should be “allowed” to buy it. The quotes are because you are fined if you do not buy it.
@fivepts - If you don’t like what someone does, say why you don’t like it. Don’t hide behind the argument, “It’s illegal, therefore they shouldn’t do it,” which is a fallacious argument.
No, stack ‘em up like cordwood and let ‘em die.
Honestly – what else are they supposed to do if they get sick? Are people seriously suggesting they shouldn’t get any kind of medical treatment at all, even if they could pay for it (or for the insurance)? Cuz that’s just inhumane…
@phantomFive - What’s to hide behind? It IS illegal for them to be here. That should be reason enough. I never said I “didn’t like it.”
Following your logic: If you steal something from me, and I inform you: “That’s illegal,” that’s not a good enough reason for you to not steal? BUT, if I say: “I don’t like it because it makes me feel bad and I think you should work for what you want”…you will suddenly decide it’s better not to steal? Hold that thought–there are a couple of guys down the block getting ready to rape and beat up an elderly woman. I’m going to tell them why I don’t like their behavior. I bet they stop.
(Actually, the fact that things are illegal doesn’t stop people from committing crimes. But I AM a firm believer that 180 grains delivered right between the eyes via an S&W .40 would. Concealed Carry–Don’t Leave Home Without It.)
@fivepts - Yeah, that’s essentially right. The reason I don’t steal has nothing to do with whether it’s illegal or not. The reason I don’t steal is because I respect other people enough to not take their stuff.
I do things because they’re the right thing to do, not because of what some politician 2000 miles away in Washington DC thinks. And if I want to do it, you better be a fast draw on that S&W .40 because the threat of death won’t stop me either.
Purchase means pay for. So sure? I don’t know.
no way!! im all for immigrants but the illegal ones are sucking us dry
~GiGi
I don’t know about deserve, because they sure don’t. Unless your going with the whole all men thing. Honestly heck no though, because if we are paying for heath care it comes out of taxes, and illegal immigrants are not paying taxes. Um so no and who ever had this idea should pay for it out of their own paycheck because they think it’s such a great idea.
HECK NO! If they want that, they can go through the process of become LEGAL immigrants. Illegal immigrants should all just be deported back to their home countries and locked up there! See how many of them will come back and try it again after that! Plus, fewer of them to screw up the economy and take our hard earned tax dollars in the form of ANYTHING that WE pay for and THEY don’t.
And in case anyone is wondering why I take such a hard stance on the topic, I am a LEGAL immigrant and find it utterly offensive that illegals can get as much as they can. Why did I even bother doing it the legal way if I could get all of the things I want without all the paperwork, time, effort, money, and government abuse?
The best thing to do is look at this from a reality perspective. Illegal immigrants are criminals, they are federal fugatives and should get care while in prison or being transported to the border where they belong. I can’t stand the bleeding heart idiology that they somehow have earned the right to our hospitals and doctors offices. They are humans and I like most care about every living being on the earth, but it is the responsibility of their governemnt to take care of them, or let them care for themselves not ours. Illegals cost state billions each year, by not paying for their health care. I’d rather eat my shoes than see a day when illegals have better healthcare options than legal citizens of this country. I wish americans would stop feeding their leeching on our society.
In their home country? Absolutely. Here? No.
depends if they pay taxes.
Wasn’t it the U.S’s fault why there are so many illegal immigrants coming to the States? My history teacher told me that Bill Clinton proposed a free trade act that sold goods to Mexico and Canada without a tariff. The Mexican corn farmers lost business due to everyone buying the cheaper, U.S corn. So, many families, out of work, came to the U.S to look for a job.
Even if my teacher was wrong, I believe they do deserve health care. Why? My mother came here illegally. Has anyone really seen Nicaragua? Not the tourist locations that are DESIGNED to give a look of paradise, but the true country? Little kids running around the street with hardly any clothes. Babies wearing reusable cloth diapers. In my mom’s day, she only ate two bowls of rice and beans everyday. Her father told her to go to the U.S, become something.
You have any idea how hard it is to get citizenship? Hell, when my grandmother died, it was arranged that she be buried in the United States. She had another daughter in Nicaragua and my mother tried to get her to come to the U.S to attend the funeral. After a frustrating week of documents, appealing for visas, sending money, they rejected it. She wasn’t allowed to come even for a day, to say goodbye to her mother.
Coming legally is a difficult process. Especially if you come from a poor country. Getting citizenship is even more difficult.
Why deny an illegal something that should already be a human right? These immigrants don’t “take your jobs”. No one who was born in the States wants to grow up to pick tomatoes for Chipotle for less than minimum wage. They work harder than most, yet get close to nothing. For their back-breaking labor, they deserve health care.
Just a shame that the U.S health care system is flawed.
- Kunoichi
First impulse: They are illegal! They don’t deserve anything under the law.
But upon thinking, they are not doing it for the fun. They have their issues why they are having to clandestinely enter a new country etc, so I think it’s better they pay than get it for free. But upon more thinking, being in the situation they’re in, they probably can’t even afford it… God, that’s hard.
But yeah, if they are gonna pay for it, why shouldn’t they be allowed?
@phantomFive - So, in your world, who or what determines what is “right” especially if the threat of death isn’t a deterrent.
On the surface it appears that the notion of illegal aliens getting insurance is an issue of caring about human beings and their well-being, but that is just not true.
Honestly, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who would flat out deny medical attention to a person who’s just been involved in a serious accident and needs emergency medical treatment. Why? Because most people value human life on some basic level.
But this question isn’t about that kind of scenario. This issue is about people who have disregarded our judicial guidelines and are in this country illeally. Whether a person should own a house, get car insurance, dental coverage, or win a talent show are all moot points if they are here illegally.
If they are here without regard to our legal system they should be detained and deported, even when they go to buy insurance, go for (emergency) medical treatment, or go to the grocery store.
As long as they are 100% paying for it without any help from the government (OUR tax dollars) I say why not? They deserve to get good health care.
When illegal immigrants are identified they should be made legal or sent back. Period.
@gwacemom@momaroo - that’s exactly what I was going to say. They get ER care regardless of whether they buy coverage or not so we might as well get some money from them. The thing is you need a SSN to buy insurance from what I understand so the INS will find them and deport them when they do buy coverage.
Here’s the issue with illegals and emergency rooms. Most of them are not getting emergency care they are going to the hospital because they are not going to get care at regular doctors’ offices, because they are not legal residence, so they go in and rack up thousands of dollars in hospital bills for colds, flu, etc. The answer is not insurance options or amnesty the answer is a secure border, and deportation, in adition the US should start implementing a monetary fine to mexico and canada for each of their citizens that are jailed here, or deported back.
As for the free trade agreement it has nothing what so ever to do with illegal border crossing, so save that for a different discussion.
@fivepts - I figure I should. I’m the one who has to pay the consequences if I’m wrong, after all, so it’s not really a decision I want to hand to someone else.
@KrazeeKunoichi009 - heh….the reason they run around without clothes is because clothes are a pain to keep clean when your kids are playing in the dirt streets.
Other than that, they are poor, I admit.
@phantomFive - Interesting. If I think I’m right, you think you’re right, some one else thinks they are right…obviously some one is wrong and there’s going to be one heck of a gunfight. I find your “you’re not the boss o’ me” attitude a bit sophomoric.
@fivepts - In practice I’ve had no problem resolving disputes without resorting to violence (and when I have resorted to violence, it didn’t prove anything except that we were a couple of idiots). I have no desire to shoot you or anyone else, and doubt you do either. Ultimately, who should decide what is right and wrong? If it comes to a life and death situation, no one will be deciding for me.
immigrants – yes.. ILLEGAL immigrants.. HECK NO!!!
you would think that we were in a time of nativist revival-oh shit, we are!
I don’t see how that could be a fair or financially good decision on the part of the government. That said, I think that the U.S. should make it easier for people to live in this country legally, I think given the chance these “illegal aliens” would be a fortunate addition to the U.S. community.
I believe they should be able to get insurance if they pay for it. Children do receive it even if they are illegal. I don’t understand why anyone would say no to this. Honestly if they pay for it, why not? I’m not saying free health care and take our tax money, but why not get what you pay for?
We actually had this conversation in one of my classes, and I also read a few others commenting either send them back or become citizens. You do understand most of these immigrants don’t come here because it’s so amazing to be here, they come because this is their only way to live, and I believe that they would become citizens if it was so easy.
@xplodinglastbullet - exactly. it doesn’t make sense that we would give them things while they’re here illegally…
We need to switch to the FairTax.
Hell no!
The health insurance fraud and they all start with the wrong insurance agent. Of course there nothing else you should ask officials to false because these people will automatically lead to bogus insurance companies. There are many things you can see from these same agents. Some of them are Impatience – You said you always are willing to sign the contract. Usually when an attempt by insurance agents to generate real opportunities for health insurance giving a period during which these potential customers and they can think of a good decision.
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