November 12, 2009
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Are Women Treated Like They are Not As Smart?
I was watching Foxnews tonight and I caught a few minutes of the O’Reilly Factor and Bill was interviewing two women and talking about how women like Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton are treated harsher by the media.
One of the woman said that it wasn’t just in politics. She said that women are treated like they are not as smart in the work place and about every other environment.
Are women treated like they are not as smart as men?
Comments (129)
They’re only treated that way because they’re not.
Yes. Makes life so much easier on the one hand, ’cause you can get away with things, but so frustrating and infuriating.
I’m so sick of men telling me that I’m intelligent and interesting like it’s surprising and something that deserves praise. Intelligence is a baseline requirement from my perspective and it should be expected of everyone unconditionally.
I can’t believe in 2009 this is still an issue >.<
don’t get all Katie Couric with me,now
Well, Palin is dumb as fuck. However, I do agree that women are treated like they are less intelligent than their male counterparts.
Women are assumed to be emotional, not logical. Thus gaining a reputation of being less intelligent.
I think maybe they are.
But also, girls – you’re treated precisely how you allow yourself to be treated.
Don’t victimize yourself.
@Finity - I hate to break it to you, but from a man’s perspective, women might be seen as less intelligent because they more often think with their hearts rather than their minds.
If we agree with them we fawn over them, almost patronizingly at times. And if we disagree with them we demand that they take off their shoes and go back to the kitchen. This afflicts both conservatives and liberals, and there are plenty of female enablers on both sides as well.
Well, Palin is dumber than a pile of bricks, nuttier than squirrel shit, and scarier than the thought of another Transformers sequel.
of course
yea, I saw that on O’Reilly. I don’t really agree. I do, however, think women are treated like they’re not as tough or resilient.
@schallerbrandon - That’s completely true and most of the time we’re completely irrational, or function based on “women’s intuition” to boot. That’s not the point. We can still sit down and analyze and problem solve, and for whatever reason men seem to expect otherwise.
most of the time, i’d say.
maybe
haha it cracks me up when people rag on Palin. Hollywood-controlled peons.
(but, no, I don’t care for her, either.)
Palin and Clinton are really bad examples, pick someone who doesn’t just want the limelight.
The problem here is that it’s not a misconception. Many women get by on their looks and don’t have to develop an intellect or a personality, like male models. So, yes, when a woman comes by that is intelligent it genuinely is rather surprising and outside of the norm.
@Finity - Can and do are not the same thing.
@striemmy - Whaaa…? You’re joking, right?
It’s shameful but true that women are still treated (mostly inadvertently) as less-than.
@striemmy - You must hang out with low-quality women.
I know that guys will act like I don’t know how to do something all the time. But then again, I work at a hardware store. They probably just don’t want me to hurt myself. LOL
Depends on the topic.
@the_mamarazzi - Not particularly. I’m not saying that women are inherently less intelligent. I’m saying that many of them grow up not having the necessity or desire to develop much more than their interpersonal skills and fashion sense. And then there’s the question of what defines intelligent. My standards of intelligence are rarely met by members of the same sex, let alone the opposite sex. I apologize if this sounds sexist but this has been my overall experience of women. And, before you assume that I know nothing but brainless broads, I assure you I know many women that reach the intellectual standard I define as smart. The number that do just doesn’t compare with the total in such a way for it to paint a positive picture for me.
what are you talking?? there are tons of highly intelligent women out there and those people who think smart women are a rare breed need to take a long and hard look at themselves and ask…what have I done that made me so superior?
@RaVnR - ^Called it.
:Edit:
Actually, I’m interested in taking this farther. What would give you that impression? And, while we’re at it, what do you say to the preponderance of evidence that brain masculinization impacts males in such a way as to have better spatial and logical intelligences than their female counterparts?
where’s my sammich, goddammit?!
Real women seem to be treated as not as smart as men. However, many fictional women are portrayed as being smarter than the men they are surrounded by. It’s become a sitcom staple that a hot and intelligent woman is married to a dumb and fat man.
there are people out there that still are sexist.
Depends on the person. Some people- both genders- don’t think of women as terribly intelligent. Others have no prejudice. It really depends on who you’re dealing with.
Clinton = conservative lightning rod.
Well, we all know about Palin.
Yes! If smart women aren’t somewhat assertive, no one will listen to their opinion. And when they are assertive and take control, they are called “a bitch!” In contrast, men who are assertive leaders are admired.
In everyday life- definitely treated as less intelligent by men
At school- treated like I’m smarter than men by any gender teacher
YES!!!
My father treats my mother, my sister, and me like we just don’t have the capacity to understand what it is he’s doing. Even though I can get the same thing done in a fraction of the time.
Yes, but I think it has to do with our wiring. Women are programmed to be more emotional than men, who are wired to be more logical. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule. I think it’s perceived as not being as smart. I honestly prefer having a man as a boss or someone I report to directly to, and given a choice, I’d prefer to have a male President over a female because of this. I’m sure the feminists are going to love my reply…
yes and i find that funny seeing how women are proven better mutlitaskers than men
It really depends on who is doing the treating. I have been treated by other women who have careers as not as intelligent, for choosing to be a stay at home mom. I have completely pissed off men when they discover I know more than they do on a subject; but at the same time, I have made a lot of friends because I can provide intelligent conversation. One thing that irks me is when women pretend to be dumb just to flatter some insecure man! However, I have noticed at times genuine surprise that I have a functioning brain. This was what my husband liked best about me.
@AibellFaeire - So when a man calls a woman dumb she is LETTING herself be treated like that? The bad stuff men do to women is THEIR fault? fucking Idiot.
Yes, they actually are. A few weeks ago, I went to the Women in Astronomy conference, and one of the talks addressed unconscious bias. One of the things that was found was that a person would first go to a male professional, then a male layman, before going to a woman, even if she was the most qualified. Both men and women did this. There is definitely a bias.
@striemmy - go pick cotton
@ShimmerBodyCream - Cute parallel, hun, but not quite. =)
Don’t tell me you’re catering to the stereotype and don’t intend on responding intelligently, dear?
@striemmy - Nigger if you had an intelligent response you wouldn’t have been told to go pick cotton.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Not what I’m saying at all. If a man calls a woman dumb, he obviously has a lot to learn. If she lets it continue without standing up for herself, then she is letting herself be a victim.
There will obviously be times when standing up for yourself doesn’t make the other person back down and I am not at all saying it is her fault that she was treated badly. Just that if you want to be treated with respect, don’t take anything other than respect.
Also, I would have understood your point without the name calling, and I would appreciate it if, in your reply, you responded without it. I would love to continue this discussion with you, because I think it is one with many facets that needs to be had, but if you’re going to call me an idiot, then it’s not really worth my time.
(And I find it slightly ironic that you’re upset about men calling women dumb, but when you call me, another woman, an idiot for voicing an opinion, that’s perfectly fine.)
@ShimmerBodyCream - That’s correct.
If You had an intelligent response I wouldn’t have been told to go pick cotton, sweetheart.
Yes.
@striemmy - The difference is when you try to sound intelligent you just end up sounding like a fucking idiot. So go listen to rap music and eat grits.
Personally, I have never run into that problem. Probably because I’m asian.
@AibellFaeire - I didn’t call you an idiot because you were a woman. I called you an idiot because your a fucking idiot and blame victims for their problems.
Thanks for proving my point fucktard.
yes
@ShimmerBodyCream - Actually, I’ve been listening to rap music this entire time. I haven’t been eating grits though. Some nice stir fried broccoli, rather.
Correct again. I don’t try to sound intelligent. I am intelligent. I’m sure if I tried to sound the way I naturally am it would sound pretty idiotic, baby.
that’s cus women are dumb! duh
@striemmy - Obviously, because you’re a fucking nigger. and besides collecting welfare and sitting in a jail cell that is what you people do.
Female politicians catch a lot more flak for their idiocy (when it’s exhibited) than men do. e.g. Joe Biden should probably be criticized just as harshly as Palin, but he isn’t.
I know if I offer a philosophical solution or a problem-solving solution, most men look askance at it and don’t accept it as viable until I’ve earned my credibility with them. It should be noted, my brothers do indeed listen when I help them work out problems — in construction, in life, in love, in time management, in policy — but I have had to earn it.
I think the problem isn’t so much that women are treated like they’re *not* smart, but that men are treated like they *are.* People assume a man is smart and credible unless he proves himself in some catastrophic way to be otherwise.
This is an interesting issue.
But…but…women ARE dumber than men. That’s a given.
You know what so interesting here is all the anger over something that is simply overhyped by media. I find it quite funny.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Aww, dumping, don’t get too riled up! Is it that time of the month? Or maybe you’ve come down with female hysteria and we need to get you a vibrator. That is what they were invented to cure, sugarlump.
Are you serious? Hillary Clinton has been called many things by her enemies but no one has ever called her stupid. In fact if anything people seem to be intimidated by just how smart she is. Now Sarah Palin was shown and has repeatedly been shown to be lacking in the….brainpower department. The greatest example of her lack of knowledge was brought forward in her interviews with Katie Couric who in no slouch when it comes to intelligence. I admire the issue being raised but take Sarah Palin out of the equation. In no way is she Hillary’s match or equal when it comes to reasoning skills…
@striemmy - Yeah. I don’t know how to cure it. Usually it would be by attending my KKK meetings to make sure the niggers stop ruining our communities but I missed it because I get stuck talking to fucking niggers like you.
If they let themselves be treated that way. Women can demand respect, but if they don’t lead respectful lives, do they really deserve it?
Well, I do believe that women do have to work twice as hard to prove their capableness and intelligence. The media definitely jumps on women in a way they don’t do to men.
That said, just like some men are more intelligent than others, some women are more intelligent than others. While Hillary Clinton seems immensely accomplished, SP does come across as silly.
@ShimmerBodyCream - You’re such a kidder! Honey, you know you’re not allowed to leave the kitchen except for childbirth related emergencies! You’re so cute. How far would you even be able to go naked and barefoot?
It is not simply how we perceive women in a work place. I work in R&D, but I have noticed females are more likly to use the phrase “I feel that ….” where a male will use, “I think that….”.
It is not men who cast women as being less intelligent, a tleast from my experience.
I think women are treated “harsher” because physically they are less intimidating, stereotypically are known to be more emotion driven and less practical than our male counterparts. We also have softer/higher pitched voices which subconsciously do not help our case.
@striemmy - Considering niggers are 7 times more likely to go to jail than cultured white people I don’t think I’m going to be able to send you food from the Prison’s kitchen.
Let’s look at facts
Niggers are 7times more likely to go to jail.
Women have a higher degree percentage.
Niggers have a lot lower percentage of getting degrees compared to white people.
Proof again, that you niggers will only be just niggers and should be shipped back to Africa instead of ruining white communities.
See the irony is that women are smarter. (*runs for cover)
The guys I hang out with take me seriously, at least when I want them to. The one time in my life that I remember being treated like I was less intelligent than the people who were treating me that way was more because I was a musician and they were engineering students, not because I was a woman and they were men.
yes they do. >:|
@SecretNeverTold - That’s a very interesting way of looking at it.
@dlmcniel - So do men just automatically deserve respect, or do they have to earn it, too?
@EccentricSiren - Well, it’s not scientific; it’s just a regular theory based on my own experience. It seems like a man in a suit garners instant credibility; women have to subtly prove theirs, but without appearing brash or arrogant. It’s a tough line to walk. Men get away with a lot more than women can, from what I’ve seen; their moments of stupidity are viewed as just that: moments — while women’s moments of stupidity are viewed as indicators of intelligence as deep as, oh, a kitchen sink. :p
Sometimes they are, but the Sarah Palin incident wasn’t just because she was a chick.
I would agree that women tend to be treated as less intelligent.
I think they could be sometimes…
@striemmy - I would change that from many to some. Although, in my current profession I feel the need to agree with you.
@ShimmerBodyCream - I can only hope that you are not a woman, but a transvestite of sorts. If not, you’ve only made the point that women are stupid. Yes, rely on your gigantic tits to get you by, because you have not proven that there is a functioning braincell in your skull.
I always knew you were an idiot, but for once, try to add something to the conversation that’s worthwhile.
If stupidity was a quantifiable trait and proven to be equal to
the number of intentionally hostile comments a person has made on Dan’s blog
divided by that person’s total number of comments made on Dan’s blog,
which gender’s stupidity would be larger?
@misuriver - yep. It totally went over your head, didn’t it?
@ShimmerBodyCream - Yeah, right past it. Whew!
@misuriver - Did you address the original sexist comment or are you just going to address the racist ones?
Don’t compare Palin and Clinton. They are on two different levels.
Yes.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Yes I did. I told him many is not the correct description, but some is. We both know that some women are that way. A lot more than I would like, but that is the way it is. Why do you think the concept of a sugar daddy hasn’t disappeared yet?
Look at Fox and Friends. Beautiful women, with higher education degrees no doubt, and they sound like idiots. Their only job is to real people in with their looks and pretend to know what they are talking about. Although the men do the same thing, the women are expected to purely from their looks. Elizabeth Hasselbeck, a plethora of celebrities, John McCain’s daughter, Sarah Palin, nearly every Beauty Pagent (have you heard some of those answers), strippers (not exotic entertainers…strippers), Music video “dancers” (not all of course), models… the list goes on.
On that same note, men can just rely on their physical prowess and sometimes their good looks to get them through and they will still be dumber than a bag of rocks.
He simply pointed out something that is a real problem. It doesn’t or shouldn’t affect you, if you are truly not one of those women.
@misuriver - What you said and what he said are totally different
So, yes, when a woman comes by that is intelligent it genuinely is rather surprising and outside of the norm.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Yes, right now it is. It has been that way for a while, and it current media obsession with idiot women does not help. Even I find myself thinking the same thing. It is not that women are incapable, it is that society still does not expect them to be, no matter the progress that we have already made.
In your own blogs you speak of thinking past the lines (rough paraphrasing), If you had practiced that, you would have noticed his true meaning.
@misuriver - The number that do just doesn’t compare with the total in such a way for it to paint a positive picture for me.
Summation:Personal experience leads him to believe women on average are not as intelligent. Or they do not come off that way.It is not only sexist, but illogical.
You are the one that missed the true meaning, giving too much credit where it is not due.
However, I have no qualms with your intended meaning.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Fair enough, but I don’t see him as saying that women are not intelligent. Simply that so many of us, which is true, do not use said intelligence as much. I even experience it. I don’t agree with society. There are a lot of us that are incredibly intelligent, but like others have said, so many forgo it to get along with their male counterparts. It still happens, just not as bad as in the old day, thank Innana!
@misuriver - Personal experience is not applicable to an argument when using it in place of a statistic(s). What he said was completely illogical.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Agreed,and I made the correction. Your way of handling it, solved nothing. You have a pretty solid argument. Why didn’t you use it in the first place?
@misuriver - Because I live to entertain you bby.
Women don’t use their heads, so of COURSE they’re going to be treated as such. Always going with that they FEEL instead of common sense or logic. Maybe if they weren’t so damned emotional all the time. I also don’t get what they’re always so upset about..making sandwiches isn’t THAT hard.
- Kunoichi
I believe young men and women are generally not treated as smart individuals.
@KrazeeKunoichi009 - omg that made me cry. my feelinz
@Kevin_is_a_pirate - I know! everyone always told me 2009 would be THE year that everyone stopped being sexist!
Umm duh. I feel like this is a common fact of life.
@ShimmerBodyCream - LOL. Someone gets it!
@ShimmerBodyCream - Ooh, interesting! I didn’t know soap operas were so informative. Or are they? According to mid-year 2008 bureau of justice statistics there are actually 3.3% more white inmates in prison than african american inmates. By the way, did you know that next to half of the jail population in the united states is Caucasoid?
Women have a higher degree percentage right until you get to the doctorate and professional degrees. Did you know there are almost double the number of men getting doctoral degrees than women, Sweetie? Did you know that, in my state at least, you have to get a masters to pursue a teaching career? There are a lot of female teachers. I wonder what those numbers would look like if they weren’t required to. =)
African Americans make up 14% of the population, while Caucasians make up 66%. Of course more Caucasians are going to college and getting degrees, Doll face. There are more of them.
You got anything better than that? Perhaps some better research this time?
@striemmy - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12154123 There’s the article stupid nigger, if you can actually read it.
The high percentage of whites is because of our higher population. However, for their low population, niggers are 7times more likely to be in jail.
And out of the doctorate degrees what percent do niggers get?
And that is why you should be shipped back to Africa.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Well, the words used aren’t too far advanced from the mangled english you managed to pick up off of television subtitles and recipe books and I’ve understood your hormonal rambling thus far. Shouldn’t be too problematic. =)
Petitio Principii, Circulus in Probando. That conclusion does not inherently follow the premises that the statistics lay down unless you’re arguing in circles. The only thing the numbers show is that there are population differences and that the jail populations of the two races are similar. Any prediction about the likelihood of individuals not currently incarcerated becoming inmates at some point in the future or that other generations will have a similar percentage of criminals comparable is an assumption and not supported by the facts. Unless there are inmates that are released and commit subsequent crimes and get incarcerated again, they are unrelated and inconsequential to each other.
Could have sworn we already went over the statistical imbalance there. What more of a point do you hope to procure from it? Except for the fact that if the population counts were equal that African Americans would have more doctorate holders than women? Well, that’s not the case. Of course, that also isn’t taking into account that on average statistics show that african american households have lower annual income than that of other ethnic groups. So, if that imbalance was also corrected, that would put a more appropriate number to the table to play with.
Back to Africa would imply that I’ve ever been there, you nutty broad. I’m American.
@ShimmerBodyCream - 1) Wherein did Dan ask for a logical argument as a response to his entry?
2) Based on the data that I have personally experienced that is the logical conclusion. Sexism had nothing to do with it save perhaps for the fact that I’ve had the chance to be exposed to more women than men, which would only effect my perception when placed in contrast to the relatively small pool of men I’ve interacted with on an intellectual level.
3) Just because you value statistics as a trusted source of information does not validate them as such. They are numbers generated by organizations that do not expound on any of the variables that affect those numbers.
4) The process of brain masculinization in the womb. Research it. One wouldn’t suppose you’ve bothered to do any research on the fact that men, on average, are more adept at spatial and logical thinking, the types most commonly associated with intelligence, as opposed to emotional and interpersonal. That’s probably asking for too much.
@striemmy - Jail populations are not similar. See you dumb nigger. I didn’t think you’d be able to grasp a basic concept like percentages and ratios.
Your personal experience isn’t relevant data. Take a social science class if you can get through a whole lesson without trying to stab your fellow students or steal something.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Nor did I think you’d be able to grasp the concept of statistical inaccuracy as it relates to variables in the data unrelated to population size or an ecological fallacy. How right you proved me, babycakes.
I already have and personal data is the only relevant data to come to personal conclusions. Statistics, which are wholly inaccurate and inefficient ways of tracking data are not as valid as first hand information in forming personal conclusions or any conclusions really, save for in the field of science where statistical and case data is all they have to go on to continue functioning. You can exercise trust regarding this particular data source and believe it but, like with all second hand information, you can’t ever know it. Though, I don’t expect a silly dame like you to grasp that concept either.
Shouldn’t you be making my breakfast, wench?
@striemmy - No, I agree. If you aren’t going to use logic or be scientific or factual – personal experience is the best and most reliable way to go through life.
That’s why you keep your fuckin doors locked in a black neighborhood and that’s why you can’t trust niggers.
Most niggers steal shit, are in prison, or are in gangs. People use this PC bullshit but don’t use common sense experience.
See, this is where you and I agree even though you are a stupid nigger.
Perhaps women who occupy high status positions in society are expected to proove their worth more simply because men still have the best paid jobs and highest positions in society which, in turn, gives them more power. They may not necessarily be ‘brighter’ than women. Women who ‘make it’ in what I still believe is a ‘man’s’ world are therefore treated more harshly by the media and public at large. It’s as if they have to proove their worth and how they got to the top. However, males from a young age (despite their intellectual levels or capacities) are encouraged to aim high, be highly competitive and become successful in their careers. That’s the cultural norm, even in societies boasting to be open and meritocratic societies which endorse and support the gender equality ideal.
For Dan’s visually impaired readers, here is a dramatic reading of the entire argument in streaming MP3:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/68409299d10783ff/
sadly, people do… when a woman is with a group of men (not friends, but colleagues or club members), somehow the men would fail to see her point of view. This would lead to them believing that she is dumber than them; different wavelength…
When a man is amongst a group of women, not only do the women listen attentively, they also learn to respect a different viewpoint.
Thats why it is made to appear, that women seem dumber than men and hence are treated thus
Women like Palin enforce that idea……. Hey! the woman would make a good soap star queen.
yes they are. but it’s only because they have a brain 1/3 the size of a man’s. It’s science.
The point O’Reilly was trying to make is that conservative women are treated stupid, and even this simple thread proved he was right. Sarah Palin has accomplished more by the age of 45 than most men can even dream of accomplishing. Yet the first post you get is from some dweeb wearing his mother’s make-up (probably between shifts at Whataburger) calling her dumb. Trust me girls, if you want to be treated like an idiot, just find yourself a good liberal guy.
It really depends on the woman. My mum is treated like the smartest woman there, and all the men respect and look up to her. But then if you act dumb, you won’t be treated smart, no matter where you lie in the hierarchy.
@SecretNeverTold - Yeah, that tends to be my experience, too. And I think part of it goes back to the stereotype that a woman can’t be both beautiful and smart.
@jupiter312 - very interesting…. But that study just applied to astronomy I’m guessing. I think which field they are in plays a huge role to whether a women is automatically considered inferior. I generally consider female engineers smarter than males even though I’m a male and that’s probably because there are so few of them that the ones I meet are exceptional. Then again I was raised by a feminist so maybe my mother is solely to blame, lol.
@heyfrank - hahaha. Conservatives are far more likely to see a women as inferior. Palin may be smart but just about everything she says makes her look like an idiot. I’m pretty sure most of her accomplishments, like most politicians, came from her charisma and not her intellect. John Stewart dissected Palin’s resignation speech and it was full of factual and grammatical errors. Maybe calling her an idiot is unfair, how about intellectually average?
No.
Palin was a huge step backwards for women in politics…and Hilary just comes off like a phoney ice queen…there are females in politics that i respect but none of them are American…
@locketine - It happens a lot in the sciences, but it is true that it depends on field.
The majority of the time, yes. But, that doesn’t mean that we really aren’t smart or that we should really feel like we aren’t.
I doubt its something that’s going to completely change, but that’s just how things are.
Yes.
I’ve known pretty girls to play dumb for social reasons.
Let’s be brutally honest about this. Any woman can play the “gender card” and Palin is an expert at it. Not many women of her limited abilities would be willing to put themselves in the position that Palin did (that is to say, most would be smart enough not to let themselves get into that situation) and she paid for it dearly. She should have been smart enough to just say no to McCain and walk away. But she dove in over her head and has been trying to blame someone, anyone for it ever since. Her lack of ability to be held accountable for her own actions was painfully obvious in the way she drug her kids and family into the fray, and then lambasted the press for ever mentioning their short-comings. We all know how it would have went if one of Obama’s girls were a little older and turned out to be an unwed mother. We all know how the repugs would have handled that situation. The press was actually very forgiving of her on that topic. She got what she deserved, nothing more and nothing less. And yes, I really do believe in my heart of hearts, it would not have been any different if it had been a male. Case in point, Dan Quayle. Also, look at Hillary Clinton. I would have voted for her for President in a heartbeat. Many people would have, gender be damned. The final analysis is an analysis of ability. Not gender.
I know a woman who recently had an operation to become one. She says she is treated with less respect from her coworkers that don’t know she was ever male.
Dumb people are called out for it all the time, man or woman. Dumb women just sometimes spin it as sexism or dumb minorities spin it as racism if they are that shameless.
no that’s just a bunch of feminist bullshit propaganda. I’m a woman and I can say that patriarchy is a fallacy made up by a bunch of spoiled upper class little girls who are never satisfied.
@velvetrevolverchick87 - Because of woman like Palin, we get treated as though we’re stupid.
@evil_dragonfly - I agree. And I think it’s horrible that the world bases how to treat women because one is so dumb.
Yes, sometimes.
It happens to me all the time at church. I’ll be with the guys and if they can’t figure something out and I step up and say something- they shoot it down and just laugh at me.
Though… most of the time, I’m right.
@ShimmerBodyCream - [Obviously, because you're a fucking nigger.
and besides collecting welfare and sitting in a jail cell that is what
you people do.]
What… the… FUCK?!?!
Are you fucking serious?!
Yep. That’s sexism for ya. ^^
are they? that’s an interesting concept… my family believes that men are the stupid ones, not the women. maybe that’s just because I live in a house with 3 females and only 2 males…?