November 18, 2009
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Would Jesus Want Me To Punch the Bully?
I have been reading all of these stories about people being bullied and I am reminded once again of the victim mentality of our society.
Everyone is being picked on or has been hurt by society.
That is why I don’t like to use the term “bully.” Instead, I like to think of it as a growing process in which we learn to interact with others. The reality is that when we are growing up, we are surrounded by people who are immature at the same time we are trying to grow in maturity. We made mistakes while maturing and so did the people that surrounded us.
In my opinion, I was never bullied. Now I tried to never throw the first punch in a fight. But if someone messed with me, I would find myself punching the person if I felt it was needed.
Now our victim mentality would tell us that all of us have been bullied. I remember when I was growing up that three kids jumped me. They punched me over and over again for about 20 minutes. I had to go to the hospital and I was bruised up nicely. Was I bullied? No. Three kids decided they were going to teach me a lesson about something and so they got together and hit me a bunch of times. I went to one of the kid’s house before I went to the hospital and I beat the crap out of him one on one. The next day at school, I hit one of the other kid’s head against one of the lockers (I received swats for that. It was worth it).
Did I bully those kids? No. I simply built appropriate boundaries around our relationship. Kids learn to build boundaries when they are growing up. Because we are in the process of maturing, we sometimes use physical action in order to build those boundaries.
I remember a kid bumping me in the walkway one time on purpose. I punched him in the face. Was he a bully for pushing me? No. He simply didn’t like me. Since he pushed me, I didn’t like him either so I expressed this by punching him in the face. I received in-school suspension for that fight. I remember another kid tossed my book off to the side. He was a 7th grader but he flunked twice. He went around starting fights with people all the time and people were afraid of him. In 7th grade, he weighed over 200 pounds. I didn’t like him throwing my book so I walked up to him and punched him in the face. He hit me back really hard. A few teachers jumped between us. Did this kid bully me? No. He messed with me. Did I bully him? No. I punched him.
We get older and we realize that we can’t just punch each other anymore so we sometimes give others words of acceptance or words of rejection. We can even get others to join us in our rejection of others. No amount of education will fix that problem. So we have to learn to build verbal boundaries with others.
My point is that if you think you are bullied, you think you are a victim. If you don’t want to be a victim, you need to stand up for yourself. That just doesn’t change as you get older. It is called functioning in society. We don’t do anyone any favors by suggesting they don’t need to build their own boundaries. We don’t do anyone any favors by trying to remove conflict from their lives. When Jesus said to turn the other cheek, I think He was referring to a general attitude. I don’t think he was saying to just let people punch you or walk all over you.
The reality is that you are not a victim or at least you don’t have to be.
If someone punched you, would you punch him/her back?
Comments (90)
If someone punched me now, I would punch back without a second thought. I would stand up for myself.
No, I’d wait– then I’d stab him in the back.
INTERNETBULLYS D:
although i definitely do not agree with you, this was interesting to read.
you were a very hostile child.
Of course I wouldn’t punch back if someone punched me. Jesus said to turn the other cheek. I think it shows much more strength to take a punch and not punch back, than to punch back.
It’s hard for me to imagine you punching someone. Well, I don’t know what you really look like. Maybe you have a mean face.
I would never pick a fight, but I will fight back if someone else starts it.
As much as I want to say that I would, I probably wouldn’t.
No, I’m a wimp. And you, my friend, were a bad boy.
Wow, we kind of had similar experience in that shit. Weird. Wouldn’t have thought we’d have “smashing someone if they messed with you” in common, Dan. Hah.
KNOCK HIS TEEF OUT
no man that would make me a hypocrite.
i don’t punch people.
If someone punched me, I would punch them back. Or slap/kicked me etc, you get the point.
you mess with the best, and you die like the rest.
Only if I thought I could take him.
You always struck me as the kind to avoid fights.
Yeah, if I was hit, I’d hit ‘em back.
Interesting read. I always think of bullying as someone being mean to you repeatedly and you can’t win them. In your case you did, but sometimes you’re too small or out numbered or just plain not strong enough. It happens -__-
What’s with the trend of blogs? First it was rape blogs, then abuse, now bullies…kind of annoying.
I wish you wrote more posts like this. When you get right down to the shit, – you really make a lot of sense and I respect the hell out of you. You and I have the same view on this. I’m glad you did this topic justice.
Good one Dan
Every detention I got for fighting back was well worth it.
@LauraG0929 - Visit me. I’m trendless, useless, brainless, – OK I do have half a brain I’ve been told.
@LauraG0929 - We’re a trend society. I like to watch for the trends on here. This happens to be this weeks.
As for the answer to your question, I don’t know. Sometimes, fighting back is knee jerk other times not so much. It depends. :0)
Yes I would. I have no qualms about fighting, physically or verbally.
lol. i would get my sister to fight them. hahaha.
xo
So much more interesting than the recycling news posts. These remind me why I originally started reading Theo.
just as hard as my limp-wristed gay fist could !! on second thought, maybe i’d just bitch slap him !
I like this post.
I enjoy your posts,
But I enjoy this one because its one of more substance than you normally post.
Props.
Last time someone punched me I just took the punch, and the guy ran off. Now I’ve learned to use my eyes and voice to avoid violent conflict. You need to be willing to defend yourself but realize the threat of the punch is often worse than actually punching someone.
Did the 200 pound 7th grader ever make it past that grade? He clearly had problems.
Punch me, I’ll punch you back and add a “Fuck off!” just to end it.
Not unless I thought my life, or the wellbeing of someone else, was in danger.
It depends, if I did something, said something they didn’t like that I shouldn’t have, I probably would let it go. I called it being picked on when I was in school, because I was tall, skinny and well, just goofy. I was picked on by upper classmen because of my basketball ability and taking their starting place on the Senior high time. I usually let them all slide and didn’t get into fights. The one big time as a Junior I didn’t fight back and the two that tried to fight me, ended up getting kicked off the team for a whole nother reason. So did God redeem me for taking the abuse and not fighting back, I really don’t know. I’ll ask Him when I get to Heaven. We won the championship that year by the way!
@dikdoktor - Nice.
I already gave my stories. After years of being bullied I finally fought back and beat the shit out of them. Then people started liking me.
I’d think that if someone punched me that I would totally punch them back. But mostly because I act without thinking. If someone so much as even pushes me at a party I, in half a second, push back with enough force to be considered starting a fight.
I think you are spot on with regard to the distinction between bullying and simple interpersonal violence. I have been in a few scuffles but never with serious consequences. A few times as a kid, few times as a young adult, and unfortunately a few times much later than that. I am really old enough to know better but I feel I was prudent responding to the situation as needed. I just don’t like to eat sh1t.
Bullying is the long term abuse of a helpless person who does not or cannot prevent his or her persecution. This has led to some sad cases of children committing suicide to escape their abuse and in every case it is a tragedy. In *all* my real life fights I had an opponent who was capable of beating me. I was never violent or intimidated those who were weaker in body or spirit. I certainly never fought anyone who hadn’t harmed me first.
In short I need to feel *justified* when I fought back. Bullies are never justified. They prey on the weak because they themselves are weak.
Now here is where I draw the line in the Christian sense. Jesus told us to turn the cheek when someone is offending us. “Turning the cheek” is directly referring to someone who has *already hit you*. Matt 5:39
Jesus’ model for personal social injustice is novel among worldviews. If you are being hurt by someone DO NOT FIGHT BACK.
This is only part of the story however. Paul tells us we shouldn’t maintain sinful relationships (marriage is a different case) so we are fully capable as Christians to cut harmful people out of our lives. The NT goes so far as suggest cutting ties with family if need be. But we are never sanctioned to retaliate against our enemies.
But we are able to defend others. When *someone else* is being abused we are *morally* obligated to defend them. This may or may not involve violence. If someone is physically harming a child for example, it is your Christian duty to physically intervene in whatever way saves that child. The Apostles carried swords. Matt 14:47 et al. Why was that? It isn’t explicited explained but I know it wasn’t to avenge personal grievances. I believe that they were for protecting others. Looking at the role of the “peacemaker” as listed in the Beatitudes it can be inferred that violence may occur when defending another but one cannot take it too far. I would suggest whatever is necessary to achieve an end to the suffering of the victim can be justified but nothing more.
The Orthodox Church sees “peacemaker” in Matt 5:9 as the bringer of spiritual peace. That kind of peace can be the result of physically protecting the weak but it probably doesn’t occur by hitting people in the face to restore pride or to settle a score.
Just my two cents.
I’m a martial arts instructor, I think that’s an easy question for you to figure out my answer to.
I would not punch them back. I’d find a way to restore my dignity and shame them while also giving them an opportunity to recognize their wrongdoing and change their ways so that we could live in peace together.
I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. For example, am I still awake, how bad am I hurt, how fast are they running….
I like how you illustrate your way of making Christianity teach what you want it to.
Turn the other cheek was a metaphor, nonviolence was the message not another piece of text to interpreted as a metaphor.
Non violence was emphasized in my upbringing. It would take a lot to get a violent reaction from me. By high school I perfected my method of joking around with anyone who tried to act bully like. As a consequence some rather violent people started to like me, thus negating the need for me to defend myself.
Jesus saying “turn the other cheek” was a form of active non-violent resistance in which the person was forced to humiliate themselves by hitting you.
mama said knock you out… at least my mama did.
the motto she gave me was no free punches…
yes, I have and would again.
great post, by the way.
I like how you put more info about yourself in this. Made it more interesting.
You remind me of my dad. His elementary/middle school had a small pack of aggressive white-supremacist boys and he and the other not-racist boys would fight them for using racial slurs and picking on the minority kids and stuff. (The nicer kids would always tell them to shut up and stuff first but the snotty kids had really big egos and it inevitably would come to blows.) As he puts it, “It was war, every day at recess…” and he says it with a rather pleased gleam in his eye. My dad and his friends generally won but everyone would come home looking a bit bruised up, naturally. The teachers just watched. My grandpa became concerned and visited the principal asking if my dad was causing trouble. The principal said nah, that he was just what those racist boys needed. Beating racism out of our schools, one punch at a time.
I don’t know what Jesus would have done, but I’m rather proud of my dad.
I have a body guard for that…
Seriously, I’d use judo, and the ass wouldn’t connect. If he attacked from behind, it would take about 6 seconds for him to be on the ground with me on top screaming, “Help! I’m being attacked!”
I just got off the phone with another parent. She has three 13 year old boys. These triplets are the size of most 16 year old boys. They’re not fat. They have nice shapes, they’re just big for their age. They’re also mean and perverted and they travel in a pack of 3 which makes it a triple threat. I’ve been letting my daughter deal with it, but when I heard they are flashing their downloaded porn to the other kids (11, 12 and 13 year olds) on the bus I felt like I had to step in.
in theory… i’d be pissed off enough to start a catfight.
but really i’m just another wimpy girl. meh. if i get into a physical fight and win… i’d be proud of myself. lulz.
I would punch him back. Not religious, so no qualms there.
If he punched me, I’d probably punch him, then choke him out or something. I’m not from the ghetto but the rule of thumb with us black people is that if someone messes with you, you can’t cry about it like a child. Otherwise, you’ll constantly be picked on in some way.
No I wouldn’t I’d probably be too scared to be killed by them to try that.
What you experienced was not bullying. You didn’t have the same group of people harrassing you everyday for no known reason. I was the new kid a girl in class and was bullied everywhere I went by the same 3 guys. i was continually harrassed by them. I was never punched. I was terrorized though. I was afraid to go to school. And there was no one that would stick up for me.
Depends on my mood.
I would punch back without a second blink. No way is someone going to get away with punching me. I’d take that person down!
I’m not really the type of person to get into fights but if someone hit me or hit me repeatedly I would totally defend myself.
I absolutely would punch someone if they hit me. In fact, sometimes I wish people WOULD hit me so I’d be justified in punching them.
I think the person who walks away is the better man. (no offense) Not because he couldn’t fight, but because he won’t lower himself to the other dumb-dumb’s level.
This goes for girls too. Of course, being out-right attacked in an I’m-gonna-totally-kill-you way would probably get me punching SOMETHING.
Of corse jesus would not punch the buly back. Jesus woudl turn th eother cheek. I am not Jesus and Although I would not punch the bully back, I would take legal action and toss his happy butt in jail.
I’m a mental terrorist. Usually I’d rather take a punch and just let someone get in trouble for it rather than punch them back. The few times people have tried to start fights with me (not counting combatives) I just stood there and took it and let them reap it. No one really messes with me anymore, sometimes I’ll piss someone off and they’ll start getting ready to throw down, but then just drop it because they know I won’t hit them back and that they will solely get in trouble for the incident.
omg what’s wrong with you…learn to be the bigger person by not doing anything
Yeah I would, but that’s just coz i click it if anyone even pushes me. I’d probably get my ass kicked too.
Bullying does exist. I have been fortunate enough to not be on the receiving end of bullying, barring that guy here on Xanga who made my life so miserable last year. However! I have been on the receiving end of a controlling person, and that is not pleasant.
It is also not something you just decide to finish. It is not that simple for millions of people.
A violent bully makes someone a victim, and makes it clear to them that they cannot be anything else. A controlling person makes it clear that you are not allowed to take control for yourself. It is not so simple as punching your tormentor. It is not so simple because they are stronger than you, one way or the other.
i can’t :
i’d probalby punch someone back in an IMPULSE. then feel bad afterwards.
I would just stare at them. No one (except siblings) have ever punched me, but I’ve found that the best reaction to violence is none. Have you ever tried staring at someone aiming a snowball at you? They simply can’t bring themselves to hit someone with no defense who isn’t cowering.
Then again, if I wasn’t a girl I might have to change my tactics.
I do not believe that Jesus would want me to punch them back if they are just punching because they don’t like me. We get angry when people do those things, the key is to not act on that anger. The anger is not wrong, but hurting someone else just because they hurt you would be the wrong attitude. Of course, as a human I would want to punch them back, but what I want to do is not always right.
Apparently you were never “victimized” by some dude half a foot taller, 50 lbs heavier, and super badass tough, not just some fat ass. If you would have punched THAT GUY in the face, like your other examples, he would have left your teeth on the floor and bashed your skull. Unless, of course, you’re way, way bigger, stronger, and tougher than I am imagining. If that’s the case, please don’t come to my house and beat the living sh! out of me! When you’re way outgunned and did nothing to deserve it, but get it, its called bullying. I’m all for NOT having a victim mentality, but you’re wrong. There are some circumstance in which you ARE a victim and you DO have to be. You’ve just never experienced it.
Did you really just advocate violence beyond the need for self defense? How irresponsible.
i love how you ALWAYS THROUGH RELIGION INTO POLITICS ON HERE! they never go together. but know i would either pray for them or sue them
romans taught me well 
Bullying isn’t limited to someone punching you or hitting you. IT can range from verbal abuse to coercion and intimidation. Hitting someone in return for other types of bullying isn’t appropriate.
“My point is that if you think you are bullied, you think you are a
victim. If you don’t want to be a victim, you need to stand up for
yourself.” – True.
I’ve been bullied by girls before…but I never really felt the need to hit them back.
I agree with you in that you’ve got to stand up for yourself. Half the problem is when people label themselves as the victim. But in answer to your question, no.
I probably would just as a reaction. I mean, I used to be abused by my Dad growing up in my teen years and he punched me a lot in my face. He’s has given me so many bloody noses that the carpet in the living room is actually stained because of it. My family swept this under the rug because my Dad is this big hero in our tiny town. He keeps blaming me over and over and over again. That it was my actions that led him to do this. But I don’t think I made him punch me, HE made THAT DECISION HIMSELF. Not me. But after a while, I started getting sick of the punches, so I swung back. I never did hit him because when I swung at him, he just punched me harder. Anyways, I have PTSD and just talking about this is bringing back bitter memories so I really should stop haha.
It says that we should turn the other cheek in the Bible. But even though I try to follow the Bible as best as I can, I don’t think I could do that while someone’s punching me. I can do it when someone’s insulting me or being rude. But I don’t think I can do that when someone is PHYSICALLY hurting me.
I believe in non-violent conflict resolution. You can’t fight everyone. Much more permanent damage can be inflicted within your opponent’s mind.
If the aggressor is smart enough, it’s much more effective if you can lead by example. Many jobs ago, an old co-worker was envious of me and attempted to employ an old Machiavellian tactic: friends through a common enemy. Of course he chose me as his enemy, and attempted to band the rest of the office against me. When this person became my staff on a project, I killed ‘em with kindness. I believe my compassion inspired a 180 degree shift in this person’s mentality about who truly is his enemy and why, for I had nothing to gain by being his adversary, therefore I didn’t play that role. Instead, I was cordial and professional and nothing more.
Even in high school, I preached the same non-violence. I generally believed that I could always out think the opponent. It was easy for me to preach that though because I had plenty of friends, some of which were large and enjoyed defending their friends in a violent fashion. However, I’ve witnessed people thrown into trash cans and receive other forms of abuse because they were helpless at the time. In a case of mistaken identity in HS, I had to apologize for something which I did not do, but the other option was a lynching by 8 cowboys. Of course I gave those cowboys an earful of logic post-apology, but I did swallow my pride and apologize. But I would not consider that bullying because it was not repeated abuse, and I was not helpless.
@rrozz - 100% correct. Bullying does exist. Dan just never experienced it.
No. But I don’t think it’s correct to label me a victim for not putting one up the person’s ass. It just never was my style.
I usually get even in ways that won’t point to me, but would definitely be delicious revenge.
Sounds like you’re talking about me…. hehehe, j/k!
You’re lucky you were able to fight back. Sometimes it’s not always possible. I understand where you’re coming from but I think you need to realize that your experience doesn’t speak for everyone.
Anyway, to answer your question – if someone punched me I hope I’d have the strength to destroy them. So yes, I’d hit back.
where are the teachers? where is the rule of law? i feel like there are other ways to resolve this.
Yep. Now I’m stronger than I was in elementary school. That fucker would get his nose broken.
I would like to punch him to point where he doesn’t even the chance punch me back. When I was young, if someone instigate a fight with me, I would never be the first to hit but as I grow older I understand when it is obvious someone will act violently against you and it is inevitable, your job is to eliminate your threat as quickly as possible before they inflict damage on you.
Yes…Jesus would want me too.
@MsKittyCatty - Jesus did not turn the other cheek when He cracked the whip, over turned tables and threw the moneychangers out of the church. He had a spine.
@Tallman - He never hurt anyone though. He never hit. I never said he didnt have a spine. Maybe you should read my actual words, sir.
The best interpretation of the “turn the other cheek” passage I heard was that it actually referred to legal disagreements. In other words, court cases. Jesus didn’t want people suing each other all the time over petty squabbles. It had little or nothing to do with physical conflict. So, I agree with when yous ay it was an attitude he was talking about.
So, to answer your question, yes, I probably would punch the bully back. However, if a fight ensued, I would try to settle it with as little force as possible (although, that would require I get martial arts training).
I would. As cruel as it sounds, bullies have a place in society. They will always be here no matter how old you get. I say to every kid who ever gets picked on by a bully: Stand up for yourself. And if you see someone being wronged by a bully, stand up for that person. Remember when Jesus saw the moneychangers taking advantage of the people in the Temple, he chased them out with a whip.
Jesus said that He brought a sword, not peace (Mat. 10:34). To understand the phrase ‘turn in the other cheek’ requires a background on Jewish culture. The slap, mostly right handed, will hit the left cheek. Turning it requires a backhand slap, a more insultive and shameful gesture.
eye for an eye, they say treat others like tyou would want to be,
BUT bullying is not usually thought out, and if said bully DOES a
thinking before, well that just makes his, or her, offense that much
worse, don’t you think?
http://www.fakewrx.com/bobska/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=37
have a nice day
somebody hit me! frankly as of late I’m LOOKING for a fight so if they throw the first punch I am gonna delight in the brawl that follows.
Jesus was always very clear about the boundaries in His life. He never backed down from those who tried to discredit Him, but He never offered violence in return. When they sought to lay hands on Him, He evaded them until it was the appointed time for Him to lay down His life. He also took up a whip and drove the money lenders out of the Temple. So, those that tried to intimidate Jesus failed. I think that it would be good to find non-violent ways to cause those who would do us violence to fail, but if they insist, well, so be it, throw the punch. Just don’t whine about the consequences if you get caught.
I’ve never been punched before but I’ve had bad things said about me before…. but if someone punched me I would punch him, kick him jump at him. Cause who punches people for no reason? Only those from badlem do…. so yeah……..
But I think the right thing to do would be to just walk away….. It doesnt mean that you’re a coward or anything…. its just showing the other guy that you dont fucking care …. what if he is just looking for a fight…. are you gonna lose to him by doing what he wants?
Sounds like you were quite the little trouble maker, running around punching everyone. ;)
I believe Jesus beat up some money-changers in a temple once… most scholars agree they had it coming.
I’d hit them back.
Hmmmm….Now lemme think about that…Well,I guess it all depends on WHICH Jesus you are referring to…Is it the same one that told G.W.Bush to drop bombs on Iraq???