January 30, 2010
-
Dying For Your Faith
When I was growing up, I went to a conservative Christian church. One of the thoughts that was constantly taught was that a Christian should be willing to die for their faith.
The teaching wasn’t that we should be willing to die in a suicide mission. We were Christian, not Muslim.
The teaching was that if someone were to hold a gun to our head and ask us to deny our faith, we should hold to our faith and let the person blow our brains out. Then we could have eternal reward with God in heaven.
Would you be willing to die for your faith?
Comments (180)
Yes I would!
I believe the reward for faith is eternal life…so, sure.
Wouldn’t it just create a massive conundrum to die for agnosticism?
Muslims don’t have a clause in their faith that says “will do suicide missions for Islam” since suicide is against Islam. Using faith for political agenda is an old school tactic, one that smears a faith’s name. People that make generalizations, like say you, about how only Muslims do suicide bombings only add fuel to the fire.
Probably not. I don’t believe anything that would warrant such extremism.
@Aaliyaan - Hear, hear.
@DrugInducedDuck - I think that would blow the gunman’s brains out.
That’s a good question. I’ve always been afraid of death, so maybe it’s a no. But at the same time, I’m also stubborn, too stubborn to deny my religion, so maybe it’s a yes. It all depends on who the person is, how they are threatening to kill me, and when in my life it is this is happening. If it was now, hell yes! But if not, I can’t say.
It’s pretty easy to say yes while sitting in my warm, safe kitchen. I think that is a test nobody really knows whether they will pass until the moment comes. Happily, most of us in the U.S. will never have to find out.
yes I would. To die in honor is greater than living in hell for all eternity.
I’d much rather live for my faith.
I would be sooo scared….but I would have to say yes. I believe in God and I wouldn’t deny him.
Dying for something isn’t that hard. Living for something is hard. How many people are willing to die for their faith, and yet can’t resist telling small lies? Or for that matter fail to love their neighbor like themselves?
I know I would if I had to.
Excuse you,
suicide nor murder is a part of Islam; if anything, both are grave sins.
Anyone who says no doesn’t actually believe what they claim to believe. If you really think you’ll end up in heaven after the bullet goes through your skull, why not?
In my opinion however, that’s a pretty messed up worldview to be instilling in children.
Also, your casual implication that suicide bombing is part of the Muslim religion is pretty silly.
yess
I don’t have a “faith” in religion so I would most likely never run into this problem. Now if someone threatened to kill me if I did not deny my philosophical beliefs I, honestly, would deny them because to me living is far greater than death.
For me, if someone held a gun and said denouce Christ or I will blow your head off, I think I would say go ahead then pull the trigger, but if they said denounce Christ or I will kill or torture your wife or kids THEN it becomes harder. It would not be that I didn’t have faith so much as I wouldn’t want harm to come to my family. I could say, God will protect them as long as I am faithful, but we also have to be smart with our decisions. I can trust and have faith for myself, but for someone else, THEY would have to tell me they are willing too. I know it’s off the question you asked, but thats how I would react….I think!
If you would die rather than just tell some crazy random asshole that you don’t believe in god, then you obviously don’t put much value in life.
There was a time when I would answer this question, “I would like to think I would.” But, today, I am fairly sure that I would absolutely be willing to give my life before denying Christ. And unlike most “Christians” in America, I sincerely believe that we will find out just how serious we all are sooner than later.
Always stirring things up, aren’t you?
I suppose if I had a specific faith, then yes.
I’m not entirely sure. I suppose it depends on circumstance. I no doubt would try to talk the person out of it. But if they want to blow my brains out, that’s all there is to it.
I would probably pee my pants, but no, I wouldn’t deny my belief in God. Plus I have this irrational fear that that will happen to me and if I deny God then the guy will kill me because I’m a hypocrite.
great question. I also thought a lot about this. wow. Fox’s book of martyrs is awesome Got my kid a graphic novel version I hope so. and for the real thing; not superficialities, or what others THINK about my faith. But there could also be a time it would be more important to live, to continue it.
Yes.
“Every man dies. Not every man truly lives.”
I think I would. I’d like to think that I would. But actually having the gun pointing at my head might change things.
I would like to say yes, but you never know how you will actually behave if the situation called for it. :0)
nice bash to the muslims, jackass.
no, i wouldn’t be willing to die.
Yes!
that’s like the book “she said yes” about the girl who was shot in the head at a school shooting because the shooter asked if she believed in God and she said yes.
I don’t know what I would do, I wish I could say I’d definitely not deny God, however it’s really difficult – no one WANTS to die.
but then I feel like even if I didn’t say anything and I was spared I would live the rest of my life in guilt.
no one should have to make this choice!
…because we all know it happens ever so often that people are held up by punks with guns who demand Christians to deny their faith.
maybe I’d be prepared to die for my ideals
The very fact that Theologian’s cafe is used to ask this question
derives from the fact Dan does know about the seriousness of some
beliefs. Beliefs are also balanced by family concerns. Would Dan die inorder to save his wife or children?
People love to put down cowards but there seems to be a lot of cowards around too scared to stand up to bullies.Bullies are not worth the effort in some cases and in a way Dan is using this blog as a bully pulpit. I refuse to answer the question because my beliefs are personal and evolving. One answer today could be used against me. A lot of heroes didn’t know they had it in them and a lot of cowards thought themselves brave until the time for testing.
I used to always answer yes to this question…but now that I have a child growing inside of me…it’s harder to answer yes to that question as I want to be there to care for her.
dying for alcohol seems appropriate.
i would never deny what i believe in.
I would die for my faith. But dying for your faith isn’t the hard part. Plenty of false Christians I know would probably die for their ‘faith’ too. Its a matter about LIVING for your faith. LIVE for God. If you can’t do that, why die for Him?
@maxxi2031 - just because you tell the gunman ‘yes i believe in God’ doesn’t guarantee you a spot in heaven. if your not living for God now, why would he make a spot for you in heaven because ‘you were scared the gunman would shoot you anyways?’
Would it matter? A gunman would probably blow my brains out without asking about my beliefs.
Hells noooo -.-
Yep.
Nope…
I would. My church didnt teach us explicitly like, “if someone holds a gun to your head…” but it should come as second nature if you really are into the faith.
Yes, I would.
My faith isn’t strong enough for that. I’d be too scared to be a martyr.
dying would (hopefully) mean going to heaven, which i’m really excited for, so yes.
Hmm. Why not? It would be a good way to go out, no?
Die for my faith? Sure, if you’re gonna die might as well have J.C. on your side.
I died for my faith once. It was a pretty stupid idea actually.
I certainly hope so.
@Aaliyaan - @chaospet - @syedanoor - This site is much like cotton-candy, also known as candyfloss: it’s lightweight and amusing, of limited value for satisfying hunger, bad for the health if eaten in excess, and more suitable for carnival or fairground entertainment than serious debate. However, as Dan has made the usual bullshit error of equating murder and terrorism with Islam, this shouldn’t be allowed to pass, considering the times we’re in. Islam no more supports murder, terrorism, rape, theft, slander greed etc than does Christianity. In fact, its teachings are so much a continuation of the chronologically older Christianity and Judaism that it might as well be considered a continuation of them.
I pledge allegiance 2 the Lamb, w/ all my strength, with all I am.
@darkoozeripple - Thank you. I think it’s about time that people stop putting up with this vile and disgusting hate that is disguised as a simple sentence or two.
YES I WOULD! I’ve thought of this so many times, and I have no doubt that I would.
I have had a gun pointed in my face and I wimpered like a baby and squeeled like a little pig. So I have proven to myself that I am not a martyr. But I did think of God during what I thought were my last moments on earth.
It is only by standing up for your faith, against any evil, that we can truly have heaven on Earth. That’s what I believe
Being Muslim does not = killing yourself/suicide mission. Suicide is against Islam. Jeez Dan.
@DrugInducedDuck - lol
@CallMeQuell - How do you feel about Patrick Henry, i.e. “Give me Liberty or give me death?” Too extreme?
I think that I would not deny my faith. However, I think we need to ask deeper questions, more likely scenarios, since it is not likely that someone will put a gun to your head and ask you to deny your faith.
Example #1: (For Christians) Jesus said that even looking at a woman “to lust after her” is to commit adultery “in your heart.” Now Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments. Would it be a denial of your faith if you watch a movie that you know has nudity, or watch porn?
Example #2: If you tell a lie, other than for something noble such as hiding Jews from Nazis in WWII, are you denying your faith, since God is about truth?
Example #3: The Bible tells us in the book of Revelation that a “beast” (which represents a kingdom or government) will cause everyone to worship another beast and its image, and would not let people buy or sell except they have the mark of the beast. This is no easy thing to avoid, because Jesus said the last days would be deceptions so powerful that if it were possible even the elect would be deceived. Will you accept the mark of the beast so you can buy food for your family? Will you obey the laws requiring people to worship the beast and its image, whatever that might mean?
By the way, the last example is why it is so important to remember what religious liberty means. In the late 1800′s a law was proposed in the US Congress to make Sunday a day of rest so people could go to church. It was defeated, but not long ago Pat Robertson was quoted as saying that a law requiring Sunday observance would be a good thing, but I say that I think that there is a good reason why our constitution declares that congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or against the free exercise of religion. Christians need to be wide awake as we head into the times ahead.
A scenario that hits even closer to home and current lives in America: are you willing to give up cable TV to send money to support missionaries helping to spread your faith? are you willing to give up going out to eat or having dessert to be able to give money to a food bank?
Are you denying your faith if you do not live as Christ told us, to “deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily?”
Sorry, but no.
That guy has a wheel on the cross he’s carrying. That doesn’t look too difficult.
What faith?
“DENY YOUR DEISM!!!”
“erm, okay…I can be an atheist or a hindu or a muslim or whatever if you want…I’m flexible”
“goddamnit, now I can’t justify killing you!”
do YOU still hold to that? do you believe that?
@chaospet - Did you not see that it was a punchline?
>.> Will he still kill me if I don’t believe in anything? But if I did nope…I enjoy life.
The beautiful thing is that the merciful God of my understanding doesn’t expect that. He expects me to be human and make mistakes and learn from them.
Yes.
we’re talking about denying your faith in Christ before humans. i’m positive that’s not right in any circumstances. like mtngirlsouth used to be, i would like to think i would. like UnworthyofHisgrace noted, a simple shot to the head is easier to handle than torture. yet during these times when we aren’t undergoing perseverance is a good time to meditate on how short this life is compared to eternity.
i would, yes.
Absolutely. I would die, but not kill.
Yes, I have always thought so, even when I was a kid. I know people say you never know until you’re in that position, and I’m sure that’s true, but I while I’d probably cry I’d rather die than deny Jesus in such a fundamental way. Living in the U.S., I’ll probably never, ever get to find out for sure, thank God. I struggle with doubt as much as the next girl and I can’t truly imagine what it feels like to have a gun pointed at your head, but I really think I’d take the bullet.
By the way, the Islam comment was inappropriate, but I’m sure you’re simply being Danly (since when were these blogs of your appropriate?) and stirring the pot.
my faith is really nobody’s business. as far as dying for it , bullshit ! i don’t see what good that would do. strapping a bomb to my body and blowing people up in the name of faith or religion is absolutely insane !
thats actually one up on us the ragheads have,,, they believe its ok to lie to an enemy,,, i agree,,, i believe if someone had a gun to my head,,, he/she would be an enemy…
its ok to kill time to allow you to reach your own gun….
giving up without a fight,,, hahahahaha,,, is stupid.
willing to die,, is stupid,,, if you dont have a family,, then thats up to you,,, and doesnt really matter,,, if you have a family,, that counts on you,,,
it is not only stupid,,, it is cowardly…. and does immeasurable harm to your family,,,
those whe would not kill to defend theirself or their family,,, are also stupid,, and cowardly.
As the late J.D. Salinger said: “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.”
In this instance, a simple lie could save your life, believing in an afterlife is no guarantee that you’ll see one so it strikes me that the most sensible thing to do is preserve your arse. If you are devout enough though that you feel certain there’s an afterlife you’d still be making the wrong choice, your death today stands mostly as a statistic but if you survive the encounter you can continue your works and make a proper impact upon the world.
I hope I would.
@MySecretLoveAffair - coool i remember hearing the story about a man walked int a church with a gun in his hand and said any one not willing to die leave now some of them did but most stood firm then he put down his gun smiled and said great now i can worship with my true family
Yes.
If anyone ever put me in such a sadistic situation and I had no other choice, I would do it.
The guy in your picture is cheating! There’s a wheel on that cross
@syedanoor - Oh snap, Theo better answer to this one.
“The teaching wasn’t that we should be willing to die in a suicide mission. We were Christian, not Muslim.”
Did you REALLY just say that?Incredibly insulting implications in that statement.
if only people who were faithful were faithful enough. it’d be so easy for some psycho to enter a church with a gun and shoot every single person down with that question. unfortunately, people run for their lives or fight back first.
@viewfromnihil - I’ll need you to be a little more specific than that, thanks.
@darkoozeripple - ”Islam no more supports murder, terrorism, rape, theft, slander greed etc than does Christianity.”
Yep.
Absolutely. No questions asked.
*ahem* Crusades.
If I had any, I would deny it while praying profusely inside of my head for whoever I believe in to forgive me. Then afterwards, if I lived, I would spend quite a while looking for forgiveness. I just like living. It’s usually between what you consider more important: the life you were granted or the faith you so cling to.
I’ve only had a gun pointed at my head once in my life. The question never came up. I’m still here. But I must say I did a lot of praying.
Yes. I believe in a not violent world and it would start with me. I would die for my faith and hope for a brighter future, (Rev. 21:3,4)
I’d say HELL NO.
And all of you people who said yes, will say NO when it really comes down to it.
It’s better to be honest with yourselves. Don’t delve into your delusions of grandeur, because when you’re torn down, you’re as vicious as any other creature on this planet. So don’t bother saying ‘Yes’.
Oh and, the whole part about ‘The teaching wasn’t that we should be willing to die in a suicide mission. We were Christian, not Muslim.’
I don’t remember the Q’oran having any clause about suicide bombing or whatever. That was just blatant racism you just said right now. The Japanese also employed the suicide bomber tactic. It’s called Kamikaze. It has nothing to do with your religion. I hope the next time you actually put up a post, to check your frikkin SOURCES and clear the PREJUDICE out of your head.
Thank you.
-Samir Karam
Reminds me of the joke where the girl asks the boy “Do you love me?” He replies “Yes, I love you.”
“Would you die for me?” “No, mine is an undying love.”
My great grand-father was in prison for his faith, and was beaten every day for weeks because he refused to renounce Christ and embrace Islam. I would hope that I would be that brave. Btw, he and his son escaped, and eventually came to America. That’s why I have the quote on my site from the hymn “Faith of our fathers, living still…….in spite of dungeon, fire and sword.”
Winners of the die-for-faith contest are automatically eligible for the Darwin Awards.
@GunStarHero1988 - You’re still around? I thought you quit this Xanga thing. =P
I would die for my faith. Without Someone dying for me, I would have no faith.
Yes! Love is surrender. When you love something or someone is willing to give everything for the beloved. For example, a soldier who loves his country, a man – as happened in communist countries – that does not mind dying for the sake of freedom, a person who loves his fellow men and in a fire or a terremoro, trying to save the other risks his own life.
The same applies to a mother at the risk of losing his own life, gives birth to new being carried in the womb.
If all the above are samples of how to risk our life for another or others, the more so must be willing to give it to defend our faith, which involves confessing our love for God.Sugiere una traducción mejor
Would you like to trade that $20,000 in cash for what’s behind curtain number 2?
Does it have to be faith in god?
I would die for what I believe in, but it wouldn’t be religion.
My beliefs are better served by my living for them.
I would tell him this. “Buddy, you have no power over whether I live or die. If God wants me to come home today, then I could be sitting at home in front of my TV and I will die. If God doesn’t want me home quite yet, then nothing you can do to me will kill me.”
As far as Muslims being peaceful LOL …. You don’t see Mormons blowing people up on a daily basis. I have never seen Buddhists bombing other Buddhists because they have a difference in little beliefs. When is the last time you saw a Jehovah’s witness blow up a marketplace with women and children all around? I guess if you want to hide your head in a hole and deny these things are happening, or deny that they are abusive to women and children, go ahead. I would also encourage you to take a fun vacation to Iran and see how peaceful they really are. I honestly wish every stupid liberal in America would vacation in the peaceful middle east in some good Islamic countries so they can see who they are defending on a regular basis. Christians are bad, Muslims are peaceful and misunderstood. Nuns who dedicate themselves to orphanages are just as bad or worse then the Muslims who seem to like to blow things up on a regular basis. it must be like this because Liberals HATE Christians because they are intolerant and don’t believe the same as the atheist/agnostic.
when your time comes it comes, whether by old age, disease, or some weapon in the hands of someone bent on your end. Contemplation of a question the regards whether one would sacrifice their existence for some abstraction like “faith” is a wasting of life.
Would I “give my life for my ‘faith’”? Not as a free choice, no; but neither will I recant who I am.
They used to tell me that, too. I think it’s sick. It’s all well and good for someone to say “yes, I would take the bullet,” but what if someone did that to your kid or your spouse? What if you were a single parent and someone was holding that gun to your head? A dead person is useless. A dead person can’t raise a child, can’t comfort a hurting family member, can’t give aid to the needy. Do you really think that your God would prefer that you die? I hardly think so.
What exactly the point of becoming a martyr? You are remembered as someone who would die rather than denounce God even once, and your memory encourages other people to just let themselves die. It doesn’t actually do anyone any good. It might make the religion stronger, but it doesn’t help other people.
yes, if it is God’s will
Wouldn’t that technically be suicide, because you know they will kill you and you take it anyway, without trying to prevent it?
It’s like suicide by cop. It kind of seems that way.
@Brian_Jeremiah - Yeah, I agree. I haven’t seen Wiccans, Agnostics/Atheists, Pantheists, blow up abortion clinics, either.
for anyone who wouldn’t deny their belief: what if this is the only life you have? you would let someone get away with murder while you die for no good reason? you would willingly allow someone to take your only life away from you (what I believe at least) when you could have lied and had a chance to live. and if it wasn’t your only life, I’m sure your god wouldn’t really mind if you lied to a homicidal maniac in order to save your life. if your child was about to have their brains blown out as well would you want them to tell the truth and die just because they MIGHT go to heaven afterward?
so incredibly disgusting.
I’m an atheist but I would say whatever it took for them to not kill me, whether I was a Christian or whatever. because I actually value my life.
I would hope that I would never denounce my love for Jesus I can only pray that my faith is strong enough to withstand that type of attack
@SisterMom1954 - sorry, but faith would not stop a bullet from penetrating your skull.
@kayla_fersherr - Umm, me saying yes doesn’t get me a spot, I know that. I never said it did. My faith in God, my salvation, the fact that I asked God into my heart a long time ago does get me a spot in heaven. I am a child of God, nothing changes that. As I said, it’s just an irrational fear.
@OngishLyOngLee - are you serious? UNFORTUNATELY people try to protect themselves by running or fighting? I guess you’d prefer that if a psycho came into a church with a gun that they should all line up and wait their turn to be shot? wtf
It would be a bit pointless for a Taoist.
@aireeuh - No it wouldn’t stop a bullet but if they are crazy enough to hold a gun to your head who says they won’t pull the trigger anyway no matter what you say/ evil is evil, crazy is crazy and ya can’t second guess it…but I know living by faith is the key to my happiness and my success in everything I do.
@SisterMom1954 - I would rather take the less risky option (lying). they might shoot you either way but if he’s telling you that he will definitely kill you if you don’t lie, you might as well be pulling the trigger for him by refusing.
@aireeuh - If someone believes in reincarnation that is even more of a reason for them to stand up for their beliefs. If we all become slaves to the antagonist just to protect our body in this life, then we are not advancing the evolution of humanity at all.
If you say, “yes, I believe in the the world soul/jesus/God/Allah/whoever,” then you are not letting an evil doer prevail over the ultimate good. When you come back in the next life the world will be that much closer to the ultimate end, whatever that may be.
I understand you’re an atheist, and I respect that ferverently as I have been also. Just explaining the thought process behind it. =)
@Brian_Jeremiah - There are people both in Islam and Christianity who misconstrue the holy books to benefit their cause. (i.e bombings at abortion clinics and suicide bombers) What these people are saying, is that the actual core religion is not bad. People in the middle east have been resorting to violence for eons, a lot of them happen to be Muslims. That’s just how the cookie crumbles.
There are no absolutes. Therefore, neither Islam nor Christianity is bad, but there are people everywhere that do bad things despite what their religion tells them.
@Maniacraving - I just wish people would be a little more skeptical and take into consideration that they might be wrong and this might be the only life they have. I find it really shameful that they would waste it for something that may or may not be true, but, in my opinion, probably isn’t true.
and I don’t think that lying to a psycho with a gun means you’re making yourself a “slave to the antagonist.” especially if, like me, you would come back and blow their brains out without first asking what religion they were.
Yes, I would. God is #1 in my life.
@aireeuh - This is where we all have to respect others beliefs. Just as you wouldn’t want some god fearing missionary to tell you to consider that you might be wrong about being an atheist. Believers shouldn’t be told to consider that they might be wrong.
If someone tells me, “this is the only life i have.” I’m gonna be like then what the heck is everyone going to be doing for the rest of eternity if not living?
Lol at the wheel on the crucifix. Lazy Americans.
@Maniacraving - true, I guess I have to agree about that. it’s just hard for me to understand how people would so carelessly throw away the one life they know they’re going to have just in case there’s something else. then again I’m sure it’s hard for Christians to understand how people couldn’t believe what they believe.
and what I’m going to be doing for the rest of eternity when I die… is being dead. XD I really don’t see what’s so scary about it.
god, i hate how those protesters drag around those crosses like they’re doing something useful, but the cross has wheels on it. uh, i don’t think they gave jesus any wheels for ease of dragging his cross. crazies.
Well Jesus died for me… would be kinda cheap if I refused to die for Him.
dfghskdjfgh.
No comment. I stopped reading at “Muslim.”
I don’t agree with your statement about Muslims and suicide bombing,
but I would never abandon my faith of Islam even if my life depended on it.
@Brian_Jeremiah - As a Middle Easterner of Iranian descent and a Muslim, I disagree with what you say greatly. The people who think that suicide is encouraged are wrong, and suicide and murder are both abominable atrocities in Islam. I would appreciate if you didn’t spew hate like that again.
And Iran is actually quite a nice place with very friendly people. I’ve visited three times.
Same with Saudi Arabia; I’ve only been there twice, though.
@JosephParsons - I prefer Ghandi’s route.
People at their last moment, strive to live. Not to die for their beliefs. Read the book Night. Its about a young Jew boy who was taken away and put into a camp. His whole family was killed except his father. His father was weak though, so he had to eat some of his sons food. The son eventually ended up wishing for his father to die, so he could live. Its not that he was a bad person, just the will to live is stronger than most human emotions.
No. I like life too much to die. I’d rather change my faith to fit around something that allowed me to enjoy my life.
I’d do it, but I think people would call me crazy.
@CallMeQuell - I have great respect for Gandhi. Yet Gandhi would have been perfectly willing to die for what he believed. He put himself at personal risk many times. One that comes to mind is when he laid down in front of charging British soldiers on horseback. Is Gandhi extreme because he was willing to be trampled to death for his beliefs? Not trying to put you on the spot… just wondering if you really believe that nothing is worth dying for.
I would if I had to.
I hope I never have to make the choice,
i find the amount of people who say ‘yes,’ believing that it is an ‘honor’ and that otherwise is to ‘deny God’ is ….simply astonishing.
wow, just…wow.depressing.
that being said, the thing you pulled with Muslim is not a wise/informed choice, to say the least.
shame on you.i do rather enjoy reading your posts.
@nitrus2112 -
Well, then I guess all the news of constant bombings is just a coincidence then right? Certainly it has nothing to do with being Muslim right? I think one would have to have their head up their butts in order to not see the obvious fact that the terror perpetrated against the world is 99.9% Muslim originated. I guess if you want to deny that and say I “hate” because I point out the obvious truth .. then I guess I hate. I would probably be more apt to point in the direction of Muslim countries when talking about hate though … since they are the ones who want to obliterate the Jews and the evil capitalist America. But then again, I guess me even mentioning that is hateful as well right?
@Brian_Jeremiah - Extremist Muslims are crazy, but they are not the only ones performing acts of terrorism. There is still Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, the Irish Republican Army, the Tamil Tigers, the Shining Path, and many other non-Muslim terrorist groups. Just because a few Muslims happen to be more prominent and successful in their misguided and and disgusting terrorist acts does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists, nor does it mean that Muslims as a people harbor hate, rancor, and animosity towards Jews or any other sort of nonbeliever. I am an American, and I am a Muslim. In our great nation, I have a right to practice Islam and be a patriot at the same time. I have no plans to carry out terrorist acts, but I do have plans to watch the Superbowl. Not all Muslims are terrorists, not all terrorists are Muslim. You need to give more credit to the potential for good in people. But if you feel more comfortable thinking that Muslims are bad at heart, then I cannot change that. I’m not even that sure that you are acquainted with a single Muslim, or you might be a little more accepting. You should try to find a Muslim and have a real sit-down discussion about your differences in beliefs. Then you might understand that Islam is a religion of mercy, not of terrorism.
When I first put on my country’s uniform and took the Oath, I considered that inherent in the bargain.
“I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions and dedicated to the principles that made my country free. I will trust in my God and the United States of America.”
As the pillar of Christian civilization in the world, America’s soldiers- regardless of personal faith- fight for the Christian cause. Part of that cause is the God-given right to worship according to one’s conscience. To destroy innocent lives in self-immolation (and to expect a divine reward in the process!) is an abomination to any decent and godly human being. But to freely put your life on the line to protect decency and innocence- whether in or out of uniform- is not only Christian, but a man’s duty in life.
@darkoozeripple - I suppose it could be all the suicide bombings that have been done by terrorists claiming to be Muslim that might have put that idea into our heads. Silly us. Islam is not a continuation of Christianity and Judaism, although I certainly understand why some would believe that to be true. It is the contention of some Muslims that Christians worship three Gods (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and are therefore heretics and infidels deserving of death unless they deny Christ and convert to Islam, even though Christians would say that Christians also worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. What a mess………………
@STEVENPILL - And there are those of us who are thankful every day of our lives for men (and women) like you.
@looneyanaid - Why is it depressing to know that people believe that there is something bigger and better than this life? I think it would be depressing to think that this life is all there is because, let’s face it, there is an awful lot of pain and suffering out there, not to mention the nastiness we inflict on ourselves and each other. To think that there is nothing more than what this world has to offer would make me want to curl up and die.
Dear JW: Thanks for the kind words. I should point out that that last paragraph of the Code of Conduct (which I quoted) was later changed after the Women’s Army Corps (WAC) was abolished. “Fighting man” has been changed to “soldier”. I used the version that I learned. “Fighting man” still has a better ring to it, political correctness notwithstanding!
@chaospet - What he said.
Also, I don’t believe in any type of God but I do have morals. I would rather die than break my moral code.
I’m pretty sure that’s still commonly taught. I don’t know if many people would be willing to do that, though.
I don’t know if I would or not. I’ve never been put in that position before, and I hope that I never will be.
I feel for the service men and women who have to worry about being put in just such a situation. And for those who already have, and for those who will in the future. I seem to remember at least one video made by Muslim extremists in the middle east after capturing a soldier, where the soldier was made to talk to the camera and he mentioned how he had converted to Islam. I don’t know if he was serious or not, I doubt it actually, but either they made him say it just for the people who would watch the tape, or they made him so afraid that not doing so would mean his death and that he would never see his family again so he did what they wanted. I don’t know which, but it was very sad and frightening to watch clips of that video on the news. It was a good while ago, though. :/
@saintvi - agreed.
@MyJudas - no. the killer is the one who does not value life. we can value righteousness (i.e. honesty) more than our own life though. see Philippians 1:21-24.
@nitrus2112 - I “sat” down with a muslim, and had a discussion about our difference in beliefs. Then on Sept 11, he made motions with his hands and simulated the planes crashing into the WTC, laughed then called me an Infidel, and told me that Allah says that he is righteous for every one of us Western “infidels” he kills or has killed. So, with that being said, I now wear a black T-Shirt with the word “Infidel” written on it in Arabic and wear it out every once in awhile. I get some of the meanest stares at times. But oh well.
@Aaliyaan - Good call my friend.
I would love to say I would die for my faith. However since I am an inveterate coward there is a good chance I would renage on the deal. Thank God for Grace is what I say. Also I was talking with a freind about this the other day and we both agreed that sometimes doing the ‘bold, big thing’ is sometimes not the hardest thing. What can take real effort is to live every day day in a same same life (and my life is good and easy, I have no doubt about that), and still love Jesus and profess Him and enjoy sharing His story with people you meet. That I fine hard.
@nitrus2112 -
I am sure you are a good hearted person with good intentions. However, it seems that many other Muslims interpret the quuran quite literally and it does say explicitly that the Jews in particular and infidels in general (who will not convert) need to be destroyed. I’m sorry if pointing that out makes me hateful, but facts are facts. Like I said before, you don’t see Nuns blowing up marketplaces, you see Muslims doing it. yes, there are pirates in Africa and freedom fighters in occupied Ireland etc… But you don’t see them going into countless other countries and blowing up their embassies or blowing up their own people in public places in order to make some sort of point.
I think of it like this. The quuran teaches destruction of infidels who won’t convert and the Jews. Those who do not follow these rules are the wrong ones. if you subscribe to a religion, you have to follow it. If I am Buddhist and I kill animals and eat them then I am going against the tenants of Buddhism and I am not a real Buddhist. if I am Christian and I am gay or sleeping with my girlfriend or swearing/smoking etc.. then odds are I am not really a Christian because I do not follow what my Holy book of that religion says. If you say you are of a religion then have the balls to follow it, not just in words only. Liek for instance, Muslims are allowed to marry girls 6+ years old. Muhammad did so with Aisha and then he had sex with her at 9. In Iran it is legal to marry at 9 now. Women are treated like property in real Islamic countries. These are all things promoted in the quuran. I would consider (or reconsider) where you place your beliefs and learn what the religion truly is about.
@jwfarns - I’m friends with many, many atheists (I am one, myself) and none of us think the idea of this life being all we have is scary or depressing in the least. that doesn’t mean we’re not afraid of dying, because face it, nobody in their right mind wants to die. but I don’t think there’s nothing to fear after we die. nothingness is nothingness. if there isn’t a heaven and you die, you won’t know it. you’ll be dead. :p
and though I’ve never believed in any god before, I imagine the world would be even more depressing when you believe there’s a god with limitless power allowing terrible things to happen to people for no reason that you can understand.
@JosephParsons - Well, when I made that comment it was within the context of my current environment and modern culture, where I truly do believe there is no reason to have such extreme belief. However, if you asked me if I would be willing to die if, in exchange, the world would receive peace, justice, and education, then yes—I believe I would. However, that’s not realistic, it’s just a hypothetical situation. Maybe if I lived in more desperate times—like Ghandi’s—I would feel differently.
Furthermore, one of the things I believe in most strongly is life itself—I think it’s beautiful. I think the act of living itself is our purpose in life and holds the most meaning we have. So, while I believe strongly in making life better and more pure, I would definitely prefer, in all instances I could, to preserve life, mine and others’. Does that make sense?
@aireeuh - The question of pain and suffering is one that troubles many people, but it is not one that troubles me a lot. There are many reasons for suffering, many brought on ourselves or by other people making bad or selfish choices. A God that allows a person to have free will cannot turn around and keep people from rebelling and doing hurtful things. As for natural disasters like what is happening in Haiti, there are many theories about why things like that happen. Again, it is not something that causes me to question God, but it does make me think that we could be so much better as humans. It is through trials and tribulations that we grow as people. Those who have had everything handed to them and have never had trouble are often spoiled and have a sense of entitlement that makes them miserable and miserable to be around. Those whose lives have had harshness and danger are often more appreciative of the things they have and the gift of life itself. This life is temporary, so to wring the most out of it we need challenges; we need to set the standards higher so we become stronger and better. When life is challenging, it is more dangerous, but it is also more rewarding, whether you believe in God or not. That’s what I think, anyway.
@CallMeQuell - Yes it does. I agree that life is precious… I would go so far as to say ‘sacred.’ I do however believe in sacrifice. I think about firemen entering burning buildings to save the helpless, or policemen defending the innocent, both at great risk to their own lives. I think about my two grandfathers, both of whom were in the European theater helping to stop the horrors of Nazi Germany. As much as I would argue that life is precious, I would also argue that sacrifice lends honor to it.
You are also correct that we do not live in desperate times, and I suppose we’ve gotten a bit soft as a people because of it. I wonder if we have it in us to stop the next Hitler or fight the next Cold War?
@Brian_Jeremiah - In the Qur’an, it commands Muslims to say to the people who are not Muslims “To you be your way and to me mine.” Meaning that the people who are not Muslim have no requirement to be Muslim. There is no compulsion in religion. A forced conversion is not a true conversion. And I do not know of a single quote that expressly commands Muslims to destroy any Jews or other nonbelievers. As for Iran’s age of consent, you must be married to engage in intercourse legally, and marriage is legal at 13. That’s the same age of consent as Spain and South Korea. And if you ask a Saudi woman, she will tell you that she’s quite satisfied with her standing in society. She does not need to feel self conscious and have the media tell her that she needs to be thin or have larger breasts. She gets to keep every cent of what money she earns in the workplace, while her husband is required to support his family and wife, legally. She does not need to feel uncomfotable with the gawking stares of male workmates if she’s perticularly good looking. There’s even a nice American lady on youtube who isn’t Muslim but still wears hijab. You can see her here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0SsYD2yRsk The insensitive and boorish so-called “Muslim” you spoke with seems to not be right about the head. If he’s killed anyone, that is means for legal action. It is immoral and illegal to do so. Sharia law imposes a state-executed death penalty or blood money for any murder. Saving one life is like saving all of humanity, and taking a life is like destorying all mankind.
Feel free to peruse this article: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Islam/2001/09/Save-A-Life-Save-All-Humanity-Take-A-Life-Kill-All-Humanity.aspx
By this standard, taking a life when you are not in immediate danger is completely against the religion, even if the intended victim is an “infidel”. The mother of a family friend was on one of the planes, and she was an Iranian Muslim. These terrorists are absolutely mad, and if there is any reason why Islam is more prone to create insanity than Roman Catholocism, I’d like to know why. I think we all would.
“We were Christian, not Muslim.”
That was really uncalled for. And, by the way, yes.
@nitrus2112 - I love your comment. Jazak Allah kheir.
yes i would…
@aireeuh - don’t be silly. you obviously did not comprehend the comment i made.
@OngishLyOngLee - oh, silly me. if I obviously didn’t comprehend your comment, please explain to me what you did mean. because they way you worded it, I can’t possibly think of another meaning other than “it’s unfortunate that people aren’t more faithful, because then they wouldn’t run from or fight someone who could otherwise kill them effortlessly by taking advantage of their faith.” if you don’t want people to take it the wrong way, don’t word it the wrong way.
You will only know your answer when you are in that situation.
I would try to get out of it, reason, plead, but in the end I am not going out and out lie and deny my basic beliefs.
Absolutely. I would happily die for my faith in that way. Although I have to admit I would have serious reservations if the gun were pointed at my children and not at me. Sacrificing myself, easy, sacrificing my kids, too much to bear thinking about.
@looneyanaid - depressing? A true Christian would long for the time when they are found worthy to live in God’s eternal glory. Being given the opportunity (not sought out notice, there is a difference) to die a martyr for your Lord is a beautiful thing. Who would NOT desire it?
Not in the type of instance you draw out here. I’d simply lie (I’m sure the God of Deism will smite me for even thinking this). However, if someone were to try and force me to do something against my higher morals (such as kill someone innocent) I would not.
NO! I am not suicidal. I am a Christian. Christ would have us live this life, not to die for any reason what so ever. …Love, Sandy
Its hard to deny your faith when you’re faithless…
This is why the entire concept of faith seems so rediculous to me. Faith says, “Here’s a statement. Believe it. Believe it whether or not the evidence points to it. In fact, if the evidence is against it, believe it that much more strongly, and you’ll be that much more ‘blessed’ for it in the end. Now teach that belief to your children, and allow it to become stronger with each generation…” Now we have a slew of comments from people who are actually willing to be killed, rather than tell a madman what he wants to hear, because of FAITH?? Its insanity!
In this case, specifically a theocratic religion/faith, even though pretty much anything can be considered religion, any faith/religion should have something that would require one to make the ultimate sacrifice!!!
As for the folks comments above who are atheist or agnostic, of course, will easily say nay to dying for their beliefs, because they believe that this life is all there is and that theres no hope for the future. But when the chips are down and they end up in a situation like a gun pointed to their head, or maybe in a situation of despair, horror, terror and suffering like the Haitians went through a couple of weeks ago and are still going through, then you may end up hearing them say “OH GOD! WHY!” Questions start arising in their minds. Questions of religous/devine nature, that can really only be reasonably answered by the Bible!
@creativelyeuphoric -very true!
@nitrus2112 - wow deep!
@OngishLyOngLee - true
@jwfarns - that’s right complete despair! That does sound horrible!
@suuperstar - good answer!
@aireeuh - Although I’m a Theist, you do make a couple of good points that I agree with.
@aireeuh - thank you. just…thank you. you took the words right out of my mouth for that question, and for the response to many other comments. i need to find more people who are like you
@bluepillorredpill - “because they believe that this life is all there is and that theres no hope for the future.” theism teaches us that the belief in death with an afterlife is a noble thing, and therefore lack of belief/disbelief in an afterlife is a horrid thing that leaves you with no hope.
here’s how i see death: death is the end of consciousness. and this is precisely the reason most we are terrified of it. we build up their whole lives around their consciousness – family, friends, lovers, acquaintances, their ideas, beliefs, hopes, ambitions, work – and to die is to end our consciousness of everything that makes us who we are. the belief of an afterlife provides us with the comfort that our consciousness lives on, that we are still able to hold onto, and live through, the things that we once held dear, that we have built up for ourselves and for others. for me, an atheist, i would use every grain of my consciousness to build up a wonderful life for myself, rich in love, joy, culture, ideas, fulfillment, etc. and at the end of my days, think “i’ve had a wonderfully fulfilling life. i have to served my existence on this earth the best that i could and i will now make room for another to do the same,” and know that i, my essence, will still live on in this world, through my family, my friends, my art, my writing, and those in the world who share my hopes for a better future in the world.
so as a nonbeliever, to die is not the end of my life, only the end of my consciousness. and i would pick living on this earth over any heaven or nirvana any day, because i love this world, with all its pain and suffering. i still think it a beautiful place with endless potential to be better.
@bluepillorredpill - oh, and as for the other part of your comment:
first, i did not react like that to the Haiti earthquake, or any other natural disaster. and i don’t know any unbeliever who did. because if you’re asking “oh god! why!” are the Haitians suffering, it’s because the consequences of earthquakes – buildings don’t stay upright when the ground beneath them separates; people don’t live when they fall deep trenches of the earth. if you’re asking “oh god! why!” did the earthquake happen to the the Haitians specifically, then I would ask, well…why did any natural disaster happen to any group of people? it’s nature. geology. tectonic plate shifting. nature doesn’t discriminate, it could share less about people. we shouldn’t be so vain to think that life, the earth, the universe revolves around us. because it really doesn’t.
and if a gun was pointed to my head for no reason that i know of, then i would think “how do i save myself. how do i save myself.” and if i do, I’ll think, “that person needs to be stopped. I will do everything in power to see to it, so that no one else would have to go through what i did.” as an nonbeliever, i would never think, “oh god, why??” and then proceed to pray for my life instead of trying to think of a way to save myself. and if i can’t? then at least I know I tried, and that in itself is enough to give value to the life i lived.
@looneyanai@looneyanaid - hmmm? I feel what you’re saying
Yes.
yes
I honestly don’t know what to say. I want to live, not die.