April 9, 2010
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Genderless Restrooms for Elementary Schools
A Human Rights Commissions in Maine is under fire for a proposal to ban gender divisions in “sports teams, school organizations, bathrooms and locker rooms.”
The thinking is that grouping people by “their biological gender amounts to discrimination.” Under the proposal, children as young as elementary age will have restrooms and locker rooms that allow for both boys and girls.
The proposal is a result of a 12-year-old transgender boy who was banned from using the girls’ bathroom. The commission felt that it was discrimination for the boy to be denied from the girls’ bathroom.
Some people are concerned about the possibility for abuse if an adult male was allowed in a restroom with an underaged girl. Others just think that the kids may be embarrassed or confused with mixed bathrooms and lockers. Here is the link: Link
Do you think it is discrimination to ban a transgender boy from a girls’ bathroom?
Comments (100)
Of course it is, but…genderless restrooms?
Well, that should make school less awkward.
Um… Erm. I am not sure… Maybe if they were all stalls. I don’t think same locker rooms is such a good idea.
It’s all very confusing.
Plus… boys bathrooms are kinda gross.
It’s a confusing topic.
Ah, what happened to the days where you could go wherever, before public sewage systems etc.?
It is discrimination & wrong but I think genderless bathrooms would be dangerous. They should make the closeminded people let her use the bathroom. I worked with a transgendered woman in the post office & she got to use the bathroom with us girls just fine.
I truely think there should be three options then, kinda like the “family” restrooms that are available in some stores.
HUMM No way I would allow my daughters to attend a school whcih allowed her to share a restroom. Unless it was one that was a one at a time and not stalls like more restrooms.
@seriously_meredith - That makes the most sense.
@breaking_expectations - then we could just toss it into the streets! XD
I am just grateful having a bathroom to use at age. I bet the kids would get together and decide which restrooms they girls and boys use.
I don’t think this is a good idea…
It would be better to just have a third bathroom…
I don’t see the harm.
Wait.. a 12 year old transgendered boy? Did I read that wrong?
I could see the use in primary schools because at that age kids just need to pee and most boys go into the womens bathrooms with their mothers. The problem comes in when kids, even at the age of 12, need to know the difference between the genders. I’m more confused that a 12 year old could be considered a trans-gender, but maybe we should just have bathrooms with regular toilets in enclosed stalls so that a guy or girl could use them.
Dual gender locker rooms and restrooms will be disaster in high schools.
This won’t end well
This has disaster written all over it…
They have one of those in Thailand. For boys, girls and transgendered. Why not here?
I thought I’d throw this out there, but men, I walk among you, I’ve used your bathrooms. Why do they look like the Chamber of Secrets?
Maybe we need four restrooms and not to base them on gender at all. 1.)Penises only 2.)Vaginas only 3.)both P & V 4.) Neither P nor V
Whaaaat? You’re kidding, right? Grouping people by “their biological gender amounts to discrimination”? I really don’t think that at all. I don’t want my son to attend a school where the genders are integrated in restrooms and locker rooms. It isn’t like they’re having girls only and boys only water fountains and cafeteria tables. Integrating boys and girls where privacy is a must shouldn’t happen, in my opinion. Not only is elementary school too young to be possibly seeing parts of the other gender, but this would NOT work out in high schools. Honestly, it’s just common sense why it wouldn’t work there.
This is a tricky situation.
Maine, Maine, Maine.. I swear I live in the state with the most transgenered, bisexual and overall just confused kids ever! Ha.. I had a transgenered kid in one of my class’s but he used the boys room didn’t even try the girls room, which is probably what that boy should do. Kids young, he’s probably really confused. I’m, of course, not against what he wants.. It’s his right.. but maybe they should just have him use a staff single rest room or the nurses rest room or something instead of making him pick or choose the female or male bathroom, it’ll probbaly be a comfort to the other students as well. Ahhh.. welcome to Maine.
@tsh44 - Good idea lol
I don’t know why genderless bathrooms helps transgendered people. Isn’t the problem that the transgendered person wants to use the bathroom/locker room of the gender they identify as, that they don’t want to share the bathroom/locker room with the gender they feel is the opposite of theirs?
The university I go to has all three. Boys, Girls, and Unisex. Why not just try and accommodate as needed?
What? No transgender restrooms? Awkward!
The idea of genderless bathrooms won’t help the problem with transgendered children. Children that are not transgendered are not going to want to change in front of the opposite sex, transgendered children are going to feel the same way. They should make accommodations for transgendered children.
No it is not discrimination.
Transgender people can just go shit in the woods, away from everyone else.
Problem Solved.
I can see organizations and sports teams being gender neutral, even bathrooms if they just have regular toilet stalls and not urinals. (I’m a very gender-neutral thinker, have no problem with seeing a person of either gender naked, but I still do not want to see a man use a urinal.) But locker rooms? Not everyone wants to get changed in front of the opposite gender! And at 12, many kids are already sexually curious. I can just imagine guys trying to peak at the girls and then being stupid over it later…I already got plenty of harassment from guys at that age. Last thing I needed would have been a gender-neutral locker room. Heck, I even hated changing in front of the other girls at that age!
As for not allowing the boy in the girl’s restroom…not sure what to think. If he really identifies as a girl, I can see why he would want to, but since the bathrooms are currently divided according to biological gender, then in this case, it should be his biological gender, not his mental one that decides which one he uses.
And for those who are confused about how a 12 year old can be transgender: being transgender does not mean he had a sex change. It means that even though he was born with a male body, he feels like a female. Sex is defined as one’s biological characteristics. Gender is one’s mental and emotional identity as a male or female. In many people, the sex and the gender are the same thing, but not in everyone. So yes, a 12 year old can already feel like they identify more with the opposite gender or feel like they were born into the wrong body.
Oh brother.
I can just see all the screaming Jr. high girls now…..”There’s a BOY in here looking at us!”
Gender neutral restrooms are a very bad idea. Though before solving the individual’s issue one should ponder, “Should a homosexual use the restroom for the opposite gender?”
@TheRealMelanie - Most transgender people know at a young age, especially now when it’s more out in the open.
Yes, I think it’s discrimination.
@madhousewife - Yeah, so the little boy used the girls room because he identifies as a girl. People have a problem with this though, because they still consider him a boy going into the girls bathroom. This is why it causes a problem. It would be much easier if trans people could go into the bathroom of their choosing without being told it was wrong.
this…won’t end well.
it won’t.
@Lighthouse_Oceanlover - The kid probably isn’t confused. If he knows what he wants at such a young age, maybe that shows even more that he was born that way. Just because there’s a lot of gay, bi, or trans people in Maine doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it :/
genderless restrooms? Hmmm. Okay, I support genderless sports teams and school organizations, but restrooms and locker rooms? I personally, like my privacy from guys in the locker room. Maybe it was how I was brought up. I dunno. Genderless locker rooms could be okay, but I’m not so sure I like the idea of genderless bathrooms. That’s just a bit, I dunno. If the bathrooms were all closed stalls with regular toilets, I could see that. Hmmmmm. I dunno.
It is wrong to ban a transgendered boy from the girls’ restroom. I can agree with that 100%
what a buncha hooey. not in MY country!
It’s a shame we can’t be more accepting and just let the poor kid use whatever bathroom he/she wants to use.
Uh oh. Here comes trouble.
no…
Here’s the better question: What kind of irresponsible parent allows their 12-year-old to have surgery to change their gender? They haven’t even gone through puberty yet!
@neverforqetmex3 - It was a joke.. It’s a running joke even by all the gay, bi, ect ppl here that it’s something in the water. I’ve lived in Maine since I was born and are close friends with alot of them. Doesn’t bother me any.
And it could be tat he was born that way.. Either way they should let the kid do what he wants and if it bothers others then there really isn’t too much harm in using the single bathrooms anyway.. I mean hell, I’d wanna use the single bathrooms if I was still in school! lol
i wouldn’t wanna go in there x_x
but then, i pee a lot, so it would be very difficult to wait all day…
uhm was anyone else disturbed by the fact that the transgender boy is TWELVE?
maybe it’s just me.
but uhh, my elementary school had gender-neutral bathrooms. worked out fine. of course, it was a one-toilet bathroom so only one person at a time could use it hahaha.but yeah mixing bathrooms would be a very bad idea.
It is discrimination, but genderless bathrooms/lockers/etc. are not the answer.
@laurenmaureen - Nah… kids as young as six have been reported to be aware of their own gender identity disorders. Gender is a complicated thing.
My first thought was why not keep the traditional male and female washrooms and just add a third unisex washroom
@seriously_meredith - although, one day I was walking towards a family bathroom in JCPenney’s. I could see from a little bit away that the door was open, so we headed around the corner and came face to face with a man going to the bathroom with the door wide open. I saw way more than I wanted to, and I had P with me so that was absolutely uncalled for
@steph843 - I would agree with this. I personally would not be comfortable using the restroom if I knew there was a male in there with me. And co-ed locker rooms? for elementary school?? for high school?? that just seems to be asking for trouble
@sempermedusa - I don’t think it’s irresponsible at all. There’s actually quite a few medical conditions that children can be born with, that upon appearance they are female, but internally are male. Most of those kids have surgery – some at a very young age – to change their outward appearance to match their internal gender. I know several females that were born with male parts, and have had surgery to create themselves as female because that is what they identified with and felt they were.
I’m fine with genderless restrooms. But, I’ve not heard of any genderless people who would be able to use them.
@laurenmaureen - A lot of transgender people know when they’re really young. Especially cause it’s more well known now.
@Lighthouse_Oceanlover - Oh, okay! Yeah, I only know because I’m very close to people that have experienced it. I agree! Even just a separate unisex bathroom would be helpful as well
@TheRealMelanie - My sentiments exactly. Where are this child’s parents, physically and mentally? Cher made her daughter wait until she was 21.
Well we all have it here now. One article last week stated that a High School kid was arrested for “Making out” with a 14 year old High School kid and now we have a situration where it is alright for boys and girls to be in the same bathroom. A lawyer will have a hayday with this one in the case of the High School boy making out in a All Gender Bathroom with a High School Girl. With this confict of laws is there any wonder why High School kids or any age kids do not know legal or not legal laws that tells them at what age do you deal with a female. This comment is base on the blog this week about the High School boy making out with a High School girl and being arrested for it. Conclusion, two separate bathrooms like always.
fuck no! if you look like a girl.. go to the girls room. if you look like a guy.. go to the guys room. the end.
@ccarothers - Really? Because girls keep telling me the women’s room are worst than the men’s room… apart from the smell. >_>
Why not make 3 rooms? o_O I’m sure the transgender kids would love the spacious rooms–you know due to not being discriminatory on room sizes.
Locker rooms? Are you kidding me? Over a transgendered kid trying to take a piss? This is ridiculous, and is going to end VERY badly. Just let the kid use the girls bathroom, it’s not a big deal. When it comes to the exposure of biological parts, gender discrimination is necessary at ANY age.
If the kids are never introduced to split gender restrooms (like they are now) then they wouldn’t be confused by integrated restrooms. I would just hope they get rid of the open urinals, as to maintain privacy regardless of your chosen sex.
@MsBangBang - What about the scene kids who look gender neutral? I went to high school with at least 3 people who identified as the opposite gender, and looked the part as well.
I imagine the cry would go out that you’d need another locker room/bathroom so you don’t discriminate against religiously-minded children who want to preserve the sanctity of God-given gender… and then you have entire campuses dedicated to locker rooms and bathrooms after every single “Something-Something Rights Group” takes a whack at it. Besides as much, if you went with the third unisex bathroom solution, you better have a preexisting room with preexisting connections to power and water lines, or else you’re going to need to cut some more faculty to afford those kinds of renovations in school districts that are probably already stretching their budgets as far as humanly possible.
If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck. How has our society come to the point where we allow some adolescent confusion transform a child into another gender, to pretend they are something they are not, and then call it discrimination when there is bias? There is a level of ridiculousness here which boggles the mind. Next I suppose we’ll have sixty year old men suing twenty-five year old women for age discrimination because the girl won’t go out with them on a date.
I really wasn’t expecting that question. I was getting ready to type “NO TO GENDERLESS RESTROOOOOMS!”
But to answer your actual question, yeah I guess so, if he was transgender. I am more interested in how come he is transgender so young?
I have three kids. I don’t treat them all exactly the same, yet I am fair to each of them. They have different talents, interests, needs and genders. It would do no good to buy a prom dress for the boy, or a trumpet for the ones who don’t play trumpet, or size 7 Ugg boots for the size 13 Keds wearer…acknowledging differences does NOT equal discrimination.
Discrimination is denying appropriate respect, freedom and protection to anyone, for any reason.
I think having gender specific bathrooms in a situation where a number of people are expected to be needing to use them at the same time is PROTECTING the respect, freedom and protection of the people.
In a tiny restaurant or small office, one genderless, handicap accessable restroom is sufficient. In a large office, school, public gathering place..it’s not, because it doesn’t meet the appropriate needs of the people involved.
I don’t really want my first grade little girl sharing the restroom with the 8th grade boy talking boy talk to the other 8th grade boys. I have nothing against 8th grade boys, I don’t want to deny them any of their rights. I don’t think it takes away their rights to have my little girl tinkle across the hall. Maybe we should put tampon and sanitary napkin dispensers in the boys room, would that make it more fair?
We have SO many practical issues to deal with in society, do we really have to invent philosophical issues on top of it?
Discrimination would be denying someone access to any clean, private restroom, not to a particular clean, private restroom.
Anyone who has looked “down there” has immediate visual evidence of what his or her sex is. To deny this evidence is an act of insanity! And few people are more dangerous than those who base their life’s activities around the insanity of sexual perversion. To children, in particular. To abet such derangements is not only to expose innocent adults and children to the most vile aspect of human existance, but is an act of criminal insanity in itself. This is what happens when common decency is overruled by political correctness- a form of insanity in itself.
Why on earth should his mental gender affect where he goes to the restroom???? If I had a daughter at that school and a natural boy wanted to use the girls room, I would be absolutely appalled that they would even consider it. I know that if I had seen a boy use the girls room at the age of elementary school kids, I would have been really grossed out. And besides, where do his rights become more important than the other children’s'? Why should he be allowed to use the girls restroom with no thought whatsoever to the feelings of the children and their parent? That is just flat out ridiculous and it seems like that child just needs a good stern lecture and some discipline at home.
In my elementary school boys and girls shared the same bathrooms so I don’t really see a problem. Wenever had issues.
i have the perfect solution. lets stop referring to them as “boys” and “girls”. lets label the bathrooms, XX and XY. you go to the one your chromosomes match.
This has bad idea written all over it.
Why not three bathrooms? Males, Females, and a one for whoever. The third one doesn’t have to be only specifically for transgendered individuals, it can be a unisex bathroom with a don’t ask, don’t tell policy.
if you have a penis, you need to be in the men’s room, and if you have a vagina, you need to be in the ladies’ room. otherwise any guy could just throw on a wig and some girl clothes and pretend to be transgendered, then go harass women in the ladies’ room.
A 12 year old transgendered? Geez. That’s pretty young.
Its not discrimination. Everyone is screaming about the right of this boy, but what about the rights of the girls who would be forced to share a bathroom and possibly become exposed to some things too early? The needs of many outweigh the needs of one.
How about single, individual only bathrooms?
A transgendered boy should be able to use a girls bathroom. But genderless bathrooms? No way. Where I live, by 11 years old the kids were already having sex, I can totally see something scandalous happening in those bathrooms/locker rooms. Genderless bathrooms are just inappropriate. Especially in elementary school. At that age, I remember the girls being too shy to change on front of other girls so I know I would have been way too shy to get changed in front of my male class mates at 9 years old. Or use the same bathroom with them. This is the dumbest idea ever.
Also, a 12 year old transgendered??? What parent would let their 12 year old do that! If I had a son that wanted to do that, I would make him wait til he was at least 18 to know for sure thats what he wanted!
I don’t think it’s discrimination, but I also don’t see the point in separating things based on gender up until a certain age. And, honestly, I think its kind of pointless to worry about an adult male being in the same restroom as an underage girl but nobody worries about an adult male using the same restroom as an underage boy. Especially since most pedophiles that you end up hearing about in the news and whatnot are adult males who prey on underage boys.
@tsh44 - hahahahahahaha! Exactly!
@beautiful___nightmare - let me clarify.. the gender that one identifies themselves as, whether it be male or female, should use the assigned bathroom and anyone who has a problem with it can get over it. This should not be abused (aka.. you cant identify with a different gender each week.. thats just dumb.)
On a whim, I did a google on transgender restrooms. It was interesting. Some schools already have them–and dr’s & densitst’s ofc’s. one occupant at a time would make sense–otherwise you are just setting up for a girl in a room full of guys–you get my drift. Sexual assault is as big a prob as hate-crime assault.
especially interesting is a thing in Jacksonville Fla
a guy transitioning to gal has been on hormones for a couple years–but is still a male on their drivers’ liscence. the cops arrested them. half the comments are harshing on the cops for being redneck fundie yaddayadda buzzword so and so’s.
On the other hand, the article indicates the person got ‘beligerent’ after being removed from the restroom. So it’s a case of who said what
would I sound paranoid if i said this sounds like a sitch made for an agent provocateur? People on either side of the issue would just love for something to go wrong
But here’s a statement that makes some sense (note–I didn’t say it):
“Lastly, I don’t believe local laws, even if your could define “gender” could override medical recommendations of “real-life” test.
I think the real problem is the lack of medical professionals advocating for law changes withing the legal system.
At the very least a physician who is treating for gender dysphoria should provide a letter of recommendation that his/her patient be provided the privileges of the said gender during the transition, and that the gender marker on his/her papers be changed at the time of the name change, not the SRS.”
Read more: http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2002#ixzz0kliMsmhs
http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2002
I think that a transgender should be allowed to use the restroom they want at a certain age, maybe 18, when they’ve clearly decided. At 12 years old, how do you know that he wont change his mind or anything? People’s sexuality switches back and forth. Plus, can you imagine high schools teens in intergrated bathrooms? I wouldn’t even wanna use that for fear of walking in on people hooking up/ having sex/ sexual assaults.
So if I want to go into the girls’ restroom, I just claim to feel like a girl that day, right? Truly, we live in interesting times. I blogged on this, myself. I will update it, and user-tag you, with a link to this post! @nnrule - Exactly right!
@tsh44 - I actually think doing that makes sense. I mean, a transgendered boy identifies himself as one of the girls, right? He could do so but he still cannot go to a vagina-only bathroom ‘coz he doesn’t have a vagina.
But gender is somewhat different from sexuality.
YES. Now women too will have to deal with WATER EVERYWHERE FOR NO REASON.
Also, every stall door being torn down from when some dude had to take a monster shit and that fucking door was just in the way.
Plus! We guys get to have one of those awesome couches! Now it’s our turn to soak it with urine!
BEST OF BOTH WORLDS BABY!
Lunacy
I don’t know about this. I can see the bathrooms if the urinals are taken out the equation, but locker rooms? That seems a bit much.
@ccarothers - girls bathrooms are worse… we have a tendency to hover.. boys on the other hand just go. lol.
@seriously_meredith - agree
Kid just needs to go to the bathroom where he/she can and not cause a fuss.
Honestly, I think some people are just looking to cause trouble.
Lol I guess by definition yes,this is discrimination. But atleast where I’m from, genderless bathrooms is the worst. idea. in the world. “Bathroom discrimination” ain’t gonna kill nobody. Also, 12 year old transgender boy. How the hell does he/she/it/alien even know what transgender is @ 12!?!
We have genderless bathrooms in our homes, why not in public?
sharing a bathroom doesn’t scare me tremendously, but it does make me uncomfortable. sharing shower rooms, locker rooms, etc? forget it. i’m not sharing that space with men.
if you have a penis, you are a BOY until you get rid of it. you can use the bathroom that was assigned to you. did he really think that would go over well when he walked in there?
*head scratch*
I just don’t want the women coming into the mens rooms and causing those long lines that they seem to have inevitably in the womens rooms. That is all I’ve thought about in this regard since I heard about it. I can just see it at the ball games and concerts, etc. Now the men will have to wait in long lines, too, because of the women using OUR RESTROOM!!!
So, because one person was denied access to the opposite sex’s bathroom everyone has to change? How does it specifically hurt this transgender child . . . CHILD to have to admit that he has a penis? Does he think the girl really want him in their bathroom? What about all those boys and . . . this is the STUPIDEST thing I’ve heard of in awhile.
technically it’s discrimination, just like it’s discrimination not to turn left from the right turn lane or to decide to get a cat instead of a dog. discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing.
every time people like these think of something new they want to enforce it’s stupider than the last time. This is really really stupid.
If they absolutely have to have bathrooms and locker rooms that aren’t gender-specific they need to be single-person individual rooms with locking doors. at least for safety against sexual abuse and embarrassment if for nothing else. safety and privacy in vulnerable settings like bathrooms is a very basic and important human right which they’re throwing out completely.
This is the leftist agenda at its worst: “All that is solid melts into air.”
Boys go to boys girls to the girls
I believe there are transgendered washrooms in Thailand.