April 16, 2010
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Homosexuality and Christianity
I was just reading an article about Christian music artist Jennifer Knapp and how she came out of the closet and admitted she was lesbian.
Rev. DL Foster was quoted in the article. He is the founder of the “Gay Christian Movement Watch” website (No word on why he is so committed to watching gays).
In the article, Rev. DL Foster was quoted as saying, “‘For a person to try and combine [being gay and being a Christian music artist] is not biblically correct, and I would hope that the church would reject such music because it does not represent us,’ he said. ‘To me, it doesn’t matter if you are openly gay or closeted gay, sin is still sin.’” Here is the link: Link
Is it against the Bible to be both a Christian artist and be a lesbian?
Comments (336)
I’d love to see answers to this.
time for an artistic change?
this is going to get nasty D:
It’s not wrong, but I suppose it’s counter-intuitive….. unless you’re into self-loathing.
The artist part is completely a moot point. Is it against the bible to be Christian and Lesbian (or gay) would be the question you’re masking.
Since the bible is full of hypocrisy and terrible things (such as stoning people to death, slavery, and random mysogeny), I would say that you can easily discredit the bible’s literal interpretations and instead, focus on living a life of love to Christ. There’s nothing wrong with being homosexual – there are many animals in nature that are homosexual and “god” has no problems with that happening. Humans are animals too, and surprise surprise, it happens!
I think it’s awful that people discriminate anyone because of a stupid, outdated book of lies and rules to control people and races.
I think it’s a load of crap. ‘God’ is supposedly accepting of everyone, therefore gays and lesbians are included.
I am a Muslim. I can’t speak for the Bible. I’ll leave this to the Christians.
I don’t give a shit about what goat and sheep herders from millenia ago thought of homosexuality.
I believe in equality - Simple. Logical.
@OhItWontBeForever - Don’t worry, they’ll get it quite wrong anyway. Its what they’re good at.
Not wrong to be a lesbian since girl-on-girl action is hot. Gay dudes are a different story. That shit is clearly wrong.
@HomeStarKike - Christians, you mean?
The key word is “us”. The Rev said they don’t represent us. That doesn’t mean me. I’m a Christian. I have tried to understand homosexuality and lesbianism for a long long time. I have finally accepted it. I have Christian friends who are “gay”. They love God and God loves them. They love me as well and I love them. I personally am “straight” but I know my friends are in loving relationships. I know this doesn’t answer your question so…It’s okay.
On Frontline on the DS show they had a documentary about a Black white Supremist. I guess blindness has something to do with it?
God hates sin. Sex between a two men or two woman is wrong. However, I still believe someone can be a Christian and be a homosexual. The sin comes down to acting on it. Embracing the homosexuality and deciding that your way is better and you don’t care what God says. What makes me question whether she is really a Christian or not, is the fact that she is “coming out” almost as if to embrace it–but that’s really not for me to say.
But as a Christian, I would like to say that Christians(true one’s anyway) do not hate homosexuals. They believe that what they are doing is sin, but that is not the same thing as hating them. And that is not to say that no Christian has ever done any nasty thing to a homosexual, they have, and I think it’s wrong and not Christ-like.
@nodnarbassoon - Amen
@BeKa28 - Agree.
@haloed - the koran is much worse , love .
@nylondare - I agree with a lot of what you said, but the difference I think–to what you said about how all sin is sin–which it is–But homosexuality is different in that is a lifestyle choice. A choice to decidedlynot do what God says and to repeat the same sin intentionally, repeatedly. Like I said in my previous comment, there’s a difference between being gay and committing to that lifestyle.
@nylondare - I agree, though just because it’s worse doesn’t make the bible okay
well , i`m christian , but i`m not gay , & i`m not speaking for all christians , but I DO NOT CARE IF SOMEONE IS GAY OR NOT . people are people , everyone is like everyone else , gay or straight . personally , i HATE HATE HATE seeing christians harrass & hate gay people , because they put such a bad name on christians . God`s greatest commandment is love , & that`s what i live by & live for . i know homosexuality is a sin & all , but the bible says not to judge & to love more than it says homosexuality is bad . we`re all sinners , so why is their sin any worse? cause it`s not . lying & murder are the same sin , one`s not worse than the other . christians are always like “oh , but they KEEP doing their sin!” & blah blah blah . if you`re a christian , think about it ; how many times have you lied & said you wouldn`t do it again , but you KEEP doing it? exactly . we all sin & do bad stuff , it just depends on whether we admit those sins to God or not & ask for forgiveness . they always say this stupid stuff like “i don`t wanna be friends with a sinner” or crap like that . well DANG , everyone around you is a sinner! why are gays so much worse?! sometimes i`m just furiousss at how christians think & what they say , cause most of the time , it`s just stupid & contradicting . you don`t even have to be a christian , just hating gays as a whole is pointless & doesn`t make any sense . idc what anyone says , i know my bible & i`m a christian that supports gay rights & equality . i don`t see why not .
anyway , i don`t see what gay people did so wrong , so i love & accept anyone , no matter what their sexuality is . it`s stupid to do otherwise .
@BeKa28 - I’m confused by your comment. You seem to have nothing against gay people and yet you assume it’s a choice… which it isn’t. I’m heterosexual so I’m not arguing for myself, but my mother in law is gay. No person would leave their husband and face ridicule and unacceptance for a choice. She had no choice. It’s what’s in her heart. She’s a good Christian and is one of the most loving and accepting people that I know.
I really hope that you do not ignorantly believe that homosexuality is a choice. People love who they love.
@BeKa28 - who made gays? another thing , did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual? or were you just born that way?
I am gay and I also consider myself a Christian. I am God’s creation, so either he made me this way or he made a mistake. If he made a mistake, then he has made many mistakes and I was always taught that God NEVER made a single mistake. If all homosexuals are going to hell, I will be in good company. Do you know who hated homosexuals? Adolf Hitler did…just saying.
@haloed - Nope, I’m not assuming that being gay is a choice. But I think deciding to act on it–as in to be in a relationship with someone of the same sex, or to have sex with them–is wrong. It’s not an easy thing to say and it’s not an easy thing to do–I can’t imagine not being able to act on my feelings. But it’s still, I believe what’s right. I knew someone who was gay and in a relationship and then he became a christian. He knew God says that it’s wrong, so he gave up that lifestyle even though he is still gay.
@nylondare - God made gays, just like he made everyone else who sins. And again, I am not saying they CHOSE to be that way. I’m saying they have the CHOICE on how they live. Whether they engage in relationships with someone of the same sex etc.
@BeKa28 - think about it ; you`re straight , right? why would you sleep with the same sex? is that what your brain is telling you? no . your brain is telling you that you`re attracted to the opposite sex .
@BeKa28 - Well said …
My heart sinks as I read this. It sounds like she is not only coming out as a homosexual but choosing to separate herself from the faithful. Given the choice to live with her sin or live with her faith, she’s chosen her sin while constructing an alternate faith to maintain the illusion, at least in her own mind, that she is still “a good Christian”.
But then I think about how most Christians, myself included, do this with our own sins. It’s just that not all of them are so controversial–sins like pride, coveting or lust–but still we do it and choose to hide our true selves from our brothers and sisters and not allow them to lovingly hold us accountable. So we keep our sins secret, or we separate ourselves from the body of Christ and try to construct an alternate body which sanctifies our pet sin.
@nylondare - I believe that they’re brain is telling them to have sex with someone of the same sex–I never denied that. But it’s possible to have self control–to resist. Sometimes MY brain tells me to have sex with someone I like. I may feel like that but I know it’s wrong to do that before I’m married so even though that’s what my brain is telling me, I having self control, and don’t do it.
i think it is but sin is sin and god hate every sin the same way no matter what but you should still be happy with what you are and you shouldnt be ashmaded of what makes you you
@beautifullymindfull - Well said.
Everyone struggles with sin. The church shouldn’t condemn those who actually have the balls to admit that they struggle, only those who give up the struggle.
Oh this is gonna be good.
So this means that either (a) all true Christian music is performed by superhumans who are absolutely sinless or (b) there is no such thing as true Christian music because no human can be sinless. Cute. Something about casting stones comes to mind… or removing the log from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from another…
… And I’m a Christian.
In the article, Rev. DL Foster was quoted as saying, “‘For a person to try and combine [being gay and being a Christian music artist] is not biblically correct, and I would hope that the church would reject such music because it does not represent us’…
wtf?
It seems outright discriminatory to reject the music for the artists’ self-identity and not its substance.
@BeKa28 - ahhhh , but they can’t have sex with the opposite sex . why? cause that’s no who they’re attractedto . just like we can’t had sex with the same sex , because that’s not who we’re attracted to .
@nylondare - because God made us and knows what is best for us, and He says it’s wrong. If you disagree with that, then what you said does make sense, and people should do whatever their body wills them to do.
the bible was written by man right? thus it’s full of opinionated stuff…i dont think being gay or straight should reflect what that religion has to say
most of what i’ve read in the bible specifies men ‘lying’ with other men, no mention of lesbians, if we take the bible literally.
OMG
wait OMFG
@designandart - i really wish more people thought like you, or at least that the ones who do would speak up. i am gay and was raised christian, but left because of all the hateful spewing that goes on. kinda like the stuff that we’ll probably see here.
Sin is sin? Eh, I dont believe god would worry too much about who we choose to love, I think he is more conserned with who we choose to hate.
Rawr, I am so hateful.
Anyways, the questions says that “Is it against the Bible to be both a Christian artist and be a lesbian?”
Everyone has just been addressing from personal opinion not from the Bible…hmm…Is it against the Bible…?
The Christian bible says nothing on woman-on-woman. Didn’t the Leviticus line mention that if a man were to lie with another man is sin?
Actually, I don’t believe the Bible uses the term Christian more than once or twice, but that said, the Bible does explicitly condemn homosexual activity, so I suppose the answer to your question would have to be yes.
@BeKa28 -
“The sin comes down to acting on it.”Jesus also says that even if you look at a woman with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart. The same with anger – hating your brother or sister or any other person is equivalent to murder in the eyes of God (matt. 5:27-28) because he views both as equal in sin. It’s not just the action.
I agree with your point of “hate the sin, not the sinner.”
This is why Christianity is so stupid.
I don’t think that they should reject her music because, obviously, her music is reflective of Christianity and God. I doubt that she is talking all about being a lesbian and influencing others with that within her music. It is against the Bible to be gay, but I believe that you can still be a Christian and be gay.
The bible says loads of things that isn’t followed today, for example that a woman who isn’t covering her hair might as well cut it off, then men have the right to beat their wifes and so on.
The reading of the bible has changed alot over the years, and the book itself didn’t get the form it has today until long after christ was dead. So I think being litteral in the reading when it comes to gay is just as strange as being litteral when it comes to alo of other stuff.The text was written in a different cultural context and you need to have that in consideration when making your own mind about what to agree and disagree with.
@teamgraphicselite - Yes, I agree. We all fall short and gay people would also sin when they lust after someone of the same sex, but like i said, it comes down to whether you pursue godliness, and repent from sin or whether you decide you don’t care and your going to follow whatever you want to do.
I dont know this artist but she is a person & should be treated with respect whether people agree with her stance or not.
I dont see why people dont just agree to disagree & leave people alone. How is her or any other woman’s decision to love another woman going to impact your life? Geez…
I can see this causing a spit war. Uhoh.
homosexuality is a sin, period, without being an artist. romans 1:20-32. It’s contradictory to say you’re a christian yet openly and defiantly live in sin; like saying ‘Im a christian and a professional thief’. We all sin, of course; but to live in sin and justify it is different. Paul said that people who continued to live in sin should not be members of the church, but still visited and loved like any other human being.
oxymoron
I don’t think the Bible makes any mention (good or bad) about the “christian music” profession, so…..yeah, I think it’s “allowable,” by Biblical standards.
Also – I don’t think women can be lesbians; they either are lesbians, or they aren’t.
Technically it forbids men from doing the gay nasty, not women. But it also forbids trimming your beard so who cares.
United Church of Canada.
That’s all I need to say.
I think if they are a non- practicing Homosexual it would be fine.
I’m gay and not christian. but im not really sure if that works. from a Christian POV all sins are the same. therefore, being a Christian artist and a lesbian is somewhat similar to being a proud pedophile and a priest (as many seem to be). and just to be clear, i am speaking from a Christian point of view, not my own.
She is no longer labeling herself a Christian artist…. just fyi.
meh, religion. i’m not a big fan of it when it comes to this stuff. i’m not much a fan of anything when it comes to suppressing homosexuality like anti-gay marriage stuff. i dunno, if she wants to be christian, it’s her choice. and it’s her fans’ choices to listen to her music. i don’t think it’s right for other ‘christians’ to bash on her for being lesbian and a christian. it’s like people telling me to go to church to be “purified” because i’m lesbian. lol, like i’m going to go do that. it’s my choice whether i want to go to church or not.
anyway, she’s hot.
mm.
“For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with
the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3″Why do you look at the speck
of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in
your own eye? 4How can you
say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all
the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your
own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your
brother’s eye.”
- Matthew 7:2-5
Only God can judge the content of someone’s heart.
God doesnt hate homosexuals. he hates their sin. big difference there people!!!
Well if you are going to get all nit picky about it… Levictus says it is a sin for “to lay with a man as a woman.” It doesn’t actually say anything about lesbianism being a sin.
Jessica Simpson was a Christian musician too. The church drove her out because of her curves. Too sexy to sing their songs.
supposedly, yes. i was taught growing up (in a christian family) that homosexuality was a sin, unacceptable, etc.
luckily, i have an independent streak that prevented me from buying into this nonsense, and christianity in general. it’s really awful that people still believe this way.
Obviously not.
WE ARE ALL SINNERS.
Every Christian sins. So it makes no sense to proclaim homosexuality as the one sin that is Christian free. The real problem is that normalizing homosexuality is THE goal of the gay rights agenda.
@Unstoppable_Inner_Strength - THANK YOU! Finally someone with a brain
It’s not wrong to have homosexual tendencies, it’s only sinful to actually act upon them.
@Verhungerte_Leiche - Thanks. Well, it really doesn’t take a genius to dismiss the bible entirely as mere stories written by goat herders. I mean, there are few things more obvious than that, ya know?
@Ricardo98 - True. I love the Jessica Simpson analogy.
Personally I was raised in a conservative Catholic background, but I have grown from the prejudice that most Christian churches teach. I do not think that there is anything wrong with being homosexual or even bisexual. I do not believe it is a sin in God’s eyes, because He/She (or the Source if you prefer) loves us just as we naturally are.
IMHO I also think that most people are actually naturally “bisexual” to varying degrees (some more into opposite sex, some into same, others 50/50). It is cultures norms and rules that tell us to be only one or the other – not bisexual or even asexual. I believe strongly in studies like Kinsey’s Report and Klein’s Research supporting this. Basically it is not a black and white world between heterosexuals and homosexuals. There are various grays in between these.
…I personally cannot come to the conclusion that homosexual ACTIONS are condoned by the Bible. I know professing Christians who evidence Christ’s work VERY strongly in their lives who DO believe the Bible does not explicitly condemn loving committed homosexual marriages. So, A) this isn’t a clear issue. I wish I could come to the conclusion that homosexual actions were ok, but I can’t after studying both sides of the issue B) being lesbian (or gay) is different than acting on that nature C)…I think there are much clearer more prevalent sins that the church kinda needs to address, and we need to approach the issue of homosexuality and the sinfulness thereof humbly with the knowledge that we could be wrong, whichever side we take.
So, i’d listen to her if i liked her music.
Sin is sin, so yes, if you are gay you are sinning, but who is to say that their sin is any worse than our own sins. In the bible, when it lists the sins in whatever verse, homosexuality is included along with the listing of all the other sins. (aldutery etc.)
We are all children under God’s light, but they are sinning. But I think they sin the same way we do, but just in a different way, and no one is expected to be perfect.
It says in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination to God. You can be a Christian and have homosexual tendencies, as long as you do not act on them. God created everyone, but I think orientation comes about from many different factors affecting our lives aside from how we were born. I know of a man who is gay and decided to stay single, because as a Christian, he knew that to lie with another man would be a sin.
You may have homosexual tendencies from a very young age. I do not know whether the feelings are wrong or not, but to act on them is DEFINITELY wrong.
I don’t see why God condemns homosexuality but supposedly love everyone. I personally think homosexuality is genetic/biological, so why would that be a sin? I use the Bible as a guide because it was written 2,000 years ago when we had no idea what biology was. God created all this, right? I’ve already been bashed for my beliefs by two extremists on Shannon’s facebook wall. So if you want to bash me, go for it, but I won’t read it.
Against the bible? Maybe not, but redundant and counter intuitive, yea.
It is clearly stated in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. Nowhere does it say that God hates homosexuals. I am a born again Christian and I do not hate homosexuals. I believe that homosexuality is against God’s will, but so is lying, cheating, etc. All sin is equal- as hard as that is to believe- it is. No sin is “bigger” or “worse” than another. The reason why sexual sins are looked upon as being “worse” is because not only is the person sinning against God but against himself and the other person. Living a life of homosexuality is sin, as well as living as a liar is too. But that does not justify it.
God does not hate the sinner, He hates the SIN. But God is ALL FORGIVING. If we just confess our sins to Him and ask for forgiveness He said He will throw our sin as far as the east is from the west. Meaning, He will never look back at it again. Not only does He FORGIVE but he FORGETS as well. Homosexuals can realize that that lifestyle is not what God intended and He can change their ways! Jesus was BRUTALLY murdered for MY sins! and how will I repay Him? Live a life of sin? NO. I try my hardest to live my life in a way that is pleasing to Him.
I am not trying to press my beliefs on ANYONE! I am in no way a “bible thumper” as some would say. I have studied the Bible all my life and this is what I believe! I take joy in sharing what God has done for us and how He saved me!
I am not trying to offend anyone here! Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and thankfully we live in America to be able to freely discuss this!
@nylondare - you said it better than I could!
According to the Bible its on the same level as Anger…. and well.. a lot of people are angry.
This is a publicity stunt to get more albums sales…haha
My Ipod is full of Christian music from her and Michelle Tumes–if it weren’t for them I wouldn’t have rediscovered my faith in God.
This is the most extensive, well thought through discussion of homosexuallity from a christian point of view that i’ve found Discussion
Great job, Dan. Now you get to put up with the uber-Christians and uber-atheists arguing like insane people.
Personally, I’m not surprised by this, but I AM disappointed. Gay people have just as much of a right to praise God as straight people. Of course, they’d certainly have lower album sales.
I’m a Christian, but I’m always shocked by the church’s logic. They reject pregnant teens, women who have had abortions, and gay people, yet wonder, “Why are people leaving Christianity.” Of course, this is a very general statement and does not apply to all churches, but it’s too common.
can someone tell me where exactly in the bible it says “dont be gay, that’s bad” ?
@xnotxbeautifulx - On the other hand, acting out on homosexuality is not the “content of a man’s heart”, but an action, and the Bible does tell us to judge the actions of those professing to be Christians and not to associate with those who profess Christianity and yet live in open rebellion against the teachings of the Bible.
wow. well my answer is that it is not against the bible. if someone picks apart the bible, they could start 1000 different religions. oh, they DID!!!! well anyway, god looks at individual hearts. he knows the difference between someone purposely living in sin and the person who believes in their heart they are doing nothing wrong. i doubt jennifer is sweating this. i doubt she brought it out for attention. i bet she struggled for years brainwashed in the church that her desires were sinful. and now she is awake. good for jennifer!!! <— i love that name…..
@SKANLYN - Now that’s funny!
if you wanna be all technical. yes, technically it is against the bible to be a homosexual and christian because you’re living in sin, but aren’t we all living in sin already, because we’re not perfect, according to this almighty God, and if that’s true, aren’t all sins seen equally in God’s eyes, from a harmless lie, to brutally murdering another human, and if THAT’S true, then we’re all living in sin, and we’re all liars, cheaters, murders and homosexual, in God’s eyes.
now morally, is another question. if you want to love God and be gay then hell, what do I care? but apparently, the Christians get a little antsy in their pantsy when things like “acceptance” and “love” (for homosexuals) are thrown around.
@Oriental_soup_dude
I’m checking it out. People against the church will have a field day with this.
You have received so many good comments on this controversial subject. I am a Christian but I certainly don’t hate gays. However, as far as whether it is sin or not is not up to me at all. It is not what I think about it that matters in the least. The question is what does the Bible say? That is all that really matters. From what I read in the Bible, God abhors homosexuality. The Bible says it is against nature, it is against what God created and the way I read it, there will be no homosexuals allowed to go to heaven without repentance. Now, that is not what I am saying will happen because of the way I think but that is the way the Bible reads as far as I can see. Now, if we are Christians, we believe the Bible. If we don’t believe the Bible, then what God says in the Bible won’t matter.
So, what I am saying is that the decisions are not up to me or any other human being. It is what God says that matters. If I had a child that was gay, I would still love them unconditionally but that would not change what God said just because they were my child and I loved them.
There are many things I don’t understand about gays. Even though I believe what I said above, if a person is born gay and cannot help that, then how could God hold them accountable for that. But then would that be like a pedophile. I have seen them on TV who say that no matter how much rehab they get, they will always desire to molest children. I don’t think pedophiles will go to heaven either so where is the line drawn. I think that is why only God understands fully these things. It is too deep for me. But I believe that God means what He says and that is the way it will be whether others think it is right or not.
I haven’t read any of the responses to this entry, but I actually just posted my own entry on a feud I had with my mother over homosexuality and the Bible. I had suggested an amazing book to her, and she completely hated it because it had a gay couple in it. She yelled at me about homosexuality being a sin and how I needed to read my Bible. When I pointed out that she herself had not read her Bible or gone to church in years, she told me that she didn’t have to because her beliefs were in check.
…Okay.
So here’s how I think you can word homosexuality to a Bible fanatic (and I grew up fundamentalist btw):
“We are all born with sinful natures. If homosexuality is a sin, then what’s stopping someone from being born gay?”
Honestly, you may not agree with the act itself, but let the darn people live the way they want to. I’m personally proud of Jennifer Knapp for staying true to herself. Shocked, sure. But what’s to say that all Christians have to follow a rigid, harsh code? God is love and I’m sure he still loves her just as much as everyone else on this earth.
And that’s my rant.
Guess it’s just something you have to work through. Sin IS sin. But God see’s all sin equally. We’re all EQUALLY sinners. And Jesus loved everyone- Jesus loved/loves the homosexuals.
i also am Christian. i also happen to be queer. there are many a reason i do not think the two contradict.
if you are interested in a real conversation about it, try reading Andrew Marin’s “Love is an Orientation” he is a straight Christian man that has written a book on elevating the conversation between the Church and the LGBTQQIA community. his foundation, the Andrew Marin foundation is also another good source for both LGBTQQIA and Christians looking for a challenge.
i’m personally sick of arguing if it is a sin. it isn’t my job to decide if it is a sin or not. it is my job to love. my job to follow the conviction of the Holy Spirit. that is what i’m doing. i constantly check myself to make sure i am listening and it is no one’s job but God’s to tell me if i’m doing it right or wrong.
if you want to fight about it, you’re really just hurting yourself and the Kingdom. you wont get anywhere. go get out of your comfort zone and love someone. not to convert them or to change them but to Love them.
a few great sites are:http://www.ecwr.org/resources/the-bible-and-homosexuality.html
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
and Andrew’s foundation: http://www.loveisanorientation.com/
message me if you want to know more, i’m more than willing to have honest conversation, even if we don’t agree. i am, however, not willing to fight.
Read Romans Chapter 1. According to the Bible, it is a sin. I am a christian, and i Believe that the bible is the word of God. if you intend to do something that the Bible says not to do, and you choose to believe its alright anyway, then that is between you and God. but it hurts your whitness(and that of others) to the unsaved, and i believe that if you’re going to choose a life of sin you need to drop claiming the name of Christ. we are s’posed to be different. to be a light in the darkness. if we were the same, how could we claim to be saved?
Romans 12:1-2 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”
to have her in the spotlight, sporting the name of Christ, but living in a way that Her “belief” says is wrong just sends the wrong message and offends Christians who are walking with the Lord. live what you believe. or don’t claim to believe it.
There are “Christian” thieves, murderers, rapists, liars, embezzlers, etc…it’s not exactly an uncommon thing to be a Christian and a sinner…and according to most Christians I meet, all sin is the same, so why can’t a Christian be gay? It’s just like any other sin. But…that’s fucked up religious logic. Basically, I don’t think it really matters if you’re gay and Christian. It’s irrelevant. Sexuality and belief system are two separate things.
Bah. That probably makes no sense.
I knew I liked Jennifer Knapp for a reason.
and also i say great for Jennifer Knapp. She’s been playing Lilith Fair for years. i am proud to call myself both christian and gay as more and more people speak out about truth. coming out, especially in a public setting, is really REALLY hard. our world is SO heterosexist that straight people will never understand what it means to come out. visibility is everything, the more people that are willing to come out, the more people will understand we are just like everyone else and don’t deserve to be treated any different!
@OhItWontBeForever - I’m not aiming to pick a fight with you and what you believe, but what does the Koran have to say about homosexuality?
Wow. I just read that article. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this one, Dan.
This is what I believe to be the truth. The sacred text of Christianity happens to be the Bible. Whether or not it’s outdated, hypocritical, whatever, if you call yourself a Christian, the roots of your belief comes from the Bible. The Bible takes its stance on homosexuality and forbids it, therefore, if you call yourself a Christian, you are against it from association with the Bible. While you as an individual may claim to have nothing against other people’s life choices, your base religion forbids it [homosexuality]. So I think it’s accurate when the Reverend says that her music can’t represent the Christian community collectively. The Bible forbids it, she calls herself Christian, but is a lesbian. Too much contradiction there. I do have to make a point that I am not a Christian and I fully support peoples’ right to private life decisions, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone else.
That’s just my two cents!
@nothng_less - but do you eat meat with milk?
Do you eat pork?
Those things are also in your bible. Who is to say one transgression is worse then the other. You do not follow dietary law because it is the norm of Christianity to ignore it. They seem to think they are above that. You do it for comfort and ease. They “transgress”(as you see it anyway) because of how they feel in their hearts.
God hates sin and although he never hates the person, he DOES in fact hate that sin. If you have a truly good relationship with god, it is one in which you take things that god has said is A SIN, and flee from them. You are continually trying to become more like him, which includes obeying his word and taking convictions and dealing with them. You can be a christian and be homosexual, but how close can one really get to god when his word isnt being obeyed and you are being defiant that YOUR WAY is the better..? Theres no possible way. You cannot have such a weight of a sin as homosexuality that you are committing against god and never do anything about it and say that you have a growing relationship with god. A growing relationship with god includes taking the things that are an obstacle (which is your sin) and removing those from your life. Noone is perfect, but everyone still has the choice to sin. Homosexuality is sin, and if you come to believe that, then you cannot say that you dont choose to be homosexual. You do. Whether its something you feel compelled to do, you should really wonder whats the “compelling force” behind it. Because if god hates sin, which includes hating homosexuality, then he will NEVER be the “compelling force” to be homosexual. That comes from somewhere else. You can be a drug addict and be a christian, but with the weight of that sin between you and god..how can you really say you have a good relationship with god? If you were honest, you would know you cant. I cant judge someones salvation or heart but all i can tell you is what the bible says. And as a leader, no, you should not be a christian artist eith that kind if a sin. Because although all sin is sin- different sins have different consequences and just because you lie does not make god see you the same as the same person who killed someone, if you both havent repented and TURNED AWAY from those sins.
God has said if you “know sin” you do not know your heavenly father. -If you turn away from Gods word and continously sin in a particular way thinking yiur way is better than gods, then you cannot possibly KNOW God.
OH MY GOSH, STOP USING THE BIBLE AS AN EXCUSE FOR EVERYTHING AND JUSTIFYING OPPRESSION YOU HOMOPHOBIC FUCKERS.
This breaks my heart. Not that she came out-good for her! But that the Christian community would so blacklist her. That’s what they do-as soon as they see something “wrong” with you, you’re out. it’s like they’ve never heard of this thing called “love.” And I can say this, as I was an active member of the church for the first 20 years of my life, and It’s only been in the past year that the blinders have finally been lifted.
Way I see it…
…gotta love gay guys. That’s one more guy that’s not after a woman I find attractive.
…gotta sigh at lesbian women. That’s one more women I might find attractive that I’ll never have a chance with.
I’m actually pretty tired of reading about these types of articles.
Hey, I’ve got an idea! What about people get with the times? It’s 2010, being homosexual is natural. Get over it!
People are ridiculous for thinking being gay is a “sin”. If God is all powerful and mighty, why doesn’t he just create everyone a heterosexual if he doesn’t like the gays? Homosexuals are people just like all of us, and why would you care in who they are interested in pursuing a relationship with? As long as they are happy, we should all be happy. Also, why would people care about what the Bible says? I’ve read the Harry Potter books and you don’t see me go around and try to get through a wall at the train station…
@diverged - You are awesome!
My question would be: Is it against the teachings of Jesus to call yourself a “Christian” reverend while you put out a message of exclusion? What are the chances that Rev. DL Foster would be a Good Samaritan?
no this isnt going to nasty Dan is just an idiot. Dan you’r offending me 1) you stereotype the crap out of Christians 2) you act like your going to offend a lot of people when your wrong
I am a Christian and I am not gay and I have Gay friends. WHO ARE Christians. I do think it is wrong because God does not create Gays or Lesbians. Its choice. You werent born that way.
But i dont think its wrong to be a christian and be gay or Lesiban God loves everyone. there if you have beef with me say it now because i am not wrong!
@diverged - you are mean and a jerk quit being an idiot I dont hate gays and im a christian
NO-ONE “is” ‘a lesbian’! No matter how often people repeat this kind of lie, it does not wash. There is NO immutable cause for ‘lesbianism’, or any homo-sexuality. The cause, is solely and totally ARROGANCE! The EGO! Which, of course, listens so often to Satan.
These days, it’s “not surprising” that a girl like Jennifer Knapp goes ‘lesbian’…because God know’s it’s going on a lot! Because she is good looking, this has gone to her head. Just because Jennifer Knapp is good looking…does NOT mean that everything she does is good! Merely because she is good looking, does NOT count as an excuse as to inverting in to only herself, and other girls!
Her beauty, granted by God, is meant to be given to a man, a good man, who needs and deserves her.
What (excusing my candor for a moment), does she think she can have her pussy, and eat it (or those of other girls), and it’s up to poor old Jesus to pay for the sin, or God to forgive it???
NO!
This is reprehensible!
God bless Rev. Foster for speaking the truth against this travesty.
Jennifer Knapp should be strongly reprimanded for this behaviour, if she persists with it, then she (and other pursuing such vain, vulgar, vile sins as “lifestyles”) should be punished. If she were to die in this state, then her soul shall fry in Hell!
God forbid that happens, however, if she persists with such arrogant depravity, then it will be entirely deserved.
NO…NO-ONE can be “lesbian” and genuinely be Christian! NO-ONE can go “lesbian” and be genuinely spiritual or religious, at all!
It’s shocking that things have gotten to the point where people are SO conceited, that they imagine they can persist with terrible sin, and STILL picture themselves as being religious!
The two are NOT compatible!
The Soul is in a state of struggle and striving, towards The Light. Religion, is in absolute OPPOSITION to sin, for the sake of THE SOUL, and SOCIETY!
@NVPhotography - ABSOLUTELY FORBIDS IT!
As it SHOULD!
@PseudoEuphoric - Jesus did not sit with sinners just to sit with sinners, he sat with them so as to STOP them sinning!
Loving the sinner does NOT extend perpetually whilst they persistently sin!
There must be a CHANGE, a STOP!
We all DIE!
Errors must be rectified, and atoned for, BY THEN!
@Galbsadi - You should NOT feel forced to settle for that!
@cracker_stacker - Read the Bible, or any other bona fide spiritual scripture. God actually WILL hate certain people for what they’ve done!
@splinter1591 - No, after rejecting God, or assigning any partners to God…homo-sexuality is the worst transgression, for it wrenches apart Man and Woman at THE CORE!
Woman is NOT meant to go “with” woman, as Man is NOT meant to go “with” man.
Woman, goes with Man!
@who_I_really_want_2_be - God didn’t make a mistake, but we did. And those sins we’ve committed have caused a deterioration in God’s creation. God forms us as He always has – perfectly. But because of the cancer of sin, we are born into various kinds of defects.
I personally don’t believe that homosexuality is a biological thing one is born with. However, if it is, then, like alcoholism or the like, which, as I understand, is linked to genetics, that still does not discount the fact that we have a choice to act upon our weaknesses. The alcoholic still has a choice on whether or not to pick up the bottle, though they are under circumstances that make it extremely difficult to feel okay without a drop. That doesn’t stop them from resisting.
So it would be with homosexuals. If it IS genetic after all is said and done, there is still a choice to act upon it. And if we trust that God’s word is right and good according to His original design, then we are to adhere to that design.
Sin does not make doing so easy. No doubt. Genetic or not, though, homosexuality – that is, living the life intentionally or giving in even after trying to resist – is still a sin.
That said (and I think I might be accidentally preaching to the choir), I think it’s safe to conclude that God didn’t make any mistakes. We did. And it affected His perfect Creation to the core.
@nylondare - I echoed you what i wrote love that you wrote this
@NaitoOfNarnia - brilliant way to end it im saying that in all praise. “I think it’s safe to conclude that God didn’t
make any mistakes. We did. And it affected His perfect Creation to the
core.”
thats why God Sent his Son Jesus Christ to rid all bondage of sin we are free. no matter how many times we screw up God still forgives us!!!!
I just dont like how Dan Words things If he calls himself a christain he shouldnt be classifying christains like their aliens this is the number one reason i am not his friend because he writes biased blogs like The_messenjach777 he is narrowed minded and its these blogs that tick me off and confuse opinion with close minded blogs basically saying “My opinion is right and your all wrong” thanks Dan thats what your blog says to me all the time
@S_K_O_T - I hear what you are saying. And you’re right, the two don’t mix. HOWEVER, also keep in mind that we are in a state of being perfected…it’s an on-going thing. Though we sin at length, repeatedly, that doesn’t dismiss the fact that Jesus is in our hearts once we totally accept Him.
For Jennifer, what she is doing is totally and completely contradictory to the faith she supposedly still claims. However, even if she has rather dismissed Jesus in her daily life, Jesus has not dismissed her. Her salvation in Heaven is set for Jesus died for ALL sins. And since Jennifer was born long after Jesus, that means all sins she has committed already and those she will commit. She won’t go to Hell, but she will be lacking a lot of wonderful blessings in this life.
Does actively living in homosexuality or any OTHER sin (lying, stealing, gossiping, etc) have consequences? Absolutely? Will Jennifer’s ministry be hampered? Definitely. Is she living completely for Jesus by ALSO actively living in homosexuality? NO. But does that negate her whole faith or any other blessings God might give her? No.
Right now Jennifer is locked in a life that is at odds with Jesus. Because God calls us to actively live for Him. We both fully agree that it is impossible to live fully for God and live fully in sin (homosexually or otherwise). But that does not mean that her entire live with God is shot. Nor does it mean God is done with her.
Let’s give God more credit for His power and ability to work through someone’s life and understand that we don’t know everything going on in Jenn’s life and heart, either.
@S_K_O_T - how do u know what god considers a worse transgression?
@S_K_O_T - I can not help the way I was born.
I am not ashamed of it
it’s alright Christianity is just a fad. Give it another 1000 years and it will go away.
@Pcgecko85 - you are mean
@splinter1591 - oh my you did not come out of the womb thinking “im gonna love girls” stop thinking that……it was a psychosis process failures with boys or something
Be who and what you want to be and hopefully it will turn out to be who God intends that you really are
Labeling anyone is just saying that you know more than God does. Possibly a” lesbian christian” is just a challenge for us all, in not placing judgement on anyone’s most private life being held against them whether they chose to openly label themselves or remain in the closet forever. Who cares who anyone one fraternizes or sleeps with unless it it is just your own partner, that you don’t realize is creating a hidden adgenda for you to navigate unknowingly or alone? Music knows no gender and has no intimate sexual requirements.Why would we care about those details, if we only choose to just love, all people, music and God, for the benefits they all can allow, without sex or sexuality as a determining factor? God is the only judge. Why make music anything but a product of one of his highest blessings, bestowed on us all to love and create, more than a sexual context for something that is definitely beyond the genitals to hear, feel and enjoy much longer than just one misappropriated label, can ever enforce? Sing, play your instruments and write many more songs people, God listens to us all!!!!
Also another thing!!! Amy Grant Got Divorced and went and got remarried to Vince Gill a couple years ago. Shouldnt the christian music industry be banning her? man i dont like when we blow it all this isnt loving…..
This doesn’t matter. What matters is… did you see it coming? I’ve been a Jennifer Knapp listener ever since I saw her live back when she opened for Jars of Clay in 2003. Whether it’s biblical or not, I’m not the one to say, but I can say that I HAD NO IDEA.
@S_K_O_T - Lol, that was what we like to call a “joke.” Laugh a little.
My Opinion – Fair warning, this post may seem a bit harsh, but it’s my opinion and I absolutely welcome constructive feedback…
From what I understand… (This is right before I got kicked out of Confirmation class at my Catholic church) Being gay is a sin… So if you’re representing Christianity (in this case, she is a Christian artist), you can’t be sinful (which involves being gay).
@splinter1591 - You were NOT born any other way than to worship God and live correctly. NO-ONE is “born” to be homo-sexual…it is a LIE to claim so! You should be ashamed to have gone homo-sexual, anyone who does so SHOULD feel mightily ashamed of it! Shame is a VERY good educator, that is all too often ignored these days. God gives us a sense of shame, for a very good reason!
@Galbsadi - SICK of all the “laughter”!
The thing is, you and I, and all men, are the “punchline” of this particular ‘joke’!
God, is mocked by this “joke”.
@PseudoEuphoric - Unless they are committing the foul acts, then NO-ONE “is” homo-sexual. Outside of the physical acts, there is NO inherent “lesbian” identity.
Being “imperfect” (only God is perfect) DOES NOT MEAN WALLOWING IN THE QUAGMIRE OF DEPRAVITY! We still must strive to get better!
The awful ‘lesbian’ scene actually REVOLVES around females/”women” (no-one being ‘lesbian’ is a woman!) being “perfect”!
People’s imperfections, and them striving to reach higher…has NOTHING in common with those indulging in an utterly depraved sin such as homo-sexuality.
@splinter1591 - God has CLEARLY EXPRESSED what are the greatest transgressions!
@Jeremy_Sheer - Well obviously if you’re not that domineering sort of person, that comment was not intended for you.
Being gay IS NOT a lifestyle choice. You’re born with it.
I grew up in a religious, traditional family and I get more pleasure from dating girls than guys. Please get that out of your heads right now.It may be classed as sin, but isn’t it time to put reason alongside faith for once? It’s getting bloody ridiculous.Blind faith drives me nuts.
@NaitoOfNarnia - You’re mostly RIGHT on it! And God bless you for it. However, there can be NO quarter granted to sins of this gravity, people must not grant tacit approval, and therefore licence to this behaviour. God IS ever calling, reaching, to sinners, yes…however, people MUST listen, and be encouraged to listen…people MUST stop behaviour such as this, or else blessings WILL finish. There is only a finite time on earth for each of us…and time, and responsibility, are of the essence.
Art and Love is beautiful.
Lets leave it at that.
I’m sure God wouldn’t disagree about that, if your oh-so-perfect pie in the sky had any sense.
Beauty is within the MIND of the beholder… not a story book.
If you find something or someone beautiful, it should not be a sin.
@S_K_O_T - Gimme a break. Get the dildo out of your @$$ already, seriously.
To say that “men are the punchline of this joke” is no different than to judge on skin color or food preference, IMO. I made a joke about the subject that was meant to be lighthearted, not a statement as you seem to be wanting to make. Quite to the contrary, I believe that people who make “statements” such as yours are ridiculous. What you are suggesting is oppression, plain and simple, and I cannot tolerate it.
If you want to talk about “God,” then learn to love as is written in the “Bible” to which you are likely referring.
@BethBreeze - No, ‘you’ are NOT!
People are NOT “born gay”! That is an outright LIE!
This vanity and vulgarity, IS a choice, a bad choice!
Your vain, self-involved pleasure (dating girls, what a quaint way to put what you’re doing!), your “getting pleasure” from “dating girls” (how many?!) is NOT the be-all and end-all!
What you’re doing is an insult to your family, and to so much else, and to so many more.
Both Faith AND Reason stand heavily and totally AGAINST homo-sexuality!
What do people think that reason will somehow “allow” the pursuit of homo-sexuality?
There is NO good reason for homo-sexuality…and Reason conclusively stands against it!
What IS getting bloody ridiculous (to say the very least) is the amount of girls that have gone ‘lesbian’ in the last few years.
This blinkered, biased, inverted, BLIND obsession with the same gender is driving the rest of us NUTS! Also, to say the very least!
True Faith, is NOT blind! Faith sees for miles, Faith sees the whole picture, Faith sees into eternity!
@NVPhotography - That’s fine.
The Qur’aan says that homosexuality is a sin. It tells the story of the nation of Lot, as well.
It doesn’t say anything about being a lesbian singer, though.
@S_K_O_T - Suck my lesbian tits, man.
You’re referencing has no solid, factual basis behind it.
What about the Catholic Priests screwing little boys and abusing them. It’s all from the same book.
If you don’t like it, quit preaching and put up and shut up.
@Galbsadi - Those going ‘lesbian’ judge us…you, me, and every other man…on our gender…negatively, cruelly, callously, and completely wrongly!
This ‘subject’ is NOT light-hearted! It is HEAVY hearted!
For you to think this is “lighthearted”, or worthy of mirth, shows the sorry state you’ve been lulled into.
People, proper people, good men and good women…are being OPPRESSED by the callous spread of either form of homo-sexuality today! Which is RUTHLESSLY enforced as it is maliciously pursued!
You cannot ‘tolerate’ me TELLING THE TRUTH? Speaking up against the Satanic oppression wrought upon humanity now through homo-sexuality, liberalism, money, and political-correctness?
You don’t have to ‘tolerate’ me, or what I’m saying! I’m good, and what I’m saying is RIGHT! Tolerance, can only ever be of a bad thing…this, is what is aggressively demanded of people in regards homo-sexuality! Which is a very bad thing, and utterly intolerable!
Where, praytell, are those who callously only “love” their own gender learning that from? Tell me what you think, and then i’ll tell you the real answer.
Oh, you think The Bible, and other Holy Books, merely calls for an ever meek form of “love” right? Wrong. Real Love, as is spoken of, and called for, by The Bible, IS real love…and real love means TELLING people when they’re doing wrong!
Hey, at least i’m HAPPY without having to quote in such fanatical ways.
You’re obviously NOT – hence your defence mechanism.
You actually make the majority of people on here laugh.
@S_K_O_T - Those who think they are RIGHT about such ridiculous things are the vainest of us all. Force feeding us does not prove your intelligence, it makes you out to be an idiot.
@BethBreeze - Your tits, your breasts, AREN’T ‘lesbian’! They are meant to be enjoyed by a good man…and one day, to feed children!
They’re not mere playthings for you and God know’s how many other girls!
What “solid referencing”, or “factual basis”, does ‘lesbianism’ have??????
What “solid referencing” or “factual basis” does vain girls only having ‘sex’ with other equally as vain girls have?????
There is NO reference that can make ‘lesbianism’ seem “okay”…there is NO factual basis, NO sound basis at all, to ‘lesbianism’!
Woman and Man…now THAT is the sound basis! The SOUNDEST basis! With THE most solid referencing!
Catholic priests screwing little boys? yes, that is ABHORRENT! Absolutely ABHORRENT! Homo-sexual, too!
Their wicked sins does NOT absolve YOU of YOURS!
You’re in the wrong. I will NOT “put up”, and I will NOT shut up!
@BethBreeze - YOU, and the hordes of other girls gone ‘lesbian’, think that what you are doing is “right”, that it is “right” for girls to only have ‘sex’ with other girls!
Think so, and think, wrongly.
I KNOW that I’m right!
Woman and Man, as God meant for us, that IS right, and I am RIGHT to speak up for it!
People are continually being FORCE-FED homo-sexuality…particularly ‘lesbianism’…today. That does not, and CANNOT, make it right!
Making me out to be an idiot, does not MAKE me an idiot.
I am intelligent, and any intelligent person (and even most unintelligent people) know that homo-sexuality is WRONG!
i can’t believe that this is even a question. the bible speaks clearly about homosexuality. being a christian means that you follow christ’s teachings.. maybe homosexuals can be religious, but they cannot be right with god if they are blatantly disobeying him. also, i am incredibly disappointed to see that so many people think that being a “good person” makes someone a christian. it’s way more than that. and it’s way more than believing in god or picking and choosing some of the rules to live by.
i am fine with homosexuals doing their thing. however, there are some things that shouldn’t be perverted, christianity is one of them. and in the christian world, homosexuality is a perversion.
AND christianity isn’t about being open minded, it’s about having an open heart. there are rules that must be followed.. but, having an open heart provides forgiveness and compassion when the rules are broken. god has an open heart. he loves everyone, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a standard.
i think what this rev. said is poor representation of what God really stands for… telling lies is a sin.. lust is a sin.. i’m positive this rev. cannot say that he does not sin.. following his logic, the church should also reject his sermons
Jesus came to love sinners
@S_K_O_T - I disagree. I have friends who are lesbian, and they’re just as nice as anybody else I know…they just experience attraction different from other women. (Specifically, they experience attraction the same way that I do…that’s not a horrible thing.)
The subject of somebody’s sexual orientation is not a major concern of mine, and so, to me, it IS light-hearted. What is heavy-hearted is people who try to ram a book that says otherwise down everybody’s throat because they’re a little bit different. The same book that says to do this also says to give everything you own to the poor, never shave again, etc., so if you believe in it so strongly, then lead by the example written in it, and take the plank out of your own eye so that you can see the speck in another’s. (Note: The very fact that you are here responding to this implies that you have a device capable of accessing the internet, and as such have yet to give everything you own to the poor, which is just one example. So, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. If you’re not perfect [hint: the book you're using says you're not], you don’t get to judge others as being any worse than you.)
As for those who are attracted sexually to only their own gender, that is different from the all-encompassing love the book YOU claim to follow suggests you should have. Until you can lead by example, what reason do I have to believe that anything you are saying is true? What makes your religion right? Maybe, if there is a Satan, your book is written by Satan under another name.
You are right, though, in that real love means telling people when they are doing things wrong. This is me telling you “you’re doing it wrong.”
@BethBreeze - LOL! XD
Call me a cynic, but it’s really interesting that this revelation came about just when she has a new album ready to release. Whether she claims it’s a publicity stunt or not… if it looks like a publicity stunt, and smells like a publicity stunt…
I’m not gonna touch the bible vs homosexuality nag…that horse is long dead and beating it further won’t change it.
@Jeremy_Sheer - @S_K_O_T -
I have ALWAYS been like that. It is not something I chose. And I have no problems with boys. I am not biased towards any sort of body or against any type of body. Your body does not dictate your soul.
I am not Christian, so I will NOT feel shame for not sharing ALL of your ideals for society.
I live a good life. I try to be kind, and live by a strong set of morals. I do my best to be always honest and true to myself. I love most everyone, and not sexually, rather I love people as human beings. I am willing to accept that there are other people out there with different sets of morals, and I am NOT tolerant of them, but instead I am accepting.
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I knew this would get devisive. I am much too cynical to jump in today, but it is a good subject, i.e., Religion driven spiritualiuty vs a Christlike demeanor.
that is the real life, trough I know little about that , but life is that.
@BeKa28 - Well said.
1 Cor 6:9
9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of
God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
This is what the bible says
Dom
Dear President Obama, I suggest: the United States to create “International Language Organization”
希望美国成为国际语言组织创始国
尊敬的奥巴马总统：
相对于科技经济的发展，全人类的语言的发展是缓慢的落后的。成立国际语言组织可以促进全人类的语言取得巨大的发展，解决语言制约人类发展的问题。希望美国给国际语言组织提供住所（像给联合国提供住所那样），提供必要的便利和帮助，成为国际语言组织的创始国。
美国成为国际语言组织的创始国，将会提高全人类对语言问题的重视，汇集各国的力量解决语言问题，使全人类的语言的发展得到巨大的推动力；将会提高全人类对语言的认识能力，促进全人类的语言科学获得巨大的发展；使全人类的解决语言问题的活动更加有效率、更加妥当、节约巨大的浪费、减少巨大的投入；改变全人类的语言的自然的盲目的发展的状况，形成科学的发展方式；使国际交往的语言不通问题得到妥当的解决；将会开辟全人类历史的新世纪：全人类拥有通用语言的新世纪。
美国成为国际语言组织的创始国，可以在世界上获得巨大的荣誉，增加国际交往和友谊，提高国际地位和国家实力，获得语言的优势，美国可以成为全世界的语言圣地，全世界的语言中心。
下面介绍国际语言组织的基本情况。
1，国际语言组织的宗旨：促进全世界的语言科学的发展，促进全人类的语言的进步。
2，国际语言组织的主要任务：（一），汇集全世界的每个国家的力量，汇集每个语言学者和语言机构的力量，开展语言研究；（二），创立最科学的语言理论；（三），以语言的进步促进全人类的进化；（四），解决国际交往语言不通问题。国际交往的语言不通是全人类的重大问题，全人类应该共同努力解决这个重大问题。国际语言组织汇集全世界的语言学家，借鉴全世界的各种语言的优点，创立最科学的、最容易学习的语言，做为国际交往的通用的语言，使全人类语言不通的问题得到解决。这个通用语言的推广是很容易的，A，这个通用语言与任何语言比较，具有巨大的优越性，这个通用语言的完美程度和容易学习的程度，令人感到惊讶，令人感到神奇，令人十分感兴趣，一般的人，只需要一个月的时间的轻松的学习，就能够进行日常会话，这个通用语言本身能够产生出巨大的传播力；B，国际语言组织具有巨大的推广力，能够做到最好的推广。大约推广5年，这个通用语言将会在国际交往中普及，解决国际交往的语言不通问题。大约推广10年，这个通用语言能够成为各国的第二母语，在全世界各地，随处可见这个通用的语言，从此以后，全世界的每个人在出生后，就在生活中见到自己的母语和这个通用语言（第二母语），只需要在儿童时期，在生活中领会，象学习母语一样，掌握这个通用语言，不需要专门的学习。未来的世界的语言的局面是这样的，在国际交往中，全世界使用这个通用语言，不需要学习各种外语；在各国的内部，使用自己国家的语言。有了这个通用语言，能够增加各国间的理解，交往，友谊，和平更加有保障，发展更加有希望，生活更加美好。
3，国际语言组织的组织方式：实行国家会员制，全世界的任何国家都有权利和义务成为会员，叫做会员国；国际语言组织邀请全世界的所有的语言学家、语言爱好者、语言团体，参加语言研究；国际语言组织的经费由会员国承担。
4，国际语言组织的机构：会员国大会；理事会；常务理事会；主席；秘书处；学术部门；会员国部门；外交部门；保护民族语言委员会；终身名誉主席联谊会（在终身名誉主席的数量较多的情况下，设立这个部门）。学术部门的下属机构：语言科学院；世界通用文字研究中心；世界通用语法研究中心；世界通用标点符号研究中心；世界通用词汇研究中心；世界语言大学；语言基金会；语言进步奖；世界语言论坛。
5，国际语言组织的主要特征：在国家之间建立的组织，以会员国的力量进行维护的组织，供全世界参与的组织，专门从事推动语言进步的活动，不从事其他的活动。
6，国际语言组织的地位：国际语言组织的地位由会员国之间的约定确定，不能在任何国家的内部注册确定。国际语言组织与任何国家的关系都是外交关系。国际语言组织的地位决定了它的活动是国际性的，世界性的，不属于任何国家的内政管辖。国际语言组织是按照创始人的想法创立的，不是按照创始国的法律创立的。
7，国际语言组织的住所：国际语言组织的地位决定了国际语言组织的住所是国际性的，不能由个人或团体购买提供，应该由一个主权国家提供，象美国给联合国提供住所一样；住所设立在一个国家内，但是，不受这个国家的管辖。世界上出现一个国家给国际语言组织提供住所，标志着国际语言组织创立成功，成为完善的国际组织。
尊敬的奥巴马总统，全人类的语言进步在期待着，您通过美国的新闻媒体，向全世界宣布：美国接受创始人的请求，给国际语言组织提供住所，提供必要的便利和帮助。全人类的历史将记载美国人的这个伟大的声音，这个声音标志着美国已经成为国际语言组织的创始国，这个声音将会开辟全人类历史的新世纪。
从2008年起，我已经向全世界呼吁了，任何国家可以抢先宣布给国际语言组织提供住所，成为创始国，在没有任何国家宣布成为创始国之前，希望美国抢先宣布成为创始国。
谢谢！
最好的问候！
国际语言组织创始人 gaigailun
my blog, http://gaigailun.xanga.com
希望任何人把这封信传递给奥巴马总统
Founder of the international language organizations sent a letter to President Obama
if it were agains the bible for a sinner to be a christian, there wouldn’t be any christians….@who_I_really_want_2_be - all people have sinful nature because of the first sin…don’t blame God for yurs….
“Sin is sin.” Exactly. So, should you not be a preacher if you have never sinned?
God is about love.
@BeKa28 - i agree. i really dont like homosexuality and stuff, btu i dont hate the people. i have alot of friends who are gay. whenever i tell people at church that, they give me weird looks, but hey i dont care. if anyone asks: yes i think that being gay is pretty nasty. but im not gonna freak out at people for it. ya know?
i dont believe people are born gay -_- hahaha
@deltadom - thats my main point in why i beleive people aren’t born gay. because god wouldnt say that, and then MAKE someone that way. because that would contradict his entire being. god doesnt do that. hahahaha xD
Missed this conversation.
Something I found interesting? The veracity of it I am not sure – though I would like to get a hold of his book!
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3606
Yale University historian John Boswell has discovered that the Catholic church has been marrying gays for centuries.
After a 12-year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives, Yale history professor Boswell discovered that a type of Christian homosexual “marriage” existed as late as the 18th century. Boswell found records of same-sex unions in church archives in the Vatican, St. Petersburg, Paris, Istanbul, and in Sinai, covering the 8th to the 18th centuries.
I’m a Christian, I go to church, I have been baptised, I work in diffrent areas throughout my church and I also Happen to be a lesbian. I don’t Believe that God loves me any less because of who I love. God created Love, the bible says so. God also created everyone of us. And he created everyone us of to be diffrent. I’m impressed at Jennifer Knapp and her strength to come out. I know I had a hard time wondering how the people in my life would take it, and my church didnt take it well, but for a famous Christian artist to do it, that takes strength and I believe God loves her even more for being true to herself instead of letting the fear of what others will say or think keep her from being the person God created her to be.
@SamBarger - Homosexuality has been observed in over 1,500 species of animals and is well-documented in at least 500 of them. Almost one-fourth of mated black swan pairs represent homosexual couples. The evidence that same-sex attraction is inherent in animal species, including humans, is fairly strong. However, of course, unless a specific gene is found to control hetero/homosexuality, there is no way to absolutely prove that people can be born gay.
As long as your logical premises rely on the foundation that God exists and is infallible, however, you can discard any and all evidence “because that would contradict his entire being. god doesn’t do that.” That’s the equivalent of saying, God can never be wrong, and if he is, well, that’s just not true. I think what most atheists would point out is, it is possible for observable facts to contradict the premise of God’s existence, or at least his existence as described by the Bible. You can say that your disbelief of inherent homosexuality is a rational conclusion, but the truth is that rationality and faith will always exhibit areas of strict conflict. It’s hard to be comfortable with that, which is why religious and non-religious people will always argue (let’s not even get into religious people arguing among themselves!), but most people will ultimately end up with the combination of faith and reason that is the most fulfilling for themselves.
The crux of the original question posed, however, seems to be what it means to be Christian. Are you Christian if you love Christ? Or are you only Christian if you follow the tenets of the Bible? From the comments posted by Christians, and from growing up in the church myself, I would say that it is necessary to live as prescribed by the Bible. It seems pretty clear that the Bible strictly forbids homosexuality.
So ultimately, if one grants that Christians control the definition of the term “Christianity”, homosexuals can’t legitimately call themselves Christian. What puzzles me is why they would want to. If you are homosexual and love Christ, if you are homosexual and value humility, if you are homosexual and want to do the work of God, it is still impossible to get around the problem that this same God considers something as trivial as who you are turned on by to be a reason to condemn you. If Jennifer Knapp wants to say, “I really want to call myself a Christian, even though that faith is totally against me just because I like girls,” that’s her problem.
Most Christians are sinners. I don’t think homosexuality is a sin. However, even for those who do, why would a christian living with that particular “sin” be any worse than a Christian fornicating in a heterosexual relationship? Humans seem to be ranking sin, as if they were God themselves.
@wesermol - I really like the way you put it into words. You know, you humbled me. Thank you very much. But we do agree on that part. Gaah, I hate admitting this, but I had lesbian tendencies back when I was in high school. I looked on girls more than I do in boys, and I actually said to myself that it’s understandable to be lesbian (because sometimes, there are things about a woman that only a woman can ever know. LOL). But because I was a Christian first before I discovered this, well, I never really acted upon my desires (even if I wanted it sooo badly, and the other girls seems to have no problem acting on the sin). Now that I’m 20, I must say, I’ve come a long way. I’m still single (though I dunno why), but I’ve corrected my desires. And now that I’ve been from both worlds, I can really confidently say that being gay is really more of a choice than being “born” gay. : Dunnoooooooo, that’s my opinioooooooon. That’s my experience, at least.
And LOL we forget that there is this entity called Satan who causes us to sin through deceptions, so we blame it all on the person instead of seeing it as another deception from him (inculcating unusual thoughts and desires in our hearts).
I love the sinner, but not the sin.
Yeah, I dunno why they say God is okay with homosexuality. Didn’t he burn Sodom (along with Gomorrah)? Out from that city came the word Sodomy, which basically means copulationwithamemberofthesamesex. Oh btw, Sodom was also famous for bestiality. Ew. Dunno why I said it, but I guess I just -have- to say it, HAHAA XD Gaah, I hope no one kills me for making little jokes about this coz this is turning out to be tooo serious. o.o I have a gay friends, but it doesn’t stop me from loving them.
well, we’re all sinners no matter what. cheating, stealing, lying ect are all sins too. not one sin is worse than another. and god accepts us all.
@deltadom - Well said. I don’t say it often coz it sounds overrrated, but I have nothing more to say after you wrote that.
Thanks for the verse.
@SamBarger - I like your light-heartedness! We see this subject on the same way! And LOL yeah being gay is not “in our genes” (HAHAHA sorry, but that is sooo funny!), and I don’t like homosexuality, but I have a lot of gay friends.
I was attracted to girls before back when I was in high school, but since I was a Christian first before I discovered such sinful desires, well, I didn’t act on my desires, even if I really DID want to act on it so badly. Now I’m 20, and hey, it’s not so bad! I’ve corrected my desires, though I’m still single (LOL) and I must say, I’ve come a long way. I’ve been to both worlds, so I can confidently say that being gay is NOT “in the genes” XD. It’s a sick validation of a sin. If I’m not a Christian, I’d probably be lesbian now, but I’m glad I am Christian, coz hey! It introduced heterosexuality to me and, ahaha, now I’m a very attractive girl.
Who has normal attraction on guys (though I still look on girls, but for aesthetic reasons only, and not for lust 
lalalalala)
That’s an interesting question since you asked if it is against the Bible rather than against God. But actually, I think the Bible looks upon lesbianism as being a silly game that some women play – different than the biblical position against gay men. No, I don’t have the references. The Bible serves as a god for those who don’t really have one, but I guess that’s irrelevant
Hate is a sin. I honestly have a difficult time with this; the Bible says that the physical act of man lying with man is a sin but it says NOTHING about emotions and romantic love toward another person of the same gender.
Moreover, many Christians who view homosexuality as sin consider homosexuality to be the sin of sins, counting it worse than murder, drunkenness and adultery.
I believe that love conquers all and in a world filled with hate we as Christians must take the time to embrace and understand all expressions of love rather than just pointing fingers and taking names.
I enjoy Jennifer Knapp’s music and I pray that her coming out will open an honest, patient, non-condemning dialogue about this in the Church in an effort to prevent pain and heal hurt.
you don’t have to be christian/non-christian to realize the obviousness of this question.
Jennifer Knapp was a contemporary-christian-music artist, meaning she catered to mostly and targeted mainstream christian music listeners. Homosexuality is considered a sin in most mainstream christian groups. Naturally, Jennifer Knapp would be viewed negatively after coming out of the closet.
Whether you’re a christian or not, or whether you agree homosexuality is a sin or not is completely IRRELEVENT. The chain of events that followed Jennifer Knapp confessing to being a lesbian should not be a total surprise to anyone.
@nylondare (first post)-You go girl! speach the truth!
I’m an athiest, so I don’t give a shit what an archaic tome from 2000 yrs ago says. And even if I did, it’s not my place (or anyone else’s) to judge what God would or wouldn’t do. If it is a sin, that’s between God & the homosexuals and nobody else.
The world would be a lot better off if people learned to mind their own fucking business.
I don’t think it’s against the Bible to be both Christian and lesbian. One can be a Christian, but don’t have to take the Bible literally. A Christian lives for love, after all.
I think maybe you post this article is completely in a moot point.So just take some time to dress yourself! http://www.hervedressshop.com
it depends on whether or not a christian follows the bible strictly enough to believe homosexuality is inherently wrong.
for those who believe it is wrong, that still does not mean they hate gay people or refuse to accept them. but, a christian music artist is a representative for their beliefs. obviously they won’t be perfect. they all sin. but, it’s different if one of them openly embraces a sin and refuses to attempt to separate themselves from it. that would be like a band calling themselves vegan, but eating chicken nuggets on the road and thinking they’re doing nothing wrong. i’m certain the vegans would reject that band as a part of who they are. so, why is it so much more wrong for christians to do it? i’m not saying it would be right to hate her for it. but, as far as their beliefs go, she is not being a good representative for them because she is embracing sin, and thus should be rejected from that status.
on the other hand, some people interpret the bible much more loosely. they may not think the verses against homosexuality were from god, but rather the work of men from a different time.
personally, i think she could do okay doing secular music from now on,
especially after all the publicity she’s gotten from all this. but, that’s her call.
@Losers_Advocate - oh come on. do you really know of anybody who thinks homosexuality is worse than murder?
@warweasel - i believe it was her who announced to the people that she was homosexual. you can’t really yell at people to “mind their own fucking business” when others are throwing their business right on the peoples’ plates.
It isn’t a sin to be a christian artist and a lesbian. but the bible does state that its a sin to be a homosexual.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - I suppose one could argue the truth in that statement. But that wasn’t the point. The point was If it is a sin, that’s between God & the homosexuals and nobody else. People spend waaaay too much time worrying about what others are doing and not concerning themselves with their own business.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - Oh… and I didn’t yell at people to mind their own business. Just suggested the world would be better of if they did.
Who cares what the bible says, it is rubbish unless you really believe in 900 year old guys and talking serpants
“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment..” Matthew 5:21
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” – Matthew 5:27
That kind of ruins the whole “It’s okay to have the urge but wrong to act upon it.” now doesn’t it?
“If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life fro me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?” – Matthew 16:24
There is also Romans 1:24-32, but nobody should forget that it followed by Romans 2:1 – “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance?”
And in verse 11 – “For God does not show favoritism”.
1 Corinthians 5 talks about expelling the immoral from the church – 9 – “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. ‘Expel the wicked man from among you’”
The point here is that everyone is on a level playing field – we are ALL sinners. ALL have done wrong at least once in our lives – Christian or no Christian. The verses in Matthew are not trying to put rules upon anybody (if anybody hated religion, it was Jesus) or hoops to jump through, but simply saying that if something is going to keep you from entering heaven, get rid of it at all costs. If something keeps you from God – get rid of it because it’s not worth it.
But wait, if all have sinned – we’re all condemned. That’s why Jesus came – to redeem and save us all. Since we’re not robots, we can choose to accept it or reject it. Accepting it means acknowledging to God that you can’t do it on your own. That you don’t know how to live and He does. Not giving your life over to a set of “rules” but your heart. However, if you accept His love and instruction, yet live as if you still reject it – doing as you would care to do just because you “feel” it’s okay – is a direct assault on the Mercy and the Sacrifice made for you. You’re willingly crapping all over the thing that saved you – regardless of what the hypocritical Christians say (and they too, forget that they will be held accountable to God for what
they do as well) or what the non-Christians say.
God is love. The message of Christianity is love. Maybe if there were more love shown by Christians, even in “disciplinary action”, more people would truly see God for who He is, rather than the sinful people who attempt (and fail) at representing Him accurately.
You’re in the same boat – and it’s sinking.
I cannot believe that people who call themselves
“Christian” are excluding and insulting homosexuals. Exclusion,
intolerance and arrogance are the most UNCHRISTIAN attributes I can
think of.How fucking arrogant and backwards are some Christians
that they think they can judge somebody on such a private matter??
How
can you preach against LOVE? How can you judge and hate someone
because he or she LOVES somebody – a man or a woman if both are
“God’s creation”? You know LOVE is the stuff that Jesus talked about
….
How is it your fucking business anyway what someboy does in his
or her bedroom?
If I am sure of anything … it is that all
these narrow-minded “Christians” will be the last ones to be “saved” if
someone wants to save them at all. I am
sorry that I am being so harsh … it just makes me mad. There are so
many sick Christians out there that cannot deal with their past, their
identity and life in general. So they try to exclude and hate in order
to feel special and to feel that they belong to an exclusive group
(cause they never learned from their parents what LOVE meant) not
noticing that they are doing the opposite of being Christian. ARGH!
I know one thing, it’s against the Bible to judge people and cast people out like the church is doing!
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@S_K_O_T - I agree that the best time to stop is now, but that doesn’t always happen. I am not suggesting any sort of approval, but rather that we recognize that God does allow for time. And absolutely, it’s important for them to listen, but some won’t listen right away. All we can do is continue to pray for them and offer them such encouragement until they do. In short, we must be patient. Again, that is NOT a license for them to continue sinning, just an allowance and recognition that God, Himself, allows for time in order for their heart to change.
Why would God make us all so different if he wanted us to be the same? I believe that being gay is a chemical thing of the brain and that people are gay from the time they are born. I don’t think it is something that can be “fixed” or changed. If that is the person that God made, then I think God would love them regardless. Also, there are many people in the world who are gay and Christian. I don’t think those are two words that cannot be associated together. Religion is a very personal thing and just because you are gay doesn’t mean you can’t have a strong love of Christ as well.
God hates sex. Period.
@olivia4567 - I would fully agree that those Christians who judge condemningly against homosexuals are wrong. But we need to be clear: homosexuality in the Bible is specifically wrong. This was NEVER part of God’s plan, and like all sin, the sin of homosexuality needs to viewed as such: WRONG. However, that said, in no way should we just oust people because they struggle. And yet, for those who refuse to repent (or even make the effort) and continue to live in sin are sometimes asked to leave, not because they are no wanted, but because their presence can actually cause harm to the rest of the congregation. This is ALSO Biblical. Again, this is not because they are not wanted, but if they don’t want to change their heart and behavior, then it’s like allowing poison into the body, and it will spread.
The question at hand isn’t whether or not God approves of people loving each other – of course He does! But it’s about whether or not they are obeying Him in all things…such as sexuality.
Quite simply sexuality is the gift God gave a man and woman in order to be able to FULLY express His image through the spiritual and physical act of being ONE together. Men and women have in them the image of God – men carry the masculine image and women the feminine image. Individually, they carry the true image of God, but only in part. They are no less made in God’s image but it is only coming together in holy sex (the way God meant it to be within the protective realm of marriage) that the FULL image of God is realized. When a man has sex with a man or a woman with a woman, it is perverting the image of God. When God said He made us in HIS image, by any of us practicing sexual unity through homosexuality is like saying God is something OTHER than what He is. A man with a man excludes the beauty of God as found in women. And a woman with a woman excludes the power and strength of God as found in men.
That is why this isn’t an issue of love, but of obedience. Are we willing to obey God and discover His powerful gift of sex through a man and woman coming together in marriage? I sure hope so. And there’s so much more the glorious mystery of a man and woman in loving, sexual unity that I’d have to write a book about it.
BUT! Someone already did. If you want to understand more on this, I recommend the book, “Sacred Sex”, by Tim Allan Gardner.
@Gentlemen_DontAsk_Questions - Read the book “Sacred Sex” by Tim Allan Gardner, and you’ll find out quite DIFFERENTLY that God very much loves His creation of sex for us.
@SKANLYN - Interesting, please explain.
The bible is written by man and has changed in it’s translation and meaning every time a different generation has rewritten it. God loves all of his children wheather they are gay or straight.
To preface this, I am a Christian, and I believe the Bible to be divinely inspired. I am NOT impressed with the way the church has moved homosexuality to the forefront of its agenda. If Jesus were walking this earth today, first he’d cry and he might condemn us for our hatefulness. Jesus was all about love.
“‘For a person to try and combine [being gay and being a Christian music
artist] is not biblically correct, and I would hope that the church
would reject such music because it does not represent us,’ he said. ‘To
me, it doesn’t matter if you are openly gay or closeted gay, sin is
still sin.’”
Now as for that quote, it is SO problematic. Sin is sin… but no one is without sin. So following that logic, maybe there shouldn’t be any Christian artists, either.
Everybody “sins”, isnt the Christian God supposed to be a jealous God? And so therefore he wants all of humanity to believe in him and follow him, so therefore he would want homosexuals to believe in him also.
Anyway, I say good on her.
I am a Christian. And to me, it is not wrong. Christians who reject anyone… ANYONE! is not a real Christian. I believe that the love of God is not intended for this.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - are you absolutely insane?There is no such THING as a “gay agenda”.Yes,there are extremely radical homosexuals who go to great lengths to get their point across and try to “force their lifestyles down the throat of the American norm” but that’s not the vast majprity of homosexuals.I’m a born-again Christain (once wiccan) AND a “practicing lesbian”(wtf,such a stupid term) and I know God loves me.He made me in his image (God LOVES everyone.Geddit?)And since he can make NO MISTAKES,then I know he didn’t make a mistake on me.Homosexuality isn’t a choice.It’s something you discover in your heart.God wouldn’t fill your heart with something that isn’t supposed to be there.
The most PROFOUND thing and TRUTH of it all, is that it really DOESN”T MATTER WHAT THE CHURCH ACCEPTS< APPROVES OF or NOT.
Religion is actually an individual thing and truth comes from within.
Beware of being critical and judgmental of the sins and failures of others. If you insist on taking the bible literally, then that very behavior is the Devil convincing you that you are OKAY, and taking the focus off of YOUR own soul.
Remember “he who is without sin”…. Why don’t you pray for your own faith and understanding as to why God is allowing things to be as they are and why it is so hard for you to understand and have a Peace that Passes understanding, which I believe is the true meaning of faith.
Peace.
The act, not the orientation is legislated. Nevermind the sin of the heart.
Also, this is from Judaism 101 – “The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is “merely licentiousness.” There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a “practice of Egypt” and because it constituted rebelliousness.”
Sin is in behavior and intention. If the artist has innocent intentions and behaves in a clean behavior that she feels send glory to God and puts his message of love and forgiveness across then who am I to judge? Can I honestly say I do the same thing?
@RevolutionSilver - are you absolutely insane?There is no such THING as a “gay agenda”.
That there is a gay agenda is completely obvious. That agenda includes making critics of gay rights guilty of hate speech. Calling me “insane” is part of that process. Gay bashing is criticized, but you think nothing of calling me insane for expressing my mainstream opinion.
I’m a born-again Christain (once wiccan) AND a “practicing lesbian”(wtf,such a stupid term) and I know God loves me.
All extra-marital sexual relationships are sinful. You can’t be a Christian and openly advocate a sinful lifestyle that includes extra-marital sexual relationships. So your assertion that you are a Christian is just you lying to yourself.
You are right that God loves you. You are right that God does not make mistakes. That includes all the people who are born with birth defects, mental disorders and other maladies.
The norm in the universe is male-female complimentarity. Homosexuality is a grave disorder and your attempt to make that disorder normal is a lie. Perpetrating that lie IS the gay agenda as you have so aptly demonstrated.
@splinter1591 - thats great. thanks for sharing your opinion and shoving it down my throat enjoy your choice. God is a loving God he doesnt curse people to be gays or lesbians….you DID not pop out of the womb saying “i am going to love the same sex” if he did everyone would be gay you moron. im done…
Will christianity as a whole ever grow up enough to overcome the “because I said so” reasoning of the bible?
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - I love that you said this i love you!!! you hear me?
!!! excellent point
@FearlessMonstrosity - if you read my comment posts moron i doont base everything off the bible quit stereotyopeing not everyone who is christain isnt tailored to your suiting
@Unstoppable_Inner_Strength - yes (to your response)
There is no contradiction. God made her that way. I’m glad she had the balls to come out of the closet.
@Jeremy_Sheer - I wasn’t talking to you, so before you debase yourself further in my sight by hurling undeserved insults, shut the fuck up.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - I beg your pardon,A DISORDER?Real disorders are schizophrenia and nymphomania and insomnia.Not homosexuality.And if Christians want so desperately to change homosexuals from their “lifestyles of sin” then why do you push them away?Do you how much energy most Christians put into hating everything that’s against the bible?If theyre so devout about it they should follow it to a T.Meaning you can’t trim your beard, or eat marshmallows,and it’s absolutely ok to be able to beat your wife or stone someone to death and other such trivial things that EVERYBODY does now.Should they go to hell too?Or are you just picking and choosing from the Bible what is favorable to YOU?God supposedly told people what to write in the bible.How do any of us know that,with their own biased feelings and prejudices,humans didn’t rewrite the Bible to their liking,twisting certain parts of it as they see fit?None of us know this,so it shouldn’t be within us to judge and hate what we don’t know.
I’m a lesbian…and God and I have a difficult relationship, mainly because of the church as an institution. So, maybe the reason gays and lesbians have a hard time loving Christ is because Christians aren’t very Christ like when it comes to acceptance.
I’m a lesbian…and God and I have a difficult relationship, mainly because of the church as an institution. So, maybe the reason gays and lesbians have a hard time loving Christ is because Christians aren’t very Christ like when it comes to acceptance.
Ugh!
@Jeremy_Sheer - It is my choice to not be ashamed of how I’m born. I’m sorry I offend you. My choice to not be ashamed ISN’T shoving it down ANYONES throat. It is merely accepting myself as I am. And I am NOT sorry that I am comfortable with myself.
People ARE born with different minds and different bodies. And being gay or bisexual is perfectly natural. It IS found in nature.
It IS against the Bible to be homosexual and a Christian. How can you justify that? Paul I believe said that homosexuals (and others) will not inherit the kingdom of God. I will look this verse up later and post it if you would like. And God would not make man and women to be together than change His mind and say, “It’s okay for you to be gay”. He still loves them. No doubt. But it displeases Him because it is NOT what he intended.
I myself do not hate homosexuals even though I am a Christian. I just don’t like what they are doing. It was their choice and my faith won’t change that. All I can do is pray for them. It’s an old wives tale that Christians hate homosexuals. Not so with alot of them. But just because I realize some people are that way doesn’t mean I think it’s OK or condone it.
@haloed - So. If you’re an animal, can I hunt you, butcher you, and barbeque you at my next picnic? And how do you know what God feels? Well, all I have to say to you is if you believe there’s no God, you’d better hope you’re right. But, you ARE entitled to your opinions, and obviously nothing I say to you is going to change your closed mind.
I’m sorry. =(
@Jeremy_Sheer -there is no curse involved in loving everyone, loving men, or loving women. Love is NEVER a curse. The only curse that I endure is the one that people put on me. The judging, the bashing, the hate speech, THAT is a curse. It is YOUR curse to be so closed minded, and *I* am the one who suffers for it.
@splinter1591 - ”It is my choice to not be ashamed of how I’m born.” God did not MAKE YOU that way!!! He doesnt make mistakes!!!! SIN does we made the mistake and until he Returns we have to live with it…..You Where not born Gay…….God did not have Adam look at eve and be turned off. If you arent comfortable with it then maybe you should reconsider……….gay and lesbian is a disorder that doesnt mean i hate gays or lebos it means that i am called to love them like God does. regardless of your choice its not psychological birth defect go to school and do a research papaer on psychology. theres no medicine for it…….stop blaming it on “oh this is just the way i am” too bad……
the only person who can help you is yourself and loved ones i will pray for you that you stop blaming it on your birth defect cause it isnt ask a professional psychologist it isnt!
@splinter1591 - im not being closed minded…..i think if you look at every comment i wrote, i’m pretty opened minded. Ugh why am I wasteing my time with you?
it’s really simple actually. we are all born into this world with sin. so all of us are capable of homosexuality. some more prone than others. everyone has something they struggle with, some with anger, some with lust. there’s a difference between struggling with a sin and being a christian vs accepting a sin,continuing in it and being a christian. it’s like saying you’re a recovering alcoholic while having two 40′s taped to your hands.
the clear way of understand why Christians believe homosexuality is wrong because it goes against God’s order of things. How he set up male-female relationships to be complimentary to one another. He clearly created man and woman, to procreate and to live together. Now if you go outside of that then you’re going outside of the order He has set. That makes it wrong….if you love God and respect His authority. But too often we try to fit God into our own world and make Him do what we want, shaping our views of Christianity around our own experiences instead of truly sumbitting to what His word says. It’s really a matter of respecting authority and who is really first in your life, YOU or God.
It’s like playing basketball, if you step out of bounds, you are out. You can choose to not listen to the referee and keep playing, telling yourself and your team that the game is still on and the ball is in motion. But in the order of a professional basketball game, you are wrong.
I end this to say, i love people who have homosexual tendencies. I just don’t support what they do at all. i would die for any one of them if they think i am a bible thumping fundamentalist. At the end of the day, i dont care if you hate me. Im just doing what i can to show you my faith through my actions and words.
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@BeKa28 - Well said.
@RevolutionSilver - The Catholic Church is responsible for compiling the the original Bible. Here is what the Catholic Church teaches on homosexuality:
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Surely you disagree with these teachings because you are not Christian. But you must admit that they are reasonable and totally devoid of hate.
I believe that it is God’s job to judge her as a gay Christian, not Rev. Foster or anyone else. I personally would listen to her music more now because she is a believeable person who struggles with being perfect instead of a “perfect” manufactured product of a music company.
Being gay is a sin but sin is sin every sin is created equal i say why not stop focasing on what she did wrong and focas that we are he christain family and just give her encouragment that were there for her. to point your finger at her when you have your faults to. she may be a christain aritst but she is still a person and you know i will still listen to her music she is very talented
love is love
@seriously_meredith - i agree with you
I don’t disagree with those teachings because Im not a Christian.Im very much a Christian.Who are you to tell me what my religion is?I know who I am in my heart.Yes,those teachings ARE devoid of hate,but what of the people that practice those teachings?Many innocent teenagers,adults and even children as young as 4 or 5 years old are killed,beaten,raped,emotionally scarred and many other horrible things because of these exact teachings and the people who live by them.Please do your research.You’ll see a vast majority of people die because God made US! in his image but,becauseChristians as individuals see it as wrong,decide they want us to die.Take a look at the Westboro Baptist Church.They have to be,without a doubt,the worst examples of “christians” i have EVER seen in my 18 years of life.Recruiting their children to do their dirty work.It’s digusting.
@RevolutionSilver - but someone elses actions do not make what you are a a christain ….christaianity is a relationship not a religionand thous people will get theres in the end. but dont let thous people make your decison ith the lord cause all in all they are not the lord. and it is terrable what happens to people but we all make are own choices it sucks but when someone gets hurt do you not think the lord crys with them? he does it hurts him just as much to see us hurt each other just as much as it hurt for Jesus to see his friends and people he saved yell at him as he was crusified. so dont allow stupid people to show you who the lord is
Homosexuality is considered as much as a sin as any other. Sin is sin, no matter how big or small. Homosexuals should not be hated for who they are, for we are all just human, imperfect beings prone to sin and deserve to be in hell, even preachers and pastors. We were born of sinful blood, therefore those who are imperfect have no right to criticize. Who is to say that they’ve never lied, cheated or lusted? God is a forgiving God, he will not condemn us for it is not by what we have done that earns our place in heaven, it is by God’s grace. Christians who hate on homosexuals do not produce an accurate image on Christianity for Christianity is all about love, forgiveness and acceptance, trusting in God should only make us a better person, not worse.
The Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin.
@Orlando - Religion is actually an individual thing and truth comes from within.
You are an advocate relativism and exactly wrong about religion. Religion is all about community and how individuals are to order themselves to a community.
In relativism everyone can make up their own truth. The problem here is that if everyone can make up their own truth then there is no truth. Since no human being is better than another it stands to reason that the truth that an individual conjures up for herself is no better or no worse than any other.
Such thinking is obviously false. For a tyrant whose truth determines that it is good to mass murder 10,000,000 innocent people to implement his domestic policy has committed crimes against humanity.
Truth can only come from one source: God. Your way of thinking leads directly to societal chaos and crimes against humanity.
God only had plan A; His name was Adam with his wife Eve. Human beings formed plan B, along with help from the guy downstairs. God can only follow plan A or He will cease to be God. God created us in His image, created he, male and female.
Every day that passes is a step closer to the day Homosexuals will no longer be objectified for what they are..just like the jews and blacks, the world will one day wake the f*** up and get with the times.
I will sit back and enjoy the kicking and screaming of the people who will look like complete idiots as they try their hardest to fight it
@Jeremy_Sheer - Your right its NOT a defect
and it hasn’t been considered a disorder since the 80s. How far did YOU get in school to think that homosexuality is a disorder and or a choice. There is no medicine for it and that’s a good thing. Do you want medicine to stop being straight? No? Then why would I EVER want to be “cured.” Are you going to cure all naturally gay animals in nature?And please don’t go point to “science” and then “Adam and Eve”The bible is not science and is in no way reflective of science. Make up your mind, please.
“.gay and lesbian is a disorder that doesnt mean i hate gays or lebos it means that i am called to love them like God does. regardless of your choice its not psychological birth defect go to school and do a research papaer on psychology. theres no medicine for it.”I’d like to applaud you here for contradicting yourself. Is it a disorder or a choice? Make up your mind.
I have no interest in your Jesus, prayers, or your Christian heaven, so don’t pray for me. Pray for yourself to learn to accept people as they are. And notice I said ACCEPT not love.
@Jeremy_Sheer - You refuse to believe in something that is well documented in nature and over the course of human history. How is that not being closed minded.
@splinter1591 - leave me alone if i wanted a lecture i would go back to college. your not prove anything here and I don’t care about your senseless dribble leave me alone and BACK UP What you talk about… youve given me no PROOF just your opinion. now your really wasteing my times. Stop careing what i have to say so much. is this going to make you feel better? stop filling up my news feed with your garbage. I dont care about you or what you think
@splinter1591 - how dare you insult me and my beliefs quit talking to me like im an alien you fruit who belongs on ugly betty. You want to get personal I will get personal werido
@TheDarkestWhiteKnight - I have read through many responses written here but your’s is truly the only one that touched me. That was beautiful.
Yes, but music, art, dancing, flashy clothes, Judaism, and the color red are against the bible, too.
If you’re a homosexual, open or closet and you love God and Jesus nobody can tell you cannot be a Christian, who the heck are they to say a word against you? You’re not applicable to become Christian once you are acknowledged by all these random people as perfect in their eyes. I despise people telling other people what they can and can’t do. Christianity is personal, your relationship with God is personal and Church is for everyone, the purpose of Church is for those struggling, those confused, those lost. Who you date is nobody’s business but you and God. My only thing is the bible straight up says homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom of God in several places – most importantly the New Testament but I would say the last thing you should do is pack up and just leave church and your faith, have faith that God loves us despite our failings and if you’re Christian you must know that. He’s a God of miracles, I personally believe homosexuality is a sin once you act on it because the bible says it, again most importantly the New Testament says it, even Jesus makes reference to it but at the same I thank God I don’t have to personally deal with this.
Homosexuality is a lifestyle you choose- not something you are born with. You cannot be a Christian and also be a gay or lesbian. Yes, Yahweh loves you, but does not approve of or love your sin.
I will love you as a person and treat you with respect, but no, I do not approve of your choices and I will not support you in your sin.
@randomneuralfirings - agreed
@NaitoOfNarnia - i don’t know…but what about gay sex?
who the fuck is jennifer knappy head
First off, I’m gay. Second, I went to a Catholic school, a whole six months of my life in grade seven.
My teacher told our class that being gay was equal to murder. Uhh, she also had a mini-fit about the fact that the book said it was okay to ‘explore’ yourself. She told us we’d go to hell if we masturbated.
I don’t think it’s wrong, but to be honest, I don’t even believe in what the bible says.
@blackvelvetsky2 - I agree that the lifestyle is perhaps chosen, but being attracted to members of the same sex; that isn’t something you can just pick.
The only argument you could give towards God being okay with homosexual sex is to say that God has dismissed all sin through Christ. This however, is impossible. If you live in a sin, regardless of what it is, it’s impossible to repent and receive forgiveness because repent literally means to turn around and go the other direction after realizing it’s wrong or that God doesn’t like it. If it were true, Jesus would be unnecessary and every person, everywhere would be able to just go to heaven with no real commitment to God, Christ, or the disciplines of Christianity. Paul said that he beats his body into submission because it doesn’t line up with the Word of God and that even though he knows what he should do, he is rarely able to do it and instead does what is wrong. He doesn’t say, however, that he chooses to claim that sin as a lifestyle or as being acceptable by God.
The question of whether the feelings of sexual attraction, love of a same gender person, and Christianity are both very intimate and personal. Such things are very important, or God wouldn’t have specifically addressed this in both the Old and New Testament. No where, does God dismiss things such as Witch Craft/Sorcery, homosexuality, theft, murder, or using the Lord’s name in vain as no longer being sins now that we are under Christ. Instead it says “go and sin no more” because your sins have been forgiven. It doesn’t give you the liberty to just keep doing these actions because they make you feel good or gives you happiness. Christ, upon forgiving someone of something the Word of God said was unacceptable, to go and sin no more. So how can one claim to be able to live in a lifestyle of sexual behavior that is mentioned through out scripture as being an abomination to God and still believe that they are forgiven of that sin and in a good standing with the Savior who gave up his entire life so they could have the chance to choose to serve God, even as He did?
As a culture we seem to push the liberty aspect of Christianity, claiming freedom to eat meats sacrificed by false idols. Problem is that the reason they could eat the the meat, even though it was considered sinful, because they knew that it was something that had no power over them through Christ. Where as, if you choose to claim that the god of whatever sin is a power in your life and is something you are willing to openly embrace and let define your life, then it’s a spiritual contradiction. This divides your spiritual house into “serving two masters” which cannot be a healthy relationship or with God or lifestyle as a “house divided against itself cannot stand.”
There is no doubt that the Bible condemns homosexuality (male-male sex and female-female sex). However love and sex between men and between women is okay because the Bible’s condemnation does not apply today, just as its acceptance of slavery does not apply today. This is partly because our culture is very different from the culture of Bible times. It is also partly because love and sex between men and between women usually does not cause harm. See the “Gay and Christian” website (www.gaysandslaves.com) for more details.
@PseudoEuphoric - My God! It’s staggering how much, and how often, people ‘defending’ homo-sexuality apply things to entirely the wrong people…when what they say should, and does, come down with crushing weight on those whom they’re foolishly “supporting”!
It’s staggering!
Talk about projection!
Those pursuing vain, inverted, “SAME-sex” ‘lifestyles’ are utterly wrapped up in THEMSELVES!
If there’s a worse form of people being wrapped up in themselves than homo-sexuality then I do NOT want to hear about it!!!!
@ilovecristo - …yet you, like so many others, get very busy TELLING people that they CAN’T go against homo-sexuality!
@therantingprophet@revelife - Exactly!
@Jeremy_Sheer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
here is a list of animals that naturaly display gay, bisexual, and or lesbian tendencies.
Here is a list of mammalshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
If you want I’ll get you video clips as well. In fact there is one at the end
And you bother me because you are obviously un-educated about Gays, Bis, Lesbians, and Transgenders.
Oh and here is my most favorite and adorable gay couple everhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8081829.stmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMJU9RrNhQPENGUINS!! So cute! I love penguins!
I believe the practice of homosexuality is wrong, and it’s not okay. Christianity teaches love, unconditional love. Of the person. I hate the hell homosexuals go through, and I hate how they’re treated. But I’m not going to say the practice itself goes within Christian boundaries. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. Christianity is black and white, just like any other historical religion. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, no matter how changing and accepting the world becomes.
Is she really? Do you happen to have a reliable article where I could read about this? I had no idea she was a lesbian. Give me the info. I’m curious now. What songs was she known for? I can’t recall… I just knew I have heard some songs of her’s, and I liked a few.
Thanks,
~*Akarui Mitsukai*~
@BeKa28 - Very good answer.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - Well I’ll put it this way: I’ve never heard a sermon on how wrong it is to murder someone but I’ve heard several people preach on why homosexuality is the number one sin to avoid. I’ve heard “educated” people say that homosexuality was the cause of the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah (not sure if you’re familiar with the Bible and I haven’t studied it much myself but it was a city filled with sin and therefore destroyed) – not murder, not adultery, nor any of the other of the Ten Commandments. Homosexuality. It’s sad.
James Randi also came out of the closet…at the age of 81.
answering strictly the question posed by the blogger:
yes, it is going against the Bible to be a Christian artist and a lesbian. it’s a couple of paragraphs before or after stating that eating pork is a sin.
in my opinion:
I don’t agree with the Bible and I don’t know who this Jennifer Knapp girl is.
@Losers_Advocate - yeah. same experience here too. i think i’ve heard so many sermons on how homosexuality is the worst sin of all, that i just walk out. last time i went to church, it was exactly this sermon that made me never turn back to the church. it’s just getting ridiculous. yet, they have no problems with these pedophiles running around.
@ServentOfGod19 - thank you,sir.There should be more Christians like you.
Why are Christians so fixated on the homosexuality issue? The Bible hardly even cares; there are only a few verses that even vaguely wave their hand at it. Yet they’re more than happy to look the other way for a multitude of sins that get way more press, Bibically speaking.
As for the question: no. The Bible only says anything about men sleeping with male prostitutes, so lesbians are in the clear.
And, as for this girl: someone should give her my number. She’s hot.
@Losers_Advocate - well, a sermon about it being wrong to murder is like a lecture about fire being hot. it’s not something a preacher feels the need to make people aware of. i doubt it has anything to do with which sin they think is worse. it’s about which sin they think people are going to be more inclined to accept.
@OngishLyOngLee - are you sure you’ve heard sermons about how homosexuality is the worst sin of all? or did you just hear someone say homosexuality is a sin and project that in your mind to be something much larger?
@akarui_mitsukai - Yeah sis. She pretty much mentioned it on her blog site. Just look up Jennifer Knapp’s web site. But I think we need to support her as a fellow Christians and sister. This may have to be a personal matter that God talks to each of us individually about whether to support her music, but let’s definitely not shun her (not that I think you would).
@Raycol - @elvesdoitbetter - I think you miss the point. The ORIGINAL DESIGN was for a man and woman only. Women were to follow the leadership of the men (this is NOT to be confused with men demeaning women or women being inferior – that’s NOT Biblical even though the Bible DOES reference the general attitude that was prevalent within the cultures; so keep in mind that merely stating how things were is not stating that that was how things should be). So even though God did not always specifically mention the women, this is one such case where the supposed lack of mentioning women did not mean that the law did not also apply to women. Men and women are made in the image of God, each one having one aspect of God: the men represent God’s masculinity (ie: strength, power, leadership, protection) and the women have God’s femininity (ie: beauty, comfort, nurturing, teaching). When man and woman come together in holy sex, not only is it a beautiful moment of marital love, but also that of the FULL image of God. God is One, so when man with his masculinity and woman with her femininity join together in sex, they are, as the Bible says, “one flesh”. Even as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are individual (they can act independently but are still of the same nature and do not contradict each other) they are still One God. So it is that there is individually a man and a woman and yet they are “one flesh”.
When we understand what the Bible DOES say and what God originally designed, it’s not hard to see that homosexuality is just as wrong for women as it is for men. Either way, it is a distortion of the image of God, whom we were created to reflect when He told us to be fruitful and multiply: basically, HAVE SEX!
Homosexuality ignores the other half of God’s full image and argues that “love” is what makes it okay. But to God, it is nothing but selfishness and disgusting and revolting distortion of who He really is…because we are made in HIS image.
@OngishLyOngLee - I recommend getting to know Jennifer Knapp as an artist and a person. Even now, I think she does have a lot to offer as she goes through this point in her life. It’s well worth learning about her if only to gain better understanding of what she is going through as a person. She IS a Christian who, quite simply, is presently struggling with the sin of homosexuality. Any sin is a contradiction to the life Jesus called us to live, but He also promised to never leave us when we honestly called upon Him to be our Lord, Friend, and Savior.
@PseudoEuphoric - @plastic_army_men - I agree with you ladies whole-heartedly.
@Gentlemen_DontAsk_Questions - What do you mean what about gay sex? Forgive me, I don’t understand what you’re referring to.
@therantingprophet@revelife - Well said!
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - the pastor preached it in church, on a Sunday morning, saying somewhere along the line of: “homosexuality is the biggest sin of all. it is worse than lying, cheating, murder. of all sins, God hates homosexuals the most. by committing this sin, you will be sent to the very bottom of the pit of hell.”
this particular sermon was during the California voting season, when the vote for/against Prop 8 was on the ballot. so obviously, the motivation was to get people to vote for it.
now think about this: what would make me angry enough to walk out? because i was listening to a sermon about loving and forgiving each other? or because it promoted hate and disgust towards a group of people, singled out as being the worst sinners of all sins?
in case you didn’t know the answer, it’s because the sermon promoted hate and disgust towards a group of people. (yeah, i’m pretty sure i don’t get angry when i hear positive messages.)
now, here’s some background: i’ve heard this sermon at least on three different occasions from different pastors. and i’m often irritated by it because 1) there are no (open or suspected) homosexuals in the church, 2) i rather hear a positive message, 3) although the Bible speaks against homosexuality, nowhere in it does it say that homosexuality is the worst sin of all sins. for me personally, torture and rape of children is the worst crime, the worst sin, the worst act to ever be done against humanity, yet the church speaks nothing of it because it’s not written in the Bible. 4) don’t you ever get tired of hearing the same sermons over and over again? because i do.
now, are you going to sit there and call me out for blowing things out of proportion? if you’re going to question my judgment, you better have a good reason to back it up because it looks quite foolish to be defending what you don’t know, if you weren’t there to hear it for yourself.
good for her. i’m bisexual, i’m not religious myself, but my uncle is. he’s gay, in a loving relationship (20 years now), and attends a gay christian church (yes, i said it, gay christian church). the pastor is a lesbian, heterosexuals attend also, it’s a church for everyone: open, loving, and accepting. i’ve really tried to understand the hatred or as most people like to put it “concern” around homosexuality. i try to respect everyone’s beliefs as much as possible, as i only want to express my opinion as well. but how is being homosexual wrong? other than the fact that, “the bible said so.” “they cannot procreate” “it’s disgusting” or, “homosexuality is a sin, the bible said so!”. i could say according to the bible, god loves everyone. but it’ll only be disputed with, “god hates sin, homosexuality is a sin.” why? why is it a sin? how is it so wrong? how is it harming you? affecting YOUR life personally? if the only reasoning you have is based off of what you’ve been told/conditioned to think, i don’t find it very convincing. i have not been told or have i seen or read not one valid reason as to why homosexuality is wrong. as far as i know and believe, there isn’t one. and i’m sure i’ll have people trying to tell me how it is wrong, and still not have a leg to stand on. the best one i’ve heard is, “it’s adam and eve, not adam and steve!”. if you are trying to have a serious debate, saying that completely defeats the purpose and you’ve been marked off as an invalid. because all you’ve just shown, is that you really do not have anything else to say, so you’ve resorted to plain stupidity and immaturity. so if you say it, just know it’s a given that you now have “dunce” written on your forehead. anywho…
@BeKa28 - i appreciate you expressing your point of view. even if we happen to disagree, you have been very polite in your delivery which is something i can’t say for most christians i have met (on this topic). but personally i think if the person is gay, and they decide to “act” on it and be with who they love, no matter the gender, i’d call that happiness instead of a perversion or sin. i feel pity for your friend and sad that something like that is thought to be “right”. people are who they are, they shouldn’t have to change to please someone else, especially if they have already found their happiness or are on the path to discovering it. this, of course, doesn’t apply to everyone. i wouldn’t say this of a murderer, etc. homosexuality should never ever be compared to something so heinous (not saying you have made these comparisons). homosexuality isn’t a sin, there isn’t anything wrong with it. and there isn’t anything wrong with being happy, even if that means being with your same sex lover. there should be support and acceptance towards something of this nature, genuine acceptance, support and love at that. my friend is christian, though she claims to be accepting of gays, she still considers it a sin and that it’s wrong. i just don’t get that either. i’m curious, have you come to these conclusions on your own, or were you taught this mentality and accepted it as it was given? all i have left to say is, if whereever or whenever it happens, i hope you see a fresher light in all of this.
anyway, back to the artist. i’m happy she came out. i really hope people don’t follow the word of rev. DL foster there, though i know there will be some. that’s not the sort of message he should be sending out to people, it feels very negative and ripe with ignorance.
it’d be nice for the day to come where sexual orientation wouldn’t even be an issue.
and one last thing before i go. @SKANLYN - thank you for your comment, you’ve given me another great example. people, this is another display of stupidity. it makes absolutely no sense to say lesbians are ok in your book because it’s “hot”, but gay men are not because it’s “ewwy” or whatever silly reason you come up with. this seems to be a common thing among people, and i wish it would stop. we’re running out of dunce caps.
cheers! <3
Who cares if one came out of the closet or not. This is called “free choice”. Who cares if someone is gay, lesbian, or heterosexual or for that matter green purple black or white. One is either a good person or not. color, sexual preferences have nothing to do with the time of day.
i realise i came in a bit late with my commenting, i just went through and read all of the comments. i’d love to give kudos individually to people, but i’m sleepy, so i’m going to sleep. but major-awesome-massive kudos to people? this debate may be “cliche” to some, but i still think it’s an interesting one nonetheless.
night! <3
Let me interpret this: her music was okay for the church while no one knew she was gay? What changed in her music retroactively?
@Thatslifekid - agreed.
anyone who sees no problem with being a christian & a homosexual simultaneously simply does not really know the Word of God, because it clearly forbids homosexuality. Anyone who has read those verses and continues to tell themselves that “It’s ok because God loves everybody, blah blah blah” is deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them. I mean, yes, God does love everyone, that’s why he sent his Son to die for all of us sinners. However, He also says that we have to put forth some effort if we want to be pleasing to him. Now if we want to be pleasing to someone, we have to first ask what THEY consider pleasing. It is foolish to think we can please God by doing what seems pleasing to us — that’s completely backwards. Therefore, my reason for saying homosexuality is wrong is that the Bible tells me it’s wrong, and if I want to be pleasing to Him, I’ll follow what he says, no questions asked. After all, my human reasoning cannot compete with God’s reasoning (Isaiah 55:9). (Might come back and add other verses later re: homosexuality)
@OngishLyOngLee - i wasn’t calling you out, just questioning you. the reason being that more often than not, that’s the case. this is one of those highly passionate subjects, so people get irrational about it. whether you’re one of those people, i’ll never know. even if you are, you wouldn’t admit it to me. but, now i can’t help but question your judgment, given that you’ve managed to come across numerous churches that apparently doesn’t use the bible in their teachings and just makes things up as they go. they can’t be that hard to avoid. i’ve managed to do it without even trying.
@faewood - do you really think people are serious when they say only lesbians are okay because it’s hot? that’s just a line people who don’t really care about the issue like to say as a joke.
@hevcoh - nothing changed about her music. but some people don’t want to support a musician who is living in a way they believe is wrong, regardless of musical content. just as i’m sure you wouldn’t support a band dedicated to the KKK, even if they made music that would otherwise be appealing to you.
@NaitoOfNarnia - I’m referring to sex of the homosexual nature
@nickysb2b - No, but sexual preference (so called) has to do with right and wrong. And, Biblically speaking, it’s wrong. This isn’t just a mere slip up like someone uttering a cuss word because they were angry for a moment or stubbed their toe. She is currently living indefinitely a sinful life with no immediate signs (as far as anyone on the outside can see) of turning away and giving this sin up in order to more fully obey and love Christ. This isn’t a matter of condemnation, but one of Biblical standards. It’s not that we’d turn her away and say, “SINNER!!!” But rather, if she refuses to turn away from such a serious sin, many Christians feel they cannot otherwise support her. This is actually mandated in the Bible. When someone who has shown continuous signs of a sinful habit and have been approached about it gently, firmly, and supportively and yet will not change, they are asked to leave the church. This is NOT a removal of their sin nor saying that they are no longer cared about or cannot receive help if they need it or are not allowed back in later when they show signs of repentance, it just means that “dirt” cannot be mixed with “water” (and sin, not the person, is the dirt).
The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin. If you are a Christian, you are to live your life according to the Bible. And if you do there is no way you can find a “loop hole” around it, or justify it. It homosexuality is a sin. I have nothing against homosexuals except they are living in sin. I know I will get a lot of hateful responses.but you asked I told.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - A sin is a sin. None is greater then the other. stating otherwise is not Biblical. There is only one thing the Bible says you can not be forgiven.
@NaitoOfNarnia - Thanks for your reply. I know some would say it is a sin…and so on, but thought it might be interesting to add a dimension into the conversation. The thought that I was trying to project was that it maybe better to accept differences and see the beauty and learn from one another to advance society, then to point out the differences and shame one for it. Tends to hold up advancement. During the mid to late 60′s we pushed for acceptance race, equal rights etc…and most of the lines that seperate each of us were broken.
I am not sure that anyone can live up to most of what is written… Thanks for your reply enjoy the conversation.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - of course i know it was for humorous purposes. i was just using that person’s comment as an example of that behaviour. some people do say those things and it isn’t a joke. i’ve had friends be that ridiculous and it wasn’t in a jokingly manner, they really believed this. that’s all i was trying to address, i should have clarified more, so i apologise. <3
@BeKa28 - Thank you for being a voice of reason. If you were going to hate homosexuals for committing sins, then you would hate everyone in the world, seeing as the Bible teaches that we are all sinners. It is no different than fornication or stealing.
That being said, I am not a Christian and therefore don’t have any moral opposition to gays or lesbians. There is more and more evidence all the time that it is biological and I don’t know how you can morally oppose biological traits (oh wait, Hitler). They have even found out that every kind of animal has homosexual members.
I guess she wants a part of the slice of heaven everyone else is promised, but I feel bad for her because there are long lines of hypocrites waiting to throw stones at her from their glass houses.
@PseudoEuphoric - Im trying to understand why God would give us free will to make decisions, but then still have a divine plan for us, which to me seems like our future is predestined.
@S_K_O_T - I was reading your replies to everyone on here and thought you were actually joking until I read your blog… Dude, get some help, please?
@Gentlemen_DontAsk_Questions - Right, I understand that. I just meant that I didn’t understand what you were originally diverging from as your question seemed to imply.
Basically, homosexual sex is wrong. Then entire lifestyle is wrong. It’s not wrong to feel tempted, to feel an inclination towards it. Even Jesus was tempted but that wasn’t a sin. It’s how we respond to temptation that is the issue. Sin, whatever form it takes, it a distortion of the Truth. If we hold that God designed the world – including humans – with His signature crafted into His work, then to present anything as truth when it is in direct contradiction to God’s original design is an insult to the Artist. It’s like taking a child’s crayon drawing and putting it next to the Mona Lisa and saying they’re the same, exact painting.
Sex isn’t just sex – some act that we do to have kids and/or because it feels good. Sex is an act given to us by God for us to enjoy, procreate, but most of all to bring about the full image of who He is. We can experience the NATURE of God’s oneness by being one with our spouse – a man with a woman and a woman with man.
Since we were made in God’s image, then to say that homosexuality is okay is to distort the picture that God’s design of sex was mean to recreated.
In short, sex is good. But the goodness of sex cannot be fully experienced unless it is one man with one woman, in the holy covenant of marriage, under God.
If it diverges from God’s plan, quite simply, it’s wrong.
@nickysb2b - That’s where a lot of people get confused and misguided about the issues.
You see, Noah’s three sons were actually of different skin tones. Their names actually reflected these facts. Never in the Bible, even, is there any mention of a person’s skin color being a matter of right or wrong. Obviously, no one can help that. So it was beyond insanity that anyone should make moral decisions based on skin color. The rights of black people, Asians, etc, were truly being unjustly denied.
Next is the matter of shame. Shame is a term to suggest that the problem is the person, personally. Not that the person has a problem, but that they ARE the embodiment of the problem. It’s been said this way: guilt says, “I DID something wrong,” while shame says, “I AM something wrong.” The problem is that too many people act with a shame-based mindset, either in delivery and/or in reception. We need to move to guilt in order that a conviction can be given. However, in Jesus, we don’t stop at conviction. Conviction is meant to be a motivator, not the final destination. If guilt is the final destination, it all too easily turns into shame. And shame is not God’s desire, for it is clear that Jesus died for us. He didn’t die for the problem, but rather to eradicate the problem.If we were the problem, we wouldn’t be around because we and the problem would have been one. But no, the problem and the the people are separate. Jesus valued us so much that He died so that we could be free from the problem. Thus, we could be free from the problem and the guilt would be removed and lies of shame-based thinking conquered.
Next is the matter of acceptance and beauty that you mentioned. There is the essence of God’s beauty in women. This is true. But it ignores the essence God’s strength as found in men when we accept two women together as being “okay” or “beautiful”. Quite simply, it’s weak beauty as it lacks the strength of a man. And two men together may come across as raw and strong, but it’s ugly, for it lacks the beauty of a woman.
We should accept the person, absolutely. For the sin (problem) and the person are not one and the same. But we must not also accept the sin WITH the person. This is done by humility, and by recognizing that God works with us individually and some will struggle more than others. This doesn’t mean we leave them alone with God to be dealt with, for nothing in the Bible suggests that. We are meant to be a community and to help each other to stay AWAY from sin. And through that support, we help strengthen each other through love, patience, encouragement, and discipline and correction.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - no. i’m not passionate about homosexuality. i’m just annoyed with people who are so passionately for or against it that they need to preach to the choir. i believe in equal rights for all, but parading one’s own sexual preferences or non-preferences is distracting from the real problems. trust me, the last thing i want to know is who or what you want to screw with and what you think about who and what i can screw with. there are bigger problems out there than screwing each other.
i’ve only gone to two different churches, but with different pastors who made those comments. one of the pastors was actually fired because he was so extreme on other issues which conflicted with every family who were members of the church. the other one, let’s just say there are less attendance from what i’ve last heard. i wasn’t lying when i said i’ve heard this sermon so much that i detest it. (it comes second to incest.) but i never said that all churches preached this kind of hostility or that all the pastors who i’ve heard sermons from preached this.
with regards to the blog and jennifer knapp’s situation, if christian leaders are to say that her music do not reflect their beliefs and they need to reject it, they are really shooting themselves in the foot. because, if her music is about loving and caring for one another, if her music is about thinking positive and making positive changes, they are basically denying it.
@pb49r -So girl on girl action is okay, but not
guys? Isn’t that rather narrow-minded?
Not narrow minded, just a fact. I see two sweaty, nasty, hairy dudes doing to stuff to each other and I want to eject my lunch. On the other hand, two hot chicks lovingly exploring each other’s femininity with probing fingers and flickering tongues is just beautiful man. You gotta admit it.
@haloed - @beautifullymindfull - Then let’s ask the question: is anything in the Bible reliable, including Christ’s death on the cross for our sins, if we would call the Bible “outdated” or “full of crap”? You would have to say that nothing is true, if you reject the course of treatment of the subject of “homosexual behaviors” from early Old Testament through New Testament teaching in 2 Corinthians 6.
@SKANLYN - So girl on girl action is okay, but not guys? Isn’t that rather narrow-minded?
I am not surprised that few wanted to actually defend the thought that it is wrong to engage in homosexual sex. It invites arrows-right? But, we must abide by what the Bible says in the moral area, for our own good, and the good of society. To claim to do sex my own way, but see myself as good in God’s eyes is not consistent. the Bible is consistent in calling that behavior wrong. I must lay my whole life down at God’s feet, not just my eternal destination. Then, I can arise to live for him, and not for myself.
As far as Jennifer Knapp and other Christian artists coming out of the closet to say they are homosexual, I will leave this matter to their own consciences. Feeling that way, and being sure they are that way, is their own burden. I won’t add to it. But acting in that way, is not a God thing, but a man based thing of shame.
@SKANLYN - No. I don’t.
It is one example of the observer thinking it hot, but not being respectful.
@NaitoOfNarnia - Interesting. So… what about people who are intersex? You know, people whose physical bodies are not clearly male nor female, but rather some nonspecific point between the two. Who has god defined for them to be with? Because I have to say, that reply just seemed like a really long-winded, “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” What you said was a hermeneutic interpretation of a text that failed to consider the realities of the situation or the practicality of its application.
Ohhhh, shiiit, she’s hot. Yesss.
i believe homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of god. BUT i also believe that all sins are equal. every person, be they a christian recording artist or a regular guy/girl off the streets. her sin is no worse than mine or yours, so to attack her is unfair.
@elvesdoitbetter - I don’t think it FAILED to consider the realities of the matter, but simply addressed a far more prevailing issue…one that is strictly a matter of partaking in sinful behavior.
To be completely honest, I don’t know enough about people who seem to be born asexual like you mentioned (or born with physical features of both). If anything, that’s nothing more than a very difficult and unfortunate affect of how sin literally corrupts God’s corruption and distorts His original design.
Similar to the blind man on the street whom the disciples asked of Jesus, “Who sinned…that this man should be blind?” Jesus answered, “No one sinned. He is blind so that the glory of God can be seen today.” And thus the man’s sight was restored.
The man’s condition was not due to anyone’s specific/direct sinful act. However, I do argue that it is the nature of sin coursing through all of humanity that does have drastic effects on natural birth. Hence, birth defects.
Sadly, this even affects the physical bodies of people directly related to their gender.
I cannot adequately answer how such an unfortunate person is to proceed in such a case…I’ve never even met a person with such a condition as far as I have ever known. No doubt, God would understand the confusion that’s sure to arise and will act patiently and graciously and will lead the person gently in the way they should go. Don’t ask ME what that way is exactly…that’s honestly just beyond me. But suffice to say, being born with a genetic gender/physical defect is not a sin. But directly disobeying God is. So, to be a bit blunt, comparing matters of homosexuality and this issue you ask me about are not comparable. It’s a good question, though, and one that would definitely need a wise and patient answer.
@soyeahthatswhathappened - Other than the fact that the CONSEQUENCES of various sins will be different, I fully agree with you there. Well said. As a Christian, I am fully behind your statement there.
1 Corinthians 6:9 , Lev 18:22 ; These verses are only a couple that say that homosexuality is wrong.
1 Timothy 6:3 , 2 Timothy 4:3 , Titus 1:9 ; And these are verses saying that anyone who says otherwise is wrong and not teaching a sound doctrine.
@elvesdoitbetter - One other thought. What I said was long-winded, sure. But it was necessary to explain WHY it’s not “Adam and Steve”. Too many people get hung up on the rule and don’t explain or don’t even know why the rule is that way. I do. Thus, the long explanation. God had a reason and that reason NEEDS to be known.
@PseudoEuphoric - You’re very welcome. And even if you’re not the best Christian in the world, your humble admission is sign of a heart that’s willing to not let that remain the case. And THAT is a very Christian thing, indeed. Don’t worry about what you have or don’t have in terms of spiritual strength, wisdom, etc, just be willing to grow, then, as God leads you, do it.
I’m willing to bet your on your way as we speak. I believe in you.
@midge4ever - Hmm, the whole passage makes me wonder… How do Christians know the genuine meaning behind that? Maybe it means a male should not lie with a male and a female at the same time!
I’m just saying.
@NaitoOfNarnia - The concept that man (representing God’s masculinity) and woman (having God’s femininity) come together in holy sex and show the full image of God is a romantic concept. But this concept is false. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that man represents God’s masculinity, that woman has God’s femininity, or that male-female sex shows the full image of God. Therefore this concept cannot be used to say that sex between men and sex between women is wrong.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace -
But not if my way of thinking is done with the guidance of God in the first place
If something causes harm to another, that is pretty obviously not right… It isn’t just my reality, it is pretty much common sense.
@Orlando - But not if my way of thinking is done with the guidance of God in the first place
And how do you know that? Every religious fanatic in the world thinks they are acting with the guidance of God. The truth is that because man is subject sin it is impossible for us to apply our minds to what is spiritual.
That’s why God was very specific about his revelation to us. He started working with a specific tribe, the Hebrews and final sent Jesus, God incarnate, who completed God’s revelation to man.
Jesus said very specific things to very specific people that had specific meaning. The Church has guarded that meaning since the time of Christ. It is the only Church, Christ’s continued presense on earth that knows completely and has the authority to teach the meaning of God’s revelation to man.
Otherwise the truth is simply whatever anyone wants to make up. And saying that whatever is made up is made up under the guidance of God does indeed give whatever is made an air of righteousness.
Ignorance is astounding.
@Miss_Sunburst -
It certainly, is, and sadly, Fear is a bit stronger, and drives it.
I know it the very
same way you or any other individual knows it. By prayer.
How do
you KNOW what you KNOW?
it is very obvious when people are hurting
other peoples or not showing the same human respect that one would
expect for themselves. Morality is actually common sense if you stop
long enough to think about it, and overcome your Fear Hell and your
early religious upbringing, if you were raised with those scary beliefs.
I
see no need to fear God. I have actually had a discussion with what
you would call “holy spirit” in person.
The bible was man’s work,
not God’s, although the basic premise is God’s and is the same
fundamentally in all religions.
If you studied history and did some research , you may be surprised that even though many people were writing things down at the time Christ was said to live,
You’re very belief that he actually walked is NOT able to be proven by science. I mean there is no historical evidence that Jesus Christ even lived.
It is interesting how you have so passionately accepted an ideology you have been given by others without finding truth for yourself.
Your whole religion is based on hearsay and word of mouth. No one wrote Christ’s words, if he actually spoke them , until nearly 100 years after the crucifixion.
You have become passionate and accepting of a belief system that is totally based on faith alone.
Faith is the peace that passes understanding. The truth of God and Life and Death are far beyond our range of understanding, so blind faith is all we got…
@neverforqetmex3 - Some passages from God’s Word don’t have different or hidden meanings. Lying with a man and a women at the same time would still mean he’s performing homosexual acts. which is wrong. I’m glad you actually took time to look up the passages though. I wasn’t sure if anyone would.
@PseudoEuphoric - God is forgiving, but if we just continue to live in sin, thinking oh God will forgive me so it’s ok if I do this. You have to wonder how strong of a Christian you are. We can’t let ourselves think that it’s ok to sin. God hates sin. We need to hate the fact that we are sinners, but be thankful that God was gracious enough to send us a redeemer, Jesus.
@Orlando - The word of God is God breathed and /god inspired. You can’t change that just by saying there’s no way to prove it.
@midge4ever - I’ve read the bible in it’s entirety during my life. I went to Catholic school for 9 years. I looked up the passages to remind myself. It’s just, I can’t see why the God that’s supposed to accept everyone thinks people that are genuinely good but sleep with the same sex, are an abomination. It just doesn’t add up to me.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - What you’re saying makes sense, but I have had far too many conversations with church leaders who have expressly told me that homosexuality is the ultimate, “unforgivable” sin. Period. But I agree that many times sermons are focused on problem areas but I just don’t feel that the “fire and brimstone” approach is an effective one that is preached according to this topic in an unbalanced manner at some churches.
@OngishLyOngLee - I am sorry that you’ve had such negative “church” experiences. But please don’t give up on God! The most important thing to remember is that people are people and we all make mistakes, but God never fails us! I encourage you to keep looking; find a church that welcomes you with open arms and when you feel like something is preached that you are unsure about or that makes you uncomfortable – take it to God.
I know that stuff is easier said than done sometimes but please know that my heart goes out to you and I will be praying for you
@NaitoOfNarnia - i think i see what you mean, if it diverges from God’s plan, it’s wrong. So i guess Gods plan works out better for some people then for others, and it’s vague objectives seem to be tied up to this whole ‘creation of man’ thing, and that even though there’s so much pain and suffering in the world, and innocent children and people are put through horribly evil situations single everyday, and God, who is all powerful, doesn’t do anything about it, because He’s got a plan and/or He’s trying to make a point is the reason why homosexuality is wrong, because either people go with the plan or go to hell. The only other solution is that God gets a new plan.
I read a bumper sticker today that said “God is in control”, and i realized that if the current state of the world is God’s version of control then we’re fucked.
but no worries, it’s not that big a deal anyways.
@Raycol - Verbatim? No, the Bible doesn’t say that. The Bible doesn’t mention the term “Trinity”, either, but yet, we see through Jesus’ words and other Scripture that the very idea that the word “Trinity” means is still there. We just derived a term to represent that idea. So it is with how we each represent God’s image.
But let’s look at what we DO know and take it from there. It’s ultimately going to require a bit of inductive reasoning and logic, but it’s not at all far fetched.
First we have Genesis 1:26a, “Then God said, ‘Let Us make human beings in Our image, to be like Us.’”
So that part is very clear. Human beings are made in God’s image. What image is that, though? We know from John 4:24 that God is spirit and has no physical form. So our bodies are unique to us as part of God’s creation. By closer examination, our likeness to God is in terms of creativity, thought, feelings, and character traits.
Still, we further see in Genesis 1:27, just a verse later, it gets even more specific, “So God created human beings in His own image. In the image of God He created them; male and female He created them.” So now we see that both men and women bear likeness to God. It might seem that that’s where the evidence stops, but it really does go further. The Bible is chock-full of descriptions about God’s nature: warrior, healer, comforter, teacher, disciplinarian, nurturer, leader, helper, beautiful, protector, mysterious, encourager, woo-er of our hearts…and much, much more. All of these characteristics are found in the very nature of the masculine (men) and feminine (women). Some might seem found in the other gender, too, but I’m talking about intrinsic traits of men and of women. Given the very obvious differences (non-physical) between men and women, it would be an error to say that both men and women individually carry the full image of God. No, the truth is that we each bear PART of God’s full image.
And it doesn’t take much to notice that there are a great many qualities found predominantly in men and the others in women.
Now, even though Adam was created first, it wasn’t long after that God created Eve. “So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. While the man slept, the LORD God took out one of the man’s ribs and closed up the opening. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and He brought her to the man. ‘At last!’ the man exclaimed. ‘This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called “woman,” because she was taken from “man.”‘ This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.” Genesis 2:21-24
So, if a man and a woman coming together in holy sex is what ultimately makes them “one flesh” (united into one, though still two individual beings), AND we are made in God’s image, then it’s very sensible to conclude that holy sex is, indeed, where we see the full image of God.
Just because the Bible may not specifically mention something verbatim doesn’t mean that it’s not there. For instance, I might tell you that I’m thinking about a letter of the alphabet. Instead of telling you the specific letter, I might say, “I’m thinking of the fourth letter from the beginning of the alphabet.” That, of course, would be the letter D. Now if someone else came along and you told them that I was thinking of the letter D, they would be in error to say that just because I didn’t SAY the letter D, I didn’t mean that letter based on the information I did provide. So it is with the matter of sex being God’s gift to us so that we may experience God’s full image. It’s there, you just have to put the pieces together.
@Gentlemen_DontAsk_Questions - God’s plans ALWAYS work out for everyone…provided that they FOLLOW God’s plans.
God is always active, but the reasons He may or may not do something at any given moment is dependent on the person (or people) involved and what He aims to do ultimately. We also have to recognize that Satan is often involved and that bad things that happen are not due to God but because of Satan trying to mess things up, too.
God is always in control. If we’re on our way to Hell, it’s because we’ve chosen to completely IGNORE Jesus and refuse His gift of love and salvation from our sins. The difference is that God allows us free will to choose. But it’s because He is in control that we even have the option of free will. He COULD change it all if He decided and we’d follow Him like robots. But that isn’t what He wanted, so He is willing to bear the pain of some of us going to Hell in order that we at least have the choice…terrible as such a choice might be.
But then there are those who do choose Jesus. And THAT is worth the pain that letting us have free will sometimes includes.
@Losers_Advocate - i don’t know anyone who thinks it’s “unforgivable.” there’s nothing biblical to back that claim. but, of course, there are people who just make things up and pretend that’s the way it is. i’m just trying to combat the mindset that so many people have these days that everything the church does is wrong and stems from some kind of hatred.
@NaitoOfNarnia - Totally NOT worth it. I mean, i’m not complaining about my life, because my life is pretty good, but for other people in other situations? I don’t see how it’s “worth it”
@Gentlemen_DontAsk_Questions - Worth it? What are you expecting, then, if you were to follow God? What is it you expect to get out of a Friendship with the Lord who created you? Or for that matter, as you stated, why is it not worth it for others who do suffer?
homosexuality is no different than any other sin — lying, cheating, adultery, etc. as Christians we are still going to sin, but we are not supposed to be actively engaged in sin, that is, living a sinful lifestyle. as a Christian you should be doing your best to live a holy life, and when you stumble you repent and work on not committing that sin again. however, to claim to be Christian but yet persist in living a sinful lifestyle, THAT is the problem. you can be Christian and living a sinful life, but it is dishonoring to God.
Re: the OP- Duh, homosexuality is explicitly forbidden in the Bible.
Until someone proves that there is or is not absolutely without doubt a God, I wouldn’t worry about.
@TheMANinTHEyellowHAT - Oh yeah, I totally get that. I don’t blame the Church as a whole. I believe that there are some misguided individuals within the Church, but that’s true with any religion or group. We’re all human. We’re all fallible.
@NaitoOfNarnia - i’m talking about innocent people who suffer, and they not only suffer because of the actions of evil people, but because of chance and nature, i don’t see how a being that could do something about it, but doesn’t, is truly all loving. If God allows unfortunate things to happen to good people, to prove a point, or to show He allows freedom of choice, then that just seems really petty. Why doesn’t God just help people who need it, immediately, instead of having a “master plan” that has allowed humans to suffer because of one another and because of natural circumstances.
People say evil prevails when good men fail to act, so why don’t we hold God to that standard?
@neverforqetmex3 - No one on earth is “good”. If you had actually read the whole Bible like you said you did maybe you would remember these verses.
Judges 20:8
New International Version
All the people rose as one man, saying, “None of us will go home. No, not one of us will return to his house.
Judges 20:7-9 (in Context) Judges 20 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 14:3
New King James Version
They have all turned aside,They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
Psalm 14:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 14 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 53:3
New King James Version
Every one of them has turned aside;They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
Psalm 53:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 53 (Whole Chapter)
Romans 3:10
English Standard Version
as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:9-11 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)New King James Version
As it is written: “ There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:9-11 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)
Romans 3:12New King James Version
They have all turned aside;They have together become unprofitable;There is none who does good, no, not one.”
Romans 3:11-13 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)
The phrase (there in none righteous, or there is none who does good) is repeated several times in the Bible. It’s kind of hard to miss. God says that even our best works here on earth are like dirty rags. I still hold firm to the fact that I believe in a loving and forgiving God. But, I also believe in a just and righteous God. He gave us all a choice and a promise. If we follow him we will spend eternity in heaven. If we don’t follow him we will spend eternity in hell.
Is the word homosexual even in the bible? Im pretty sure the vatican has something to do with the translation.
@midge4ever - Yes, I have. I know God believes that no one is necessarily completely “good.” Does that mean I memorized which verses they were in? No. All I’m saying is, if none of us are good, then what makes homosexuals any worse? It’s not a choice, it’s who they are. If living their life they way they’ve born to is considered a sin condemning them to hell, well then that’s not the God I’ve heard about.
There’s this quote that I sincerely like that explains my point of view. Of course, everyone has their own opinion and that’s fine. I’m just stating mine, that’s all.”Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
@neverforqetmex3 - Homosexuality IS a choice because it is a sin. People choose to sin and that’s what is wrong with it. Homosexuality is not who they are. The aren’t born like that. They are sinners. We are all sinners. But that does NOT change the fact that we are supposed to live for God and like Christ daily. That is the definition of being a Christian. being like Christ, striving to live like he did. and choosing to be homosexual is NOT the way to do that. I really don’t agree with your quote. The only quotes I hold close to my hearts are quotes from Scripture, God’s Word. I’ll be praying for your salvation and for your eyes to be opened.
@midge4ever - Of course not, but you can certainly interpret it and re-breath your own expression of it!
@midge4ever - Really? I’m sorry but I will never wrap my brain around that concept. If there’s a homosexual volunteering in Haiti, helping out good charities, and being the nicest they can be… they’re still not living in an acceptable way because of who they love? Did you choose to be straight? Did you wake up one morning and say “Yeah, I think I’m going to like the opposite sex.” No, I bet you didn’t. Anyway, I’ll leave it alone because this will never end.
@neverforqetmex3 - That’s right. Because they are choosing to live in daily sin they will not be given the gift of eternal life. And I suggest you don’t tell people what they’ve experienced. You have no idea what I have chosen to do. I choose the be straight daily. There was a time in my life when I wasn’t sure what I was. I never did anything, but I thought about things. Then, I remembered God’s Word and how it tells us that homosexuality is wrong. From that point on I have been disgusted by even the thought of homosexuality. I’m disgusted by those thoughts I used to think. It is a choice. So, choose to do the right thing.
Homosexuality is a sin, but all Christians struggle with one sin or another. Thing is, as a Christian she should resist her sinful desires just as if she struggled with something such as lying or something, which God can help her with.