April 17, 2010
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Carrying a Gun Without a Permit
In just a few months, a person will be able to carry a concealed gun in Arizona without a permit.
The Governor signed the bill and made it a law. The person must be a U.S. citizen and 21 years old or older. The person will have to “accurately answer” if a police officer asks the individual if he/she is carrying a gun. Here is the link: Link
Do you think a person should be able to carry a concealed weapon without having a permit?
Comments (107)
I don’t think it is unreasonable to require citizens to have a permit to carry a concealed firearm. But I’m also not alarmed at the new law in Arizona.
I think everyone that carries a gun should have to take the class and pass the test to carry a fire arm so I guess the answer is no I don’t
@verified_but_still_denied - Well a back ground check is good but the bad guys will get a gun no matter what id they truly want one
yes
No. I have a 357 and a concealed weapons permit and now I am happy I have it.
@verified_but_still_denied - I agree, I have no problem with people carrying guns as long as they were legally allowed to own one in the first place. @SisterMom1954 - I think they should have to take classes and pass the test before they can purchase the weapon then we could eliminate the whole permit process and save everyone time and money.
@SisterMom1954 - That is a sad truth. But we gotta start and hope somewhere right? = It’s not as if we can make sure to limit the person to what they claim to use the gun for.
what would be the difference, practically?
The Second Amendment has been tragically misinterpreted. Gun lovers have the blood of millions on their hands and people who are into carrying guns around are frightening, and deserving of my scorn. I don’t even want to be near people like that.
It’s not really a permit I’m worried about. because sure everyone has a right to bear arms according to the second amendment. However, What I would like to know is if they do a background check before selling the gun. I find that more important than having a permit honestly.
@tsh44 - Oooh thats an idea.
It is sad that we have been reduced to a point where we think it is normal to need permits to exercise our constitutional rights.
So they’re passing this law with and last week they passed one that exempts guns made and sold in Arizona from federal regulation, which include background checks? No, that’s not a recipe for disaster at all. I can’t see bad guys legally buying guns that don’t require background checks and carrying them without a permit. While we’re at it, lets give everyone a chemistry labs because drug users won’t think to make drugs with them.
I think a permit for a concealed firearm is a good thing.
I suppose we should just make everyone carry their weapons openly
permit for concealed, yes………………….if you want to wear the damn thing in a holster on your hip in plain sight, no.
of course, second Amendment! If cops can do it, private citizens should get to as well. We should have that law in CA!
Um, that’s been the law in Maine for as long as I can remember(no permit needed for CONCEALED CARRY). Seriously, who gives a fuck? (unless you’re a cop)
@scrambledmegsntoast - said the republican to the NRA, GOOD LUCK.
Why not carry it openly?
I live in Arizona, and personally, I think our governor is a bitch and an idiot. I reserve those terms for when it’s true.
Yup. Second Amendment didn’t say a word about permits. And the criminals sure as hell aren’t applying for conceal carries. And I can guarantee they ARE carrying.Wyoming tried to pass one this year. We’ll do it again next year.
I have no problems with having to have a permit to carry concealed. I think that’s reasonable. Given a choice, I’d rather have a law like this put into place rather than one that further restricts carrying altogether.
Ehh, I’m on the fence.
To me, it seems better to continue requiring permits for concealed carry, but that’s supported by nothing but my gut feelings.
Yes
Yes.
@scrambledmegsntoast - The founders of our country wanted to make sure that the government was never more powerful than the people. That’s why George Washington had such a problem keeping an army, the people were scared to authorize an army for anything other than a set period of time and when that time expired, the soldiers would go home, leaving him to recruit a whole new army again.@tsh44 - I like that idea. In order to carry maybe you need to carry along proof of a safety/law class.
I’m licensed to carry concealed in 38 states, and I do. But, as far as I’m concerned, the 2nd Amendment IS my license to carry firearms.
many states have open carry laws. Pennsylvania has one. Florida has one. We also have concealed weapons permits. Actually that is our one area where conflict arises in the law:
Our 1968 Constitution says in Article 1:
Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. “
_____________________
“shall not be questioned” is pretty definitive language
@dingus6 - 1. Most citizens are actually more comfortable with concealed carry because just the sight of a gun can cause unnecessary anxiety, etc. even if it’s legal. Out of sight, out of mind. Most people would be surprised if they knew how many people actually carry guns around them and they don’t even know it.
2. For tactical reasons. If you are going to be attacked by someone or are a target, in some instances you may not want to reveal that you are carrying. Also, if someone sees you carrying a gun, you can easily become a target for the sake of actually stealing your gun and/or using it against you.
3. Carrying concealed keeps ‘the bad guys’ from knowing who is or isn’t carrying a gun. For instance, if someone robs the banks while you and your concealed gun are in the bank, you can go from hapless victim to hero. That’s probably a lame example, but I hope you get my point.
@lightnindan - It makes sense. I mean in order to operate a vehicle we have to prove we can drive, heck even electricians need to get a license.
I just think proof of taking a class, is one thing, totally different than a license which is effectively the government saying we give you permission, which we may revoke, to do xyz if xyz is a right guaranteed by the Constitution.
@lightnindan - I think that’s a very good and very important point.
@radicalramblings - I agree.
Wow, they are hardcore in Arizona.
The Constitution says citizens have the right to bear arms. Nuclear bombs are considered arms.
The Constitution says citizens have the right to bear nuclear arms.
nothing wrong with carrying a gun. its a free country and we shouldnt have to have permits to allow us to do something. I know people will disagree..but I think this will stop alot of crime.
In Texas you *must* conceal your legally licensed handgun.
Where I live now, you don’t need a license and *must* openly carry it. You can purchase weapons with just your driver’s licence. Of course, here we’re protecting ourselves from *real live* animals.
I have to say yes only because we have a right to bear arms but we have to jump through a million hoops to get it and pay money out the butt honestly id like to be able to easily cause a lil mingun in my purse when im walking through a city if i get robbed ill get the gun instead of my wallet im just saying i dont htinkits such a abd idea as long as the gun is still registered
here in montana, that bill is about to pass as well. i think law abiding citizens NEED to start carrying. after all, the sheep of america are waking up and they are hungry to take a bit out of our freedoms. <— scrambledmegsntoast anyone?
Absolutely!
I say…that’s be an interesting test of modern history, and leave it at that.
I like that people don’t need a permit for open-carry…I think more people should open-carry. Concealed is mildly different, though, so I’ll be watching curiously for any news about this.
Speaking from experience in my own state, everyone here’s been able to get a gun without going to actual gun shop, or getting a permit. People sell ‘em at flea markets, barter for ‘em, etc. We’re a farm state, it’s not really surprising…and our crime rate isn’t sky high.
@scrambledmegsntoast - Seriously? People carrying guns around are frightening? Most research indicates that the more citizens who are armed, the less crime there is. It’s criminals having guns that is frightening.
All I have to say is go Arizona. I wish Texas would get on board.
Works in Vermont and Alaska. I doubt it would be an issue anywhere they were to try it
@scrambledmegsntoast - “tragically misinterpreted” that is funny Megan it means exactly what it says, exactly what the men who wrote it intended it to mean. and what the Supream court has ruled it means. Seems they can read English
In your home state you were always near them one of the highest concealed carry rates in the nation at 5th highest. And the state you live in now is number 2. But I know this is not an issue of reason for you but emotion
Why do people need to conceal their weapons?
Definitely not.
I live in Arizona and I think it’s crazy. There are already 2 other states that have passed this law.
@styx_site - No. I have a 357 and a concealed weapons permit and now I am happy I have it.
Whoa. Now, I would be very scared to cut you off in traffic.
I see that it might be wise to actually have a permit for it…but then I am not really sure on all of this. I don’t like guns at all myself so maybe I shouldn’t voice my opinion on this.
@andfeud - Why do people need to conceal their weapons?
The same reason any two losers in Columbine would need concealed weapons– to supplement their self-worth.
@XxFireXboltxX - Seriously? People carrying guns around are frightening? Most research indicates that the more citizens who are armed, the less crime there is. It’s criminals having guns that is frightening.
Correlation =/= causation.
In this case, tighter gun restriction is implemented as a reply to high crime, not as a cause of it.
I don’t see a need for a law abiding citizen to have a permit to carry a weapon. I do however, see a huge need for anybody who intends to buy, own, keep, or carry a weapon to go through a very strict training class on the proper handling, use, and pertinent laws for buying, owning, keeping, and carrying a weapon. I’ve seen far too may guns mishandled, and seen to many “accidents” caused by inappropriate use of firearms; a 20 year old male bleeding out from a shot to his femoral artery while cleaning his gun, a 26 year old male with a bullet wound to the abdomen received while showing his pistol to his girlfriend, a wife accidentally shot in the head and killed and the distraught husband shooting himself in the head while their ten year old daughter sat in the next room, a four year old boy with a bullet hole through his foot … just to name a few. I see no reason to take gun ownership and use any less seriously than obtaining a driver’s license. So, permit to carry? Not necessarily. Certificate of instruction in the proper use and handling of prior to purchase? Definitely.
Abso-freakin-lutely!
@Kiwigummy - Hm, funny, last time I read the second amendment I don’t remember it saying that all citizens have the right to carry concealed weapons in public.
Our newspaper had a headline Thursday that said, “Arizona May Crack Down On Immigration.” Do you think there’s a connection?
So now any crazy person can carry a gun? That’s scary… I’m going to cross Arizona off my list of places to live in the future.
if/when this happens im gonna start carrying around an unconcealed weapon o_____o;
@T0m03 - Crazy people are already carrying guns. No law will stop them if they want to carry a gun.
@TheSmokeMonster - only on a bad day. I just fel safer with the junkies and homeless moving into this little town. As the unemployment rate gets higher and higher and people move out, the street people move in.
im english, therefore my view point is- ”members of the public being allowed to freely own guns, nevermind carry them around, is really weird. whats wrong with you people?”
i dont mean this in an insulting way, its just that in england firearms are very rare. on the odd occasion i see armed police (and im fairly sure its always been in airports) it makes me kinda nervous. we just dont see the need to have guns around in way that lots of other countries in the world seem to. i haven’t a clue as to why.
if you are gonna carry a gun, i can think of no reason why you’d need to conceal it. can i also ask a question while im here? i was under the impression the 2nd amendment gave people the right to bear arms within a militia, not privately, but it’s never full quoted. is that true or not?
Truthfully, I think that the second amendment is fairly outdated. Have weapons in your home, sure, if you live in the sticks, and bears are still a problem, by all means, carry a weapon. But in this day and age, do you *really* need a gun on your person when you go to Pasadena, or even the goddamn Starbucks? There are no more snakes to shoot, natives to murder, or mountain lions to defend yourself from. So if you’re still going to carry a gun to downtown LA, I’d better be able to see it. There’s nothing wrong with requiring a concealed weapons permit.
@plain_snailing - The 2nd amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms, and later on, it also states that we as citizens have the right to form our own militias. So they’re two separate clauses. But then you have to ask, what defines arms? Should we be allowed to carry around nuclear material as well? Bombs? Grenades?
is arizona in the USA?
I would go ape shit if I saw someone walking around carrying a weapon. I would freak out even more if they didn’t have a permit, or weren’t even licensed to have one. Hell, I don’t even trust the police 100% of the time with their guns.
Isn’t Arizona crawling with gangs? At least that’s the last I heard from someone who lived there. Then again, they’ll have guns either way. It’s funny how they think a 21 year old is automatically more sensible than an 18 year old or a 20 year old. But no, I don’t think this is a good thing at all.
Yes; a person has the right to carry a weapon to defend himself/herself. Requiring a permit infringes upon that right. As do gun registration laws.
Well…it IS in the Constitution that we can bear or carry firearms. Why should we have to have extra permission to do this?
no. if you don’t need a permit than someone with anger mangement issues could have one, someone with a previous record of violent crimes could have one, someone prone to psychotic breaks could have one, exactly the sort of people who might snap and shoot someone will be able to walk around with a gun and an officer cant’ say anything until they fire it. that sounds like an awful idea to me
@Shy___Away -
@manilajones -
most people are not taught the genesis of the bill of rights.
“The Address and reasons of dissent of the minority of the convention, of the state of Pennsylvania, to their constituents.” was the basis from which the bill of rights was formed.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=1807
Open carry is “de facto” legal in 12 states as they lack any specific laws or ordinances prohibiting open carry
You must also remember that the enumerated powers of congress were listed in article 1, section 8 of the constitution and powers not enumerated to them was retained by each state.
Printz (Mack) v United States really brought the tenth amendment aspect back into the regulation of firearms and the distinction of powers that the federal and state government do and do not have in reference to firearms.
I think this is probably evolution, or natural selection at work. As if a simple little gun is going to stop a tyrannical government with armys and weapons of mass destruction from taking the country over if it really wants to…. right…
I don’t think ANYONE should have a right to a gun. I don’t care for what purpose one has for a gun. Even if it is for defense, the only function of a gun is to shoot someone else. Why have this weapon around when it is only intended to kill? Guns should be abolished for everyone and everywhere. This law makes me sick.
The concealed carry law as it stands is almost backwards. These days, it is a big scene to see someone walking around with a gun if they don’t have a uniform. The person carrying the gun in an unconcealed state is likely to get harassed by an ignorant public, or even have the police called on them. I want to get my concealed carry permit so that I don’t have to make a big scene. I said that the law is backwards because I think it would just be polite to keep the fact that you are packing to yourself and not make such a huge public disturbance.
Yes.
Here is the myth about gun owners. We all have violent tendencies. Not true. Most of us use your firearms for target shooting and/or hunting. Just because someone owns a gun, doesn’t mean he or she is going to murder someone. The gun can’t fire itself. It needs someone to pull the trigger. And it’s all about the person. If you got a murderer, then no gun. If you have an everyday person who uses their guns for home defense and sport, then give ‘em their firearms! It’s the second ammendment.
But I hope people with bad intentions don’t abuse this are ruin it for us HONEST firearm owners.
And it is NOT a weapon unless you have the intention to kill another human. I could kill with a banana as easily as a gun, so why don’t be ban bananas? If gun control advocates thought about it, they’d have to eliminate humans from the earth along with anything else because we can kill with bare hands. We couldn’t even be naked and live on concrete with nothing around because you could slam someone’s head into the concret and kill ‘em. Ok. I’m waaaay off track =).
@Born261YearsTooLate - Hmm good word. I don’t think ANYONE should own a firearm without taking the classes you spoke of. Yes, they’re cool and fun to shoot. But only if it’s done safely.
I love this states gun laws. It makes me proud. I have had a permit, but I think it is good that this thing was put into effect. An armed society is a polite society.
Common sense and the Constitution.
Sorry but there are enough crazy people with guns as it is. I know anyone that wants a gun can get one easily but a permit is at least some sort of roadblock. They might as well just hand them out.
guns are stupid. i think there’s some stat about guns used more often in committing suicide than actually used in self-defense and usually the person who pulls the trigger to kill themself is not the owner of the gun. we have police. everyday people, if they respect other people, really should have no reason to own a gun. i don’t know the implications of what the no permit thing are.
it’s no different than now. i mean they have guns on their dash boards already. what’s a concealed weapon? they never followed the law.
@Regikiu - ”I don’t think ANYONE should have a right to a
gun.” Remember this cute little speech when a criminal –who doesn’t give a CRAP about the law– demands your wallet or your life. I’m sure he will apologize for his bad behavior.
No. Hell, I’m freaked out by the fact that we have guns. Period.
Great, now even MORE psychos will get their hands on a gun.
@k0k0r0xkit - ”…everyday people, if they respect other
people, really should have no reason to own a gun.” You make the mistaken assumption that people are basically good and will act accordingly.
@radicalramblings - I absolutely love this answer and agree 100 percent. molone labe
People that want to carry guns carry them regardless of permits.
Although the permit idea is good, it doesn’t really do much.
However, if I wanted to carry a gun, I’d feel like I wanted to get the permit. I can’t really say why.
You can already do this in NH. There doesn’t seem to be many negative consequences. Then again, it is NH, so it’s not like crime was ever rampant in the first place.
@Regikiu - I agree.
Well, it’s not like you would know, right? lol
@DirtyAndShaken - Very true, but now that it’s legal, nothing can be done about these crazy people carrying guns without permits because now they don’t need permits. There wouldn’t be anything to get caught for.
only the law abiding folks
@T0m03 - Well, not entirely true. You still have to be a legal gun owner in order to carry concealed. Convicted felons and “crazy” people are still not allowed to own or carry guns period. Will they? Of course. But if caught carrying concealed or otherwise, they can/will still be arrested. Requiring a permit really does nothing to protect us from crazy people (i.e. clinically depressed, crazy, etc.). You aren’t required to produce any sort of paperwork proving your sanity when you apply for a permit. Typically a background check is done, but criminals who choose to carry don’t apply for a permit anyway. Most states require a background check when purchasing a gun (and to the fault of gun sellers, some forgo this step). Creating new and harsher laws for “gun control” do absolutely nothing to protect us from people who shouldn’t have access to guns, but hinder those who are responsible and carry responsibly and want to protect themselves.
Some states do require that a person prove knowledge of how to handle and use a gun, which is something I would like to see, but that’s entirely different than a permit. Permit usually just means the government is collecting yet another fee.
@radicalramblings - 100% AGREE.
And to answer your question, Dan, absolutely they should be able to.
@Regikiu - If you look back in history, you will see that tyrannical governments’ first step toward assuring themselves of their power is to de-arm the population. If the population is not armed, we have no last-ditch method of standing up for ourselves when the ballot box fails.
@TheSmokeMonster - agreed.
You shouldn’t have to ask permission to exercise ANY civil right.
no
Robert Heinlein always said, “An armed society is a polite society.”
Nope.
I think to stay out of legal hassles, get a permit. It isn’t that hard to do and even if it costs a little much, it’s better to have the permit than not. That’s just my opinion.
@DirtyAndShaken - So… Everyone who carries a gun needs to have a permit… Just not a concealed weapons permit? If that’s the case, I guess it doesn’t make that big of a difference.
Yes.
@scrambledmegsntoast - your comment is totally off base. Most of the killings from guns come from inner-city drug dealers who are to lazy to get jobs and want the gov. to take care of them. Ca. has a very high drive by shooting rate, why drug dealers who want the easy life with out having to get out and work for it. I say if drug dealers come on my land and threaten me or my family I love to help send these scum bags to hell.
Yes.
In Washington it’s legal to open carry with out a permit. My husband has his CWP and carry’s concealed most of the time but he enjoys open carrying too. Personally, I think it’s great!
Well Arizona can serve as a test case for other states considering the move. The only problem I have is at least let there be some sort of background check and mandatory safety class before giving someone a gun.
No. It just sounds like a bad idea. Seriously.
It would be nice to live in a fairy tale land where all of society was respectful of one another. But in reality there are some truly evil and sickn bastards on this planet and if i ever have to face one i hope i have a gun and he doesnt. But i dont own a gun so i guess im screwed.
Honestly, they just need some a stupid chemist who makes a mistake and takes out a city block.
Just need proper training and learning how to maintain a firearm.With that, the problem is fixed. However, many go about without care about their firearms and mistakes happen.
Wouldn’t you be worried about the many chemists who have access to dangerous materials?.