September 11, 2010

  • Why Americans Have Not Forgiven Muslims for 9/11

    Americans have not forgiven Muslims for the attack of 9/11.  Yes, I am saying at some level, Americans actually take a skeptical eye at Muslims since 9/11.

    The reason is because most Americans experienced their first real contact with the Muslim community on 9/11.

    I think people outside our country did not realize the power of TV as it relates to 9/11.  Americans watched on live TV as a second plane ran into one of the World Trade Centers.  They watched on live TV people jumping from the buildings to their death.  They saw repeats of people jumping to their deaths all day until the TV stations decided to stop playing the video tapes.  They watched the live broadcast of the towers falling.

    Now at this point if you are a Muslim, you are probably saying “This was not me.  It was someone else.”  And intellectually Americans know that. 

    But another thing happened on 9/11.  Video tape were played over and over again of Muslims celebrating the death of 3000 people.  They were cheering in the streets.

    Here is one of those videos:

      

    So Americans were seeing video of planes being run into buildings.  They were watching video of people jumping from a building.  It was playing over and over again.  And yet they were also seeing Muslims cheering the death of Americans.  This was not a few radicals.  This looked like a movement.  This looked like a group of people that did not care about the death of Americans.  In fact, it looked like a group of people that were happy about the death of Americans.

    Now I am ready for you to build a “Community Center” or a “Mosque” next to Ground Zero.  But you have to be able to understand that not every American is ready for that emotionally.  But I believe in freedom of religion so I think it should be built.

    I saw a Facebook group recently where a bunch of Muslims were going to wear a Hijab or something on 9/11 to show they were Americans too and they deserved freedom of religion.  Oddly, I saw a bunch of people on Facebook who joined the group that were not even American.

    Do you see the bad timing there?  Do you see how wearing something on 9/11 is sort of a poke in the eye.  Do you think you might want to try and pick one of the other 365 days in the year.

    I found the above photo from the front page of a news source today.  It was a bunch of Muslims burning an American flag.  Now I realize the people were upset because one man in Florida was planning to burn your holy book.

    But once again, I see this photo on 9/11 and it gives the impression that there are more than just a few Muslims that would celebrate the deaths of Americans.

    Perhaps if you want people to view you favorably, you might want to stop burning our flag, stop cheering at the death of our citizens and it might be wise to think of other ways to avoid pissing on the graves of people at Ground Zero.  Maybe today should just be a day to mourn with us at the loss of our citizens.
                                                            
                                                                     

Comments (412)

  • No I don’t see a problem with that. People deserve to be their full selves — religion, speech, community, and all — on any day, and if the populace sees an arbitrary problem with that associated with a particular date, then making a statement about that problem on that date just makes sense to me.

  • I don’t care what anyone says. People still need to realize that not all Muslims are terrorists and that not all Muslims were glad that 9/11 occurred. It’s unforgivable for people to hate the whole body, instead of the disease in the body. (That’s a metaphor, FYI.)

  • That is SICK. I’m sorry, but they really need to grow up. Celebrating one of the biggest losses in our nations history by burning our flag and cheering? We are pissed at you for good reason. 

  • @Queen_of_You188 - “It’s unforgivable for people to hate the whole body, instead of the disease in the body.”

    It’s rather strong of you to say “unforgivable.” Can you explain?

  • @Queen_of_You188 - Agreed. I get tired of it too. Only the extremists did this….not the whole of the bunch. 

  • I couldn’t have said it better.

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - But not all Muslims are like this…You gotta remember that. Even Christianity has this same kind of problem of immaturity and hatred. It’s just at the far end of the spectrum. 

  • I’m sure Muslims died in 9/11 too.

  • Dan, you know I love you, but this post is extremely one sided. There have been Americans cheering the deaths of Muslims and Iraqis and other people of middle eastern descent since before 9/11. They just don’t gather in large groups and get photographed and recorded. No, they are either silently cheering or gather in small groups. The numbers are probably equal. Which is worse? This is one of the few posts of yours that makes me mad.

  • @Hinase - I understand that. I am saying that I can relate to why people are angry with the Muslim community for not nipping this in the bud. Yes. Outrageous Christians are awful and need to be stopped. I die inside every time I see a “God hates fags” sign. It is sick. The actions are sick. It’s hard for people to see these things after they have experienced so much pain. Rage does NOT discriminate. 

  • Amen!

  • I listen to the news and think there would be more than one American celebrating the death of Muslims.

  • Le sigh.

    I would hope that you would use your Xanga notoriety for good, Dan.

    Clearly, we disagree on what is “good.”

    I’m not even sure why I’m disappointed.

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - Oh..I was afraid you were saying something else..lol That’s fine! lol I understand too…I think it’s more of mob mentality than anything…

  • but then we blew up there homes, killed there men woman and children, destroyed there governments, killed there leaders, and left them in a state of absolute desolation. ya think maybe, we might be even yet? you think we can tell the difference between a sucker punch and an all out vendetta? Even if we were in the right, you think maybe we might have taken it a little bit too far?

  • I haven’t forgiven Muslims for 9/11 because I never blamed 9/11 on them in the first place.  9/11 was Al Quida’s fault, and I will never forgive them for 9/11.

  • @seeker_nyc - You’ve got it backwards… we must forgive the individual and it’s even good for us, but the group as a whole doesn’t deserve it or WANT it! and what they did to us is sick.  it was a sneak attack on innocent men, women and children…. even pearl harbour wasn’t as bad as this attack and then to cheer about it afterwards on American soil…. the mind boggles..

  • We all need to have a giant orgy, hijabs optional.

  • We battle not against flesh and blood. The enemy can use man of any race to do his dirty work. PRAYER is a powerful weapon to defeat our foe but unfortunately alot of us believers are too lazy to get on our knees and pray!

  • you know, perhaps this needs to be looked at as citizens of another country…for example, Iran (this is just an example)…. and not muslims in general? We have lots of American Muslims that have dont even come close to being terrorists and then we have timothy mcveigh…an american and  army veteran blowing up federal buildings and day care centers. We have kids shooting up schools Columbine style…we have Catholics and other Christians blowing up clinics and assassinating medical professionals. All those qualify as terrorist in my book. We have had americans burning flags to protest wars and government. Brings me back to my point…perhaps we need to reframe all of this as not Muslims (religion) but citizens of other countries hostile to the US that may happen to be of the muslim faith. The Japanese bombed pearl harbor (yes we did worse) but the country saw it as Japanese …the citizens of Japan…not Shinto or Buddhists religion to fear and  hate etc… 

    Btw, this is just food for thought…an attempt to look at all of this from a different perspective in an effort  to see where things can be mended…its not a lecture….more of an “I wonder what if….” think out loud.

  • I kinda hope you made this post so controversial to get traffic on your site ad not because you actually believe in this. Show me a religion that hasn’t committed crimes against humanity. Show me who I’m allowed to “view favorably” because no one a part of that community has ever done anything wrong. 

    Is this post meant to be directed at the Muslims who hate Americans or all Muslims in general? Those are two very different audiences. 

  • @anotherdreamwasted_onyou - I’m sure the majority of people who died were not Muslims. I’m sure that the terrorists didn’t check to see if there were any Muslims in the towers. Makes no difference either way.

  • Do you see the bad timing there?  Do you see how wearing something on 9/11 is sort of a poke in the eye.  Do you think you might want to try and pick one of the other 365 days in the year.

    Fuck you, Dan. People can wear what they want to wear and believe what they want to believe. Go ahead and get angry; it’s all you can do.

    What the hell are you famous for anyway? All you do is pick a random news article everyday and ask a question about it. Most of the comments you receive are fewer than ten words long. You’re a joke.

  • If Americans haven’t forgiven Muslims it’s because too many of us are ignorant bigots who can’t tell the difference between the members of a terrorist organization and the remaining BILLION Muslims that have nothing to do with it.

  • @seeker_nyc - This is my point. Obviously the majority were not Muslims. These terrorists that are supposed to be ‘Musilm’ aren’t really. Otherwise would they have done what they did? All this hating on Muslims is ridiculous. It makes so much difference, actually. Muslims suffered because of what other ‘Muslims’ did to them.

  • at the beginning you say intellectual americans know that not all muslims are like that..

    the lack of education that some people have is not an excuse to discrimitate peaceful people who just want to pray to their god. I think the majority of muslims (all over the world) is deeply disgusted by what happened and is kind of ashamed, and simply just as sad as any other person who saw this.

    they show that they are muslim AND american, and don’t wont to put in one category with terrorits. How about celebrating this religion in a positive way, AND think about the victims?

  • The problem is that everyone is being viewed as labels and not people. Instead of saying there are some people who enjoy killing and victimizing others we say those killers are Muslim, those people who enjoy loss of life are Muslim, those people who bomb clinics are Christians, those people who are bigoted are Christians….. I could go on and on with every conceivable stereotype… Looking at people as labels instead of human beings just makes it that much easier to hate, and that much easier to attack, and that much easier to kill.

  • @guestbrief - I don’t hold the large majority of Muslims responsible for the attacks but to build a mosque on the site of Ground Zero, where landing gears hit the Burlington Coat factory, seems like a lot of people across all backgrounds oppose the building. I undersstand why they do.

  • Both sides need to be educated.

  • I remember being at work the first day of “shock and awe” and all the people cheering around their computers as they watched bombs being dropped on Iraq citizens. I remember all the laughs and cheers over the comment that swept through our nation like wildfire, the “we serve freedom fries” comment. The man who first coined the phrase said later he wished he had never said it and was embarrassed by the whole thing. France turned out to be on the right side of history by deciding not to help us invade Iraq “in retaliation for 9/11″ and French Fries are an invention from Belgium. I remember scenes of white Americans yelling and cursing at “them dirty Negroes” during the Civil Rights movement. I remember when moronic politicians labeled healthcare reform with names like “death panels” and so many jumped on the bandwagon without questioning. I remember when I used to post comments on Newsvine and read hundreds of comments telling people not to vote a “nigger” into the White House. I remember Glenn Beck, the man who claims he’s “restoring honor” to America, when he said years ago that he’s sick and tired of the whining families of 9/11 victims and told them to shut up. I remember when at his “restoration of honor” rally he almost got teary-eyed as he talked about holding an original document from George Washington’s inaugural speech in his bare hands, a total lie. He never did and would never have been allowed to because as a spokesperson for the National Archive explained in refutation of his claim, nobody but trained archive specialists are allowed to handle such precious documents. I remember all the people who watched the stock market every day, the publications like The Wall Street Journal and Forbes: Capitalist Tool that treated Wall Street like it was the second coming. I remember bankers being labeled “masters of the Universe”. In the meantime Wall Street was duping everyone. We supported Bin Laden through the 1980s. We put a puppet named Saddam Hussein in power over the people of Iraq. 

    Before we point fingers at the ignorance of others, we need to become intelligent ourselves, TV or no TV. 

  • In the words of Obama
    “…It was not a religion that attacked us that September day — it was al-Qaida, a sorry band of men which perverts religion.”
    Could not agree more.

  • But you see what we didn’t see replayed over and over again on television were the millions of muslism who marched in solidarity with the US after 9/11. The many, even in IRAN of all placed who condemned the attack. A vast majorty of the muslim world was against Osama Bin Laden when 9/11 happened. The news media cherry picked one scene and didn’t show Americans the full story. So now Americans think of Islam as some evil cult and nobody has made any serious attempt to educate them otherwise.

    There are over a billion muslims in the world. Most believe Islam to be a religion of peace.

    But over time more and more are turning more and more against the United States. Why? Well because of everything you said. Because we’re threatening to burn their holy book. Because we refuse to let them build a community center for everyone near ground zero (though we have no problem with a strip club in the same vicinity). Because we Because we keep blaming them, in general for the crimes of a few. We keep cherry picking one group of people burning a flag and saying “see there, that’s why you’re all evil!”  and it’s wrong.

    We woudl understand this well if someone were to argue that All Christians were to blame for the crazy few who in the name of Christianity blow up abortion clinics. Those are extremists. Those are the crazies. They don’t represent the rest of us. Most of us who are Christian would say *I* would never kill an abortion doctor or an abortion clinic worker who is just doing their job. But some did. And there are organizations, Christian organizations, who argue that it’s the right thing to do. But those radical fundamentalists appall the rest of us. Why can’t we see that it’s the exact same damn thing when it comes to 9/11 and Muslims?

    And for other reasons too are the muslims turning agaisnt the US. Reasons like our two seemingly unending and unendable wars in two majority muslim countries. And our total support of Israel without any real serious consideration of the popularly elected government of Gaza. And our grotesque violations of rights in Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay. We tortured them. We kidnapped them. We hold them indefinitely without trial to even determine their guilt or innocence. For years. We even hold kids who were 16 at the time and treat them exactly the same as hardened adults And we’re still sending unmanned predator drones to blow up their weddings and villages.  Sure WE know we’re trying not to cause civilian casualties and to abide by the law. But think of how this looks to them.

    Wearing a hijab causes no harm. Neither does burning a qu’ran. Are they insensitive acts? Undoubtedly. Do people still have a right to do them whenever and whereever they want. Absolutely.  We need to stop making mountains out of these mole hills. It’s the way we focus on them to make “larger” points that feeds the hatred and anger on both sides.

    You’re right. A lot of Americans were traumatized by 9/11 and aren’t ready to forgive Muslims.

    But maybe those Americans need to understand that a lot of Muslims have been traumatized over the decade following 9/11 by US actions. By War. And before too really. Recall the US lead UN Sanctions against Iraq killed, by one estimate over 1.5 million. And by all estimates they killed mostly children. Of course we know that we didn’t do it. You and I didn’t order those damned sanctioins. And had we, the population, known they were happening and the devastation they were causing we would have tried to stop them. At least I hope we would have. But that’s small comfort to the families of the dead who are angry and hurt.

    Maybe Muslims aren’t ready to forgive Americans either.

    We need to end this cycle of hate.

  • @anotherdreamwasted_onyou - most Americans don’t devote a whole lot of time to hating Muslims. You seem to have a distorted view of just what people do with their lives. The terrorists were of the Muslim strain. That much we do know. They were members of Al Qaeda, a terrorist group fighting in the name of Islam.

  • @seeker_nyc - 59 Muslim families lost someone that day. Sure the terrorists weren’t checking to see if there were any Muslims in the towers, but they certainly didn’t take that into consideration, and they certainly couldn’t care less. 

  • Respect. No one has any. 

  • @follow_my_beat - There are some Muslims who have spoken out against building the Mosque in that location. Why don’t people report that?

  • I agree with you on this one.  I think that is what is really scarey when you see people celebrating the death of people who died tragically just because they are born the way they are.  You can look at many different religions or races and find the same evils though.  And it actually really scares me sometimes.  Seemingly random hatreds… 

  • I think we for get that we are the ones that terrorized them first. We came in in occupied and bombed their country, killing thousands of innocent people. When do we stop to think about that?? 

  • For Americans to view Muslim Americans protesting the actions of that pastor in Florida for thinking of burning their holy book as their right to free speech or religion by burning our flag or delighting in the deaths of Americans is one thing.  We all have those rights as Americans but there are days such as 9/11 that mean something to Americans and to act in this way does poke in our societal eye so to speak; it doesn’t make us want to understand Muslims any better. Muslim Americans have to realize that they may be looked at suspiciously by other Americans because of 9/11 and disrespect doesn’t improve their image unless they don’t care about their image.

  • @nephyo - Oh my god..I wish I could rec comments because your comment is epic and so true in every level =) 

  • It is good to remember where most of the mindless hate is really coming from. We did not have it coming and we have not treated Muslims badly at all since 9-11. 

  • @Rob_of_the_Sky - I”l go with that!

  • It sounds here like you are addressing all Muslims. But since 9/11, the average non-Muslim American eye became suspicious of the average Muslim, American or not. Wearing a hijab on 9/11 is not a poke in the eye; it’s a wake up call. America is pushing Muslims away, and treating them almost as second-class citizens, and in a truly secular society NO religion is favoured over NO other religion. You say “Perhaps if you want people to view you favorably, you might want to stop burning our flag, stop cheering at the death of our citizens” … but even if all of the people who do this are Muslim, does not mean that all Muslims are doing this. They want to practice their religion in peace, just as Christians do. Can we all get along already?

  • @nephyo - Great comment.

    Muslims don’t need to be forgiven, because they did nothing wrong. Muslims as a group did nothing wrong. Twenty (19 hijackers, at least 1 mastermind) Muslims did something wrong. But that’s an overwhelming minority.

  • not all the muslims are terriost but i do think all muslims hate america

  • I think Muslims have very good reasons to hate Americans.

  • I don’t hate Muslims.  But I am not so naive as to just turn a blind eye and go along my merry way thinking this was just a fluke.  Where were the outcries shaming the terrorists from Islamic leaders for 9/11?  The silence has been a bit deafening and worthy of noting.

  • There are giant problems in Islam, and you’ve addressed them in exactly the wrong way.  It’s not a matter of “forgiving” Muslims.  Too many people forget that Muslims are among those who are most hurt by other Muslims.  I don’t understand why you’ve mentioning wearing the hijab on 9/11, building a mosque, and horrible things like burning the American flag all together.

  • this thing is far more complex, yes..   i think i can understand why some american are emotionally in that sense..   and i think the same can be said on why emotionally some of those in palestine would react in such a way, because they see what they see on a daily basis, and from what they know, america support and back the oppression that was put onto them over the decades..

    but then, in this already messy situation, a lot of what being said and done are not helping the situation…   for and from both sides, of course…

  • @firetyger - i’m not sure about those in america, but i think the outcries of muslim leaders from various countries don’t actually reach the news in the US…   and hence the perception of none of them actually happen…   (i think the same might go to what happen in certain countries, where they have been attacked and bombed by the US, and they don’t actually get the news that many in the US actually disagree with that, so they might think of the american just the way some, that all american want them dead, and thus the hate)

  • I believe in freedom of religion too, but not when it’s being used for political purposes. The Ground Zero Mosque is an attempt to add salt to the wound America acquired this fateful day nine years ago. If Muslims want to see less bigotry against them, they should start treating us with the same respect as they expect from us.

  • i was in first grade, therefore i don’t really care.

  • You stated Americans have not forgiven Muslims for the attack of 9/11.

    For Christs sake Dan, DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!

    I am every bit as much of an American as you are, I happen to be a USAF veteran, and I do not feel the way you do.
    I was never angry at “Muslims” in general, that would be fucking stupid.
    What gives YOU THE RIGHT to speak for all Americans???
    You seriously need to apologize.

  • In all fairness, the Crusades wasn’t “just a couple” Christians.

  • Well said!

  • @Galbsadi - Agreed. Wasn’t it almost like the whole population over several centuries? Weren’t there many crusades? 

  • Can’t we all just burn marshmallows together? 

  • @macphoto - good thoughts, Laureen.

  • @crazy2love - Agreed.

     Dan you are usually so unbiased- i was surprised!!
    Americans rejoice every time they win. They do not care about wars in other countries untill one of their own is hurt, then its a massive deal.
    Im saying this as an outsider- another country. We never hear anything from americans untill they themselves are hurt and they they are SO insulted. Doesnt matter if its been happening somewhere else for the last decade, its only an issue if you guys see it.

    Really, you all come across as a very selfish childish country.

    Yeah you do some good- but then you act like you deserve a bloody big trophy. Take a hike and grow up.

    (I know there are good ones of you there!!! )

    Its all about 9/11 – which I am devastated about. People died.
    But do you guys care/think about the london bombings? Bali bombings??- HEAPS of aussie tourists on holiday never ever returned. People in london died too. Its not just about america.

  • @zionlover - Or…. america could take the first step and move onward and upward- why cant americans be the first to be accepting and take the lead for the whole world?
    Instead the majority act like little kids who want everyone else to be nice and accepting first.

  • @Rob_of_the_Sky -  @crazy2love -  @ShimmerBodyCream - Agreed.

    And I like boobies.

  • @PsychoAnne - Americans take the lead on a moral issue?  Ha!  I don’t expect to see that in my lifetime.  Fortunately for me, I plan on getting out of this country in a couple years…and I don’t plan on returning.

  • @TheSutraDude -  GREAT comment. Thank you for posting this.

  • @ofunlo - would be better if I had more than 2 hours sleep and could actually form a complete sentence and type

  • Okay, #1 – those videos of Muslims “celebrating” on 9/11 is a bunch of bullshit. Where is the proof that they were celebrating ON 9/11, ABOUT the 9/11 attacks, the DAY it happened? Those were all old videos. Not from 9/11/01.

    Now, I don’t have anything in defense to say about the American flag burning. I think that was just retarded and people don’t know how to control their anger.

    Keyword: PEOPLE. Don’t know how to control their anger. PEOPLE. Are weak. NOT Muslims, NOT a particular religion, but PEOPLE.

    So everyone needs to stop pointing fingers at a particular race, ethnicity, religion, whatever else, and start pointing fingers at the HUMAN RACE AS A WHOLE. We as HUMAN BEINGS are weak and stupid and cannot control our anger.

    OBVIOUSLY the Muslims that are retaliating and seeking revenge on the idiots that decide to provoke them by doing stupid shit like burning flags or talking smack about America are dumb and making every other Muslim’s reputation bad. It makes me shake my head to see that other Muslims are letting stupid idiots get to their heads. Because these idiots are only trying to look for reasons to provoke the Muslim population and then make them look bad and confirm that Muslims are evil and violent.

    But honestly, can you blame Muslims for reacting this way, in the end? Yes, it is SO much better — and even a PRACTICE in ISLAM (which the Muslims that retaliate obviously are blind to) — to keep your head down and be patient and not seek revenge, and avoid all this idiotic drama. But how about we reverse the role for a minute? You KNOW that every OTHER freaking human being of any other kind of race/ethnicity/religion would probably react the same way, if not worse.

    Now, I’m not defending the handful of idiots that call themselves Muslim that are committing all this terrorism, etc. In fact, I can’t believe how ridiculous anyone can be.

    Honestly, I don’t think this post should be directed at American Muslims. It should be directed towards those crazy people in other countries that call themselves Muslim and need an awakening.

    People need to leave American Muslims alone.

  • @macphoto - gotcha.  I don’t get into these things anymore because no matter how diplomatic or nonconfrontational I am, the backlash is just too much.

  • @PsychoAnne - I completely agree with you. I’m ashamed how childish and selfish my country is…

  • @nephyo - And one huge irony is that Bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein because under Hussein’s rule Iraq was too liberal and eclectic, not to mention Saddam had been placed into power by the U.S. 

  • @ofunlo - I hear you. I dont usually either. The thought had occurred to me that we were bitching and moaning in the wrong place. 

  • I’m not sceptical of Muslims.  I’m skeptical of Jihadists. However, I do wonder why Muslims don’t much more to condemn radical iSLAM.

  • Americans would forgive if Muslims would apologize and be truly sorry.  Radical Islam is unAmerican.  It doesn’t work.  We are a tolerant society built on freedom.  I’ve been in Saudia Arabia and the Middle East.  Theirs is an intolerant society built on oppression.  I haven’t forgotten and neither have most Americans.

  • I understand everything you say in this blog. There is also the very real threat of “sleepers”. They live here for decades sometimes and never make a peep out of line to draw suspicion to themselves and then one day all that changes when they go on a suicide mission. That does not help the case for the Muslims who are no threat. 

    I remember the saying, “Walk softly, but carry a big stick,” by a previous president – I can’t remember which one. That sort of expresses how it makes me feel. I am not for taking away freedoms – especially when it is centered on one particular religion. At the same time, I think it is foolish to pretend that there is no threat. Racial profiling be damned, every single one of the terrorists who downed those planes were all Muslim. Being suspicious of them is a natural reaction. I don’t want to take away their freedoms. But I can’t help but be suspicious. That doesn’t mean I hate them. I don’t even know them. But I will remain suspicious of them. 

    As a matter of fact, it is kinda like this: There is a pit full of snakes and they all look alike. However you know that a few of them are deadly poisonous. Are you going to be suspicious of all of them or not? I would. 

  • @Diva_Jyoti - 

    By the way, I wasn’t even referring to you, you stupid retard. Take your medication you psychotic bitch.

  • @Megan@revelife - Take YOUR psychotropic medication you Schizo, and quit drinking while you’re at it.  It makes you mean ass./

  • It’s been almost an entire decade. How is the hijab thing too soon? I don’t get that at all. Geez, I grew up half my life hearing that Muslims are violent, evil, and America-haters and I don’t see this. Shouldn’t the people who grew up without those thoughts be more accepting of Muslims than my generation? What is going on here?

    There are over 1 billions Muslims worldwide. I would be very surprised if you weren’t still seeing radicals or people who are angry at America’s past actions that just happen to be Muslim. It’s like saying that because there are quite a few different people (at least I’ve seen enough people that it doesn’t seem like their church is small) who show up at Westboro protests saying to thank god for Matthew Shepard’s death that the majority of American Christians support killing homosexuals (sorry, that’s the only example I can think of that they’ve protested that doesn’t relate to 9/11). Just because you see a lot of people doesn’t mean that everyone else supports them or that it even has to do with what you think it has to do with.

    If people can’t accept that Islam does not support this and that the Muslims in our country that want to be free to express themselves and wear what they want 9 years after the attack, then this country has not learned from the attack. They have not learned that people hate us and want to hurt us because of how ignorant we tend to be about other cultures and religions and because we like to try to control others for our own gain without really considering them. I think it’s time we moved on. It’s been almost a decade; dwelling will not help. Our actions are not helping with how other countries view us and it is probably actually pushing many Middle Eastern boys into joining the Taliban (in fact, my history book said it did and had a source for that that I wish I could look at now so I’m pretty certain this is happening). If we really want them to stop believing that we’re such a terrible nation, then why are we still treating Muslims like they just want to hurt us, physically or emotionally? It doesn’t make sense.

  • I think they aught build a Gallows right in the middle of ground zero and hang Bin Laden from it when they catch him, also all the convicted terrorists should be brought there and hung.

    Parents who are proud that their children strapped on bombs and murderd inocent civilians should be deported from their countries and brought to ground zero and hung there too for the murder of their children; for they are cowards who should have strapped the bombs to themselves.

    It doesn’t matter if we did something wrong or not; it doesn’t justify 3,000dead.

    How many human beings does one terrorist have to kill before  execution is justified, 6,000-10,000?

    Would you be so forgiving if it was your wife ,husband,or child that perished at ground zero.

    Look what the Muslims threaten if you burn their holy book- they threaten with death…I say this,”we should arm our Embasies to the teeth and when they come over the walls to take hostages…Machine Gun them all down.”       One more thing; the Muslim religion has had no reformation for hundreds of years and is in dire need of one…when that happens it is my opinion that it can only take place in Blood who’s Blood will it be YOURS or THEIRS?

  • @Galbsadi - Another excellent point.

  • Fuck you, Dan, and your shitty grammar, too.

    lol.. that reminded me of the Wizard of Oz.

  • @uncagedbirds - There’s no good reason to hate.

  • @Galbsadi - lol. I tried

    @Hinase - I think since its such a big country that its kind majority rules. =( there are very smart individuals there that could do some real goodness if they got the chance

  • But I believe in freedom of religion so I think it should be built.

    What kind of religion spits on the graves of nearly 3000 people? Freedom of religion has NOTHING to do with this issue.  It’s a matter of civility, sensitivity and simple good sense.

  • Well, you’re right that I haven’t forgiven them; but only because I never blamed them in the first place. I place the blame on the ones who had a part in the crime, not everyone who practices their religion. If I hated those of every religion that is shared by anyone who has ever hurt me then there would be no one left for me to love, including myself. I’m sure that some people blame Muslims for what happened but I could never really wrap my mind around that.

  • @PsychoAnne - I agree on that but just because the majority rules doesn’t mean they are right lol two different things but alas people don’t realize that… Though you are right..there is always some good people that can do real good in this country..I think we need it. 

  • I would be interested in seeing how many people were actually celebrating on 9/11. It might not have been that many.

    All the numbers I’ve seen for the protests against the Koran burning so far were small; there were 500 people in Kabul, 1000 or something in Indonesia. 500 people really isn’t very many, you can get that many to turn up for anything if you have something fun to do (and protesting, burning things, is fun).

    ESPECIALLY when there are things like this: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001476.html

    That picture on the bottom is golden.

  • Ugh, people annoy me. 

    Thank you for this. While not all appreciate it, I do. And I also understand that it wasn’t Muslim people, it was Al-Qaida so don’t come at me.

  • The same reason why a lot of people are still mad at the Japanese for Pearl Harbor. We’re an extremely nationalistic country. When someone fucks with us, we don’t let it go, and worse – we generalize everyone that we think fucked with us.

  • @ShimmerBodyCream - haha now I am smiling

  • @Hinase - oh i generally think the majority are wrong!! because its mainly mindless idiots who are just followers of some one they think is right

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - ignorant and bigoted – guess you know the definition pretty well, in a personal way

  • @jenigrins - We’re still mad about that?!!! 

    @PsychoAnne - Agreed. I think we need a real honest original thought here. I’m wondering does the world think we are a joke too? I wouldn’t be surprised..

  • @mtngirlsouth - Approximately 84% of all American serial killers are white men. Should the police pull over every white man they see? Should white men be detained at airport security checkpoints and searched thoroughly? I mean, that would be a natural reaction to the thousands of deaths caused by white men, wouldn’t it? Yes, indeed, racial profiling is the proper course of action.

  • Wait… O_O… you’re HITLER… why didn’t you TELLLL LMEEEEEEE?E?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!1111111one

  • @Galbsadi - now I am laughing at you – go get the hell out – maybe you can find a comfortable spot in Afghanistan, or China, or maybe Cuba.  I hear that the Brazilian beaches are nice, and then there is Greenland or wait how about Zimbabwe, nice farmland there (are you white oops sorry don’t go there) I know, how about Vietnam that is perfect.  The Vietnamese kicked the Americans ass you should feel comfortable there.  Wherever you go please don’t come back. Thanks

  • We can not hold all Muslims accountable for what a handful of bad apples that just happen to be Muslims did.

  • @Winsa - Dammit, I was about to reference Hitler.  Godwin’s Law ftw!

  • @AceValentineRocks - I’d love to rec your comment a million times. 

  • I love you, Dan.

    You wrote something that countless people are feeling, and now
    commenters are misinterpreting what you wrote. It’s fun to be part of
    the righteous crowd!  And that’s why the countless people aren’t
    speaking aloud what they feel.

    What I actually think here is irrelevant. What counts is that there are
    certain things that people aren’t allowed to feel.

    I will add this: Do I blame Muslims for 9/11? No. Do I wish some Muslims would stop loudly making this day of American mourning all about them? Yes. I do.

  • @TheSutraDude - And I wish I could rec your comment, again, a million times over.  

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Haha! Nice.

    Dan’s blog entry seemed fair enough. I’m in no position to comment on 9/11, except that I guess the terror-perps in the Muslim community are probably still mad at America for trying to shove their self-righteous “democracy” down their throats.

  • Sorry, but this one pisses me off.

    “I saw a Facebook group recently where a bunch of Muslims were going to
    wear a Hijab or something on 9/11 to show they were Americans too and
    they deserved freedom of religion.  Oddly, I saw a bunch of people on
    Facebook who joined the group that were not even American.”

    Yes, because GOD FORBID there be members of another country that support an ethnic identity from outside of that culture.

    even your phrasing — “a bunch of Muslims” (which you used TWICE) — is fucking offensive. Like you’re rounding them all up and stamping them with the same violent label even though you “intellectually” understand it was a minority of the religion’s followers. “Followers.”

    “Perhaps if you want people to view you favorably, you might want to stop
    burning our flag, stop cheering at the death of our citizens and it
    might be wise to think of other ways to avoid pissing on the graves of
    people at Ground Zero.  Maybe today should just be a day to mourn with
    us at the loss of our citizens.”

    It’s extraordinarily in-group/out-group of you to talk to “Muslims” like that as though they’re all so homogenous that they’re doing these things (unlikely) and reading your blog right after (VERY unlikely). Note the bigoted tone of your writing and possibly consider refining it.

  • @teeraljannah - Feel free to copy and paste what I typed and claim them as your own words or put what I said into your own words. What I said is nothing new. There is no patent or copyright on love, appreciation, or fairness last I heard. 

  • @phantomFive - I disagree.

  • Ok.  I like this post.
    Have not Bibles been burned as well?
    We choose how we express ourselves, and if how we choose to express ourselves is in disregarding the feelings of a majority, that says alot about who we are.  We are not just individuals we are also part of groups, and cultures, and religions, and we as individuals are representative of those groups, and represented by those groups, that we are a part of. 
    We need to make good choices, as individuals and as groups… choices that reflect in action the words from the mouth.

  • @Megan@revelife - She doesn’t sound even remotely psychotic to me, actually, she sounds like one of the few sane people on this xanga place.  This place seems more and more racist every time I come out.

  • @SharonJo - He’s fucking offensive with this blog, that’s for sure.  

    But the scary thing is this…I can’t tell if he gets it that America is not at war with the Muslim religion.  Maybe he just wishes that we were.
    @TheSutraDude - Haw haw, you’re funny!

  • @Automaton_Emotion -  In any other case of danger, it is considered wise to be suspicious of people who fit a certain profile. In the case of murderers, when there is a danger that is exactly what the police do, they follow the profile of the killer. Al-Qaida terrorists are Muslim. Al-Qaida ”Sleepers” are Muslim. That is their profile. The biggest group of violent people who hate Americans are Muslim. How could I not be suspicious? 

    Mind you, I said not to take away their freedoms. I am also not saying to be mean to them. I just said I am suspicious. 

  • @jenigrins - And that is for damn sure nothing to be proud of!  You meant to add that, right?

  • @SisterMom1954 - That’s for damn sure!  Did you see Diva_Jyoti’s blog on this?

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    As a matter of fact, it is kinda like this: There is a pit full of snakes and they all look alike. However you know that a few of them are deadly poisonous. Are you going to be suspicious of all of them or not? I would. 

    Comparing a religion of over a billion people to a “pit of snakes” is shameful.

    I don’t even know them. But I will remain suspicious of them. 

    That’s ignorant.

  • @New_dog - I always read her stuff she is a friend of mine, and I respect her greatly

  • @uncagedbirds - hate just makes more hate. It’s useless.

  • it’s offensive

  • @macphoto - Good thinking — but I’d go even one step farther — it was not even all citizens of a particular country — just a small group of radicals who happen to be Muslim.

  • @SharonJo - Thank you for your comment. 

  • @New_dog - I read it and I did not think very much of it.  Hateful, simplistic and uninformed.  

  • @Galbsadi - the Crusades were about taking back CHRISTIAN lands from invading Muslim Turks. Christianity had been in the Middle East for centuries before Islam was even founded and it was the actions of militant Muslims that changed the face of religion in that region.

  • @Hinase - one of the purposes of the Crusades was to retake CHRISTIAN lands from the Muslim Turks that invaded. The Muslims invaded the Christian Middle East – not the other way around.

  • @JJ_Ames - You’re right. I remember reading that..as I read historical non-fiction books based in that period..not too much but I do. But you’re right. 

  • i dont think that what happened on 9/11 was something to be taken lightly at all.
    we need to channel this passion and move ahead in memory of our fallen friends and family
    not remain locked in hatred, ignorance and revenge

    we need real change, not empty, superficial sound-byte promises of leaders on all sides

    i think the world needs to grow up and stop thinking that revenge is a solution.
    perhaps it’s best if we just burn everything (theoretically speaking) and start again.
    for me-  i want to burn my fears
    burn my ignorance
    burn my hate
    burn my pride
    burn my ego
    burn my stupidity
    grow a pair
    man-up
    face the truth. we are all different. we need to move on!

    i think the precondition to burning ANY book must be that it be read end to end first

  • @Automaton_Emotion - Yes, I know. And there have been white converts who turned into terrorists too. I never said they all look alike. I said they were all Muslims. And that I am suspicious of them, and why. And what suspicion is and what it is not. 

  • What really bothers me is the double standard applied to Islam. If someone commits a crime and turns out to be Muslims their religion is quickly separated from their act but if a “Christian” does something wrong their religion is tar-babied to the act. It was front page news today in Chicago about how Muslims have been treated poorly since 9/11 but the vast majority of religiously based hate-crimes in America are still directed at Jews – why isn’t THAT on the front page? Additionally, Christians are mistreated and killed in many if not most Muslims countries but the media only chides us for not being more tolerant of Islam.

  • @mtngirlsouth - What do Muslims look like, exactly?

    You do know that there are Arabic, Asian, Black, White and a veritable rainbow of Muslims in this crazy world, right?

    So, again… What does a Muslim look like? Who do you aim your suspicion at?

    Muslim is NOT a race. Islam is an ideology which Muslims adhere to.

  • @JJ_Ames - Amen! 

  • @mtngirlsouth - most of the terrorist actions directed at Russia are through white Muslims. A white group of Muslims who we supported in the war in Bosnia was linked to the 9/11 attacks.

  • @mtngirlsouth - How about we try this one on for size? The terrorists that bombed the World Trade Center towers on September 11, 2001 were NOT Muslims.

    That’s a more truthful statement than any.

  • @SharonJo - I actually know a lot of Muslims. I have eaten at the same table with a lot of Muslims. I’ve asked and learned that some place a plate of food in the middle of the table as an offering to God. I have performed music professionally with a lot of Muslims. Each and every one of them is a sweet and wonderful person. They have all respected that I am a Buddhist. We don’t talk about religion anyway. We hang out together in various groups together with Christians, Jews, Hindus and Atheists. You know how we often greet each other? Before someone gets a chance to say “Hey how are you?” Someone breaks out with “Did you hear the one about the….” We love sharing jokes with one another. The “Hey how are you”s can always wait for a good joke. My Muslim friends hold me in the highest regard simply because I am another human being. Much like Jesus who threw merchants out of places of worship and turned over tables on which their wares were displayed, I want to say…WTF is wrong with you ignorant bigoted people! Get the hell out of here! My father was a Christian Minister who still today remains one of the most tolerant and educated people I know. He taught me that everyone is worthy of respect and every religion and race is worthy of respect. When I told him I was converting to Buddhism he told me he couldn’t follow but he respected what I was doing and why. He stood up during the Civil Rights movement and made me understand why black people are so wonderful. Were he alive today he’d be doing the same but for Muslims. Fortunately he taught his son well. Nothing pisses me off more than injustice. Second comes the ignorance of my own countrymen because it leaves me in a position of having to apologize and explain where before there was no apology or explanation needed. 

  • @Automaton_Emotion - you are right it is not a “racial” issue it is a cultural and ideological issue.  Is the ideology of Islam a threat to democracy in the West?  Historically have Muslims countries supported democracy? currently do Muslim countries encourage democracy?

    Does Islam represent the cultural ideals that we adhere to?  Tolerance, human rights, equal opportunity, and tolerance towards women and minorities.  Is Sharia law compatible with our codes of justice?

    Tough questions lost in all the hand wringing and emotionalism. 

  • @Automaton_Emotion - The terrorists would have said differently. 

  • @valis10 - Thank you. 

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - but these weren’t AMERICANS doing this!!! *smh* 

  • This was an interesting but misguided and ignorant post. The title itself is an offensive gross generalization.
    Stick to pictures and questions Dan.

    @ShimmerBodyCream - Lol

    @Teufels_Hofnarr - 
    @Teufels_Hofnarr - Exactly.

    @macphoto - I agree, great comment.

    *Xanga’s Batman Out*

  • BUT THOSE PEOPLE BURNING THE FLAG ARE NOT AMERICANS!!!!
    THAT IS WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT FRIKIN GETTING!!! WTF!!?!?!?!

    seriously?!

    Perhaps if you want people to view you favorably, you might want to stop
    burning our flag, stop cheering at the death of our citizens and it
    might be wise to think of other ways to avoid pissing on the graves of
    people at Ground Zero.  Maybe today should just be a day to mourn with
    us at the loss of our citizens.

    WHY THE FUCK would THEY care if they are viewed favorably?!?! it’s your FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS who want to be viewed favorably, because they did NOTHING WRONG!!!

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!??!?!?! UGH you make me sick!!

  • @Automaton_Emotion - What part of the Qu’ran were they going against? This is the part they were going by:

    2.39. But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.

    2.190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

    2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

    2.192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    2.193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

    2.216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

    2.257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

    3.141. Allah’s object also is to purge those that are true in Faith and to deprive of blessing Those that resist Faith.

    3.151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

    3.157. And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

    3.158. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.

    3.169. Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

    4.14. But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

    4.74. Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory – Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

    4.76. Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

    4.101. When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

    5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

    5.51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

    5.57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).

    5.60. Say: “Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah. those [people of the Book (Jews and Christians)] who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!”

    5.64. The Jews say: “(Allah)’s hand is tied up.” Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

    5.72. They do blaspheme who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

    5.73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

    5.82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

    6.115. The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

    7.96. If the people of the towns had but believed and feared Allah, We should indeed have opened out to them (All kinds of) blessings from heaven and earth; but they rejected (the truth), and We brought them to book for their misdeeds.

    7.97. Did the people of the towns feel secure against the coming of Our wrath by night while they were asleep?

    7.98. Or else did they feel secure against its coming in broad daylight while they played about (care-free)?

    8.12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.“

    8.13. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger. If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.

    8.14. Thus (will it be said): “Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire.“

    8.15. O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.

    8.16. If any do turn his back to them on such a day – unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

    8.17. It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah. when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).

    8.18. That, and also because Allah is He Who makes feeble the plans and stratagem of the Unbelievers.

    8.30. Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.

    8.36. The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;

    8.38. Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

    8.39. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

    8.41. And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

    8.55. For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.

    8.65. O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

    8.67. It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.

    9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    9.6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. And then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

    9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

    9.14. Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

    9.15. And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

    9.23. O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

    9.28. O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean;

    9.29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    9.30. The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    9.38. O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.

    9.39. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.

    9.51. Say: “Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector”: and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.

    9.60. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:

    9.61. They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).

    9.62. (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime: No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.

    9.64. Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-

    9.65. To dwell therein for ever: no protector will they find, nor helper.

    9.73. (With the result) that Allah has to punish the Hypocrites, men and women, and the Unbelievers, men and women, and Allah turns in Mercy to the Believers, men and women: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    9.111. Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

    9.123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

    10.4. To Him will be your return- of all of you. The promise of Allah is true and sure. It is He Who beginneth the process of creation, and repeateth it, that He may reward with justice those who believe and work righteousness; but those who reject Him will have draughts of boiling fluids, and a penalty grievous, because they did reject Him.

    22.19. These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord), – for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.

    25.52. Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur’an).

    33.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    33.28. O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

    33.29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    33.1. O Prophet! Fear Allah, and hearken not to the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites: verily Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

    33.8. That (Allah) may question the (custodians) of Truth concerning the Truth they (were charged with): And He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty.

    33.119. O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed).

    33.123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

    47.4. Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah.s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

    48.29. Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.

    54.1. The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.

    54.39. “So taste ye My Wrath and My Warning.”

    54.40. And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

    55.26. All that is on earth will perish:

    55.35. On you will be sent (O ye evil ones twain!) a flame of fire (to burn) and a smoke (to choke): no defence will ye have:

    55.37. When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes red like ointment:

    55.41. (For) the sinners will be known by their marks: and they will be seized by their forelocks and their feet.

    55.43. This is the Hell which the Sinners deny:

    55.44. In its midst and in the midst of boiling hot water will they wander round!

    60.4. … there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever, unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone.

    65.4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

    66.9. O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge (indeed).

    72.23. “Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever.”

    98.6. Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Yeah now quote just some of the passages from the Bible that can be interpreted in fucked up ways when taken at face value why don’t you. But we’ve had this discussion already. I’ve also told you that Albania, A MUSLIM COUNTRY, not only harbored Jews during WWII but protected them like no other country in the Balkans or Europe. Not one Jew who sought shelter in Albania was harmed and many Jewish families decided to stay there after the war. Did that pass through one of your ears and out the other? Apparently it did.

  • Stick to pictures and questions Dan.
    http://chosen-defined.xanga.com/711797894/fear/

  • @TheSutraDude - And all I was saying is that I am suspicious. I am EXTREMELY suspicious of people who say they are Christians also, but for very different reasons. I do not think they will try some sort of act of terror, but they are definitely a group I do not trust off hand. 

  • @Mouster - wow really? this is like a personal threat to me. our blood or theirs??? WTF i DOUBT my BEST FUCKING FIREND is gonna kill anybody hes just a normal fucking american guy like anyone one else but he just so happens to follow allah, and yet there are people like you saying THIS SHIT?! wtf is wrong with you?!

  • @AceValentineRocks - well said

  • @darkarin88 - I’m not sure your point friend. Even if they are not americans they are still people and people should be treated with respect no matter what religion. extremists should be punished. but like I said rage does not discriminate. So I understand why people are having a hard time with muslims as a whole. Same with the christians. One groups of nutty christians does one outrageous thing and I hear tons of people bad mouthing the christians. Well that’s not all of us. When it comes right down to it people are people and should still be treated with love and respect no matter what. : )

  • @TheSutraDude - and where in the Quran would you find an equivalent to the Sermon on the Mount?  just wondering

  • I watched your video…the one of the muslems celebrating in the streets on 9/11/01,,,at least you indicated it was that day. We are supposed to be an “enlightened, well informed country.  Televisions in every house, most with available computers..radios in our cars…cell phones, and i pads that have news available to us 24 hours a day.  We live in a country, at least I think we do, where we have a right to publicize our opinions both for and against any issue.  Now turn that upside down and wrong side out.  What IF we lived in a country that we could be shot if we made a statement that supported the views of the opinions of the enemies of the state?  What if we were fed the lies the Iraqi’s were by the minister of information that the Americans weren’t within a 100 miles of the airport when the Americans were all over it…alll in it.  What have they been told about America…for all we know they have been told we eat our babies for breakfast.  Unless I visited there, knew the people, the common people, I can’t say why they hate Americans so.  As for those who demonstrated 9/11/10?  I would imagine they would be a bit angry about our burning their “way”.  How about after 9/11/01 when people would just walk up and shoot them…oh and lets not forget the American that slit the throat of a cab driver just because he was muslem just last week.  We are not saints…and from your earlier entry (true though it may be) about a man killing 6 people because his eggs weren’t cooked the way he wanted them…they probably have reason to think we are crazy.

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - are you sure you meant to reply to me?? cause thats what I was saying.

    “When it comes right down to it people are
    people and should still be treated with love and respect no matter what.
    : )”

    I was pointing out that the post was lumping every one together. I have a lot of very close friends who are Muslim, and while every one should be treated with respect, my friends are NOT the ones burning the flags, yet for some reason in this post those people are simply reffered to as “they”. As in those Muslims. When in reality it should be those terrorists, bigots, crazies…WHATEVER. It is not our American citizens who are doing that BULLSHIT, so act like it is? And to add on to that, it is not ALL MUSLIM people who are doing that bullshit, so why act like it is?? That’s what I was saying. Only, I got a bit heated so it wasn’t very clear. : )  This is one of the things that I take extremely personally.

  • i agree that many Americans have not forgiven Muslims(do they mean terrorists who claim…?) for the attack of 9/11- and that many Americans experienced their first real contact with the Muslim community on 9/11.
     
    i don’t think i or anyone else -certainly those of us living in this corner of the country, will likely ‘forget’
     - i also have no need to revisit these images
     
    i want to believe this post is here to genuinely express your feelings on the subject, but history tells me there’s a pretty good chance it’s about clicks-or at very least, that’s what folks may take away - so – since I’ve spent one or two and now read the comments - i may as well mention that – like in the attention generated by the Terry Jones stuff, the stuff people put out … well , guess i’ll just mention – “unclean‘ comes w/ responsibility
    and i too am certainly guilty-and am certainly not about boundaries – just sayin’…
    i’m glad we’re just xanga and  the AP wire doesn’t run w/ the stuff here …
     

  • @darkarin88 - Ohhh. Okay. Now I understand. I thought you were telling me “hey these people aren’t americans we should hate them. they aren’t people.”

    Don’t feel bad. I am easily confused. X)

  • @rebekah1191 - you were joking, right? … right? …. you really think all muslims hate america?  .   .      . …….

    I still hope God opens your eyes.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Ah, yes… And the Bible doesn’t relegate non-believers to Hell, where they will burn in the fires for all eternity? Heh.

    I could post a vast amount of the King James version of the Bible, or any other of your choice, pointing out some of the passages that equally misguided “Christians” follow. Heck, what about the Westboro Baptist Church and their interpretation of the Bible? Would you have us believe that their interpretation is representative of all Christians?

    I won’t pretend to know exactly what the verses you posted were intended to mean. I am not a religious scholar, nor am I a Muslim. I would, however, direct you to FifthLMNT’s feature, specifically Ask the Muslims: Eleven and Twelve by ArabianAdventure, which answers this exact issue.

    Go and read the series. Or continue spouting about racial profiling. It’s your choice.  

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - nutty Christians vs nutty Muslims?  Lets see suicide bombings?   Muslims 100, who knows maybe a thousand, Christians 0.   Lets just lump them all together; be-headings, lashings, stoning Muslims = numerous Christians = 0.  and don’t get all historical I am talking about current events.  There is no American/Christian or European equivalent to the Taliban, the Saudi Moral Police or the Iranian morality thugs.

  • @nephyo - ”We woudl understand this well if someone were to argue that All Christians were to blame for the crazy few who in the name of Christianity blow up abortion clinics. Those are extremists. Those are the crazies.” you said, as though it has never happened.

    i for one am tired of being the villain because i am a white male. im sick to death of it. if i say, “this may not be the best location for a mosque” i am suddenly an evil racist islamaphobe pervert that has no problem with a strip club in the same spot. did i say that? no, no i did not. did i say “i hate muslims”? again no. but after seeing all of the lies(reference this paragraph) and all the phoney plays to emotion, i have lost a LOT of respect for the islamic community. a LOT.

    1) no one is infringing on anyones first amendment rights by protesting the mosque. the first amendment clearly states “CONGRESS SHALL PASS NO LAW regarding the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free excersise thereof…” emphasis mine, and clearly needed. the people planing the cordoba initiative are not so stupid as to think that civil outcry is tantimount to congressional action, this means that by framing it as a first amendment issue, they are being intentionally deceptive. say goodbye to my respect.

    2) i have seen SEVERAL people on this site and others who self-identifiy as muslims directly compare burning the koran to 9-11, saying things like “Would anyone really be surprised if Arabs  all Muslims take deep offence, just like Americans took very deep offence after 9/11?” <— this is cut and pasted, it is word for word.  say goodbye to my respect.

    3) i have been villified and had my intelligence insulted by ads of little children holding signs saying “im a muslim, please don’t hate me”. who are you to tell me who i do and do not hate? who is anyone other than myself to dictate to me what i DO feel. say goodbye to my respect.

    4) again my intelligence being insulted, i am told “you need to understand that these are extremists and they do not represent everyone”(as though i could not make that distinction myself), while in the same breath saying that it is america’s fault for her overseas policy(double standard much?) and yet, not one call by these people to the offenders to realize that not all americans hate “foreigners” say goodbye to my respect

    5) building off of 4) people say “how would you like it if people did that with christians or americans..”  uhmm.. hello, i’ve been hearing that shit ALL my FUCKING LIFE! what’s really great is when the people possiting this novel idea that christians, americans and caucasions have never even considered what it may be like to be unduely villified, are people who DO IT ALL THE FUCKING TIME!! you may as well say “how would you like it if i said to you what i said to you last week?” at this point my respect is so far gone you couldn’t find it with the hubble telescope.

    to quote professor hubert farnsworth “i don’t want to live on this planet anymore.”

  • Remember, Dan, that you once admitted that you aren’t keen enough to understand poetry. 

    What makes you think you never overlooked a number of vital bits of information when thinking about this subject? 

  • @Automaton_Emotion - Listen, I know you like to have the last word, so I will give it to you when you respond to this. There is no branch of Homeland security put together to watch Christian extremists. Extremist Christians do not represent a threat of terror to America. Extremist Christians do not strap bombs to their own children and send them on a suicide mission. Extremist Christians do not hijack plains. Extremist Christians do not have a united holy war against the American way of life. Extremest Muslims do. Homeland Security came into existence because of Muslim terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far, all the terrorists have been Muslim. They represent a real threat. That is a simple and plain truth. I remain suspicious. 

  • @valis10 - EMOTIONAL killings are almost the same as physical deaths. Do you know how many gays kill themselves because of some extremist christian riots and beatings? Its a hell of a lot. Single parents. Drug addicts. Everyone feels the wrath of a extremist christian. I am a christian myself, but I love the person not the action. Yes muslim extremist’s actions are awful. I will agree with you on that, but that does not mean that all muslims are bad. extremists should be punished. The innocent should not.

  • @valis10 - If you want to know the origination of the Sermon on the Mount, read the Dhammapada. In there you’ll find the Sermon on the Mount spoken 1,000 years earlier. Nowhere in either will you find words justifying vengeance and hatred. 

    And I was not pointing to the sermon on the mount in my statement. I was pointing to the many statements in the Bible that are interpreted as acceptable violence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Swords and fire spoken of even in the Book of Revelations are not meant to apply to world events. They are allusions to what one must do to reach true self. 

  • @PsychoAnne - Isn’t there 2000 mosques in America allowed under freedom of religion? How many churches and synagogues are in Saudi Arabia? I’ll wait for the count. Also, didn”t America liberate Kuwait from the clutches of Saddam Hussein and help the Afghans kick the Soviets out of their country? And what about helping the Bosnians and Kosovars against Serbian aggression? Yes, I’m still waiting for reciprocity.

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    Anyone with a search engine can find a ton of scary sounding passages from the Bible and take them out of context.

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - I have no idea what an “emotional killing” is since I and I alone am in control of my emotions. 

    Christian riots and beatings?  I am Googling that now waiting, waiting, waiting  damn usually Google is SO fast you know 50,000 responses in 1.3 seconds……..still waiting.  Are you sure “Christian riots and beatings”  Now there have been Christian riots in Nigeria usually coinciding with Muslim riots but still waiting for Google……………………………………………………………

  • @zionlover - 

    Are you trying to say Saudi Arabia is the standard the United States should hold itself to when protecting religious liberty?

    Yeah, you’re a moron.

  • @zionlover - America put Saddam Hussein into power. He was meant to be a puppet. Saddam Hussein was also an enemy of Osama Bin Laden because Iraq was too eclectic.

    It doesn’t matter how any other country treats its citizens or those of other ethnicities or other religious faiths. I live in the United States of America, a country founded largely by Freemasons to allow freedom of religious belief. If I want to live in a bigoted country I will move. 

  • @valis10 - I am truly sorry you hate muslims so much. But I suppose ignorance is bliss. Christian stuff usually isn’t published. I know more than a few people who have been harassed by extremist Christians. You clearly do not understand anything about psychiatric disorders, anxiety, depression or bullying. I am talking making someone feel so bad about themselves that they kill themselves. Love the sinner. Hate the sin. I know that’s what they preach. I would just like more of them to do that.

  • @valis10 - Try Googling Yugoslavian ethnic cleansing. You should come up with a lot of hits about Christians who slaughtered men, women and children, buried Muslims in mass graves, burned Muslim communities, raped Muslim women before shooting them. 

  • @valis10 - 

    I do. I kick their ass on a daily basis.

  • @TheSutraDude - Buddhism has good moral teachings but has no God.  Jesus declared himself to be the Son of God.  I will stand with Jesus.

    Of all people on earth Jesus stood for the truth.  He castigated the Pharisees and advocated for the poor and the sick, Jesus turned his face against evil everywhere, but above everything else Jesus taught us how to love. 

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - hate Muslims?

  • @TheSutraDude - that was political and not Christian and you know it.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Ok. As long as you are suspicious of everyone but let me share something. There are indeed horrible people in every walk of life. It is however better, while not being naive which you are not, to not mistrust everyone. I am a Buddhist yet I would never tell you to trust anyone who approached you just because that person said he or she is Buddhist. That doesn’t make all Buddhists bad. In America we have to give every single person the benefit of the doubt. As I’ve said, I have many Muslim friends and I believe that if you joined us for dinner one night you’d have a great time and walk away feeling you’ve made new friends. It’s not terrorists I support. It’s these friends of mine that I would die for and chances are you would too but we wouldn’t have to because these people would probably die for you or I first. That is true friendship and if these were the only Muslims on Earth who were good people I would stand up for them nonetheless.  

  • @valis10 - I am so confused about what we are even arguing about anymore. I am saying muslims and christians that take things to extremes and out of context are wrong in what they are doing. I am a christian. and I love muslims. Shit I attempt to love everyone. Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you were arguing that muslims are evil and christians are the only right ones. My apologizes if I misunderstood. 

    @TheSutraDude - Ahh. You remembered the word I could not. Thank you. I do not function well on this little of sleep.

  • @valis10 - And how is that political and not Christian? Where does it say in the Bible that Christians are supposed to look away when neighbors are being slaughtered? You could attempt to make a similar argument that the anti-civil rights movement was political or even economic and not racist. “A Negro in my store is bad for business.” “If Negroes can vote they’ll take over the country.” The kinds of people who made those statements just *happened* also to be Christians. Nice try but I attended church when I grew up and heard all that shit. 

  • @valis10 - You apparently have not read much about Buddhism if you really believe that Jesus was the first or the last to make such a proclamation. Let me ask you something. Have you been able to make that proclamation? If not then you would have no way to know what you are talking about. You are like someone describing Italy who has not actually been in Italy but has only looked at a map of Italy that someone who has been there drew. I would think long and hard about that before you believe you’ve been saved. 

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - I am not arguing for or against Christian or Muslim.  Only God knows and can ultimately judge.  Will you follow Mohamed or Jesus?  Every day as I drive to work I pray that I can love everyone I meet that day.  Do I know what religion that person is? no, do I care; no.

    Islam is a culture as well as a religion.  Do you understand the difference?  Just because I say I am against Islam does not mean that I am hateful of people in my life. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Nice assumption. Care to try again?

    @TheSutraDude - America helped put Saddam’s party in power, not him. He was a brutal dictator just the same.

    Yes, we do live in a free country. My point exactly. Let’s be grateful.

  • @mtngirlsouth - See, this is why we clash so much.

    You said, “Listen, I know you like to have the last word, so I will give it to you when you respond to this.”
        Actually, I just keep hoping that you will see that, at the very least, the way you phrase things could be improved upon. You are not careful with your statements and quite regularly wield a tree trunk when a mere stick would suffice. The things you say are read by others, many of whom agree with you wholesale. As such, you are in a position to influence others. For the love of all things good, do something responsible with that influence and refrain from spreading hate, which is what condoning racial profiling is.

    You said, “There is no branch of Homeland security put together to watch Christian extremists.”
        Homeland Security absolutely has an eye on extremist Christian groups and all forms of domestic terrorism, such as those who attack abortion clinics and sabotage build sites, etc. Here’s one example from the Christian Post. That is Homeland Security’s entire function; to safeguard America, whether it be from international or domestic sources. Janet Napolitano, Homeland Security Secretary, certainly believes that Christian extremists are a threat to America presently.

    You said, “Extremist Christians do not strap bombs to
    their own children and send them on a suicide mission. Extremist
    Christians do not hijack plains. Extremist Christians do not have a
    united holy war against the American way of life.”
    Hutaree – Christian militia that adhered to the Christian Patriot movement. Nine members were arrested in March of 2010 for a planned holy war against the local, state, and federal government whom they believed to be supporters of the Antichrist. They plotted to kill local law enforcement and politicians with explosives and guns.

    Here is a video of a Christian extremist group of Crusaders who hijacked a plane just a few days ago. Granted, it happened in Mexico. But Christians are Christians, right? I mean, they’re all the same, aren’t they?

       And, well… The Westboro Baptist Church is certainly a Christian extremist group waging a holy war on America who sees absolutely nothing wrong with involving their young children in the fray. If you prefer, we could talk about the Branch Davidians down in Waco, Texas who slaughtered their own children in the seige, their personal holy war against America. The KKK has also long considered themselves a Christian organization and we can all recall the heinous acts they committed before, during, and after the civil rights movement. In fact, their website declares, “Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America!” Nevermind the number of Christian extremists who have bombed abortion clinics and murdered abortion providers.

    You said, “Homeland Security came into existence because
    of Muslim terrorists.”
        The Department of Homeland Security’s statement: “The Department of Homeland Security has a vital mission: to secure the
    nation from the many threats we face    . This requires the dedication of
    more than 230,000 employees in jobs that range from aviation and border
    security to emergency response, from cybersecurity analyst to chemical
    facility inspector. Our duties are wide-ranging, but our goal is clear -
    keeping America safe.    ”

    While the DHS was established in the aftermath of the September 11th attacks, it is very clear that they are not solely tasked with the pursuit of Muslim terrorists.

    You said, “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far, all
    the terrorists have been Muslim.”
        And this is a prime example of what I said initially about how you phrase things. Ted Kaczynski, the KKK, Patty Hearst, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, George Metesky… You get the idea. Clearly, not all terrorists are Muslims. Perhaps if you had said “All of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks on the WTC claimed to be Muslims.” Alas, you did not.

    “This is the simple and plain truth.” EXTREMISTS have the potential to be terrorists and are not representative of the whole of those who adhere to a particular ideology. You should not fear Muslims any more than you do your Christian neighbors.

  • @valis10 - I never even heard you mention islam. You have just been fighting that extremist christians have done no wrong, which is silly because clearly they have.

  • @TheSutraDude - I have been to Italy thank you and to many other places around the world.  and you are a Buddhist using the term ‘saved”??   ha I want to say f….you, but won’t go there.  Go ask the Dali Lama if YOU are saved…..let me know what he says.

  • hahahahahah

    This is too fucking funny.
    Do you realize how many people have been killed at the hands of Americans and governments directly supported by the United States?
    Pull your head out of your ass and understand that American Exceptionalism is bullshit.  The loss of life on 9/11 was an undeniable tragedy, but it is hardly the first time people will die who don’t deserve it, nor will it be the last time. Stop acting like it was this earth halting event that justifies more killing. 

    Also, to all the people saying “there are no christian terrorists”:
    Presumably, most of the people in the US military identify as Christians. QED.Oh wait, I’m sorry…I forgot that they wear uniforms so it’s okay for them to blow up civilians.  Whoops….silly me…..

  • @zionlover - 

    If Saudi Arabia does something wrong, doesn’t mean we should too.

    Didn’t your mother ever tell you that two wrongs don’t make a right?

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - I am not defending extremist Christians unless they are extreme in their love for their fellow man.  But love does not mean capitulation.  

  • it is 2 am and I am still sitting at this stupid computer:  good night!

  • i see where you’re coming from, dan, but you may want to try to present the other side as well so you don’t sound racist and ignorant…

  • Clearly, I can’t speak for all Americans but I never held Muslims responsible for 9/11. I held terrorists responsible the fact that those terrorists happened to be Muslim doesn’t really matter to me. Personally, I can’t really forgive anyone who would kill for any other reason than self-defense.

    Personally I’d rather see something built along the lines of promoting cultural and religious tolerance than any place of worship. I like to believe if people made the effort to understand each other better then there would be a lot less hate in the world.

  • WHY can’t we all just forget about 9/11? It was one terrorist attack. You know how many times things get blown up in other places? A lot. Once in ten years here, and not that many people died. We only respond emotionally to it because we were trained to. And it’s been used as an excuse to kill a bunch of other people. Like, 100,000 Iraqi civilians. Something doesn’t seem fair here.

  • grieving painb

  • its is grossly unfair to the muslims.

    those evil people who did 9-11 arent proper muslims..they are freaking terrorist who just made use of their religion to start this war.

    same thing applies to other religions.

    ive muslim friends who are lovely peaceful people and i absolutely hate this post. this is total rubbish.

  • @Hinase - I think you’d be surprised the smoldering resentment felt by a lot of people.

  • @jenigrins - Wow..talk about holding a grudge…geez..

  • @valis10 - I’m headed to Europe.  Next time, do us both a favor and don’t assume that I’d be going just anywhere.

  • as an american muslim, i just wanted to say that this post saddens me.  however, some of the comments from the more educated users inspire me.  thank you to those who don’t stereotype muslims.  You can’t stereotype over a billion people.  Many muslims around the world are equally sad about the loss of life and the display of hatred and violence on 9/11.  Then there are also muslims who are unfortunately filled with hatred and evil. 

     It is these hateful people that the average peace-loving muslim can’t even forgive.  They’ve ruined our lives.  They’ve given us, a billion people, the negative stereotype. They’re the reason why we get uncomfortable stares and live our lives in fear of harassment.  They’re the reason why I’m questioning why I even need to be forgiven.
    Of course, it’s easy to point fingers and place blame.  Let’s first educate ourselves on the roots and symptoms of this hatred.  It is not normal for muslims (or anybody) to be this hateful.  Poverty and brainwashing from a few perverted extremists can turn people into terrorists.  Then when the bombs begin to drop, a whole nation can turn into “terrorists” trying to defend their country.  Every bomb we drop in the Middle East only creates more hate.  When did we think it was good idea to fight violence with more violence? 

  • @teeraljannah - thanks

  • I don’t see you talking about all Muslims, I see your point, this makes sense. I don’t like the Terrorists that did this act, I do believe that these Muslim terrorists have caused a sleuth of reasons for ignorant people across America and the world to pick on Muslims in general though and that’s not right. I have problems from time to time but then I have to remember that it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around and not all people are the same in their belief system even if it’s in the same religion. The people we judge ill of could be the same people that save our lives.

  • Wow, your posts are usually interesting but are becoming more and more racist.  I get where you’re coming from though.  There are many Muslims who, because of the actions of one man, are condemning the whole of America and this might be due to how it’s potrayed in the media (i.e. they don’t usually mention that most Americans are against it, I think).  So some Americans condemning the whole of Islam for the sake of some extremists is understandable too.. but that doesn’t make either of these parties right.

  • I don’t hate Muslims and I know the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists or even terrorists…..but I DO remember seeing MANY Muslims celebrating in the streets in my town when this happened……that is one thing I will not forget. 

  • I can’t believe this.

    @Rob_of_the_Sky - Perfect.

  • What are you talking to Muslims as a group for? Do you see the shitheadedness here? You’re a fuckin’ bigot. Shut up.

  • I guess I should ask, do you mourn the loss of their citizens?

    i kinda rarely comment as i enjoy your controversial rants (i mean that’s the point of a blog right) but you might want to post a whole news clip article as well – as it pertains more to the political situation in palestine/israel then muslim terrorism per say. Your post is a bit more expected and typical then profound needless to say – BUT rightfully so, it’s safe to note it’s a soft spot, as I’m sure the muslim community wouldn’t be too psyched about americans building a church next to a site we bombed the shit out of. However, 911 is a VERY controversial subject (i’ll avoid any conspiracy theories) – but it’s easy to point fingers as one would be a fool to base our opinions solely based on what we hear in the fucking media. how can a country declare a so called ‘war on terrorism’ (this was way before 911) and not expect the otherside to get lucky? i mean what the fuck did we find in iraq in relation to this?

    People need to wake the fuck up, and do some more research (not directed at you) before they take to the streets and give muslims a dirty fucking eye. Most of you weren’t around when WWI and WWII was going on, but let’s assume we’ve evolved as people since then and can learn from the dumb shit we did back then to each other because we had the decent of ‘the opposing side’ – if we’re so hell bent on celebrating ‘diversity’ in america. i’m from fucking new york city myself and i can say we support the troops and blah blah blah, my friend died blah blah but guess what? am i physically fighting the war? talk to a soldier that’s been stationed out there for a minute and you might hear something entirely different. but i guess that’s the difference between being a journalist and a blogger right?

    “In fact, it looked like a group of people that were happy about the death of Americans.”

    How can it be ‘in fact’, and ‘look like a movement’. the million man march is a fucking movement, not a group of palestinians jumping around saying yay they deserved that shit. should i find a news clip of bummed out muslims who mourn the tragedy to support my point of view? i swear we are the most spoiled country in the world, and instead of being grateful for it, we still feel the need to talk shit on other countries and faiths without thinking twice about it. and since the USA likes to be the so-called world power to enforce peace on everybody, the one thing everyone needs to remember is that the fact that we can sit at home typing on our fucking computers a opinion on fucking xanga in perfect comfort is a sole result of a lot of fucking bad shit we do to other people in other countries. some might call it spreading democracy and peace, but guess what, other people might think we’re the biggest dickheads in the world. the koran and the bible share more similarities and differences so chill the fuck out and enjoy your lives, as these posts just make a lot of people either pissed off, or just further perpetuates the hatred towards a very large community that only a few people were responsible for. i applaud you for not being afraid to spread your views as i know you have a lot of followers, and bless the people and the families of them that have past from 911, but i think this post was missing just a few small points that might have made this rant a bit more insightful.

  • @bamzilicious26 - Perfect. I did have someone once tell me in a comment that she saw a video proving that the Muslims cheering was from a completely different video. There was even a video of Muslim children being shown to celebrate 9/11 but it turned out they were at a party and had been given some candy and that’s actually why they were cheering. It’s scary people believe everything they hear. You don’t even know what to believe.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Oh dear. haha. I can’t believe I’ve just seen this. I sound like a broken record now but it’s people like yourself that make me do this: out, of, context.

    eg. “55.26. All that is on earth will perish:” What do you think that means, like, kill everyone and make them perish? That is talking about the Day of Judgement and the end times. ie. Everything on Earth, mountains, people, everything will be gone. The point of that verse is the next one following it. “And the Face of your Lord will remain, full of bounty and honour.” What’s so terrorist-like about that?

    This is just one verse. You have brought in completely unrelated verses. At least limit it to the actual fighting verses so that we can dissect them properly for you and show you how off you are. But you’ve brought in verses that aren’t even close to being relevant.

    Nice job. If only more people knew how to… copy and paste.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Thank you. I’ve loved pretty much all your comments here.

    @lunaticlama - yep.

    @Automaton_Emotion - I’ve loved your comments, too. :)

  • @valis10 - My use of Italy was as a metaphor. I do not follow the ways or the teachings of the Dali Lama. I grew up in a family of Christian Ministers and studied the Bible while most kids were reading Dr. Seuss so say f…you if you’d like. Doesn’t bother me a bit. What does bother me is blind religious ignorance. 

  • The problem is that we take a small group of Muslims (or large groups or multiple groups) and say that they represent how all Muslims feel.
    And in my mind, that would be like someone looking at videos of the Westboro Baptist Church’s picketing and saying “Damn, Christians are terrible people.” Or “Damn, people from Kansas are homophobic bigots.” Or, depending on how much you know, “Damn, this God person is totally cruel and intolerant.”

  • Forgiven…Muslims?  Should 23% of the world’s population be held accountable for the actions of a few hundred extremists?

  • @dvstyleZ - THANK YOU.

    Dan, first of all, the celebration videos aren’t something to base points on. Why? That’s because as we’ve seen, they can’t be proven to have anything to do with 9/11. I know quite a few Muslims and surprisingly enough, I’ve never been invited to a 9/11 anniversary party. Yeah, shocking.

    Secondly, it is nothing to do with emotion, when we discuss the “GZ Mosque” issue. Why? Because there are people, in fact a whole group of them, who were directly affected by 9/11′s attacks, that are not only neutral, but supporting the centre being built. This “emotion” and “sensitivity” business is just a cloak with which to hide some other sentiments. I’ll leave it to people to decide what those sentiments are.

    I’d like to see this Facebook group. Firstly, if a Muslim wants to wear a hijaab, she can wear it, whatever day that falls on. Hijaab is important in Islaam and it’s a big decision to make – if a girl wanted to wear it, I wouldn’t think to ask her to postpone it a day or two, especially not for something that’s completely unrelated. It’s not a poke at all. It’s something irrelevant. Secondly, the group that I saw and that I think you are talking about was organised by a non-Muslim, encouraging women to wear hijaabs and men to wear kufis (Muslim male hats worn for prayer) to stand in solidarity with the Muslims. She was encouraging non-Muslims to do this. But I dunno, you may have been talking about a different group. Either way, your point holds no weight. On the contrary, it’s completely opposite to the point you’re trying to make. This is just one way for Muslims to make a statement on 9/11 that they are with America, they are American. This is what you’re saying they don’t do enough.

    And finally, Muslims in history haven’t been known to burn your flag for a good time (for pleasure). Come on. Arabs (notice how I don’t say Muslims?) are still waiting for an explanation for Iraq. Iraq and many other things. They obviously feel that America has hurt them, and burning a flag is a way to express themselves. Burning a flag is not painful to you, I would hope. If somebody burnt the Iraqi flag, I could care less. But think about why they want to do this. You are looking at it like “the others.” There’s obviously a lot of issues and for you to present your “argument” as if to say “look, Muslims hate us. No wonder they attacked us and no wonder the rest of them don’t care about us and no wonder we won’t forgive them” is overly simplified, not to mention wrong.

    I don’t know what to think of this entry. I can’t even see how you are being “sarcastic” this time around. It seems this is your truth and what you believe, and that’s really sad.

  • @macphoto - Well said. Also, People in general should stop thinking of muslims as a ‘race’ not what they really are; people who believe in god and therefore follow a certain religion to express that.

  • @zionlover - America actually helped put Hussein personally into power. Paid for his college education. He was to be our puppet. The Shah of Iran was another one that backfired, and of course we supported, even bought drugs from, Bin Laden’s Taliban. We also supported another one of the most brutal dictators, Chile’s Augusto Pinochet. I never had anything against John McCain until he ran for President and I looked into his background. Among an array of other things he flew down to Chile and dined with Pinochet. And we wonder why we have so little moral credibility in the world. 

  • @OhItWontBeForever - Well, see, the fact is that the ones who go about and murder people, you know the terrorists, they seem to be the ones who actually are a threat. And they are the ones whom you need to explain to exactly what context those verses need to be taken in. Not me. I am not, nor will I ever be tempted to strap a bomb to myself or my child and go on a suicide mission. My point, if you bothered to follow the entire conversation which is here, was that I am suspicious of them. There actually is a threat. I understand the threat is with the extremists. I just can’t tell the difference.

  • @mtngirlsouth - umm not to beat a dead horse (though i guess i am lol) but it seems you might be trying to cloak an opinion to sound more politically correct when you say suspicious, which seems to cross slightly into the paranoia realm. Unless you’re suspicious of everyone – it’s kind of difficult for anyone to actually see that your suspicious of extremists (muslim or not) because they can basically, well, look like anyone?

  • I am thankful that this racist blog, though currently top featured, gets little and will continue to get less attention as Xanga continues to fade farther into social networking oblivion.  Indeed, such odious outpourings here by a “top Xanga celebrity”, I’d venture to say, should drive a new group of soon-to-be Xanga expatriates (and certainly by no means all Muslims, Dan) across the ever-expanding deserts of Xanga toward the Promised FaceLand.

    Good job of de-recruitment, Dan.  Good job of promoting his de-recruitment efforts, Xanga,

    As Cyrus “The Virus” might remark: “Love your work!”

  • @dvstyleZ - There you go, call me paranoid. Because only someone who is paranoid would ever think that terrorists represent any kind of a threat. 

  • @OhItWontBeForever - It looks a little more like you’ve made an actual return. :)  

  • @Diva_Jyoti - I doubt anyone of sound mind was ever mad at Muslims as a group.

  • I bet there are more Americans that were(are) smart enough not to lump all Muslims together with a small group of terrorists, just as I bet there are more Americans that were(are) smart enough not to lump all christians together with groups like Gainesville’s Dove World Outreach.

    You’re not giving people enough credit.  Your ideas of bigotry only include those easily strayed from truth and reason when faced with emotional happenstance, and who gives a shit about them.

  • @Automaton_Emotion - Okay, I guess I’ll take the bait and continue. Please explain to me how being suspicious of Muslims is racial profiling? You are the one who said that Muslims are not a race. My comment about racial profiling was, and I quote, “Racial profiling be damned, every single one of the terrorists who downed those planes were all Muslim.” Because some people call being suspicious of Muslims racial profiling. Secondly, anyone who “hates” would never be influenced by me. The only people who interpret what I say as “hate” would be those people who so adamantly disagree and wish to twist what I say into something that most would disagree with. In our commenting back and forth I have said over and over not to take away their freedoms, and not to be mean to them. The problem with people who think like you is that it is not enough to tolerate, it is not enough to allow freedom. The only thing that your line of thinking allows is total embracing. (Except, of course, anything that conservatives may adhere to, THAT in all cases must be stamped out completely.) Because all I have said was that I remain suspicious and that must be eradicated. That is bad. That is wrong. 

    And I did not say I fear them. I said I am suspicious. That is not fear. That is not hate. Any way that anything I say could be “spreading hate” would have to be that the haters had hate to begin with. I am not influencing anyone to hate.  I am being honest about how I feel, and I suspect many more do too, they are just afraid to say it for fear of the response I have gotten. In your love fest of all things unChristian, try to remember that those of us who do not think like you are not hate filled. Try to show that all encompassing openness to what I am saying instead of trying to slant it into something else. 

  • @TheSutraDude - thank you for your comments – it’s kind of a bummer that many don’t realize that religion and politics have always been mixed, are mixed, and will remain that way.

    the U.S. put saddam and bin laden (does this dude even exist lol) into power, but many like to oversee this as well. sometimes i doubt that the fight over jerusalem is even about religion anymore. it’s been an excuse, a political one. and will always be one. how many of us commit sins, and use religion as an excuse (call it suffering, catholic repentance, etc.), how many revisions have been made to holy texts over time to suit certain agendas. religion these days seems to create more division amongst people for their beliefs than unification. does anyone remember manifest destiny and all that stuff- of course not, that was boring u.s. history in school right? someone earlier mentioned the crusades…? taking back something that belonged to them? i bet no one in texas
    wants mexico to form an army and take back their land. maybe if they
    mentioned something about jesus it might be ok?

    france put a partial ban on burqas, pissed off muslims what else is new, who cares right? americans could give a fuck. when america decides to put a ban on snickers, hell will break lose. watch.

  • @TheSutraDude - I’ve read through many of the comments hereto.  Yours is wonderfully acurrate, historically on point, and persuasive.

  • @mtngirlsouth - oh stop i’m not calling you paranoid or anything, suspicion is healthy if anything, it’s a form of intuitive judgement. it’s just a bit hard to digest when you say suspicious of terrorists when they have no physical attributes, until well, after a terrorist attack? see what i mean? i mean i can’t say i’m suspicious of fish, because my friend got bit by a shark. just sounds well, fishy. harhar.

  • @Megan@revelife - Over the years I’ve noticed people resort to personal attacks when their position is weak. 

  • @emberfly_layouts -   Wizard of Oz!

  • @mtngirlsouth - That’s your own problem. You need to start being able to tell the difference, because the longer you put that off, the higher the chance of you actually having problems with Muslims like myself as well as the terrorists.

    Give me a terrorists’ contact details and I will be happy to explain it to them. It’s hilarious how people expect me to explain these things to the terrorists, as a peace-loving Muslim, and even go so far as to claim that I am a big part of the problem if I don’t. There’s no big network of Muslims whereby I can get in touch with them. I would like that, but it’s not possible.

    But what is possible is for me to remind you that the verses you’ve cited (probably in an attempt to support your claims about Islaam and Muslims in this thread – which I did read), don’t stand as evidence or really anything relevant at all.

    I’d also like to be shown where I ever claimed there was no threat.

    @Automaton_Emotion - I think I have. :)

  • @Automaton_Emotion - Why does “battle of wits with unarmed opponents” pop to mind? ;-}

  • I know what you’re TRYING to say, Dan, but you’ve said it very badly.  You’re making a bad situation worse.

  • You know this how?  Many have moved on.  I think those who “have not forgiven the Muslims” saw them as a threat to Christianity before that and 9/11 gave them an excuse to express that hatred.

  • Two wrongs don’t make a right. In this case, there are hundreds of wrongs on both sides & they definitely don’t make a right.

    “Difference of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are
    identical and our hearts are open.”

  • @valis10 - Are Muslim AMERICANS a threat to the democracy of the West? Have Muslim AMERICANS supported and participated in democratic processes? Does Islam need to be representative of ALL Americans, or should Muslims be representative of Islam in the same limited capacity that any religious group is representative of all who adhere to a particular ideology? Are Muslim Americans in favor of tolerance, human rights, equal opportunity, and tolerance towards women and minorities? Is Sharia law permissible within the United States, where the American justice system reigns supreme?

    We are discussing Muslims residing within the United States. At least, that was my understanding of Mtngirlsouth’s comments. She was referring to the Muslims within the confines of the United States. Thus, the only relevant discussion is what Muslim Americans and those holding visas or green cards in the U.S. feel in regards to those topics.

    Hand wringing and emotionalism? The very things I was arguing against. Thank you for noticing.

  • @OhItWontBeForever - I’m glad to hear it. Welcome back! :)

  • @Automaton_Emotion - I obviously identify with Christian extremists just because I say I am suspicious of Muslims? I am sure that makes you feel better when you call me out on it. Put words in my mouth I never said, intentions behind my words to make me look bad. How is it that being suspicious of someone means that I will not smile at them in passing? And yes, people like you who take one simple statement that I am suspicious of Muslims because of the very real threat of terrorists and sleepers, and turn it into that I am spreading hate and being unkind. I made a statement. I will not apologize or back down. I do not care what kind of slant you choose to put on it to make it seem like it is irrational paranoid unkind or hateful. Suspicion is none of those things. This conversation is over, and I really do not think I will ever respond to anything you say again. 

  • Uhhhh, seeing as nowhere in your post do I see you saying that you yourself are still holding a grudge, I actually find this post informative and a little refreshing because I have been asking myself why Americans (especially American Christians) keep tearing their wounds back open every September.  Having been reminded of our dependence on the media to inform us of everything, including how we should feel about something, and remembering how you couldn’t find anything else on television for the next month it now makes a little more sense even if it doesn’t make it any more excusable.

    I’m with you on personally being ready for whoever to build whatever at Ground Zero.  I also agree that if you want people to like you, you probably shouldn’t do things that piss other people off, that’s just logic.  But if the Muslims building whatever-that-thing-turns-out-to-be don’t care about what other people think and don’t care if people like them or not….well, they can join the growing group of Americans who find great pleasure in doing whatever they want regardless of who it hurts.  Everyone hurts everybody else, oh what a wonderful world.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Ah, so the Muslim community (some 20% of the world population) should be satisfied with your desire to tolerate their existence and your generous allowance of their retention of present freedoms.

    How do I think? People who think like me? Let me make it perfectly clear what I think, so there is no question:

    I think that I will smile at those I pass on the street, offering them a genuine smile and acknowledging their existence in close proximity, as a fellow human who possesses an intrinsic value.

    I think that I should make determinations about people as individuals and only after I have come to know them.

    I think that the terrorists directly responsible for the hijacked planes and the crashes on September 11, 2001 are all dead and of no consequence. Their actions, of course, are of consequence to every person who lost a loved one as a result of those attacks, which is to include those who have had loved ones pass, those have lost relationships to divorce, those who have lost significant portions of their own or their loved one’s being, those who have lost their ability to trust, and those who have lost loved ones to illness long after the fact as well as every man, woman, and child that bore witness to the attacks on television, in newspapers or magazines, and in all other media.

    I think that religious freedom is an incredibly important tenet of the United States; indeed, it is a founding principle of this nation and one that countless young men and women swear to protect as service members.

    I think that this nation is so far removed from its own roots that it has forgotten that we are a nation of immigrants.

    I think that Muslims are, first and foremost, my fellow humans, my peers, and I owe them the same treatment I would hope to receive from them.

    I think that your suspicion of all Muslims due to that acts of but a few is sad.

    I think that your denial of those same acts being perpetrated by Christians is equally sad; that suggests you identify, on some level, with Christian extremists while you hold Muslim extremists as wholly separate.

    I think it is strange (and sad) that you are determined to separate yourself from me and label yourself an Us while clearly labeling me as a Them.

    Remaining suspicious of an entire fifth of the world population… Well, yes, that’s wrong. It’s indicative of a deeper hurt, fear, or anger than you would like to portray. Clearly, you do not trust Muslims, as a whole.

    The U.S. Department of Justice defines racial profiling as “[a]ny police-initiated action that relies on the race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than the behavior of an individual or information that leads the police to a particular individual who has been identified as being, or having been, engaged in criminal activity.” Racial profiling goes directly against the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments. Former President George W. Bush denounced the use of racial profiling in February of 2001 and vowed to stamp out its use in the United States. The Attorney General, John Ashcroft, reaffirmed this position in February of 2002. In 2003, the Depart of Justice expressly forbid its use in the release of the Guidance Regarding the Use of Race by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. It is, without question, a wrongful practice. In saying “[r]acial profiling be damned,” you are declaring that, despite these negative attitudes toward racial profiling, you intend to remain suspicious of Muslims based on a preconceived notion of what a Muslim is, which is (apparently) physically distinguishable from you.

    I am not slanting your words. You can declare that you are against stripping “them” of their freedoms and being mean to them a hundred times, but your speech is intolerant. You have segregated yourself from 20% of the population based solely on the actions of 19 individuals who were clearly not representatives of Islam and were Muslim by self-declaration only. Nineteen people. That’s less than the number of children in your average public school classroom. A standard American elevator has a capacity of 2000-2500 pounds, or approximately 15 people weighing 150 pounds each. You are suspicious of 20% of the world population based the actions of such a small number of people that nearly all of them could share an elevator with you.

    Declaring that you would not strip them of their rights certainly doesn’t indicate tolerance on your part. It is more indicative of a desire to be perceived as being fair. Interpret that how you will.

  • I didn’t see any videos on tv of Muslims celebrating death. Not on day 1. Not on week 1. Not in month 1. And I used to watch a fair amount of tv back then. I’m not saying it didn’t happen (and that it did is sad & terrible, I shouldn’t even have to say this), but it’s not something I saw and I’m pretty sure my peers, all of us bona fide New Yorkers, were on the same boat as it never came up in our discussions. There was never anything to forgive Muslims for unless you’re pinning us all via guilt by association. Way to beat a dead horse. People are dying all the time in Muslim countries, innocent civilians via our votes, money, etc. If they’re burning a flag while their media paints us Americans the same way our media paints them… you’re really just going to pick up on the cycle?

  • the whole Muslim population didn’t attack us, a group of dumbasses that just so happened to be Muslims did.

    Grow up, we’re just as bad as them.

  • Bored now. If people want to build a mosque they can do it whenever and wherever the hell they want. Just as Christians have been building Churches wherever they want for thousands of years. Why should the Muslims have to be the sensitive ones?

    Get over yourself.

  • @Automaton_Emotion - Lets give Detroit, MI a few years and I think the question of how well the Muslim religion functions in our Democracy will be answered.

  • You know, there are AMERICAN MUSLIMS, right?

  • @mtngirlsouth - You obviously identify with Christian extremists on some level because you refused to believe them capable of the same acts you attribute to Muslim extremists, clearly separating even Christian extremists from Muslims (both terrorists and true Muslims alike). When faced with evidence that Christian extremists not only do perpetrate those same acts, but have done so on American soil in recent months, you completely ignored the assertion altogether. Again, this separates Christian extremists from Muslims. Your actions, or lack thereof, leaves you open to interpretation and I do not believe that I would be alone in interpreting it in this manner.

    You made assumptions about how I think and I was clarifying to you how I think. In no way was I asserting that you did or did not do anything in particular, except in those statements explicitly doing so.

    It was hardly one simple statement. You went out of your way to establish Muslims as a danger and a threat. You do know that America employs “sleepers” in other countries, right? It is a common practice in which countries infiltrate other countries with allies to gather intelligence and/or install themselves in a particular location or situation to perform tasks on behalf of the employing government or agency. Americans are every bit as much a threat to the rest of the world as you claim Muslims to be, except more so. Why? Because America is big enough and bad enough to follow through on its threats and justifies the use of extreme force in other countries, creating civilian casualties in numbers far, far greater than those created on September 11, 2001.

    Frankly, it doesn’t surprise me that you would curtail this conversation. Truthfully, I long to not have any need to respond to your comments as well. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you will continue to stir a need in me.

    And respond, I will. Ever civilly, I assure you. You should absolutely do what is right for you.

  • @notforprophet - just wondering how comments about a religion can be called racist?  Intolerant, and uninformed, come to mind, and hateful, but racist?

  • you know, most of the people who committed major crimes in the u.s. were not muslims. the oklahome bombing guys were white. all the school shooting people were white. yes, it’s true that crashing two commercial planes into two major buildings was a terrible thing, but how many muslims have committed a terrible crime vs americans commiting a terrible crime? blamimg muslims isn’t going to fix anything because i’m sure more non-muslim people will still do terrible crimes in the u.s. anyway. by the way, i have met some muslim people after the 9/11 attacks and i would still be their friends.

  • @valis10 - The Muslim community in Michigan is actually centered in Dearborn, not Detroit. It will have little to no affect on Detroit’s democratic processes. 

  • Perhaps they haven’t forgiven Muslims because they are ignorant that 9/11 was not the product of Muslim but rather extreme radicals.  To say that they represent Muslims is like saying that Pat Robertson represents all of Christianity.  Or that the Oklahoma City bomber represented everyone in Michigan.  When people stop making crazy associations then maybe we can start experiencing peace.

  • **re-reading comments**  I have no words. Only disbelief for the disturbing nature of both the comments and the video.

  • Wow. Why did I accept your invite? I’m sure for the most part you’re a good invoker-of-political-shit blogger on xanga, but this 9/11 shit is getting really annoying. Grow the fuck up and move on. All I see is that this post, like your others, is trying to stir controversy, hatred and page views. You’ve officially lost ONE xangan that thought you were an intelligent person. Congratulations.

  • @OhItWontBeForever - Why should I have problems with you? Am I not allowed to be suspicious? How has that caused you any harm? Why should you care? Especially if you are not doing anything to be suspicious of? 

  • ‘ This was not a few radicals.  This looked like a movement.’
    American press makes things look like it wants things to look like. You simply can’t judge such a large group of people based on the small group that you’re made aware of, especially if you are made aware of it via the press. Americans need to remember a lot of things. First off, American press is notoriously biased and corrupt. Americans pride themselves on their ‘freedom of speech’ in a country where Palestine’s point of view can’t get through in the news, where interviews with the parents of dead American volunteers there aren’t shown because of Americas financial interest in Israel. 
    Second, Americans need to remember that not all Muslims are one Muslim. I have plenty of Muslim friends, I have been to the middle-east, and never have i encountered a Muslim who thinks terrorism is alright. Ever.

    ‘Do you see the bad timing there?  Do you see how wearing something
    on 9/11 is sort of a poke in the eye.  Do you think you might want to
    try and pick one of the other 365 days in the year.’
    The point they are trying to make is that this was not them. They are Muslim, but you can’t blame them and they will not step down because of your ignorance and prejudice. I’m going to say something here that might make a lot of people angry, but 9/11 was a terrible day for the Muslim community too. It was a day where they were made into lepers, they were made into something to avoid. They were all marked as terrorists, and even now, years later, they still have to face the prejudice because of something a few people that happened to be of the same religion did.

    Muslims are not bad people, and 9/11 should not be about Muslims. 9/11 should be about remembering and paying our respect to those who lost their lives and not pointing fingers at people who have nothing to do with anything.

  • great post!

  • I don’t think this post is controversial at all. You haven’t even really made a solid statement or argument worthy of being called controversy. You throw a lot of what-ifs and ‘it looks like’ around and with good reason. You’ve adequately explained a perception held by many americans and a reason behind it and in what way that view is reasonable. Don’t take people who can’t properly analyze what you’re saying too seriously. 

  • I agree with a lot of what you said. I see comments where people are saying that Americans cheered for the deaths of Muslims and while that’s true (not okay, true), it doesn’t mean it’s okay to fly a few planes into buildings and killing Americans followed by cheering.

    @Teufels_Hofnarr - He never said people didn’t have the right to wear and believe what they wanted, he simply was showing that it’s hard for Americans to forgive [certain] Muslims after all of the things in the post and if Muslims wanted to be accepted they shouldn’t continue to do things that will obviously anger the country (they can do whatever they want, but if they’re looking for acceptance, showing happiness on 9/11 isn’t what they should be doing).

  • @emptyabyss - I really like the last paragraph you wrote. That’s what I’ve been saying for so long.

  • Just like all Muslims are not American flag burning terroist not all Americans are Muslim hating Qur’an burning crazies…
    The majority ruins the bunch and I’m surprised at people’s lack of ability to think critically about this and not let the news consume their emotions into illogical crap.

  • first of all let’s argue about the reliability of this video. are you sure they were celebrating the deaths of americans? are you sure they werent just celebrating some kind of victory for their cricket team from the last night’s match? :P how can you really tell? dont trust the news 100% man. i’ve got a friend from sudan, who recently told me that most of the things written in the news about their racial tension and genocide and whatnot have been widely exaggerated by the news. and again i feel like some or more of the things about muslims have been showed in the wrong light they have been wrongly depicted as violent and inhumane human beings and most of the time the things that are shown on tv are falsely interpreted and falsely broadcasted. the news, it’s still a freaking business and if sensationalising an issue can help them expand their audience then why shouldnt they sensationalise it? they dont care if it creates tension between people all they want is audience and their ratings to go up. i have friends from oman, pakistan and uae and they’re all nice people man,  and i’ve got other friends who despite being muslims theirselves hate the al qaeda for doing such things. (if indeed they did bomb the tower) not all news reports are false and not all of them are right. you gotta take a wider scope of the world before you start posting something so provocative. futhermore, if you’re talking about muslims celebrating american deaths, i think there have been more cases where muslim deaths have been celebrated as well waaaaay before 9/11. religion is not the problem man, no one religion in the world would promote violence, no single one. it’s people who are not strong believers who are the problems. and believe me, not all muslims are like the al qaeda. and even if it was celebrated by this bunch of people, bear in mind that these insensitive people only make up of what could be less than 10% of the muslim population. let’s not forget the fact that muslims are not just people from pakistan, uae. oman and afghanistan. china, a non muslim country has the most population of muslims. so how can you say the americans hate muslims in general when you cant blame all of them for 9/11? nor can you say they even support the motion? dont hate the freaking body man, hate the bloody disease, please. :)

  • @dvstyleZ - Good points. And what if Native Americans decided to take back what is theirs? I’d actually get on board with that. If everybody on the planet suddenly decided to take back what was theirs everyone would probably have to relocate.

    @ItsWhatEyeKnow - Thank you. 

  • Speaking as an American, I don’t share the view that you attribute to me. I was never angry at Islam or Muslims as a whole – directing anger at an entire group for the actions of a few would have been moronic. My anger is at the lunatics who planned and committed that horrific act 9 years ago, plain and simple. 

  • Honestly I have come to accept that American Muslims probably had nothing to do with 9-11 but as for the ones over seas cheering the tragedy well they aren’t getting forgiven., I don’t care if they did it or not they agreed with it. As for us cheering their deaths and what all we have done the them since then, I am a firm believer in you hit us we hit you back harder. I am not sure what they expected us to do after that just sit back and whine about it.. There were people in my school wth close relatives working in the towers so they basically watch them die that day.. I wouldn’t expect them to ever for give them. As for the mosque and them deciding to wear burkas on 9-11 that’s pathetic it should be a day to remember the people that lost their lives not a day for them to try and prove a point. That is disrespectful and pathetic. There are 364 other days in a year they can prove their point. 

  • Okay, first of all. It’s not ALL Americans that still blame Muslims for 9/11. It’s the least intelligent ignorant ones. Saying all Americans are like this can be just as ignorant.

  • @crazy2love - Before 9/11 WHO in the US was cheering Muslim deaths?  Maybe I just don’t remember what news events or what not you may be referring to but I honestly have no clue.  And WHY would they be cheering Muslim deaths before 9/11?

    Let me say that I do not “hate” Muslims.  After 9/11 I worked with a woman who was Muslim.  I never once felt anything negative toward her & I even asked her questions about her religion – I am a Christian myself & firm in my beliefs.  I did not blame her at all.  In fact, 9/11 NEVER came up in any of our conversations.  I got to know HER.  Now as for the blanket statement about Muslims – especially in reference to the men – I must admit I am nervous around them, apprehensive, skeptical & maybe even suspicious.  However, I do not hate them.  I’m a Christian and so I do my best not to hate anyone.  I’ve learned growing up that harboring hate makes ME a depressed, bitter person.  You can’t be truly happy & hate people too. 

    Now, I admit I am not opposed to our country going out & fighting a war against these people.  Wars are sometimes necessary – like WWII was to stop the mass murder of people based on their looks, abilities, race, religion, etc.  That was atrocious & war was absolutely necessary.  Here, it is necessary to preserve our freedoms (as 9/11 shows there are those out there with ability to oppose it) as well as try to curb anyone else out there who may feel they too can come and kill Americans on American soil.  However, I do NOT rejoice in the deaths of these people.  When Sadam Hussein was executed, I felt relief…..NOT happiness, rejoicing, etc.  Why?  Because that was someone’s son, brother, etc.  Because as evil as he was, God (according to my beliefs) created him.  Because he was a living, breathing, feeling human being.  Was I sad?  No.  Simply relieved.  Relieved because he was no longer a danger to his own people or anyone else for that matter.  Not sad because how can I be sad for the loss of someone who was evil, ordered the deaths of many of his own people & whom I never knew personally?  Not happy because death is serious & unpleasant business.  I would hope (& choose to believe) that is how many (not all, I am not naive) of my fellow Americans perceive the death of Muslim terrorists, tyrants or other bad/horrible/evil people. 

  • @Rob_of_the_Sky - agreed.

  • @ItsWhatEyeKnow - 

    Are you referring to my comment? I will assume you are because that is the one you replied to. You have no idea what I am referring to with that comment, so is it the best thing for you to start making snide comments?

  • Fucking prick. 

  • @TheCrimsonSlash -   “Celebrating one of the biggest losses in our nations history ”

     Oh, Fuck off. There were only, what, about 3000 people who died from 9/11? What about the KKK that went about murdering/lyching thousands of African American people ?
    It is just a tumbling of a few concrete blocks and the loss of a couple civilians. Shits been blown way out of proportion. Quit looking for reasons to get angry and put your tax dollars into something more useful than the “war on terror”,  like improving your nation’s education, the poor’s living conditions or the starving children in Africa.

  • It’s not too hard to figure out why some Palestinians would be cheering over the 9/11 attacks. They were displaced from Israel when it was formed after WWII and the the American government has been supporting their military since that time. They’ve lived in a virtual siege and have no autonomy. I agree with the posters who point out that not all Muslims, Christians, or Atheists for that matter are the same. People of all creeds have done horrible things to each other and at other times have been very selfless.

    I think the tone of this blog entry is very angry; which while understandable, doesn’t help to improve the situation anymore than the actions he’s complained about. If the attacks of 9/11 proved anything at all, they’ve shown how easy it is to destroy and how difficult it is to create.

  • Just because you can think of a rationalization for it doesn’t make this kind of racism okay. You could easily (and more accurately, though obviously not completely accurately since it’s a generalization) attribute this behavior to people from that area of the Middle East and not a whole religion. Also, they picked 9/11 because of it’s significance and to show they are one of us while still being Muslim. You act like the 9/11 date was an accident. It was well planned out, and it makes plenty of sense. I really can’t believe you’re buying into all this anti-Muslim sentiment…

  • This issue is much more complex than just videos and live feeds. 

  • Thank you very much for this post. My uncle nearly died on 9/11 and I honestly hate everything that reminds me of Islam. This one time I tried making friends with exchange students from Saudi Arabia and I was shocked with how much they drank, smoked pot, treated women poorly, cheated, and fought with each other. I have even read the Qu’ran and was disgusted with many of the verses. My view of Islam and what it does to people is as negative as can be, but I’m glad someone with a heart was able to write this post to his fellow Muslims. It helps remind me that not all Muslims are evil. Again, thank you.

  • Wow. I completely and totally disagree with you. I really don’t know what else to say.

  • @bettinatron - 

    He does not have the right to interpret SOME Muslim women wearing a hijab and SOME non-Muslim Americans standing up for them as a provocation; none of them had anything to do with 9/11. He needs to quit justifying the indignation of fools and stand up for minority rights.

  • Hear, hear. I think I’ll finally subscribe to you. It’s been long enough.
    Don’t put a huge, phallic fuck-you right fucking next to where you, not even an entire decade ago, felled our towers. Seriously. I don’t understand how Muslims DON’T see the distastefulness in that. I’m not charging into Mecca, tearing down your buildings then setting up skyscrapers. Fuck, that would be distasteful as fuck and even I know that.

    But I would cheer.

    I see your stance laced in there, I believe you attempted to take a pretty neutral view, but fuck. We’re not seeing the views the same, but I’m rather sick of Muslims pretending innocence. That religion is a pretty extremist religion that is growing in the same way Satanism originally grew: teenagers sit and think “huh. What’s one thing I can do that’s super controversial–oh, I know, let’s join this religion I know nothing about but millions of people are fuckin’ scared of!”

    Guess what, guys. In front of you, right now, you’re presented a Nazi. I’m one of those Nazis who hasn’t committed arson, nor murder, but I have flown my banner. I’ve never done a terrorist act. I’m a political extremist. I know extremists when I see them, and Muslims, the Qu’ran, it’s all so, so extremist.
    Just because you’re not a terrorist doesn’t mean you’re not cheering them on.
    Just because I don’t behead people in the throes of winter doesn’t mean I don’t support my brothers in Russia who do.

  • @macphoto - Agreed. Completely.

  • haha … sorry but this one really disturbs me.

    why are u talking about muslims????
    There is a BIG diffrence between muslims and islamist. not muslims flew in the twins – ISLAMIST did it. i know that 9.11. is difficult topic for americans but dont judge the wrong people for something they havent done.

  • @firetyger - Can’t have said it better! I second this.

  • @crazy2love - Totally agree =) you just made a best comment for this article :D

  • there is good and bad in everyone. if you read the bible, it promotes loves amongst ALL people. BUT it also says that those who reject jesus will be aligned with the forces of evil in the end days and will be enemies of god. YES, YOU atheists, muslims, etc….. so UNTIL that day comes where the world will stand in two camps ready to fight – we should CLOSE our eyes and PRETEND that what is clearly an enemy of god is really a peace loving people? fuck that. YOU be politically correct all you want and kiss “compromise’s” ass. howz that for open mind? yeah, claim your “open minded” stance all you want because that explains how you let your brains leak out. this post from dan is good, it’s a watered down version of what many true believers want to say. 

  • I was one of the Americans who cheered our retaliatory action against Afghanistan. I jumped for joy when I came home from a school a few days after 9/11 and saw that we were dropping cluster bombs on and firing cruise missiles into Kabul. I cheered again when reports came out of Afghanistan that our ground troops were destroying the Taliban and that combined Northern Alliance/coalition troops were killing thousands of the enemy across the country.

    I’ve grown up since then and I’ve come to realize that only a small percentage of Muslims hate us to the point of committing homicide against us and that the shots of people across the Middle East celebrating 9/11 were not representative of the Muslim population of the world by any means. And when we went into Iraq without a shred of evidence two years later, I did not celebrate the killing of people who had nothing to do with our war against terrorism. But while I no longer believe in discriminating against or preaching hate against Muslims, my stance on those who take up arms against my country is still the same. No mercy, no quarter, no surrender, kill them all.

  • Laughed at some of these reactions.
    He posts what he does because it’s his site.
    If you don’t like what he does, unsubscribe from him.

  • Since when are you the voice of every American?

  • @Megan@revelife - Sometimes the truth hurts?  I mean seriously, if your position is strong it’s not hard to stick to arguments supporting it and refrain from name calling.

  • @TheHiddenRose86 - Agreed

  • @AceValentineRocks - I dont know if you commented again… I’m not interested in reading 300 comments atm. But I agree with your first comment and so many others on this topic.

    I was going to say more, but I think I’ll just blog about it later ><;.

    Edit: Dan, I’m rather surprised at you. Here I have been wondering for months if you ever post blogs involving a lot of your thought or if you always just post a picture about a story and ask a question or two… So it surprised me that the first blog of length and depth would be this one filled with, well I don’t want to be rude about this but the misguided hate here is painful to the eye. =/

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Now that you’ve commented with a certain degree of civility without epithets unlike the last comment you left, I’ll give you a straight answer. I never said we should use Saudi Arabia as a model for anything. I was simply stating how it’s a double standard that some Muslims gripe about America discriminating against them when places such as Saudi Arabia do the same to Christians and Jews.

  • @ItsWhatEyeKnow - 

    So I assume that rule didn’t apply when you went around here calling Dave and Paul the most vile names you could think of? Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just embarrassing yourself, being the troll that you are, as usual.

  • Why don’t muslims just dedicate the mosque to the people who died on 9/11? Wouldn’t that solve the problem?

  • @Megan@revelife - And there you have it.  More name calling.  Like I said before, when someone argues from a position of strength, it’s easy to refrain from. 

  • @zionlover - 

    Who cares what Saudi Arabia does? We’re Americans and we don’t discriminate against our own citizens on matters of religion. That’s what we were founded on.

    “Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry.” –Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:301, Papers 2:545

  • Wow. Not cool. As someone who is prolife, you should understand what it feels like to me lumped in with the same murdering anti-abortion zealots and called a ‘domestic terrorist’ simply because you believe in some of the same things they do. 

  • Honestly, I dislike organized religion.

    It causes more problems than anything else.Not all Muslims are like that, obviously. I’m disgusted about the people in the video and the people in the picture, but they do not speak for everyone.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Exactly my point. Thank you.

  • @TheSutraDude - I fail to see how paying for Saddam’s college tuition would motivate him to kill his political opponents in overthrowing his government. If he was a puppet to the US, does that mean we ordered him to gas thousands of Kurds and launch an aggressive attack against Kuwait? When exactly did he cut the strings that made us have to oust him from Kuwait by force? Anyway, your cherry-picked examples of alleged foreign policy blunders don’t negate the fact that we’ve also done much good in the world to which many have shown much appreciation. The murder of 3000 innocent Americans still can’t be justified by any means.

  • many muslims, whose families certainly did not support the events of 9/11, also died that day.

    it is fair that many americans have not forgiven terrorists for 9/11.but to say that you are unable to forgive muslims, who are innocent and should not be associated with those who have misinterpreted the religion,is not only ignorant but also kind of sad.i hate to use this example, as it is oft-overused, but the westboro baptist church has been known to burn flags and spread their hatred for americans.would you hold all baptists in that same respect? probably not.regardless, it seems silly that it is so easy to spread hate…especially when, if anything, we should be using this event to reinforce our love for each other, in bringing support to the families of those who died that day.

  • @zionlover - I agree we have done good in the world and continue to do good. Those are the qualities of which I am proud to be a part. Your dismissive categorization of examples as being “cherry-picked” does not add anything to what you are trying to say nor does it detract from what I am trying to say. If I list positive things we’ve done anyone could as easily categorize those as cherry-picked. No, we did not order Saddam to gas Kurds or launch an aggressive attack against Kuwait just as we did not order Bin Laden to plan the 9/11 attack when we supported him during the 1980s. We didn’t order the brutal Chilean dictator, Augusto Pinochet to execute the many atrocities for which he was responsible but we did support his regime. John McCain once flew down to Chile and had lunch with the guy. I agree with you that the murder of 3000 innocent Americans can’t be justified but I also don’t think killing innocents anywhere or by anyone is justified. 

  • All this stuff has wind burned my soul.  I’m weary of hearing about it.  It frustrates me.  When I hear or see or read about all this, scriptures like from Galations pops up in my head. 

    “After all, brothers, you were called to be free; do not use your freedom as an opening for self-indulgence(do not confuse freedom with license), but be servants to one another in love, since the whole of the Law is summarised in the one commandment: You must love your neighbour as yourself.
    If you go snapping at one another and tearing one another to pieces, take care: you will be eaten up by one another. Instead, I tell you, be guided by the Spirit, and you will no longer yield to self-indulgence(yield to the desires of the flesh, to our fallen nature.  our sinful nature).  The desires of self-indulgence are always in opposition to the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are in opposition to self-indulgence: they are opposites, one against the other; that is how you are prevented from doing the things that you want to.  But when you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.  When self-indulgence(when our sinful nature) is at work the results are obvious: sexual vice, impurity, and sensuality, the worship of false gods and sorcery; antagonisms and rivalry, jealousy, bad temper and quarrels, disagreements, factions and malice, drunkenness, orgies and all such things. And about these, I tell you now as I have told you in the past, that people who behave in these ways will not inherit the kingdom of God.  On the other hand the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control; no law can touch such things as these.  All who belong to Christ Jesus(Jesus is Truth, so those who follow and seek Truth) have crucified self with all its passions and its desires.  Since we are living by the Spirit, let our behaviour be guided by the Spirit and let us not be conceited or provocative and envious of one another.”

    This is nothing new.  There’s nothing new under the sun.  They knew even then, and they were warning us then about what could and would unfold now.  Even Plato knew about it and wrote about our fate in The Republic.  When a democracy fails, because we took our freedoms and turned them into license, lawlessness will ensue, and when we get tired of the lawlessness, we’ll pretty much hire someone to get us out of it, to bring back order, to tell us what to do.  A dictator.  The next step is dictatorship.  And this is what we’re promoting all over the world: Democracy.  It’s frustrating.  I want it all to stop now.  Just stop.  Enough.  Just walk away from it all.  Both sides.  God, help us, please.  Father, hear and answer the prayer of Your son when He was on the cross, and hear it now.  Forgive us, Father, for we truly truly truly know not what we do.  We are scattered and confused like sheep without a shepherd.  Save us.  From the depths of our despair, hear us, Father.    

  • a lot of people are disagreeing with you Dan, but I think you made a good point.

  • Not all terrorists are Muslim, Not all Muslims are terrorists. Just as all Catholic priests are not pedophiles. Wicca,sorry to tell you-not witches or devil worshipers. Stereotypes.

    I can understand that people want to point their finger at someone because of the hurt, fear and anger from this tragedy but pointing at your fellow Americans is completely ignorant. What about Timothy Mcveigh, what religion was he? Maybe Americans should be hating on that religion as well.
    Look at the extremists that claim responsibility for this, be angry with them.

    Seriously, do you think that all these Muslims in the USA are waiting for the perfect moment to strike. No. All over the world, they are sitting there waiting for the go ahead. Sounds ridiculous, because it is.

    I’d like to see these haters actually put themselves in the shoes of those they hate. What if your whole country was hating on you for something you didn’t do? I’m thinking the “haters” are to bloody ignorant to even consider thinking about that.

  • @Queen_of_You188 - just like it’s unforgivable for muslims to hate americans for something a few americans have done, or for people like the extremist afghans and pakistanis to hate americans for their religion, but they still do, don’t they?

    Instead of hating on americans, why dont u hate on terrorists? now what they did… THAT is unforgiveable!

  • Not all muslims are to blame for 9/11 a TERROROST GROUP was to blame. Just because they happen to be radicals doesn’t mean they represent the whole Muslim religion. And before America sticks their noses in everyone elses business and supplies bombs and weapons to every underdog group they see, think about the future. This wouldn’t have happened if Americans didn’t supply weapons for the Al-Quada to fight against the Russians.

    Also it funny how everyone here is bitching about 9/11 and crying about it when the civilian casualties by the oh so honorable American Army in the Middle East grow everyday! Both sides are making mistakes. Peaceful Muslims and Pacifist Americans get overlooked because the Al-Quada and Americanradicals make the most waves and the media completely exploits that.

    Peace and tolerance is the only way for people to stop all this madness not pointing fingers and blaming everyone else. I grew up in Bosnia and when I look back on the years of the civil war there all the pain and murdering could have stopped if people just stopped preaching their nationalistic bullshit and just got along!  think the US and Middle East should do the same. Cause the future looks bleak if this continues.

  • @LeeKymKween - Notice I said “one” not the only one. Last time I checked 3,000 people was a hell of a lot of people. It is upsetting.

    oh “fuck off?” YAY! Porn for me. *runs away to masturbate to your ignorance.*

  • I am, quite honestly, tired of hearing about this in the news. But it is a controversial subject, so..I will discuss it because it is something I feel strongly about. And I agree with the majority of what you said.

    First of all, why do they want to build a mosque RIGHT THERE? Hmm? Let’s disect that, shall we? In their country, mosques are typically built around religious sites or places of importance. The World Trade Center obviously fell there..and while no, not all Muslims were responsible for it, there were terrorists that rejoiced in this. I think the fact that they want to build a mosque on, near or around that site where thousands of people died because of some idiots that flew a plane into two buildings..(and let’s not forget the plane that didn’t reach its destination and was found in a field and the one that hit the Pentagon.) is a slap to our face. It’s almost like a dog, taking a piss on something. It’s saying, “This one is mine. Look what I did. I own this.” So, congratulations, terrorists. Yeah, you killed a bunch of our people in one swoop, but are we going to let you do it again? Hell no. This resulting war..it has gone on far enough, but I think we were right to go over there when we did and stand up for ourselves. THEY KILLED OUR PEOPLE. IT WAS AN OUTRIGHT ACT OF VIOLENCE AKIN TO PEARL HARBOR. Are you telling me we were wrong to fight the Japanese then? And yet we do not hate all Japanese people now. True, we put a bunch of them in internment camps if they lived in our country, but it was to prevent an uprising or something of that nature.

    I think the problem with our world is that we want all this freedom of religion and everything for all these people, and yet the people we are fighting for don’t give a rat’s ass about us sometimes and would rather force their beliefs down our throats. It’s ridiculous.

  • “Americans have not forgiven Muslims for the attack of 9/11.”

    Bull shit. A lot of us have. For a lot of us we never blamed Muslims as whole, rather we blamed unstable people who happened to be Muslim.

  • @zionlover - 

    Just what were you trying to argue? Why bring up what Saudi Arabia does if you agree that it doesn’t matter?

  • The title of this post is bullshit. It implies that Muslims, as a whole, were to blame for 9/11.

  • @TheRedheadChronicles - 

    Why are you equating all Muslims with what a dozen terrorists did?

    Do you also blame all white people for what the KKK does?

  • If you were a Muslim American, you would not feel this way.

    It’s not Muslims vs. America, it’s small group of extremist Muslims vs. everyone who doesn’t agree with their ideals.
    They’re terrorists, and they just HAPPEN to be Muslim, you get it? There are Christian extremists, Hindu extremists, etc. as well, we just keep hearing about Muslims terrorizing people on the news because the news shows only certain things, but really the majority of terrorists AREN’T Muslim. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Okay. I don’t see why you’re being so rude about it. If you want respect and support you’re not going to get it by acting so immaturely. State your opinion just as he did; there’s no reason to get so upset just because you don’t agree. He needs to do what you say just as much as you need to say it.

  • I was nine years old on 9/11, and I had two friends who were about my age who were Arab-American Muslims (their parents were immigrants from Kuwait).

    They got hell at school after 9/11 because other kids’ parents were at home saying “Arabs this” and “Muslims that” and just generally being fucktarded bigots.

    All I feel is rage towards people who are too stupid to realize that some of the people they’re talking about are *children.*

  • No, I agree with you. Although I believe in freedom of religion, it seems disrespectful to me to showcase your religion on the one day its reputation was soiled. I understand you want equality, but 9/11 is not the day to fight for it. It’s a day of silence and respect for American citizens, and maybe you should not associate your religion with that day MORE than it already is. Maybe, if you are not a terrorist or celebrating dead Americans, you should be silent as well, mourning the deaths of your fellow citizens. Know what I mean?

  • @ShimmerBodyCream - i’m down.

  • @Automaton_Emotion - yes it has been nickmaned Dearbornistan, and like I said tiem will tell.

  • @SoapAndShampoo - We aren’t making this day about us. YOU are making it about us. I almost forgot it was 9/11 until I looked at the date. Yes, I know, it’s bad and crap. But the point is that it happened a decade ago, and I do not believe a lot of Muslims WANT to be associated with that date. They are thrust into the spotlight because of countless people who condemn them.

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - The
    same reason Christians don’t do as much to condemn radical…
    iChristians? And yes, I do condemn them, as do many other people. Every
    time another “radical Muslim” out there does another action, I have to
    brace myself because then you, or another person who only hears what
    they want to hear comes bashing at the only person who will listen to
    your claims; People like me.

    @mtngirlsouth - You’re
    comparing us to a bunch of snakes? We don’t all look the same you
    know… And in fact there are a lot of American Muslims out there who
    dress exactly like an American. And if you really had that mindset, you’d be suspicious of EVERY single race out there, including black people who are always on the news for any crime, and serial killers who usually turn out white.

    @paoguy118 -
    I should have to forgive everyone because of an action that somebody
    else I never knew did? That sounds like you having to apologize for
    Timothy McVeigh… And as far as those countries of yours go, those
    countries do not represent true Islam, and I think you’d know this if you actually read a book or something.

    I’m wondering if you’re doing this with your same sarcasm as you always do, Dan. But then again… It sounded like you meant it. I always thought you were too smart for this though, guess I was wrong.

  • @bettinatron - 

    I don’t give a fuck about him. Why should I try to earn the respect of fools? He’s a maggot and a disgrace to what this country was founded on.

    Anyone who would try to oppress people of one religion for the actions of a few of its followers is an un-American bigot.

  • @elvish_fairy - No, Muslims ARE NOT A RACE. I know that. They all hold to the same religious book that many take to mean violence. And that is why I can’t tell them apart. That creed involves much violence and has a rich history of violence, much violence still goes on around the world to this moment by them, and every single nation that it dominates enforces inequality for women and conversion to that religion or death, being suspicious of it’s followers would usually be considered wise. There have been white converts who became terrorists. I am suspicious of anyone who chooses to think like that, yes. 

  • The few muslims burning the american flags are only a few. Their numbers do not make up the entire population of their country, only a very small fraction. Therefore these pictures can not even be taken into account of how muslims feel about americans.

    Pastor Terry Jones and his followers do not make up the entire population of America either, only a very small fraction.  Pastor Terry Jones’ ”KORAN Burning Ceremonies”  failed to even take place on account of him calling them off because the plans for the building of the Mosque were called off, so Terry got what he wanted anyways. Also, since these burnings were set up in smaller towns, they obviously are not an accurate portrayal of how all americans feel about Muslims or the Muslim religion.

    If Americans really hated Muslims these burnings would have happened in New York City, Chicago, and L.A. or atleast just one of them, not some dinky little towns where everyone believes all the same things anyways.  Televison rapes the facts and if you view Musilms in a negative light for the events that have taken place over the last decade than you have been raped by the television.

    Don’t hate the country, hate the radicals of the country such as the Al-Qeada because Muslims only hate our radicals, such as Terry Pastor Jones.

    Terry Pastor Jones is going to rot in the hell he believes in. 

  • @elvish_fairy - The only thing wrong with yourl little scenario is that iSLAMers are the one’s who flew jets into the Trade Center and commit terror worldwide on a regular basis.  There is no sect or part of Christianity that advocates terror or the institution of sharia law.

    When America conquered Iraq, we gave it back to the Iraquis.  That isn’t the case with iSLAM. Once conquered by iSLAM that’s all she wrote.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Haha, I think you need to re-read it. Why should anyone respect your beliefs if you’re not going to respect theirs?

  • Wow. I missed this one.

    Dan, you’ve done nothing wrong here. It was a very even handed post. Well…… you may have made the mistake of handing the Libs an opportunity to pat themselves on the back for being magnanimoussss…. errrr  (?)
    I’ve got to say, this one was a stretch for them. They really had to contort themselves to self-congratulate this time. Can you tell they’ve been spring loaded in this direction for the past few days? Poor things.
    They should be thanking you for relieving the tension. They’ve been dreading this day for quite awhile. Too jingoistic.  *sniff*    ;)

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHecZHvej-I&feature=watch_response

  • @mtngirlsouth - There are lots of white people in Islam.  There are those freaks in the Balkans, Chechnyians (spelling?), and still many North Africans and Iranians who believe it (although I would say that probably most Iranians are hostile to Islam now because they’re waking up).  Not everyone who follows Islam is an Arab.  There are also lots of Asian Moslems and black Moslems.  But you’re right, the ideology is absolutely insane, makes people crazy, and anyone who follows that creed is suspect and ought to be viewed as a potential threat.  

  • @Queen_of_You188 - I agree with you 100%! Great metaphor, BTW.

  • @bakersdozen2 - LOL

  • Well put.

  • I’m definitely against allowing them to build that mosque.  To do so is like bending over and slapping your bum while taking a communal shower in prison.  Moslems need to recognize that they’re guests in our countries and start showing some respect.

    Also I don’t buy into all this “it’s just a few Moslems” tripe because most of them support this stuff, and in any case the savage behavior that we see is just them following what Muhammad said.

  • …I don’t see why people are getting so mad at you, Dan. …the post you wrote about women being raped in the military, I have to say, I still hold a slight grude on…haha…but this…? I dunno…yeah you’re assuming that everybody believes this by saying, “American’s haven’t forgiven,” but people don’t have to make a hugeee deal about it…do they? *cue innocent blink*

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - There are still Americans there. And arguably, a lot of Iraqis don’t want them there. So that point makes no sense. Similarly, have you even read the Bible and the Quran in their entirety to make these assumptions? Honestly, talking with you on these subjects is useless. I condemn what those people did on 9/11. But it sounds like you don’t even care about what McVeigh did, and he belonged to a Christian terrorist organization. What do you say in his defense?

    @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I’m a Muslim and I was born here so screw you, I am not a guest of this country, if I live here and I get the same rights as everybody else in America. I will not be treated like a second class citizen.

    @mtngirlsouth - If you think that all Muslims belong to a same creed that seemingly promotes violence then perhaps you should educate yourself and read some Qur’an in its whole context. It would probably alleviate this rather irrational fear you have of American Muslims.

  • Your first mistake is using the term Muslim. There is a difference between Muslim and Arab. Muslims reside across the world. Muslims died in the towers. Muslims responded to the towers to try and save lives. Yes there are Arabs in the Middle East who were glad to see us take a hit. It is ignorant of Americans to think that our country is perfect and that it hasn’t obtained the power it has by having sold its soul. There is a reason why some country’s hate us. Leave it up to FOX news to play over and over video that only inspires more hate. Fox news is only good for peddling hate. 9/11 was a political attack. That’s what terrorism is. Religion is just a tool used by masterminds of the attack to amplify the effects of the event and get more people to support the cause. Islam really is a peaceful religion but just like Christianity there are those who would use it as a weapon.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - you might want to read up on the history of Christianity and its attempts of conquering and ethnic cleansing. As for terrorism, yes there are Christian terrorists. IRA and sects of the Ku Klux Klan are just two examples.

  • This post took balls. I’m rather impressed, Dan.

  • @TheCrimsonSlash - No, I noticed your wording. 3000 people is Still an insignificant number when compared to other tragedies aside from the lynching of coloured people in your nation. Start comparing it to the rest of the world and it is nothing at all. Quit harping on this 9/11-zomg-terrorist-war-propaganda bullshit. Everyone should be moving forward and be more concerned about those who are CURRENTLY SUFFERING not those who have suffered and already been turned into a pile of soot.

    Oh, sorry to intrude, I’ll let you get back to your involuntary celibacy. ;)

  • @SilentWolf86 - There is no Christian doctrine that advocates killing of non-Christians or killing at all.  Murderers of all sorts use religion to justify murder.  But in the case iSLAM there is a huge and very powerful element of it that advocates murder.

    Additionally, all of iSLAM believes in the unity of church and state and the institution of sharia law.  I don’t think Westerners really understand what a threat iSLAM is to them.

  • @elvish_fairy - Really, so if my parents had been living in Saudi Arabia when I was born would that make me a Saudi?  You may have been born here but you are not OF here.  You have absolutely nothing to do with the culture that founded this country, and you are probably working to undermine it. 

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - 

    Islam is just as
    peaceful as Christianity. The Quran does not promote murder. The problem
    as I stated before is not Islamic doctrine but Arabs who have hijacked
    the religion, deformed it, and used it as a method of recruiting
    followers for an otherwise sacrilegious movement.

    Not all Muslims
    believe in the unity of church and state much less follow it. You are
    right in that Westerners do not understand Islam or the Arab world. In
    fact most Americans don’t understand much of anything about the rest of
    the world because they have resigned themselves to their day to day
    lives concerned about their car payment, their ipod, or who is getting
    kicked off American Idol. Part of the tragedy of 9/11 is that the
    majority of the U.S. population that didn’t give a shit about Islam or
    the politics of the Arab World received a wake up call and were
    introduced to the dark side of a whole other world that they previously
    never thought about. First impressions are everything. 9/11 was the
    worst possible first impression that many American received of the Arab
    World. This multiplied by the hate propaganda pushed by certain news
    networks and what you have is a religion that has been hijacked by
    heretic Arabs further misconstrued by the say-anything-for-ratings
    media. People fear what they don’t understand.

    The bad impression
    of the religion is even more amplified by arbitrary laws established in
    different Arabic country’s that may not necessarily be promoted by the
    Quran.

    The real threat to this country are the politicians who
    have used this event as an excuse to destroy the constitution and
    cripple essential freedoms provided by it.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - write it as iSLAM one more time, I will cyber beat you. CHILLLLLLLLLLLl child.

  • @SilentWolf86 - Neither is there is anything in Christian doctrine that advocates ethnic cleansing. From the very beginning, Christianity assimilated all races and ethnicities. Christianity champions life, justice and charity.

    As a matter of fact the Catholic Church works diligently to make sure that the Mass and the Bible are spoken and written in as many dialects and languages as is needed.

    Christianity is the dynamo that powered the rise of the West, the greatest civilization in human history.

  • @nikkijayxoxo - Your threating to beat me and I’m the one who needs to chill?

    iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM iSLAM

    Now go chill out.

  • @SilentWolf86 - That just isn’t the case.  The Jihad that swept out of Arabia in the 7th century wiped out Christianity in lands that had been Christian for centuries.  iSLAM has terror networks working worldwide.

    When was the last time a Christian military officer pulled his gun and slaughtered several of his fellow soldiers in the name of Jesus?  There are no Baptist or Catholic terror networks.  There are no Christians flying airliners into skyscrapers in Dubai.

    What Western nation makes iSLAM illegal to practice?

    If iSLAM were the religion of peace its members would rise up like Christians do and purge themselves of its murderers.  There would be worldwide condemnation of Muslim terrorists.  But instead the Muslim world celebrates 9/11.

  • @bettinatron - 

    I don’t care if they do. I don’t care if they live or die. They’re maggots, idiots who think their foolish indignation gives the right to oppress fellow citizens.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - You seem to forget that America is supposed to be a salad bowl. Saudi on the other hand is not, nor do they ever claim to be. Oh, speaking of which, yes I think you would be considered Saudi even so if you were born and raised there.

    Are you saying that America is a place where white people only are supposed to live? Does that mean that you don’t support Asians, Buddhists, Jews, blacks etc. here? Because you know, at one point white people undermined America’s so called “culture” by making blacks into slaves transporting a “land of the free” into a racist place of slavery. Do you know what else white people did? They almost eradicated a whole race that was living here before. Do you know what a Native American is? They were people that used to live here before the whites killed them off. So if you think that I’m an outsider because we promote hatred, think about what your own race and religion has done.

    So please shut up. I am American. I was born and raised here. You can’t tell me otherwise, because my passport itself says so. And you should know that Islam is a religion not a culture. There is a difference between the two.

    Oh and you should also know that Arabs in general were the first people to think up what a democracy was. In fact, if you actually knew your history, John Locke’s ideas were heavily borrowed from Arabian ideas. Do you know what the Constitution was based off of? John Locke’s ideas. So I’d say Arabia DOES contribute to what America is today.

    Good day.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    So only white people are “real” Americans? Who gave you the right to decide which citizens “belong” here?

    Go fuck yourself. Millions of minorities and foreign-born American citizens put on uniforms everyday to protect your rights and freedoms.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Haha. I guess you didn’t understand my original comment fully. I was simply stating that if Muslims want to lessen bigotry against them, they need to recognize the benefits that America has done for them and not just the drawbacks. They also need to be cognizant that they too have practiced discrimination against others, like in Saudi Arabia.

  • @elvish_fairy - Bull, you know that no Saudi would ever consider me a Saudi.  A salad bowl is not a country, and you can’t build a country from widely disparate groups.  It’s funny how liberals and Moslems always cry racist though.  I love Asian and Indian women, and I support Jews and Israel.  As for who I like and who I don’t like, I like whoever is on my side, and I don’t like whoever is not.  That’s simple enough I think.  I welcome anyone to the US who is compatible with the ideology upon which this country is based.  Islam is an ideology which is antithetical to that.  You all have enough countries of your own, and they may be awful, but they’re awful because that’s how Islam has made them. 

    I have no sympathy for anyone who wants to hate on white people.  I had to listen to enough of that crap growing up in the public school system.  Without white people there would be no electricity, computers, internet, cars, or myriads of other conveniences which you take for granted.  Of course there would also be no Al Aqsa because the equipment they broadcast would never have been invented, and neither would Mickey Mouse.  In any case, there are tons of Native Americans left, most of the people from Central and South America are the native stock although in some countries they’re mixed.  And you know what?  They’re all clamoring to get into the US because what we have is better than what they have.  In North America white people tend to outnumber natives but this is due to massive immigration from Europe not from Native Americans being wiped out.  I never hear any liberals complaining about how the Japanese wiped out the Ainu (because the Ainu were white), and I never hear you Arabic speaking Moslems complain about what you’re doing to the Kurds (who are white and Indo-European).  Also you people are notorious for hating on Iranians.  There are lots of white people in Islam, like Kurds, Pathans, and Berbers, because of the Islamic conquests of foreign countries and supression of native cultures there.  I left the Iranians out because many of them are turning away from Islam for many good reasons. 

    Islam is indeed a culture, whether or not it’s a religion is negligable. 

    Before Islam Arabs had a tribal society, and they were friendly desert dwelling nomads.  The Greeks had democracy, and some Native American tribes had a form of Democracy. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Hey, I wasn’t even talking to you but way to be a liberal.  You completely ignored everything I said and called me a racist, typical left wing behavior.  As I told that other girl, there is a very simple pattern to who I like and dislike.  I like whoever is on my side, and I dislike whoever is not.  Surely that is simple enough even for a liberal.  I don’t mind immigration so long as the people who are coming are compatible with the ideology upon which the US was founded, but people of antithetical persuasions ought to be kept out.  I’m against Islamic immigration and I would like to see a massive reduction on immigration from Mexico.  But I’m all for immigration from India, East Asia, and Europe (so long as they aren’t leftists).

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - And just to elaborate, I don’t consider you to be a real American even though you’re white.  You’re probably one of those flag burning types or people who would sit around and do nothing while Marxist and Islamofascist nutters burn a flag in your neighborhood. 

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Christianity can hardly be considered a champion of life, justice, and charity in all situations. The Church has assimliated races and ethnicities through force and oppression as well as through good “marketing”.

    The Catholic Church works diligently to make sure the Mass and Bible are spoken and written in so many languages to spread its power and influence. It has nothing to do with saving lives. Its political and power based mission.

    The West rose through the innovations of those who were not blinded by dogma and superstition. It also rose as a result of those who were willing to learn from other cultures in the East as well.

    The word terrorism is defined by an act whose central motivation is used to effect political changes in a government or society. Military campaigns are not acts of terrorism. So get that straight.

    If you want to go that far back in Islamic history then you need to understand that Islam was in some parts based on a nomadic society because of the environment that Arabs lived in. In the Quran it is considered taboo to injure another member of the Islamic community so Muslims could not legitimately invade other members of the Islamic world. As a result you had Arabs invading other parts of the world where Jews and Christians resided. Not because they were Jews and Christians or “People of the Book” as they were referred to, but because it was a necessity to survive as part of a nomadic society. The Church took offense on religious grounds while the Arab world was merely waging war for no religioius reasons.

    As for Christian war crimes I’m sure plenty were committed during the Crusades which by the way may have been “holy wars” officially were probably waged for economic reasons as there were economic benefits to holding Jerusalem.

    Why would Christians fly airliners into skyscrapers when they can send blackhawks, tomahawk missiles, and elite soldiers to level a country?

    There are many western countries that ban Islamic practices. I believe France or some other European country has a ban against headdresses.

    You are using too many absolutes. The entire Muslim world does not celebrate 9/11. You need to quit watchin FOX news. Muslims were killed in the towers. Muslims responded to the towers as firefighters, policeman, and all other kinds of volunteers.

    Get your shit straight you chauvinistic, hypocritical, racist.

  • @zionlover - 

    What can a Muslim American do to change Saudi Arabia? You’re blaming people for things they have no power to change.

    Instead of drawing parallels with Arabian monarchies, why don’t we just respect our own constitution and let them build?

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    You don’t have the right to decide who is and is not a “real” American, nor do you have the right to pretend to dictate immigration policy.

    Go ahead and get angry, you stupid trash, it’s all you can do.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - The real Americans are those who are closest ideologically to the people who founded the US, and who share the principles upon which it is based.  The farther someone is from that ideological basis, the less American they are.  Liberals are traitors or people who support traitors.  You’re not even denying your flag burning associations.  “To pretend to dictate immigration policy”?  What?  That comment makes no sense, all I have done is say how things ought to be. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - I’m blaming people for not understanding that we’re all molded from the same fallible material. Why don’t we just drop this, dude? You don’t seem to want to grasp the point.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    Real Americans like Thomas Jefferson? You’re just another under-educated hick who thinks he’s smart and informed because he watches Glenn Beck.

    “No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor… otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief…” –Thomas Jefferson

    My what? Flag-burning associations? You’re channeling McCarthy now, you gutless piece of shit. I bet you wouldn’t have the balls to call out my patriotism to my face. You’re just some creep spewing racist propaganda from his mom’s basement.

    Go back to watching your WW2 documentaries, Teabagger trash.

  • @zionlover - 

    If we’re all molded from the same fallible material, then building the Cordoba House shouldn’t be a problem.

    Glad we’re in agreement.

  • I always wonder, for the people that hate the USA (not just Muslims), why do you live here?  Ok, you were born here because your parents wanted to live here and raise a family here.  But you’re an adult.  Leaving is an option.  You don’t even have to spend much money to leave.  Get in your car, or in a cab, or on a bus, or freakin pack your shit in a bag and walk to Canada or Mexico.

  • I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, Dan, but you got it right at the end: 9/11 should be a day of mourning, not an opportunity to make political statements. Burning a symbol that’s important to someone else is just unnecessarily divisive, whether it’s a holy book or a country’s flag. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - What makes you say we’re in agreement? You can’t even understand English when I ask you to drop this. Don’t bother replying. I’m blocking you.

  • There is an old saying “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”, it’s unwise to turn our backs on radicals of any creed. If some moderates feel that is too invasive I direct them to the statement above. Vigilance has foiled hundreds of attempted terror attacks in the last nine years. To deny connections that are outright is folly, to generalize a group of people is also folly. There must be a balance assigned, a forgive but don’t forget mentality. History is doomed to repeat itself when we lose sight of its lessons.

  • Amen

  • The news caster said that it was Palestinians celebrating it. If you knew anything about the situation in the Middle East, you would know that the Palestinians felt, and still feel, isolated and rejected thanks to the Americas. When the Jews got Israel, many Palestinians were displaced. And Americans supported and celebrated that. And most Palestinians are still displaced. So you can’t really blame THEM for celebrating. They had to suffer thanks to our decision to “support the Jews.” Because, in case you didn’t know, Jerusalem, in Israel, is historically the “holy city” for both religions. For different reasons. And therefore, caused a lot of fighting over who gets the land for their religious purpose. And in the end, the Jews got it and thousands were displaced.

    However, non Palestinian Muslims (and especially American Muslims) are not being shown celebrating. Because they do not feel personally harmed by us. It’s only that small group. Again. The same way that only a small group is trying to hurt us. IE, your logic here is flawed and there is no excuse. Period.

  • @versatil - yepyepyep. Good comment.

    @Southeast_Beauty - This is what I’m thinking. It’s being talked about as if it’s one and the other, “us vs. them.”

    @mtngirlsouth - It gets tiring being looked at as if you’ve got something to be guilty about when you don’t. Of course it affects me. Hate and intolerance affects me as a Muslim and many others. That’s what causes me harm and that’s how I should care. It affected this man, didn’t it? Do I have to not care until I’m attacked?

  • @tokyoexpressman - Thank you. That was a brilliant comment.

    @autumn_cannibal76 - People would call taqiyya.

    @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - How long will they need to live and be born here until they’re no longer guests? Or never? Your attitude is disgusting.

  • @OhItWontBeForever - Why is sus[icion being put on a par with hate?

  • @mtngirlsouth - Because one can lead to the other.

  • @elvish_fairy - Actually I own one and I have. How in the world is my reading one going to change the minds of terrorists? And given the history of every single country that is dominated by Muslims, how is my suspicion irrational? And you should learn the difference between fear and suspicion. 

  • I have not forgiven the EXTREMISTS for 9/11 yet but i do not care about Muslims and I do not blame them as a whole for 9/11. its obvious when 9/11 first happened I did hate them, i think everyone did because it was just such a shock and brutal thing (not saying we Americans are nice and sweet too) but i also believe we don’t necessarily kill innocents on purpose as what I saw happen on 9/11.
    Personally I hate all extremists and I wish we could single them out but we cant.
    @AceValentineRocks - i dont necessarily think its about getting even, that sounds very juvenile. we were in a war with terrorist and if anything we are helping their government as I type this. How much money have we sent out to other countries in times of need? and tell me how many countries gave us help in times of need?  I’m definitely not saying it is right of us to kill men women and children. Its hard for us to just stop and leave this war and hope yano MAYBE it won’t happen again. its never-ending and it sucks but it is not all our fault just for retaliating.

  • @rddj623 - agreed :)

  • PS: after reading comments about the building of the mosque and burning of the Koran :P heres my opinion on that.

    First of all I would HATE anything that was built near the towers, even if it was a church etc etc. So yes, I don’t believe they should be allowed to build a religious sanctuary around that area, let alone ANYTHING. It is a slap in the face for anything to be built there. ://

    As for the burning of the koran I am totally against it. I’ve had my experience with christians, all of them bad (tho I know there are good Christians) and these are the type of Christians I absolutely cannot stand the HYPOCRITES. (I.E. pearching of good moral qualities etc) Yeah blah blah freedom of speech etc etc. but seriously WTF? why SHOULD we let something this outrageous happen when we KNOW something bad will come from it?! if it did go on, the burnings, do you think that if the extremists were offended (ofc) they would only target that group? NO. everyone seems to throw freedom of speech in the air when they want to do something completely ignorant! Sometimes I believe we need that right taken away especially when some big consequence can come about because of it.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - Wow, it’s funny how ignorant you sound. It’s also funny how it seems like you’ve never traveled to Saudi. I have been there multiple times, and I’ve seen more than just Arabs there and even Christians and people of other faiths. It sounds like all you’ve heard about Saudi is what you’ve seen by balancing a beer bottle on your belly while watching television. Go educate yourself by actually going there. While I do agree that most of the population in Saudi are Muslim Arabs, there will always be a minority of others.

    America ITSELF claims to be a salad bowl. If you don’t understand what that term means, then once again, I highly suggest you go educate yourself once again. Once you do, you’ll see that your point is, once again moot.

    So you like Asian and Indian people? Then I think you should know that I am Indian Muslim. You can’t like one part of me and not like the other.

    I am a Muslim, yet in no way would I ever dream of burning an America flag. I would however denounce something I don’t like such as some of the wars are going on, because if you think about it, that’s whay makes America so great; Freedom of speech. You claim that Islam is a fascistdictatorship, yet here you are calling me unAmerican because you think I disagree with some of the things America does. While I am thankful every day to be living in this country, I also do not agree with some things about it, just like every single person out there who has freedom of speech does and should. By saying I should agree with every single thing America currently represents, you’re imposing a fascist sort of view of America; That all of us should agree and bow down with what they say.

    I don’t hate on whites, and in fact I grew up in a mostly white school who actually RESPECTED me unlike you, but it sounds like you hate on people like me. It’s people like you who spew out words of ignorance that you see people in the East burning flags.

    I wish you could hear yourself. Then maybe you’d understand that your views definitely do not agree with America’s views or at least the ideology that it originally started on; that the Government should not be tampering with religion and culture. It seems like you are doing that.

    Oh, speaking of which, Islam is a religion, not a culture. If it WAS a culture, you’d see that Muslims would only be of one race but I think it’s a safe bet that every single race out there has at least a couple Muslims out there. You make no sense so I’m not even going to try and argue against you.

    I hope you understand how narrowminded you’re being and change your way of thinking. Good day. Oh, and speaking of which, the correct spelling of “Muslim” is in fact, “MUSLIM” and not “Moslem”. It just goes to show how little you know about us.

  • This is such a touchy subject.

  • I remember seeing that video. it was really hurtful to say the least.

    nobody thinks they don’t have the right to build what/where they want, but it’s totally inappropriate and insensitive to build it right there. nobody with good sense really thinks that American Muslims attacked us, but the terrorists did in fact attack us (all Americans, including the Muslim ones) in the name of Islam. I’m against both the Ground Zero mosque/center and the Koran-burning.

  • @mtngirlsouth - If reading a Qur’an does not change your opinion then it must mean that you already pretty much read the whole thing, are familiar with it and then you should know that the religion is surprisngly similar to Christianity’s Bible or the Jew’s Torah. And that must mean you actually don’t care about the religion itself, but the people who adhere to it.

    Fear and suspicion are pretty much almost the same thing if you’re looking at it in this context. If you are suspicious of something or some one for no rational reason fear is usually the reason for it. Why else would you be suspicious of something? In this case at least, you do fear us. Which you probably shouldn’t.

    By saying that you racial profile every single Muslim on the street that dresses like a Muslim would, it is definitely irrational because while the media suggests otherwise, you’d be surprised that there are many Muslims who are generally accepting people. In my Muslim community, I can only think of one family who might fit your “extremist” definition and even then, while the women in their family do wear jilbaabs and are always accompanied by men, they would never dream of blowing up a building.

    Have you taken a serious history class? Then you would know that a lot of countries back then that were conquered by Muslims were actually for the better. I only need name Spain. Of course you could cry out that what the Muslims did there was terrible, but the Christians did similarly horrible things such as the Inquisition. No Christian ever realizes that the Inquisition in Spain ever existed, yet that is a terrorist organization if I ever saw one back in the day. Yet I don’t think you suspiciously eye every single person who calls themself a Christian. The same thing with Jews. Israel shouldn’t even have to exist because they illegally occupied Palestine. By slowly taking away Palestinian rights, they are no better than what our history was tainted with. Do you suspiciously eye every single bearded Jew that dons a kippot? Just because men who’ve had anal sex are supposedly more prone to contracting HIV, does that mean that you should avoid contact with all of them? That is the point I’m trying to make.

    Believe it or not, and I know it’s hard to believe, and it may come as a shocker, not all Muslims, especially the ones living in America (You’d be hardpressed to find an American Muslim, somebody who is Muslim and was born and raised in America that is) think about blowing up buildings.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - you are just so mature, I wish I was you.

  • @elvish_fairy - Please tell me what my interpretation of the Qu’ran has to do with the fact that the people who blow things up and read the same Qu’ran come away believing that they are Muslim? The reason for my suspicion is clear, and very rational. If there were no real reasons for it, then it would be irrational. I just read a comment by a man who, on his own site says he is Muslim. He says, “people like you make people like Osama crush your buildings ………you are so arrogant that you need to die” And then there is the fact that, as a commenter to my blog said, “the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim; the attempted shoe-bomber was Muslim; the DC-area sniper was Muslim; the attempted underwear bomber was Muslim; the Madrid train bombing was done by a Muslim; the taxi driver running down people in California was Muslim; the Texas shooter at a military base was Muslim;” Do we see a pattern here? And, by the way, it only takes one to kill thousands. The suspicion is not irrational. Why does this suddenly mean that I am incapable of ever liking one of them, or being kind to them? The fact is that Muslim’s rule by the sword. Believe me, a can comprehend that not all of them are violent!!!!!! But I will not just trust them off hand. That is the way it is. Because of what Islam represents around the world. I did not make it that way. You did not make it that way. But it is that way. 

    The difference between the crazy things that people who call themselves Christian do, and the crazy things that people who call themselves Muslims do, is that globally, Christian leaders everywhere publicly come down on those people, but Muslim leaders everywhere do NOT do the same thing. This blog mentions what they do. That is a huge difference! Not to mention the fact that I could walk down the street in nations where the religion is predominantly Christian, just as I dress here, and be perfectly safe. I cannot do that in Muslim countries, and you know this is the truth. All that adds up to very rational suspicion. 
    As to your last comment, I am well aware that ESPECIALLY American Muslims do not think about blowing things up. That is because here the law is not guided by Islam. In nations where it is, things blow up all the time. I

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Undereducated hick?  Hardly, I speak perfect English and I have 2 degrees.  What is your level of education?  Probably not very high.  Maybe a GED.  At any rate, if I ever did meet you in person I absolutely would call you out.  I’m not any more frightened of a self absorbed metrosexual liberal psuedo-intellectual than I am of a miniature poodle.  You amuse me. 

    Thomas Jefferson was a good guy, but I fail to understand what point you are trying to make by quoting him.  The fact is, you’re a self centered liberal who wants to destroy the economic and cultural system the founders established with your socialism and polymorphous perversion.  Need I say any more?

  • @mtngirlsouth - Muslim leaders also condemn the actions of Muslims. I can name at least four that I know personally, and then there are many more whom I have not met but I know denounce terrorism. You just haven’t looked for these people. Once again, you look to the main news sources rather than all sides of the story. If you actually did some research, then once again, you’d see that many Muslims, in fact the mast majority do not even associate those terrorist organizations to Islam. They don’t even believe that they are Muslim. Ask any Muslim down the street whether they believe that these terrorist organizations were misguided, or in fact not even Muslim and they’ll give you the same answer. Are you saying that I, a Muslim, do not denounce those terrorist organizations? Believe me, I do because every single day of my life, I wake up and I know that there are people like you who exist and stereotype us all. It makes me hate what they did, not to mention the fact that they put such a bad image on Islam in general.

    So what of the Columbine shootings? The V-Tech shootings? The Nigerian genocide of Muslims that are going on right now? To be honest, those killings going on in Nigeria are way more fueled by religion than anything else that you listed above because the ones that you listed above didn’t target one religion, one race. They killed who ever they could, including Arabs, including Muslims. The Nigerian killings on the other hand were done by a Christian group who ONLY singled out Muslims. 500 Muslims died. No other religion. Regardless, the acts of violence that I listed (And there are many more) Those all were not done by Muslims. What of the Oklahoma bombings? Was he Muslim? What about what the US is doing to Afghanistan and Iraq right now? The fact of the matter was that when America first invaded Afghanistan they didn’t give two shits about the people that lived there. They bombed the whole place, destroyed everybody’s lives that lived there, all to get one man? So many people have died at the hands of one country. America. But of course you wouldn’t view them suspiciously, now would you?

    And you can’t even bring up that comment about what that guy said. This is the internet. People have said worse things and don’t even mean it. I’ve heard so many things said against this one blogger before he quit, DearRicky, which was worse than what that guy said. But of course, you don’t care. Just because that guy is Muslim, you’d racial profile him. While I do agree that what he said was distasteful, many people before him have said things worse in a fit of anger, the way he just did. So don’t even bring up that argument with me.

    I already addressed your comment about reading the Qur’an. Clearly, you have nothing against the religion, but rather the people who adhere to it, which is what i had said earlier. And that’s okay. Every single religion though, every single race has their own quacks. Islam doesn’t have any more or less, but it does get the most press coverage when those quacks show up.

  • @elvish_fairy - You dare to impune me?  I am a Christian conservative, I never drink, have sex, or mess with drugs.  I am physically fit and actually rather resemble Adonis.  Yes I know that SA has Indian and black African workers, all Moslem.  There are some foreign workers from the US who live in enclosed communities and practice non-Islamic faiths but they are not allowed to discuss it with actual Saudis.  I have never been to the Middle East, it’s true.  Maybe if I ever feel depressed and suicidal I’ll go there, but right now I don’t feel like having my throat slit.  The only country I would ever visit in the Middle East is Israel.  Israel is safer and more advanced technologically and socially because it’s controlled by Jews rather than Moslems.

    No no, that salad bowl crap is liberal rhetoric.  Not anything people of my ideological persuasion agree with.  You come to the US, you assimilate, that’s my view.

    I think Asian women are hot.  BoA and Nami Tamaki are my dream girls.  I like Indians but not Pakistanis.  All my Indian friends were Christian or Hindu and they all shared my views about Islam and terrorism.  I actually want to marry an Indian woman, but only one who shares my religious views.  Moslems I don’t consider to be true Indians. 

    Yes yes, you probably hate Israel, and you probably voted for Obama.  Moslems always vote Democrat and I know why.  I used to have a Saudi friend with dual citizenship, and he told me that he voted John Kerry because all his loyalties were to the Middle East and he didn’t want America to be strong.  That’s what I call hostility and anti-American.  That’s another reason I don’t like Moslems, because you’re in bed with western liberals which is another group I dislike.

    Government should not be tampering but that doesn’t go for citizens.  You have come to a country that is not your own and not your culture.  If you want to have a mullah chanting out over a loudspeaker 5 times a day people in your community might just get upset with you.  Also you have to keep in mind that you are affiliated with the people group who attacked us.  If I was a Jew I wouldn’t expect to be treated well in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia (well, Jews aren’t even allowed in SA), even though technically it’s the Moslems that are attacking the Jews.

    Culture is not the same thing at all as race and you know it.  You can have people of different races belonging to the same culture, and people of the same race belonging to different culture.  Russians are white but they sure aren’t the same culture as people from England.

  • @elvish_fairy - I never said that Muslims are the ONLY people who are violent. Which Muslim ruled nation is peaceful?

  • @mtngirlsouth - Oh and by the way, in Turkey which is a Muslim country, you can wear whatever you’d like. Same thing with Dubai, and Pakistan. Granted, you’d get a lot of stares in those countries but you can do it. You might get some backlash, but honestly I get backlash here for wearing hijab even though this is a free country so once again, your comment is baseless.

    And speaking of which, in France a place built on freedom of speech as well I’m not allowed to wear whatever I want. I’m not allowed to wear the niqab or wear my hijab to any public school. How would you respond to that? These kinds of restrictions exist in every country. Just because you cannot understand the implications of not wearing whatever you’d like doesn’t mean jack.

  • @elvish_fairy - Which Muslim country is peaceful? 

  • @mtngirlsouth - Turkey. Dubai. Jordan. Saudi’s allies with the US, did you know that? In fact, one of the princes of Saudi is the second largest stockholer of of Fox News. Those are the only three that come to mind. Afghanistan used to be an ally of the US, before Al-Qaida, and before the US blew up their villages. Similarly, Chechnya, Bosnia and many other Muslim countries you’ve probably never heard of are neutral with America. There are a lot of Muslim nations out there who wouldn’t really care about America, if only America would stop butting in their own affairs. Every single Muslim country that hates America, is usually because America has tried getting involved in it. Iran. Pakistan. Iraq. Kuwait. All these countries America tried meddling in their affairs. If we’d let them alone they wouldn’t have such a huge problem with us.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I am not a true Indian? Both my parents were born in India, thank you very much, both from South India as a matter of fact… Though you probably wouldn’t believe it because they’re actually less dark than South Indians. But that’s besides the point. The point is, is that Muslims do exist in India, though they are a minority. As you’ve probably never traveled to India, you wouldn’t see it, but every time I visited (Which is usually every other year) there wouldn’t be a day where I wouldn’t spot at least one. You sound so ignorant saying that I, nor my parents whose grandparents, great grandparents etc. are not a “true” Indian that I’m wondering if you’re trolling or not. Probably are. And you are aware that Pakistan used to be a part of India, right? We pretty much look the same, except that some Pakistanis probably have lighter skin… Whatever.

    Your Hindu and Indian friends share the same views as you? Good for you. I personally couldn’t see you being friends with somebody who didn’t. I have many Indian friends who are NOT Muslim who disagree with your views.

    I’m just going to stop arguing with you. Once again, you don’t represent America, America itself does and the ideologies that surround it. You may have an extremely narrow and shallow view of the world but you forget that this IS America where masjids, Muslims actually do exist and will continue to exist! If America was based off of YOUR ideology, then we’d cease to exist. Thank God we don’t live in your world.

    I’m not even going to comment on the Jew comment because like you just admitted you’ve never traveled there so you wouldn’t know. Even if, you’re comparing apples to oranges because America isn’t a religious country, but Pakistan etc. are. Point is moot.

    Good for you. You resemble Adonis. And I resemble Venus. /sarcasm

  • @OhItWontBeForever - I think Islam is disgusting, just like socialism.  I don’t understand why Moslems and leftists feel a need to swarm into free countries like the US when they have plenty of their own sufficiently jacked up countried they can stay in. 

    I don’t UNDERSTAND but I do KNOW why.  The goal is to destroy freedom everywhere.  They even say so in all the demonstrations and protests.  I can link you to videos of them saying so. 

  • @elvish_fairy - I did not ask who was allied with America, I asked which ones were peaceful. And out of about 30 Islam controlled countries, you can think of three. Turkey: Turkey is asecular statewith no officialstate religion; theTurkish Constitutionprovides forfreedom of religionand conscience. So that one is NOT a Muslim nation. Dubai : A simple search revealed: Concerned Dubai has become venue for violence And Jordan: Jordan actually seems to be peaceful AND they stand against terrorism. That is great, but it does not nullify the fact that in most countries when Muslims rule, people die frequently. Maybe if more Muslim countries were like Jordan, I would have no reason to be suspicious. Until then, I will remain so. So far, the only reasons I have been given not to be is that not all Muslims are violent, and a whole lot of intellectual bullying. 

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    Thomas Jefferson wanted this country to accept Jews, Christians, Muslims equally. He didn’t fall for the callous, backward, bigotry of religious intolerance. He understood that once you denied rights to a minority, you were letting in the door to tyranny for everyone. That is precisely why the Cordoba House is important; the principles of the constitution are more important than the indignation of fools. 

    Go ahead and get angry, get as furious as you like. It won’t do you any good because you cannot change what this country is all about. We are all free to believe and worship as we please without disruption. You have the right to your opinion, but your opinion doesn’t have the right to matter. Not more than the constitution, at least.

    Oh, wow, two degrees. Where did you get them from? Liberty University online? Some cheap degree-mill? You’re just a dime-a-dozen hack who gets his talking points from Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck. You have no real understanding of what this country was founded on, and I’ve probably forgotten more history than you’ll ever know.

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    That’s funny. Usually people like you argue America is a Christian nation, but how can you say that after you refuse to count Turkey as a Muslim nation?

    And, actually, the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims are not terrorists is a DAMN GOOD reason not to be suspicious of the entire faith. At least if you care about being a good person.

  • There is no way to excuse what happened on 9/11. However I do wonder about these Muslims who were celebrating. How much did they really know about the events of that day? How much do they even know about America? It’s the same about the reaction to that Florida pastor and his plans. Everyone in the developed world knows his actions don’t represent America but to these Muslims they probably think he does. That might not be true for all of them obviously but you do have to wonder how educated these people really are on America and it’s true values.

  • @mtngirlsouth - Suspicion is a farce. I’m not saying it always and I have no “statistic” for my claim, but neither do they for their suspicion. As tukha said it can lead to hate, once you’re in a mode of suspicion as well as do not care to actually understand your Muslim neighbor as a person… do you really think a bridge to understanding is going to be developed? No. We are set as “the other” until we assimilate, convert, or what-have-you. And even if we actually did it may not suffice. Or more to the point as per your exchange I haven’t done anything to be suspicious about pray tell why should I let others be suspicious about me? Islamically we’re actually supposed to avoid suspicion to the point we clarify something that shouldn’t even need to clarify, just to cut the person’s thought off from something that isn’t true (and thus keep each other from spreading rumors, distancing, dividing, etc.).

    If our heart isn’t dead then any sort of injustice will disturb us,  will bother us.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - LOL

  • @mtngirlsouth - And what of Malaysia? Have you even studied the history of “Muslim” countries? The Ottoman Empire was struggling to get itself straight and was turned inside out in the end by sellouts. Many nations fought for their freedom in the latter part of this just past century and are still struggling with corrupt regimes, many of which have some relation to colonial powers (assassinations and attempts at puppet leaders are nothing new whether it’s South America or the Middle East (e.g. Sadam & Osama)). More over many areas are steeped in cultural tradition distinctively against their own religion, authorities just allow it to continue and if they don’t they are stifled at what to do about it. 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Turkey has freedom of religion. Muslim countries are MUSLIM.

  • @versatil - What does any of that have to do with my being suspicious of Muslims? 

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - How does suspicion make me NOT a good person?

  • @mtngirlsouth - I have to agree with what Teufels said. America doesn’t consider themselves a Christian state. Neither does any other country consider themselves a “Christian” state for that matter. But Turkey is predominantly Muslim, was created based on Muslim morals, thus making them a Muslim-state whether you like it or not. They may formally not be a “Muslim country” but they still ARE Muslim because as I stated before the inhabitants that live there are mostly Muslim. Fail on your part.

    Did you even read the article talking about Dubai? Unfortunately for you, I have. I read the whole damn thing, so thanks for providing the link. And if you read it you’d see that Dubai actually catches the people who perpetrate these crimes. Do you know what that means? It means that Dubai does NOT support the so-called violence that’s going on there. The violence there that kills people is no different from the violence here in America.

     http://www.suite101.com/content/dubai-crime-and-the-city-a205448 Read the last sentence, or the whole article. A simple Google search has confirmed that while yes, Dubai is experiencing higher levels of crime (Which comes with any rapidly growing country, mind you) they still have the one of the LOWEST CRIME rates in the world. Again, fail on your part. Do better research next time.

    I have more countries that are predominantly Muslim that place higher on the list than the US based on the Global Peace Index. Want them? Qatar, Malaysia, Oman, Bhutan, Kuwait, Dubai, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, Albania, Tunisia, Libya, Burkina Faso, Bosnia, Indonesia, Morocco, Senegal, Sierra Leone and Gambia. So, what were you saying?

  • @ionekoa -  I like numbers too so let’s do number.

    1) “you said, as though it has never happened.”

    Not at all. Of course it happened. Of course it happens. It happens all the time. Happens to Christians, happens to Americans, happens to blacks, gays, asians, caucasians, immigrants, wealthy, poor, etc.  I even included examples of this kind of thing happening. Osama Bin Laden incorrectly blames all Americans including many innocent civilians for the crimes of our leadership. That was my point. We understand that this kind of conflation is utterly irredeemably wrong. Why do so many people not seem to understand equally easily that the same kind of conflation with regard to all muslims is just as wrong. The people building Park 51 did not do 9/11, have nothing to do with 9/11 and directly repudiate 9/11. So what’s the problem? Why is it different for them to build a building there than anyone else on the planet who ALSO had nothing to do with 9/11. I can think of no reason it is different, UNLESS there are a lot of Americans who apparently DO think that many or most or even all muslims share the blame for 9/11 and hence should be barred from American “holy land”.

    2) “i am suddenly an evil racist islamaphobe pervert that has no problem with a strip club in the same spot. did i say that?”
    Nobody said you were an “islamaphobe” either… Why would I say that? I don’t even know you.  The purpose of the “strip club” argument is that there ARE in fact strip clubs within the same vicinity of Ground Zero. Some are closer to Ground Zero than this Community Center containing a Mosque. Those Strip clubs are NOT being protested. There aren’t marches. There aren’t protests. There aren’t signs written to look like blood with the word “SHARIA” on it at said non-existent strip-club protests.  There aren’t angry commentators on television every day talking about how nobody should ever DARE to build a Strip Club near Ground Zero. Why not?

    The reason I am making this point is to stress that this is a MADE up controversy that exists to rile people up. Nobody cared about this mosque for months and months while it was planned and fully known to the public except for one random blogger (Pam Gellar). Even on Fox News they praised the project and it was considered a minor issue.

    It could have been strip clubs. Next time it probably will be strip clubs. But if it is, it would be equally as stupid and irrelevant an issue. Two blocks around Ground Zero is not hallowed ground. Neither is 3 or 4 or 5 or 1 block. It’s a business zone where people bid for property and land provided it passes the zoning laws and community regulations they get to build whatever they want. That’s how we’ve treated it for the last 9 years until all of a sudden this is such a “big deal”. If there is any “hallowed ground” at all, and I’m very skeptical of the very concept, it’s Ground Zero itself. Not the surrounding area.

    3)”but after seeing all of the lies(reference
    this paragraph) and all the phoney plays to emotion, i have lost a LOT
    of respect for the islamic community. a LOT. “
    While I’m not a part of the “islamic community” at all, and I hesitate to speak for them but I highly doubt that they care particularly about your level of “respect”. My guess is what they want is their community center which they have every right to build. And they probably want the society to treat them as equals.

    Lies and phoney plays to emotion?  Isn’t that EXACTLY what the Anti-Mosque protest movement has been doing? The whole controversy started as one big giant lie. The headlines read “Mosque at Ground Zero!” and “Ground Zero Mosque!” and even “9/11 Mosque!”  Such statements were directly and provably false.  The “Ground Zero” part was a flat out lie. The planned building they were protesting was two and a half large blocks or 1/10th of a Mile away from Ground Zero.  The Mosque part was misleading. What was planned was a large open to all community center with an open access prayer space and a Mosque within it. (It should be noted there are small mosques 4 and 12 blocks from Ground Zero already that have been there for years. Why is this one a big deal?)

    Other lies claimed by anti-mosque folks involve arguing that “cordoba” was some kind of cynical ploy to claim victory over the US. This was a flat out lie. First the place isn’t even going to be called cordoba house anymore. They changed the name to Park 51 in response to the made up controversy over the name. Now only the mosque inside the building retains the name “Cordoba”, and that’s because it is funded by a group that has always been known as the Cordoba Initiative. Secondly, Cordoba does not signify “conquest”. It was representative of a time when Jews, Christians, and Muslims worked together to build a center of knowledge in Spain. It’s not a “secret codeword”.  It was out in the open right in their public statements what the building was going to be named for.

    But the biggest lies revolve around smearing Imam Rauf as a terrorist or backed by “terrorist funders”. There is zero evidence for this according to fact check, media matters, or politifact. Indeed, Rauf was a guest on Fox News and other American news programs several times (strange for a radical) and has worked WITH the government of the United Stated under Bush AND Obama. (If he’s so dangerous how did he get security clearance?) And the main piece of evidence funding wise that Fox News constantly brings up is that Rauf is funded by “Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal”. A statement that really means almost nothing, but is especially ironic since said same Saudi Prince is in fact the second largest share holder in Fox News.

    Pam Gellar falsely accused Imam Rauf of blaming the “Jews” for 9/11.  Glenn Beck falsely claimed that Rauf’s wife said “all Americans hate Muslims” when in reality what she said was that hatred of Muslims in America was a cause of concern. A vastly different statement.

    As for phoney plays on emotion. Conservative talk show host Michael Berry said “I hope it’s blown up”. Cal Thomas suggested the community center was “a terrorist plot”. And many others based on no evidence at all have accused the Community Center of being a potential training center for terrorists  or a recruiting tool for terrorists. Ridiculous, unfounded statements designed to scare people. Pure and simple.

    If I had any respect for the right wing demagogues pushing this issue I would have lost all respect for THEM after observing this ridiculous contrived controversy. Unfortunately it’s just one of a long long line of them so I never had any respect for the likes of Pam Gellar and Glenn Beck to begin with.

    4) “no one is infringing on anyones first amendment rights by protesting the mosque. the first amendment clearly states “CONGRESS SHALL PASS NO LAW regarding”
    This is a common misconception. The First Amendment does not DEFINE the right of freedom of religion, it simply attempts to provide one safeguard to PROTECT that right (from government interference). But Governments aren’t the only thing that can interfere with the free exercise of religion. Popular protest and angry mobs and corporate interference and war and poverty can ALSO interfere with one’s fundamental right to practice religion unimpeded.  So yes, if I burn your church down, it totally is a Freedom of Religion issue even IF I haven’t violated your first amendment rights directly and you could not appeal to the first amendment for recourse. (You would of course appeal to arson laws instead) If I am a government and I pass a law that churches should be burned down, then you can appeal to the first amendment in trying to get said law overturned.  

    We have to keep in mind the distinction between the law and the underlying principle the law is meant to safeguard. The Right Wing understands this well when it comes to other issues. For example, when Sarah Palin and Laura Schlessinger were making a big fuss over protests against her using the “N-word”  several times on air being a big issue of “freedom of speech” they weren’t arguing that the Government had censored Doctor Laura. The Government hadn’t. That would be obviously false. She voluntarily stepped down as host of the show she owns because the outrage of the people directed at her was so tremendous. If she has any argument at all that her “rights” were violated it does not exist solely on first amendment grounds but based on the principle of free exercise of speech that we all deserve. There they have a point (barely) that a person’s voice can be unfairly silenced by the mob reacting angrily to a statement. That’s morally wrong, even if it has little legal significance unless it comes to her being physically caused harm or some government actually directly interfering with her speech. (Of course in truth I don’t think Doctor Laura was faced with any “big outcry” but really only stopped her show as a publicity stunt to garner sympathy. And really had there been an outcry it should have been for the many other racist, sexist, and messed up things she said that day and says on a daily basis, not her use of the “N-word” which in that context was probably not so bad. But that’s just my opinion. )

    With regard to Park 51, the Left argued two things.  1. That Mayor Bloomberg and the City Council and Congress and nobody else should pass any law or regulation preventing the building of this Mosque or otherwise bow to public pressure.  That’s Religious Freedom and property rights directly in accordance with the constitution. The Left made this argument because there were NUMEROUS calls to have someone in Government “STOP” this Mosque from being built long before the actual protests started.  And 2. The Conservative whipping up of a mob of anti-Islamic sentiment in an attempt to force Imam Rauf to change his mind and move elsewhere voluntarily was intrusive, offensive, and dangerous because it treats with such little respect the principles of Freedom of Religion and Religious Tolerance on which our country was founded. To say that people have the freedom to practice religion except in places the people decide we don’t want you is no true freedom of religion at all.

    But you’re right. Your “protest” of the mosque is perfectly within your rights. Just like KKK marches are within their rights. Just understand that Imam Rauf is in his rights to completely ignore you and build his community center with its mosque in it anyway. If he does you have no rational legal recourse. But if conservatives try to get a law past banning the building of the Mosque then it really will be a grotesque violation of the first amendment that any rational court I should hope would strike down without a second thought. I still wish people wouldn’t protest the mosque though because it makes America seem like an intolerant place to Muslims at home and abroad.

    5) ” i have been villified and had my
    intelligence insulted by ads of little children holding signs saying “im
    a muslim, please don’t hate me”. who are you to tell me who i do and do
    not hate? “

    This is really strangely touchy on our part. What part of that ad suggested that YOU in particular hate muslims? No part of it. Do you get upset when you see those ads with starving kids in African where they say “Please don’t let me starve”?  Do you immediately think, How Dare You Tell Me Who I Am Letting STARVE!! ?

    The ad just shows a kid saying “don’t hate me”. So what?  If you don’t hate that kid or any muslims than GOOD. Obviously you are already in compliance with the ad so you can rest easy knowing it doesn’t target you.

    But the ad DOES target people who certainly have expressed very nasty sentiments against Muslims that makes a great many Muslims FEEL as if they are hated. I have no doubt in my mind that some of those people in fact, DO hate Muslims. They hate Islam. They despise the religion and think it’s evil and anyone born into to be a danger to Americans and Christianity. How do I know this? Because they SAY so. Franklin Graham said that Islam is a “very evil and wicked religion” and Sarah Palin then defended him.  Ed Koch said that the “hundreds of millions” of Muslims who are “terrorists”,  “want to kill every Christian, every Jew, every Hindu who won’t convert”.

    But there’s more than their words too. Muslims can read the opinion polls too.  Here’s a recent Time Magazine article‘s take on American attitudes toward Muslims:

    “61% of respondents oppose the construction of the Park51/Cordoba House project, compared with 26% who support it. More than 70% concur with the premise that proceeding with the plan would be an insult to the victims of the attacks on the World Trade Center.”

    “Twenty-eight percent of voters do not believe Muslims should be eligible to sit on the U.S. Supreme Court. Nearly one-third of the country thinks adherents of Islam should be barred from running for President — a slightly higher percentage than the 24% who mistakenly believe the current occupant of the Oval Office is himself a Muslim. In all, just 47% of respondents believe Obama is a Christian; 24% declined to respond to the question or said they were unsure, and 5% believe he is neither Christian nor Muslim.”

    “While the poll revealed that prejudice toward Muslims is widespread, respect for other religious traditions remains sturdy. Respondents held the Jewish faith in the highest regard, with 75% professing to hold a favorable impression — just slightly higher than attitudes toward Protestants and Catholics. Fifty-seven percent say they have a favorable view of the Mormon faith, compared with 44% for Muslims.”

    When you see one in every 3 people around you thinks you shouldn’t be allowed to run for office or sit on the supreme court because of your religion and that your religion has the least favorable view of all major religions, can you not understand why a Muslim living in this country might fear that some the people might “hate them”?  Can you really not understand why someone would want to make that plea of “please don’t hate me?”.

    Well maybe abstract numbers are convincing, how about actual events?  Even ignoring the Anti-Park 51 rally’s that have been held where people hold up all kinds of offensive signs.  There are also cases of protests around the country against the building of Mosques. The Daily Show covered this well. But there were angry protests against the building of a Mosque in Stanton Island.  The Associated Press and the Washington Post have articles showing protests against Mosques in other places around the country. Or how about the fire ruled to be an arson set at a Tennessee Mosque soon after? Or this incident where a random guy walking through a protest is bullied under the unverified assumption that he might be a muslim. Not to mentioned the overly publicized threat to burn the Qu’ran and the actual Qu’ran burnings that were reported as having actually occurred on 9/11.

    So really, you can’t see why Muslims would feel any kind of urge to ask people “please don’t hate me?” If your intelligence is “insulted” by that
    plea, it was not intended. It was no secret conspiracy of the pro-mosque protesters to make YOU look bad. Those people
    actually DON’T want to be hated. That’s their honest feeling. And yet they feel hated? Why is that?
    If you in fact don’t hate them, maybe you should try to make an effort
    to make them understand that?

    And really, I’d say that too. Don’t hate me. If I saw that kind of negative sentiment expressed against my religion. I wouldn’t think that all of the protesters hate Muslims and certainly not that all white people or all Christians or all Americans hate Muslims. But I would certainly say that amongst those crowds of protesters there are those who have for whatever reason decided that they hate Muslims and they hate Islam and that they’ll do anything to attack it.

    Were I a Muslim living in one of these volatile communities where these protests are taking place, I’d be scared shitless. The fact that you say that you certainly don’t hate Muslims is well and good but that would hardly alleviate my fear.

    6) “i am told “you need to understand that these
    are extremists and they do not represent everyone”(as though i could not
    make that distinction myself), while in the same breath saying that it
    is america’s fault for her overseas policy(double standard much?)”

    Don’t know who you are talking about, but it surely cannot be me.  If you go back to read what I said, I explicitly mentioned that blaming all Americans for American foreign policy is exactly the same thing as blaming all muslims for Al Quaeda in terms of a an inappropriate and unfair conflation of ideas. And I’ve reiterated it here.

    But what you said is not what I said. Yes America in fact IS at fault for its overseas policies. Who else could be to blame? But all AMERICANS are not at fault. That’s the point I’m making. Bin Laden is the one who blames all americans for the faults of a few. It’s the same as those who blame all muslims for the faults of the few terrorists who acted on 9/11. It’s the same as blaming Christians for abortion clinic bombings. I don’t know how I can reiterate that enough. That was the whole point of my comment.  I didn’t write it to “insult your intelligence”.  Again, I don’t know you. But a heck of a lot of people damned well don’t get this point and think somehow blaming Muslims for 9/11 is somehow “different” because Islam is “inherently evil” or more “susceptible” to evil.  Those are the people I am talking to. And they exist. They are influential. And they are feeding this controversy.

    If you aren’t one of those people and have a real, rational reason to oppose this Mosque go ahead and state it and stop playing the poor misunderstood “victim”. We can argue the facts or we can play childish games of “how dare you suggest that I’m a racist!” and “stop picking on me!”

  • @elvish_fairy - None the less, even if all three were, THREE in THIRTY is not a good track record. And your bullying is not going to make me suddenly think that all the bombings and all the terrorists just don’t matter. For goodness sakes, all I said is I am suspicious. GET OVER IT. Suspicion does not hurt anyone. I will not be bullied into thinking that there is no threat. 

  • @nephyo -  “But you’re right. Your “protest” of the mosque is perfectly within your rights. Just like KKK marches are within their rights” it’s interesting that you say my rights are like those of the KKK. not “just as the muslims are within their rights to protest” see, you say “i never said you were a racist.” i call bullshit. you can call me childish and say that im playing games if you want to, i supposed you would know about playing games.

    you can dismiss my feelings, or any offence i have been caused because it helps you to simply state your opinion as though it were fact and anyone who dissagrees with you doesnt matter. you take a look at my picture, you see that i dissagree with you and imediately compare me to the KKK. here’s the problem though. i’ve never supported the KKK, never excused their actions or defended them in any way. i also never said that i was opposed to the mosque. my comment was directed entirely 100% at the way the conversation is being handled and had nothing to do whatsoever with wether or not the mosque should be built. as far as i am concerned it is a local issue. i think that if locally, the people feel it is a daily reminder of what happened that day(again, this is for THEM to decide) then i support their opposition and do not judge them for a visceral response to a profoundly traumatic experience. if they are ok with it, and support the building of the mosque then i say more power to them. i really don’t care about the building. the thing that concerns me is the way people are treating each other. and you are just as guilty as everyone else. but then, im white so i suppose i automatically hate muslims and oppose everything they want to do huh?

    ps, just because you don’t use the words, doesn’t mean you aren’t sending the message loud and clear, but i think you know that.

  • @mtngirlsouth - That was a response to a different comment of yours, not the one on suspicion.

  • @elvish_fairy - 

    The Turkey that exists today was created by Kemal Ataturk as a secular state. While most people there are Muslim, their constitution is secular.

    It’s just like the United States. Most of us are Christian, but the constitution is agnostic.

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    Suspicion does not hurt anyone.

    Liar. There is nothing more destructive to society.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristalnacht

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_internment_camp

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Those things went WAY beyond suspicion. But, thank you for proving exactly how your ilk loves to slant things. 

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    Hangman
    by Maurice Ogden

    1.
    Into our town the Hangman came,
    Smelling of gold and blood and flame.
    And he paced our bricks with a diffident air,
    And built his frame in the courthouse square.

    The scaffold stood by the courthouse side,
    Only as wide as the door was wide;
    A frame as tall, or little more,
    Than the capping sill of the courthouse door.

    And we wondered, whenever we had the time,
    Who the criminal, what the crime
    That the Hangman judged with the yellow twist
    of knotted hemp in his busy fist.

    And innocent though we were, with dread,
    We passed those eyes of buckshot lead —
    Till one cried: “Hangman, who is he
    For whom you raised the gallows-tree?”

    Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye,
    And he gave us a riddle instead of reply:
    “He who serves me best,” said he,
    “Shall earn the rope of the gallows-tree.”

    And he stepped down, and laid his hand
    On a man who came from another land.
    And we breathed again, for another’s grief
    At the Hangman’s hand was our relief

    And the gallows-frame on the courthouse lawn
    By tomorrow’s sun would be struck and gone.
    So we gave him way, and no one spoke,
    Out of respect for his Hangman’s cloak.

    2.
    The next day’s sun looked mildly down
    On roof and street in our quiet town,
    And stark and black in the morning air
    Was the gallows-tree in the courthouse square.

    And the Hangman stood at his usual stand
    With the yellow hemp in his busy hand;
    With his buckshot eye and his jaw like a pike
    And his air so knowing and business-like.

    And we cried, “Hangman, have you not done
    Yesterday, with the foreign one?”
    Then we fell silent, and stood amazed,
    “Oh, not for him was the gallows raised.”

    He laughed a laugh as he looked at us:
    “Did you think I’d gone to all this fuss
    To hang one man? That’s a thing I do
    To stretch a rope when the rope is new.”

    Then one cried “Murder!” and one cried “Shame!”
    And into our midst the Hangman came
    To that man’s place. “Do you hold,” said he,
    “with him that was meant for the gallows-tree?”

    And he laid his hand on that one’s arm.
    And we shrank back in quick alarm!
    And we gave him way, and no one spoke
    Out of fear of his Hangman’s cloak.

    That night we saw with dread surprise
    The Hangman’s scaffold had grown in size.
    Fed by the blood beneath the chute,
    The gallows-tree had taken root;

    Now as wide, or a little more,
    Than the steps that led to the courthouse door,
    As tall as the writing, or nearly as tall,
    Halfway up on the courthouse wall.

    3.
    The third he took — we had all heard tell —
    Was a usurer, and an infidel.
    “What,” said the Hangman “have you to do
    With the gallows-bound, and he a Jew?”

    And we cried out, “Is this one he
    Who has served you well and faithfully?”
    The Hangman smiled: “It’s a clever scheme
    to try the strength of the gallows-beam.”

    The fourth man’s dark, accusing song
    Had scratched our comfort hard and long;
    “And what concern,” he gave us back.
    “Have you for the doomed — the doomed and Black?”

    The fifth. The sixth. And we cried again,
    “Hangman, Hangman, is this the man?”
    “It’s a trick,” he said. “that we hangmen know
    For easing the trap when the trap springs slow.”

    And so we ceased, and asked no more,
    As the Hangman tallied his bloody score.
    And sun by sun, and night by night,
    The gallows grew to monstrous height.

    The wings of the scaffold opened wide
    Till they covered the square from side to side;
    And the monster cross-beam, looking down,
    Cast its shadow across the town.

    4.
    Then through the town the Hangman came,
    Through the empty streets, and called my name —
    And I looked at the gallows soaring tall,
    And thought, “There is no one left at all

    For hanging, and so he calls to me
    To help pull down the gallows-tree.”
    So I went out with right good hope
    To the Hangman’s tree and the Hangman’s rope.

    He smiled at me as I came down
    To the courthouse square through the silent town.
    And supple and stretched in his busy hand
    Was the yellow twist of the hempen strand.

    And he whistled his tune as he tried the trap,
    And it sprang down with a ready snap —
    And then with a smile of awful command
    He laid his hand upon my hand.

    “You tricked me. Hangman!,” I shouted then,
    “That your scaffold was built for other men…
    And I no henchman of yours,” I cried,
    “You lied to me, Hangman. Foully lied!”

    Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye,
    “Lied to you? Tricked you?” he said. “Not I.
    For I answered straight and I told you true —
    The scaffold was raised for none but you.

    For who has served me more faithfully
    Then you with your coward’s hope?” said he,
    “And where are the others who might have stood
    Side by your side in the common good?”

    “Dead,” I whispered. And amiably
    “Murdered,” the Hangman corrected me:
    “First the foreigner, then the Jew…
    I did no more than you let me do.”

    Beneath the beam that blocked the sky
    None had stood so alone as I.
    The Hangman noosed me, and no voice there
    Cried “Stop!” for me in the empty square.

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    Suspicion is how it starts. Stupid, fearful suspicion. People like you hung the “witches” in Salem, terrorized the Jews in Germany, and threw Japanese-Americans into interment camps.

    People like me never said anything when they had the chance, and look what happened. Not this time. Not ever again. I won’t let the indignation of fools trample the constitution.

  • @TheSutraDude - In spite of the minute details, I think it’s safe to conclude we both share the same general outlook. I agree with you that the taking of innocent blood is never justified. The only exception may be as collateral damage during wartime, to which we can at least claim it’s tragic if that. As you already know, terrorism knows no moral code when executed. Neither a nation’s virtues nor vices are considered when terrorists try coercing it for political gain. That’s the way it was on 9/11 when 3000 innocents brutally lost their lives. They paid a heavy price and we mustn’t forget. Thank you for your thoughts.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - I have a question for you. Did/do we belong in Iraq? Why or why not?

  • @zionlover - I thank you for your thoughts too.

  • @ionekoa - Apparently you’ve decided to keep playing the victim, yet again making stuff up about my beliefs and intentions in order to cast yourself as the victim of my vicious black liberal smears. lol. That’s fine. Those who read my comments and yours I think can clearly see that I never accused you of the things you say I did. And I can promise you the motives you imagine that I had in making the statements I made are entirely a matter of your imagination.

    I immediately compare protests of the Mosque to protests by the KKK because they are equally absurd but nevertheless allowed. It’s a point of logic. Trust me, I never once glanced at your “profile photo” and could care less what you look like. The point didn’t even have anything to do with you specifically except to agree with you. I’m not sure how you got that I thought or were suggesting that you supported the KKK or were a member of the KKK from that. I always use that example when I want to make the point that ALL constitutional speech should be protected. It’s the same point the ACLU constantly makes. They made the same point when arguing in favor of the citizen united decision and I agreed with them. And I would gladly march and fight to support the right of the KKK to protest. And I have argued that many times before. IF there is anyone saying that the Mosque people don’t have a “right” to protest, point them out to me and I will go all out against them.

    So I have the exact same perspective as you on the protests “right” to exist. They have a right to protest. They even have a right to be angry. And people have a right to protest against THEM too and to argue that their protests are in the wrong and cause harm and to be afraid as a result of observing those protests. They even have a right to hold up signs saying “please don’t hate me”. And you have the right to protest that if it upsets you. The question I am analyzing is the WHY of the protests. Not the right. I’m questioning their reason. I questioning why they are upset and why you are upset about the “please don’t hate me” sign which you stated clearly in your first reply to me.

    Where I disagree with you is in the idea that their anger is justified or rational or that we shouldn’t “question it”. That it’s just “their” issue. It’s not. Their anger is not rational. And it’s not just about them. It’s causing real measurable harm in alienating Muslims in this country and around the world and driving people apart. The whole controversy is based on lies and manipulations as I’ve described in depth. We have to fight those lies and the people who are lying. People are being played and I think that’s horrible and needs to be stopped. And the only way to stop it is to tell people the truth about it and not just keep making up excuses for people and saying everything they do is “fine” and that they “shouldn’t be judged”. Everything I’ve said is to that end.

  • @nephyo - i never said that their anger was rational. in fact, i said it was a visceral response. it’s anything but rational. you want to judge me and state that im “playing the victim”, but here’s the problem with that. im pointing out specific actions that offend me, and giving reasons as to why. i already acknowledged that i understand your need to disinfranchise and marginalize anything you dissagree with. it’s weak and pathetic, but i get that. also, “Apparently you’ve decided to keep playing the victim, yet again making stuff up about my beliefs and intentions in order to cast yourself as the victim of my vicious black liberal smears.” so, now it’s black against white? until this sentence i never knew what race you were, you’re covered up in your photo. freudian slips reveal alot about your true intentions. this is a portion of the conversation where you should stop before you get any further behind.

    my problem with the “please don’t hate me” sign is that it is for one sacryne(sp?) and two, dishonest. every time i see that i can’t help but think it is not targeted at it’s target. that may not make much sense so i will explain. 1) if you come up to me and say “please don’t hate me” you’re implying that i either do hate you or have a reason to hate you. if as you stated previously i do not hate, i am in compliance already, then there is absolutely no need to make this request it is a waste. unless, it is not for my benefit. if you come up to me pleading with me not to hate you, then the people who are overhearing the conversation are painted a picture that either i hate you, or feel i have reason to hate you. now replace “you” with an adorable sympathy inducing child.

    see, i’ve had this tactic used on me in my personal life, people complaining loudly about how much i hated them and was so mean to them and other certain individuals in order to produce an emotion in people around us to reach a certain goal. this, is what we would call “playing the victim”.  perhaps in the case of this comercial i am merely projecting my own experiences onto this. i concede this is possible, however, i doubt it. see, if people are going to hate a child because he or she is muslim, holding up a sign that says “please don’t hate me” isnt going to sway them. the only people that this would have any resonance with are the people who, as we have established, are already in compliance. it is a tool to mobilize them against others. a tool for seperation, when what is really needed is common ground.

  • @mtngirlsouth - 

    We never did. We invaded on false pretexts.

  • so poignant… very sad but true. racism still exists to this day.. and in forms other than race. hate to admit it but most of us look and judge even when we know its wrong and don’t want to. it’s hard when we hear about it or read about it cos it makes it seem more true

  • Seriously, I’m a Catholic in a Muslim region (Southeast Asia), and I have never heard ANYONE around me voice Muslim-extremist views. I think you just need to realise that no matter what  you’ve heard about the Muslim community on American TV, you don’t know anything about Islam or its followers.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - i think those examples are more assumption than suspicion juss sayingg

  • I cannot take sides as I am neither of the above mentioned. But I think there are problems on both sides.

    The Americans believe what they saw. Though, there isn’t any real proof about who did it. The government has lied before. And along with the Twin Towers, Building 7 also collapased. Why? No plane hit it and the explosion wasn’t big enough either. But then I suppose, grief and anger make people pass over facts. I completely understand that.

    And the Muslims. Well, I really did not get why do they have to build a mosque there. There of all places. It doesn’t make sense to me. And they were burning the American flag because their holy book was going to be burned. An eye for an eye. It was one man in Florida who planned it, yet not all Floridans were at fault. A select few Muslims are said to be the cause of 9/11, and yet all are persecuted.  

    Also, the video of the people cheering. That’s in East Jerusalem. Where the majority is Jews, not Muslims. And the two are very different.

  • Oi, guys, it’s not like he’s saying, “Muslims are evil let’s hate them, they all banded together to do this.” It’s more like… it’s understandable that any American would be afraid of or angry at the Muslim community considering the amount of people who were Muslim and celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent people. Their religion is the one thing they ALL have in common, so we associate it with them.

    Are all Muslims like that? No. But it’s an obvious and natural reaction to be more wary of people of that religion, because some people attacked us needlessly all in the name of that religion. It’s not like they had a political issue and just happened to be Muslim; they attacked us IN THE NAME OF THEIR FAITH. They were related.

    I am absolutely with you on this post, Dan. While I’m all for freedom of religion and wearing what you want and saying what you want and building what you want, I also value respecting others. I understand that not all Muslims are terrorists (most are not) but isn’t it obvious that it would be touchy to mothers, wives, sons who lost their loved ones in the name of Islam to build a religious center based on the very same religion in the near vicinity of the attack? I know it’s legal but it’s not at all considerate. And it is clearly not uniting the country or different religions in any way. People are getting upset.

    I think the best way to show that you’re not a part of such a group would be to sympathize a little, not throw your religion in their faces. Then everyone notices that you are truly an American, absolutely against terrorism, that your religion does not equal violence. Being a good person is the way to go; force and upsets tend to be counterproductive.

  • @elvish_fairy - I can say that because India is a culture, actually, it’s an association of similar cultures, not a race.  Punjabis and Tamils are both Indian but they look absolutely nothing alike.  So being Indian is obviously more than a condition of birth, it’s something else that makes one Indian, something cultural.  Your culture is Islam.  You won’t see Indians going out of their way to build a church of a Hindu temple over the birth place of Muhammad.  Or how about Jews bulldozing Mecca and building a huge synagogue right over the foundation?  No, nobody else in the world does that but Moslems.  Indian culture is one thing, Islamic culture is another.  Islam has a dress code, and cultural, ethnic, and even to a certain extent racial differences end up getting buried beneath turbans, Burkas, and hijabs. 

    I know that there are some south Indians with light skin, and some north Indians with dark skin.  Anyways, I’m wondering why your parents came to the US to be surrounded by infidels rather than move to Pakistan to be surrounded by fellow believers?  Maybe the Pakis don’t want you because you’re too dark for them?  That’s why they didn’t want the Bengals.

    The cultural basis for the US is Judeo-Christian values (not Islam or atheism), which includes freedom and personal responsibility.  Your culture is admits to being against freedom, they admit to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHecZHvej-I&feature=watch_response

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - Thomas Jefferson also didn’t approve of socialism or big government, and that’s what you like.  If he were alive today you would be hating on him just like you hate on all other conservative speakers and politicians.  I respect Thomas Jefferson but he didn’t have to deal with the enemies that we do today.  “Indignation of fools” my foot, if you knew anything about this history of Islam you would know that the way they commemorate their conquests is to erect a mosque on a religiously or culturally significant site to the people they attacked.  That is why they turned the Hagia Sophia in to a mosque.  That is why they built a mosque on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem which is holy to both Jews and Christians.  That is why they built a mosque over the birth place of prince Ram in India.  They do these sorts of things on purpose.  BTW, for someone who claims to have Spanish ancestry you are wantonly ignorant of Spanish history.  If you knew anything at all then you would know that the real Cordoba mosque was built over the site of a church that the Islamic Moors demolished upon their invasion of Cordoba.  There is a reason why they chose to call it “Cordoba House,” it’s because it’s an allusion to what they did in Cordoba.  I realize that, being a liberal, your main focus is to “stick it to the conservatives.”  You don’t really care at what cost, so long as the evil conservatives are getting pissed off.  But I digress, you never even bothered to think “why do they need to build a mosque near the 9/11 site?”  Those are the sorts of questions you should be asking yourself, not just sitting there laughing it up because conservatives are getting pissed.  Seriously, they can build their mosque elsewhere.  But first of all, they attacked us, and second, they tried to build a mosque commemorating those attacks.  I see that as a second attack but an attack from an ideological direction this time rather than physical.

    I have one degree from Georgia State and another from Kennesaw.  GSU was infested with liberals.  While I was there I used to get into arguments with all the left wingers and Islamofascists.  One day I went around behind one of the guys who used to stick up the anti-Israel fliers and tore them down and put them in the trash even as he was putting them up.  I realize that you’re just a high school dropout trying to make himself feel important by espousing an anti-american ideology (which you no doubt consider to be anti-establishment), but being anti-anything is not enough to make one an intellectual, no matter what the faggots from “Time,” “The New York Times,” “Aljazeera,” “wikipedia,” or Hollywood might tell you.  You are not special, you’re just another thoughtless cookie cutter (no pun intended) liberal who thinks he thinks for himself but really only thinks what he’s told.  “I’ve probably forgotten more history than you’ll ever know.”  Like the history of Cordoba for example?  Of course personally, I don’t think my degrees are a matter of boasting.  Maybe to someone without education it might seem impressive but it’s really not that hard to get a degree unless you are mentally challenged.  And a degree isn’t everything either, for example, my 18 year old sister isn’t even done with high school yet and she intellectually dwarfs a lot of the liberals I have argued with, and a lot of people in Congress as well. 

  • “Perhaps if you want people to view you favorably, you might want to stop burning our flag, stop cheering at the death of our citizens and it might be wise to think of other ways to avoid pissing on the graves of people at Ground Zero.  Maybe today should just be a day to mourn with us at the loss of our citizens.”

    Hopefully already been said, but American Muslims are the ones “crying foul” and we haven’t done any of that crap. So why don’t you go punish the people who actually do that stuff instead of taking it out on the ones who are geographically nearest to you?

  • Oh, also, we – American Muslims – don’t need YOUR forgiveness. We didn’t do anything to apologize for.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - I don’t belong to that culture that “freely admits to that”. You are once again using ONE group of people to represent a religion shared by hundreds of millions. And I’m not sure what that video is supposed to represent. I’ve seen plenty of Americans acting just as ugly.

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/greenwald-islamophobia-at-heart-of-mosque-protests/

    Do you also discriminate against all Germans just because that’s where Hitler was from?

    And while I give you props for knowing the difference between a Punjab and a Tamil, and that you actually can understand that India’s a diverse area, I’m still not sure I follow you. Once again you have failed to understand the difference between culture and race. Indians, no matter how diverse they are in looks still belong to a race (And it is generally accepted. But of course, in your rather delusional world, things are different). When you look at somebody from India you can usually tell they’re form there (Though there are exceptions). And actually Hindus have in the past razed mosques down in India and I admit, we’ve done it too to their temples on an even far greater scale, something that makes me sorry because many Indian temples are really a work of art that should be appreciated. They do not live in the place where Muhammad was born, so obviously they wouldn’t build a temple there. It doesn’t make sense. Also, not many Jews live in Makkah, so it wouldn’t make sense to bulldoze down the Ka’aba. Similarly, we’re not destroying anything. We are building in a location that wasn’t inhabited and isn’t even ON Ground Zero. Once again, comparing apples to spagetti this time.

    A lot of guys I know who are Muslim don’t wear turbans. And most Muslim girls that I know don’t even wear burqa, which actually originated in India (The image you see now, with woman swarthed in black cloaks). In fact a lot of Muslim girls that I know (Who are Pakistani, wouldn’t you believe?) don’t even wear the hijab here, nor do they when they visit Pakistan. Which goes to show that we can be just as diverse. We are not buried underneath burqas, turbans and hijabs. I’m actually part of the Muslim minority where I live who wears the hijab. Which was a personal choice, not because I’m oppressed.

    And my parents, like every other immigrant it seems came to America because it was supposed to be a land of equal opportunity. Don’t get me wrong, I love America, and I love everything it represents. I consider myself blessed for having such wonderful opportunities here… But at the same time I also believe that we should be treated as equals, the same as every person who migrated here legally and expects to be treated equally. To be honest, my parents don’t really like Pakistan nor do they support their views on a lot of matters, and they don’t agree it should agree as its own country (Since they’re doing so well with their more corrupt government and all) which I guess is what they grew up with in India (Most Indians and Pakistanis bitterly loathe each other), and I find I agree because I hate what they did with Bangladesh. We were all pretty pissed off to learn that the terrorist group responsible for the Mumbai attacks were from Pakistan, but none of us were surprised as well.

    And no, I don’t think Pakistan discriminates on darkness, though some of them DO. One of my friends who I argue with on a regular basis with on Pakistan and India and which one is better etc., is actually wayy darker than me (His whole family, not just him) and he’s Pakistani. When I first met him, I thought he was Indian, but it turns out he’s Pakistani, as are many Pakistanis that I know (And I’m friends with a lot) who are darker than me.

  • @elvish_fairy - Haha, “Islamophobia.”  That’s not even a word.  And that protest was not even a fraction of a fraction as crazy as the one I showed you. 

    There is no grounds for calling people who look nothing alike and speak languages belonging to radically different families as being the same race.  Genetically many of the Northern Indians are more similar to Europeans and Iranians than they are to people from the southern extremity.  It’s only the culture that provides them with any common ground, that and the English forced them all together when they pulled out of the area.  So it is cultural, just like I’m not the same race as Amerindians or black Americans, even though we live in the same country and I share a lot in common ideologically with some of them.  Indians can usually bubble in “East Indian” on government forms because it’s the most expedient way classifying them.  On the other hand people from Spanish speaking countries are expected to bubble in “Hispanic” even though most of them are Amerindians, some of them are white, some are black, and some are even Asian.  Arabs are expected to bubble in white even though they aren’t white.  So the government forms are not the end all and be all of classifying people.  I don’t think you’re a part of Indian culture, I think you have more in common with Saudis.

    I don’t see all Germans as Nazis, but I see all Nazis as Nazis.  If I go to Stormfront I automatically assume that everyone on there is going to be racist because that’s their ideology.  Many of the people on Stormfront probably are not going to kill you for not being white, or kill me for chasing after non-white women all the time, but none of them would be sad if you died either. 

    Yea, most of the Pakis in the US don’t wear the hijab, but I still don’t like them very much because they hate Jews and vote Democrat. 

    “They do not live in the place where Muhammad was born, so obviously they wouldn’t build a temple there. It doesn’t make sense. Also, not many Jews live in Makkah, so it wouldn’t make sense to bulldoze down the Ka’aba.”  But that’s my point!  The Jews aren’t going to invade Mecca because violence and conquest is not a part of their culture.  The Jews could overrun the entire Middle East if they wanted to (except for maybe Iran), but they don’t do that.  However, if the Moslems could wipe Israel off the map they wouldn’t hesitate.  They’re trying to do that now but they lack the technology and skill.  The Hindus never invaded Mecca or tried to conquer anything outside of India, but the Moslems spread out and conquered all of those places.  That’s how Islam spread, through conquest.  It’s not as though the Romans, Persians, or Egyptians invited the Moslems in, the Moslems came in and trashed the place. 

    You have all the same legal protection we do, and the same laws apply to you as apply to us.  If you want to not be seen as foreign then you need to become more like us.  Stop wearing the hijab, complaining about Israel, talking about how 9/11 was either the Jews fault and/or an inside job, protesting over stupid stuff like someone drawing a Muhammad cartoon, and for Heaven’s sake quite voting Democrat.  I have always disliked the Democrats but right now they are more unpopular than ever.  The Democrats like you because you vote for them, and that’s why they are trying to encourage Islamic immigration.  But honestly, if your people didn’t hate Jews, vote Democrat, or try to establish Sharia law in host countries, then I wouldn’t have a problem with you.  I would still consider you to be pagans but I would put you in the same category with Hindus and Buddhists.  Well almost, they were pretty unpopular (in the northern states) at the time of The War Between the States. 

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - Yeah it was. Those people almost killed a guy who wasn’t even a Muslim. Just because he “looked” Muslim. Who cares if “Islamophobia” isn’t a word; it still applies to you, judging by the reply you wrote.

    It’s like you don’t even read the constitution and what it applies to; That every person is entitled to their own worship. Why should you give a crap? You and your small little group of people who are very narrow minded. It’s you who don’t believe what America was founded on. You’re just arguing in circles. I won’t stop wearing the hijab, and I won’t stop doing what it is that makes me “foreign” even if I was born here and lived here pretty much all my life. You don’t define what’s foreign especially to America. If you find the image of Muslims so repugnant, maybe you should go to France where they ban scarves in public places.

    I also find it funny that you, a person who knows basically nothing about me, classify me more as an Arab than an Indian. Once again, narrowmindedness. However, your opinion is nothing, and once again I’m very grateful that nobody cares a whit about your opinion, except those so-called friends of yours.

    All I’m going to say is have an open mind. Because your reply would’ve been funny, if it weren’t for the fact that you were serious. It strikes me as sad that people like you still exist today, going against the very ideals America represents.

    Speaking of which, Muslims don’t trash every place. And if you think about it, we’ve done exactly what everybody else has done out there in the past. The Romans had one of the biggest empires, and you’d be a fool to believe that they did it through peaceful means. Oh wait… I think you are.

    Most of us who’ve lived in America don’t hate the Jews. The few Jews who attended my high school were friends with me. Once again, you are stereotyping the lot of us. Maybe you should try doing more research, and, like I suggest become more open minded. I guess it’s too much for you though. Keep living in your black and white world. It’s obvious that’s where you belong.

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    I can’t believe you’re still fired up about a post made over a week ago. Don’t you have better things to do? The controversy is over dude; you Teabaggers have already found your next fad, which seems to revolve around screwing over the GOP’s chances of taking the Senate by nominating unelectable wingnuts. Mazeltov!

    All of my grandparents come from Spain originally, having emigrated after the Spanish Civil War. My father’s father was drafted into Franco’s army when he was 16, while my mother’s grandfather was a Republican and an army surgeon.  I used to visit relatives in Andalucia (where Cordoba is) every summer while I was growing up. Medieval Spanish history, along with Spanish literature and Western political science, were the focuses of my undergraduate education at the University of Texas at Austin. Such analytical education is serving me well so far at Vanderbilt University law school.

    So, yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that I’m more fluent in the Spanish language, history, and culture than you are  

    The problem with getting your historical education from the likes of Michelle Malkin and FOX news is that, in order to win the war of sound bites, the right-wing media simplifies complicated reality in order to evoke an emotional response from its ignorant audience. It would be easy to just say “hur hur MUSLIMZ HATE TEH CHRISTANZ hur hr” and point to Cordoba as “proof”, but that would be only be as true as saying that the American Civil War was “just about slavery”.

    Muslims conquered parts of the Spanish peninsula which, in turn, had previously been conquered by Germanic tribes like the Vandals. That’s where “Andalucia” gets its name, from the ancient Germanic name of “Vandalia”. Before the Vandals conquered Spain, it was ruled by Christian Romans, and before Christian Romans ruled Spain the entire nation was ruled by PAGAN Romans…and before Pagan Romans ruled it was ruled by Pagan Carthaginians…and before Carthage the land was ruled by indigenous Celtic/Iberian pagans.

    See my point? If you’re going to argue that Spain was “invaded by Muslims” you have to also acknowledge that Spanish history, like everywhere else in the Mediterranean, is richly complex and the result of various cultures interacting with each other. Wouldn’t the native pagans have had the right to resent Christian conquests?

    Furthermore, Muslims lived in Spain for almost seven hundred years. How long have white people lived in North America? Barely five hundred, and both Canada and the United States are not even three hundred years old. Why aren’t you siding with the Native Americans? According to your logic, all white people in the United States ought to apologize for taking over the continent.

    Why not? You’re arguing that all Muslims deserve group guilt for the crimes committed by a dozen fanatics almost a decade ago. Why not all white people for the KKK and men like John Chivington?

    Spanish culture owes a lot to the Muslims who lived there for so long. You see Moorish influence everywhere you go in Spain; from the food, the language, to the physical appearance of the Spanish people. Cordoba was an extraordinary city in its time not only because it was the largest in Europe, but also because it had Christian, Jewish, and Muslim communities living in relative peace. That’s the history the backers of the Cordoba House are trying to evoke, and what reason do you have not to take them at their word?

    Unfortunately for you, our Constitution provides minorities with inalienable protections against majoritarian tyranny. Just because you outnumber the people you disagree with, doesn’t give you the right to decide where and how they will practice their religion. Arguing otherwise flies in the face of what our founding father’s believed and is indisputably un-American. You really should be ashamed of yourself, so-called “patriot”.

    I could go on rubbing your nose in your own obstinate ignorance, but that would be like explaining Goethe to a termite. Enjoy the rest of your day.

  • @Teufels_Hofnarr - No I don’t have anything better to do.  All I have is a dead end part time job because the economy is all jacked up and your Democraps are making it worse all the bloody time.  Also, even when I did have a decent job I always made time for anyone who wanted to argue with me.  Allright, first of all, it’s not “teabaggers” it’s Tea Party.  Second, I don’t go to any of those things, get out (aside from work), or do volunteer work.  All I do is work, work out, and lay the smack on smart mouth liberals online who have over inflated opinions of themselves and need to be taken down a few pegs.  As I have explained to others, the Tea Party movement is not something sexual, it’s a reference to the Boston Tea Party when colonial patriots threw a shipment of Tea into the water in order to protest taxation.  If you were alive back then you wouldn’t have been a part of that movement either because your ilk likes taxation and big government.  As for who is the real teabagger, it’s your people.  Your people are the ones who like to suck balls on and cocks, participate in anal banging, and shop at novelty stores.  You always have sex and perverted things on your mind because you’re polymorphously perverse and sexually confused.  The penis doesn’t go in a mouth, a butthole, or into a man.  There is only one orifice it’s supposed to go into. 

    My first degree was in history, I have also been to Spain.  I studied Spanish in college but after I came back from Spain I lost the majority of my Spanish skills through disuse.  I am no longer fluent but I can sometimes understand it when written.  That doesn’t really bother me though because like most of the rest of the white race, Spanish people are going to go extinct.  In 2060 there will be no more Spain, or Germany.  It’s because of low birth rates related to liberalism.  Maybe if they learned where to put their penises and in what gender to place them we wouldn’t be in this pickle, no pun intended.  Pretty soon it’s just going to be Europistan.  I’m thinking about learning Hindi though.  “The problem with getting your historical education from the likes of Michelle Malkin and FOX news is that”–That’s just your assumption, and that’s the exact sort of unwarented arrogance that makes liberals so despised and repellant to patriotic people around the world.  Just because we recognize that you are full of crap or disagree with you doesn’t make us ignorant or uneducated, just unbrainwashed.  You’re better off sticking to the arguments at hand rather than trying to be cleaver or smug. 

    Technically it wasn’t a Civil War, it was The War Between the States.  It wasn’t about slavery, but it’s surprising to hear a liberal like you admit that.  Moslems hate everyone that isn’t Moslem, it’s not because of some mythical “right wing media” (humorous!), it’s because of what their religion teaches.  Why don’t you ask a Moslem what “Dar al Harb” means? 

    There was no “Christian conquest” in Spain, Christianity didn’t even exist before Iberia was a part of the Roman Empire.  Christianity spread through diffusion, Islam spread through conquest and forced conversion.  You don’t know much about Islam because you just swallow whatever your left wing professors feed you (which generally paints a rosy picture of Islam) rather than doing any of your own research on the matter. 

    Ah yes, the obligatory bitching about “teh evil white man.”  How very liberal of you.  The fact is in the new world as a whole Native Americans outnumber white people.  Most of the people from Central and South America are Amerindian.  Some of them have white admixture but they’re still more native than they are white.  In North America there are more white people because white people immigrated in in droves and multiplied more fruitfully.  The Native cultures of North America are still here though.  In any case, the society that white people have created in North America is VASTLY superior to what the Native Americans had.  Does that excuse everything that was done, like the broken treaties and forced migrations?  Not really, but the white people who did those things are dead, and the white people today aren’t doing those things anymore.  I do think parts of the US ought to be cut loose for the Native Americans but that’s never going to happen.  And in any case I don’t think they would want it because they don’t have to pay taxes and they can get rich off of setting up gambling casinos.  The Moslems are STILL doing all their junk, they haven’t become more civilized over time, just weaker, because while eastern and western cultures have advanced, the Moslems have remained backwards and accomplished nothing. 

    Why not take them at their word?  Because it’s obvious that they’re full of crap.  They could have built their mosque elsewhere, and in fact the city tried to encourage them to do so but they steadfastly refused.  Ask your Moslem friends why they need to build a mosque there?  Seriously, they’re just being consistent with the way they have always behaved throughout history.  It’s the same reason they built a mosque of over the Temple Mount, the birthplace of Ram, and why they transformed the Hagia Sophia into a mosque.  It’s how they commemorate their conquests.  I give them points for consistency but not for being considerate, and anyone with half a brain can see how what they’re doing is provocative.  Also, don’t try to be smart with me, Granada was the capital of Moorish Spain not Cordoba.  And I never bought into that wierd pop-culture/PC bullcrap about Spanish people not being white.  They’re the exact same kind of people you can find in France and the Moors, who actually call themselves the Amazigh, are also white.  The Amazigh are related to the Celts and there are direct cognates between their dialects and Gaelic. 

    Well the fact is that they have been given the land legally, but we can still voice our disapproval, burn Korans, etc., and make it so unpalatable for them that they might move anyways.  I don’t think that any more Moslems ought to be allowes to immigrate to the US.  They’re far too dangerous and present far to great of a security risk.  Also, I’m not judging all Moslems by 9/11, I’m judging them by their conduct around the world and throughout history, and also by they way they run countries into the ground when they are in full power. 

    Uh huh, well I’m not impressed with you either. 

  • @elvish_fairy - OK, well I didn’t watch the whole thing, so I’ll have to go back and watch it again.  At any rate Moslems are always threatening people with death who criticize Islam.  There are artists and politicians in Europe who have to cower in their own countries because they said something about Islam.  You know if Christianity was like Islam guys like Richard Dawkins couldn’t exist.  Anyways…

    The fact is if you go around wearing a rag on your head people here are going to look at you sideways.  Most will think that you’re oppressed, others will think that you’re a terrorist like all those Hamas women who dress that way.  If you come here and vote Democrat, and you all do, then you’re just undermining my freedom and economic security.  Socialism is un-American, and so is Islam.  No one who votes Democrat is a friend of mine.  You are partly culpable for my not having a good job. 

    The Romans and Persians did conquer others, however, most of what the Romans did was in response to others attacking them, just like the US.  The Romans would get attacked by some tribe, and they would lay the smack and go home.  Then they would get attacked again, and lay the smack again but then they would stay.  That brought them into contact with new people groups who also attacked them again.  It should also be noted that when the Romans or Persians took over an area they elevated the people who were already there, gave them education, running water, roads, and protection from savages.  Moslems just said “lets go ransack the infidels and take their women as war booty.”  They still say it now!

    Most Moslems hate Israel or “zionists,” but the reason they hate it is because it’s a Jewish country.  They never hated Saddam Hussein, Bashir Asad, or Yassir Arafat.  I’m not going to let anyone get away with saying they hate Israel but not Jews.  The white supremacists say the same thing.  I think the white supremacists and Moslems are more alike than unalike. 

  • @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - 

    Too long. Didn’t read.

  • @Queen_of_You188 - I agree completely.

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