September 20, 2010
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Atheist and Deathbed Confessions
Atheist Christopher Hitchens has cancer. And it looks like he may be near death. So that has caused some to organize a prayer service for him.
He is the writer of the book “God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.”
He is refusing to go to the prayer meeting organized for him and has said he will not convert at the end of his life.
He said, “Thanks but no thanks” to those who want to know if he will have a “deathbed change of heart.” Here is the link: Link
I had so many people in my last post mention they were not believers.
If you had cancer and you were facing death, do you think you would try prayer?
Comments (154)
Yeah.
If people all of a sudden believe when they are dieing then they probably always believed they just denied it.
I don’t think praying solves anything.
i wouldn’t “try”. that’s shooting in the dark. if i had cancer i would ask that god forgive me for my unbelief, but that i did my best TO believe. i would ask him to simply show me the truth.
Nope. Praying accomplishes nothing. I’m planning on being frozen, so that might not sit well with any potential tribal deity up there.
Dammit… I’m sorry, but I hate how some religious people like to shove their beliefs down other peoples’ throats. Keep it to yourself. Please.
I wouldn’t bother; you’ve lived your whole life according to a way, why comprimise at the end?
@sassypenguin - interesting point
Nope, not at all
I didn’t know how I would react in this situation until about two years ago when I was stabbed in a mugging. It wasn’t until I was on the operating table that I realized I hadn’t prayed once. Not even an “oh god.” Frankly, I think any god worth my prayers would realize I tried to be a good person, and me asking for absolution when there’s nothing left to lose was a cheap ploy.
Well, no. I won’t be cured of cancer by praying. Things won’t change, I’m still gonna die. *Shrug*
No? What’s sitting around on my ass going to do? I’d rather be out there finding a real cure or enjoying my last bit of life.
It’s sad when people refuse such a hope as Christ. Hard to understand but there is so much fraud in the world people don’t know who or what to believe.
Honestly, some people are just stubborn. Perhaps, this guy is one of them. HOWEVER, I know of MANY MANY people who, on their deathbed, suddenly converted, and started to pray. Being a christian, I’ve heard these countless stories, and seen families rejoice, that their loved ones accepted Christ before they died. You actually have NO IDEA the imense ammount of JOY, and TEARS, from the relief of YEARS of praying for said family member happens.
Awww I like that guy!! I had no idea!
And no I would not have try to pray
Well I am a believer so I would pray that God’s will be done. If its my time then it is my time.
No.
@TheCrimsonSlash - Agreed.
no, because cancer is not just an awful happenstance to me. i understand the etiology and pathophysiology of it. i would be prepared for the treatment choices and the outcomes whatever they may be (different cancers have different prognoses) and i would read up on the kubler-ross stages of grieving. actually i think that’s something i will do right now because everybody should be prepared for death; it’s the only expected thing in life.
just curious, does dan even read comments?
Seeing as I tried it for most of my life to no avail, I doubt I’d give it another go even if I were terminally ill. The only reason I can see doing such a thing would be as a final white lie to please my family.
I think that dying horribly of cancer would probably reinforce my notions of there not being a loving god. That’s just me though.
So this is what you were getting at from the previous post haha…. So NO I would not convert on my death bed.
well it’s one of the steps to accepting death. i’m interested to see if he holds strong the entire time.
Me, well, I haven’t waited until my deathbed to try prayer, have I? Although I probably don’t try it enough now while I’m in relatively good health. Hmm. As for Hitchens, he’s said some very ignorant and hateful things, but I do hope that he comes to know Jesus Christ as his own personal Savior, though for his own sake.
In FSM we trust.
Christopher Hitchens is a real atheist. You either believe that a god and heaven exist like is described in the bible, or you don’t. Just like you either believe that there is a secret society of wizards gathered at hogwarts, or you don’t. The man can deduce fact from fiction and he doesn’t let things like death shake his intelligently-morbid resolve. Amen.
I am a believer, so I can’t really answer this question. It does remind me of something my grandfather always said. (not sure where it came from originally) He would say “There are no atheists in a foxhole”. I prayed for healing for this man today. I had never heard of him before.
Is it not God who decides the fate of a man? I commend them for trying. But I cannot forget what the Peter and the Paul spoke about those who are perishing.
1 Peter 2:7-8 – Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,” and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
Romans 9:18 – Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens
whom he wants to harden.
1)prayer didn’t work so far in life. why would cancer change anything?
2)getting cancer isn’t much of a sign that a merciful god would listen or care. no kind, benevolent father figure is out there. “spare the rod, spoil the child”
i ask you ‘vice’ (the literal opposite), if you had cancer would you, as a theologian, pray? or would you go through the grieving process, and try making the most of your time left? what i mean is, how would you focus your remaining time? would you pray, or would you tell everyone in your life how much they matter to you, every chance you get?
would god, or man, matter more?(the grieving process: denial, anger, depression, acceptance, atonement)
My husband has offered to pray with his patients that are really sick for the past 21 years. Patients have only refused his offer to pray twice.
One very emphatically. I kid you not…. the one man promptly died. My husband and the nurses started working on him and he prayed anyway. He didn’t stay dead. What happened after that, I don’t know.
@Ironstove - Very well put.
@HonestyProject - ”There are no atheists in foxholes” is not an argument against atheism. It’s an argument against foxholes. And frankly, it’s an insult to my many atheist friends serving in the armed forces.
I watched my preacher’s wife, my mothers best friend, go through breast cancer, chemotherapy, and die two years later when the cancer hit her liver anyway. I watched my mother cry and cry and listened to her as she said that it should have been her. (I was 18) She had convinced herself that God would miraculously heal her best friend, right until the very moment she died. At the funeral, she did not go on out to the graveyard to see her put into the ground. She could not handle that part. I would tell my family that it may very well be my time to go, and help them deal with it rather than build false hope. Sometimes God says “no”.
But I digress. Since I already am a believer, there would be no need to convert.
I think I’d try chemo instead…
I’d ask to know the truth before I died. And try my best to accept whatever it was. I think, in a way, it would be easier to accept it dying than in life, because if it turns out to be something you don’t like, then at least you don’t have long to live with it. (I guess I have this fear that whatever the truth is, I won’t like it….not sure why.)
One of my favorite quotations is what W.C. Fields said when someone caught him reading a bible. He claimed that he was “looking for loopholes”.
To have a death bed confession that guy would unravel his whole life work in an instant. That is a lot to give up, even for a dead man.
Me, I have nothing to lose, so why not? I mean if it works sweet, if not, I tried at least. The only reason I can think of to not pray is if you are this guy with a life’s work at stake or you’re just stubborn and to pray a small prayer would only go to prove you’ve fooled yourself all your life.
Also, seeing this guys stance, I would assume he probably thinks of them praying for him and asking for a death bed confession is only to move their own agenda and of course, destroy all credibility this man might have.
If I was him, I would not pray a death bed confession as well.
I once knew an atheist who converted for sub sandwiches.
I’m a Christian so yes, I would pray. I think that Hitchens is right in not going to the prayer service. If he doesn’t believe then he shouldn’t have to go. I would be very upset if the people organizing this would try and force it on him.
I have seen more than one avowed atheist on xanga post a request for prayer when a personal crisis arose. I don’t think anyone really knows what they will or won’t do on their deathbed until the moment comes.
Atheist, Agnostic, whatever, the Catholic Church prays for the entire world during the Liturgy of the Hours and at every Mass, 24/7 all year, so even if he doesn’t go to the prayer service organized for him, he is still being prayed for by a vast number of people, even if not by name…and so are all of you!!
Yes, even you, Dan!
@WordsandThoughts - and I think that mass genocide solves a lot of things. What you think and what is may not necessarily always be aligned.
@GodlessLiberal - Holy fuck you’re a badass.
no. even if I believed in God/heaven, there’s no reason for me to believe that prayer has any affect.
Born an atheist. I will die one.
I see no point in praying.
Funny that everyone keeps talking about cancer and atheism. My grandfather just died last week from lung cancer. He was an atheist. He didn’t pray, he didn’t convert.
When he died though, my mother had a Catholic priest come in and tend to his body. I don’t know what he did/said (my mom was the only one in the room and she was given a rosary.) I don’t think it was right of her to do that. Even though he was dead.
I should let her know if I die before her that I don’t want a priest near me. Dead or alive.
I would never pray for recovery. I would try to stay positive, but I think praying would only make light of my situation. Would a Christian who is dying of a terminal illness and no recovery in sight after years of prayer turn to Allah or Krishna instead?
@TheCrimsonSlash - Very true.
I am a Christian and would do it..
@remiblanc0 - I’m glad you understand this. I think it’s important for everyone in the whole universe to come to this realization. Now I’m off to play Russian Roulette while watching Sleepless in Seattle…er, I mean Saw!
@GodlessLiberal - When my grandfather said it it was always with regard to non-believers. I do not know where it originally came from, as I stated in my comment. Thanks for the lesson though.
I’ve prayed my whole life, and even when it feels like it doesn’t work, it always gives me a sense of peace. I guess it just depends on the person.
@HonestyProject - It’s not so much a lesson as it is my take on it. Atheism is the “faith” (emphasis on the quotes) most easily dissuaded by fear, as there’s nothing we’re held accountable in the atheist “afterlife.” Think of the case of Christians in ancient times when Rome was often a viciously pagan empire, and Christianity was punished. I’m absolutely certain that many Christians converted on fear of torture or death, just like many Jews or Muslims converted during the Inquisition.
But myself and several other people I know personally have faced death with no hope of a glorious afterlife in our futures and persevered. I wasn’t trying to attack you with my comment, but that quote is, to me, the equivalent of saying “all atheists are cowards.” I hope I made myself clear through this. It’s often to come across rationally and clearly when an issue is as close to me as this one is.
No, if I didn’t believe in god or prayer to begin with, I probably wouldn’t believe just because I was ill. I would, however, fight the illness with all the energy I’ve got with the help of doctors, science and medicine.
No. I really don’t see how praying would help.
@Ironstove - I believe in hogwarts. <3 lmao
Absolutely I would (:
I suppose if you didn’t believe in God you wouldn’t believe in Heaven, so there’s nothing to pray for. Yeah, it’s probably not going to make you well, so if the only thing in the future is to die, praying won’t do a lot.
Nope. Religious people die of cancer too. I’ll stick with chemo.
I’m agnostic but I pray. I think there’s a God I just don’t know exactly the nature of said God or what I really believe so I file my beliefs under “undecided”.
I am a spiritual person so prayer is not so strange for me. However, I also work in the medical field. I have seen the suffering that cancer causes. I have watched the slow, painful death that often follows. I would pray. I would do whatever I thought might help. Even if I thought that it were only psychological.
Kat
How strange; I first saw this book when I was in a waiting room at City of Hope in Duarte California, where my husband was going to get a stem cell transplant for Stage 4 NHL. We took all the prayers we could get but I really think it was science that saved him.
@steph843 - I don’t like defining people, but technically the term agnostic means that one cannot know whether or not god exists. What you’re describing sounds much closer to deism. Agnosticism tends to be much closer to atheism than any actual belief in god.
fuck it might as well. gonna die anyways. might as well smoke a bunch of weed too and go skydiving.
I think that asking for the forgiveness of sins on your death bed might be just “fire insurance”… God’s forgiveness comes from more than just mere words, it has to be heartfelt and a sincere sorrow that you have displeased him. Can a person feel that way at the last minute? I think that would have to be between himself and God. I am just glad that for me, this question does not apply. ~ mom
@letsgoskate194 - If we end up terminal at the same time, care to make that stoned skydiving trip together?
To randomneuralfirings: if you had cancer and you were facing death, do you think you would convert to Islam and try praying to Allah? Why not? A lot of Islamics “do hope that you come to know Allah as your own personal Savior, though for your own sake.”
That should give you some idea of what you sound like. I certainly hope it does, though for your own sake of course.
NO I WILL NOT PRAY.
I really don’t think so. But let’s wait until I have cancer so you can see my new answer. But I don’t think that praying for recovery will help me unless I truly believe God can cure it. And right now, I don’t even know if there is a god or many gods.
If I had cancer, I would try hard to maintain a strong, positive, and hopeful mentality. That’s a good step to recovery; believing that you’ll get there. Your body reacts to those kinds of thoughts positively. If others kept me in their prayers, well…that’s great, that means they’re acknowledging my existence. (And acknowledging nicely, apparently.) That means I’m in their thoughts, and that always makes a person feel good, right? But see, I myself do not pray. I only believe and maintain optimism.
No. But a lot of people do.
It’s part of the “bargaining” stage of death.
Seeing as how I already believe, of course I would pray. I would pray for forgiveness and that God’s will be done.
I would have to pray to every god just to be sure… and there’s a LONG list of god’s. Id better get started.
My grandfather did this. His death and conversion led my great-grandmother (his mother) to follow suit. She spent 100 years as a Buddhist, and seems to enjoy the church scene more than church itself.
I don’t think I ever would. I’ve lived my life thinking that there is no God to save me; why should the fact that I “need” to be saved change that?Interesting post, though.
@Pcgecko85 - Very Audioslave of you. “And on my deathbed, I will pray to the gods and the angels, like a pagan, to anyone who will take me to heaven.”
Doesn’t it seem like a cheap trick on the part of God to give someone cancer just so they’ll finally become a believer at the very end of their life? Quite a benevolent fellow, eh?
No.
Hichens is at leats being consistent to his beliefs. So are the Christians as Christ said, ‘love your enemies.’ Find it a bit sad though when hitch says in the article about his contribution – urging people to believe in nothing.
Interesting that my father fought on the front line in WW2. He noted many ‘atheists’ who said a quick prayer before battle commenced!
I prayed and prayed for my father as he had Prostate Cancer. I watched him go through a LOT after his radiation as well. Of course I would. I can’t speak for everyone else, but I have had a very tough time with God and faith. Yet somehow, that never stops me from praying. I just feel compelled to. I think at a time like that, I would. I just don’t feel right about pressing my beliefs on people who don’t feel the same way. I’m sure that guy felt pretty angry about those people doing that–even though they care or whatever. They’re not respecting his beliefs and are essentially rubbing it in his face.
I guess that’s odd. My praying, that is. I lost my mom in 1989 and spent the rest of my life feeling very lonely and upset about not knowing her. But I had a family who loved me to death, and a grandmother who made me her 4th child. I asked for love, and got 5 men who only wanted me as a last resort. One who could not stay out of my afro no matter how many times I swatted him out of there. I loved him the most, but he hurt me the most. But on that same note, I’ve been blessed with a father who has always given me a room in his house, a share of his money, etc. And I’ve had friends who have been there for me since forever. So maybe I SHOULD feel like Mr. Hitchens, given the odds of all the bad things, but I cannot. Life keeps knocking me down, but God is always there to hold me up.
*sigh* What a subject!
As Christians, we are supposed to love one another. Regardless of how he feels and rejects God, it is wonderful that a group is going to pray for Him. That is the beauty of Christianity. You do not need to believe in God for me to pray for you. However, I would also pray that he would have a change of heart and that God would use this story to allow others to come to believe in Him.
I would pray that God’s will be done, just like TheCrimsonSlash.
yea but not to the god your thinking about
Nope.
I’d spend my time doing more productive things than praying to gods I don’t believe in.
When I saw this at the TOP of the XANGA TOP BLOGS, right where you USUALLY ARE
there were 666 visits. that will tell some people something right there.
Did you put that Dianetics ad here intentionally ? Creepy!
well, I try to “pray” as often as I remember, but my style has more to do with listning than talking and asking for much except world peace….
I think what this subject is addressing is our reaction to intense fear and unresolvable fear of the inevitable…
No one really knows what is going on with this person…
It is so sad that what people fail to realize is that this is really about the people looking at the problem and has really little at all to do with the man in the spotlight.
He’ll be our mirror.
Personally, I am not interested in his personal hell and road to “peace”…as I am busy with my own!
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Good luck to him though.
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…and, I forgot to ad; if he goes out without a plea to the heavens for mercy, what does it prove, anti-faith?
kind of like Satan huh?
..they say opposites attract…
and I so hate it when things like death get used to sell products….
He obviously is trying to prove a point, which is just as suspect as any flaming Christian…
.
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”see you soon dad” =]
I am a believer so yes I would pray.
Do you write your letter to Santa on December 24th? It’s the same thing.
@GodlessLiberal - Your explanation is appreciated. Sometimes when we type, the message is lost or comes across as harsh. It happens. I certainly did not mean to imply that atheists were cowards. That is not my style. I absolutely see your point when speaking about the Romans. I think it is very difficult to say what we would do in a situation such as you described. For myself, I would like to think that my faith is strong enough that I would not deny my God in the face of being threatened with my life. Peter had great faith in who Jesus was yet denied Him three times when he was threatened. We are human. At the end of the day, I am respectful of everyone’s right to believe, or not. That is as it should be, in my opinion.
Spending the last part of your life on prayer makes about as much sense as spending the last part of your life looking for a leprechaun at the end of a rainbow to grant your wish for a magical cure. People are free to do so if they like, but I sure wouldn’t.
@Ironstove - And he goes into oblivion believing in nothing.
And he goes into oblivion believing in nothing.
No. That’s really ridiculous, in my opinion. If you do that, I honestly think you were never truly an atheist – you had some element of belief in there somewhere.
I do not believe in the supernatural so I do not believe it helps for me to speak in a room all by myself. Rather than do that, I would rather talk directly with the person and draw out of that person the desires, hopes, and fears of that individual on a personal one-on-one basis.
@gyromight - However, a lot of atheists don’t appreciate being prayed for. They don’t want that. I say this as an atheist – I don’t like people telling me they’re going to “Pray for me”, thanks.
No. I am an agnostic atheist. There are reasons why I am agnostic atheist. With the experiences I have had debating this with people, arguing against the same points with almost every single person I speak with about it, I am doubting that I will ever be convinced otherwise. So in all likelihood, I will not be praying since I will be dying without any religious faith in mind. I will still hold the position that any metaphysical entity or force cannot be proved nor disproved to exist.
It is the same with Hitchens, but even more so. He went public in his disbelief, and yet it is evident that no one has convinced him that he holds the incorrect position. Now, he has esophageal cancer. He isn’t thinking that maybe he has esophageal cancer because he didn’t pray enough and to the right deity, but that this is what happens when you smoke too much and imbibe far too much liquor. Furthermore, no amount of prayer will change the fact that he is dying and he knows that. Nature doesn’t have a change of heart (nor esophagus).
The issue is as simple as that. People who are already praying will continue to pray. Atheists who are atheists because they identified with disbelief on an intellectual level will continue not to pray. Atheists who are atheists because they identified with disbelief on an emotional level may start praying again.
No. I’ve been in some pretty serious situations and whenever I am tempted to “try prayer” it feels just as ridiculous as always, “Oh imaginary being who is all-powerful yet supposedly inflicted this illness on me, Oh please because I’m so special make it all better in Your Infinite Wisdom” Yeah, no thanks.
*rolls eyes* Fear of death is pretty much the entire underpinning of afterlife-touting religions. No fear = no religion.
I have stared death directly in the eyes, and not for one second did a god come into the picture for me.
I would pray for him but respect his Atheist belief..
No! It’s a waste of time. If I give up on medicine I’m probably doomed anyway.
Isn’t that why most people delude themselves that there is a God, so that they feel better about dying. Have a little prayer to hedge ones bet, but if there is a god he’s gonna know and send you to be burnt for eternity any way…
Pray, pray to whom? The clouds? Cause that’s all that’s up there, and beyond the clouds are stars and planets.
There’s no one to pray to, so why would I pray? And even if there was someone to pray to, why would they do anything about my situation? Ha.
Nope I won’t be praying. I keep people in my thoughts rather than praying.
I hate the phrase “trying prayer.” If you got to a point where you were so desperate and went against your non-God beliefs, then you already have faith and you’re already looking. But if I was an Atheist, no. I would not “try prayer” to cure cancer. That just sounds ridiculous.
Why are they holding a prayer service for an atheist and asking him to come? Fuckin’ weird.
Of course, if he does convert on his deathbed, religious people will use it as “proof” that religion is right and there is a God. But the fact is that it doesn’t prove anything. The mechanism behind religion that makes it work as well as it does is fear of the unknown, and what happens after death is the ultimate unknown that people are afraid of. As people get closer to death, they tend to get more scared of the end, and therefore turn to prominent religions to give them the answer. That’s all I wanted to share, because I’m tired of people using atheists converting on their deathbed as “proof” that atheism is crap.
Well, given the name of the site, I’m guessing your position might be yes. For me… I don’t know…. I’m kind of a loser, so, yeah, I’d probably pray really hard, haha. I’m agnostic though, so, I might drag myself to an oncologist, once or twice.
People do silly things when faced with fear.
It doesn’t mean it’s a rational, or moral, thing to do.
@individually_surveys - i don’t think anyone likes hearing “i’ll be praying for you.” most of the time it’s said in a very condescending tone. my question to you would be what would you do if you found out they were praying for you without you knowing?(ie, overheard them or walked in on them, or were told by a third party “OMG you’ll never believe what aunt suzy was doing!…”)
@aireeuh - i suppose it depends on what you believe about them.
@chaospet - leprechauns exist! (that’s what I’m counting on to save me from my debt.)
@ionekoa - Yeah, you’re right about it often being very condescending. In my opinion, if someone does want to pray for me, they can, and it’s not my place to tell them not to (as prayer is a personal thing).
even if you’re not praying to god or whatever you don’t believe in, you can still ask to be taken peacefully and ask for your family members and friends to be okay after you pass.
also can anyone who said they would pray for gods will to be done let me know what the point of that is? gods will is going to be done anyway, whether you pray for it or not, isnt it? why not just let god do his will and not pray because theres no point considering god has a plan for everyone?
i have faith that god doesnt exist! oh shit now you cant touch me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLOUWl-L-s
his belief is that there is no God. why would he pray to someone he TRULY believes doesn’t exist? i don’t ask bigfoot to get me a sandwich, why would this guy ask God to save him?
No. Maybe meditation.
That’s silly – death & prayer – what does one have to do with the other? I’ve had people close to me die, I’ve been afraid or worried about things happening to my family – even in moments of despair & panic I can’t think of a time I’ve been even TEMPTED to pray. When you’re an atheist, it doesn’t enter your head as an option.
I think Hitchens is handling the prayer groups gracefully – he’s not critical of their gesture, says it may even make those praying feel better (which is good), but has no need to believe it will change anything about his condition. And why should anyone think prayer will make a difference? Good people die all the time.
I hope the prayer organizers and proponents truly have his interests at heart – it all seems like a Christian publicity stunt to me – oh, let’s see if we can get the atheist to come to his knees! Nice – very Christ-like.
I’d try EVERYTHING. It couldn’t hurt.
Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
I would pray for the guy but I believe it is insulting to his belief system to arrange a prayer meeting for him and invite him. Its granstanding.
Why would I suddenly choose to believe in something that has no proof of existence and a huge fan club devoted to enforcing their beliefs on others and causing widespread misery just because I’m dieing? Take you god and shove it has been a saying of mine for decades, and it’s not going to go away. Not ever.
@ionekoa - I guess what I should have said was, if I somehow got the idea in my head on my deathbed that there might be a god, I’ve already seen with objective eyes over the course of my life that prayer is worthless, so I wouldn’t bother.
besides, I wouldn’t want to go to heaven if it meant kissing god’s ass, who hates me for who I really am, and who I’d have to hang out with for eternity. fuck that. I’d go burn alongside the rest of my friends in hell.
The **Human Being** Christopher Hitchens is dying of cancer.
I think there was an episode of Futurama were Bender is lost in space, and Fry loses hope in finding him. He goes to a priest and asks what he can do. The priest says pray. Fry then asks if there’s some other actually effective thing to do for Bender. The priest says no. XD
If you are an hard atheist, then questions like these should be though of and answered as best as one can whe one comtemplates chosing this way of life. Deciding last mintue to change your views almost certainly shows you either lack some resolute position all your life, generally speaking.
Nope, not at all
No… prayer is not a cure for cancer… obviously!
I fucken love The Hitch. Save your prayers, it does nothing but annoy him. Such a waste of little time he has left. He’ll be drinking the finest Scotch until his last days. Good times …
To answer your question: I would never be that desperate. I will never grovel at the face of death. I have lead a good life. Now it’s time for the next great adventure! Fuck you all. I’m out.
Nope. I won’t try prayer at all. If it’s my time to go, then it’s my time. No use fighting it
Coming from a Christian background, it is hard in times of crisis not to resort to praying the way I was taught. Life experience has taught me that prayer doesn’t do much…but I would probably pray out of habit.
Granted, I do believe in God, I just don’t believe in a God that can intercede. In Christian terms I believe in Abba, but leave the HS, and Jesus alone.
I think of it more as having a conversation.
While I don’t have the ‘ideal’ faith that some people do, I believe that prayer/meditation is roughly the same thing and quite beneficial. However you look at it, I believe that it would be worth a try.
No. Science can help you, not god.
No, not me personally. Death is a part of Life in the physical realm. We stave it off as long as we can here using physical means and resort to magic (such as prayer or spells) only if we feel there is something we absolutely need to finish first and physical isn’t working, but most often that’s just bucking the system. If Christopher Hitchings doesn’t care to play the hipocrit and buck the system as it were, them more power to him. He’s being honest to the last. Anyway, as I see it, real life is indefinite in the non-physical; its just that the best challenges and opportunities to grow exist here in this plane. But then, I believe in reincarnation too so don’t believe EVERYthing has to be finished in one lifetime. But that’s just my own opinion. Mr. Hitchings may feel differently about it and he’s still saying no to religion being crammed down his throat.
I wouldn’t “try” prayer. I would continue to depend on spiritual means, and if well enough, would seek alternative natural treatments/food etc. Spiritual things and avoidance of the medical profession death panel would be par for the course. Prayer is no different than casting a spell or wishcraft, and I am always expectantly wishing for good things.
I was so engrossed in Farrah Fawcett’s illness and story that I still think of her often. She seemed so strong and determined to live, and I admired her so much for going public with her experience. In hindsight, I look at it and realize that she fully believed in science. That is where she ultimately put her faith and her dollars. Unlike most others who have more limited financial resources, she was able to take any style of scientific measure – such as leaving the US for scientists with a different mindset in Germany. I could relate to that, to a point. I guess the question for me should not be whether I would “try prayer”, but whether I would try to have faith in today’s medical profession – because my default mode is to look for an alternative to it.
How often do doctors cure cancer? And why would anyone want to PAY for the experimentation on them, when failure is the most likely result? If that’s their only chance, they are in a bad situation indeed. More to the point of your post, the atheist usually has full faith in something else – such as science – even though it is as much a god as anything else one puts unquestioning faith in.
I don’t know how people who don’t believe in God get through having terminal cancer. I mean, I would be a wreck. Most people who have terminal cancer end up being at peace with death because they know they are going to heaven. At least thats how it was with the people that I have known that had terminal cancer.
Yes, I would be praying. I think if I was diagnosed with terminal cancer I would be very upset with God. But, yes, I would be praying everyday.
Absolutely not.
Hitchens isn’t an atheist… he’s an anti-theist is what he is… but at the same time… i find that he’s totally at least grateful for what people are organizing…
lol may we all go to heaven ;D
No because God won’t save me, especially if I don’t believe he exist. Heck, while many religious people wouldn’t mind to go to a prayer session, many of them won’t believe they will be save by God since, under their religious belief, there is a reason for everything and its time for them to join God in heaven.
@storyofmylife87 - Easy. We make peace with ourselves. If I’m dying of a terminal disease, all I need to do is look back at my life and everything I have done. The only thing in my mind would be that my children and grandchildren will live a grand life. That would be enough to get me by.
I think it’s incredibly insulting to even suggest that an atheist pray in his deathbed. One of the qualms that I have about zealots is that they solicit conversion in times of strife. Seriously, how unethical is that?
No. I’m not an atheist because I want to be. I’m an atheist because logically, there is no evidence for me to believe in a higher power. So why would I suddenly start believing in something that doesn’t exist? That makes no sense to me.
@DhampirBoy - I completely agree with your distinction here. Atheists who have become atheists for logical, rational reasons will not pray. Atheists who have become atheists for emotional reasons are likely to relapse into comforting beliefs.
@Axis_of_Doom - I agree with you, but non-religious people are just as guilty of the same thing.
It’s really sad about Chris. He is a funny, articulate human being.
I would not.
My mother was on her deathbed and all the praying and faith and trust in the world from an 11 year old girl could not convince a “loving” god to let her keep her mom.
If there is a god, I hate him.
That’s just me though =]
No matter what you believe, I’m pretty sure converting out of fear of death would be frowned upon by whomever you may believe is up there judging us.
There’s a term for this type of conversion. It’s called desperation. For a religious institution to be so destitute and bankrupt of any tangible benefits, they they would resort to capitalizing on desperation as a viable reason we should seek comfort in beliefs that can, and notably have, been proven to be not only false, but dangerous, is a sign of the church’s own desperation. Any arguments as to the “what can and cannot be proven” bit, should be directed to a library. I will not spoon feed the intellectually lazy.
I don’t want a christain to pray for me
the idea makes me uncomfortable
like they are completely ignoring my life and culture
if they had a rabi pray for me that would be different
well it matters if a person believes in God. If they believe in God, and haven’t been living up to their belief, then they ought to pray, and probably would. But if a person is an atheist…and Faith is a gift, and never to be taken credit for…then the atheist CANNOT pray, period. BUT, and this is a BIG BUTT, just like a believer can sometimes doubt, AN ATHEIST CAN DOUBT TOO !! ….”maybe there is a God?…” an atheist can doubt their atheism, and then they might pray. Aha.
Asking someone to convert to your own narrowly defined beliefs instead of allowing him to come to peace with his own death in his own way is delusionally disrespectful. I’m offended on his behalf, and I don’t even like his writing. But as for whether or not I’d try prayer as an atheist, I think you’ve got to ask ‘real atheists’ that question- since for me atheism (and equally a worldview where things either exist in a way I can understand them or they don’t) just doesn’t make any sense.
If god had ignored me all my life (which he has no matter how hard I prayed or how much I believed [back when I still did]) then why would my dieing change things? He never listened to me, he never helped me and NO he wont then either. I will die with my dignity not begging some invisable being who has done NOTHING for me in my life for help or forgiveness
Hell, Yes!!
I would pray. I pray every day but I would pray that God let’s me die with dignity and thank him that I had a chance to say the things I needed to say and do the things I needed to do here on earth before I went to meet with Jesus.
That’s kind of hypocritical, but then again.. better late than never right? As long as your prayer is genuine/sincere. But yeah, I would pray.
I would try prayer as a last hope.
sticking to his guns
I’ll be in prayer for Hitchens…..
I give Hitchens props for not converting at the last minute. It’s hogwash to convert at the last minute, just like priests trying to convert inmates right before they receive the death penalty. True rebirth comes from the heart. Christianity isn’t some miracle pill that you might as well try if you got nothing else to lose.
Praying accomplishes nothing. I was in fourth grade when my granny died in cancer. I spent a little less than a year watching a once vivacious woman slowly waste away. I prayed and prayed and begged God to save her, but I never got anything back.
Praying’s not gonna save anyone’s life. All you’re doing is speaking to empty air and a God who may or may not exist. If there’s a God, then when I die I’ll go and be judged by him. Maybe he’ll forgive me for my disbelief, maybe not. I’ll just spend my life being myself and following my own values and morals. If there really is a Heaven, maybe I’ll make the cut. Maybe I won’t.
Either way it goes, everyone is still gonna die. Just buck up and face facts.
@Axis_of_Doom - Somebody has a lot of penned up anger
Well being a believer, I suppose this question isn’t for me.
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