September 23, 2010
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Is Rape Pornographic?
I was reading Kestrylshade’s wordpress blog about a professor that wants a high school to ban a book.
The professor describes the book as “soft pornography.”
He mentions a dysfunctional family that is described in the book. He mentions that the schoolteachers are seen as losers and that the “cheerleading squad score more than the football team.” But he also mentions that there are two rape scenes in the book.
Is rape pornographic?
Comments (72)
Is a rectangle a square?
Only if you take pictures of it.
depends on the context.
I’ve been assigned books to read at school that have rape scenes in them. I think if there is material like that in a book you should be told before reading it in case you’re especially sensitive to it but I don’t think that it should be banned. It’s real life, and there is a lot of bad stuff in real life.
And no, rape is not pornographic. Playing with control is pornographic (ex: pretending to non-consent after you’ve already consented w/a safe word) but actual rape is power play and not sexual… besides being sex. It’s not “pornographic” at least.
@Da__Vinci - Or video tape it…
The definition of pornographic is “designed to arouse lust.”
Rape isn’t.
@TheDarkCreature - True true.
No, but some people think so.
Ugh. Seriously, the only real issue here is that he views an adolescent novel about overcoming the trauma of rape as pornographic material. I’m of the opinion that HE should be banned. From life.
To a sick mind it is.
It can be….if your watching porno rape fantasies
Pornography and rape are two entirely separate issues! Porn is about sex, rape is about control.
depends on the context and point of view. If you filmed it, it would be I guess (:
It is illegal.
Ummm… I’m pretty sure no one would get off on that. Especially not a bunch of kids…
If he gets turned on by a rape scene (which he obviously must or he wouldn’t be arguing that it’s pornography) then he’s a rather sick individual.
rape is worse than porn
IF the football team was like my old high school football team, saying that the cheerleaders score more often than the football team really isn’t saying much.
Rape is about power. Porn is about pleasure. One is reprehensible, unforgivable. The other is just shallow entertainment.
Well, I think that no matter how many good themes the book has, if the rape scenes are described in good enough detail it can be considered dirty. Not necessarily porn, but I wouldn’t my high school age kid reading a book that describes a sex scene (rape or otherwise) in detail.
@suggestivetongue - Yeah… I thought of that when I read this blog too. I can think of a number of books I was assigned to read in high school that included rape scenes (some implied, some very vividly described)… there were also books I was assigned to read in high school that had quite a bit of consensual sex in them. Heck, we had to read Beloved… that had consensual sex, rape, and even bestiality.
I find it odd that the teacher is putting up such a fuss. Then again, I’m pretty much against the censorship of books anyways.
hell yea it is negro!!!!! Ban dat Bible baby!!! oh yea….we did.
but it wasnt cuz of the rape…..really…..it wasnt.
it gives me a boner every time.
@Babylons_Crowing - how dare you suggest that rape is merely shallow entertainment?!
@Ro_ad808 - actually a rectangle is a special type of square..thank you geometry teacher for ruining my life with that lol
@suggestivetongue - Along with books that have cuss words, racial slurs, murder etc; Lord of the Flies was particularly vicious…>.> But I agree with you.
I’ll read the book in question and give you my thoughts on it. Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson.
@tendollar4ways - :giggle:
this makes me really mad, because i read that book and in no way could the rape scenes, and any mention of the incident in the book, be misconstrued as rape.
if you have ever been sexually assaulted in any way, then you know damn well that there is nothing lustful or romantic or sexy about rape.
@Hinase - no, a square is a type of rectangle.
the definition of a square includes four equal sides.
that’s not necessary in a rectangle.
@bekkabrutality - then my geometry teacher lied to us =_____= ; figures..I never liked him anyhow. He taught crappily anyhow. How does a spider monkey, golf swings have anything to do with GEOMETRY?!!
@Hinase - hahaha my teacher spent most of the semester telling that joke about waffles and ice cream and dogs, or whatever, i can’t really remember it right now lol, but it was on our final!
@bekkabrutality - And he wasn’t any better when I had him for pre-calcu…talking about how horrible, rotten kids are..and football >.> And in my geometry class I was surrounded by smart kids that GOT IT. Why do I have to know what that line equals if I only have that angle? Seriously lol Yeah, most of my teachers were crazy like this. Seriously? Dogs? Waffles..wow LOL. It was on your final? Wow..I have no words for that lol..my history teacher Mr. Young (chinese) told us odd but funny stories. At least I got some good advice. Remember to clip yourself to your wallet if you ever go to Rome because of Gypsies. *facepalm* They like to steal. Lol. At least chemistry was fun…chemistry was the only class I really enjoyed =)
Some teachers are dumb. And they think they got it all.
@Hinase - The chemistry teacher I had got escorted off the property the year after me. If there ever was a facepalm moment…
Could be, if the rape scenes are glorified as thrilling or something equally twisted. If they’re part of the dysfunction and pain of the characters, then I’d just call it controversial content for a high school library. I probably wouldn’t want MY kids reading it, but if they did, we’d talk about it.
~V
No….. not to me. Of course, some(sick) people get off on it though. I don’t understand it. It’s sick.
The original post got it just right, for my money: “we have to protect the purity of the children, blah blah blah.” Take a look at Rick Moody’s ICE STORM if you want suburban perversion. It’s significantly more perverse than Ang Lee’s film, and there’s a could-have-been rape scene in it that really shows the would-be-rapist’s disgust with himself. As the famous obscenity case once said, “more emetic than arousing” or words closely to that effect.
People who think representations of rape (in literature, in film) are pornographic are usually, in my experience, making a very wide, unthought distinction wherein all representations of any sexual activity whatsoever are going to “corrupt our youth” and cause, you know, unregulated pleasure and joy or some shit
No.
@suggestivetongue - I agree on both comments actually.
There are plenty of books that high school students read that have rape scenes, dysfunctional families, “scandalous” women (not women who like sex) etc in them. I don’t think any of them should be banned. Teachers are supposed to show students how the subject they teach are related to their lives in some way shape or form. Students will learn nothing from life if we only present things to them in s squeaky clean way. Life is just not squeaky clean. I applaud English teachers that work more modern stuff into the curriculum. If the teacher doesn’t want to use Speak in her class, then that is what she should do for her class (and I will leave it at that).
As far as rape being pornographic, I think that people need to learn to separate rape from sex. Role playing during consensual sex is not the same thing as somebody deciding they are going to use your body how they want to whether you like it or not.
It’s not porn unless its role play… but even this type of book should not be in schools
It is much worse that that
There’s three rape scenes in the girl with the dragon tattoo and they were disturbing for me because they were so incredibly degrading and graphic, in my opinion. Then again, I’m not desensitized to rape so it bothered me quite a bit.
I don’t think it’s pornographic, however I do think it’s inappropriate to be having children read this material, children being under 18. Even when I was reading it at 23, I don’t think anything could have prepared me for those scenes.
And that is my honest opinion.
So what you mean is, Is a depicted rape pornographic…It really depends on how said rape is portrayed. Is it seen and glorified through the eyes of the rapist? If so, then yes. Possibly so. If it’s through the eyes of a witness or person being raped, probably not. Either way, such subject matter is disturbing and the maturity level of the readers really needs to be evaluated before it is read. I don’t think it’s healthy to shelter kids in such a way.
It can be. But it doesn’t have to be. Context is everything, which is what separates many mainstream works of fiction from the back shelves of the bookstore.
Banning books is so Dark Ages. Kids will flock to it. I know I would.
@contrarians - unless you’re being deliberately dense, the porn is the shallow one.
@Masked_Melody - When was there bestiality in beloved
I don’t remember if there was
Rape is about control, not sex. Look it up.
@Erika_Steele - ”As far as rape being pornographic, I think
that people need to learn to separate rape from sex. Role playing
during consensual sex is not the same thing as somebody deciding they
are going to use your body how they want to whether you like it or not.”
I agree with this. rape is all about control, not sex itself. People get that confused only because rape involves our sexual body parts.
no, it is not pornographic. however, if the book is passed out as a class project and someone has a problem with the subject matter (ie a rape victim) they should be offered an alternative book to read.
depends on whose watching????
the book in question is speak…?
they described the rape for like, one paragraph. it wasn’t even the rape itself described either, it was how scared she was during. it wasn’t pornographic; a bit disturbing, yes, but not pornographic.
All violence is porn. Especially war.
I dont think so. I think it is violence. I am thinking if the person who wants it banned find rape pornographic, maybe they should look at themselves.
Perhaps is probably a bit too much for an English class – I remember The Color purple was disallowed from being assigned to us because of similar scenes of rape, but there are various classic books with strong scenes which are quite in the right place in high school (can’t think of a few examples right now)
@splinter1591 - There indeed was… how could I forget the immature giggles that filled the room when we discussed it in my AP English class? lol I do believe some of the men used calves for their pleasure at one point in the book (while they were slaves at Sweet Home).
Only is you are mentally ill!!! Think about it!
@bekkabrutality - Wow..that’s not good..
@radicalsounds - AMEN!
I didn’t think SPEAK was that graphic anyways. It was a good novel about being an outsider because of a crime perpetrated on an individual. Melinda’s experience and her right to say no were the story- a lot of girls who don’t read need to know that message- it’s okay to say no. You don’t have to sleep with everybody.
I don’t know whether it’s pornographic, but I certainly wouldn’t include it on a required reading list. There are bound to be students who have actually been sexually abused, and it could be triggering to them.
@Masked_Melody - Oh I remember that know
you read books aloud? lucky butt!
@splinter1591 - Hahaha no, we didn’t. We were assigned chapters to read on our own time, we merely discussed the chapters and the meanings in class. Of course people had to bring up the bestiality thing, since it was so gross. lol
I would only say it was a pornographic book if it had images. The “graphic” suffix and my general knowledge of books tends me to think this book has dirty parts to the novel, but is overall not even a dirty, adult novel.
As for your question, I would call rape pornographic if it’s sexual and intended to be sexual and there’s revealing visuals of this scene. In most non-adult novels, heavily detailed rape is meant to help transition those who’ve never experienced it into a hauntingly dark corner. They want the descriptions to linger in your mind, and whether or not this is a sexual fantasy of theirs is irrelevant. I don’t think non-adult novels with rape are doing it to arouse the reader, but if it does, then keep reading to find out if/how the character gets out of the unfortunate situation.
In my head, I kept thinking of Angels and Demons. That book should probably be banned by that professor’s standards.
I’m curious…they don’t still discuss mythology in high school classes anymore, do they? There’s so much rape there that the poor kids eyes would just burn out of their little heads…
No.
There’s a difference between rape erotica and rape depicted in a book to continue or add to a story–intention, intention, intention.
that was a hot photograph …but it looked consensual to me.
but to answer the question, a graphically depicted rape scene can certainly be pornographic, depending on how it is written and from whose point of view (the raper who is sexually aroused by the violence of it or the woman who is fearful for her life?)
Rape is not pornographic. However, rape can be portrayed in a pornographic manner in non-reality media.
I would say no. Though a disclaimer could be warranted.
i’m mad about this still. speak is not a pornographic book. >_<
This subject is failing to provoke any shock from me. Stop being a comment whore.
what book is it?