October 8, 2010
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Gays and the Bible
Lets look at what the Bible says about gays and homosexuality.
Leviticus 18:22 “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable”
Leviticus 20:13 “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
Romans 1:26-27 “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
I Corinthians 6:9 “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Does the Bible teach that homosexuality is wrong?
Comments (292)
Is a frog’s ass air tight?
Yes
Obviously, it teaches that homosexual sex is wrong. Man, oh man, you just opened a can of worms this time. Xanga too slow for ya lately?
The bible probably wouldn’t want you to talk about it behind its back like this.
Yes
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Have you checked?
yes it does. it always has. =P
i could’ve told ya that xD
Originality.
(I’m on a project where I post brief comments on people’s sites citing areas that need improvement.)
Is the pope Catholic? BUT I still think that god loves the PEOPLE, just hates the act. Their sin is homosexuality. Mine is an eating disorder (addiction). other people have others. They are no worse than any of the rest of us.
This really gets to me. Will God condemn me to hell for loving a woman. Or allow me into his kingdom because i detest homosexuality? I believe the bible does not teach us to hate homosexuality. I believe it preaches that it is frowned upon, that we will not be welcomed. But the bible is questioned upon too. If God detests homosexuality so much, would he let his children even be capable of engaging in homosexual behavior? Everything has more than one story.
Either way. Its God’s decision. And what your religious background is. It will never be anyone else’s.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
While your above verses may speak against homosexuality, John 3:16 shows that God loves everyone. It says the WORLD, not just Christians, heterosexuals, etc.
yea it does
The Bible says a lot of things.
If he let his son die for OUR sins. Than my sin is loving a woman (:
@LSP1 - Is that a trick question?
Of course it does. I have seen people write 2000 word blogs trying to claim the Bible doesn’t say homosexuality is wrong and all I discovered at end was that those people had never actually read much of the Bible. Notice though, the references are all to gay sex, not being gay, as in attracted to the opposite sex. The Church teaches that gay people are welcome and not sinners due to their orientation, but they are called to celibacy.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - hahahaha…I keep wanting to type something but I am laughing so hard. <3
The greatest strength of the historical Hebrews was their emphasis on hygiene–both physical and ideological. By preserving their laws in the Torah, they protected them from decaying, and similarly their laws took on a form intended to result in the prevention of disease and the maintenance of a healthy body.
Homosexual sex, for any reason you want to name, was declared unclean. Today, we have more knowledge concerning the mechanism of the spread of disease and how to prevent it. Therefore, their laws concerning physical hygiene have become outdated, while their ideological hygiene forces said outdated laws to remain in the book.
This is why the Bible literally declares homosexual sex an abomination, but why the spirit of the law does not.
(disclaimer: I’m not what a Christian would call “a Christian”.)
@anaraug - The Bible views homosexuality as a moral issue not one of hygiene.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Oh I REALLY hope that isn’t the next Geico commercial.
It could not get any clearer about it.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Yes, it’s very tricky. Be careful how you answer it.
Based on the evidence you just showed…. yes. I like the “what you see is what you get” argument.
And thank you for quoting a New Testament scripture as well. A lot of people will argue that since Christ died, we are to follow a different set of rules than the Old Testament, but the NT is just as adamant about homosexuality as the OT.
duh.
haven’t you asked this one before?
the Leviticus translation isnt a correct one. the actual language in Hebrew is harsher than just “detestable”.
But who cares ^_^ love is love is love is love. no matter what.
plus these rules were set right after leaving egypt. If you read them you’ll notice the trend of doing the opposite of the ancient egyptians ( e.g. we’re supposed to grow beards cause they shaved them). they were set so the israelites could learn freedom and independence. The anit-gay rule falls in the same category. AND this was a way to keep up the population. To go from a group of slaves to a nation requires everyone to participate in baby making ^_^
i’m done.
@nyclegodesi24 - Giggle snort. Doing well so far! ;D
Indeed, the Old Testament and Christian-Killing-Roman-Jew-Named-Paul’s letters condemn homosexuality. Thank you for your wonderful non-existent look at the Gospels concerning this matter.
Among a lot of other things, yeah.
But God LOVES gay people
(Seeing people who call themselves followers of God carrying around “God hates F*gs” signs just breaks my heart…)
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - OK. It’s not actually very important to me. To me, the Bible is literature, and that’s the beginning of why our interpretations differ, but I know that trying to convince someone of something on a level so fundamental to their world-view when they clearly believe otherwise is insulting, so I’m not going to.
In addition, I’m primarily speaking of the passages from the Torah, not Paul’s epistles. I haven’t studied the epistles as much.
The Word of God written by people just like you and I millennia ago. Content edited and re-translated dozens of times. A two Testament book with one half often contradicting the other. I mean, honestly, “They must be put to death?” Does that sound like something an all loving God would say?
So yes, it does teach that but I’m sure that wasn’t the intended message.
I accept it…It is not my lifestyle but who am I to sit in judgement of another. I have known several homosexuals and other than the “look” of their partner, they are just like you and me. I think first we have to settle whether or not it is voluntary or chemestry of birth. Personally I think the behavior or preference is learned in the crib…much too young to make a willful decision. I am going to tell you probably more than you want to know…but someone asked me one time what was my favorite color….I said blue…he said why?…I dunno I like blue, always have. He said it is the same way. They have always been attracted to the same sex. Maybe they didn’t realize they were different until puberty…but it has, as far as they know, always been that way for them.
The Bible also says not to judge and to treat others the way you want to be treated. It’s a contradictory lil book.
@mtngirlsouth - lmao.
I don’t give a rats ass how or who someone loves. That’s their business. But my husband has asked before, how can a homosexual person claim to be religious (prompted by watching The Real World two seasons ago) and still be homosexual. He said it’s impossible because their bible says they are wrong for being homosexual and it makes no sense. I can see what he’s saying…it is really weird for someone to be extremely religious and homosexual because of what the bible says.
Yep… apparently is does. But that is if one believes in the bible as the exact word of God… some of us, including me, do not. However, I do know the bible says that God created man and all that hoopla. So… if he created people gay, he must have wanted it that way. P
Yes. The Bible also teaches that greed is bad, but that doesn’t stop money loving politicians from campaigning on “Christian principles” while taking millions from lobbyists.
the bible says that engaging in homosexual sex is wrong, not that being gay is wrong. but, people are going to engage in homosexual sex if they’re gay, so yeah, i guess so.
Clearly.
But the Bible also teaches that all sin is equal. No one sin is worse or better than the other. Liars have the same rights as any other member of society, so why shouldn’t homosexuals?
I am a Christian. I don’t particularly agree with homosexuality, but its something I’m willing to accept.
I don’t buy the whole “oh, the Old Testament was just about hygiene” argument – if our hygiene is so much better today, then why do we have an AIDS epidemic? I believe the Bible was talking about the moral aspect.
YES! most def
People use the bible to justify thier actions.
yes
of course..BUT eventhough we do sins especially homosexuality, I think God still love us…(My friend said this to me..)
Must we go down this road again Dan?
Does the bible teach that homosexuality is wrong, I guess its all up to interpretation. Some will swear that it does and some will swear that it doesn’t, but where is this really getting us?
Being an atheist, I don’t care what the bible says and it doesn’t mean anything to me.
Does the bible teach that it’s a sin for gays to be nude?
There is nothing that says though that homosexual love is wrong, just the act. We don’t know the full context though. We know that the act was often performed in praise of other gods. We know that back when the Bible was originally written, humans believed that the whole human was held in the sperm. In the original wording, there is nothing that says “homosexuality is sinful”. There was no word for homosexual so we have no idea what means what. There are many different meanings we can take from the verses, especially if you do the research behind the verses. If you don’t just take everything blindly, you find that there are too many arguments against what you’re saying to believe automatically that we have the correct meaning. We cannot assume anything.
I’m all up for looking at the historical context, assuming that human fallibility tainted many of these verses, and ignoring them. Instead of telling myself even more that who I love is wrong, I’ll just live my life. I tried being straight, I tried liking guys. I’m not telling myself now to not like guys, I’m not ruling out the option, but it’s not happening. All my crushes are on girls. That’s just what’s happening. So why should I tell myself that I’m wrong and sinful for it because some guy on a pulpit decides he wants to take that verse literally (and why these verses? why not go after divorce or fornication or anything else that I can take literally from the Bible)? When I did that before it made me hate myself and I became one of those suicidal teens. I’m not going back to that and I will not support anything that led to that. And supporting the interpretation of these verses outside of historical context led to that. There is no way to know if the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong really unless you are God, but I’m going to say that it doesn’t. I’m going to say that the message has been warped through time and translations and it really needs to be studied in it’s original form.
What you have in front of you is not the original form. Even the ancient script isn’t the original form probably since the Bible probably wasn’t immediately written down. And we don’t even know if that’s legitimate in any way. Plus, how do we know the Gnostic teachings don’t have anything to add? We don’t and we won’t until we die and find out what the truth is.
Sorry for the novel but my past makes this a very touchy subject for me. The recent news doesn’t lighten it any.
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Yup.
well of course; anyone who isn’t in total denial can see that.
it says…kill the gays who have buttsex. it’s pretty clear lol.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - I’ve never checked.
Obligatory, typical answer: They also teach that it was to stone disobedient children, own slaves and that eating shellfish was an abomination. Rather than protest that homosexuality is wrong, why not boycott Red Lobster? After all, every sin is the same to god, isn’t it? Christians, if you really want to make god happy, warn the heathens the dangers of eating fire-roasted shrimp lathered in seasoning!
(Oh god, I want seafood now.)
yes, but it also says that the sin of homosexuality is on even grounds with things like lying, stealing, etc. so I don’t think that anyone who even lies is in the position to tell homosexual people that they’re going to burn in hell, or even to tell them not to be homosexual. if liars and thieves can go to heaven by going to church and being a good person, doesn’t that mean that homosexuals can do the same?
Yes. Sex is highly regulated in the Bible, and both heterosexuals and homosexuals are given standards that they must follow if they want to call on the Lord.
Oh, what can of worms are you opening with this question Dan?
It probably does say that it’s wrong. Yet, it also says that alcoholics are wrong, talking back to your parents is wrong, prostitutes are wrong, divorce is wrong. It says things about being against interracial marriage, birth control, seeing your parents nude, discussing or naming an organ. There’s a lot of things in the bible that people just completely overlook. If people can get over everything else, what is it that’s keeping them so against homosexuality? Just wondering.
@anaraug - Ha, that actually makes plenty of sense. It flows with the whole pork thing as well; though I’m still not a believer, I have to say I have a little more respect for the bible now. I love random ideas picked up from strangers with out having to do any actual research. :]
Fortunately, I don’t go by a bible or go by anything (this is not to offend any religion!). I think all religions should respect each other and other religions.
@Bushy_Tailed - It’s definitely a great book. Lots of variety. There are stories that can have great meaning even for those who don’t hold beliefs. It might even be able to hold greater meaning for those not trying to stuff the words into a box of pre-conceived notions about what it is describing.
Here is something I like.
God hates fags
Yes, but the Bible also teaches that abortion by murder is not only appropriate, but necessary when a woman commit adultery.
“Thou shalt not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14).
“If
a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his
neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death”
(Leviticus 20:10).
“If a man is
found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must
die” (Deuteronomy 22:22).
Leviticus 20:10 “If a man
commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.“
There are multiple mentions in the Bible of adultery being punishable by death. Many of them also mention that divorce is equally wrong by declaring that sex with a divorced man or woman results in adultery.
Seems to me that you Christians are wasting your time with a minority group like homosexuals when you should be going after all of those adulterers and divorcees.
What? That’s just as wrong as homosexuality is.
Yes. It most certainly does.
Does anyone know the context of the roman scriptures? The context is that God allowed them to do these things to DESTROY them. Because guess what? Back then, if you didn’t have sex with someone of the opposite gender, then you couldn’t reproduce… lickity split.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I’ve heard a lot of people try and argue their way out of this one, trying to say, “Well, this word actually can mean SOFT” and yadda yadda, well, I guess that’d be a great argument if it actually made CONTEXTUAL sense… I guess it’d also be a great argument if the ENTIRE BIBLE didn’t “only” recognize male/female relationships as marriage. – These are some great articles –
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/drosman.html
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/genetics_of_homosexuality.html
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/sexuality.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/nothardwired.html
@cataclysmic_redemption - actually, the bible gives us permission to judge one another. It does however have rules about judgment.
@PervyPenguin - In the bible, God told the Jews not to eat shell fish because they are unclean. We are not supposed to eat things that eat dead things (this is also why they were not supposed to eat pork) They (selfish and pork) tend to carry more diseases, and be more harmful. In fact, some shellfish actually go through a time frame where they can “harm” us. Instead of God attempting to break down all of the sciences, He simply told them not to eat these things to make sure that they’d be safe- However, in the new Testament Christ made all things clean/edible.
In the new testament, homosexuality is still a sin, and a device that God actually used to destroy a people.
Well, yeah. I think it’s funny that being a drunkard/adulterer is still legal, though.
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Jeez…….you
people make it sound like god is hard-wired to love and love only. Does he not
have any other feelings?? Like sadness, hate, rage, and rejection??? I think he
does. God becomes sad, when you do something that breaks his heart, he is
saddened. (And yes, god too, has a heart. Not the actual organ in terms of
biology, but the feelings that we all have…) when we continue to sin, his
sadness turns to hate. (yes as much as you want to deny it, god does hate) and
then of course if you continue on the clear path of sin, you will be rejected from
entering heaven. So every time someone
wants to do something against the bible, they just say “does that sound like something
a loving god would say?” then if a
different more affectionate (gay-loving) god exists where is his bible?? Remember, god
is not just a ball of light sitting in heaven, thousands of light years away
from us. After all, from what I know, Adam was created in the very reflection
of god, and god passed down his very own attributes onto man. (Feelings,
emotions, etcetera, etcetera) he sent Adam down to earth, (along with eve, not “john”
or “bob” …..If you know what I mean….) Btw. I wouldn’t
call the bible an ill book. If it says “to treat others the way you want to be
treated” then that statement is fair, and far from contradictory. He means in these words, that judgment is his
and his only. Like if you see a gay person, don’t make it your personal mission
to persecute the guy. Let him be, but
also keep yourself safe from such. And don’t let it (all that gayness)
infest in your family and community. Also, I want
to add, that in the statement : “to treat others the way you want to be treated”
I think god isn’t only talking about other people, but also himself. Don’t hurt
his feelings, treat him also, how you would like to be treated (translated as: don’t hurt his feelings or break his
rules, and if you do, repent and he will forgive you, or else you’ll fry in
hell) LOL at
the buttsex comment…..yeah I think its
okay if someone was born gay, that’s not sin for god made you that way (all
because he can, don’t ask why he makes gays, that’s god’s business) , but there
are those straight men who have buttsex or turn gay, now that’s SIN.I know
as humans we always want to do what we want to do, but its like that phrase “mother
knows best” God knows best. Whats best for your soul. Everything he has restrained
us from is for the betterment of our souls. And sometimes, whats best for us isn’t always that which we desire. p.s gods
love is not unconditional. He has conditions, like the bible.
The Bible says many things…. it doesnt mean all of it is true. Its been translated over and over again by men who have warped God’s words to serve their own purpose. One thing it does say, though, is that it is up to God to judge, and not us. So instead of judging others for their sexual orientation, wouldnt the more “Christian” thing to do be to turn a blind eye to the decisions that others make and allow God to do his job and have faith that he will do it efficiently? I am a straight woman, but i have many gay and lesbian friends. I love them dearly and their choices are their business. Not mine, not anyone else’s. I think it would do people a world of good to teach a little bit more about God’s ALL FORGIVING LOVE instead of worrying about what everyone else is doing behind closed doors. The only people who worry about the decisions that other people make are the ones who dont have a life of their own. Maybe they should get their noses out of their bibles once in a while and search for a life instead of a scripture that they think serves their purpose for the day.
You probably shouldn’t use the verses in Leviticus, but besides that, yes, scripture condemns homosexuality… But it also condemns drunkenness, pre-marital sex, slandering, gossip, swindling, and greed all on the same level.
Gossip, slander, greed, and pre-marital sex are all sins that are highly overlooked and passed by in the church. No one wants to believe that they live in sin… Christ also said that to inherit the kingdom of heaven, we have to humble ourselves like children. I guess we all have some work, don’t we?
nice post
God loves everyone, but he doesn’t love their sins. He loves gay people as he loves straight, but he hates that they are gay.
@ShaeHeart - God will not condemn you to Hell – you condemn yourself to hell by doing what God told you not to do.
@anaraug - We can be ostracized “Christians” together, if that’s what you mean by your last statement.
It seems people are very quick to judge just about everything and anything without first trying to think about things themselves for a moment.
no!!!
http://kristenmomof3.xanga.com/732201698/the-real-truth/
http://kristenmomof3.xanga.com/731230165/not-a-sin/
@LSP1 - @mtngirlsouth - @grammarboy - @SamBarger - @respawn87 - @sempermedusa - @korean_biyatch - @Losertastic -
no!!!
http://kristenmomof3.xanga.com/732201698/the-real-truth/
http://kristenmomof3.xanga.com/731230165/not-a-sin/
@Kristenmomof3 - I respect that you’ve done your research, but I’m going to be frank here: I don’t care because it doesn’t pertain to me. Either way, there’s certainly not consensus on the issue. I read what you had to say on the matter, and the tone assumed that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a hater. I’m not, and you can verify that with anyone. It’s not my job to condemn people, and it’s not my job to judge their rightness before God. That’s between them and God. It’s just my job to love them, and that’s what I do.
Yes, the Bible does. Should you follow the Bible? No, I don’t think you should.
@grammarboy - right on dude, right on =D
@jazbajunoon - god doesnt make people gay, silly =P
Yeah the Bible does indeed seem to be against homosexuality.
Still, gay sex is so great, so oh well.
LOL!!
Well, in all seriousness, while the Bible does say this and that, we are where we stand as readers of the Bible. Sure, one can say all about loopholes, historical context, and even interpretation of God’s word, but when it all comes down to it, I feel like it seems far more clean cut than people make it out to be. You’re either against gays or you are for them. Enough with this “I support you but not this part of you” crap!! It’s demeaning and painful to hear. The Bible, although perhaps the greatest authority on Christianity, is but a book we ourselves must read. I’m not saying that the Bible’s words are necessarily interpretable according to one’s tastes (although they seem often to be), I’m just saying that we are literally just talking about reading a book. Sure, it may be God’s word (I guess), but so is the Torah and Quran and every other religious text out there. They all claim, in one way or another, to be the literal word of God. Perhaps the greatest similarity between them all is that we are still the audience to which all this preaching is directed towards. You are still you at the end of the day regardless of whatever someone or some doctrine says to you.
I feel like despite whatever the Bible says, we should all be a little more self aware of who we are. If you support the Bible, don’t you dare say it is because that’s what God says to do!! NO, that’s what YOU choose to accept. In fact, I believe the whole aspect of free will to faith is perhaps one of the most important factors to finding God.
If you are willing to put your faith into the Bible, then do not masquerade as if the Bible is what is deciding your beliefs, NO, YOU are deciding your beliefs.
If the Bible condemns homosexuality and you accept that to be true, then that means that YOU, first and foremost, have a problem with homosexuality.
Yes, the Bible does, at least I believe, call homosexuality a sin; however, that seems to matter less because I feel the greater fact to consider is that [a large number of] “Christian” peoples are the ones to accept it as sin. Regardless of what the Bible says, I feel it is more important to take note of just how many people are willing to accept the Bible as Law. It reflects greatly on humanity in general.
I actually wrote a blog on homosexuality and homosexual marriage… it’s quite long, hahaha.
im sorry but this pisses me off, honesty, i am not a christian, catholic, mormon, jw,boodist, satinist or anyother religion you can think of, i am how ever gay and i have looked this over and over again and honestly
if we listen to everything thats writen in the bible
women wouldnt be able to teach, vote or speak infront of a croud, men would have full reign over human life in his own home, fee from consequence
and children would be beeten every day. to form a good sence of boundries
those of you in america wouldnt be able to exercise your entitled rights, specificly your 1st and 4th rights as americans would be rendered null and void
so unless you want to forfit some of your very important rights as americans, please just cut the crap and give it a rest?
@Megan@revelife - What’s the point of being gay if BEING GAY is okay, but not having a relationship?
@SamBarger - LOL’ed at my self for that….you’re right god doesnt make people gay, but aren’t there people who are just gay from birth? is it not genetically possible??
i mean, ive known a gay person who claimed that he was born gay, knew that he was gay from an early age, but was a fairly pious person, lived alone, liked cats, watched cooking shows, was one hell of a cook and shared recipes with my mother. my mom would let us go over to his place and watch cartoons (he was our neighbor), she found him to be innocent because he never left the house, had very few friends, (elderly women, mostly) and didnt associate himself with the whole buttsex crap. i believe that he cast him self away from society because he was gay, his gayness was also the reason he was low on self-esteem. poor guy, he passed away. for a GAY man like him, i can say, May God give his soul peace.
@littlechef1 - i believe the person who wrote this post wanted a more religious, spiritual insight than worldly rights and amendments. humanity is build up by religion, without guidance from god, we are worth less than animals.
@typewriterss - from my point of view, being gay; as in being “born” gay (which i dont even know if its possible) is okay.to but having a sexual relationship is wrong, its just wrong, its a shame to humanity. why must you fuck someone of the same sex when God created Eve as Adams wife? why??
The Bible teaches that a lot of things are wrong. Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to push on others and which parts they don’t. People fuss about gays more than they do about the end times, and the end times are actually coming.
@jazbajunoon - you have to be kidding me, to be frank religion doesnt do me, or to be more frank i just dont get religion, i dont belittle you for believeing in a deatie that couldnt possibly ( in my opinion) actualy exist, so who are you to tell me who i can sleep with?
I’m not sure how it could possibly be clearer.
God does not approve of any “sex” outside of marriage between a man and woman. -not only actual but also a heart matter. All relationships have God given boundaries. Move beyond those boundaries and love does not exsist – it becomes lust. Sex does not have to be present to have an loving relationship. If sex were valued in America, Americans would have greater relationships.
The Bible also says that the wicked shall be punished several times but I know plenty of wicked people who are doing just fine.
Leviticus 18:22 if women want to be ‘lain’ with like that, why would they use it as a bargining chip?
Leviticus 20:13 proves girls don’t like it.
I Corinthians 6:9 … why would there be forgiveness from a just entity commanding that? i mean just the first clause in the list “sexually immoral” can refer to sex before marriage… also “neither the sexually immoral… nor homosexuals…” is a double negative. that means that homosexuality is moral, or that the translator sucked.
I don’t really want to get into this debate as I hold conflicting views on the subject, but I just wanted to hop in here point out the fact that you should probably use older translations when quoting scripture on the subject. Example, you quote I Corinthians 6:9 from a “American Standard” Bible , but the word ”homosexual” (or homosexuality) is actually never mentioned in the original texts. Just look at that same verse from the King James Version…
I Corinthians 6:9 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
You can go back even further to the Greek texts too, you will find the same to be true.
I try to just live by those scriptures that are printed in red.
I will have to come back to this later. There are so many comments above me that are full of moral relativism and the typical man-centered Gospel that TBN/CBN spews from the airwaves. I’m pretty sure that God states it and we follow it. It’s not based on our presuppositions.
@littlechef1 - i am no one to tell you who to fuck or what to eat, or how to style your hair, and im not here to do so, im here to only state my opinion, like it or hate it.
get over it the bible was written long time ago before they even had homosexuals and so forth. This is a new generation. What god would want if for everyone to love and accept a person for who they are and not to judge another. God is the only person who can judge not the world. Can’t we all get along? Thats where the problem is at.
Yes. It does.
However, we’re all born into this world as sinners. Confess with your mouth that “Jesus is Lord” and you will receive the gift of eternal life… Just read Romans. I do not agree with homosexuals but I do agree that God is waiting for everyone in Heaven. You just have to accept the gift.
@ShaeHeart - @thestars_arefading - @anaraug - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
God’s word is what it is. It presents each of us with the same challenge: To overcome the flesh and live to the spirit. Look at 1 Corinthians 6:9 again! Pay attention to what God is saying!
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
Those quotes do. But having not read the Bible cover-to-cover, being an atheist, I wouldn’t know.
Either way, I remember my RE teacher telling me “he who takes the Bible literally is a fool”.
@FireMapleSong - There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:1-5)
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. (John 5:14)
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (John 8:10-11) I think you get it friend. Yeshua did not excuse sin.
“But where does the gospel say homosexuality is a sin?” you may ask.
The entire bible is the word of God. The same God who inspired the words of the so-called “Old Testament” walked among men in the flesh, and his message did not change one iota. What does Yeshua say about homosexuality? Exactly what His word says, regardless of what page of the book it’s on.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:1, 14)
When the word of God says homosexuality is abomination, that’s Yeshua speaking. And Yeshua is the gospel, the living, walking, breathing gospel.
Yes it does teach homosexuality is wrong. On a related note the bible is full of crap.
Yes, but the bible was also written by some fucked-up lonely hermit with way too much time on his hands.
@Mangonese - Jesus is more of a role-model than a deity to me. But in the literal sense… that means I’m a “follower”.
Yes it does. This is one of the many reasons the Bible is wrong.
@littlechef1 - I want to give you props for your first comment. Wish i could. I dont buy this “God says homosexuality is wrong just cuz the bible says it” bullshit either.
2 Kings 2:23-24
You can’t take everything in the bible literally.
Obviously it does.
While the Bible is supposedly the Word of God, it was written by man and corrupted over the years by man to serve illegitimate fears of man.
It serves as much purpose now as an out-of-date set of Encyclopedias.
http://whosoever.org/bible/
I am a Christian woman who loves women.
I believe that Jesus is the new covenant. He did not wipe out the old testament but instead acknowledged that the laws of the old testament are unattainable ideals.
I don’t believe that a loving God would torture me with these passions for all the years of my life just to damn me to Hell. I don’t believe that a loving God would damn me for loving, seeing as the number one commandment is love.
I believe that these verses against homosexuality have been altered by translation and taken out of context. I believe that this is the rape of a Holy Book.
yes, yes it does. But then again. It has been wrong before.
Obviously.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - @LSP1 - @mtngirlsouth - @grammarboy - @SamBarger - @respawn87 - (And to countless others) Oh yeah? Well how do you explain this.
@sempermedusa - AMEN. I’m so glad someone else understands this
What scares me is groups like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
These guys hate everyone, not just gays and go around the country picketing and hating. These guys are extremists.
Christ taught us to love God with all our heart mind and soul and to love our neighbors as ourselves, which means the Old Testamant is just that, the Old Testament. The New Testament came with Christ. Seems to me that if people say they are Christians then they ought to be good examples of what he taught. When I was still going to church all those years ago we used the King James Version of the Bible, with the words of Christ in red. I think this is why I believe that his teachings are what should be focused on; not blindly and literally believing the whole Bible or using the Bible to condemn and judge others.
Some of the very best people I know are gay, and they are not wicked people by any tiny stretch of the imagination. Being gay is not a choice; it is who people are, it is how they were born.
My 2 cents, since you asked.
Yes, the Bible does teach that homosexual acts are wrong.
@ShaeHeart - NO. Reread that verse again. Whomever believes in Jesus should not perish. Well, unless you know little to nothing of how to follow Christ (and a Christ follower literally translates to Christian), then you would know that a TRUE belief in & following of Christ means that there will be changes in the person’s heart & mind and a change in their actions will naturally follow those inner changes. So a person who TRULY chooses to love & follow Christ will read those verses of the Bible (as well as others) & refrain from “unnatural relations” (Romans 1:26-27). John 3:16 as well as the idea of “once saved, always saved” does not mean you have a free pass to just sin, sin, sin. If it isn’t something that comes from the heart, then the person is only deceiving themself into thinking they’re saved & Christian & going to Heaven. Change isn’t easy – I understand that. In the beginning a person may not always succeed if they’re not avoiding the situations that will temp them the most. NOBODY is perfect. However, eventually there are sins that can be avoided & altogether not committed.
@anaraug - I agree with LoBornlytesThoughtPalace. The Bible DOES in fact have some policies that were for hygeine. Homosexual acts are not, however, one of them. If that was the case, they would not say that homosexual offenders are among the wicked who will not enter into (inherit) Heaven. It does not once say that a menstrating woman is wicked & cannot enter into Heaven. Yet it says (part of the hygiene & cleanliness verses) that a menstrating woman would have to basically isolate herself from others for a certain time of her cycle. With homosexual offenders, it calls the relations unnatural. It is natural for a woman to have her menstral cycle. It is unnatural for two people of the same gender to “sleep” together.
God DOES love everyone – which is why he gave his Son’s life for ALL of us. However, if a person denies Jesus & does not love Him & follow Him, then He will not allow you into His kingdom. Because if He did, His son’s death & sacrifice would’ve been all for nothing. And if you like someone, but find that they hate you & don’t want to be at all like you – are you still going to invite them to come & live with you & consider them to be like family? I don’t think so.
I can’t speak for God, but I don’t think He would want us to hate or mistreat gay people. So when I side with the Bible & my God on this one – I don’t want anyone to automatically read that as I’m a hater. I’m not. And not just because it would be unbiblical or because I don’t think my God would want me to – but because I sincerely don’t hate anyone unless they’ve done something severe to me or my family to hurt me/us. I’m just not a hateful person. The people who are out there hurting gay people because they’re gay – while I can’t judge their relationship with Christ; I am highly doubtful of their sincere love & devotion to follow Christ. Because Christ would never do those things. I know he’d be the first to defend them actually, from being hurt – not their relations. Like others have stated – one sin is no worse than another in God’s eyes. As humans it can be hard not to place them in order of least offensive to most. However, we have to remember that & treat everyone with kindness – whether they’re Christians or not.
@shesakillerqueeen - You don’t think God could cause two bears to come & get those people? If you’re not going to believe, you’re not going to believe. But I don’t see anything wrong with this verse being literal. And even if it isn’t meant to be, there are parables in the Bible that were told to have a point and/or teach a lesson. Especially when Jesus was dealing with the pharisees & such.
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New Living Translation)
23 Elisha left
Jericho and went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, a group
of boys from the town began mocking and making fun of him. “Go away,
baldy!” they chanted. “Go away, baldy!” 24 Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them.
does the Bible as God’s written Word stand against homosexuality? yes… does God love a homosexual? Yes… why? it can be found in the person and work of Jesus…
i think the thing to note is that if God created something one way… then it should be done that way… problem is… if you keep reading from Genesis 3… a trainwreck happens and everything falls apart… what was once good was now not good… this is where the root of ALL human issues lie though… not just the issue of homosexuality… but hatred, murder, sexual deviance etc… the root of human problems stems from just one act of disobedience when Adam took the fruit and ate it rebelling against God and everything He instituted…
so the argument isn’t whether or not homosexuality is wrong… the argument is… what can be done about all that has been wrong about the human condition… cuz it wasn’t meant to be this way…
Humanity was SUPPOSED to enjoy an intimate and passionate relationship with God… it was rebellion that separated us from God and thus all the issues we face today stem from what happened in Genesis 3… and everything fell apart… our relationship with God… our relationship with each other… crime… horrifying actions… deviance of all kinds from child molestation, abortion, to murder and theft…
homosexuality isn’t just the issue… murder is just as equally the issue… as is lying and coveting and hatred and lust… it’s all the same
and it’s so serious that God died for it… which is how I think it should be approached…
The Bible also says that every time a woman has her period, she is to be sent away from her family and is to be alone…in the desert, I think it was. Should we believe we need to do that too?
@Oikakete - If that were completely true, then why would anyone be Christian? We’d all be lost & damned to Hell because the Bible has been altered & so therefore we can never know what is God inspired & man made. So we’ll never know what rules God wants us to live by & which he never intended.
However, I believe God can & does keep His Holy Word safe & unaltered & preserved. It’s Holy, God inspired & inerrant.
You can’t pick & choose & customize God’s word to fit your own needs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MDnjN3CP4E – This is NOT preachy. Just a spoof off of a Progressive insurance commercial called “The Progressive Church.” And there are churches like that I’m sure.
@SAM_in_LA - Nope. Menstral cycle = natural. Now for the hygiene aspect we have plumbing, tampons & antibacterial handsoap. This was never an issue of morality. Homosexual acts – it’s a situation of morality. But if you were unconvinced anyway, you’ll probably remain that way so I won’t argue it.
@JCCroom - @Kristenmomof3 That’s one person’s opinion and interpretation. There’s absolutely nothing in Strongs or Thayers Greek Lexicon that
even comes close to saying that the Greek word pais means a same
gendered sexual relationship. The word of God CLEARLY says that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore,
that could NOT be the correct usage of the word in those verses.
@SAM_in_LA - that’s actually one of the best laws in the bible.
@Oikakete - I’m a straight follower of Christ. I am attracted to women. My flesh wants to have sex with them – every single one I find attractive. Would my God put these passions in me only to destroy me for acting upon them? God has His own passions, and those of our flesh are diametrically oppposed to God’s. What you’re describing as “passions” is also addressed in scripture.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:24-32)
Homosexuality is not unforgiveable. Yeshua made atonement for every sin with the exception of blaspheming the holy spirit. Forgiveness comes with repentance, and like all sinners, that means turning away from the sin in sorrow and not doing it any more. Yeshua didn’t come to excuse sin, he came to PAY THE PRICE for it and call sinners TO REPENTANCE.
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mark 2:17)
Copy: @mammaquiet -
Peace
@Kimmybeth - Hygiene? Really? Okay. I get it. Moral issue versus being clean. How about this then “If however the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death…” Deuteronomy 22:13-21. I’m pretty sure this isn’t a hygiene issue.
OMG! I guess I should mention that the Bible did not float down from heaven on a fluffly pink cloud. THE CATHOLIC PEOPLE WROTE IT!!! God, you’re so stupid. Yes, I just slandered God. By the way, the german pronunciation of OMG is Oh, M, Gay. And I love it!!!!!
obviously..
but leviticus also sais that we shouldn’t get tattoos or haircuts, that we shouldn’t go to fortune tellers, not to wear mixed fabrics, shouldn’t get divorced, not to wear gold.. etc.
i guess we’re all going to hell
@JCCroom - 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
That’s how I explain that. And also, as Jesus said, from the beginning, it was male and female:
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
And, now, I ask you: How do you explain the verses quoted in this blog? It is a dangerous thing to twist the written Word. And what it says is very clear.
It appears that the Bible does teach that homosexuality is wrong. But then again, I think the Bible is against gluttony and there are tons of fat-ass religious people grazing the planet. I view the Bible as a work of fiction, great stories, but purely fiction. The whole Jonah and the whale deal, awesome. Parting seas, cool as hell but …………..FICTION
@AOK4WAY - That’s a highly convoluted argument. If you’re telling me that Jesus IS the God of the Old Testament, than by proxy I can claim that Jesus instructs us to stone disobedient children to death and other such nonsense from ancient desert-people custom. I’m not going to say that you are wrong – you can interpret the bible however you want, but historically speaking, the whole idea of Jesus preceding his birth in existence – “in the beginning there is the Word and the Word was with God, etc.” was a Platonic revision of Christian faith added to the belief system in the second century (which is why it only appears in John’s gospel) – making it no more the “correct” an interpretation of the faith than any. I understand that you cherish your biblical cannon and want to understand these vastly different historical documents contained within as a coherent, single-message collection, but to do so is to compile all of Shakespeare’s plays and read them in the chronological order that they were written in order to discover their “continuous” message and “meaning” contained within. If that’s your thing, go for it, and enjoy doing it with the friends you have who like to do the same thing, but the only thing I can say for certain about the bible, once again, is that Paul’s letters and the Old Testament aren’t big fans of homosexuality (or women, for that matter – who ironically served in Jesus’ ministry and made up the bulk of his earliest followers).
It sure does. Good thing we don’t teach kids to follow the Bible or else we’d probably have a lot more teen suicides and hate crimes.
@mtngirlsouth - Yup that sounds like exactly what the Republican party does to excuse their sin of judging homosexuals. God is love, not hate and arrogance. You should stop listening to blasphamy like Fred Phelps.
Of course it teaches that, just like it teaches that slavery is okay, you shouldn’t eat shellfish, and you can’t wear clothes that have two different types of fabric in them. So let me ask this question: Why all the focus on homosexuality?
You also need to put this in historical context. When Leviticus was written, the Jews were being exiled and persecuted by the Romans, who very often engaged in homosexual and pedophilic acts. The Jews saw the Romans as evil, so they forbid their people from engaging in some of the acts that the Romans did to distinguish themselves in the eyes of God. But the Bible has never been updated to take recent social context into account. So we’re stuck with an archaic set of beliefs that was made in a time where societal factors (as well as the knowledge they had) are no longer relevant.
@LSP1 - Two Bible scholars dude. Both the writer and the poster. As well as several others the republicans don’t want you to listen to. As I told the other girl. God is love not hate and bigotry.
@JCCroom - I have never even heard of Fred Phelps. I read my Bible. And I am not the judge, God is, and He has made what He judges to be sin very clear. I just repeat it. My idea of love is to tell the truth, even if it hurts. Not to allow destructive lies to pass for truth. You still have not answered how you explain the verses quoted in this blog. How do you explain them?
@respawn87 - Agreed completely.
Do you actually read all these comments? I think that’s the real question here.
The Bible also states that a woman’s period renders her unclean… Ought we to show prejudiced toward women on religious grounds? You neglected to site David’s relationship with Jonathon… Or Jesus’ very simple command to love one another as he has loved us (and my take on the New Testament is that Jesus was not big on judging but instead embraced mercy). USA Today yesterday published an article about social views as they are related to one’s understanding of God. When it comes to scripture, some hold that it ought to be taken literally. There are many, many others who also hold that the Bible is the Word of God and believe in its inerrency but respect that the books of the Bible reflect many different writers over vast periods of time and that to unlock it’s truths (and hence “God’s Word”) one must take into consideration the historical context and the writer. It is a sad commentary that in light of a string of suicides by youths harrassed about their sexuality that we need to have such questions to stir the fire.
it also says drunkenness is wrong and adultery is wrong. why do we spend so much time wondering where people put their genitalia but turn a blind eye to other “wrongs?”
Why does a book written by men have moral superiority over common sense? Love is love, sex is sex, regardless of who it is between. It has no personal effect on anyone other than homosexuals. Live and let live.
@mtngirlsouth - Six seperate verses that are not related to each other and in some cases don’t even say what crusaders and homophobes claim they say. For you to base a whole doctrine on this it’s you who have to explain how you fit this doctrine in with the rest of the bible. After all you have to admit the crusader doctrine does not mesh very well with Jesus’ philosophy. Jesus taught us to stick up for the weak, he taught us that we should look at our own sin before anyone elses. You’re right he is VERY CLEAR about the differences between right and wrong. You present a doctrine based on six unrelated verses. That’s not clear at all. You are in error.
Also you probably do know who Fred Phelps is. I find it hard to believe you don’t.
@mtngirlsouth - If your idea of love is to tell the truth, then why is your idea of love not also to seek the truth. The Bible says that the truth would set you free.
@RoverMoon - I sometimes wonder.
I think you just answered your own question w/ those verses.
@AngelAsh_86 - He answered the republican christianity, but Jesus taught love not homophobia. See the link I provided above.
@anaraug - Agreed.
The bible says a lot of things it shouldn’t.
“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives”Deuteronomy 22:28-29
It’s a book that was put together over hundreds of years by people, not by god, and is therefore as flawed as people.
who cares what it preaches? It’s just a story book..
@suggestivetongue - HAHAHA!
outplayed topic. but i’m gonna go with the monotonous “yes”
@jazbajunoon - I get that, but REALLY. Doesn’t being gay mean you want to have “sexual relations” with the same sex? So, you’re okay with a guy having a relationship with another guy as long as they never touch each other? There’s really no point in having a relationship at all.
Sure it does. But an old storybook written thousands of years ago means nothing to me.
@JCCroom - Strongs and Thayers are very well respected amongst Christians.
As I told the other girl. God is love not hate and bigotry.
Yes God is love. But the bible also says he’s a God of wrath and judgment. Do you just ignore those verses?
@FireMapleSong - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:57-58)
I’m not saying it friend, Yeshua himself said it. I don’t cherish anything other than my saviour, his word, and my salvation. Please examine the following:
The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. (Exodus 15:2)
“The LORD” = Yah (H3050), “salvation” = yeshua (H3444). Yah is my strength and my song, and is become my Yeshua.
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)
Don’t you think it’s kinda silly to ask a question for which you’ve already provided an answer?
The real question is what makes the Bible or even God an absolute.
Depends which parts you look at.
Yep.
@AOK4WAY - Do you see how you keep using the Gospel of John to make your case? Why no Matthew or Luke or Mark? Because we’re getting back to the Christian Platonism that was promoted by the author of John, who wrote the Gospel roughly around 120 AD and most likely never met Jesus. Christian Platonism mixed the idea of Plato that there are “perfect ideas” and then there are their counterparts in imperfect existence. Christian Platonists were gentile-Christian converts who applied Plato’s worldview to Jesus, rewriting the stories from the synoptics to show that Jesus is said perfection manifesting in reality. Your interpretation of Jesus would not have been shared by the author of, say, Mark, who wrote his gospel 60 years earlier and might have actually possibly met the historical Jesus. Again, if you wish to read Shakespeare and believe that the way King Henry V spoke based off the creative insights of some one whoever met him, that’s your prerogative, but there is no difference between what you are doing now when you claim that the Gospel of John is somehow infallible in its description of the character of Jesus. When read in context with the rest of the New Testament, it makes no sense, but when read as a stand-alone work, it functions properly. So when you use Jesus’ claim to have been one with the Lord and indeed to exist before his material manifestation, it doesn’t make sense to try and make that function within a different literary work (the Old Testament). It would be like me saying that because Q from Star Trek is ultimately omnipresent, he therefore took part in the Star Wars clone wars.
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10
Why hate on love?
ahh this is bullshit. didnt you see it clearly says male prostituting is wrong but im gussing female prostituting is right? wtf is that. you can tell men wrote this shit
@FireMapleSong - Shucks, I’ll just tear the gospel of John right outta there then friend lol. Please examine Ex 15:2, Ps 118:4, Is 12:2, so many others. in light of the original language. “The LORD” is substituted for YHWH, and salvation is translated from the original yeshua. Unsubstitute words that were replaced rather than simply translated. In each instance, Father’s word makes it clear that He and Yeshua are one! Tell me friend, what is the source of your salvation? Is it not Yeshua?
I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour. (Isaiah 43:11)
If you have a saviour friend, YHWH is it. Not my words, his. Peace to you in abundance.
It does in fact teach so, but in a matter-of-fact manner. In the same manner it teaches murder and theivery and adultary are wrong. It is detestable.
But what a lot of people attempting to keep the faith fail to remember is that anger, hatred, and withholding forgiveness from others are also detestable sins. In fact, for while sexual perversions rot the body, these sins of rage rot the soul.
So while we must always seek to prevent our loved ones from going down the path of the sadomite, we must also strive to instill in them the understanding that it is out of love that we do so, not of hatred. Too many confused youths flocked to the deepest pits of the homosexual lifestyle because their families reacted with anger and ostricism rather than with a loving heart.
Do not fail to make them understand why such a thing is wrong, but also let them know that you only act thusly for the same reason a parent disciplines a child: not doing so harms them far worse in the long run. Hate the sin, not the sinner. For are we all not sinners, in need of the same salvation?
This sums up everything.
@anaraug - What a Christian would call a Christian is irrelevant. Only you know your relationship with God.=P
The bible preaches against homosexuality, but it also preaches against killing, lying, stealing, lusting……sin is sin, there is no scale of 1 to 10. John 3:16 has already been quoted. If you are gay, lesbian, homosexual whatever…you can still be loved and accepted by God. Just like a compulsive liar, a thief, and even a killer.
@sempermedusa - Exactly. Homosexuals engaging in such is no worse than many other things that you, I, or anybody else has done. Sin is sin, period.
@RaeChan77 - Exactly. Sin is sin. The end.
@youthinasia613 - Actually, if they followed the bible, they would be accepting and loving…it’s churches that go “Yeah, I love what the bible says right here….buuuuut, I’m going to tweak this part over here the way I want it” that perform hate crimes and go all extremist.
Homosexual sex may be a sin in the bible, but so is lying. There is no scale of 1 to 10, no line you cross where you are no longer loved. =/ it says ALL sin will be forgiven if you have faith and trust in the Lord. Homosexuals can go to heaven, too, dammit.
Regardless of what the Bible says, I have no problem with homosexual men, personally. (Less competition, right?) Homosexual women…now…well, it depends…if I like ‘em…I might wish they’d turn straight (or at least bi).
cool
@ShaeHeart - agreed entirely, plus the bible was written by people and can be interpreted in many ways.
@RaeChan77 - YES!! Couldn’t agree more. Plus we aren’t God, so how do we know that homosexuals are going to hell. Its not us who decides who goes to heavon and who doesn’t.
@Galbsadi - LOL!!! your funny XD.
@sempermedusa - Interesting take, but you’re implying that the homosexuality exists outside of the person – that somehow, it can be examined and punished outside of them. This is incorrect and illogical. Sexual preference is an integral, essential part of the human being. If it is removed, something crucial to their personality is lost. The concept of “gay” is a quality; like the color “blue,” for example, it cannot exist outside of something physical.
Also: I have had an eating disorder. It is a disease, not a conscious sin. By calling it sinful, you’re implying that God will punish the individual for a legitimate mental disorder. And the same logic applies here: an ED does not exist outside of the individual; it is a part of the individual; it must be considered when examining the person as a whole. You concede yourself that is an addiction – so does God punish the alcoholics, the drug addicts who literally, physically have a dependency? If so, I would LOVE to hear how you account for the ‘righteousness’ in that.
@DuckayOfDooM - A false gospel and a false teacher there.
Quote: ”If the Bible is the story of God’s love for the world and not a handbook about sex, then that should shape how we read the Scriptures.” The bible is not a “story” of God’s love for the world, it is the revelation of God as he wills to reveal himself to us. The Living God, creator of all that is, and Sovereign ruler of that creation. Yes, his word shows that he loves us, he hung proof on a roman crucifix for all the world to see until the end of the age, yet it also reveals that he will destroy those who fail to believe and obey what he says.
In Eden, Adam and Eve failed to believe what their creator told them. What was it they failed to believe? A warning.
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 2:16-17, 3:4-5)
Their righteousness would have come by faith, and our righteousness also comes by faith, not law, thanks to Yeshua. Faith not only by believing in God, but by believing what He says.
@LiquidityOfSelf - Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:20-24)
Peace
@guyhungry - Heh, I’m just honest. In ancient Greece, homosexual men were revered for this very reason…they were removing themselves as potential suitors for available women.
@AOK4WAY - Because not questioning is a fabulous way to lead a life! Yes, let’s subscribe to something that we can’t see and not doubt it because it’s much more comforting to have a big, imaginary friend always watching!
I didn’t ask for biblical verses to be thrown at me, and I don’t appreciate the preaching. Hi – I’m an atheist.
And even if there is a God, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t tell his creations to shut the fuck up and complacently accept life as they know it. That’s not divine, that’s tyrannical. If you want to be the mindless peon, be my guest. But don’t even think that I’ll follow that same path of muteness.
A better question might be, based upon all the things considered immoral in the modern world that the bible condones, should people accept teachings like this? And I don’t care if you think certain laws in the bible were fulfilled or not, would you be comfortable with pushing slavery or stoning someone to death if they weren’t?
Let’s just be decent folks. People are who they are.
To me love is love, no matter who it is. God will love you still. I also believe God predestines everything that will happen to you. Yes, I believe in God and just because I support gay rights and premarital sex and other things the bible claims doesn’t mean I can’t.
Just saw this. Jesus believed that the law of Moses “strained at gnats and ignored the weightier matters of the law.” The Ox in the mire, he also broke the older law when he
ran grain through his fingers–the law forbade threshing on the Sabbath. He was alsocriticised for healing on the Sabbath day.
If you read the Sermon on the Mount, he say to be as our Father in Heaven whothe Rain to fall on the evil and the good. This was the law he was speaking of when he said “If ye love me, keep my commandments. Moses received a higher law and broke the stone tablet it was written upon. It must be difficult to live the Old and New Testaments literally, simultaneously, even an orthodox Jew would do suffer hard time if he/she took literally what the Old Testament says about Capital punishment.
The Bible says a whole lot of interesting things. I’ve been a Catholic school student my whole life. I rather quickly decided I wouldn’t live by a book.
@TheGildedCage - According to the Bible, every sin is equal. That means homosexuality isn’t any worse than any of yours, your husbands, or anyone else’s sins. So with that being said, how can anyone who steals, lies, gossips, disrepects their parents, ANYTHING that’s a sin, claim to be so religious? No one is perfect. Homosexuality doesn’t affect who you are, and shouldn’t affect your religion either.
@LiquidityOfSelf - ”Hi – I’m an atheist.” – Hi! I’m Tony, nice to meet ya atheist. “If so, I would LOVE to hear how you account for the ‘righteousness’ in that.” – I was only giving you what you asked for. God doesn’t need his people to account for him, he answers for himself. Don’t worry, I’m not out here trying to “win souls”. You be an atheist, and I wish you peace. Sincerely. Peace
I surprised the answers are so short and to the point. (I would say unless you do the translation argument, it would definitely be looking like it’s against homosexuality)
As far as I’ve looked into it, it says that acting on those feelings is the sin. Notice how it is listed with many other sins, and so homosexuality is equated to being drunk or stealing; it is no worse. Many people who are radically against homosexuality give Christians who are compassionate and understanding (as they should be) a bad name. The churches should be saying, “your feelings for someone of the same sex are sinful, but we can be empathetic. We can pray for you. We can help if you recognize that it is wrong.” I don’t agree with being gay, but I would never be hateful or purposely brush someone off if they struggled with those thoughts and feelings.
@LiquidityOfSelf - I think we have a different definition of what sin is, so I will preface this by saying that I define sin as anything that separates you from God. I also believe that we live in a fallen sinful world, and homosexuality is a result of that because it does not follow the original intention for human sexual relationships. The purpose of sex is not pleasure, it is procreation. If God had intended for a man to have sex with another man or a woman to have sex with another woman, then they would be able to produce offspring. Since they cannot, it is against nature and homosexuality separates these people from the will of God, and thus, from God himself.
Now, I once again will say that I do not pretend to be any better than anyone else, in fact I truly believe that I am worse than most. My two biggest outstanding issues are my eating disorder and self-injury, both of which are addictive diseases, and I honestly believe that my depression is a result of living in a fallen world (of sin). I say that addictions are sins because, as I said earlier, they separate a person from God. I will use my eating disorder as the example, since it is common to both of us. I am struggling with recovery at the moment, so I have become painfully aware that addictions isolate you. I first noticed this with other people, specifically my friends and family. I became irritable. I totally withdrew from them, and even became volatile towards them. It was not because of anything they did but because the voice of my eating disorder kept telling me that I was worthless, undeserving of love, and undeserving of life. It told me that I was ugly, and that nobody actually liked me, they were around me because they felt guilty. I began to feel very, very abandoned, and that extended to God. I lost trust. I lost trust in my family, friends, church, school, teachers, the entire human race, God, and even myself. I stopped trying. I stopped living out a purpose in my life. I stopped praying because I didn’t think he could care, and my soul purpose began to be thinness. I wanted to die, and that became my only goal in life. I wanted to be thin, just slowly disappear. I spent all my time trying to be thin. I thought it would make everything loved. I began to WORSHIP being thin. (and that’s idolatry, which I’m pretty sure is in the 10 commandments) I still can’t really pray. This has left me in a terrible, deep pit, and I cannot see the sun. It has left me alone, abandoned, and in despair. I would say it has separated me from God. Therefore, it is sin. It takes over your life. You cannot lead a full, rich, purposeful life with an addiction.Now, with the punishment thing. I assume you are talking about Hell, right? Well, I have two things to say about that. The first is that Hell is not Dante’s inferno. It is a choice. It is total separation from God. He will not force a person to be with him if they do not want to be. The second is that we do not get to heaven by MERIT but by GRACE. God is just and merciful. Because he is just there had to be a sacrifice, a payment for sin, and because he is gracious he sacrificed himself and given us the ability to be with him. Therefore, he will pull us through and free us from these things and to be a purposeful, loving relationship with him. He restores purpose in our lives and helps to deal with these sins and free us from them. Does this answer your question?
Of course.
But then, you shouldn’t take fiction so seriously.
OH GOLLY GEE , OF COURSE NOT -________-
that`s the only thing i`ll go against the bible on . i totally support gays 1OO% & anything having to do with them . the bible preaches love more than it teaches against homosexuality , soooo i`ll go with love ♥
@guyhungry - Exactly! =3 <3 <3 <3 <3
obviously it does. it’s so stupid. how do people know if it wasn’t just some ignorant nutcase with good writing skills who wrote the damn thing.
fuck. like it pretty much says if you’re gay you’re a pervert.
The Bible does, yes. But the Bible was written by men. Jesus, the center of Christianity, never said anything on the subject. Obviously these men that wrote the book were pretty disgusted by homosexuality, so I think if they had heard Jesus condemn homosexuality, they probably would’ve been pretty eager to write it down.
Also, it is only mentioned in two places really. One being the Old Testament, listed along with many other “old laws” that Christians don’t follow anymore. They believe that when Jesus came to earth, lived a sin-less life, and was crucified in our place, that it freed us from having to live by the old laws anymore. Hence why Christians don’t sacrifice sheep anymore that I know of.So assuming that the Bible is really inspired by the words of “God”, and God really did tell people in the Old Testament not to engage in homosexual relations, I would guess He probably had a pretty good reason for it. My best guess is like what @anaraug - was saying. And also how those things no longer apply in this day and age. But again, if you really follow Christianity, you’d believe that we are not ordered to follow these old laws, so I don’t understand why many, if not most Christians continue to hold on to this particular law.
The second mentioning of homosexuality is in books written by Paul. He’s the only person post-Jesus’-time that mentions it. But… Paul said a lot of things. A lot of things that seem to grossly contradict other “teachings” of the Bible. Coincedently many of these other contradictions were also related to sex. Which to me, suggests that the man had some other issues, and we really can’t take his mortal word to be that of God’s.
I’m also not what most Christians would consider to be one of their own.
It doesn’t appear that the love itself which is considered detestable.
It’s rather about “coitus” (same ‘koit’ as in ‘arsenokoitai’).
Jesus even treated prostitutes kindly, that doesn’t mean he liked this type of sexual activity.
Who the fuck cares? Is God even real??
the bible is irrelevant to me.
but it does say a lot of things are “sins”. but people get the most (no pun intended) butthurt over homosexuality.
For the record, which translation are you using? Since you posted an image of a New American Standard Bible, my first assumption is that you are using that translation, but you know what they say about assuming . . .
@musicmom60 - OMG you are so, like, totally right. that’s totally why so many babies get aids too. babies are morally wrong! God hates babies.
@sempermedusa - if God only made sex for procreation, why did he create us with the ability to orgasm and be pleasured during sex? that seems retarded. why would a woman have a clitoris? That’s definitely not needed for sexual reproduction, only pleasure.
and depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, not a fallen world. there have been cases of depression recorded from basically the beginning of any psychological study.
but of course the clitoris developed because of sin and chemical imbalances were caused because of sinand everything is sins fault. and satans fault. and our fault. but “god loves us anyways”.
I hate gays. I make sure to go undercover as a lesbo and have sex with women just to see if they need to be saved. YOURE WELCOME JESUS
@sempermedusa - I wasn’t asking a question, I was simply pointing out errors in logic. I find the entire subject of theodicy philosophically interesting, actually, so that’s the approach that I took (following the Aristotelian concept of “essence”).
I have to point out that your explanation assumes both a) the existence God – and not only that, the existence of a benevolent, typically Western God, and b) the existence of universals like “right” and “wrong,” both are which HIGHLY debatable. I’m not here to proselytize, though, so I’ll leave those alone (debating the first inevitably entails the second, so they come as a pair). So, moving on…
I apologize in advance if I ask a lot of questions; you just seem like someone who has a good grasp of the logic behind faith, and as an atheist the entire mindset really intrigues me. I’d rather hear from someone who has really meditated on their beliefs as opposed to someone who complacently accepts religion at face value
(Also, you’re not preachy. Major kudos. Seriously. Someone already pissed me off with that approach, ha.)
Okay: the concept of a fallen world. What is occurring today that is egregiously more offensive than what has occurred throughout all of history? Maybe one could argue that the dawn of organized civilization introduced hierarchies, greed, and materialism (hunter-gatherer communities seem very benign – seem). But if we’re going back that far, then what about Eden? Since Eve bit the apple, haven’t we all been living in a fallen sinful world? (Maybe you mean to say that the world is fallen and sinful by nature; if so, I apologize for the above rambling – debating the condition of the world is way too big of a concept for comment boxes!)
I can’t deny that homosexuality is technically “unnatural”: regardless of whether man was made by science or God, he is biologically suited to reproduce with a woman. The connotations that come with that word are horrid, however, and they categorize homosexual individuals as perversions of humanity; I don’t need to explain to you the atrocities that follow from this. Furthermore, considering them ‘lost’ or ‘disconnected’ with God is your prerogative, but it can’t account for the fact that many homosexuals are entirely content and happy with their lives and their sexuality. In fact, many are happiest when they embrace their sexuality; denying it and sweeping it under the rug only creates further tension with the world. Are these happy ones just ignorant of their disconnection from God? – I don’t think so. Your kind of disconnection from God implies a certain darkness and hollowness of living, which they (in this case) clearly do not exhibit.
Also, I take issue with your claim that homosexuality is a result of a fallen world, because this implies that a select group of individuals suffers the effects of detachment from God for the masses. Is homosexuality planted in them as an inherent feature? – this would be unfair: according to your logic, God would be dooming them (from conception) to a life detached from him. Not very good or benevolent. And even if homosexuality is an individual’s chosen preference, is it really possible for this development to still be in reaction to a fallen world? – I doubt it; it is illogical (and unrealistic) to say that the individual recognizes the evil of the world and develops homosexuality due to this. This simply does not happen. The individual becomes homosexual because he/she feel attracted to their own sex – not because they are reacting to the condition of the world. To consider a counter argument: Claiming that their knowledge of a fallen world unconsciously fosters homosexuality does not make sense either: it would imply that the subconscious of the individual (which is debated itself) sees the negative developments in the world…and seeks to identify with them? – No: it just doesn’t work.
I could literally write pages on your second paragraph (you saw how much I talked about one paragraph…), so I’ll just stop there. Hearing about your experience with an ED while believing in a God was very interesting, though – especially because my journey and recovery from my ED/depression/self-harm was secular. But hey – different things work for different people
Yes, it obviously does.
…but it also teaches a bunch of other fucked up shit that I don’t believe or agree with, so I don’t think too much of it.
@AOK4WAY - I would have rather heard your own thoughts than you spitting a quote from a book at me; for the record, that’s not impressive. And any being who only answers to his/herself is a danger to society, in my opinion.
@femaleBASSPLAYER - I feel the same way. They have planks in their eyes and really need to take them out.
This has got to be the most un-winnable battle in the history of debates and blogging. Some say yes, some say no, and everyone wants to give you a fact from a secondary source. Your beliefs may not match that of another person. Your religion may not be the same as your neighbor. Yet, we live in a country where church is supposed to be separated from state; in a frame of mind where people claim it is, but actions and views say another thing altogether. It always comes back to morality. I can say yes it does, because almost everyone believes in what The Bible teaches. I was raised to say yes but through my own exploration of the world (which is still an ongoing process–I’m only 25) I firmly say NO. And this is from someone who believes in God with all my heart, all my soul, and all of a very conscious mind.
I am probably an outcast and a strange mutant hybrid. While I believe in God, I question the Bible. How many authors of these books were there? How much of the oral tradition did they keep? How much was altered, how much had bias. How much bias? It really makes me a little angry to know that there are people commenting here who choose to downplay the analysis of those who believe The Bible does not teach against homosexuality. What’s wrong with not taking words for their face value? The conflicting beliefs are what keep this entire argument ablaze. A lot could have been lost in the human transportation and translation of these stories. There’s more to everything in The Bible than we give it credit for. Even the most learned scholar has something to learn.
It’s an insult just because some of us don’t share that level of belief based on “what’s right there”. One little blog, TWO little blogs for or against it don’t add up to anything. 2000 and then some are still just the tip of the iceberg. At the end of this entire squabble, there is a fact that still stands tall–Gay people are here to stay whether or not one or a million religions are against them. What stops them HERE are the laws. What stops them are the ugly hearts of “Christians” holding up signs and telling them where they’re gonna go like they have the authority from God himself. I can say “let God decide” until my brown skin turns dark purple, but I know no one will want to hear that. God created all humans and made NO mistake in how they were made. There’s a purpose, there’s a lesson, and there are many tests to be taken behind them. Maybe I SHOULD say that, because it must not be too clear. And even if God isn’t a part of someone’s religious experience, who are we to shove those scriptures in their face? Is that fair? Their sexuality isn’t in our hands to be seen as abhorrent or otherwise. Clean or not, it’s their preference and it does nothing to effect our lives.
Do I believe that The Bible is against homosexuality? If we’re basing on point-face value of one Testament, yes. If we’re going to to base it on both Testaments, no. I find it interesting that someone here in the comments said that we ignore one text to favor another, then they did the same thing. The same goes for undermining the views of someone who feels that homosexuality is not being seen as wrong. This is an endless argument with no true point of completion. I say no, someone says yes, and the argument continues.
As for me and my own personal body, I say no.
Clearly the dudes who wrote the Bible didn’t like gays. It’s been 2000 years.. it’s time to move on.
@sempermedusa - I agree. All sins are the same in god’s eyes.
Ok, good job. Half a dozen references toward homosexuality. Now, please count up and type out every verse that is directed towards greed, self-pride, and money. Oh wait, that would take too long.
Something tells me there should be a post about that instead of this.
Yes it does show it’s wrong. I’m a very religious person but I don’t find being gay wrong, I don’t exactly agree with it but it’s not my life. Everybody is born the way they are for a reason. I think we need to stop judging the ways people live their lives and focus on just living ours.
@anaraug - the problem with that argument is that homosexuality is declared immoral in the New Testament, by the same author who also declared that Christians are no obligated to follow the law. Your argument that scripture condemns homosexuality due to cleanliness considerations can only be applied to the Old Testament text (in addition to the fact that you assign motives for the laws that aren’t explicitly in the text)
I think it’s clear that it teaches that homosexual acts are wrong, but no more wrong than any other sin.
@JCCroom - The verses quoted in this blog are very clear. The only one who would have anything to “seek” after reading them would be someone who wishes to twist their meaning. They stand alone very well, and their meaning is very clear. How do you explain them? I have asked you this three times. If you had the truth, why do you not answer?
Based on this…most likely yes. But it doesn’t give some people a right to harass, kill, and hate gays. I thought the point was to love one another despite our sins. Unless your a saint you have no right to pass judgement on someone (or at least try not too)
I don’t know why they even brought this subject up when the Bible is “perfectly clear” on the matter.I am a lesbian who’s trying to live a Christian life and I’ve had people try to tell me to be proud of who I am,be proud of how God made me,,,He didn’t do this to me,,,go back and read it again people.
@JCCroom - Actually, I had to google the name. I am familiar with the infamous Westboro Baptist Church. And I do know who he is now. And I do not believe that God hates homosexuals anymore than I believe He hates liars or thieves or adulterers.
Those verses clearly state that for a man to have sex with a man is an abomination. And the NT ones are clearly describing homosexual sex. In order for what you believe to be true they would have to mean the opposite of what they actually say. In this conversation, I have simply refered to the written word, not what some man says, as you did. I did what Christ did, and quoted what is written.
@LiquidityOfSelf - No, no! Don’t apologize! I LOVE this. I actually used to be a devout atheist and used to spend hours and hours debating theology with Fr. Eric, and I miss it very, very much. I am glad honestly, that I am not, I try very hard because even as a Christian, I find preachiness to be a major turn off. The holy rollers are just…well, intimidating, and I tend to find myself going on the defense, even though, theologically, I agree with a lot of the things they do. So really, thank you.
There is nothing worse about the world today than in the past. Nero was Rome’s Hitler. People have been killing each other, raping each other and stealing things forever. I actually really like the old testament in the bible, because you see the same reoccurring cycles. I think the best one to reference is the books of Judges and 1 and 2 Kings(because they are really nothing more than a history of Israel during certain time periods, so I am speaking from a historical perspective right now, not a theological one) If you look at the book of judges, it’s just like the United States today. Things started out really good under the judges. Israel prospered. Then, over time, they got worse and worse and worse. The people became divided and the Judges (which was just what they called their rulers at the time) became more and more corrupt, and the nation was thrown into a downward spiral until they moved into the rule of the Kings. When the Kings ruled, the first was Saul who was not good, the King David, whom Israel prospered under, and then they followed the same pattern as the Judges. I have absolutely no doubt about the accuracy of these accounts, because I honestly believe that the United States is currently going through the same cycle. (I’m not necessarily ripping Obama, by the way. but Politicians are becoming more and more corrupt, as you can see from the election in 2000, which was the most negative campaign in history) When I say a fallen world, I am implying that it has been this way since Eve bit the stupid apple, and I am referring to this constant, downward cycle, and, for lack of a better word, the general evil that takes place in the world that has taken place since the beginning of time.A person can be happy and disconnected from God, I’m not implying that, but I am saying that there’s always going to be something missing. There will never be joy. Happiness is little more than a pleasant emotion which comes and goes at it’s own pleasure. I am going to use my eating disorder again, because, as I said, it is the easiest example. It made me happy when I would lose weight. It made me happy at the end of the day when I realized that I had eaten nothing but an egg white and burned over 1000 calories. That happiness, of course, never lasted very long, but the point is that it is possible to be happy while being separated from God. You also bring up a very good point, which I maybe was not very clear on as far as homosexuality. I am not saying that they are perversions of humanity. Humanity is a perversion of humanity. I am just saying that the act is not natural, which you have agreed with. I am also by no means, saying that only they are damned to separation, and that they are somehow worse than the masses. On the contrary, I am saying that everybody is separated from God. The only exception is Jesus (who was fully God and fully man, according to my faith, which is a paradox that I cannot quite comprehend, nor do I ever think that I will) I know I may be contradicting myself, or saying something very controversial, but I must say it, because it is crucial to being able to describe my world view. I am saying that when he died, because he was God incarnate, he took all the sins (including homosexuality, addiction, murder, thievery, everything serious, and everything trivial) onto himself, and when he rose from the dead, all of those sins were forgiven, and it is up to the individual to accept that forgiveness. Furthermore, I believe that a homosexual person can have a meaningful relationship with God, just as I can. Regardless, they, like everyone else will struggle, because nobody is perfect. I think of my eating disorder and homosexuality as very similar (though I know perfectly well that mine is darker and has a more negative impact on my life) in that it is something that is very much a part of my being. It is something that I will always struggle with no matter how long I have been recovered. It will always affect me, and there will always be that tension. So it is with homosexuality. That individual, if they chose to pursue a relationship with God will always struggle to reconcile that with their faith, but just to reiterate, nobody is exempt from that. Everybody has at least one thing (and many of us have multiple things) that cause this tension and struggle. I am not saying that all hope is lost, or that we should hate the homosexuals. (One of my best friends is homosexual) Rather, I am suggesting that we ought to love them because we all share the same fallen human condition, and not a single one of us is any better than anyone else.
PS I’m sorry…I am WAAAAAY too wordy for my own good.
@LikeaMothToAFlame - Hey, I didn’t say that sex wasn’t pleasurable, just that it’s main purpose is procreation.
For the depression, I am implying that before the fall, everything was perfect and there was no such thing as disease or death, and thus no chemical imbalances.
Yes.
But a man doesn’t lie with a man as he lies with a woman–anatomically impossible!
@Tallman - yeaaaah but wait till they die =P He is a pretty patiant god, .
@WithTheBirdIShare - I considered replying to some people who were telling me that I only mentioned the first half of the quoted verses and ignored the other half, because I have other reasons for disagreeing with Paul’s writings. But I decided not to because those reasons are nowhere near as elegant or concise as how I feel about the Torah, and also because I don’t really have a problem with people thinking differently from me.
@RaeChan77 - I didn’t want a bunch of people to say “you don’t speak for me!”, so I said it for them.
@anaraug - Nah, I get where you’re coming from. I just wanted to let you know I disagreed with anybody who said that to you. =]
the bible also says that you can stone your wife, sell your daughter into slavery, kill someone for wearing two of the same fabrics or planting different crops side by side. it says a lot of things because yes, it is the word of god but it was penned by MAN who is FALLIBLE.
two of the same fabrics – sorry two different fabris
I honestly think it depends on how you look at it. For example, the first one, instead of lying with a man as a woman, lie with a man as a MAN. See? In this world there are men, women, and then there are gays (whose tendencies differ from the majority). Really, I think it is speaking out against bisexuality and lust.
People only talk about gay sex and the bible because it’s the one thing they don’t engage in that is sinful, and that they probably don’t know anyone who does it, either. So they think they can get high and mighty about it, and speak of it like it’s oh-so-bad. But it’s just like anything else. Greed is a sin, being lazy is a sin, getting a divorce is a sin. Shopping for groceries on the Sabbath is a sin. So why are gays the fifth horse of the apocalypse? And, yes, I’ve read the bible, I know there are only four.
The Bible also says that all sin is equal. No matter what we do, from telling a little white lie as a five year old, to orchestrating the death of six million Jews as an up-and-coming world dictator, the penalty is always death.
But sin is an action, just like love, and God loves all of us, including homosexuals, and probably even the people calling themselves Christians while they kick people out of church and drive them away from Christ with His own name.
We’re all dirty rotten bastards that deserve to realize first hand what it means to reject our Creator and have Him let us go. But He stepped in the way of the metaphorical bullet instead, that means for everyone, no matter what.
Check out Acts 8:4-8. Samaritans. Jews hated them, thought they didn’t deserve God. Philip told them Jesus loved them, and what does verse 8 say? oh, right; “So there was great joy in that city.”
http://www.crc-computer.com
@redxxbracelet - So God hates what he created? Because…you do know homosexuality isn’t a choice, but just a matter of fate.
The Bible says a lot of shit that I don’t believe in. This book was written hella days ago, and there are numerous translations and interpretations. No one knows what’s real and what’s fake. However, I’ll let people believe whatever they want to believe.
@typewriterss - i dont know if being gay means wanting a sexual relationship. you should ask a gay, im not gay. i never specifically said that im okay with gays having a relationship as long as its not sexual, im guessing that would be more acceptable, but most likely impossible, dont you think?? because then as you say, there would be no point at all, (because im not sure if one can only “love” someone with the heart without wanting a sexual relationship?? is that even possible anymore? or is that love only the love of story books? because in todays society, people, (the ones ive come across) and not only gays but straights as well, have interperted the word “love” as the action of having sex……… it would be pointless, and if a non-sexual gay relationship is pointless then why should it exist?? specially when the only outcome from such would be sin?? .. if God is not pro-gay, then neither am i.
@LSP1 - …..they just ignore the verses. but ignoring doesnt mean that it doesnt exist, it doesnt make it vanish, it only adds to ones self ignroance.
The first time the word “homosexual” was used was in 1892. How could the bible have used it before then?
I believe the bible is a book of interesting stories that outlines a generally ethical code of conduct [that many non-religious people practice as well, without having to worship some other being], but it’s also a book full of hypocrisy and paradoxes.
So to answer your question, yes. The bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong. But they also teach to love and accept everyone. Which side do you listen to?
the problem is when people are deceieved by a untruth or lie, they dont know they are deceived untill light is shown on the area by the holy spirit.
knowingly accepting a little untruth will blind a person sure as …
so justifieing somthing because you cant accept it as being your sin will also blind you and you will open yourseft to more untuth. so at the end you will be given over to it.
praise to the Lord God , who will fi we ernestly seek truth alow us to find it and will deliver us ..
I was given over to alcohol for many years , but this year the lord gave me the vitors crown in a dream and I no longer has an desire for It , but we must surrender it totally to Him who holds the victory for us.
Praise to christ . from Mike
@sempermedusa - Um, okay, your tone and philosophy are exactly what mine would be if I was religious. I love this. Also, I’m wordy too, so I can never complain there…
I entirely agree with you that human beings are no worse today than they were thousands of years ago, absolutely – I push it farther to say that we’re no more or less intelligent, either. It drives my mother insane (What about the cannibals and those primitive tribes?) but, then again, she’s bigoted. Using the Bible as historical evidence, though, is questionable: I see the Bible as fiction (potentially historical fiction) written by individuals with a view-point and an agenda; it’s prone to be skewed and slanted in one direction, which makes me slow to trust it. (And this skepticism doesn’t just apply to the Bible: the writer should always be considered before a work is examined.) But, we both see eye to eye on the status of the world, which I find interesting because we inadvertently see joy/sin as stemming from different places. Actually, I prefer not to use the word sin because it invokes the concept of Eden and that pessimistic view that man is fallen and is always in debt. I don’t think human beings are inherently evil, though it may seem that way: we’re just prone to self-interest. There’s a survivalist aspect to our being that in and of itself is not reprimand-able (it’s natural), it just has a tendency to manifest itself in different ways as each individual finds different ways to “joy.” This works for your worldview as well as it accounts for why individuals keep striving to be in touch with God: they want to reach joy. They want a pleasant afterlife. They want. (A problem I have with religion is that it often criticizes this inherent component of self-interest elsewhere while the entire faith system operates on it.)
Furthermore, I entirely agree that there is a difference between happiness and joy (it might be further demonstrated when stated as pleasure and joy) – I don’t need to tell you that my concept of ‘joy’ doesn’t invoke God. I see joy as coming to terms with self and body; that is, recognizing the elements that bring only fleeting happiness (like an eating disorder) and knowing why and how to strive for happiness with longevity and healthy benefits. I think joy is entirely possible without God (and I consider myself proof) – so how can you tell me that I’m less than I am? I am at the best point in my life that I have been in a long time, and I got here secularly. I think this boils down to the fact that different things appeal to different people, and everyone needs to respect that. I simply choose a different way of thinking that cannot and will not bank of cosmological belief (or blind belief in any capacity). My experience with an eating disorder, actually, was the most religiously charged experience of my life: Ana was God; I literally craved enlightenment; I would sacrifice myself, see myself as sinful, guilty, when I did not follow her rules. Anorexia banks on the same human desires as religion, and therefore, I find it highly dangerous. I don’t need to spell out why I find religion dangerous too: you’ve been there, and so many of the evils of an ED apply to Catholicism, Islam, whatever.
Your explanation of homosexuality does make more sense of your philosophy, though I still don’t understand how/why the homosexuality occurs in reaction to a fallen world. And if the homosexuality is in itself sinful, then shouldn’t the individual try to rid himself of it for true joy as opposed to constantly struggling to make amends with God? – I guess I’m going back to my original question in saying: if homosexuality sinful, then the individual is sinful because that homosexuality is an integral part of their being – and this basically leaves individuals who were born with extremely high testosterone/estrogen for their gender out in the cold. Maybe a question to consider here is where/why homosexuality actually begins, though I doubt scientists even have a hard and fast answer to that. Personally, I feel it’s a mix of biology and environmental factors. Your view may account for those who develop homosexuality, though it’s still very fuzzy to me why/how that happens and how it can logically be a reaction to a sinful external world (I addressed this in my last response). There’s an issue of causation here.
@anaraug - Did you know that currently 1 in 5 gay men have HIV and many don’t know it? We aren’t as Hygienic as we want to believe we are.
Even the New Testament call is to not be deceived. The truth is
The Word is saying sin is bad, leave the sin behind or you have not
understood that you will not be one of the few to “Inherit” the kingdom
of God. The Pharisees wanted to debate and twist the law so they could
manipulate it also, but Jesus told them what they were doing was not
keeping the law, but perverting it for their gain. Remember he was
raised in the highest order as a Rabbi, and he amazed even the most
educated Rabbis when he was just a child. Of course he did because he
WAS The Word.
We can debate it all we want. If you believe in The Bible you will call it Truth. If you do not believe in The Bible it won’t matter anyway.
The debate here isn’t really about whether it is good or bad, that is subjective, but if you believe in The Bible as a Christian. It’s about your faith. That part that only you and God see when nobody else is around. If you say it is “THE” Word of God then you must believe it is true or you are not REALLY a believer and you are just trying to buy “fire insurance” Just saying you are a tree does not make you a tree (That is a parable BTW, so all of you literalist calm down). This debate isn’t really about Homosexuality of course. It’s really a test or a “Trick Question”. . If you don’t at least try not to sin, then you are not any different than the rest of the world. It’s really about, If you say you are a Christian, be one 100%. Sorry all you Atheist and Agnostics, this one is really not about you. To a Christian it is a lesson, to everyone else why do you care? Dan is tricky that way. LOL!
Obviously, it does. http://www.familyradio.com.
@andmikes - Congratulations Mike. It’s great to be delivered from alcohol! One day at a time my Brother.
Love and Peace,
Phil
you are arrogantly ignorant and you are blaspheming a god that creates homos in every living species
those who actually read the bible never use it as a weapon to bash gays
shame!!!
see what the bible actually says here:
http://aliciabanks.xanga.com/733349822/top-10-biblical-myths-about-homosexuals/
3. Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians all refer to “unnatural sex”for HETEROSEXUALS. It is NATURAL for HOMOSEXUALS to engage in homosexual sex. Yet, heterosexuals sin daily as gay prostitutes, porno film stars, lewd voyeurs, prison rapists, etc….
From The Good Book: “In Romans…Paul did not discuss gay persons but heterosexual people who performed homosexual acts. To suggest that Paul’s references to excesses of sexual indulgence, involving homosexual behavior, are indicative of a general position in opposition to same-sex eroticism, is as unfounded as arguing that his condemnation of drunkeness implies opposition to the drinking of wine. In Corinthians 1:7, Paul discusses the conjugal relations that ought to obtain between christian husbands and wives. For those whom celibacy was too high a price, he issued his famous edict that it was ‘better to marry than to burn’- not in hell. But with desire for the satisfaction of sex. Nowhere does he mention the sole purpose of such conjugality is the procreation of children.”
4. In Levitcus, homosexuality is an abomination not because it is inherently evil, but because the Gentiles do it. It is, therefore, ritually impure.
From What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality: “Leviticus condemns sex as a religious crime of idolatry-not as a sexual offense. Romans suggest that sex acts have no ethical significance whatsoever. Corinthians and Timothy object to specific forms of male prostitution.These books do not refer to homosexuality. They make a general condemnation of moral looseness, lewd, lustful, and lascivious behavior.”
wake up and stop disgracing god and homos wirh your buybull hypochristian bs
you are sinfully ignorant!
http://aliciabanks.xanga.com/732742147/savage-sanctuaries—their-own-receive-them-not/
…what is perceived as natural does indeed change over time
‘love the sinner, hate the sin’. Many find this perspective illogical. They argue if same-sex attraction or expression is what makes the person gay, then what is being loved? With sexuality being an inextricable part of one’s being, the popular saying has as much success in reality as loving brown-eyed people while hating brown eyes.
I regard sin as those behaviors that violate, destroy, and abuse our fellow human beings and our relationships with them. In this respect, homosexuality does not belong in the category of sin any more than heterosexuality does.
@coconut_dream - First, It didn’t. It said don’t have sex with another man or woman. Couldn’t be much clearer than that.
For you last question – Both. The words you are using are instructions for Christians. I accept everyone and try to teach you what I know about Christianity. That is the “Love Everyone” aspect. You chose to believe it or not based on your further exploration. The catch is God will be the judge according to The Christian Bible. In the end it’s His call. I don’t get to judge, so that keeps me open to love everyone.
@bAbiiExxPiNay - God does not hate what he created. He is being a good father and setting rules to keep us from burning our hand on a hot stove. Of course he will beat down anyone who hurts his “kids”
@Winsa - “Let he among us without sin cast the first stone”- scene in the new testament where Jesus defends the prostitute.
“…. When you say that they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things.” – Romans 2:1
And the golden rule of treating others the way you used to be treated, to name a few instances where Christians are told not to judge.
@cataclysmic_redemption - The golden rule is not from the Bible silly…LOL!
Yes. The Bible is a collection of books. It’s good to look at the context -
“
21
Because that, when
they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but
became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was
darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And
changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to
corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping
things.
24Wherefore
God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own
hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who
changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the
creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”
God is spirit. The Bible is not God, and God is not a man. Jesus was certainly a creature, just as we are creatures.
@Pastor_Rock - Uhh didn’t Jesus preach to treat others as you wish to be treated?
wel i mean how is tht not saying its wrong saying we wont go to heaven and we should die? thts messed up so a man who raped a grl can go to the “kingdom of god” but i couldnt?? fuck tht
Yes.
But it also teaches this ideology that MANY Christians seem to overlook: ”Love the sinner; hate the sin.” We don’t have to agree with what other people do, but we are to love everyone nonetheless.
@Pastor_Rock - Luke 6:31 “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” NIV
Really? It’s definitely in the Bible.
@LiquidityOfSelf - Friend, I’m not trying to impress anyone, I can’t even impress myself. I’m nothing but a man who has lived the most sinful of lives and has accepted forgiveness and mercy from the God who loves me and loves you. Most gays have lived far more moral lives than I did before that happened. I’m not throwing stones; stoning is the carrying out of a death sentence. I don’t want to see ANYONE destroyed! I’m warning people about the death sentence that has already been decreed against all men and telling them about the one and only way to avoid it. I did share my thoughts with you, friend. Your thoughts have been influenced by books, so have mine. You aren’t the first person to think the things you think, you heard them elsewhere first, and so did I mine. You agree with what you’ve read and heard elsewhere, I agree with scripture, completely. Our sources differ, our opinions differ, but not our levels of originality.
I’m 47 years old, thoroughly educated, possessed of logic to a flaw, a reasonably skilled communicator, but I’m as impressed with my own intellect as I am with yours or anyone else’s. No offense intended but that comes out to exactly not at all. It isn’t like I haven’t heard it all before too, ya know? And to the mind of the flesh, most of what I heard sounded like wisdom. But I learned that the wisdom of man and of the world is foolishness, utter and destructive. My best thinking caused me the biggest problems and led me right to death’s door on more than one occasion. I’ve been clinically dead several times.
There are two separate debates going on here, in keeping with the pattern that can be observed in every debate of this nature. One regards whether homosexuality is a sin, one regards the existence of God and the legitimacy of the bible. It would seem that one debate can not be had in absence of the other. Might that be because they go hand in hand? I think that’s the case. Whether by denying the sinfullness of homosexuality or by denying the existence of God altogether, the net result is the same. One can not believe in the God of the bible or the saviour of mankind and simultaneously deny the sinfullness of homosexuality (for long). By claiming a God and a saviour who approves of homosexuality, a false god is created, one that is therefore no god at all.
That in itself, the almost universally simultaneous presence of the no-sin and no-God camps in these debates, illustrates an alliance of spirit between those camps. They do battle side by side against those who speak scriptural truth. That’s no surprise, both camps operate under the influence of the same spirit, that which denies God.
Thank you for the conversation. Peace to you, peace to me, peace to all.
Im Muslim, and the Quran has a very similar opinion. Anal sex is considered unclean, and its a sin to do it even between a man and woman. As far as homosexuality is concerned, it is a sin too. Homosexual thoughts are not, but homosexual acts are.
With all respect, the Bible is kind of old. A lot of things have changed since those times. Women work, guys commit adultery too and actually get held accountable and there’s all this new technology.
well, how i see it is that these translations do. i wish i could read it in the original language, so i could really see.
@LSP1 - Well I’ve never seen a verse that say god is wrath and judgement. That said do you just ignore Matt 22: 36-40 ????
@mtngirlsouth - You could ask me a million times but casting scripture before hate is much like casting pearls before swine. You are in dire need of love and a relationship with Jesus. If you ended your crusade against those you consider inferior to yourself. If you let go of the blasphamy of taking God’s place in condemning everyone to hell. Then turn to Jesus and search for him then you might find what you desperatly need. But satan is a blinding force in this world.Pity.
@mtngirlsouth - Actually it is you and your forbearers that have taken those verses and added to scripture. You really don’t do any biblestudy do you? You onkly accept what your pastor tells you without question.
@musicmom60 - Why is there an AIDS epidemic? Not everyone practices good hygiene, it doesn’t mean the information isn’t available from secular sources. Clearly it’s possible to learn about how AIDS is transmitted and how to minimize your risk of infection without having to read the Bible. The highest rates of AIDS are in African countries with one as high as 26% due to non-homosexual sexual activities. The least risky sexual activities for contracting AIDS would be between two women. It could certainly be argued that multiple partners and unprotected sex are much more likely to put you at risk for infection rather than your sexual orientation. A lot of Christians aren’t supportive of monogamous homosexual relationships which have a low risk for AIDS as do monogamous heterosexual relationships they support. In fact many go to great lengths to discourage monogamous homosexual relationships by blocking their legal recognition with secular laws.
I haven’t heard of Christian organizations trying to enact more laws against heterosexuals who have sex with multiple partners which seems to also be against their Biblical beliefs.
In the U.S., the rate of diabetes is much greater than for AIDS. I don’t see a lot of people quoting the Bible with respect to how we can follow it to reduce the epidemic of diabetes.
@jazbajunoon - I agree
@cataclysmic_redemption - The first scripture is taken out of context. Jesus is telling people that they have no right to kill someone when they themselves have sinned.
Also, what I said was taken out of context. I said that the bible tells us to judge one ANOTHER… Not necessarily non-believers.
The bible tells christians multiple times to judge one another with righteous judgement.
Your personal understanding of what is meant here is not correct. Ultimate judgement is for God, but we, as christians CAN INDEED judge one another, just the same as you would see a friend on drugs and say “that’s not right” we can also judge other christians and say that what they are doing is wrong, or unbiblical. We are however commanded to try and remove our own sin before doing so.
@cataclysmic_redemption - http://www.hosanna.org.za/judging.htm something on judging
@jazbajunoon - Whether or not it’s possible to love someone without sex, it would be difficult to have a relationship without it. Frankly, I think if it were really something that evil, “don’t be gay” would’ve been one of the Ten Commandments. Besides, your argument only stands if you hold the bible to be the absolute law, which not everyone does.
@AOK4WAY - If you had explained to me in YOUR OWN WORDS an answer to the issue I had presented, this conversation could have gone in an entirely different direction. Your answer embodies the obedient repetition that I detest so much in religion, and for that, I’m sorry: I can’t have this conversation with you.
@LiquidityOfSelf - Peace to you then.
i still don’t understand why alot of people base their morality on a book written thousands of years ago. people back then believe shit like leeches can cure you. i’m tolerant of all religions but it just boggles the mind how some people think at times
@LiquidityOfSelf - My main point was that nothing has really changed. Even if the author was writing with an agenda (which, admittedly, they were) they were still able to perceive the same patterns that we see in modern society. I actually think that some self-interest is necessary to health, just there needs to be balance. There is humbleness, which, I would consider a good thing. It’s not putting yourself above anyone else, while not belittling yourself either. It’s being gracious and loving, and like every virtue, it has two vices. On the one end is narcissism, and on the other self-loathing. If a person tries to deny their wants and needs, they are apt to fall into self-loathing, which is just as debilitating as narcissism.
I think it’s funny that you should say that about anorexia, because I came to the same conclusion. You are right. I won’t say that you are not. Religion can be very, very dangerous, especially when approached with a wrong attitude. Religion is without a doubt, the cause of most wars, if not all, wars, in one sense or another. The thing though, is that I have never met anybody that is not religious to at least some degree. (I am not saying that they are Christian, but still religious) A lot of people “worship” science, or their grades, certain celebrities, a football team, alcohol, the sight of their own blood, the high they get from drugs, their friends, their family, thinness… You name it, and I can almost guarantee there is someone out there who worships it, wittingly or not.Now, I had a smooth transition into joy, but I haven’t slept well for the past few weeks, and I seem to lack the ability to store things in my memory long enough to type them, so for that I do apologize. I’m gathering that you define joy as a state of contentment, yes? Contentment with your body, your soul, your situation in life ect. (by all means correct me if I am mistaken.) I have no doubt whatsoever that you can find contentment without God. Obviously, as you have said already, you are living proof of this. I question is, will that contentment last when absolutely everything goes wrong? The early church father, Paul, wrote of joy in his letter to the Philippians. From jail. This would have been at the time when Nero was the emperor of Rome and being a Christian meant that you were going to be killed. He still had a sense of peace that could not be taken away from him, and an aura, for lack of a better word that drew people to him, and he shared his joy with them. That is what I see joy as. It’s very hard to define, I suppose. I will be totally honest with you, I have yet to receive it because I am too busy hating myself (which I have just realized completely contradicts my own views, so thank you for this) but it is a sense of love, hope, and peace that dwells within you and endures through all of your trials, even at the lowest points in your life.As I have said, I think that the human condition is fallen (which you disagree with, and you are totally entitled to that opinion.) This general condition of fallen-ness (yes, I am making up words now) causes things to go awry because the world is not perfect. Genes are not perfect. People are not perfect. Things just will go wrong. As for the exact causes of homosexuality, I do not know. As you have said, science has not given us an answer either. I do not know if it is in a person’s genetics, if it is caused because of the environment, or if it is a conscious choice. (though I highly doubt the last one. In order for love to exist there has to be a certain element of choice, but I’m not terribly sure the same thing applies to attraction.) All I know, is that whoever Murphy was, he was a genius. In this world, what CAN go wrong WILL go wrong. I also know that they are not left out in the cold, because as I have already said, everybody has at least one outstanding issue that they will struggle with their entire life, and no matter what that issue is God still loves them, and we still need to treat them with dignity, respect and love.
DEU 21:20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and
rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.”
21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge
the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
That passage is quite forgotten. I know many a drunkard, of all age, race, sexuality, etc.
If people take the homosexuality portions of the Bible literally, then why do we not take the portions about servants, not allowing women the right to divorce, allowing men to have multiple wives, or declaring women who’ve slept with more than one man a prostitute literally?
Duh… I guess that means the bible’s not very nice, eh?
Would God lie? Would God change His mind on this? God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, He does not change. Man changes, woman changes, that is what happened in the garden of Eden, and sin came into the world. All people now are sinners, meaning they are selfish, and they are going to do what they want, irregardless of what God says.
But there is hope for all people, they can change and live a new life, one that pleases God. And God is willing to forgive, cleanse, restore. His Son Jesus made it possible, by paying the penalty for our SINS. Thank You Jesus!!!!!!!
It is my desire that all people come to know the promise of eternal life and a new life that is theirs for the asking. But you must be willing to turn away from your old life of sin and let Jesus come in to your heart, and make the changes!! It is the greatest decision anyone can make, God is calling you to know Him TODAY!! God LOVES YOU!!
@JCCroom - Well I’ve never seen a verse that say god is wrath and judgement.
Have you read the bible? You’ve never seen one verse? It’s full of these verses. I’ll just give you a couple out of the hundreds that are in the bible.
John 3:36 – “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
Romans 1:32 – “Who knoweth the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death.”
That said do you just ignore Matt 22: 36-40 ????
What does that have to do with God’s wrath and judgment? Nothing!
@XoAsianBabioX - You can, and you don’t have to study Hebrew or Greek to do it! If you’re really interested, check out e-Sword. It’s free, and along with the free app, you can download over 40 different versions and translations, including the original language texts and a KJV with Strong’s numbers next to each word or phrase translated. There are also original language dictionaries and such, just put your mouse over a word and the info pops up! It rocks
http://www.e-Sword.net
Peace
@jenjen1010 - I take them all literally! What was sin then is sin now. It’s the penalty that’s been done away with – the stoning – not the sinfulness of the act. That law of retribution is done away with. Thanks for your visit btw! Peace
Being older I studied many religions and found wisdom that I took in or let go. The Bible is a kind of instructional guide telling us the right way to grow and we are to decide ‘for ourselves’ what we want to have in our reality. I don’t envy gay folks who are religious and have to justify their lifestyle and their place in the grand scheme of it all. It would be hard to read those verses and make it ok anyway. There are many roads leading to the same place.
@ShaeHeart - Just a quick reply to part of your comment — No, of course God does not let people into his kingdom simply because they detest homosexuality! Look at the last quote on the post, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Greedy people and all sexually immoral people are included among those who will not be part of God’s kingdom. That includes a whooole lot of Americans. But, the good news, the point of Christ dying and coming back to life, is in the following verse: “Some of you were once
like that [sexual immoral, greedy, etc.]. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made
right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by
the Spirit of our God” (1 Cor. 6:11).
@Winsa - Am I mistaken in you trying to tell me that Christians are allowed to judge non-Christians but not themselves because one of the most incorrectly translated and quoted out of context texts in history told you so?
Don’t tell me that my beliefs are inaccurate because I believe that your school of thought is wrong on a moral and intellectual basis until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes… that way, you’re a mile away from me and you have my shoes.
@classicallychelsea - The Golden Rule part is actually from Gill’s Expository. It’s not called The Golden Rule in The Bible.
@cataclysmic_redemption - Yes, but The Golden Rule part is actually from Gill’s Expository. It’s not called The Golden Rule in The Bible.
@Pastor_Rock - So Gill’s Expository stole the idea of such a “golden rule” from Jesus.
The Bible says that (not necessarily teaches that for people living now – there is a big difference). The Bible also says that inconsideration of young children for their parents is an offense punishable by stoning. The Old Testament says a lot of things that we don’t hold to be true today. The same with the New Testament – especially from St Paul who had definite problems with sexuality and even women.
Just because the Bible says something, doesn’t make it true for us today.
Morality is doing what is right regardless of what one is told. Religion is doing what one is told regardless of what is right.
From what the bible states and other major religions such as Islam and Judaism, it states that men should not have sexual relations with one another. Its i guess frowned upon by god, but do remember these religions also teaches that thou shalt not judge. So one should know if there religious, that homosexuality is wrong but don’t judge them for what they do and don’t act differently towards them because of what they do.
@LSP1 - OK so there is no verse that says that, you’re just twisting verses that really are in the bible to mean what you want them to mean. I can work with that. How do you reconcile your God with the fact that Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to love God and to love others? And even further, how do you reconcile you INTERPRETATION with the fact that John tells us tha God is love. Aren’t love and hate the opposite of each other?
Even further, if what you want to worship is a being that is basically a human with unfiltered power, then why not just worship one of the Greek gods, or make a god up? Why must you pervert what Jesus taught his followers? Why remake God in your own image?
And even if you were right (Though you’re not) about Jesus and our God, then what would be the difference between Christianity and all the other religions around the world. I mean where I was taught Holyness is what sets Christianity appart, from the others. But you’re basically saying we’re worshiping a powerful but flawed human.
Can you answer any of that?
@cataclysmic_redemption - Not, you’re totally mistaken, I said that we were allowed to and told to judge one ANOTHER.
As in, other christians. And btw, where you’ve been or haven’t been has nothing to do with whether something is true or not.
@LSP1 - Oh! and while it’s in my head, there is John 3: 16 for God so LOVED the world he sent his son.
@cataclysmic_redemption - http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_are_christians_judgmental.html - I give you another good article on the subject.
@JCCroom - Honestly, the things you’re saying don’t make any sense. You sound very confused. I didn’t twist any verses. I quoted them exactly as they were written. You are the one twisting them and not believing what they say. You have no problem when you read a verse that says God is love but then all of a sudden you can’t read anymore when there are hundreds of verses speaking of God’s wrath and judgment. This is really silly. Again, what does the 2 commandments have to do with God’s wrath and judgment? Nothing. Why can’t God be both a God of love and justice and judgment? We are capable of that, so why wouldn’t God be capable of that? You’re extremely limited in your theology.
Why must you pervert what Jesus taught his followers? Why remake God in your own image?
??? – All I can do is shake my head at that. I haven’t perverted anything. Jesus spoke more on hell than he did on heaven. Jesus called the Pharisees a bunch of snakes and vipers. Where is the love in that? Jesus made a whip and went into the temple and turned over the tables and drove the people out. Where was Jesus’ love and tolerance in that? The more you speak, the more ignorant you show yourself of the bible.
But you’re basically saying we’re worshiping a powerful but flawed human.
I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. I never said Jesus or God was flawed.
Oh! and while it’s in my head, there is John 3: 16 for God so LOVED the world he sent his son.
Again, that has nothing to do with what I said. Yes God loved the world, but he doesn’t force us to love him back.
Oh boy! here we go again! It also says that if you work on Sunday you should be stoned to death. Well I see the landscapers outside on somebody’s lawn WORKING ON A SUNDAY! I’ll stone them all!
@cataclysmic_redemption - No Silly, Gill just named it! LOL!
Yes, the texts quoted make that clear. But the verse following the passage from 1 Corinthians says, “And such were some of you.”
ALL sin is damning; and “all have sinned.” But God made provision to change that. Jesus died to make forgiveness from all sins possible, and that includes the sin of homosexual behavior.
Because of this, we can be changed, made new creatures, be transformed with renewed minds.
We weren’t created with homosexuality traits, its sin. It is a choice. People think that just becaue they check out people of the same sex that they are gay. Thy choose to act upon it, and thats what god doesnt liike
if it’s taken from “new american standard” bible as the pic shown, then it’s probably rewritten somewhat to catch up with the current world’s changes in lifestyle happenings. one can only wonder how different is the content of today’s bible in comparison to the original as translations may change from decades to centuries, and from its original language to english.
@typewriterss - yeah, you’re right, i too think it would be hard to have a totally sex-less relationship, you’re also right about my argument only holding meaning for people who hold the word of god seriously, which of course, a rarity. thats why when i see gays/lesbians i dont say anything to/about them, i believe in leaving it up to god, as in the end the will have his final judgement.
@jazbajunoon - That’s a good philosophy. Haha. I don’t think we can discuss this any more, because by this point I agree with you.
@typewriterss -
The Bible teaches that many things are wrong. It has been my experience that people are more unforgiving towards sins for which they don’t struggle and more forgiving of the sin that holds them in a vise.
“Don’t try to remove the splinter from your neighbor’s eye until you have removed the stick from your own eye.” — Jesus Christ
You do like the controversial don’t you Dan? To answer your question, yes. But it’s way more complicated then you’re giving it the appearance of being. If you read that passage in 1 Corinthians it’s making a point that ALL sin is equal and falls short of God’s glory. I see the biggest problem in the Church (universal) is that homosexuality is (for some reason or another) picked out of the list and somehow elevated as being a “bigger sin”. There is NO SUCH THING as a “bigger sin”. They are all the same. The biggest commandment we have from Jesus is to love. First God, then others as ourselves. That is a much harder thing to do then to point out people’s sin and condemn them. It’s not our place to judge the hearts of others. That is solely reserved for God. I have many gay and lesbian friends and I treat them no different from any of my other friends. They are wonderful, beautiful, intelligent, kind people, and they deserve love and respect, whether or not I agree with their lifestyle choices or not. Just like my friends who are alcoholics, drug addicts, sexually immoral, liars, cheaters, thieves, etc. deserve love and respect whether or not I agree with their lifestyle choices either. My friends know where I stand, and that’s ok, because they know that my opinions are not judgmental and will never be forcibly pushed upon them. Loving people never means condoning actions you don’t agree with, we tend to mistake that in society today for some reason. The fact that this is a divisive issue makes me sad. Christians should be a people who tow the line of never being “holier then thou”. Jesus certainly never was, he dined with those that would have been considered the “worst” sinners of the time. And he got ridiculed by the “religious elitists” of His day as well. I hope that people will dig a bit deeper then simply “yes or no” when thinking about this question.
I don’t think it’s homo love itself that is frowned upon, but the sexual acts that often accompany it. That doesn’t make homosexuality any bigger a sin than the others, it is just clearly stated as one among them.
but pedophilia is a-ok
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