February 17, 2011
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Sluts and Rape
A police officer is coming under fire for suggesting to students that women can “avoid sexual assault by not dressing like ‘sluts.’” Here is the link: Link
I am sure there are things a woman can wear that would increase the chance they get raped.
Do you think dressing like a slut gives a woman an increased chance of getting raped?
Comments (161)
no
Increased CHANCE? Yes. Dressing like a total whorebag is often taken as an invitation by the opposite sex.
When will people realize that rape is not about sex, its about power….. Dur duh dur
I honestly think rape is more of a control thing than a sexual thing. I do think women need to keep themselves from situations that can put them in that kind of danger… but i don’t think rape is about how a woman dresses.
Yes, unfortunately. It’s one thing to dress attractively, its totally different to dress provocatively….
I think that dressing slutty will increase a woman’s chance of being raped, yes. Especially in certain parts of town. There are men who have no self control, and will force himself on a woman if he sees her choice of dress as an invitation. I know a lot of people may misinterpret your question here, because rape is such a touchy subject. So I want to include the fact that no matter how she dresses, this in no way absolves the rapist from wrongdoing. I also would like to say there is a clear difference between being sexy with class and taste, and being just slutty. And it has to do with more than just clothing. It is a real shame that so many young girls these days do not see the distinction. And even worse that they are willing to settle for that kind of attention.
I don’t give a shit what she’s wearing, it is not an excuse for rape.
@UnconventionalButterfly - Exactly.
I suppose that some rapists will be more drawn to the scantily clad.
I’ve dressed like a slut for 22years and no one has popped my cherry. =(
I dont know but I figure a woman wearing a military uniform is less likely to get raped than a woman wearing a mini skirt and a tube top. Any way you look at it its still not right to say likely of getting raped due to clothes or anything else cause it adds to the false belief that anyone deserves to be raped or that the victim is at fault for any reason.
no..
Welll… since rape is about power, not lust, I’d say no… When will people figure that out?
@ShimmerBodyCream - Are you taking offers?
@SeeBeeWrite - Are you fulfilling dreams?
@UnconventionalButterfly - Exactly
@CrystallineFigurines - Agreed
@UnconventionalButterfly - Thank you…
Woo let’s blame the victim!
@UnconventionalButterfly - Exactly.
Let’s not be naive. Clothing that’s designed to gain male attention has a tendency to also gain unwanted male attention. But no matter what a woman is wearing, any man should be able to control himself and act like a decent human being. In any rape it is always the fault of the rapist, never the victim.
What a complete MORON.
No, rape is about CONTROL/POWER. Good Lord will people FINALLY start growing some freaking brains? It’s about damn time.
i mean, it can also be avoided if guys weren’t such douches. so.
Sexual assault is just that. The assault of an individual in a sexual nature. It’s not about how you dress, it’s about the control of the attacker over his or her victim. Does dressing or acting in certain ways increase the chaces of attack? Yes it INCREASES the chances. But it does not mean with out a shadow of a doubt the person is going to be attacked.
Dressing in provocative clothing and acting in promiscuous ways increases the chances only because there is usually a deeper issue at hand with the victim. Why are they dressed or acting in such a manner? That is not to say that a very secure person is not just as vulnerable to attack.
Although, I think the greater issue is how the police officer delivered a speech trying to encourage young women to take charge of their personal safety.
No. Unless you’re implying that men are so animalistic and out of control that they cannot help but rape a woman who shows skin?
Rape is about power. It’s insulting to the male gender to imply that rape happens because men just can’t control themselves.
No, *rape happens when rapists are present*, nothing more, nothing less.
@ShimmerBodyCream - I don’t have a penis, so I don’t know if that counts?
I understand the bit about control, but I do think that dressing slutty makes one appear easier to control as it suggests you don’t stand up for yourself/ are “easy”
As a non rapist, I am deeply offended by the suggestion that the actions of anyone other than myself, including those of an obvious whore, could possibly force me into becoming a rapist. What you wear or how you act has far less to do with whether or not you get raped than does actually encountering a rapist who is actively seeking someone to rape. Another example, if you were butt naked holding up a sign that literally says “RAPE ME PLEASE”, If you are in a church you are probably not going to get raped, if you are standing in the middle of a prison for rapist, you probably will get raped, but neither of those examples is definite as it still comes down to the personal moral decision of the rapist in the room whether or not to rape you, here and now, or ever. And just because someone is a rapist, so far as they have committed rape in past, does not mean that they ever will again, it is still a personal moral decision that can not be dictated by outside circumstance, or past events.
@SeeBeeWrite - I have just one jar left of a very special cream that wiil cure that. It’s expensive, but I might be persuaded to let it go at half price.
@alyssajunkie - How do you explain the alarmingly high instances of rape in the military, then?
@Saridactyl - because the rapists are wearing the uniforms too…..
Rape originates in the mentality of the rapist, not in the appearance of the raped. In times of social disorder, or aroused anger – like war – how many nuns get raped? Are they provokative?
I was privately thinking that this is the kind of numb-nuts thinking to be expected from Toronto police. Then I looked at the link, and, sure enough, it’s a Toronto cop.
@alyssajunkie - Oh yeah, because it has nothing to do with the fact that it’s not uncommon for power and control hungry individuals to join the military.
So, let me get this straight… an attractive woman wearing a tube top is more likely to get raped than an average woman dressed modestly, in your opinion?
Seeing others who say things like “Yes, the way a woman dresses does increase her chances of getting raped.” makes me wish it was possible to bitch slap people through a computer. What a woman wears has nothing to do with it and I think it’s sickening that so many people actually feel it does. Rape is about power. Period.
@Saridactyl - nope i was suggesting the fact that it is human nature to use the least amount effort to get results. a skirt and tube top would be less trouble than full on gear which reduces risk of getting caught and is closer to instant gratification. Most sex offenses are commited due to impulse. If you would please read the last half of my first comment i think you are misjudging my thoughts.
manner of clothing or makeup might just be a fashion statement, but they always make some sort of statement…. for example, red lipstick in many parts of South Asia is a symbol of prostitution. i don’t agree that being scantily clad has anything to do with getting raped (as rape can happen to any and every girl, even the fully-clothed ones), but i also think american girls are so naive sometimes about their sexual liberty.
A person who is willing to rape someone is a person who is willing to rape someone is going to do so regardless of dress. People have been raped wearing baggy workout clothes, training for marathon runs.
Yes, revealing clothing will bring more attention as well as more douchebag attempts at flirtation. But the willingness and the mindset that allows rape has to be there to begin with. There’s not a great deal of evidence that anything else puts it there.
More to the point, even if the dressing of revealing clothes would increase the probability of being raped, that by no means absolves any bit of the rapist of their responsibility. People should be able to act the way they will without fear of molestation.
@alyssajunkie - I read your post and I saw where you say that it doesn’t excuse being raped but I think that you’re completely missing the point. It’s not about instant gratification or women being easy. It’s the opposite. It’s about power and struggle.
@Saridactyl - i never said it wasn’t. look I never said easy I was refering to the ability of removing the clothing. A predator when with a choice will select an easier (not meaning sexually loose) prey.
@Saridactyl - military attire is like three layers thick sometimes. Combat boots? shit I’ve seen guys fall over tryin to take their own boots off.
@alyssajunkie - …..Rape isn’t about selecting “easier prey.” I think your concept of rape is skewed.
And also, what do combat boots being hard to take off have to do with anything? You know what, don’t answer that. I’m done here.
@Saridactyl - you are kinda a bitch huh? I mean are you seriously trying to trash me because I dont have the mind of a rapist? thats kinda fucked up.
I dont think so. Your buddies in the house are gonna propose a bill that if you are dressing like a slut, that is asking for it thus not rape. Oddly similar to muslim customs…ah, but you guys are practically brothers anyway. So…..dressing provactively practically eliminates rape altogether.
It’ll increase the amount of both wanted and unwanted attention. Yet most rape is about power and control. The rapist wants to teach an “out-of-line” woman a lesson she’ll never forget.
In my perfect world, a person is free to dress for comfort, with reasonable regard for the modesty of those around him or her. Anyone attempting to impose his own draconian idea of dress ought to be resisted, by both men and women.
It seems like rape is really more an act of control than it is a sex act. Rapists are more likely prey on women who look vulnerable and easy to control. Maybe dressing like a slut will invite more inappropriate comments, maybe even legitimate harassment, but I doubt it has anything to do with a woman’s chances of getting raped.
@JandJinJapan - I totally agree with you.
no means no. it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing.
Yes but no one can put their hands on someone unless the situation calls for it. No, someone dressing provacatively isn’t a reason to attack.
No woman should have to dress up thinking “will I get raped if I wear this?”. And real men dont rape. They have self control.
I hope that cop gets fired because that comment shows he cant be unbias & he’s probably chauvinistic. Women have gotten raped when they were covered from head to toe in clothes. Rape isnt about clothes, it’s a power issue.
Looks like everyone read tha same article “rape is about power and not sex”. That is true in probably the majority of cases, however, there are cases where the woman dresses and behaves in a provocative way in order to gain men’s attention and it draws the attention of some psychopath.
Maybe.
On second thought, yes. One of the things rapists are concerned with, according to the discovery channel, is the ease with which they can remove clothing. Much slut clothing is skimpy, at best, leather aside, so the short answer would be yes but not for the reasons most people think.
This statement that a womans attire can increase their chance of being raped is something out of the dark ages. Rape is a power issue. If it was sex…there is enough of that free on the streets. I do think some women dress to invite sex but that is not the same as rape.
@alyssajunkie - Awe, thank you. I’ve never been called a bitch before.
Nah. Rapists don’t care about that stuff. I don’t know how they choose their victims, but sexual attraction isn’t it.
Anywhere where guns are illegal is a bad place to live.
@SoapAndShampoo - Eh, you can’t simplify it so much. They are all different. like cats
If one woman is dressed in clothing that is more “accessible” such as a skirt, then she would be more likely to be a target to some rapists than a woman in jeans. Just saying.
Nope. If a girl can walk around in public dressed like a slut, it is safe to assume that she is to a certain extent confident with showing off her body. Rapists tend to go after people who look like they are self-conscious and won’t be able to defend themselves.
@WordsandThoughts - @mtngirlsouth - @radicalsounds - @Brilliant_Innocence -
I will instruct you to watch the movie “The Accused” (1988 film) which tackles this very issue, but to sum it up, a slutty/trashy woman got gang raped, and the guys who did it, ended up in jail for quite the amount of time.
Even if she’s a “slut”, when she says no, that’s when it’s rape. (Unless she has the “rape” fetish and wants you to continue even when she’s saying no, but that’s a whole nother story.)
@Coffee_Kaioken - Was she dressed like a whore?
“Increased chance”? That makes rape sound desirable — I hope you didn’t mean that!
@WordsandThoughts - She was both dressed like one and acting like one, which definitely made her case harder to win, but she won.
@radicalsounds - This. Exactly this.
Well, we learn in school that the way your dressed does not matter at all. You could be in lingerie or dressed like a nun. If someone has control issues and needs to express those issues on your body, it doesn’t matter what you look like. We even had a psychologist come to us and explain that.
Hmm, I think it was a certain comedian, Dave Chapelle who once said, “Dressing like a whore doesn’t make you a whore, but it’s a whore’s uniform.” And then he said something about a man dressed as a police officer may not BE a police officer but is certainly wearing the uniform.
So, it doesn’t mean sluts should get raped, but I am willing to wager the likelihood is probably higher if you’re wearing a slut’s uniform. Just sayin’.
no.
it might be taken wrong. but honestly, most cases, people were wearing normal clothes. people who dress less tastefully very well could’ve gotten raped. or else they might just cry wolf over a regretful night. no one will know, but the person. i say just them because the other/others might’ve been too drunk or most likely will lie about it–
but it depends on the people involved i suppose.
Actually rapists are more likely to rape people who are not confident with their bodies, as they are less likely to report being raped. So yes, your clothing choice does make you more at risk for being raped, but not for dressing provocatively; for dressing more conservatively.
This is a link to a blog, but there are hyperlinks within the blog that take you to the study. I would also recommend doing a google scholar search on David Lisak’s work on rapists; he worked with another psychologist last name of Miller to do a lot of his work. If you have access to scholarly databases such as psychinfo or psycharticles, I would highly recommend you research them.
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=E7651AA154E048257D8CCE5191664C20?diaryId=14082
And to answer a question from a previous post of yours, yes. You’re a dick.
bahahaha a bunch of ppl i know go there (though not to Osgoode, they’re in their undegrad)…the university is located in a sketch part of town as it is, and from what my friends said, a lot of ppl are upset about the comment, but quite a few ppl agree with it as well…especially given the area of town they’re in
If we’re talking a stranger rape – probably not. I’m assuming the monster was out hunting for a victim before he ever saw his particular victim and what she was wearing.
I do want to say that I think it could raise the chances of date rape. While most men aren’t animalistic and most men are able to take no for an answer – I will say that those who are prone to committing date rape would probably be more likely to if a girl was dressed provocatively and yet refusing to “give it up.”
I don’t know any rapists nor do I understand their thinking so who can know for sure. Since every person is different, I’m sure rapists’ reasons are different to a slight degree.
@Coffee_Kaioken - I fully agree. No always means no. But there is also the fact of body language, and what a woman can say with how she presents herself. No, I do not think that a woman who dresses “slutty” deserves to be raped. But I also think that there is the element of common sense. And a woman should not say something with her choice of dress that she really doesn’t mean.
Has anyone considered that dressing like a slut sends a signal not necessarily of promiscuity, but of defenselessness? If the act is about control and domination, I can’t help but think that an alluring target would be someone easily controlled or dominated. Frankly, wearing skimpy dresses and short skirts doesn’t send a message of power or resistance – most likely, the opposite. Playing towards feminine features is generally seen in most aspects of Western society to be a play towards a voluntary sort of helplessness – a need for a man to step in and provide the brawn. (We could easily argue that feminism should be targeting this misconception. But, that’s a different argument for a different day.) This is certainly far from a guaranteed formula, but it only seems reasonable that sending out a high-intensity message of femininity, i.e. dressing like a slut, would be a reasonable recipe for disaster. Just a thought.
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I don’t believe in blaming the victim, and I believe fully in the right for a woman to wear what she wants without people assuming she wants to have sex. And rape can’t be blamed on a woman’s clothing. If there’s ever any question whether or not the girl is okay with it, keep it in your pants, guys.
However, I also realize that people will judge other people. Ignoring the invitation to rape thing, it’s hard to assume that a girl wears revealing clothes and doesn’t want attention. Even if they don’t want to admit that they want attention, or are on a girl’s night out. I mean, if you don’t want attention, then you wouldn’t try, right?
I don’t think the way you dress has anything to do with being raped. I was raped, and I dress far from a slut. If you dress that way, guys just think you are easy, and most likely you are. You can’t rape the willing.
Rapists look for an easy target. Slutty clothing is easy to remove. Therefore, yes.
I saw interviews of men convicted of forcible rape (I think on strangers). The rapists looked for clothing that could be easily cut, ripped or pulled off of the girl, and looser clothes are easier.
It seemed that it wasn’t an issue about slutty-ness but rather, the
logistics of raping someone. You need to get her pants off. Would a
skirt make it easier for him? Might he be looking for that? Sure. But
not because it’s slutty. Sweatpants are easy to yank off too.
They also looked for someone whom they could over-power, someone who wouldn’t fight back, who wasn’t really paying attention to her surroundings and was wearing easily removable clothing.
Pay attention to your surroundings. Know that you’re willing to defend yourself. It’s not the victim’s fault.
This is fucking disgusting. A woman should be able to dress however she wants without worrying about being sexually assaulted or raped. Rape is about power, not about sex. This makes me so fucking upset. It is NOT a womans fault if she gets raped, that is not a defense.
You’re disgusting for even thinking such a thing.
This is a myth, the whole idea that dressing provocatively increases chance of sexual assault (find me a study that says otherwise). It wrongfully places the blame on the woman for one, rather than the man who can not control himself, and should be put away in prison. Ever heard of the concept of personal responsibility? When it comes to people killing with guns, conservatives always say “Oh, its the killers fault”. When it comes to women-related issues though, its always the woman’s fault, rather than the perpetrator. Tad bit of a contradiction there. Anyway, you got countries where the burqa is popular / enforced, women are treated as inferior, and therefore are treated like shit even if they are extremely modestly dressed. Like is said, its a power thing.
i think it may be plausible that the one’s who dress in such a way are avoided., at least the picture up top. It makes sense that it would be about power. Maybe, it’s the people who dress this way that put other women in danger for power situations. Cause, if it’s about power, then a person who would do such a thing would look for someone that doesn’t look like they’re so willing to give themselves away. but it’s 3 am.., and i need to sleep.., so my hypothesis can be discounted.
There is no pattern for rape. It has happened to all kind of women in all kind of places. Of course there are still ways of prevention, dressing might be a certain part of it.
if a rapist wants to rape….he will rape.
dude is right, I don’t know why he’d apologize.
@icapillas - Thank you!
And I’ll further say that girls and women in Japan tend to dress more and more provocatively every year, especially in the warmer months. Japan also has a serious problem with male gropers on trains insomuch Japan railway and subway companies have been forced to designate women-only cars. Male groping and sexual assault are also on the rise in Japan. Can it be just mere coincidence that this problem is growing while women’s fashion sense and clothing styles are becoming more and more revealing?
From what I know about rape it has little to do with anything sexual. It’s about power and manipulation. All the girls I’ve ever met that were raped were not what you would call slutty. They were quiet, sometimes submissive and dressed very normally(t shirt, sweats etc). Rapists are drawn to a certain type of person. And it’s not going to be the confident, slutty girl. They know they will put up more of a fight or catch onto what they’re trying to do more quickly.
There are different kinds of rape, I believe that most cases of rape are power orientated, but let us not forget there is a sexual element. Yes, I do believe a woman can reduce her risk of being a target, but I don’t believe she should have to. It is the blame of the rapist and no one else.
@mtngirlsouth - I think this was exactly his point. Then again, a lot of people make this point and then get the masses of people going crazy and misinterpreting that women who dress provocatively deserve to get raped. That is absolutely not true. However, I also believe that dressing provocatively increases the chances of getting raped. It gets you noticed right?
If a guy is bent on rape, nothing a woman wears will stop him. But, by wearing barely-there clothes, it does seem like it would be an easier task for a rapist, and also draw more attention to the victim, making them more of a target. So yes, I think it can increase the chances of being raped, but probably not in the way that the cop meant.
@SeeBeeWrite - @ShimmerBodyCream - hahahahahaha……. Now now Ladies,,, lets have some hormonal control please. There are some people on this site who might lose it!
The answer is different for date rapers and violent rape offenders
No doubt that the incidence of “date rape” increases with the perceived sexiness of the victim, including her manner of dress. Many date rapers convince themselves that the woman “wants it.” The way she acts or dresses is an invitation for sex, to these men, regardless of what the victim says.
Regarding Violent Rape offenders, it is not typically the way a person is dressed or the way they look, but their availability and vulnerability. Depending on a rapist, the best victim might by an elderly woman walking down a quiet street, a child who has wandered from its parent, or a woman - bundled up with hat, scarf and gloves — fumbling with the keys to her ground floor apartment while no one is around.
After 150 years or more of women protesting, marching, writing, educating, here comes the same old question! BUT I am so so proud of our Xangans!!! They get it! Thank you for understanding that it isn’t about what a woman wears. It even isn’t about women. It’s about the men who rape us. Even the Xangan men know that and a special thanks to all of you who spoke up. Here’s a BIG mini for all of us.
How about asking a question like “Does pornography lead to rape?” next time.
I heard someone say once that the only thing a woman can do to avoid being raped is never be in the same room as a rapist.
The idea that “slutty” clothes increase a woman’s chance of being raped is false because it assumes that rape is someone understandable, that its motivations are based solely in a natural sex drive. It’s not. Rape is about sex, of course, but it’s also about power. Rapists don’t just rape slutty women. The rape elderly women, disabled women, conservative women, and “ugly” women. They rape children and men. What makes a rapist a rapist isn’t their particular sexual desires, it’s the fact that they rape.
Um… if it was about be attractive… why is it that 80% of the people who get raped, are actually not wearing anything remotely attractive? and no its about power and lust all at once. Atleast thats my assessment.
Although, dressing like slut, just calls for people to prey on them being ‘easy’ don’t need to rape them.
@UnconventionalButterfly - EXACTLY!!
I see how many are get flustered and disgusted by Dan’s very question, but it is not so black and white, given the actual issue of a police officer coming under fire for his advice to students.
Let’s change the scenario slightly. Think about a police officer who goes to a school to discuss avoidance of being pick-pocketed is going to say such things as “avoid streets where no one else is walking,” ”hold on to your pocketbook, and keep it to your side, so that you avoid swinging it from your wrist,” and “walk with authority, looking forward and alert, rather than day dreaming.”
Of course, if a person is pick-pocketed, it is the criminal’s fault. But there are tactics to avoid being an “easy target.” No one would object to the officer’s lecture in the above case.
Because the scenario Dan brings up was not pick-pocketing, but rape (and I believe he was talking about date rape), rather than other crimes, the suggestions become offensive. Yes, a raper is the criminal, the woman is the victim — in any kinds of rape — but there are ways to avoid it, which many of us, including myself, do not follow and then we want to take zero responsibility.
I remember a post a while back, where a girl cried “rape” even though she had taken off all her clothing with her boyfriend and had done everything else, willingly, without balking, and then wanted to prosecute for rape when he went the extra inch so to speak. I think that was disgusting — to ruin a boys life because she “changed her mind at the last second.” In the post, I think the cop was just trying to do his best to cover all the issues in a really difficult topic.
well at least this has shed some light on the current training of the Toronto police force and hopefully they can update their poor and outdated training.
Oh please. There are women who don’t dress “slutty” who end up getting rape. And what about young teenage girls, and even girls younger than that…are they victims of rape because they dress slutty? I don’t think so. Rape is about power. Not about sex.
I can’t see how; I would think that would ward-off attacks, looking like they’d give it away.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Not even Anh?
YAY for Toronto news to make it on your featured post lmao.
So let’s say there was a jeweler’s shop. The most expensive ring they had was a beautiful diamond on a golden ring. It was the ring that grooms wished they could buy their brides, the ring that brides wished they could wear on their fingers, but they would settle for lesser decorations because, anyway, with a ring that gorgeous wouldn’t they look a bit pathetic with their plain faces and limp hair?
And although many people wanted to buy this piece of fine jewelry–in fact, probably everyone who saw it wanted it– instead of hiding it, the manager put it on display in small glass box that was locked with a key. The jeweler wanted everyone to see it–he felt proud of his handiwork, proud of this beauty that he himself had made. At the same time, he was watching the customers as they browsed along. He examined each couple closely. He was looking for something. And finally, after countless customers over countless days had walked in and out of his store, he saw it.
There was a young couple, both of them rather small and frail looking, but he saw in their eyes a glimmer that shone just as bright as the diamond on the ring shone. They weren’t gorgeous, exactly, but they had a beauty that somehow surpassed the beauty of the ring, which they were now gazing at in silence. The jeweler walked up to them.
“Looking for a ring?” he asked.
The couple looked embarassed for a moment.
“Yes,” said the woman, “but we were just looking at this one. We could never afford it, but it is quite beautiful. Did you make it?”
“I did,” said the jeweler. “And I made it in hopes that the woman who would wear it would have a love for her groom that shone just as brightly as the diamond on that ring.”
The jeweler got out his key and began to unlock the box.
“And,” he said, looking at the groom, “in hopes that the groom who gave it to the bride would love her in the same way.”
He put the ring in the groom’s hand.
“And, above all, that the love the two shared would last until the end of their days. It would have broken my heart to see this ring be left behind as a reminder of divorce when it was made for such a beautiful thing. You see, I couldn’t have given it to just anybody. But I believe in you two. I can see that you have something different. I can trust that you won’t be leaving each other. This ring was made for you.”
And with a smile, he picked up the display case and left to put it away.
In the same way, a woman who is beautiful may put her sexuality on display because she’s proud of it–it’s her own. Not every woman is the same, but some want everyone to see their beauty. And, like the jeweler, they are watching carefully, some more carefully than others, but they are watching. You see, they can’t just give it to anybody. It’s true that some women may give it to more than one person, maybe several, but each of these people were chosen to be given this beautiful gift. She puts it on display knowing that everyone who sees it will want it, but it’s her gift to give. It may just be behind a small glass box but she has the key in her pocket. When she sees someone she believes in–someone she trusts, only then will she take out the key and unlock the box.
But as soon as someone breaks the glass people accuse her. They say, why glass? Why didn’t you put the box under your bed where no one would find it? Why weren’t you watching; why didn’t you expect this to happen? Why didn’t you put it in a plain old box so that no one could see it; so no one would even know it was there?
But my question is, if someone broke the glass of the jeweler’s box and stole that beautiful handcrafted diamon ring–the ring that he so wished would end up somewhere as lovely as he had made it, who would ask these questions? Who would say, “Why didn’t you expect this to happen?” Who would ask, “Why glass?” Who would say that he should have put it in a plain old box so that no one could see it; so no one would even know it was there?
I think that women who dress more provacatively might have more men looking and hitting on them therefore increasing their chances that one of those men would take their agressiveness to the next level.
I do not believe that a women should have to dress any which way to protect herself. Noone should be attacked period for what they wear. That is self expression and if a woman feels fabulous in a mini skirt and a crop top that does not mean that she is inviting anyone to violate her body in any way.
Rape is about power – but I also do believe that alot of men that desire that power have been put down by women, so feeling that power from someone extremely attractive in their view would be a bigger boost then the girl that is wearing a hoodie and more to herself. Rapist would feel more powerful taking down the girl that is the life of the party. I am not saying this for everyone, and especially not for a rapist that would be more on the intelligent side.
I was just thinking about a grilled cheese sandwich. It would be a larger sandwich, larger than most humans are capable of eating in a single session. It would be an architectural menu item–food that must be carefully constructed by professionals and then admired for its aesthetic value. No point in overlooking the physical properties of the mundane. I have always enjoyed mayonaisse, but what few people know is that if you smear mayonaisse on a east-facing window and permit it to dry, in two years the “mayonaissed” surface of the window will crack and discolor thereupon producing a multi-shaped and multi-hued pattern not unlike stained glass. Isn’t that wonderful? If you’re not hungry for lunch, make art out of it,.
@alyssajunkie - not when you’re in the field. Many women in the military get raped out in the field, which is one of the main reasons women can’t be infantry.
@UnconventionalButterfly - @BeauteeQueen55 - @BloodxRedxBraceletx - @Hinase - @ange_lae - @radicalsounds - and @wintersfamily - As an instructor and adviser on safety I disagree on the strongest terms. At no point in this officer’s presentation is it suggested that the officer insinuated that women who dress “slutty” (Whatever his definition of slutty may be) deserve to get rapped. Best I can tell he pointed out that women who dress in certain fashions, and live risky lifestyles are at greater risk. And there are statistics to back that up. A simple Google search can confirm.
To claim that what he says is equivalent to they deserve to get rapped or rape is about sex is like pointing out that women who married heavy drinkers deserve to get hit. It’s simply not the case, but a fact of life that the decisions you make WILL effect your quality of life. And you are doing a disservice to any young girls reading your comments by claiming they can go out and put themselves at unnecessary risk, without having to worry about the consequences.
After all, when a thug targets them out, what good is it going to do her to tell him: “Hey! I don’t deserve to get raped.”????
That’s a tough question, IMO. Rape seems to be more of a control thing, rather than a “I’m horny and you look easy in your slutty clothes” thing. I can see the possibility maybe if your in a crowded bar, you flirt with a guy all night or lead him on, and then when he tries you say no and then he gets pissed and rapes you….but then again, it’s a control thing at that point. Just my opinion. I have never been raped, and I don’t know of anybody personally that has. But from stories I have heard, read, etc. it seems to be a control thing.
@shesbackforless - Great reply! Kudos!!
@pika_whoosh - I actually looked it up, and it doesn’t seem to have any affect. But I did a blog about it here:
http://mtngirlsouth.xanga.com/741570468/sluts-rape-and-presentation/
@nidan - You’re most likely to get raped by someone who knows you. It does NOT have anything to do with the way you dress. As another commenter pointed out – military women are far more likely to get raped than the average woman, even if she’s wearing a tube top and mini skirt. Should women not join the military? The point is, no matter who is raping you, what you wear does NOT determine whether or not you will get raped. Being around drugs and alcohol and making risky lifestyle decisions does indeed increase the likelihood you’ll get raped. But you can be wasted out of your mind in jeans and a hoodie and still get raped. 1 in 6 women will be raped – according to REPORTED rapes, so that number is absolutely higher. Are you implying all those women just dressed too slutty? No. All those women did different things on different days in different places, but happened to end up in the presence of a rapist. Interviews with actual, convicted rapists supports the idea that clothing does not determine the victim, but I would love to see actual, credible statistics that show that dressing a certain way gets you raped. Risky lifestyle? Sure, but there’s no dress code for that.
@radicalsounds - No it’s children who are most likely to be molested by someone who knows them. I would challenge you to find a credible statistic showing the same for rape, because every rape I have had personal experience with was commited by a common thug that the victim did not know. Also each rape was easily preventable by taking evien the simplest safety precautions.
Again I’m not saying these victims deserved to be raped, that’s just the counter point of weak minds who don’t want to think. I’m saying that when you take responsibility for your own safety, you are in less danger. By telling anyone the opposite you are aiding the thugs who would injure them.
@radicalsounds - PS: According to my father (A military officer) the stats on female rape victims is skewed. It assumes the same percentage of women in the military as in general population, and that is simply not true. There is a far smaller percentage of women in the military.
In fact studies show you’re less likely to be raped if you’re in the millitary due to the fact that you are trained in combat and basic safety.
I doubt it. I think it’s more where you are when and with who that increases your chances. Maybe the way you’re dressed has something to do with it in some situations, but it’s more where you are that changes your chances. If you’re wearing a turtleneck and baggy jeans and hanging out in a dark alley in the wrong part of town, you probably have a greater chance of getting raped than if you’re wearing a bikini in your back yard hanging out with a few close friends. I think @radicalsounds makes a good point.
@EccentricSiren - It’s not “more” of anything. it’s all factors working equally. Don’t just take my word for it, ask anyone who teaches basic safety. In fact I encourage you to seek out experts on the matter.
@EccentricSiren - Let me explain using your own example. your two women are going down parallel yet equally secluded alleys and a thug see’s them. Which do you think is the one he’s going to target?
@nidan - http://www.rainn.org/statistics – 73% of rape victims know their assailants. @nidan - I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but the point remains that various sources claim that 30 to 40 percent of women in the military are raped during duty, and in a House panel investigating military sexual assault, this statement was made: “Women serving in the U.S. military today are more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire in Iraq.” If you can explain that away, please do. Again, I would love to see studies claiming otherwise – I would be more than willing to believe so, but have never found the statistics you’re claiming, anywhere.
They dress like sluts because they WANT people to want and look at them, so yes.. Maybe they shouldnt dress outragiously slutty.. Just saying
@radicalsounds - To begin with even the New York Times put’s the maximum figure at 27% (link) so you saying 30% to 40% is an exageration to say the least. That said even one rape in the military is too many. that should be understood at the outset. (But I wouldn’t want the New York Times dictating military policy either, that’s a whole other post.)
That said I’ll have to contact Dad and get the stats you ask for, so I’ll message you in a few days with that. Thank you for the link you shared with me. I’m still skeptical based on personal experience but I’ll at least give you the respect of researching the information you provided.
I did however give two explanations for the the stats. You just ignored it. The percentages assume the same percentage of women in both populations. There is in fact a LOT fewer women in the military than in the general population. So every time one rape occurs it naturaly takes a higher percentage. This is basic math. Also women are more likely to be raped than killed in combat simply because women are NOT REGULARLY ALLOWED IN COMBAT. If they were you would see those numbers change dramatically.
This is basic statistics. And again goes back to my argument about consequences of life choices which was the argument that no one touched so far. Instead it’s been all red herrings about millitary rape statistics and how many women knew their victim. Again I implore you to seek out someone who teaches basic safety, and learn about it. You’ll find that most of the worlds crimes (Including rape) are quite preventable if you take responsibility for your own safety.
@UnconventionalButterfly - When they start watching reruns of Law and Order: SVU
@ncxcorexkid - Lmao!!!!
@nidan - Where in the world did i say that its deserved? I just pointed out that Rape isn’t about sex, its about power….learn to read buddy.
@UnconventionalButterfly - And I’m trying to explain that whether rape is about power or sex, it doesn’t make a difference to the fact that when you take sensible precautions, you are less likely to be assaulted. (Rape or otherwise.)
Is this the point where you simply have no argument so you put words in my mouth instead? Because if it is, our discussion is effectively over.
@nidan - There are no “precautions” you can take. You can’t help it if you get raped or not, it just happens. there are some things in this world that you can’t prevent. You don’t need to be so rude, maybe you need to take a nap.
I believe the decision to rape is in the mind of the rapist, it has nothing to do with the way someone is dressed, it’s a fact that women who are decently dressed has been rape victims also, but I believe if you want to be respected you must dress modestly. The way you dress says a lot about you.
@UnconventionalButterfly - You’re wrong, I teach people every day how to live their lives with more safety. While it’s true you can’t prevent every bad thing from a happening, with a common sense aproach, safety is a very controlable thing. You are doing a disservice to people by ignorantly stating otherwise, and you are aiding the thugs out there that look to people like you to make their bile easier to spread.
A nap? What are you, in third grade?
I am 100% certain that I agree with this cop. In fact, I’ve written about this, before.
@UnconventionalButterfly - Wrong, also. I have a blog about it called, “Legalize Rape.” It’s not about power, for me.
I think it does ”increase” the chance.
@nidan - Ok, if safety is a very controllable thing then how can a girl whose my hight, 5’4, defend herself from a group of big men who want to rape her? It can happen anywhere at any time. Even If you know self defense, theres nothing that 5’4 girls can do. I’m not aiding or justifying anything, I’m speaking about what actually happens. You can’t live your life in fear and paranoia. You can’t prevent every bad thing from happening. Yeah, you can try to be as safe as you can but you’re going to drive yourself crazy if you go overboard. Thats life. Get over it.
Oh, and no i’m not in third grade. I just happen to think sleep is fucking awesome and can make people feel better
Dressing like you are “hot to trot”…just might send the message to certain “mentally low functioning” individuals that a girl wanted sex, BUT even such a message is NO excuse for rape.
There was nothing wrong with what that officer said, females that want sexual attention dress in revealing clothing, look at the girls around you, the ones that WANT to have sex are putting themselves out there, girls that don’t want that kind of attention don’t dress that way.
I don’t always feel sorry for rape victims because they almost always put themselves in that situtation. I read a story about a woman that got raped while running by herself at night, another story happened in my local movie theater. The victim was a 10-year-old girl that was waiting for her dad by herself; it was daylight, but still. I don’t believe it’s about control or power. If it was they could just hit or steal something from her, that’s control or power.
Cops are so funny!!
It does give an increased chance.. but women are not raped by choice unless they are walking down the alley alone saying “Rape me!”
As a rape victim NO. Rape is about power and breaking the victim down.
@UnconventionalButterfly - To begin with rape does not happen “anywhere at any time” it happens at oportunistic moments when the perp feels they can get away with it. And I know of a roughly 5’0 extremely dainey in Jacksonville Florida who was nearly mugged, but instead broke her attacker’s arm. It certainly speaks volumes that when I talk about common sense and you somehow read “fear and paranoia” that suggests a lot about your motivations! But you are again wrong. Women can and do live enlightened lives without “driveing themsevesl crazy” as you put it. In fact living the lifestyle I’m speaking about has the opposite effect. It creates calmness and serenity. A oneness with your envirnment.
To answer your question of how to fight off such a group of men… Well something like that requires years of training. (And there is certainly something to be said about owning mace or a tazer) But more importantly (and not to put too fine a point on it; but its the message you are either unwilling or unable to comprehend) a woman trained in safety is not likely to find herself in such a situation. She would notice if she were being followed and knows how to make herself a less tempting target. More to the point she would have a plan to avoid a dangerous situation from the go.
Last year the father of one of my students got it in his head he was going to kidnap his daughter and take her back to his parents home in France. He got one of his friends to try and grab her after school. (They got this idea from a really bad movie) All of 13 years old, tazered the Hell out of this jerk. So don’t try to tell me there is anyone who can’t defend themselves. Particularly not in this day and age. What you are saying here is a disservice to women everywhere.
I agree with you about sleep, but I also think awareness is a great thing, and severely unappreciated in our culture.
yup
i feel that dressing slutty can grab someone’s attention but overall its about power.
@theflowerstem - Are you freaking serious? Some girls, who dress scantily clad, may want attention, but most certainly not RAPE. They’re not ASKING to be raped, AT ALL. Duh.
And really, the woman was running at night. She’s not allowed to do that? And you seriously don’t feel sorry for a 10 year old girl who was raped by a sick low life? So, unless a woman/girl has a constant buddy around her, you don’t feel sorry for her, for being raped, because she put herself in a position to be taken advantage of by a sick fuck?
Wow, some people are really low and disgusting.
@bbanmen420 - No one dresses in a way to say, hey come rape me. That’s just STUPID. Attention is one thing. RAPE IS ANOTHER. Good lord! No one is ever asking to be raped.
Seriously… it really upsets me that people can be THIS ignorant.
@nidan - So you’re saying its her fault that she gets raped if she didn’t take the right “safety precautions”? Tisk tisk….. I feel bad for your ignorance….go away now please
@Brilliant_Innocence - Of course I’m serious, common sense would tell you not go out by yourself at night, common snese would tell you not to leave you 10 year old child in the hall of an empty movie theatre for a second. Compared to some of the other people, it seems like my parents raised me with more common sense, esp. about saftey. There is saftey in numbers and there is saftey about doing things during daylight hours with lots of people around. Having common sense about aftey will keep you out of many preventable situtations.
Oh and no, no one wants to get raped with they wear a revealing outfit, but how is that man supposed to know that? That’s why people tell you to be careful of the message you send out, or maybe that was just my parents.
@UnconventionalButterfly -
In other words you’re so embarrassed that a 13 year old girl could do what you’re saying women can not do, and since you have no counter argument, so you’re only option left is to launch an ab homenem attack.
It’s not you I feel sorry for. You’re just an uneducated internet troll that really needs enlightenment. The people I feel sorry for are any young girls who may be reading your words, believing your bullshit, and giving up their dreams and aspirations. People like you have been telling them they can’t, can’t, can’t for centuries. It was no more true then, than it is now. Common street thugs, and wealthy sexist corporate CEO’s love enablers like you.
I’m just fine here, thanks. You can go away. Go back to the hole you crawled out of.
@nidan - Nice to know that if somebody doesn’t agree with you,they’re a troll…..great common sense there buddy. Have a nice day.
90% of the commenters are thinking that this is random-attack rape, when I think it refers more to a date-rape type situation.
Let’s say the jersey shore girls go out to the bar and get totally wasted, to the point of not remembering anything the next day… then they realize that someone had sex with them but they didn’t particularly intend on having sex with said person… is that rape? I’d say that in that situation, when you dress like a skank and you act like a skank, you’re going to give off that impression. A lot of girls who get “raped” in said situation, just looking back on it themselves, regret that they would ever fuck some dude like that when they were out of their minds drunk.
Philadelphia is one of the worst crime cities, but I have never been attacked or even followed because I know my surroundings, wear proper clothing, don’t dress or act like a skank… it’s fucking simple. Then again, I am 5′ and a ferocious straight-edge girl, I guess that can be intimidating. Don’t use substances to an extreme extent, have some reliable friends, and don’t be a whore, you won’t get date-raped
@UnconventionalButterfly - FYI, child: The reason I called you a troll has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me. (In fact you haven’t even disagreed with me in the past 8 hours, you thrown a tantrum instead.) People disagree with me all the time on Xanga, sometimes they’re right sometimes they’re wrong.
I call you a troll because you exhibit troll like behavior without rebutting (Or even acknowledging) the points I’ve already put out, nor adding new points of your own. (Save for that insane comment that teaching women self-defense amounts to blaming rape victims for their assault.)
Still siting out there are the fact that a 13 year old girl can do what you say is impossible for a grown woman to do. The math statistics about differences in populations of women in the military versus general population, and how comparing the two is fallacy. Not to mention the matter of course that rape estimates would exceed combat deaths for a group of people who aren’t regularly in combat. (And those are just the outstanding points I could remember off the top of my head. I’ll research and add more if you keep up your childish banter.)
Indeed your last two comments didn’t even pretend to try and have an adult conversation. You simply called names. You now simply want the last word, and you’re frustrated that I wont let you have it. But just you keep playing Hotel Royal. I’ll be on and off the internet all week. Your mommy and Daddy are going to kick you off sooner or later.
@starcrossedloversdivine - Thank you!
@nidan - ….. and calling me a child and a troll isn’t calling me names? Congratulations, you’re now a hypocrite .. >.
FYI: I NEVER said it was impossible. I never said that girls shouldn’t defend themselves, I never said that you shouldn’t be safe. You implied it. What I said and have been saying, was that there are some situations that you can’t help. I gave you a situation that you totally ignored (the one about the girl being gang raped by a bunch of big guys). In that situation no, the girl won’t win because she is out numbered and out sized. GREAT, that girl defended herself. Thats fucking awesome. But, TRUTH is buddy, like i’ve said a million times, there are situations in this world that you CAN’T prevent. YES, its sucky/horrible/ ect ect but thats life. Get. the. fuck. over. it. already.
Well rapists probably pick on the scantily clad women because they are clearly not hiding mace in their pockets anywhere…
but seriously I think criticizing what the woman is wearing is trying to place the blame on her. “If she wasn’t wearing that… she wouldn’t have gotten raped.” But women are the victims here. And I don’t think her clothes are “asking” for it either.
@UnconventionalButterfly -
I’m goingto tell you the same thing I tell Trevor: If you want to be treated as an adult then you need to act like an adult. As long as you act like an adolescent people will treat you like an adolescent. You can throw a tantrum on the Internet in front of thousands of people, you can call me a hypocrite or whatever other name you can think of, or you can twist and spin the words everyone who has commented on this post to mean what you want it to mean but you cannot change the facts. And my comments are up there for everyone to see. I did not ignore your point, I answered it. You claiming I didn’t is more troll like behavior and deflecting from the fact that you have not answered the above mentioned points. I quite clearly pointed out that a wise woman does not allow herself to be put in a situation like that and then you responded by claiming that training women how to avoid such situations amounts to blaming the victim. Remember? That was the point that you lost all credability, now deal with it.
Thats a load of bull shit and you know it. I’m not acting like anything, I’m simply disagreeing with you, dear.
“I quite clearly pointed out that a wise woman does not allow herself to be put in a situation like that”
Ok, tell me how I can somehow avoid these situations. Where can I go? Where can’t I go? Where do I have to keep looking over my shoulder every two seconds to make sure nobody is going to rape me? What if i’m on a date, get drugged so I can’t fight back then I get raped? You can’t look at a person and think “Oh hes a rapist I wont go out with him”. That would be stupid and judgmental.
Is it my fault if I don’t take precautions? Am I not a “wise women” if I get raped? Common sense tells me to not go down some dark ally or to a party by myself. You can’t predict when and where somebody decides to rape another. Sorry, I can’t live my life constantly looking over my shoulder, worrying about bad things that might or might not happen to me. I can learn how to defend myself but if the other person is much stronger than I am or has a lethal weapon theres nothing i’m going to be able to do about it. Its a harsh reality. Try telling your bull shit to a rape victim and see what kind of response you get.
@UnconventionalButterfly - There are answers to each of these questions. If you truly want to know then my recommendation is that you seek out a woman’s self defense course taught by a highly respected teacher. There is far more to self defense than fighting, in fact the class I teach spends less than ten percent of our time on that. And as I said before, the attitude it creates is the exact opposite of the one you describe. it’s a peaceful serenity, a confidence to know how to handle any situation.
I know that it must seem from your point of view, like I’m picking on you. But you must understand the full weight of what you’ve done here: Some poor girl somewhere likely read your comments and thought; Hell yeah, I can go anywhere and do anything and nothing will happen to me ever because it’s all the other guys fault. Then sooner or later, as inevitably happens when we have that attitude she’ll get hurt. Hopefully she won’t be raped, but she will be hurt in some way. When that happens where will you be? In time you will learn that what you say and how you say it matters. And sometimes it can hurt people in ways you don’t now realize.
That’s why people like me do what we do. Sure we can’t stop all bad things from happening, but most of it’s peventable.
@nidan - Sorry sweetie put it sounds like its a false comfort zone to me. You need to be able to control everything to be able to live your l life peacefully and I truly feel sorry for you. I would go crazy if I thought like you do.
You just are not understanding me even though I keep saying the same thing over and over again. A girl who looks at my comments and thinks that is a fool. I feel bad that you think its at least partially the girls fault for getting raped if she didn’t (by your standards) take the right precautions, I really do. I would love for you to say that to a rape victim’s face so you could see how wrong you are.
Alas, I guess i’ll have end this conversation. We’ll never agree to anything so why should we bother keeping this up? By all means you can reply back and have the last word, I really don’t care.
Did your commenter seriously just sit there with her tits on display and call other women “total whorebags” because of the way they dress?
@UnconventionalButterfly - Of course it sounds like a false comfort zone to you. That’s the whole problem with ignorance.
You’re the one who’s actually not listening to me. And what you keep repeating are thoughtless talking points that have little to no basis in reality. I don’t think (Not even partially) that it’s the victims fault. You only think that I do, because you were told to think that so that you wouldn’t have to think more thoughtfully.
And by the way I have counseled several rape victims, child.
And now we’re back to the Hotel Royal crap again. You don’t have to keep telling me you’re going to leave, you can just quit commenting.
@blonde_apocalypse - Really? Who did that?
No.
@nidan - One of the first couple of commenters.
@blonde_apocalypse - I dunno if I should LOL or feel sorry for them.
@nidan - That’s why I come to Dan’s site. There’s always someone who says something that makes you say, “Holy crap, I seriously cannot believe he/she said that with a straight face!”
@alyssajunkie - to say that women in military gear dont seem like they would be attracting the attention that would bring on rape, that is completely absurd!!!! Rape happens no matter WHO you are or WHAT you wear….the rates of rape in the military are enormous…a women should be able to go naked without the threat of violence or rape!! NO ONE has the right to force themselves on anyone.
@xkawaiinex - its not thugs that are raping people…..the truth is is that its usually people the victim knows….a friend, acquaintance, etc, and also usually occurs in most frequently in the victim’s home, or another place that is familiar to the victim–so this tells you that it is not some thug or boogy-man in the bushes who snatch girls and attack them, and then disappear into the night. I have survived rape twice, and both times were people that I knew–and also–to the point of this topic-neither time was I dressed provocatively–both times in fact, I was wearing blue jeans, a long sleeve shirt, and boots (no heel)…..nothing about that is provocative. I did not invite this attention, or attract this “type” of person to me–yet, this happened just the same–I am a very strong young woman (both physically and mentally)–this is not a matter of physical strength, etc. The crime of rape is not that of sex. It is a game of violence, and ultimately of dominance. It is a sickness of the mind that unless you are capable of it, then you will never understand it. Ultimately, what experience, education, and just life has taught me–is that some people are capable of incredible things, amazing things. We are capable of outstanding courage and bravery when called upon, sincerity and kindness, and also of unimaginable cruelty, ambivalence, rage. The spectrums are far apart, but it is our tenacity and courage that will ensure that not only survive, but strive.