September 14, 2011
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Divorcing for Alzheimers
Pat Robertson is in the news for talking about a man who had a wife with Alzheimer’s. The man sent in a question to Robertson’s show.
The man’s wife had Alzheimer’s and he developed a relationship with another woman.
Pat Robertson said that the man probably go ahead and divorce his wife since she was already “dead.” He went on to say “he certainly wouldn’t put on a guilt trip” to someone who decided to divorce. Here is the link: Link
Do you think it is wrong to leave your spouse if he/she gets Alzheimer’s?
Comments (95)
I say divorce them as soon as they break something. They’re basically no good after that either.
Yes.
“…In sickness and in health…”
No, I don’t. Older people still have plenty of life left in them. I see no problem with a divorce. And I’d reckon she doesn’t even get it. However, he should (IMO) continue to make sure she is taken care of. That is the important issue here. She may not even remember he is her husband.
Well… I don’t think it’s wrong. Divorce will always be a sad thing and you really should listen to the “in sickness and health” part… I’m not saying it wouldn’t be horrible.
But at the same time, you can’t force someone to go through the pain of living with someone that was slowly forgetting you and you cant force people to stay with someone they’ll fallen in love with just because they should feel like they “owe” them something. I’m not making sense.
In your vows you say “in sickness and health” so it is going against your vows. I wouldn’t divorce over that. I would stay until the bitter end.
That’s terrible D:
I can’t remember.
Has no one read the book The Notebook? This story was about this and the man did not leave his wife, and yes it is based on a true story. ” Or in sickness and in health” only means certain sickness? It’s morally and ethically wrong. How do you know that person with help wouldnt come back to remembering? Now that would be a story. And the breakthrough we have to treat and help prevent Alzheimer’s?
Really people?
Honestly, I am hesitant to pass judgment, not knowing the whole story. But I also wouldn’t call a person with Alzheimer’s “dead.” That’s a little…wow.
Depends on how advanced the Alzheimers is. After they stop knowing who you are, I say… they’re not going to miss you much…
A person with Alzheimer’s isn’t “dead.”
I disagree with the idea of divorce in general. What’s the point of wedding vows if no one takes them seriously? ”In sickness and in health” doesn’t mean you get to pick and choose, and leave when shit gets hard. It means you deal with it together, no matter what happens.
However, it seems like the old dude’s already made up his mind. He’s in a relationship with another woman, so not only is he an asshole for trying to leave his wife when she needs him the most, he’s a double asshole for cheating on her.
Yes it is wrong.
take care of the sick wife and have a fling. win, win.
Really, Pat Roberston? It’s condemnable to Hell for a same-sex couple to honor “Til Death to Us Part” but for an adulterer to ignore the “In Sickness” part? What a jagoff.
That’s awful! If my husband got Alzheimer’s and for some odd reason I felt like leaving him I’d at least make sure he’d be taken care of, but to leave somebody because of they’ve gotten sick? That’s what I respect most about Michael J. Fox and his wife, despite everything they’re still together.
I wouldn’t divorce someone because they had Alzheimers. I’d stay and take care of them even though they might not know who I am. I’d want them to do the same for me. How would the man feel if the situation was reversed?
For the same reason that you would not be able to Marry someone with Alzheimer’s, you could also not get a legal divorce from them. They are not in possession of their faculties, and could not consent. Basically old Pat just gave some shit advice, like usual. He even managed to downgrade the sanctity of human life in the process. “…For better or worse, in Sickness and in Health, till Death do us part.”, I think the vows are fairly obvious as they are.
people with alzheimers live in different times…. my grandpa had it…may he rest in peace…at one point they might think theyre 11 again and then snap back to real time. its hard living with them yes but if u love that person its well worth the trouble. my mom took care of this lady as well who btw is dying bc of the alzheimers… its so advanced she forgets to eat,chew drink swallow anything pretty much … although its this advanced she still comes back to real time even if for a min each day.
i know i have a chance @ developing it… it runs in my famand i would stick with my hub if he developed it “to the bitter end” is right.
@forever_musing - no, you wouldn’t. I live in a mental facility with people that have alzheimer’s. We should kill them or let them wander until their deaths. They are truly dead. All they do is fight and wander around with fractured speech and thought. Here’s a typical conversation or day.
Alzheimer’s patient: what time is it?
Normal person: It’s three to four.
Alzheimer’s patient: I work here. I have to go to the river now. (There is no river, and he doesn’t work here.)
Normal person: Why don’t you stay inside for awhile? It’s hot outside.
Alzheimer’s patient: No, I have to go to the river now! There are cats on the roof. When my wife gets back, she’ll be tired.
Normal person: You need to calm down. Your wife is in the hospital, which is why you’re here.
Alzheimer’s patient +runs out door+ And we find him down the road crying on a trampoline about the tractor that he thinks he broke.
That one’s a little more vocal. The other one just agrees with everything, assaults the staff and tries to runaway back to his house.
These people have no memory of who they are. It’s sad that we force them to live in disgrace.
When one gets married, one becomes dedicated to making sure the other person will never be alone and left to the small mercies of the world. If a person leaves their sick spouse, they are abandoning their partner at his or her most vulnerable time. That… is unacceptable.
Alzheimer’s and dementia are hellish conditions. But the healthy partner isn’t the only one living in Hell. I would not leave.
yes, it’s wrong to leave. You chose your spouse and you took a vow. I would never leave my husband for anything…better or worse, sickness and health… and all that commitment/ contract fun stuff. When he is the one for me, he will be until the day either of us passes away… End of story. Now when I die he is free to marry again until then … we should be there for each other.
Honestly if he truly loved her he’d stick by her side through her sickness as she’d most likely do for him. When you marry you take the vow “in
sickness
and in health” and that isn’t something you should take lightly, especially if your love is real.
@TiredSoVeryTired - That may be so but they do have bouts when their memory do come back. how do you think they feel when they come back and realize their husband abandoned them? I know this from experience. my grandma dealt with this and she’d go from forgetting to remembering all the time.
People are free to do what they want. I call vows of marriage vows of oppression.
that’s a tough call…but i could go either way to be honest…
Yes, it’s wrong. I would never leave my spouse for any health reason…you make vows “for better for worse, in sickness and in health”. You don’t get to pick and choose which diseases or conditions are acceptable for your spouse to get and for you to live with. You just do it, because you love them and because they are family. It would be wrong to just leave them…totally wrong…just so you can live your life without the “burden.”
I find that disgusting that he said that people with Alzheimer’s are “already dead.” There are varying degrees of Alzheimers, and if you know how to be compassionate and loving with them, there are things they can still enjoy about life, even if they are confused. You can make it as good as you can for them, as long as possible, before it deteriorates completely.
I know a family with a profoundly disabled daughter….their other two children are “normal”, but their disabled 7 year old is mostly bedridden, can’t walk, can’t talk, can’t feed herself, has seizures, has hearing aids, needs oxygen when she sleeps….she goes to a special school and has physical and occupational therapy…not that she will ever “get better”, but so that she is stimulated and has as positive experience in her life as possible….should they just throw her away, leave her, institutionalize her because she can’t function normally? No….that would be abandonment. Instead, they made a special bed for her in the middle of the house, amidst all the activity and hustle and bustle of the household, and they built a special cubby above her head and hung Christmas lights and other things for her to look at, and she’s included in everything the family does. Love, no matter what. Same thing with an ill spouse.
@Legendairy said it best.
I have personally seen spouses stay with their SO’s after alzheimer’s. Its not easy, but its a beautiful thing. To leave them is the coward’s way out.
He didn’t need Robertson’s advice until now? Odd.
I find it pretty selfish to be honest. I mean they are married, they has committments. I know Alzheimers is a very hard sickness for somebody to deal with. My mother right now is married to someone who has beginning stages of it. She struggles every day but she takes care of him every single day. when his daughter tried tto put him into a nursing home because she hates my mother.. My mother fought it and won. My mom is 18 years younger than her husband but she will not leave him for anything or anyone no matter what. My point is, if you truely love someone you will do what ever it takes to take care of them.
I would hope that this man plans to continue taking care of her at least.
you’re not hurting the other person by leaving them, they don’t remember you! but YOU are hurting every day because your spouse doesn’t know you
@StrawberrySunrises - That’s why I said that he should still care for her. If he still has life left in him, he shouldn’t suffer a worse fate than his poor wife. Any new wife should understand what’s going on. Plus, if I had Alzheimers and was married I would expect my husband to go live a full life. It is tough to live so alone like that. I wouldn’t wish that kind of life on him. (I am also assuming someone who will divorce a spouse is divorcing one that has progressed far and the patient is hospitalized or in a special care home in some fashion.)
Isn’t Robertson one of those conservative Christian fundamentalist leaders who have been complaining about the de-valuing of marriage by allowing same sex marriage, etc.? And here he is, saying that the “for better or for worse” vow that we take when we get married can be discarded when the “for worse” part comes around. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As hard as Alzheimers is to live with, and to deal with (my granddad had it), I think it’s cold to break up with someone over it. They’re dazed and confused as it is – the last thing they need is to cope with a divorce. Yes, they might not remember much, but I think leaving them is a really shitty thing to do. Understandable, yes, but shitty.
“in sickness and in health.” Wow. That guy is a jackass.
While the vows are important, one does have to remember that life will continue, with or without the Alzheimer’s, and anyone can only be expected to put up with just so much, no matter the cirmcumstance.
That being said, if you know anything about Alzheimer’s affected people, their grasp on reality is tenuous, at best, and has a tendency to run in circles repetitiously on the logical side of things. Drive you nuts is the very lightest side of this issue. However, the person you’ve decided to be with “forever” does have needs that you need to address, and you would have to be a real dog of a person to ‘just’ up and abandon them. That being said, we each deal with it as we have to, and may the good lord have mercy on you, afterward.
Peace
As a Christian, I see marriage as a reflection of the ultimate marriage, which is between Christ and the church. Christ and the church will be together forever. Marriage is supposed to be until death, and while I understand this man’s heartbreak, I personally would not divorce my spouse. Marriage isn’t about you, it’s about God. We get to enjoy it and it is a beautiful portrait of true love, but ultimately, it is not about us (IMO).
@christao408 - omg you’re right! I never did like that guy or that show that he was on. He is such a big fake.
if the man truly loved the woman, he wouldn’t even think of leaving. they’re not “dead” just because the have Alzheimer’s.
It’s sad, people have become so damn selfish
but I’m good at being one of them as well…..
It is easy to say “just stay married, continue the relationship”. I also think it is terrible to leave. These people do still have feelings they are NOT DEAD.
But I think at a certain it point it is understandable if it’ too much for one persson. They will need support, maybe the alzehimer patient needs to move to a nursing home. And I kind of understand if there is a new peron in one’s life that they love too. But that does not mean they should leave them alone or completely abandon them.
Alzheimer’s is a horrible disease, but last i checked, “In sickness and in health” is part of the marriage vows.
Pat Robertson has always been an ass. He talks out both sides of his mouth and for a supposed “man of God”, he sure gave some advice that goes against what his Bible teaches him. My husband and I take care of each other and have since we met. We will continue to do so until one of us is gone. I wonder how Robertson would feel if his family deserted him if he were sick?
Pat Robertson speaks only for himself and foolishly speaks out. Possibly not as sharp as he might have been years passed, that is if he was ever ‘sharp’. Maybe those that hang on his every word have been drinking the Koolade too long.
@TheEmeraldPixie - You are right on. The basic “treating others as you wish to be treated” still stands.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Lmao. Good logic.
For better or for worse…in sickness and in health.
It’s a tough situation, so i think it’s not exactly fair for any of us to judge it from the outside…but if you made a vow with this person to remain committed to them until death, then you leave them when they need you the most? It doesn’t seem right to me.
This reminds me of the Notebook a lot. This guy needs to take a hint from Noah. (If you’ve seen the movie or read the book, you know what i’m talking about.)
To each their own. I would, however, agree with the people that said that, regardless of what he does, he should make sure that she is taken care of for the rest of her days.
Is it wrong? Yeah. Is it understandable? Definitely.
depends on how bad it is. if his wife doesn’t remember him 95% of the time I would say it is ok
@Cookstergirl88 - “How do you know that person with help wouldnt
come back to remembering? Now that would be a story. And the
breakthrough we have to treat and help prevent Alzheimer’s?”
Not picking on you, nor picking a fight but: Alzheimer’s patients no matter how much help they get, will never ‘come back to remembering’. Alzheimer’s is the progressive DESTRUCTION of neurons in the part of the brain that holds and creates memories – there IS NO RECOVERY. There is no current breakthrough treatment or prevention of Alzheimer’s either, though neuroscientists all over the world are madly searching for it. This is partly because the disease process itself is still not 100% understood.
Wow, I honestly wouldn’t leave.
Reminds me of a story about this guy that had memory loss so bad, he loses his memory every minute or so. His wife never left him. The only person he remembered was his wife though. Imagine though, having to deal with someone that doesn’t even get to live outside of a minute timespan. Remembering absolutely nothing.
That’s what true love is all about.
That is horrible. Of course we don’t know the paticulars of their relationship, but it makes me so sad to think about that woman dying alone.
Part of me would feel really guilty if I were to get Alzheimers, and if it were to advance greatly, and my husband could not have a relationship with me or be intimate with me, and yet he also could not find companionship elsewhere.
..Granted, I wouldn’t understand all that.
This is very hard. At the same time, if my husband were to get Alzheimer’s very badly..I don’t think I would want to leave him. I love HIM. Even if his mind goes..even his body fails him. What makes him a person is his soul, his ability he once had to understand me, to love me. It is still..”him”. Just him impaired.
..It would be very sad, all the same.
Developing a relationship with another person while you’re married is called “having an affair.” Doing so while your spouse is ill is called “being an asshole.” If you need an illustration, just look up a photo of John Edwards.
That’s tough. I don’t think I would fault someone else for doing it, but I can never see myself doing that to Rick. I love him so much there could never be another now anyway. The other day we were just talking about how hard it is to be with someone who is still stuck on someone else, and being in that other person’s shadow. And we both agreed that we would be that way about each other if one of us died. There can never be another. Not ever again.
I think it’s disappointing the state that marriage has fallen into. It’s disposable, it’s convenient. That was never what it was supposed to be. I do believe it’s wrong for him to leave her. There’s a certain selfishness involved rather than a commitment. Loving is to work for the good of another. Abandonment, whether it’s recognized or not, is wrong. Imagine if this story was about that of a dependent child. The thought of abandoning him or her would horrify so many more people…
In this situation, he’s already cheating on her, so yes, make sure she’s taken care of and divorce her.
@Cookstergirl88 - I thought of the Notebook too when reading this lol
For one, it depends on how far advanced the alzheimer’s is, if it is not that bad, you should not be divorcing them while they are early on. If they are completely gone and you have mourned the loss of your spouse, while their body lives on, don’t waste around for that person. They wouldn’t want you to either.
It is absolutely wrong. Not only do your vows state, “in sickness and in health,” but also “for better or for worse.”
@Cookstergirl88 - I have to agree with 99% of what you are saying, BUT The Notebook was not based on a true story. Nicholas Sparks wasn’t to portray his in-law grandparents love, but neither of them had Alzheimers. The only story Nicholas Sparks wrote that was true A Walk To Remember from his sister, and the story he wrote with his brother.
Moving on, I don’t think that just because someone has Alzheimers they are considered “dead.” Both of my grandparents had it, and although it was sad to live through it, I’m glad they still had a few years left in them to be around us, instead of just dying.
I also wouldn’t leave my husband if something ever happened to him. We said “In sickness and in health.” in our vows, and I meant every word.
That would be hard. I love my wife and if I saw her going through this, I think that I would still stick around. It’s a hard road but I would want her to stick with me and be by my side.
Why divorce when you can have your cake and eat it too?
Pat Robertson is just another headline grabbing jerk!
@forever_musing - …’til death do you part’ also part of the vow.
This man has obviously never had a loved one suffer from the disease. Just because they forget who you are, doesn’t mean they are dead. They are still there, and they still need to be loved and cared for. I usually try to see others points of view, and try to appreciate where they are coming from, but coming from a family where Alzheimer’s runs deep, I am disgusted by this and would never want my hypothetical husband to divorce me because my memory was was gone.
Honestly if it were me I would want my husband to be able to be with someone else, but still make sure I am provided for and well cared for. I wouldn’t hold it against him if he were with someone else, but I don’t understand why marriage has to be part of it. Wouldn’t it be enough to live with that person and be with them? Why do you have to say vows and sign papers? I feel that if you marry someone you are beholden to them and must care for them for the rest of their life. Divorcing them would make it too easy to not do that, it would be too easy to “forget” them and leave them to the state. I wouldn’t deny anyone human companionship but I would still expect them to uphold the vows they took.
Can’t believe someone just said we need to kill alzheimer’s patients. If we went with that logic, we’d have to kill profoundly mentally retarded people as well, if personhood is defined by your usefulness.
No, I find it really insensitive and offensive that a person would divorce their other half, on the grounds they have Alzheimers. And to say they’re “dead anyway”, is just plain inhuman. The person doing the divorcing can’t have much love or feeling. Just a selfish individual in my opinion. I’m not at all against divorce if two parties agree they find they can’t continue to live together for whatever reason. But…to basically abandon the other person because they happen to be stricken with dementia or alzheimers, where they don’t know what’s happening anymore is being VERY disloyal to my way of thinking.
wow… so much selfish “love” and people who don’t know that is what they have.
I am a Family Caregiver. Elderly parents that suffers with Alzheimer’s or Dementia tend to do much better when they are around love ones that care. They have good and bad days like everyone else. I know that Alzheimer’s and Dementia gets worse when they are in their final stages. But I would stay until that final day comes.
The man that left his wife to be with another woman because his wife has Alzheimer’s. Hmm..How does he know that the woman that he is with will not leave him if he gets sick? Sometimes what you do comes back to you. Margo
@the_rocking_of_socks - Yep. I love that you called him a “double asshole”. That’s exactly right.
Someone with Alzheimers isn’t “dead”. Does Robertson call himself pro-life, too? (I think he may be another double asshole. Just saying.)
That is absolutely horrible. Alzheimers runs in my family and if I ever get it, I hope my husband will love me enough not to throw me away like old takeout.
That guy is awful. If it happened to my husband, damn right I would stay. I mean, if situations were reversed, do you think that guy would be okay with her just bailing on him? “Thanks for all the years of love and support, but now that you’re damaged, I’m just gonna trade you in for a new model.” WHO DOES THAT?
@Colorsofthenight - You sound like a coldhearted person, and I truly hope that people already in such an awful position would at the very least have someone with an ounce of compassion and caring around them. By your logic, anyone with a mental disease or handicap should just be killed, because they are “already dead.” They do have moments and even days of lucidity, even up to the end. (I know this from experience, it runs in my family) I doubt you’d be pleased if someone was advocating just killing you.
Also, letting people “wander until their deaths” would be incredibly cruel. They are in a position where they often can not take care of themselves and are unaware of where they are. What you are advocating is unwarranted suffering. People don’t even do that with animals. You’d probably be morally outraged if someone suggested setting an injured dog free in the the wild to wander until it died.
@xFgtxRainbowx - no, I stick up for them all of the time actually. If you read my current blog, you’ll see this, the comment section of my last blog. People have no empathy for them. I do care about them while they’re alive, but we should really kill them for mercy reasons.
I watched a television show once where old people wandered off to do one last thing at a set again. i found it romanitc. Alzheimer’s people love to wander. I figure let them do what they love as they go.
It’s difficult to convey tone over the internet. They say I’m schizophrenic. i don’t think I was or am. I think I had some metabolic changes when my thyroid failed that caused psychotic episodes.
@xFgtxRainbowx - you have to read the comment section to see it, though I frequently blog about it.
here’s what I wrote today about the nurse that screamed at everyone, and they do this in care facilities. My last adult foster home was evil. I’m stuck in them though for another year.
“now she’s arguing with an alzheimer’s patient, which is pointless and cruel. She’s accusing him of upsetting another patient. The two patients just talk about nonsense together. Yesterday, he thought that the other was his brother. He’s friendly with him, and now he’s sad. He said a minute ago, “I’m an honest man, and I try to do things right.” He’s near tears, though he’s rambling incoherently about finding his car again. All he knows is that he’s in trouble. She upset him.
I’m going to record her and turn her into the state if she does that to him again. She can yell at me all day, but these people are very ill”
I care.
@Mrs_FoodLover - But it is!
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081228103901AA3kR8I
Really I’m not trying to be an ass. He may have changed some things but its based on a real couple.
@Cookstergirl88 - I read that he based it on their love for one another and their commitment but that the alzheimers part wasn’t true. Either ways, it was a great movie! =) & You aren’t being an ass, I promise! =)
@xFgtxRainbowx - I’ve been looking for this, but since you’re at-risk http://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2162
I haven’t been to many weddings, but at all of them I remember something along the lines of “in sickness and in health…”
But come on! They meant like, colds and stuff. Not Alzheimer’s.
@xFgtxRainbowx - just curious have you had genetic testing to see if you have it ? If it is the genetic variety of Alzheimer’s as you stated it runs in your family, then it is most likely verifiable…..and that way you can prepare (and do as much as you can to offset its onset, if that makes sense)
I am actually really surprised Pat Robertson would say a thing like that. I think it shows that maybe he is not the person to be listening to for spiritual or marriage issues.
In sickness and in health, till death we both shall part. No abuse, no infidelity, just one person is terribly ill? Not a reason for divorce.
@Livin_All_I_Do - What ? Are you a lawyer/law student or something ? Are you picking on the definition of ‘sickness’ to not include Alzheimer’s ? Because Alzheimer’s is a sickness. You could get it. I could get it. Your neighbour could get it. Just like a cold “and stuff”. How can you even say “they didn’t meant that!” Not to mention the fact you overlooked possibly the most important part of the vows “till death do us apart” – which should therefore render ANY REASON for leaving obsolete unless one of them dies.
@Brain Student - I have not had testing myself, partly because knowing that at this point in my life wouldn’t so much help me to prepare as terrify me of the future. It’s on my mother’s side. Both her father’s mother and father, and her mother’s mother had it. (My other greatgrandfather died young) My mom’s parents saw a genealogist many years ago, but it wasn’t conclusive. As of right now, one of my mommom’s three sisters definitely has it, and another one is showing signs. My poppop’s sister also has it. Neither of my mother’s parents has it, as of now. (Hopefully they never do.)
Testing is probably something I will do later, but as of right now, I just turned 21, and I don’t want to find out yet.
@Colorsofthenight - I can’t stand places like that, and I’m sorry to hear you have to be there as well. My great grandmother was in a care facility, but her’s was not like that. She passed on recently, at 95. She had really horrible days, obviously, but she was visited a lot, and she did remember who was visiting her frequently, even if it took a while. From what I understand, she was not unhappy, and was looking forward to living to 100. It’s a horrible disease, and it’s painful when someone you love does not remember who you are, but they can still get enjoyment out of life.
Oh, this coming out of a man of God … how awful !!
@xFgtxRainbowx - Wish you the best !
i see it as being wrong
and a person with Alzheimer’s is most certainly not “dead”
He should watch his words. I think he has Alzheimer’s.
@AsToldByKatie - Judging from that guy that worked in a hospital’s post, I’m pretty sure they are (dead)
No. It’s as wrong as divorcing for any mental health issue. Marriage is a promise to love in sickness and in health.
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