March 24, 2012
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Women Should Get Permission from Their Husbands/Boyfriends
Republican Alan Dick believes women should get permission from their husbands or boyfriends before they are allowed to get an abortion.
His thinking is like this: “if a woman gets pregnant and decides to have the baby, he said, then the guy is on the hook for paying for it for 18 years. Yet if the woman chooses not to carry the child all of a sudden it’s her individual personal choice,” he said. “…I don’t think it’s really her pregnancy because it’s their pregnancy. And if anything the decision to have an abortion should be made not only by the woman but the man who is also involved.”
He went on to say, “Double standards always bothered me and if I thought that a man’s signature was required in order for a woman to have an abortion I’d have a little more peace about it…” Here is the link: Link
Should a woman be required to get permission from the guy before getting an abortion?
Comments (175)
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Fuck no.
No.
Sounds ridiculous to me.
Of course! It took two to make the child, it should take two to end it. (Mind you, I am PASSIONATELY AGAINST abortion…but, if it becomes legal in all US states, then this is the “compromise” I’d accept.)
aha… you already know the majority answer.
no
@Rhindon -_-
I think there is a little more to it then that. bbl to comment
I can’t say that I agree, however, I do think that his reasoning makes sense.
lol
i suppose it’s fairer for both parties involved if they’re aware of what’s going on.
disclosure is always nice.
but as for permission – because this issue affects women’s bodies and not men’s…mother nature has already tossed the ball to women’s court. it’s her body with something given from his. what she wants to do with it is her business.
Absolutely. And for the reasons that you mentioned.
Mr. Dick is a dick. A sexist, backward, stupid dick.
Sure it should be a joint decision if the situation is ideal. But if she’s considering abortion, the situation is likely not ideal. And “permission?!” Excuse me, I’m not a child, I’m a grown adult. Permission is something you give to a child.
Dick.
@Rhindon - lol only if the woman actually wants the child. responsibility should be on both parties, sure, but when it comes down to it, who’s most affected by the pregnancy? biologically and psychologically, women bears the burden.
not to mention, i don’t agree with the guy acquiring the right to a woman’s body. he will never have that right. and no one is allowed that right either.
@juslitome - This.
Yes, I think so. My husband’s mother wanted to get an abortion when she found out she was pregnant with my husband. If her boyfriend (who wasn’t actually the father, it turns out) hadn’t stepped in and convinced her to keep the baby, there would be one less wonderful person in this world. Thankfully, her boyfriend convinced her to have the baby, whom he raised by himself. I think that the father SHOULD have a say in whether or not an abortion is an option. There are some fathers who are willing to take on the responsibilities of parenthood even if the mother is not. (personally I don’t believe in abortion anyway)
I don’t like the use of the word permission. The father of the potential child does deserve to have a say in the matter, but only to keep the child. He has no right to push the mother to have an abortion. My sister went through that, and it really messed with her for the longest time.
God help the human race because they have no clue what life is!
I don’t think they should get the man’s PERMISSION. However, I do believe that a woman should get the man’s OPINION. I agree that it takes both of them to have unprotected sex, and that an abortion should be talked about by both parties. However, regardless if they have permission or not, a woman who wants to get an abortion will find a way to get it.
@leaflesstree - His name sure does fit him properly.
There should be no law regarding this because it depends on the situation. Most men would say “no” regardless of the factors, and then, when the baby was born and things got difficult, they’d walk away leaving the mother with the burden.
Seen it happen more than once, unfortunately.
Murder should always involve input from the entire family. Nothing personal. It’s just business.
I think that the father of the child deserves a say whatever his opinion is. That said, I personally think that every life is valuable and don’t believe in abortion. In any case, I wouldn’t presume to make someone else live by my beliefs. I would not have an abortion, but I won’t hate someone who would. I guess the woman could just have the baby and give the father custody, or put the baby up for adoption. But then again, a pregnancy is a very emotional and physical strain. I understand why some women choose to end theirs.
If she engaged in sex with him willingly, then yes. Even if it was a one night stand & he finds out & wants the child – then why the hell not?
That baby is HALF his DNA and ALL his child as much as it is ALL her child. So he has every right to decide if he wants to raise this child that has already been created into existence.
I also feel that if a guy wants nothing to do with a child of his (which makes him hugely & awfully selfish), then he should not have any obligation whatsoever to care for that child in any way, shape or form.
If women have the right to choose, why not men? A woman couldn’t get pregnant without the sperm of a man after all. So it is NOT her child alone, she should not make the decision alone.
@ThaPlatinumOne - Babies also result from “protected” sex.
Absolutely yes. The man had an equal part in conception and shares an equal responsibility to care for a child once it’s born. He should have rights regarding his child being killed or allowed to live, too. Many men would happily take a baby and raise it as a single father to keep it from being murdered. They should have that choice. Abortion should be classified as criminal murder, but if it isn’t, this law should definitely be in place.
Everyone should be aborted, quit yer bitching,
Society views men who sleep around as studs, yet views women who do the same as sluts. We practically hand out Viagra (oh, look at that, spell-check even recognizes the brand name!) like it’s candy and we rarely (if ever) hear about drugs to enhance a woman’s libido. Birth control for men hasn’t progressed much further than condoms, yet we make women jump through all kinds of hoops to get birth control. Political men are trying to legislate both birth control and abortion right out of the picture, yet many men turn out to be deadbeat dads not paying child support and not being involved in the child’s life. Now they want us to get their permission to have an abortion?!? I’ve seen so many people tell women if they aren’t ready for/don’t want a baby then they shouldn’t have sex. How about having men take that same advice? How about men actually supplying their own condoms and using them? I hesitated to jump on the recent bandwagon that this is a war against women, but I’m starting to think that’s exactly what’s going on.
So now men should have a say in their own children?! What kind of crazy world are we living in?
Hell, fucking no! A woman doesn’t need the permission of any man to decide what to do with her own body. Besides, how silly really, are they gonna order DNA testing to be sure who the father really is before I pay a random guy $50 to sign some paperwork for me??? Hello, you can’t even enforce it. This is just another sick ass attempt to control women again all in the disgusting guise that women now have more rights than men.
@Melissa___Dawn - Of course it is a war on women! If it wasn’t the politicians would be mandating laws requiring men to spend equal hours providing child care for their own children. Politicians would be waging war against the parents who don’t pay child support. They wouldn’t be wasting their time on controlling what women do or punishing women for being in an abortion clinic, they’d be making both parents equally responsible in the care of their children.
His opinion is based on the belief that a fetus is not part of a woman’s body. Based off this belief it is natural to assume that a woman shouldn’t be able to abort the fetus because it’s not part of her body.
But if he believes a fetus is a living actual human, separate being; then he shouldn’t be for abortion at all.
The way I see it, either a fetus is part of a woman’s body, and it’s her decision, or it’s not and it’s a living separate being and abortion should be illegal.
@greene_lily - Wow, it turned out great for your husband’s mother so it’ll turn out great for EVERYBODY!!! Yay!!! A national debate solved! Can’t argue with your logic there :-p
I am very heartened by how many more people disagree with Dick than agree with him. There is indeed a war on women …. but I’m glad to see how many people are on our side. Yay!
And as for my own 2 cents about Dick, well, I can only say that this bill should be signed into law along with a law requiring a man to get permission from his wife before having surgery for prostate cancer. After all, having a prostate removed can make a man impotent and- as the second half of a man’s sex life- a woman should have equal say about how he makes choices concerning his own body.
So there. And don’t you man-sluts start whining about “It’s my body! It’s my health! Boohoo!” Remember, we women should be considered too when it comes to choices regarding your sexual organs!
@phoebester – Husbands should also have permission slips before they get a vasectomy and before they have affairs. And I think since men are harder to get to the doctor, a wife should be able to sign her husband up for yearly prostate exams starting at age 40, just to get them used to it and because no woman wants to have an impotent 65-year-old husband some day. No big deal at all there! And since cervical cancer is pretty much caused by HPV hanging out on men’s penises, there should also be twice yearly penisial examinations since men will end up sticking that into women’s bodies and potentially giving them cancer. There should be penis locks that only specially issued keys can unlock once a clear HPV penis is verified. Let’s just go all out crazy on the men for all the crap they cause because I’m tired of men continuing to want to punish women and controlling our bodies. C’mon people this is no different than demanding woman get permission from a man as to what happens to their own body.
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She should get his permission to leave the kitchen first.
While I don’t agree with calling it, “getting permission,” I do think women tend to forget that men should have a say in what goes on. Yes, the man isn’t going to be carrying around the child for 9 months but it took the two of them to create the baby/fetus call it what you will.
NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. How can it be a double standard if males don’t get physically pregnant? Let’s have Alan Dick give birth unwillingly, because his partner insisted they keep the baby, and see how he likes it. I’m pretty sure he won’t be the least bit happy at all.
@MyTwoCentss - If Dad has a document that says he’ll be there, contribute, invest all 18 years, YES he deserves equal say.. Otherwise, I think many men, if they don’t see themselves loving the woman, just want to get away altogether. Mom can’t though. That’s why laws are the way they are. Usually when the love isn’t there, mom unfortunately HAS to be there to make the decision. Dad may be hoping for an abortion, and if she decided, she’s the one left with the raising and decisions..it should be left up to her then if she decides to keep the child then. Even if you don’t believe in abortion, and adoption as the best alternative, I think it should be the mom decision weather to keep or adopt..particularly if dad doesn’t want anything to do with her or the kid (which unfortunately is the way of handling things). He can walk away much easier. Now, if he signs a contract for commitment for 18 years, hell yeah, he deserves equal say then. I agree with you. But physically/biologically, he doesn’t have to..and that’s why laws are like they are.
not a permission. but they both have to discuss and make a mutual agreed decision.
I don’t know if there is really a fair way to handle a situation where one partner wants the child and the other doesn’t. But speaking of which, I have to ask, just out of curiosity, would that work both ways? As in, a woman would also only be allowed to have the child with the father’s consent? Couldn’t this kind of reasoning also result in forced abortions (which I’m sure would go over really well!)?
Oh, Alaska. You’re almost as crazy as Florida.
Right… What if the man happens to be some drugged out jackass who takes off and is nowhere to be found? Just because a woman becomes pregnant, it doesn’t mean she’s fit to give birth or raise a child. And she should have the basic human right to choose what happens to her body. Let’s not forget the self-induced abortions in the 70′s and 80′s. Why can’t people realize that the current freedoms and institutions (such as Planned Parenthood) are in place for a reason? Women fought for hundreds of years for the basic human rights we have today. I will never understand some womens desire to limit them.
Republican. Hmm. Imagine that.
Women are the ones who have the final say, but I don’t begrudge them that because they’re also the ones who’d have to carry the child and go thru childbirth.
Van Dave.
I think he makes a good point, and I say Yes.
I think this is all a very personal matter. This is certainly something that I believe a woman should discuss with the father but “permission” seems ridiculous. As a man I personally would avoid having sexual relations with a woman who wouldn’t discuss something like this with me. As far as legislation goes it is a ridiculous idea. We already have too many unnecessary laws. The government needs to keep it’s nose out of the personal lives of Americans. It’s funny that all these ideas are coming from republicans who claim to be against “big government”.
What if there is no husband/boyfriend? What if the woman was raped and wants to terminate that pregnancy? Should she track down her rapist to sign a permission slip? Blanket laws like this are just ignorant. They don’t take into account the individual situation.
No. Because in cases or rape it would require.the woman to know her attacker. In incest, it requires further humiliation and control over it. Sometimes the woman isnt sure who the father is nor the identity correctly of a one night stand
Absolutely not. A woman could discuss it with her partner for disclosure, but ultimately the decision should be hers. When a man carries a baby for about 9 months and then is left with the primary burden of a child for 18 years, then perhaps he can make the decision.
Certainly not permission. Input, yes. Permission? No.
It’s a federal crime to tamper with the eggs of a bald eagle, but it’s completely legal to have an abortion. Just ridiculous.
“Permission” is a very poor word to use in this instance. There should definitely be input. “Permission” implies guardianship and/or ownership, the latter of which especially is one I thought we wanted to get away from.
Yes of course! It’s as much as his baby too. I think that whole ‘its my body’ is lost when you make the decision to have sex. When you choose the act you choose the consequence. I just think we need to be very protective of our bodies before making that choice. This is where we as women have the insividual power of choice. Once we decided to open our bodies to some one and share it we open and share the consequences with that person.
After reading these comments I am so saddened by all the anger at men. Like they should do this and they should do that. Have their own condoms forced to raise kids. Hell no rights to object to the killing of his child. We as women need to exercise our power to say no sooner! Don’t have sex with him! So sad about all the righteously murdered children.
both parties should talk about it, but she doesn’t NEED his permission. her body.
No, it is her body. If she doesn’t want it she has the right to terminate it. In the end, she is the one who will be stuck with the results of the pregnancy, not the man. He can turn his back and leave at any time which will leave her with all of the responsibilities of a child she did not want in the first place.
I believe that if a woman is forced to watch an abortion or a man has to sign for the abortion that the rate of mothers killing their children after birth or neglecting their children is going to go sky high.
Postpartum depression is a bitch. I’d hate to see the outcome of a postpartum woman who was forced to have said child…
I find it both hilarious and sick that the same people (cough cough REPUBLICANS) who are against government control want to make damned sure that their government controls vaginas and uteruses and women’s sex lives and people’s religious beliefs. God forbid we should have government assistance programs, but dammit, make sure all of these people are obeying CHRISTIAN moral ideals!! Make up your mind: if you’re against the government getting involved in everything, then get your fucking laws out of my reproductive system. Jeeeeeeeeeeezus.
Here’s a fun related question: should a woman have to get permission from her rapist to abort the fetus? After all, it’s half his DNA. This makes me want to vomit.
I don’t think she should get permission. I think the man should supply a surrogate woman and the woman should agree to have the fetus implanted into a woman of his choice if she decides not to carry a baby to term. And insurance companies should be forced to cover this procedure for everyone, and all employers should be forced to supply insurance to everyone of child-bearing age. Also, if a woman gets pregnant and the man doesn’t want a baby, we should have a government mandated Court of Sexual Inquiry, which can determine where the birth control failure occurred. That way our government can assess blame re: the conception of unwanted children. If it’s a failure of science or manufacturing, i.e., broken condom or inadequate hormones in a pill, the pharmaceutical company or manufacturing plant should bear the entire cost of raising the resulting child in the lifestyle to which the wealthiest parent is accustomed. Equitable and easy solutions! Really…I should be in charge in this country.
I can see it now Dan:
Rape Victim to her Raper, “Excuse me, but even though I didn’t ask to be raped, it seems as if I have to ask you for permission to get an abortion…..”
permission was a bad choice of words… of course all of xanga women will say no! if you would’ve rephrased it and said something along the lines of “have a discussion with there SO before having an abortion”, i think you would have a difference response.
If the man really wanta the childand is willing to take care of it then I would say that is his right and she should not be alowed to get one, let the mom just sign custody away. Now if you dissagree with that then tell me why if a man does not want a child but a woman does, why we have to support it? You are gona tell me because he helped make it. I do not think this standard is fair.
If the man is so intent on having a man’s permission for an abortion, does that also mean that he is just as enthusiastic as needing the man’s permission for carrying the pregnancy to term?
I do not think so
I actually sort of agree with this, to an extent. I think women should be required to tell the father (unless, of course, there is none or the woman does not know who the father is, which I understand is a possible loophole but still) because I have actually seen the result of women having abortions without even telling the father & it’s terrible for them, to know the chance was gone before they could even be included in the decision. I don’t think it’s right; it takes two to make a baby, it should take two to make that decision.
It would definitely help with legalities, too, because then if the guy had wanted an abortion but the woman didn’t, he should be able to sign something that says he wants nothing to do with the baby which means he signs over all his legal rights & is essentially no longer the father, so they can’t stay out of the child’s life & refuse to help with them & the out of nowhere want to be a father when the kid’s 13 or something.
I dunno. This has got me thinking for sure.
@xxmikediditxx - See, that wouldn’t be legal because a woman still has to carry the baby to term. No one should ever force a woman to carry a baby & deliver it. I mean, the man gets the baby & the woman is stuck with the regret, the post partum hormones, the stretched out body..? No. Women are not simply here for your breeding purposes. If a man wants a baby so badly, he can adopt. Those women are willing to sacrifice their bodies. & there are plenty of babies in need of adoption.
I think the father should have some input. I definitely wouldn’t say “permission” though, and maybe he didn’t quite phrase it as well as he meant to.
Whose signature is more important then when the man wants his wife/gf to get an abortion but she doesn’t? That’s just too difficult to balance out.
If the man wants to grow a uterus and develop a procedure to transfer the fetus from the woman’s womb to his, then he may have a say.
@Ride_Every_Stride - I understand and respect all that a woman has to go through pregnancy. But there are plenty of guys out there that are atached to their unborn child and love that child. For guys like that, we then have to go through the depression, regret, sadness, and anger of the loss of a child. Just because we can not carry our child does not mean our feelings and opinions should be left out of it. I think permision is a had choice of words but I do think a man should be left out of this decision in some form.
I love the argument that women give, “IT’S MY BODY AND I BEAR ALL THE BURDEN SO I GET THE ONLY SAY”. Not taking into account psychological connections between men and children they’re having, or even the fact that while yes the woman is bearing the child, said child isn’t just HER DNA. But sure, we could just selfishly assert that only women have a say in the life of a child, but then I refuse to pay for the little fuck should I not want to.
It cuts both ways.
Women shouldn’t need “permission”, but both people involved should have an equal say in the life of a child (as long as the conception was consensual).
Simple matter in this is that: If a mother wishes to abort the child, but the father wishes it to be kept, then give the mother the option to absolve herself of the responsibility, or make it illegal to get the abortion. If the father wishes there to be an abortion, but the mother wants to keep it, the father should be allowed to be absolved from responsibility or make it illegal to get the abortion. I’d prefer the option of being absolved of responsibility if my partner decides to ignore my opinion completely. After all, a relationship is an equal partnership, and women want to be equal to men.
So enough of this double standard when it comes to the life of the child.
Sad I wish I had got to this one in time to set a fire and to have enjoyed the it…not that others did not do the same thing for me
For every man paying child support, there is a woman sacrificing their personal life for a kid. I think the woman sacrifices more, actually.
But if the case arises where the man wants to keep it and the woman doesn’t, if the woman is comfortable bringing the child to term, then I don’t see a reason for abortion. But that’s a really, really big if going on there.
This is exactly (EXACTLY) what I ranted about a while back. Except, not needing a signature. But a woman should have the decency to include the man in the decision. Then again, I don’t think women should use abortion as birth control, either. And some women clearly do.
I think this is plainly right, it’s just that people like bringing up red herrings to disprove it.
I can understand his point, but I do think that fining an effective solution will be very difficult. But it’s true. Women have rights men don’t have in this regard. She’s got choices before, during, and after a pregnancy. It’s her body and choice when she wants an abortion and he doesn’t, but all of a sudden, “it takes two” when he wants one, but she has the baby and needs a support check for her body’s choice. And that’s NOT okay.
Honestly it shouldn’t be a matter of permission from either of them. True, the woman has control over her body and the decisions she makes toward it, but she shouldn’t leave the man in the dark, especially if it’s the biological father. The woman should discuss the abortion option with the man, and they should both come to terms of mutual agreement. Mutual agreements don’t always happen but there are still alternative choices that they can compromise on. Sometimes abortion isn’t always the answer, sometimes it is.
It’s all situational.. depending on the relationship of the pair who tango’d.
@xxmikediditxx - I agree wholeheartedly. I have seen the end result of men left out of this decision or even kept uninformed until after the abortion. I’ve even heard of men never getting told & having to hear it from someone other than the woman they got pregnant. It’s awful. I definitely believe they should have to be informed. If there could be a required counselling session for BOTH parents instead of just the woman, where they can reach an amicable conclusion, that would be the best thing to be passed. Too many babies are killed just because someone didn’t want to communicate & it’s sad because you’re right, there are guys out there that think the idea of killing their flesh & blood is wrong.
I’m kind of all over the place on this topic, if you can’t tell lol. See, I myself would be delighted if I couldn’t take care of a baby & the father wanted to, but on that same hand my job would not allow me to get pregnant, I need my body. So I can see both sides of your argument. But I definitely stand that it should be a requirement that the father should be told & should have to sign something that says he was told.
The man isn’t pregnant, it’s the woman. Sure they can talk about it, but if the guy is not willing to cooperate, then the woman can do whatever the heck she wants. It’s her body not his. This is ridiculous!
@yourkbear - A MILLION TIMES THIS!!
Problem is it’s not just about the money, it’s looking after the child that can be resource-intensive. And if the father doesn’t live with the mother, she’s stuck ‘holding the baby’!!! So no, this is not feasible. I get why it makes sense though, but ‘permission’?? No!!
Permission implies that the woman is his property. She isn’t. That said, in a committed, loving relationship…something like this should not be done in secret (between the two).
@Melissa___Dawn - Do you know much about Viagra? It is not something for guys with low libido. It’s for guys who CAN’T get an erection or maintain one. Women do not need to worry about that kind of thing for sex. We can always have sex. As far as libido for enjoying it – being a woman I’m not so sure that a pill can “fix” any lack of libido. I would say that is something the guy can fix by pitching in with the kids, with the house, showing he appreciates her rather than just wants sex. Letting her get a good nap in (since often times it’s being tired that prevents a woman from having a bigger desire for sex).
By the way – I HAVE seen things at Walmart OTC for women for libido & increased sensitivity down there. It does exist, it just doesn’t take pharmaceutical strength drugs to achieve it apparently.
It is NOT a war on women. It a feminist war on motherhood & men.
@TigersLovePepper - Why are women focusing so much on THEMSELVES?! It isn’t permission as in she is his property. It is permission as in that is HIS CHILD. It has little to do with her.
I thought republicans were against government intervention? Or is that just when it’s convenient for them?
And of course – some states are community property states! LOL! So that argument might only apply to non-married couples in some states.
@karen_lynn - A woman CAN walk away. They have safe haven laws where you drop off your infant/child up to a certain age & no questions are asked. So yes, the law protects HER right to do so. There’s also giving your child up for adoption at birth or even before birth you can decide on who adopts your child.
A man should not have to sign a contract promising to be there for 18 years. Instead, he should be put on the birth certificate & then the woman can sign over her rights to the child she didn’t want. Good as gold. The woman is off the hook (selfish as that is) and then the man is the one “stuck” with the child for life. He then never has to see that mother he doesn’t care about ever again.
People are underestimating (many, not all) men & over estimating women. If the woman was so different from the man who wants to walk away – she wouldn’t be considering abortion, would she?
@MyTwoCentss - Your opinion is duly noted. Mine stands. I will always advocate for life on behalf of the unborn child. Always. but, that is not always the decision that is made and I do not think that permission (see dictionary definition) is required…nor should it be.
Sorry!
When you give something away, be it a dollar bill, a toy, a car, a house, a kidney, sperm, whatever – unless there is a valid legal agreement about the transaction – you have no rights to WHATEVER the other person does with said something given away.
If you give someone 10 dollars and they make a million dollars with that money – sorry – you have no rights to the million dollars.
If you give someone 10 dollars and they burn it up for whatever reason – sorry – your have no rights to the 10 dollars.
If you give someone a kidney – sorry – you gave it away – you have no rights to it anymore.
If guys would quit giving away their sperm without a written agreement this would not be an issue.
Once they give away their sperm without a formal agreement – its gone! Not theirs to have a say over anymore!
(Of course, that argument could also be turned around.
Once someone gives you something, and you willingly accept it without an agreement, YOU are responsible for what you do with it. This argument could be used to get a lot of guys out of child support!)
@TigersLovePepper - Well, it seems we’re both advocating for the life of the unborn. That’s what matters. We just see things differently is all. I guess I put myself in the man’s shoes. There are men who LOVE children & have been emotionally put into turmoil because their girlfriends or what not have ended their child’s life in an abortion. I thank GOD I am a woman & therefore I will be spared ever experiencing that powerlessness to save my own child. I just pray to God that my son never has to experience that. Which is one of the reasons I feel they should have equal say.
@MyTwoCentss - I absolutely understand where you are coming from.
The father of the child should be consulted and his feelings should be listened to and taken into consideration. This is a decision between the MOTHER and Father and not the whole family, although other family members should have a right to express their feelings and emotions.
I no longer listen to the GOP bullshit.
His reasoning makes sense. Hell, women carry that parasite in their gut for nine months. If they don’t get divorced, the guy is expected to take care of it financially.
Nevertheless, government should gtfo, we have enough regulations in this country.
@MyTwoCentss - The problem with waiting for him to go on the birth certificate is this – what if he changes his mind during the pregnancy and it’s already too late for an abortion? The woman still gets stuck with a child she doesn’t want/another child gets stuck in already fucked up foster care system.
It’s more of the woman’s choice because she is the one carrying the child. But.. I think, at the very least, the husband or boyfriend should discuss it and be aware of what is happening. My mother had 2 abortions before she had me. According to my older sister, my father was so upset about it that he cried. He was willing to work hard to raise another one despite the low income and the fact that they already had three children. My mother felt that the last two abortions were wrong… and then I came along!
@MyTwoCentss - Yeah, I know what Viagra is and how it works – obviously you didn’t understand the statement. Of course women don’t need Viagra, we don’t have penises. But if women shouldn’t be using birth control or having abortions because it messes with the natural way things are, then when men naturally can’t get an erection they shouldn’t be getting laid.
How do you figure it’s a war on motherhood and men? No one is forcing others not to become mothers if that’s what they want. As for men, well in a lot of cases the men are the first ones to bring up abortion when they find they’ve gotten someone pregnant, so if women have to get their permission what happens when the man wants her to have an abortion and she doesn’t? Does he get to force her to have an abortion?
if a woman gets pregnant and decides to have the baby, he said, then the guy is on the hook for paying for it for 18 years.
I wish my daughter’s father felt that way.
I do believe the father should have a say, but I don’t think a woman needs “permission.”
and because its her body carrying it for 9 months, its more 60/40% than 50/50%
Gotta love the time bomb questions
i agree on some level. The double standard is ridiculous.
a man shouldn’t have to pay child suport for a kid he didn’t want if it’s okay for the woman to kill her kid she didn’t want.
I’d be curious to see what this guy thinks should happen in the case of a rape…
Sure, for a rose-colored world in which the following don’t exist:
1.) Sexual encounters with…
-Rapists; -Brain-washing, abusive boyfriends;
-Brain-washing, manipulative relatives (nonconsensual incest);
-Guys who claim to want a kid but would never share the responsibility in $ support or child-raising, etc.
2.) 100% guaranteed personal, physical burdens on the woman for pregnancy, including but not limited to…
-9 months of needing extra nutrients; craving strange things; carrying extra weight in your uterus and putting extra strain on your feet and back; heightened hormonal & emotional imbalances
-Exhaustion; intensely painful contractions
-A baby’s head tearing through your privates; or alternatively, surgery cutting up your innards
-Chance of death or long-term physical/mental health issues from pregnancy/childbirth complications
Until that rosy world exists, one abusive man’s “non-permission” for abortion should never force a woman to undergo a very personal, physically taxing pregnancy on his behalf. Sounds like slavery.
Bringing a child into a situation where there’s bound to be neglect because for whatever reason a woman has decided that she does not want said child, doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s just another child on this planet who will not get the life it deserves. So what if the man wants the child? A woman has to commit to pregnancy, it’s a life change for nearly a year. A forced pregnancy is one that will suffer. Is the man who will not let his gf/wife have an abortion going to pay for it? Going to take care of the child once it is born? There is too much involved in this situation. No matter what happens in this debate, someone is always going to be suffering… the child.
Um, no. What if the woman was raped? What if she got pregnant while using birth control? It’s her body, and she’s the one who is/will be the most affected by her choice.
What if she was so drunk she couldn’t remember who she slept with? will she be forced to have the baby.. Or if she was raped and he wore a mask? Or if it was an incestuous pregnancy?
This is a terrible, terrible idea and of course it’s the idea of a man out of touch with reality..
how about if that man do not permit, then he will be responsible for child care entirely?
Of course IF it was an act between two who are in a marriage relationship (or headed in that direction). It is NOT just the woman’s “inconvenience”; it’s his too. Both the man and woman should consent, for both will be enjoying/enduring the results of that abortion.
No one has the right to ever tell someone else what they can or cannot do to their bodies. This can include piercings, tattoos, gauges in the ears,…& wait for it….abortion. You read that right. The only reason why a guy is “stuck on the hook for 18 years” is because the woman/girl decided to have the baby & if the mother is willing & able she can gain child support for the kid. Simply because it involves an another human that is completely dependent on its parents or caregivers to ensure its survival. Having to have “permission” to terminate a pregnancy is not the same thing. Despite however many people want to say “life begins at conception.” Until I bring the child to its full 9 months & bring it out into the world..that fetus is mine. Sure, it takes two tango..but in the end until that kid is in his arms or passed the months for an abortion – it is MY right to abort or keep. NO ONE else has the right to have that say. If the guy really wants me to have his child, he needs to prove that his job is good, the pay is enough, we can both support a little being. I do NOT want my man to simply want me to have his kid because he wants the world to bear witness to the fact he ‘spread his seed.’ Passing such a law, is allowing another person to decide on whether or not I have a kid. IMO it’s unacceptable.
@Melissa___Dawn - No. If a man wants the child aborted & SHE wants the child – it is the same darned thing. As long as SOMEONE wants the child then that child IS WANTED. So there is no reason to kill it in an abortion.
@daydreams_nightmares - No system is perfect. Even children who are born into a relationship where both parents WANT them – the kids can still end up hurt. Women go crazy & kill their kids too often. Men have midlife crises that cause them to walk out on their families. Sometimes kids become orphaned & end up with family/friends or the foster system. They can be hurt at any time in their lives under any circumstances. Even when with protective, loving parents it happens – nobody can be on their guard 100% of the time.
So it is our WORLD that is messed up. Is that any cause to kill a kid? If a 5 year old is orphaned because his/her parents are killed in a car crash… should we kill him/her so he/she isn’t “stuck in already fucked up foster care system”?! It’s the same thing for a child who isn’t yet born & whose parents have all but orphaned them by not wanting them.
And what of the hundreds of thousands of people who have lived the foster system & regardless of their childhood are thankful to currently be their own person & experiencing life?
And before you mention how kids can get hurt in the foster system – remember that for every one of those stories, there are the SAME kind of stories from kids who grew up with biological parents or other family members. And there are also stories of kids who have had good experiences in the foster system. So let’s not pretend that it’s the system that is screwed up – again, the world is screwed up. People are screwed up.
what if she got pregnant as a result of a rape?
Republicans never think things through, Severe Christians and Severe Conservatives don’t tend to think things through. just by way of example:
Permission from her rapist? must she hold up her procedure until he’s located, if ever? What if her rapist says no just to be a bastard?
Permission from her father who impregnated her when she was 13 and would get his perverted ass incarcerated if this truth came out, which it would vis a vis the process of getting this permission? What if her father denys the whole thing and still says no?
what if she’s “a slut” and has not clue where the father is or who? the father could be any of, say like, 36 men, hypothetically. Does she have to get permission from all 36 men, assuming she can remmber who they were when she was in a black out during several of the episodes of coitus or as you guys love to say, fornication?
if she doesn’t know, Does she have to get a paternity test and hold up her procedure?
I kid, I kid, but only because it’s irrelevant. Because my answer is no no a zillion times no.
I mean- Do you ask anybody permission for any fucking thing in the world you do that involved your body?
No? Then that is my answer for all women everywhere also, no. and no and no and no, in case you didn’t catch that the first time.
If she is clear what she wants I don’t even think she should tell the sperm doner, assuming she knows who it is. What good would that do anybody, no good.
If she choose to make a decision in consultation with the sperm doner that’s her business, but this word permission is disgusting, sexist and more disgusting. Women do not need permission from men for SHIT.
@relaxolgy - something I just brought up under a LONG list of potential hypotheticals. dogmatic anti-choice people refuse to think anything though
@pb49r - Of course IF it was an act between two who are in a marriage relationship (or headed in that direction).
That’s a pretty big IF right there, more often the male avoiding it over the female avoiding it anyway, when people are super young, as so many of these young women are.
@monkeytreehugger - how come these people don’t think things through like you’re doing?
@Im_Amelia - Hooray for people who think things through!
What if it’s a one night stand and you don’t know who the dad is? No…I don’t think that the sperm donor should have a say. I think if you’re in a relationship that you should talk it over with them, but I don’t think their permission should be required to get the procedure done.
So, what happens when the man says he wants the woman to have an abortion but the woman wants to carry the child? Because we’ve now walked out onto a slippery slope where it’s the man who gets to decide. Men who don’t want to father a child should just get used to wearing two condoms every time they have sex.
Heck yes!
It takes two to tango! Not unless the woman’s pregnancy was the result of rape or one night stand (where she has no idea who the father is).
@MyTwoCentss - I agree!
One of my cousins had a girlfriend who got pregnant by him when they were just out of high school.
He did not know that she was pregnant but later she told him that she had gotten an abortion. He wrote a college essay about the experience and described how it tore him apart to look at children now and to imagine what his own child would have looked like.
I am sure that he is still dealing with the grief today.
Men should have a say in this and should have to sign off on the process. If they are entitled to legal rights after the baby is born, why should they not be entitled to legal rights as a BABY in the womb.
I don’t think women should have to ask permission, but I also believe it should be a decision between the two of them within their relationship, but as far as laws go, you have to keep special circumstances in mind.
NO. Opinion, yes. Permission, no.
No. I have two children from two different women, and I love my kids.
Until it’s obvious I’m going to be a father it’s none of my business.
unless a woman wants help from me, that is, then I will help however she wants, I have kids and I know they changed their mothers lives 100 percent in every way, shape and form. They changed my life in ways that I had a lot more control over, compared to a woman.
It’s a woman’s choice and decision 100 percent.
@PrincessVictoria_2004 - There’s an option you seem to have forgot which is after a woman makes her own decision and doesn’t tell a man, it’s selfish/stupid to tell a man after it’s too late. What in the heck is the point of that? Sounds like manipulation. That’s a whole different thing all together, that’s just taking a chance on trying to hurt somebody for no reason.
After a woman makes her own decision which I say she should get to do if she wants, she shouldn’t go around being a mind fucker. But just because a woman does decide to be a mind fucker, that’s not a good enough reason to punish other women by forcing them to ask anybodies permission about what to do with their own bodies.
Absolutely not! Whether it took two to make them or not, half Of the men run at the first sight. Each human has their own right to mAke a decision. We are no longer slaves, racially or sexually. Republicans need to grab a chair take a deep breath and sit all the way the fuck down. This is absolutely ridiculous, just another way a man is trying to make a woman his property.
@Jenny_Wren - You must have a very unique definition of ‘red herrings’ because the way you’re using it here doesn’t make sense.
Then women should relinquish all rights and expectations regarding the father of any child they should choose to carry, given the majority answer. That’s the only fair way to handle it.
@Bastetwitch - In what way is what the court system inflicts on fathers not considered financial slavery?
@striemmy - I’m not saying that its not a double standard, nor am I saying its any one persons fault. I’m simply saying it is very 1860′s to ask a man’s permission to do something with your own body. And if the woman was raped? Are we supposed to track the rapist down and ask for permission? Out of all of the calls for things women should and shouldn’t do, rape never seems to be part of the equation. Just because you don’t mention it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Republicans seem to have trouble with two things. SepAration of church and state and missing the inner details. Maybe we should spend time on that instead of limiting women’s rights hmm?
the obvious hypocrisy is that in no way would a pro-lifer approve of a man forcing a woman to have an abortion. it’s kind of pathetic that men’s parental rights have been co-opted. i fully support men being allowed to sign away all parental rights and not be forced to pay child support.
@Bastetwitch - If you’re acknowledging that there is a double standard then you’re also admitting that what exists is neither fair nor rational. If you don’t approve of the proposed solution then come up with a better one, but the current circumstances are unacceptable. I think the lack of the acknowledgement of rape there would make a good counter balance for every instance in history where a woman has wrongly accused a man of rape and gotten away with it because of our incessantly biased system. Somewhere between that and the entirely unbalanced results of cases deciding paternal custody and child support. I think so many woman are grossly against this particular solution is that they are at a privilege in this matter currently and, as with all privileged groups, would prefer to maintain that status and will defend that point with any and all ill logic that suits them.
@striemmy - I love how you took a entire shpeal on how rape is never mentioned, but once I mention it you turn it right around to protect the men. It obvious that you are very close minded in your ways and it would be useless to argue, so instead I’ll leave you with this parting comment. Think of a woman who is close to you and then go tell her that she needs permission from a man to do something with her body, and see if she doesn’t slap the skin off your bones. Enjoy the rest of your Saturday, because I surely will enjoy mine.
@Bastetwitch - Protect the men because we require protecting. I’ve got a friend right now who’s a slave for the next 17.5 years because he got drunk one night and some girl decided to take advantage of him! I have another friend who’s child recently turned two, who he has been taking care of almost exclusively and who, now that the child has developed some stronger facial features, he isn’t entirely certain of his paternity anymore but is terrified to get the blood test to get an answer because of the relationship he’s developed with that child. Women do some horrible shit sometimes, but it’s men who get the image of being animals while women enjoy the luxury of being dainty flowers.
How about you go and tell any man in your life that if by any circumstances, through his consent or not and without proof, if a child is conceived that can be proven by blood test to be his that he’ll be a slave to not only that child but the whims of the oft emotionally and mentally unstable mother for that child’s life through legal adulthood with absolutely no legal recourse and will be looked at in a bad moral and legal light should he shirk that mountain of responsibility placed on him. How about you tell him that they’ll put him in jail on the word of a woman that she raped him even if they just had sex? Tell them this is the system you want to continue to live in, but despite that you still “love” them.
@Bastetwitch - Oh and when you’re done telling him that, remind him that if he were to tell you the reverse you would slap the shit out of him, but he’ll go to jail for laying an unkind finger on you. Don’t you dare forget that part.
@striemmy - You’re friend got drunk one night but its the girl who took advantage? There’s your double standard. Say hi!
@Bastetwitch - You’re an idiot. He got blackout intoxicated. He wasn’t the one who initiated the encounter nor was he an active participant.
Yeah, thanks for pushing my point. Say hello to the double standard that he now has to care for a child that he didn’t want and could not compel a woman to abort it and is now responsible for, despite being taken advantage of, but which she could have aborted at any time, with or against his wishes. And on that note, may anyone whom should be lucky as to impregnate you and decide not to want the baby against your wishes have the forethought to push you down a flight of stairs and deliver a quick kick to the uterus. You enjoy your weekend. ^_^
@MyTwoCentss - You ignored half of my comment – does that mean you’re in agreement that when the natural process of aging makes a man incapable of getting an erection he should just stop having sex? Men can make the decision of whether or not to abort when they can get pregnant and go through labor. If men don’t want to have children then they should take some damn responsibility and use condoms, get a vasectomy, or abstain from sex. If the man wants to have a child then he should take the responsibility to get to know a woman and be in an actual relationship with her before having sex. See that? It plays both ways. Don’t tell me this isn’t a war on women because it most certainly is. Whenever the issue of abortion comes up it’s always the woman’s fault she got pregnant, it’s always the woman who “should have kept her legs closed” – the man’s ability to use a condom or abstain never even comes up, like he had no part in the woman getting pregnant. Fetuses aren’t granted personhood until they are out of the womb, until then, it’s the woman’s body and that makes it the woman’s choice.
@Melissa___Dawn - Or they can deliver a short push down a long staircase. Or take a baseball bat to the stomach. Or get her with chloroform and a wire hanger. Listen, we got options hun
@striemmy - was he drugged? Did someone force him to drink so much he couldn’t control his actions? No? Then suck it up and deal with the consequences, and now your just petty, you’ve resorted to name calling.
@striemmy - Followed your conversation on here with someone else – for the record, I completely agree that the system of parental custody/child support is totally biased. I don’t think that requiring a woman to get permission from a man to have an abortion is the answer, but I do agree that the system needs to change.
@Bastetwitch - You’ve got to be kidding me! Do you know how long women have had to fight against that bias?!? You’re saying he got drunk so it’s his fault he was raped! Do you stand on the same principle when it happens to a woman? If someone does not give consent to having sex it simply does not matter whether it was the man or the woman, it’s still rape.
I’m not saying that its his fault he got raped. And now this conversation and my words have gotten construed way beyond saving. I’m simply stating that women shouldn’t have to ask men’s permission. I’m saying that when republicans come up with these ridiculous I thinks, they should take into consideration that rape is a factor and that women are independent creatures and that we didn’t suddenly take a trip to the 1800′s. Which is what I was stating in the first place, I’m done with this topic because obviously I am being misunderstood and I don’t have the patience to calmly explain myself. Good day, and may we meet again on another topic and perhaps to agree.
Eventually we will realize that these entire conversations are pointless.
The discussion about what to do in the event of conception (AND IT WILL HAPPEN, OK? Sex is a reproductive function. It feeling good is only a mechanism to get you to do it. It.Makes.Babies.) should happen BEFORE you start having sex with someone. Period.
If you’re in a relationship and you don’t take these hugely serious issues into account then the answer is obvious: Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a conception be permitted.
I dont agree with abortion but Alan can suck a cock a big fat cock.
Only between married couples could I see that being a bit logical. Other than that, it’s completely up to her to keep it. And yes, it may be unfair for the male in question, but he risked that by having sex with her to begin with– it’s unfair to the CHILD, not the woman, if he didn’t partake in helping raising the child.
Well I think they ought to talk about it at least.
@NewDog2 - You are right, but this happens very often.When a woman decides that she wants to sleep with that man knowing that the consequence could be pregnancy, she should also know that his feelings and hopes for his child are important too.
@Melissa___Dawn - Wow – so are you saying that you’re okay with an abortion even up to the day before the due date or something?! If so – that’s outrageous. Most pro-choicers are against abortion at a certain point (usualy 20 weeks) because the infant is viable outside the womb AND it has been proven their nervous system works allowing them to feel PAIN.
No, I ignored half of your comment because I got distracted & lost my train of thought. I also didn’t have the patience for it all as I felt you were baiting me into an argument. However, I’ll give it a shot.
Men sometimes don’t “naturally” lose their ability to obtain an erection. Sometimes it’s due to heart issues, other medical issues and/or medications they’re taking. Which means it wasn’t nature that did it (I don’t consider bad health “nature” I consider that back luck). So they deserve to have those meds to fix it. And they are NOT given out like candy as you suggest. They are SOOO much more than birth control at about $9 PER PILL even with insurance.
Furthermore – who in the world says it is ONLY the woman’s fault? Ever heard the phrase it takes two? I’m one of those “crazy” conservative Christians who believe in equality – which means that men are equally responsible in creating life and as such are equally responsible in decision making regarding said life. (Deciding to adopt child out or raising said child.)
I most certainly plan to tell my son that he had most definitely better do all he can to wait until marriage because otherwise there are SO many consequences (STDs, HIV/AIDS, unplanned pregnancy, emotional effects in the relationship, possibly dealing with the turmoil of girlfriend killing his child in an abortion, possibly having to change future plans undesirably to take care of his child as is his responsibility, forever tied to a psycho girlfriend due to having a child, etc, etc). Furthermore, only HE is responsible for his actions. If his girlfriend comes onto him for sex, he can say no. Hopefully he’ll be more of a gentleman to go after her for it, but we’re all human & make mistakes. If that happens, well he only has himself to blame for not controlling himself.
I plan to teach my daughter the SAME exact thing. Only, I plan to teach her that people screw up & make mistakes. So if her boyfriend decides to pursue a physical relationship – SHE is ultimately responsible for what happens to her life. If she gives in, then she has to accept responsibility for not saying no. If SHE pursues it – well I’d be plenty disappointed. I wouldn’t shame her for it, that’s ridiculous & wouldn’t help a damned thing.
So basically both parties are 100% at fault for their own part.
I never said I was okay with an abortion up to the day before the due date – I personally wouldn’t do that, but I am only me and it’s not my place to tell women they can’t have abortions.
You do realize that an ailing heart or any other medical condition due to aging is indeed a friggin’ natural process, right?!?!? You can call it “bad luck” all you want, but it’s still a natural aging process. So it’s so important that men keep getting laid even when nature decides to interfere with the equipment? Yet we expect women to keep their legs closed.
Who says it’s the woman’s fault? Every debate I’ve ever been involved in over abortion it invariably comes down to people saying the woman should have kept her legs closed and I have never personally seen anyway say the man should have kept it in his pants or put on a condom.
From what you’ve said, it sounds like you have no intention to teach your children about condoms or any other form of birth control. You’re just going to tell them not to do it and that if they do have sex they will have to be responsible for any consequences that might happen. I hope you can live with yourself if your child ends up with herpes or AIDS because you failed to teach them that using condoms is being responsible. You have a lot of hope riding on your kids just “saying no” even though you fully admit they’re human and make mistakes – but of course far better to let them suffer the consequences of an STD or unwanted pregnancy than to teach them to use condoms and birth control responsibly.
@NewDog2 - Red herring, in philosophical use, is in reference to ”an attempt to divert attention from the crux of an argument by introduction of
anecdote, irrelevant detail, subsidiary facts, tangential references, and the
like.”
I saw a lot of people throwing out details like “Of course it doesn’t matter that the father wants the child, it’s HER body!” The reason that doesn’t matter in this specific argument, is that it is just as equally the father’s child, biologically. Just because the child happens to be inside the mother doesn’t make his rights over his flesh and blood any less valid. People don’t like this fact, so they throw out irrelevent facts to try to make it seem invalid. It’s pretty immoveable, though, that if any parent wants to protect his/her child, it shouldn’t matter that one is the father.
Unless a mother has more a right over her child than the father does for some reason. Which, there is no biological reason to assume such.
in my opinion he speaks very good sense. i don’t believe you should have to get permission to have an abortion as it is your body, however i do believe if a man does not want to be part of a babies life, they shouldn’t be made to give anything and feel like they’re being judged. like he said, it’s double standards.
@phoebester - It turned out better for his father than for her. Until about 6 months ago, she was still a crackwhore who had given up four children. I didn’t give my opinion to speak for everyone OR to solve a national debate, only to give another perspective on getting the father’s permission. I’m probably REALLY going to piss some people off by saying that if a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, it’s her responsibility to make sure she doesn’t. (rape cases aside, of course) My FIL didn’t even know she was pregnant until he tried to break up with her (she’s psychotic among other things) and then she started talking about aborting the baby. All I was saying is that I’m sure there are cases when the father might want the baby and the mother doesn’t. If I were the father, I’d like to have a chance to raise the child I created. And yeah, carrying a child and giving birth are difficult (I’ve had two children so I know) But it’s nine months and you’re done. What is that compared to a life-time of fatherhood for someone who wants a child? I don’t agree with the phrasing “getting permission” but I certainly think that the father’s opinion should count for something when considering his own child’s life.
@Maverick83 - You have a point.
@Theophilus166 - Well, yes since the eggs are outside the eagle’s body, that makes perfect sense.
@striemmy – Your friend who was raped should have gone to authorities right away. Women seeking abortions aren’t responsible for your friend’s troubles. It’s no secret that women can take advantage of drunk men as easily as men can of women, but until men start reporting it as a crime, what can anybody do about it legally speaking? (I had a friend who this happened to but luckily she didn’t get pregnant. He was kinda messed up by it but wouldn’t report it.)
As to your other friend, well perhaps he should have kept his wiener in his pants or put it into better quality women if he didn’t want to raise a child by himself! Isn’t that what some people enjoy telling women?
@Jenny_Wren - Uh, yeah a woman has more rights over what is inside her own body! If you want to be silly about it, then possession is 9/10ths of the law, blah blah. After the child is born, of course both parents have legal rights to that child. But until the child is born, the man isn’t a father, he has no rights.
@RazielV - If men could get pregnant, you bet your sweet ass you men would not allow the mother any say at all in what happens to your body. It is simply and only about what goes on in a woman’s body is her issue and decision alone. Legal abortion isn’t some kind of special right. Men too get to decide what happens to their own body, except in circumcision. So, instead of shifting control of women from not letting them have abortions to wanting to allow men to opt out, perhaps you should fight for male infant bodily integrity. Because abortion is all about rights to our own bodies.
@TiredSoVeryTired -
I want to assure you that I definitely see what you mean. It would be hard to carry a child if you didn’t want to–and I do not know if I can be hard and fast about circumstances. There are so many different circumstances that could surround a pregnancy, and it is hard to make a rule that could hurt someone, or someone(s). I do see the interest in keeping women free from the possible control of a man, or anyone at all.
But, the reason I think that this could be a good idea is not because I want women to be controlled. It is because I don’t believe a woman should have sole control over a father’s child. It’s more to give freedom to the father in this circumstance, so that his hands aren’t tied if he really wants to take care of his child, even if the mother doesn’t want to once the child is born. I would feel there should be some justice if a father who desperately wanted his child to live couldn’t do anything at all to save his child and take care of her, even without the mother’s future help.
I know this goes without saying, but a child is not possible unless there is a father, too. It is just as much his child as the woman’s, as it is both their flesh and blood. This cannot be denied. Whether or not it would be inconvenient for either party does not change that fact. Convenience is not the deciding factor on what is right and wrong, or what is or is not reality. A father is a father, a mother is a mother, no matter the circumstance. Thus, the father should have say over what happens to his child.
The placement of the child–inside the mother or out–does not change the fact that it is equally the father’s child, that it is equally his offspring.
People will certainly try to deny this simply fact…which frightens me, for what very intelligent people are willing to give into for the sake of convenience and pride.
I am not interested in discussing this further, because people are not interested in truth. They are interested in agendas, and maintaining “rights”, over maintaining what is right. There is a difference.
@Jenny_Wren - When a woman is pregnant it is not about her having control over the father’s child! It is about her having control over her own body. It is sad when a man wants to be a father to a child and the mother chooses abortion, no doubt! But men do not and should not have the final say in what a woman decides for her own body! That is between the woman and her doctor. No man has that right! It is not a right! Don’t lose sight of that! It used to be men had complete control over everything a woman did, let’s not give them back control of our own bodies, lest the next thing you know women aren’t capable of voting again.
Its called chioce and its never an easyone like people make it out to be
Why should the man be liable for child support (at least anything more than 1/2 the actual cost of raising the child) if he isn’t aware that he is the father, or offers to pay for at least half the cost of an abortion (if he is aware of being the father) and the mother refuses to have an abortion? They both took the risk of her getting pregnant, but the choice to have the baby is strictly hers under the law in our society, so the costs of having a baby should be at least half hers, no matter what if they are not still a couple (married or otherwise) during the child’s life.
In the cases where couples enjoy sex and use one or more birth control methods religiously, the phrase, “No good deed goes unpunished.”, often applies when they end up making a baby despite their precautions.
Sadly, in today’s Western societies, the kids who end up growing up with a mother who actually needs child support often have (biological) fathers who can’t or choose not to hold the kind of job that would allow them to support themselves and pay child support. The question that often seems obvious after the fact is why did a particular, normally responsible woman choose to get knocked up by some loser she doesn’t know well at all (except in the Biblical sense) and then expect to collect child support as she was entitled to it? (We’re not discussing the rare cases of pregnancy that result from rape, and any sensible woman would certainly consider an abortion in such cases and the law should make the rapist pay for it in addition to serving hard time if he is caught and convicted.)
This is getting off the main point, but is not really much of a digression: The law in our society ought to reflect that consenting adults often have sex for fun with little if any intention of making a baby, as is evidenced by the large number of people who use at least one method of contraception that is almost (but not quite) 100% effective for any given act of fornication. The problem is that even methods that are 99% effective by themselves still have a 1% chance times the ordinary likelihood of that particular couple conceiving during sex of making the woman pregnant. In other words, there are some couples who seem to make babies just by looking at each other… The relatively recent introduction of “morning after” pills, especially if they become more efficacious with fewer possible adverse side effects might go a long way to reducing abortion to an option that is considered only when rape, medical complications, and/or a relationship gone seriously awry become a significant factor. It makes no sense for so many people to consider abortion a form of default birth control.
“Permission” sounds childish and degrading to women. I think the guy should have a say in the situation, but asking for permission is a bit too much.
@ApocalypseSoon - There are some women who are raped that prefer to carry the child and put the baby up for adoption. Personally I feel that rapists should pay more than just with jail time, perhaps with castration but then we’d run into the problem of angry ex-girlfriends yelling rape, etc…. (that was meant more as a joke than anything, btw) But seriously, I do like your statement “It makes no sense for so many people to consider abortion a form of default birth control.” There are so many couples who can’t have children who would gladly adopt a baby regardless of the circumstances of conception. My aunt had a private adoption when she was raped and left the new parents with a letter for the child after he was grown. He later contacted us. It was great to get to know him.
If a woman makes me a huge dinner, should I seek her council about when I can take a dump?
Whatnhe is saying is that it is not right for a woman to decide to have a child against the father’s wishes and then force him to pay child support when he want her to get an abortion; but then to turn around and abort the child when the father wants to keep it.
It is a double standard. If the child is born then the mother can coerce the father to pay child support for his child, but ifnthe mother wants an abortion then it is her body and none of thenfather’s business. That’s not cool. I think if a fath supports and abortion and the mother goesmagainst his wishes then he shoulndn’t have to pay for anything.
As a woman, I feel that yes, unless in the case of rape, the guy should be okay with it as well. If she wants to abort but he doesn’t, then he should be allowed to care for it, or at least allow it to go up for an adoption. But if the sex was consensual, then yes. THEY made the baby. It’s THEIR baby. It’s THEIR choice. As much as a woman may not want to carry it for 9 months knowing she doesn’t want it at the time, it’s only fair.
Ladies and gentlemen… THINK before you sleep willingly with another person. Birth control fails EVERY day. If you’re not ready for a possible pregnancy, you’re not ready for sex. There is no foolproof method. Just don’t do it. I know it’s scary. Trust me. I’m married and don’t feel ready for a baby yet, but still have sex with my husband. If I end up pregnant, I will keep it. I made the choice to aide in its creation. It’s not a “fetus” only, as people like to call it to feel less like they’re murdering a life form. It’s a baby, from the moment its created. You may view it differently, and that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. My opinion is people shouldn’t have sex unless they can manage the possibility of responsibility. Man or woman. Men, don’t go running the risk of impregnating girls you won’t stand through it with. Women, don’t run the risk. If you didn’t fear the risk, you wouldn’t need things like condoms and birth control. So, trust me. Be wise. Even if you don’t have a religious belief about it, even if you think it’s all about the personal choice… Don’t deny the fact that it’s a choice you have to be wise about. Thank you.
wtf, its up to the girl
FUCK what the guy has to say
he aint carrying the baby so why should he have a say!
wtf, its up to the girl
FUCK what the guy has to say
he aint carrying the baby so why should he have a say!
@juslitome - @juslitome - Well it’s also the baby’s body too.
@Cearce - Yes. Because she probably doesn’t want to go into the bathroom AFTER you. LOL
Oh boy…
I’m not sure permission is the right word, but yes I do believe it should be a decision between two people, since it was a decision between two people to have sex to begin with. But I don’t believe in abortion to begin with, its not right but rather something that should only be allowed in extreme circumstances.