March 26, 2012
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Fat Shame
Dickinson College held a conference dealing with the issue of “Fat Shame.”
The thinking is that young people are given an unrealistic picture of what they should look like.
The students were asked to sign pledges to not engage in “Fat Talk.” The concern is that women are ashamed of how they look based on false standards. Here is the link: Link
I guess some people can say it is a health issue.
Should a person feel shame if they are fat?
Comments (88)
Of course not.
Not shame, not proud. Just feel alive and all is good.
No, but they shouldn’t ignore aspects of their body.
I think that if some one is healthy for their specific body needs then, they shouldn’t feel guilty for not looking like a magazine cookie cut out. No matter their size.
Shame is a wonderful device for getting people to behave properly.
However, most people who are fat can’t help it, they are cursed with bad genes. Shaming people for something they have no control over is merely cruel and doesn’t accomplish anything.
No. No one should feel shame for what they look like.
To some extent, yes. I know that sounds harsh, but it’s with the caveat that it refers only to people who don’t want to be fat, but won’t motivate themselves to do what’s necessary (and within their medical ability) to do.
HOWEVER, people shouldn’t make overweight people feel shamed. It’s a personal, introspective thing.
If you don’t want to be that way, start doing something about it. If you don’t want to be that way, but refuse to do WHAT YOU CAN, then yeah, you should have just as much shame as the father who wants to give his kids a better life…while he’s sitting on the couch in front of the game instead of picking up an extra shift.
Self-loathing is not healthy.
@AgainstTheWind1 - Agreed
I’m surprised no one has said that its all their fault, and they should be ashamed. How can you not feel shame when you are fat? Regardless of your body condition, the entire world is always striving to make you thinner. Yes, I’m fat. But yes, I actually do have a terrible frame. Its huge, and so I can never look like those women who have a size 34 rib measurement. Those are the people who you think of when you think thin and fit. My ankles will never be small. Its impossible…and if I lose x amount of weight, I no longer have ankles, because my calves would be the same size as my ankles. I go to the doctor, and tell her my ankles, knees, and
wrists
hurt. You know what she says? Lose weight. HELLO, how does that help my wrists?
The entire world wants us to be thinner. I deal with it by excusing myself for being a “fat kid” (I’m not a kid, just a phrase). I’m not going to pretend that I can run as fast and as long as you, or whatever other endurance thing you want to compare me with. And thats why people feel shame. The world wants everyone to look the same.
@AgainstTheWind1 - I agree.
what about thin shame/healthy shame? many a times my roommate who is on the bigger side makes comments that make me feel ashamed to be on the lower end of the scale/healthy. sometimes I feel ugly b/c I’m healthy.
it’s not about “fat shame” or “thin shame” it’s about the lack of love some people have for their own bodies which they turn into hate on others.
imo. there will never be 100% satisfaction with your body. models, actresses, athletes, they’re all liars
If they eat like a pig yes.If they eat small amounts of food but just have a thyroid problem where the bodies metabolism doesn’t break the food down well,then no they shouldn’t.Problem is,nobody knows the whole story but that person.I can’t gain weight to save my life,it doesn’t matter what or how much I eat.Some people say I’m lucky,but being called stringbean or stilts or other skinny names all my life gets old.It can work both ways weither you are skinny or fat,it’s just a shame people who are an average weight for their height have to be so ugly to those who sometimes have no control over their weight when they don’t know the circumstances.They shouldn’t be ugly reguardless,but thats humanity….full of pride and I’m better than youism
Fat people are less than human and should be treated as such.
Mm, I’m not sure. I think if somebody is fat because of the choices they’ve made then yes. But really, what I’m trying to say is that we should only feel shame if it’s something we’re not content with. This isn’t a choice to be made by others. I, personally, having gained weight as a result of my carelessness, am very disappointed in myself. However, if somebody is perfectly fine with who they are then the decision to feel shame is up to them. If I have a friend who is overweight, I don’t feel shame for them, I don’t feel anything as long as they’re happy. If they’re only hurting themselves and have acknowledged it then it is my place to help them but otherwise as long as they’re happy with who they are who am I to judge? I don’t think any of this made sense.
It is also not worshiping Skinny or Skinny-Worship, but instead to try to be healthy. I wish in health class in HS we were taught things like how to eat better and how to exercise instead of just diseases and such. Also PE was a joke. Those exercises sucked and only for like 5-15 minutes.
@AgainstTheWind1 - You’re right!
Well this is touchy…
They need to be AWARE of their body issues, and work to bring them more into control. They should recognize how to dress their body type and perhaps be taking steps toward slimming down. A simple thing to do would be wear a pedometer. I know when I did, it helped me lose 5-10 lbs in 2 weeks alone!
Fact of the matter is, you don’t know someone’s story. You don’t know why they’re fat, skinny, or average. You don’t know if they made bad choices, good choices, or moderate ones. You don’t know if they’ve tried to make changes, haven’t, or just don’t care.
So if you don’t know, then making a judgement call about it seems absurd to me?
But I have personal experiences with this particular subject. I don’t judge someone for being skinny, so I would appreciate the same amount of respect, though, I don’t usually get it.
One of my favorite quotes: “Shame is not a catalyst for change; it is a paralytic. Anyone who has ever carried extreme personal shame knows this. Shame doesn’t make you stronger, nor does it help you to grow, or to be healthy, or to be sane. It keeps you in one place, very, very still.”
If it’s due to a health problem, get treated. Otherwise they are by choice. I’m hardly skinny so it’s not coming from a pile of bones. Yes they need to. Fat is not healthy and it’s not attractive. I had a baby 1 year ago and am working at least to try to lose the weight. Every day I go out in baggy clothes and long pants because I am ashamed of how big I still am. Maybe if it happened by more than myself I’d have more motivation to lose it.
Well if they are fat due to being lazy and doing nothing about it then I suppose they should feel some shame, but if they are fat because of health problems then no not at all.
@Insomnie – awesome comment
Not shame – shame is too harsh. There are far worse things in life than being overweight after all. Still, they should be concerned about it and use that to try to better themselves… which is something we ALL should do in ALL aspects of our lives anyhow.
IMO, “fat talk” isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s only bad if you acknowledge the problem and do nothing except mope about it… OR, you go too far and think too much of it where it starts negatively affecting other areas of your life. I personally use “fat talk” as constructive criticism. If I see my gut protruding more in the mirror, yes, I feel crappy. But I use that as an indicator to watch what I’m stuffing my face with and to stop being so lazy by getting my butt to the gym. So, really, “fat talk” is just what you make of it.
@voicimessecrets - THIS
@voicimessecrets - Nice quote. Not true, though. Not for me.
I didn’t start making changes on some things until I realized I was ashamed of myself for not doing them sooner. Shame is a paralytic…to people who don’t expect better from themselves, or who don’t believe they’re capable.
But to the eagle soaring above the heavens, shame is what keeps him from landing simply because he’s fatigued.
Ha! People are fat – or not fat – for many different reasons!
Anybody who thinks that everyone has the same metabolism – and losing or gaining weight is easy – is sadly mistaken!
Up until I was about 30 – I could eat anything I wanted – all the time – and my weight never went past 145. After I was 30, I put on about 5 pounds every year – regardless of how much I ate or exercised.
I am sure many people have the metabolism I did when I was young all their lives. And others have different cases.
People tend to generalize from their own experience to others – this is a mistake – people are different – for many reasons.
The point is, this Dickinson College isn’t even really about people who are actually obese. It’s about people who are already normal, but feel pressure to be thinner. I see that as the bigger issue, as far as media standards are concerned. When anything above a small is called “fat,” we have problems.
As to the other issue, the best motivation for getting healthy is liking yourself and therefore wanting to be the best version of yourself you can be. That doesn’t mean you have to be content with where you are, but shame is something that imprisons people where they are. Liking yourself and feeling lovable as you are sets you free so you can improve.
Shame them? Well, I’m sure there is a whole list of negative behaviors we should be shaming first. So, not until we’re done with the bad people should we target people that don’t meet some stupid standard of beauty.
Dear Dan,
I haven’t even had a scale in my home for 30 years. After I lost about 30 pounds (I’m down to 155 with shoes on now, and up to 40 situps and 15 pushups a day!) I noticed I’m weighing myself so much, I should give into my more insideous humorous instincts and start a thinspo blog on Healthtracker (not it’s real name).
When I listen to the Voice of Reason, I hear some real interesting things. Here is the skinny, as it were. 1. Everything we eat, is, at some time in our lives, going to be bad for us. 2. Everything that we give up will all of sudden not only be not bad for us, but good for us, and will all of a sudden be more expensive down at the local Food 4 Less. 3. Shame, like Guilt, and some of those other deadlies and not so deadlies, are simply dictums, sort of like philosophy and religion, that don’t mean anything in the long run. We shouldn’t be ashamed of anything we are or do. (That isn’t to say we shouldn’t deny the fact we might be about to do something really stupid which we may regret in the future, although the longer we life we should take pride in the fact that we do those things less.
Did I say “pride”.
Boy, I do miss writing comments on Xanga.
Maybe this time I’ll get at least as big a Xangalebrity status as you.
Or maybe not. I wrote an entry containing literature a couple of days ago.
I’m proud of the three comments I received.
Scratch that. I mean four.
I should be in bed, but at my age, you take pride in the fact that you use your time wisely.
Did I say pride? That was one of those deadlies, as well, if memory serves.
I’ve got an idea for a great parody blog entry. Perhaps tomorrow. Really have to get off the computer, and do something life affirming and good for me, like watching TV.
Michael F. Nyiri, poet ,philosopher, fool
@AgainstTheWind1 - At one point in my life, I used self-hatred as a motivation for physical change. I lost weight, but if I could, I would go back and undo it, changes and all. No matter what the results were, it wasn’t worth what I did to myself to get there. Bit-by-bit, I heaped so much shame and hatred on myself for the way I looked that I destroyed who I was internally and emotionally, and it ended up leaving me vulnerable to the ongoing health problems I have today (not eating disorder-related, just so I’m clear). I will never say that shame absolutely can’t work as a motivator; I still think it’s one to avoid at all costs because of its destructive side effects. As a Christian, my spiritual changes are motivated by Christ’s love for me, not condemnation. In the same way, I seek to pursue physical change out of love rather than condemnation. I know how destructive the other way was for me.
@Pickwick12 - I’d just limit my rebuttal to pointing out..
You’ve said “self-hatred”, “hatred”, and “condemnation” as synonyms for shame here…and that’s a heavier definition than I’m using when I say of “shame” that some is good.
Semantics, perhaps.
@AgainstTheWind1 - Granted.
I think it was when i moved to europe. But now when i find someone obesely overweight there is a stigma, if they are going to be from my mother country, 9/10 they are going to complain. Obesity is a sign of gluttony, yeah there are those who can’t help it, as far as I’ve heard but the number of those who can and don’t do anything but complain about diets, complain about walking, and procrastinate. I have no respect for.
Lost a friend to morbid obesity this week. I’d say that “fat acceptance” does more harm than good.
people should not feel shame about their bodies unless it lead to health problems.
The thing is..
Many women (I guess men can as well) tell themselves how they are so fat. Making the other people around then, though bigger, but not fat, feel fat.
I knew this one girl who always said she was fat (but never was..) and everyone got angry at her for it because she is making everyone else who is at a normal weight, feel like crap.
@HappeningsZ - THIS.
yes of course; fat people are worthless scum, they actually should be terminated, these stumbling blocks in human evolution.
@voicimessecrets - I love that quote! Perfect!
Do you know who said it?
@AgainstTheWind1 - Preach it!
I don’t like the “you’re so skinny.” type of comments any more than someone, who is obviously fat, who doesn’t like people pointing out how fat they are. *cue eyeroll and psha! disgusted face*
Excellent!
They should not feel shame.
I think it was more for people who are average weight who are used to seeing images of underweight people everywhere, and feel ashamed because they think those underweight people should be the standard. Though, when I think about it, if an obese person usually feels like killing herself because she is so ashamed of her body, I don’t see what harm feeling a little bit better about herself would do. If nothing else, her body weight would stay the same and she’d have a much easier time in the world. But more likely, it would actually help her lose weight. I don’t think anybody loses weight because they are ashamed. If that were the case, they would be thing by now. So I don’t really see any bad coming from this.
The girl in that picture isn’t “skinny,” but I can’t imagine she would be riddled with health problems because of her weight. She is also apparently gay or an ally haha.
@Thatslifekid - I fucking love pedometers! haha
What @AgainstTheWind1 said.
Yes.
@Xbeautifully_broken_downX - My thoughts exactly.
@Baseballchik138 - So people who become disabled, and “get fat” should be ASHAMED of it?
No…you’re probably going to say, “I didn’t mean people LIKE THAT…”
And then I will ask you how you can look at someone and KNOW how they got overweight? You have xray eyes? Maybe you’re Miss Cleo? Little girl, you just about gave yourself whiplash in your haste to judge.
Let’s hope it never happens to you.
Yes, we are given a unrealistic image of what we should look like to be “attractive”. That needs to stop but probably never will. Seriously, quit rewarding fat people with special treatment though. I see a health issue here. If your fat and its making you unhealthy and you want to change it then I hope you would. But if your happy with the way you look and don’t care about your health or you are healthy then you shouldn’t feel shame; be proud of who you are. Don’t worry about what others say or how you look. I mean, they want people to take a pledge… Saying they won’t engage in “fat talking” because it could hurt someones feelings due to the unrealistic images put out there making them ashamed…? Why does image have to matter with everything? I mean, isn’t this in a way just enabling the fat people even more by saying its okay to have bad health? You should be a ashamed for being a spineless, lazy piece of crap! Anyways, I can get behind those that are trying to help themselves by choosing a healthier lifestyle or have a medical condition but those who aren’t… I can’t. Obesity is a way of life okay… you want to cure it? PUT THE PEPSI AND POTATO CHIPS DOWN, GET OFF YOUR COUCH AND TAKE A FREAKING WALK!
Of course not. They should, however learn that the person that only matters in concern of their weight is themselves. Otherwise, if they try to spend the rest of their lives trying to make everyone else happy, they are never going to succeed. Simply trying ignore the problem like this “Fat Shame” Pledge is not going to work either. If the women (or men) are unhappy with their weight, they need to do a proactive change to do it; not sit around, complain and mope about it trying to seek sympathy while doing absolutely nothing to change it.
@Xbeautifully_broken_downX - it’s actually from an article about fat-shaming. http://www.xojane.com/issues/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
There’s so much more to worry about that this really shouldn’t take priority over everything else. You should be concerned with your own health though, within a reasonable limit as all things should be.
I think its a good idea, especially on college campuses, to have encouraging programs like this.
no, its not a health issue.
you will never be able to tell someone’s health by looking at them.its called concern trolling when you tell someone you’re worried about their health. its not yours to be concerned about, and you’re not concerned you’re uncomfortable with having to see fat when you’re told it shouldn’t exist.so, no, they shouldn’t feel shame. people should feel shame for shaming people at all.
@RealistFantasies - You can never tell the entire detailed history of someone’s health with just a glance, but you can pick up certain cues and get a rough idea. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1689653/pdf/10097394.pdf
Obviously though, concern trolling is bad, but it is inaccurate to say you can’t pick up ANY health cues at all from a mere visual inspection. Can those cues be inaccurate? Sometimes. But are they accurate? Yes, a lot of times they can be pretty indicative of someone’s overall health. It’s mother nature’s way of making the best with limited info. It’s also the reason why our species selected increased muscle mass in male-bodies, for example, and the distinctive secondary sexual characteristics found in female-bodies.
I’m actually a well-built guy, and I worked hard to get that way. Should I feel shame for looking “unrealistic?” I refuse to accept fat as the norm. By the way, that girl doesn’t even look fat. -_-;
Shame society – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society
@QuantumStorm - i should have phrased that better:
weight/physical aspects are not an indicator of health habits.someone can gives physical cues of being unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean you know why or can judge them based on those cues.
@Kazydai@mancouch - thats the point though, she doesn’t look fat but will still be told she is, because she doesn’t fit the societal stick figure expectation of women, even if that expectation isn’t realistic in the least.
@RealistFantasies - Physical aspects can be indicators of health, and there is evidence to back up that claim. Is it always accurate? Of course not – but it developed as an efficient way to handle a limited amount of sensory information (since obviously we didn’t evolve with our entire, detailed medical history printed on our foreheads, hahaha).
There will always be exceptions to the rule, and there are certain things that may not be readily apparent from a physical inspection – but again, visual cues developed as a sufficient, not perfect, way of analyzing health.
I think in our society, we would be better-served if, rather than focusing on “fat acceptance” or “thinspo”, we focused more on healthy eating and exercising habits. But as long as women view marriage as the primary means by which to secure and feed their biological instincts, it probably won’t happen.
@QuantumStorm - but what i mean is, no matter if you can tell someone is unhealthy, you can’t tell if that health issue is based on habit or an actual disorder/uncontrolled problem.
eating healthy and exercising=/=being healthy.women gain weight due to cysts and cysts aren’t “healthy” but aren’t defined by habits. they’re still going to be judged for being overweight despite not having control over it, and thats only one example.i don’t really know how to clarify what I’m trying to say, sorry.
@RealistFantasies - The chances of it being a disorder or a problem that is uncontrollable via eating healthy/exercising is slim. And as for cysts, that’s a potential health issue too depending on how those cysts develop and progress, so it does play into the visual cues thing.
But I think I see where you’re going in that people shouldn’t be openly mocked/ridiculed for physical aspects, and that I agree with.
@RealistFantasies - I believe that we should stop saying that being fat is bad, but I don’t think we shoul start saying that it’s good, either, of that makes sense. Whatever the reason, I don’t think being proud of your fatness is the right way to go. I dunno, being proud of having cysts, thyroid conditions, or an bad eating habits just seems weird to me. I don’t mean to sound like an asshole. It’s just that I was fat once. I never blamed it anything but my ba eating habits, though because that’s what it was. I worked on it and exercised and I got better. So from that experience, I hate it when people come up with excuses. Maybe it’s right, maybe not. Just my opinion.
Shame no.
Guilt yes.
@Kazydai@mancouch - i think its unfair to say someone shouldn’t be proud of who they are though, because society says it looks wrong.
saying “fat is good” is not the same as saying “I’m proud of myself despite being fat.”
I would never shame anyone for being fat, but I’m also totally unsympathetic towards fat people who do nothing to change their lifestyle/diet/exercise habits and just keep on complaining. I don’t like the weight I’m at either, but I make an effort to eat less shit and get more exercise to combat it.
@RealistFantasies - I agree. “I’m proud DESPITE” is one thing. I just don’t think people should say “I’m proud OF”.
@Kazydai@mancouch - the same could be said about deformities, sexuality, and anything else anyone doesn’t agree with.
why is this any different, or any more of someone else’ concern?
@RealistFantasies - The reason why fatness gets a harder rap is that unlike congenital defects or sexual identity, it’s more often due to the personal lifestyle choices made. No one chooses to be born with a defect, but they can exercise more control over things like being overweight. Again, not justifying fat-shaming, but that’s why people have a lower tolerance for things like the “fat acceptance” movements.
@galadrial - you need to take a breath and reread what I said. I said feeling shame was entirely up to the individual.
@voicimessecrets - I agree with you.
The thing is that it’s not about being ashamed or proud of being fat. It’s about the overall health of the person, I just ignore todays standards of body size, in my book and that of my nutritionist, I’m in the right track.
@wildchildofthebluemoon - Eh, if a doctor is telling you to lose weight, you should listen. While it’s true you don’t walk on your wrists, you DO use your wrists to pull yourself up. You also probably lean on your wrists from time to time. Being overweight can affect your joints–all of them. Don’t tell yourself that the world is against you and everyone needs to look the same. That’s simply not true. It is true, however, that doctors get medical degrees and are assumed experts in their fields. As much as I hate getting multiple pap smears in a year, the doctor tells me I have cysts and I listen to her. Blaming other people would be like smokers getting mad that they’re raising their risk of cancer.
Here’s the thing:
If you’re already shamed of your weight, you’re going to believe the first thing someone says about it.If you’re not already ashamed, then you probably won’t care no matter what people say.
I don’t think that anyone should be ashamed of being fat, however they do need to take health into consideration. Some people can be “chunky” and not be unhealthy. Some people are skinny and horribly unhealthy. Coming from a woman who has struggled with weight all my life, I have been 200+ pounds and I have been so skinny you can see my sternum. I think that as long as you are physically healthy, your weight should never be anything to be ashamed of. Some people look horribly scrawny at 140 pounds (like me) and some people can be 200+ pounds and look great (also me.)
I think anyone who thinks fat people should feel ashamed for the fact should be ashamed, themselves.
Are you ashamed, Dan?
the girl in the picture is beautiful. if that is what fat is, then i say “girls, eat more pizza!”
ideally, it shouldn’t matter.
realistically, yeah, they’re going to feel shame to some extent.
@gobdog - This was about shame, not about if I should listen to my doctor or not. If I need to lose weight, I need to…but if I tell the doctor that I think I might have a hairline fracture and she doesn’t do anything, losing weight isn’t going to help me. And no one should assume ANYONE knows everything, because no one knows everything. Yes, doctors are trained and undergo years of training but there’s a reason they call it a
practice.
And thats why people get second opinions. Who knows, maybe your cysts aren’t as bad as the doctor says, and he/she just wants your money? Anyway, the point of my comment was that
how can someone not feel shame about being overweight, when everyone is telling you that you should.
@AgainstTheWind1 - I think you have a great perspective on this, and you are totally right!
For me, it works out to: If they are the way they are, either genetics or habits put them there…. If it’s genetics, whatever will be, will be; and by what right do I have to criticize this…. If they are because of habit, I don’t verbalize, and try, also to keep a neutral countenance when dealing with the issue at hand…. I am more of an observer of situation, action as necessary, but whatever my private thoughts….?? (the mystery continues…
) Peace
No, I would hope that nobody would have to feel ashamed for what they look like.
No, but we do. In our society it is akin to worthlessness.
holy crap, not everyone who isn’t thin is unhealthy; when will people understand this??? it is SO FRUSTRATING that half of these comments are saying “no, they shouldn’t hate themselves, BUT they should be aware of the issues that come with being bigger.” NOT EVERYONE WHO IS BIGGER HAS HEALTH ISSUES. THEY ARE JUST BIGGER. christ
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