Tuesday, 05 March 2013

  • Let Her Die

    One big story in the news is how a retirement home nurse let an elderly woman die without performing CPR.  The 911 operator pleaded with the nurse to save the woman.  She asked, "Is there anybody that's willing to help this lady and not let her die?"

    The nurse responded "No at this time."

    The policy of the retirement home is that 911 should be called instead of an attempt to save the patient.  Here is the link:  Link



    If the above woman was dying, would you perfom CPR?

                                                                                              

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Comments (93)

  • Thatslifekid

    Yup. I always have my mask with me. 
  • Celestial_Teapot

    Yes.
  • anth0nyc
    sure - why not?

    is that the lady who passed away?
  • Celestial_Teapot

    @anth0nyc - Because even old ladies can have HIV or some other incurable STD.
  • TrappedFantasy

    No. Maybe that old woman wanted to die. The law has no right in these matters, this is a humanity issue.
  • poetically_truthful

    I don't know cpr. :(
  • Cares2theWind@datingish

    i'd be hesitant. most of the very aged i've met are generally waiting for their turn to leave this world. i'd be more likely to hold her hand and comfort her.
  • saintvi

    Yes, but I would be afraid of breaking a bone because she looks so frail.

    I wonder if that policy is because they are afraid of being sued if they hurt someone while trying to save them. If so, they're probably going to be rethinking that after the almost certain lawsuit coming their way. Especially if any of the staff who were present are CPR certified and didn't do anything.

  • Colorsofthenight

    If she wanted me to.
  • TheOneWhoSaysItAll

    I'm certified in CPR, so i think by law i have to... But i don't remember exactly but even if i didn't have to by law, i still would!
  • xDark_horizonx
    In the state of California anyone who begins to perform CPR (especially those licensed) become legally liable for the person they are aiding and must continue performing CPR until paramedics arrive even if the person is clearly dead, so I can understand why the nursing home supports not starting CPR in the first place.
    And in a non liability state I would perform CPR but not here.
  • EmilyandAtticus

    Yes. I heard about this, the 911 operator was begging her to do it. Disgusting. :(
  • FallenReign

    I think it depends on the person--I'm assuming the nurses are at least a bit familiar with the patients individually. Maybe she was very sick, or very alone, and didn't have any interest in prolonging her life further. Maybe they live in a state with liability, like other people said. Maybe she was so physically frail that performing CPR would cause massive internal injuries. It's not really black and white. So maybe, maybe not. 
  • Rescued_by_grace

    Everyone deserves at least someone to try and save them.If I knew cpr,yes I would try to save her.
  • Shadowrunner81

    @EmilyandAtticus - Yes it was.

    A lawsuit or a life? This makes me not want to give CPR to the lawyers.
  • EmilyandAtticus

    @Shadowrunner81 - I have to agree with you there. 
  • Midnight_Masochist

    If the elderly woman had stated she didn't want to be resuscitated in the event of needing it, that would give me pause. But that aside, I guess what perplexes me is why a nurse would refuse. I guess I am a little naive in asking why you would become a nurse... Or any kind of health giver... If you wouldn't want to perform CPR on someone in need? 
  • VictoriousHearts
    @Midnight_Masochist - agree. Don't go into the health field if you aren't willing to help people.
  • Pure_Taint

    @Midnight_Masochist - From my understanding it was the nursing home's protocol. Anyone who breaks it would be fired. She was keeping her job and doing what she was told. The administration even issued a statement clarifying that it was their policy to wait for EMTs and not give aid.



    I can understand it. You're risking being fired and facing a lawsuit, on the off chance you manage to deliver CPR correctly and save them WITHOUT any complications. Those aren't good odds.
  • Its_PapaBear
    I have heard mixed comment on the news that she did not have a Do not resuscitate order on file but had verbal confirmation from the lady and her daughter. I do not know if I could stand by and watch her die.
  • TiredSoVeryTired

    Gee, can't we just let old people die anymore?  
  • Midnight_Masochist

    @Pure_Taint - Yeah, I get it. I'm just glad I don't work in a place that would force me to sit on my hands and watch someone slip away. HOWEVER, sounds like she was ready to go. In which case, I think she should have the right to make that choice for herself. 
  • PinkHoneysuckle
    Something sweet.

    I rarely use this word, but this is so much, "Bull," about nothing!  The person followed procedure, and I have not heard one news agency who has been able to tell me she was even trained in CPR. Secondly, CPR is new, so maybe I would have pressed on her chest gently to see if I could rouse her a little, but the over all effectiveness of CPR is around 40% even when done by the pros.  This is not a care setting we are speaking of, and most people in such a setting go there to get away from mask toting lunatics who even think CPR is about giving rescue breaths anymore.  I have not even taken the new course, for I no longer practice nursing; but leave your little old mask home heros and heroines, because the rescue breaths do a big bunch of nothing, but compressing the heart which you are going to get to by cracking that poor old soul's ribs under your hands may have bought her a day or two on life support.  I cannot imagine that somewhere in their admission to the facility that the patient or family was not told that resuscitation is not to be done in people's own homes.  That dining room was her dining room, and I am not seeing you bursting in her dining room when she keels over at dinner to break her ribs and induce horrible pain as the last thing that poor woman would enjoy.

    Whoever made a big old news story out of this ought to have to be the one who takes in to each news service the number of people murdered in the USA over a 24 hour period to show this country that we are in a crisis of violence instead of beating up on a poor care taker trying not to disturb everyone else who would have guest in the dining room by screaming, "Does anyone here know CPR?"  I helped on planes several times when physicians would not answer emergency calls to the back where someone was passed out and the airline was endeavoring to not panic an entire plane full of people, but please -- Again, this was no different than had she taken her dinner in her room.  I am growing older, and in my independent living setting, you better be really careful crashing some 87 year old woman's bones in front of me.

    I worked in a Hospice, and it is because of assanine people who wanted this woman resuscitated that some Hospices have gone to pleasing the public by allowing people to enter without DNRs.  I was a baccalaureate RN with two more years toward medical school, and our Hospice policy was no resuscitation.  I wish some good lawyer would step forth right now and help this poor woman who stood by that body doing what she was supposed to; and No,  we do not take our instructions from the telephone people who answer at 911, and it is not their job to instruct a health care worker or facility to do their job.  I would like to see that anxious CPR nervous Nelly in front of the courts for causing a good meaning person to be demoralized on national television.  It reminds me of the time a funeral home boy decided to tell me how to take care of the body before he got there, and I took care of the body, loved them, let their family sit in, and made them look as peaceful as possible, closing their eyes, for eyes do not always close, and people start looking fairly blue when oxygen all goes to the brain in a last ditch moment of self preservation; so I did what a Hospice nurse does and I was always willing to help the funeral home get the body on a tray bed, but there was no way in hell that I was going to do all of his tagging and labeling, for we were not a hospital;  We were a Hospice, the place where a pilgrim comes to rest when they are tired and ill, and I let that little creep have it when I have him a firm, "No," to his instructions, for I knew what every funeral home expected, and he was going to complain to every body but the president about me.  I had about five other patients to make feel, "At Home," that night, and I had to get death off of me, go in to rooms smiling and pretend that I had not known that person who went out the door.

    We need to come to terms with there is a time to live, and a time to die, and if you collapse in your apartment, or you have chosen to go to the dining room, then your family is lucky you did not have to go into a care setting.  I am seething that this made national news.  Anyone talked with some of the PTSD military today?

    That would be news.  Barbara Everett Heintz, "Pinkhoneysuckle," Amazon, Kindle, Create Space

  • Composing_Life

    if there were a DNR in place, then i would stay with her until the end. as far as the woman in the photo, it doesn't matter what her age or looks are. she is alive and if she is in my care, then to hell with the job. i would be pumping on that chest until the medics got there. that didn't come out right.....
  • korean_biyatch

    depends if she is a DNR code or not (do not resuscitate)

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