May 1, 2007
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Concealed Handguns
The Governor of Texas, Rick Perry, wants to make it possible for Texans to take their handguns anywhere in Texas. Currently concealed handguns are allowed in Texas. But guns are often banned from airports, hospitals, bars, courthouses, churches and schools.
Perry believes that allowing guns anywhere with no restrictions, will avoid the type of rampage that took place at Virginia Tech where 33 people were killed. Here is the link: Link
I can see how fewer deaths may have resulted at Virginia Tech if handguns were allowed everywhere. It only makes sense that one person could have stopped him. However, I wonder if allowing guns in schools may lead to more deaths overall.
Would allowing concealed handguns in schools, hospitals and churches lead to fewer deaths?
Comments (138)
I believe so.
-I win-
So the unbalanced student comes in, shoots someone. Check. Then another student with a gun shoots him to keep him from shooting anyone else. Check. One of the teachers walks in and sees the the second kid that just shot student number one, teacher freaks out, and shoots student number 2 who was doing ‘the right thing’….. I can imagine a million scenarios like this one. How does it make any sense in the long run? It’s like saying people can go over the speed limit as long as they have a drivers license.
Definately. One would think twice about doing things if you knew everyone around you was strapped. Plus, guns are the great equilizer. Even dear old Grandma can shoot you in the testicle if you try and rob her. I say go for it.
Wow, that’s really overdramatic and improbable.
I’m all for grandma shooting testicles for the proper cause.
I think there’s good reason why handguns aren’t allowed everywhere. I think they should keep things how they are and keep guns out of schools, churches, airports, hospitals, courthouses, etc. There’s just no reason for them to be there in the first place. Most of those places (except maybe the church) normally have armed security on staff (yes, most schools have an SRO or something of the like) so if something were to happen, there would be someone there who was trained to handle it and not someone who would be reacting emotionally. By that I mean that if there were a gun shot, someone untrained may just whip out their gun and fire without quite taking in the situation and taking the time to see who did it; security is specially trained in those types of situations. Also, what if they’re allowed in those places and, for instance, a person decides to take justice into their own hands at the courthouse or a doctor is unable to revive a patient and a grief-stricken, moment-of-insanity family member decides it’s the doctor’s fault and “avenges” the death.
I think overall there would be more deaths. There’s a reason the law is like this now and I think it should stay as it is; the only guns needed in those areas are on trained security officers – not civilians.
*I echo XxBareNakedxX.*
not exactly the best idea.
Also, for the people who read that and think I don’t realize this: yes, I know Texans can carry concealed weapons which can be a good thing for personal safety, but I do think there are some areas where guns shouldn’t be allowed by anyone except those trained to handle intense/chaotic situations.
Luke 22:36
36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Jesus said that we should arm ourselves.
Maybe. But I think some people just aren’t ready for that kind of responsibility.
I don’t know.. I’d be worried about angry outburts that usually result in fistfights now involving shootings.
Right, I can recall going out skating with friends, a few fights broke out. It resulted in the person getting mad, pulling out a handgun, and shooting into the crowd.
Luke 22:36
36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Jesus said that we should arm ourselves.
Posted 5/1/2007 8:45 AM by Zayin_michael
Are you sure that’s not taken out of context??
Right, you also have to take into account society in bible times was much different, LoL. If you want to be frank, anyone can use a bible verse to justify anything.
i think handguns should be kept out of those places…
you really don’t need a gun at church.
hospitals could be dangerous too.
and i really don’t think any type of gun in a school is a remotely intelligent idea.
Absolutely not.
I want to be the Governor of Texas!
I can picture may scenarios of what would happen if everyone could carry guns. People would get mad over something very minimal and start shooting each other saying they had just cause to do so.
The hangup in the Texas concealed carry law is the any-place-that-says-so addition to churches, school, places where alcohol is sold, and public buildings part. Almost every retail establishment has a no handguns policy sticker on the door.
I dont know if more guns really is the answer. And if it is, is the risk of more violence worth it?
It’s hard to say. It could go either way.
Here’s an idea: mental health evaluation as part of the gun-owning process.
That not a matter of wondering. Some of us live in States were concealed weapons have always been common. It is in only in recent history that they been banned in some places, such as schools.
These new laws have done no good at all, but gun laws are not about actually saving lives they are all about catering to the paranoid at the expense of everyone else. Some people have an irrational fear of weapons.
Handguns in a courtroom….no need for a trial…the irate family member can just shoot the offender.
I read the article. I can see that point of view. As long as they hit a checkpoint to make sure the “gun-toter” is legal and certified. To carry a gun, that is. Not certifiable! Of course, we migrate this idea and make Marijuana legal as well. I mean, people are gonna smoke it, right? There gonna find it one way or the other, right? Yeah.
Yes sir, there are pro’s and con’s to any debate. Guess that is what makes life … fun.
It is funny but Texas has this reputation as a wild west state regarding guns. But it is only fairly recently that they have allowed concealed weapons there at all and it is an extremely restive law compared to most. But like all the other States that have allowed concealed weapons to be generally available to the public. Crime rates dropped after the law was passed
Could be, could be not. I shall follow this story with interest in the coming months…
Note that this rule will probably only apply to those with concealed carry permits, yes? If they make sure that only mentally stable, criminal-record-free, fairly-level headed folk get concealed carry permits, I think that will go a long ways toward making the Gov’s theory work.
I still think that, either way, guns shouldn’t be allowed in courtrooms (except for the bailiff’s).
What is this? The Wild West?
And guns do not belong in a church.
“An armed society is a polite society” –Robert Heinlein
This idea works in certain settings. Small town. People know each other. People care about each other.
Once you reach a higher population densities where people do not know each other, you are filling a crowded room of sparklers with gunpowder.
Think about those times NYC cops shot someone (good and bad people) 50 times. Now imagine 10 people with guns, most with less training, less experience, and less control and what kind of chaos can result from that.
I might be for it if you had to go through some really extensive training.
I think that there is a possibility that large scale killings could be reduced, but I think that there is the potential for more murders.
Yes I do believe that there would be fewer deaths overall. Hypothetically speaking I’m much less likely to go on a rampage if I think the first person I aim at could pop me first.
I live in Texas and currently go to school there, and if they do allow things like that I would feel extremely unsafe. I mean fist fights break out over the most stupid stuff (girlfriends/boyfriends, drama, rivalries…w/e) , whats going to stop someone such as a teenager (yes, including myself) to over react (which happens alot) and bring a gun into a fight? I mean, even the thought of other people having guns won’t stop irrational actions, it just will widen the scale and hate. Keep guns out of all those places listed, its just begging for trouble.
Final thoughts:
In a fist fight at most you will get a broken bone
In a gun fight you will end up losing lives
Whatever happened to the zero tolerance zealots that expelled kids over butter knifes?
This poster put it so well I repost!
I think there’s good reason why handguns aren’t allowed everywhere. I think they should keep things how they are and keep guns out of schools, churches, airports, hospitals, courthouses, etc. There’s just no reason for them to be there in the first place. Most of those places (except maybe the church) normally have armed security on staff (yes, most schools have an SRO or something of the like) so if something were to happen, there would be someone there who was trained to handle it and not someone who would be reacting emotionally. By that I mean that if there were a gun shot, someone untrained may just whip out their gun and fire without quite taking in the situation and taking the time to see who did it; security is specially trained in those types of situations. Also, what if they’re allowed in those places and, for instance, a person decides to take justice into their own hands at the courthouse or a doctor is unable to revive a patient and a grief-stricken, moment-of-insanity family member decides it’s the doctor’s fault and “avenges” the death.
I think overall there would be more deaths. There’s a reason the law is like this now and I think it should stay as it is; the only guns needed in those areas are on trained security officers – not civilians.
Posted 5/1/2007 8:42 AM by XxBareNakedxX
In my opinion, it would lead to MORE death.
I think in a mass killing spree yes, it would be beneficial, but overall I think carrying guns into places like that would cause more deaths than prevent them. Especially in schools.
That governor should be shot.
Here’s an idea: mental health evaluation as part of the gun-owning process.
Posted 5/1/2007 8:57 AM by XristosAnesti
I agree.
I don’t think that guns should be allowed everywhere–especially airports. While they can be used to protect oneself they are also dangerous to other humans. I can see both sides of the argument but I think that allowing more guns, under the currents terms of aquiring said weapon, would, in the end, lead to more deaths or dangerous situations.
That’s not to say I don’t believe people should be trained in marksmanship.
Luke 22:36
36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Jesus said that we should arm ourselves.
Posted 5/1/2007 8:45 AM by Zayin_michael
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
I live in Texas and currently go to school there, and if they do allow things like that I would feel extremely unsafe. I mean fist fights break out over the most stupid stuff (girlfriends/boyfriends, drama, rivalries…w/e) , whats going to stop someone such as a teenager (yes, including myself) to over react (which happens alot) and bring a gun into a fight? I mean, even the thought of other people having guns won’t stop irrational actions, it just will widen the scale and hate. Keep guns out of all those places listed, its just begging for trouble.
Final thoughts:
In a fist fight at most you will get a broken bone
In a gun fight you will end up losing lives
Whatever happened to the zero tolerance zealots that expelled kids over butter knifes?
Posted 5/1/2007 9:32 AM by Helysian_pressure_outcast_love
I agree with you except for the thing about the butter-knives… that was pretty strange. Same with expelling 1st years for pretending their chicken-wing was a gun.
I think it would. And I completely agree with trunthepaige
I feel like he’s got good intentions, but this could go really, really wrong really, really fast.
I think handguns should definitley be allowed anywhere at all times, by all people, large and small, equally. That would be the only fair way. And then we can instate “shoot out time” which of course, would be at high noon, during the lunch hour, and we could just have shoot outs with the people that annoyed us, during the previous night, and in the morning hours. The shootout would be just as fair as a coin toss, relativley. The smaller amount of people would result in stopping world hunger, and the depletion of the ozone, and nonrenewable resources, especially if we skim the fat off of the bodies first and use them to fuel our automobiles then eat the rest for lunch. Shoot outs would eliminate the need for an entire branch of government, decreasing the national debt, lessen the gap betwen the rich and poor, promote equality( becuase we would all equally be dead) and uhmm… actually probably solve every single one of our problems as a people.. and you could arm the kids at schools, so they could eliminate bullying by just shooting the bully, and you could eliminate any problems with church doctrine by just shooting anyone who disagrees with you. would that not be awesome?
to answer the proposed question:
no. It seems absolutley ridiculous to allow concealed handguns everywhere.
yes
Welcome to America, land of the free and the home of the overboard. Let’s put out that building fire by pouring more gasoline on it.
No, I do NOT think it would have stopped anything. It would have turned into another OK Corrall of cowboy justice and a free for all of shooting. What moronic idiot keeps coming around to that idea as the solution? Now a governor??? Geez.
after passing some kind of test and background tests… maybe
i think that guns should be allowed to be carried around by people who are trained to use them (i.e. police and military people)… kind of like on planes and whatnot.
doubtful.
besides which, it’s just disgusting to turn a tragedy into a political agenda!!!
I fail to see the logic in that statement. Even at VT it would have been in a disaster, in my opinion. Can you imagine dozens of scared students opening fire all at once? There is no way this could be a good thing. It just makes it easier for the crazies to shoot people.
yeah.. if people getting shot is a problem then lets have more guns… that just seems odd. It was a tragedy and perhaps something that could not be avoided by having more guns or poilicemen, at least not wihtout invading epoples privacy more and annoying and scaring everyone.
Daniel (doubledb)
***ChingBe2917*** post had alot of anger, and sick violence in it. Maybe she should be expelled from whatever school/work/city she is in right now because she just might be another rampage killer ready to pop.
maybe, maybe not. that however is a risk i’d rather not take. i live in texas and ,yes, rick perry is an idiot. i hope this doesnt pass. tx had a ‘death penalty for child molesters’ bill in the legislature for a while there. tx gov’t is prty extreme.
that is the stupidest logic ever. let’s give everyone a loaded gun and see what happens… yeah, makes a ton of sense. not everyone is a protector.
I dont know, people with a short fuse shouldnt have a handgun and lot of people do have short fuse when they are in a courthouse, it seems. It will be drama all over again. Also, I dont want unskilled people firing a handgun in public.
Because people will be happier to be with their gun 24/7 and will therefore not feel a need to kill anyone
I meant to say “Yes, because…”
Picture this:
Crazy man walks into the school and starts shooting people up. Hero guy with a gun decides he can be a hero if he shoots crazy man dead. The thing is, Hero guy is really nervous and misses crazy man… and hits Scared girl. Scared girl’s friends pull out their guns and start shooting towards crazy man, but they miss also, hitting other students. Eventually crazy man is found in the middle of too much crossfire and is downed, but many more are dead by guns other than his.
I don’t see this being a good thing. I’ll agree with Xristos nd say that there should be some sort of mental evaluation… though that won’t stop the illegal sales of firearms. Perhaps if pistols are made unavailable to the public?
It’s a mixed bag. One one scenario, the crime rate will drop, because people know that everyone’s got guns, so they wouldn’t want to be screwing around with them. On the other hand, if you are not careful, shootouts reminiscent of gang wars or riots might break out in some places.
So, this is Texas. Can you say “Wild Wild West?” Yee-haw!
The thought of allowing concealed handguns in schools, hospitals and churches quite frankly scares me a whole lot!
would lead to a lot more accidental shootings and turn many places into a shooting gallery. I would support that if people were certified and if I felt competent that they knew how to handle a gun properly. I have yet to see that except people who use guns for hunting, the military or sport…
If the testing to hold such a license was ridiculously tough to get than yes. If we actually had people who were trained and took manditory tests every 6 months than I say they should be given a gun at all times and a tax break for their efforts. However, they should put severe restrictions on who can get the license.
I think people are over reacting on both sides of the fence. We have one side yelling, no guns for anyone, and the other yelling arm them all. The sad thing is that tragic things will happen, and there really isn’t anything we can do about them. We all want to “fix” it, but there will always be unhinged people out there that harm others.
No.
That would just make everything so much worst.
If you’re going to allow concealed weapons in places like that, there needs to be a separate set of training available, or the owners should have to take extra courses.
And for the people saying the laws are to cater to the paranoid…Which country has the most gun related fatalities year after year after year? And before I get attacked, I have two guns of my own.
If guns are to be allowed at schools, I sure would drop out.
as long as the gun is not concealed you can have as many as you can carry on your person because everyone need to know what your bringing to the fight if you are going to be in it
everyone thinks that THEY can be in control, if they had a gun. We’re NEVER the ones to use guns in the wrong way; we’re ALWAYS in control of our actions. We’re not like those CRAZY people out there who shoot people. We NEVER act irrationally.
hahaha… how naive can we be?
how about no guns anywhere? and not risk it?
>_>…duh.
Almost everyone is missing the point, or has it all confused. This bill isn’t going to:
1. lets kids carry guns
2. give guns to everyone in Texas
3. make guns more available
This bill is directed at the growing legal residents of Texas that already have a license to conceal a gun. You have to be over 21 years old to apply for a license. That license specifies that it is illegal to carry a gun and be drinking liquor. The bill is proposing allowing guns in more venues, rather than allownig more people to have guns. All these fears about, “Wild west shootouts” are exaggerated. If these hypothetical shootouts at could courtrooms occur, then what is stopping similar shootouts in malls, parking lots, street corners, family gathers, games of pickup basketball at the park right now?
Let’s use the Texas Department of Public Safety criminal statistics. In 2005 .15% of the Texas population were convicted of criminal offenses . In 2005 .00056% of the Texas population were licensed to carry a firearm and were convicted of criminal offenses. Based on DPS total convictions, non-licensed individuals were ACTUALLY convicted at a rate of 269 TIMES greater than a Licensed individual.
Nothing will change of this law is in affect. The same people that currently have a license to carry these guns will be the same people that have a license to carry that gun in church, or a hospital. The real issue that everyone is trying to change are the restrictions on obtaining that license. Those restrictions should be mental capacity, criminal backgrounds, and ongoing mandatory training. To some extent these restrictions are already in place.
I think that it very well might lead to less violence. I heard once that the rate of violence to population is higher now than it was in the “Wild West”. Of course I believe that guns were not allowed in courtrooms and probably not in churches either.
I don’t remember where I saw that but it kind of makes sense to me because if everyone has a gun and learned to use it safely and effectively at a young age then a person who wants to cause trouble would have many people to worry about taking him down and he will most likely not survive the day.
This guy’s a batshit loon if he thinks that allowing people to bring guns to BARS is going to make people safer, considering how many injuries occur from assaults with beer bottles.
Don’t see the need for them in churches either.
Guns will always be around they might only be available on the black market but they will still be available if you want one. If guns are only available on the black market then only criminals will have them. Various types of guns are banned right now and there are still cases of them being used in shootouts where they have the police outgunned.
If there were no guns anywhere in the world and nobody knew how to make one then you would be safer but that would require the killing of masses of people and destruction of untold numbers of books and guns. Even if you did do that you would still have people who would over time develop a working gun and then begin selling it. In order for this idea of no guns to work we would have get the guns away from the military as well as civilians and with how well some people hide you could not get rid of everyone who has a gun.
No, it wouldnt lead to fewer deaths, because people will still be killed regardless just in different places.. People like the Columbine kids or the Cho guy dont care that they will get shot. They obviously dont want to live.
I wouldnt want some guy at the park shooting a possible child predator and having a stray bullet hit a kid, especially my kids. Yes I want the bad guys to pay, but not at the expense of an innocent life.
And also, people would just be stupid.. “YOU CUT ME OFF YOU JERK!” (POP POP!)
Road rage would take on a whole different meaning!
I don’t mind concealed handguns being carried anywhere and everywhere… I’m more concerned on who’s carrying them.
Example: I don’t mind a friend that I know carrying his, because I know he’s watching my back.
No, it would not. It would just make more. And if anyone can’t see that, they are completely stupid.
What we really need to do is let the police beat the crap out of people and make people afraid to break the law.
I would like to have my faith restored in our Justice system and if peopel would be held accountable for their actions and stop all this whining about rights being violated, the laws could do what they were created for.
Would this plan work? I think, in many situations, that it would. But could I advocate the “Let’s try it and see what happens” approach? Probably not with a clear conscience.
I would want each user to undergo rigorous mental health checks and simulated crisis training before they carried a gun in many of those places, and that could be a cumbersome, unpopular system.
A lot of people here seem to be assuming that the average person is a lunatic just waiting to kill someone the moment they get their hands on a gun. I don’t think we are that bad off. (If you have friends like that, you should probably find new friends.) That said, I think there are places and situations where the average citizen should not be allowed to carry a gun (bars, etc.) because judgment could reasonably be expected to be impaired.
I am trying to think of a logical reason for why this would work. That’s just damned scary.
I think its a good idea. The guns are allowed to be there, but that means you still need a license to carry one. This law doesn’t change who can and who can’t buy a gun, it just changes where you can take it.
how about no guns anywhere? and not risk it?
>_>…duh.
Posted 5/1/2007 11:46 AM by uhohishkaze
Ever heard the phrase “If we outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns”?
Also, if these laws are going to happen…they need to happen with a lot of training and very thorough psychological evaluations.
no handguns. that is the reason y the shooting happened. because he got himself a gun.
What.
What.
What.
This post is fucking scary. The even scarier thing is that most of the commentors agree with the premise.
I can’t fucking wait to move back out of the US…
hey i totally support the depletion of the texan population! really though this seems like it would lead to mistakes and misunderstandings that involve gunfire.
Hope that joke of a governor does not run for president, he might win.
No.
the thing is, everyone keeps saying “more guns in schools? that’s horrid”.
but quite frankly, if a student wants to kill people, there are ways for that student to obtain a gun.
the real tragedy is when those who could’ve protected themselves can’t. because of laws that prevented them from having guns.
why punish the ones who followed the laws by allowing them to be killed by those who didn’t?
When I stop giggling about the “only in Texas” style of response to VT, I’ll let you know
And, for the record … I think it’s a good idea
Pass all the Bills, Make all the laws you want, for or against, it will not keep the loonatics from doing what loonatics do.
Which country has the most gun related fatalities year after year after year?
By percentage (the accurate measurement), or gross number (the preferred liberal tactic of skewing statistics)?
No, it would not. It would just make more. And if anyone can’t see that, they are completely stupid.
Or, they are looking at facts instead of ignorance and emotion. Maybe you should try it.
how about no guns anywhere? and not risk it?
>_>…duh.
I won’t hold my breath waiting to see how you propose to make that happen.
I can’t fucking wait to move back out of the US…
I can’t wait to see you leave.
May we could take up a collection to buy an airlinr ticket, just a thought
and i really don’t think any type of gun in a school is a remotely intelligent idea.
Really? Why don’t you ask the security guard at Columbine about that. He sure wishes he would have been allowed to carry it, instead of having to store it in his truck in the parking lot. While you’re at it, ask the parents of those thirteen kids how they feel about idiot liberals that banned the security guard from carrying his licensed weapon.
Because there are far fewer people that use guns for negative purposes than there are people who don’t.
Besides, criminals like to target people weaker than them. It might deter them some if they knew that the people they are attacking could kill them just as easily.
firstly, guns in school would only be carried by the teachers because you have th be 18 in most states to posses a weapon….so as long as you observe that law, it should overall save lives. I’m for it. No one wants to rob someone who they’re not sure is armed……..it could cut crime down. Besides, the pigs these days aren’t doing their jobs properly anyways. serve and protect, my ass. I’ll serve you and protect myself thank you very much.
1. Mentally unstable kids on campus.
2. Depressed/Bipolar kids on campus.
3. Kids with rage disorders on campus.
4. Drunken parties on campus.
5. Hazing on campus.
6. Gangs on campus.
7. People have been killed over damn ipods for crying out loud…
…and we want to give them more guns?
what happens when jimmy shitface’s fistfight goes wrong?
i think it would help, but its not like everyone is actually going to go out and carry their handgun everywhere…
Building_A_Mystery, I hope you someday realize how terrible you make real Christians look with your vicious statements, angry demeanor, and vengeful attitude. This has nothing to do with the comment you left for me and everything to do with the way I have seen you treat countless others on xanga.
Grow up, and please don’t say you are a Christ-follower.
that’s really, really, really, stupid.
i mean, thats like taking the human race back a couple steps. Like in the middle ages, when everybody carried a sword and if someone pissed you off, well, too bad for them.
I can see how maybe, in extreme cases like VT, this law might save a couple people. But on an everyday basis, i think it’s a pretty sucky idea.
No. This is ridiculous. Yes, someone could have shot the guy at Virginia Tech, but someone else could just as easily get really mad one day and pull out a gun and shoot someone. Or someone could be unbalanced and allowed to have a gun in a school or a hospital. Guns don’t make anyone safer.
Building_A_Mystery- Here, some much needed information for you, obviously.
http://www.csgv.org/docUploads/Gun%20Violence%20Fact%20Sheet%2Epdf
No. Then you would have a whole state of trigger happy Texans.
Hello people…Did it say anywhere in the article that suddenly the entire teenage population of Texas would be allowed to have guns? No.
Part of me wants to say if you are of legal age, correctly trained to use a gun, and liscensed to do so, they you should have a right to carry it. The other part of me sees these other moronic things people could do with that freedom and it worries me. I guess I look at it like this:
You walk in to a grocery store and OH CRAP it’s being robbed at gunpoint. What are the odds that someone would try to be a hereo and shoot the criminal instead of letting the police handle the situation? Instead of letting someone steal $500.00 or less there is a potential to have 3 deaths there.
I pretty much feel like police and military are the people best trained to handle arms. I see no reason why every Johnny or Susan should have the right to walk around and carry a gun with them anywhere they go. If they want to hunt fine, if they want a gun in their nightstand or car for “safety” reasons, that is fine too. However, I see no reason why at any point in time every American who chooses it needs to walk around with a gun. It just seems like a bad idea.
that is just scary. Texas has the worst laws and the worst reputation. I would never ever even think of vacationing, visiting, or let alone moving there.
And also, if you’re going to speak of idiocy, please, refer to some of your own posts for examples. Or are you going to use the typical conservative approach of having no other platform but bashing the opposition?
only in texas..
Actually one town did just that, and they haven’t had any crime for years now. I’ll try to find the news article link for you guys, but basically they required the head of every household carry a handgun, just in case. Crime plummeted to just about zero, the only criminal to bother them being from out of state, and quickly apprehended. Gun control isn’t about guns, it’s about control.
I really want to support this guy and I do, for most of the places.
Court rooms have bailiffs, trained men with guns. Done. We don’t need an irate family member over-riding the judge on the whole “death penalty” decision.
Also, they shouldn’t be allowed in bars. Those under the influence should have guns period. S’not like they could shoot the broad side of a barn while drunk anyway. You should have to check your gun at the front of the bar and blow a mild blood-alcohol-content to get it back, possibly the next day once you sober up.
He’s pretty radical with it, but I like what he’s doing. However, keep them out of bars and courtrooms.
Let’s see how the trial balloon works in Texas. We’ll see, I think.
Allowing handguns, concealed or otherwise, everywhere would have a horrible effect on our national health. The number of shooting would skyrocket – maybe only one or two people at a time, as though that’s a consolation to the mourning relatives left behind. For our national mental health we need to turn away from guns. Let’s think about making kindness more widespread, not making firearms more widespread.
This bill is directed at the growing legal residents of Texas that already have a license to conceal a gun. You have to be over 21 years old to apply for a license. That license specifies that it is illegal to carry a gun and be drinking liquor. The bill is proposing allowing guns in more venues, rather than allownig more people to have guns. All these fears about, “Wild west shootouts” are exaggerated. If these hypothetical shootouts at could courtrooms occur, then what is stopping similar shootouts in malls, parking lots, street corners, family gathers, games of pickup basketball at the park right now?
Let’s use the Texas Department of Public Safety criminal statistics. In 2005 .15% of the Texas population were convicted of criminal offenses . In 2005 .00056% of the Texas population were licensed to carry a firearm and were convicted of criminal offenses. Based on DPS total convictions, non-licensed individuals were ACTUALLY convicted at a rate of 269 TIMES greater than a Licensed individual.
Nothing will change of this law is in affect. The same people that currently have a license to carry these guns will be the same people that have a license to carry that gun in church, or a hospital. The real issue that everyone is trying to change are the restrictions on obtaining that license. Those restrictions should be mental capacity, criminal backgrounds, and ongoing mandatory training. To some extent these restrictions are already in place.
Posted 5/1/2007 11:51 AM by Tzaddick
Thank you, Tzaddick, for bringing some sweet reason to this debate.
Let’s legalize them and find out!
After all…
My body is but a vessel for my convictions.
If I had a gun in church…I think I would be breaking some law in church that says you can’t have a handgun
RIIGHTTTT!!!!!
I don’t think it would increase crime, but it definitely wouldn’t decrease crime, because now the people that had to conceal the weapon has no need to. Regardless of where you can carry it, the people who want to use it for bad will have it.
I can just see so, so many of the idiots at my school getting riled up and shooting someone. And probably a few more people afterwords, because they don’t want to get caught.
Um, no, that really should be obvious. It makes shooting more okay than ever, and when that happens, generally it does NOT “lead to fewer deaths.” Especially in places like schools where people who have the guns don’t even know how to handle them well, and may end up shooting someone unintentionally. Plus generally young people in school have short temper fuses and are prone to spontaneous action especially when prompted by others. So it’s just generally not a good idea.
I am all for having less gun control.
Maybe if people have undergone intense mental health evaluation.
“These new laws have done no good at all, but gun laws are not about actually saving lives they are all about catering to the paranoid at the expense of everyone else. Some people have an irrational fear of weapons.”
Posted 5/1/2007 9:00 AM by trunthepaige
Trunthepaige: I can see how you might think that about concealed weapon laws, though I’m not sure I agree. I think you’re way off, however, if you’re talking about all gun laws in general. I don’t have an irrational fear of weapons, but I have a legitimate fear of mentally unstable people carrying weapons. Gun laws are supposed to protect us from people like that having access to guns, but in a lot of places laws are too lax. These are the kind of laws that should be saving lives, and they should be better enforced so that they actually can.
hell yes
Texas will be texas! it might work
The point of a law like that is to let law abiding citizens (which are the only ones who can legally have guns anyway) have their guns with them for protection. The majority of the people causing problems with guns are the ones who shouldn’t have them in the first place and are breaking the law by having them. If you ban all guns everywhere for everyone there are still people that are going to break the law to have them. It’s human nature. We’re lawbreakers in some shape or form. Whether it’s man’s law or God’s law.
ok, yeah fewe deaths in tech is one possibility… or how about more? a shootout between someone who deems himself rambo and cho with the innocent people stuck in between? what about that as a case scenario? the cops can’t fucking aim half the time! what the hell makes you think that some civilian prick who has a handgun would fare that much better? are you insane?! more guns everywhere… with fewer restrictions. at least now you can somewhat prevent the perp from getting in with a gun if you have a metal detector and it goes off… if you remove all restrictions MORE ‘bad’ ‘insane’ ‘unstable’ people will have more guns and a better ability to cause harm to themselves and others. yeah, great idea. lets have paranoid individuals distribute vigelante justice and then claim to eprceive someone else as a threat… do you know why in europe this shit doesnt happen as often on that scale? cause NORMAL people don’t have access to AK47s and police issue guns and hollow bullets and can’t take their concealed weapons everywhere!!! do you want to live in fear of offending some guy at your school cause he might have a perfectly legal gun on his person and shoot your head off? I as a college student, would not feel any safer and would indeed feel less safe if some of my immature drinking classmates with short fuses could have weapons on campus! damn you people and your second ammendment… its for self protection – bullshit! more people die in accidents than perps die because someone was defending himself! the second ammendment was meant to prevent tyrany – well guess what? you have your little handguns and your automatic rifles and the government has planes and tanks – so no dice – today that reason completelly flies out the window! so whay do you insist on hanging on to that little bit of history? does it make you feel good to know that 400 children died last year because of handguns and most of those were cases of ‘legal’ handguns being used whether it be accidents or fellow family members snapping… why do you need a gun? to hunt? for deer with a lazor equipped automatic rifle? how fucking sportsmanlike of you…
maybe
That guy is right. If someone was there to stop the killer than less people would’ve been killed. But I think they should allow only certain personell to have guns, not the students.
yes, it would make the bad guys think twice. In the places that you really don’t want guns like courtrooms, metal detectors work great.
“An armed society is a polite society.”(Robert Heinlein I believe)
The reason that only a small percentage of Texans have concealed carry permits is that they self filter. Most people don’t want the responsibility that goes with the right. Those that do carry are more law abiding and responsible than the average citizen.
The victims at Virginia Tech didn’t need guns at school until they did.
In Israel teachers are armed with handguns and/or submachine guns, which is why suicide bombers target grocery stores and pizza joints.
Here’s an idea: mental health evaluation as part of the gun-owning process.
Posted 5/1/2007 8:57 AM by XristosAnesti
^ Well said.
’nuff said…
If concealed handguns were allowed at VT, they probably wouldn’t have stopped the initial killings, but maybe the last 29 of them. “Gun free zones” are nothing more than politically inspired kiling fields.
You know, there are people who can give you a concealed carry class. Like my uncle, for example.
So if people like teachers were required to take a concealed carry class and keep a gun with them at all times, yes, it would save lives. I think that would be a great idea.
I’m pro-gun control. I use both hands.
Public awareness programs involving firearms would go a long way.
Just sayin.
I think we should
A: Make it MUCH more difficult to get a weapon permit,
B: Make non-lethal weapons more appealing
C: Allow weapons everywhere
tada
Oh yeah, and jack up the gun prices, lower the non-lethal prices…I can see people being more tempted just to settle for a Tazer than saving up for a Glock
No, I don’t think so. All it would do is allow people who are licensed to carry in places they were previously not allowed. If someone is determined to bring a gun into any one of those places to do harm to others they will find a way regardless of the stated rules. Having licensed gun owners carrying could help to diffuse a bad situation.