March 1, 2012
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Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother’s Funeral
A priest denied a lesbian communion at her mother’s funeral.
The woman said, “I went up. I was standing next to my mother’s casket and he covered the bowl, and said, ‘I cannot give you Communion because you are with a woman, and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin.’” Here is the link: Link
Should a lesbian be denied communion at her mother’s funeral?
Comments (183)
This will not end well.
If he was denying her communion because she was sinful, then he shouldn’t have given communion to anyone at all.
Hi Dan!
Good for him! People want all the benefits of being in church, but don’t want to follow the rules.
Theologically, my sense is no.
I’d be interested in hearing the judgement of a Biblically literate Christian. (And no, Curtis, this doesn’t mean you)
@paoguy118 - Scissoring was the first commandment from Jesus.
No way was that right. She’s a sinner just like the rest of us, and if the rest of us can get it then she should be able to, too.
By his logic, the only person who should’ve received communion at their mother’s funeral was Jesus Christ.
Sigh.
So I guess in the eyes of the church, everyone who did partake in communion were not sinners Interesting. I would think a priest would encourage a sinner to partake, if anything. Then again, hypocrisy is the light of a nation.
@paoguy118 - “Good for him! People want all the benefits of being in church, but don’t want to follow the rules.”
Even more serious is denial of a religious right for man-made rules.
I bet most Christians would be up in arms if communion were arbitrary denied for any other sin.
I think if I were a lesbian, I’d tell him to go to Hell.
@Rob_of_the_Sky - and Me.
Nopee.
&hello
Where is the love these days…
@paoguy118 - Quiet, bigoted scumbag. I’m sure there are PLENTY of “sins” that should keep you from communion, yet you still get it.
@paoguy118 – ywhat is communion for? We are all sinners. A sin is a sin. If he goes by that train of thought every person in that curch, including himself should be denied communion.
@RazielV - Yeah, and I was thinking: Even so, the right thing to do would have been for the priest to be honest up-front about his interpretation of scripture (persumbly, the daughter and her family helped organize the funeral). Right or not, it was ugly for this priest to spring his slap-in-the-face without warning.
I posted about this a couple days ago. The priest handled that situation very, very badly. If he was going to deny Communion he should have dealt with the situation in a much more delicate manner. Instead of shaming her right in the middle of her mother’s funeral and then walking out of her eulogy and then not even showing up for the burial. I would expect a priest to behave with more humanity, even for a “mortal sinner” like a gay woman. There is never an excuse to be a Pharisee. I can’t imagine having to deal with the indignity of that behavior on top of grieving her own mother.
That’s my opinion, and if the Pharisees on here don’t like it, too damn bad.
@Celestial_Teapot - I am fully aware of that and agree. I also cannot suffer bigotry and hypocrisy quietly.
@lucylwrites - Yup.
Churches give communion to whomever they want. A church I attended refused to give communion to straight people who lived together without being married. A pastor at a church in the area refused to give communion to board members because they wouldn’t pass his budget and he also refused to give communion to people who knew he looked up porn on church computers.
@lucylwrites - Mortal sinner? The Bible states quite clearly all sin is equal with none greater or smaller. Such nonsense.
@ShimmerBodyCream - What is scissoring?
The Archdiocese issued an apology (I read the link). Mrs. Johnson (the daughter of the deceased) has received communion before, apparently at her church. This appears to be a case of a Priest attempting to make a political statement at a time when it was grossly inappropriate to do so.
Just as I believe that those jerks who attempt to protest the funerals of American soldiers are making an egregious error in judgment, so to do I believe this Priest did the same.
I don’t believe homosexuals should be denied communion, all human beings “sin,” where should the line be drawn. What about pedophiles, gluttons, covetous neighbors, etc. Should some CEO’s be excluded from communion for their greed? Isn’t that a sin?
If you believe, shouldn’t you follow the path of compassion and trust a higher authority to make the ultimate judgment?
let me think about that….tap tap tap, half a second has passed. Hell no, fuck no, and no fucking way. is my answer. I just heard that news myself.
YAY for your blogs, I will find more new sane friends as I read the comments of the commenters.
No preacher should be forced to give any religious act or “sacrament” against his beliefs. Just as no person anywhere any time should be. I think that is something the daughter really had an obligation to look into when preparing the funeral engagements.
@Celestial_Teapot - “I bet most Christians would be up in arms if communion were arbitrary denied for any other sin.” IDK what most Christians would do. But I can’t see how anyone would think they have the right to come into any religious gathering and then demand that everyone there change everything for them. That’s not quite how it works. Most of the time, people just go off and start their own church with their own rules.
@bakersdozen2 - Scissoring is the sexual act of rubbing vaginas together… lol
@RazielV - Agreed!
All sin equals the same penalty, in the eyes of God. If you lie, you’re in the same boat as a serial killer or a teenager that stole $10 from his mom’s wallet.
@BlindSight22 - Well said.
it is against catholic beliefs to receive communion as a mortal sinner. it’s in their faith, and their beliefs must be respected too, so long as they don’t infringe against the rights of others.
@RazielV - “The Bible states quite clearly all sin is equal with none greater or smaller.” Where? Other than the fact that sin condemns. Because I see a lot that would suggest different degrees of sin and punishment:
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money. Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Luk 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. Luk 10:13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. Luk 10:14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
And about this very thing, communion:
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
No.
@Xbeautifully_broken_downX - See above.
@RazielV - YOU BEAT ME TO IT! I was totally going to reference James!
@RazielV - @Xbeautifully_broken_downX - I did too! Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. GREATER CONDEMNATION. And if it will be WORSE for Sodom and Gomorrha, and if some will be “beaten with many stripes” and others “beaten with few stripes”, how can you say all sin is the same? As I said above, it is only the same in that it condemns us to hell, as @Xbeautifully_broken_downX - said. But if it is all the same then why are some punished more harshly?
@mtngirlsouth - James 2:10 – For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Matthew 7:1-5 – “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Isaiah 1:1-31 – “The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master’s crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.”
Job 1 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask. 17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not: but the generation of God preserveth him and the wicked one toucheth him not.
Corinthians I 6:7 Already indeed there is plainly a fault among you, that you have law suits one with another. Why do you not rather take wrong? Why do you not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 But you do wrong and defraud: and that to your brethren. 9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers: 10 Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.
Romans 3:10 as it is written: “There is no one just, not one, 11 there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. 12 All have gone astray; all alike are worthless; there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.
@RazielV - By the way, the very verse you quoted, about the mote and the thistle, also demonstrates greater sins and lesser sins.
So long as he didn’t give out communion to at least most of the people there. I believe you also have to had confessed your sins X amount of times whenever, so technically, probably a lot of them shouldn’t have been given communion. I reckon the priest was just being a jerk.
@mtngirlsouth - That’s the very question that makes people disbelieve in the words of the Bible. On one hand, all sin is equal, on the other HOMOS ARE BAD EVIL AND THE WORST. No, it doesn’t work that way. You can’t have everything equal and non-equal in the same thought. It’s logically impossible, but the verses quoted by both of us contradict each other. Therefore, this entire argument against homosexuals is really just bigoted bullshit because Christians cannot reconcile the most basic of thought: Is sin equal or are there degrees?
@mtngirlsouth - James 2:10, my friend. All sin is equal to condemnation to hell and death.
I think, really, the only notable exception would be blasphemy, and this is referenced at least 3 times (that I am aware of) to further stress the point.
@mtngirlsouth - I am aware. I added it in to emphasize my point on the contradictory and hypocritical nature of the Bible and adhering strictly to it without using one’s own personal sense of logical judgment and understanding of humanity and its complexities.
@Xbeautifully_broken_downX - You still do not explain greater condemnation and more and lesser stripes. Which seems to suggest that hell can be harsher for some. Case in point: I think Oprah will have it better in hell than Hitler will. And I am fairly sure that Paul will have it better in heaven than I will.
@bakersdozen2 - You cannot be serious.
@RazielV - Ah. Than what was all that about how all sin is exactly the same?
If I was a lesbian I would not ask for communion
I don’t think one’s sexual preference should be relevant in this case.
@mtngirlsouth - There’s a line of thinking among Biblical scholars that states that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed due to their lack of charity to travelers, not for anything sexual.
Course, thinking that means someone took the time to go through Aramaic and Koine Greek translations and cross-reference that with archaeological finds. Too much work, really.
EVERYONE is a sinner. Even when we try to live by the Bible and the church, we will still sin. ONLY JESUS is without sin. If he refused her communion because she is a sinner, then noone should have been allowed communion. He also wouldn’t have known every single person at the funeral – if there was a man there who had been raping his neighbors child, or another gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. there, and they were allowed to take communion….then it’s REALLY wrong. He may be a man of the church, but that does not give him the right to discriminate between sins. The man who took communion but is cheating on his wife is no more or less sinful than the lesbian woman. All sin is created equal in the eyes of God. Who is he to pick and choose which sinners get to take communion and which don’t? Isn’t it up to God to judge?
@bloggicus_maximus - My point had nothing to do with WHY they will have it worse. It was the FACT that they will have it worse. Which demonstrates that some sins are worse than others and punished more strongly.
@mtngirlsouth - All sin is equal etc, etc, etc. Unless you’re Paul or James. Always found that bit pretty odd, and I’m Catholic.
@mtngirlsouth - The point is that if there are two sets of conflicting rules in the Bible, by which does one go? If everything in the Bible is the absolute word of God, and it is spoken that he supports two entirely different mentalities, which is accurate? Therefore, condemning someone of a “great sin” above others is a fallacy and an affront to their belief as there is no concrete statement (that is not refuted by another statement in the Bible) that says so. Sure you can quote James 3:1, but James 2:10 refutes it. The argument becomes invalid as is the opposition to homosexuality based on the predication that it is a greater “sin” than any other–and therefore less deserving of communion than someone who had a dirty thought. Or someone who had committed murder.
This is the most scripture I have read in my entire life…
I was reading about this earlier. I’m not Catholic, but from what the Catholics are saying, this priest was following Catholic church doctrine about not admitting anyone to communion who was not “in a state of grace” according to their church laws. Their church, their rules. However, I completely disagree with how this priest handled it – completely showed a lack of tact and of love, and the communion issue could have been handled privately and discreetly, as should be the case. Any mourning family should be shown love, dignity and respect. Doesn’t mean he should break church law, but as a pastor, he was not at all compassionate with this woman at the time of her mother’s death.
@RazielV - Not really. The one is stating that all sin makes us imperfect. A little leavenleavens the whole loaf. There is no conflict between that fact and the fact that some sins are far worse than others.
The only thing that makes one “un deserving” of communion is either not being saved, or having some kind of sin in their life they are knowingly committing. It is very dangerous to take communion “unworthily” as I quoted to you above, because you can get sick or die as a result. However, I have never been on board with the idea that the worst sin is homosexual sex. “Feet that are swift to carry mischief”, and “sowing discord among the brethren” are also labelled as “Abominations”, but you never hear the preachers harping on the little old ladies who gossip.
Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
It just really irks me when people misquote the Bible, and that was why I started this discussion. Sometimes I forget that in reality people just don’t care, and it is really a waste of time. Thanks for the discussion.
@bloggicus_maximus - That’s the thing. I never got the impression that all sin is equal. The only thing about it that makes it equal is the fact that it makes us imperfect and in need of Jesus.
If she is baptized and has committed her life to Jesus Christ, then no, she should not be denied communion.
@bloggicus_maximus - I really was… and then I googled it.
It seems (inadequate?)
@mtngirlsouth - The real issue here is not misquoting. Those verses were directly quoted from the Bible. The issue is the vague and contradictory writing of the Bible’s authors (men) and the varying perceptions that arise from the many verses. It also boils down to what a person prefers to believe, allowing them to justify picking and choosing what verses they follow or what they feel a particular section means.
I hope you do not see this as aggressive or an attack upon you as a person, but rather a critique on the philosophy that is inherent in the argument about sin and the “degrees” thereof. Or the abhorrent actions of the pastor in the above story and the thoughts that contribute to the actions.
Dan, for better or worse (mostly), your blogs have informed me. Queef (sp?) was another word I was privileged to not know before my dear Dan came along….
@mtngirlsouth - James 2:10 says “If you have committed one sin, you are guilty of it all.” There may be different degrees of punishment for different sins, sure. You wouldn’t punish a murderer the same way you would punish someone who told a lie. But, in the eyes of God, if you have committed a sin, then you’re still a sinner just like everyone else. No matter how big or small the sin is, you were still defiant. So yes, all sins are equal to God.
@RazielV - You were trying to say it says something it doesn’t say. I have heard all this before. The Bible does not contradict itself, and every time people try to say it does, they are forcing it. And it absolutely boils down to what a person chooses to believe. That is the jist of the whole matter.
I started it, so no. I don’t think what he did was “abhorrent” though. If he feels he would be giving communion to someone “unworthily” which could cause them to get sick or die, and also be a sin against God if his own to do so, I don’t see how anyone could expect him to do otherwise. Whoever was in charge of the funeral arrangements should really have looked into that and planned it better. There are plenty of churches who have gay preachers. If you choose to have a funeral performed by someone, you cannot expect them to go against their own beliefs when they do it.
@the_imperfect - Only in the fact that once we have sinned we are no longer perfect and in need of a savior. But if some are punished more harshly then they must be worse than others which are punished less harshly.
@mtngirlsouth -
Sorry I missed the earlier reference to James. My bad.
I understand the point you are making, and I respect it. In my own (humble) opinion, I think the danger of this is that, you begin to rationalize your actions away “Well, I may be a sinful person, but I at least I don’t do (insert overtly *mortal* sin here).” The essence of that, I believe, is truly prideful, and wrong.
In the OT, God, in his own omnipotence, chose to end the lives of many men and women for things that we are guilty of doing so much today (or at least, I know I am!)…doubt, pride and arrogance, etc. I can’t rationalize or explain why it was such a huge thing then, and why God allows me to live, though, many times, like Lot’s wife, I have turned around and questioned God’s commands.
What I do know is that I can eat pork and lobster, and my neighbors don’t condemn me if I “look proud.” Back then, though, polygamy was accepted, people had slaves, and if God asked you sacrifice your own son, you did it. Doing these things today would have severe societal consequences and most churches or religious leaders would tell you to repent, and some would even condemn you.
I say allllllll of that, to say this:
When looking at the Bible, one can take passages and messages and make it into something different almost every time. The concept of it really is amazing to me.
So, are there varying degrees of punishment? I couldn’t TRULY say. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility, of course. Ultimately, though, if my sin separates me from God, in my view, that is the worst kind of punishment. No matter how much fire and brimstone were there, it would be incomparable to me, to knowing that I would never feel God’s presence or peace again.
So, I take from my own study and review, that God wants us to realize that we all “fall short of the glory of God,” and the most important thing is that, His Son was sent to save us. The rest, is in the details for me. Which, is why I respond to arguments like this, in that manner.
@Xbeautifully_broken_downX - I agree with everything you said here. But the flip side to that is the attitude that no one can ever say anything is bad ever if they are not perfect. Anything goes because its all the same anyway and no one is perfect.
@mtngirlsouth - I totally agree. You can flip almost any logic to really kind of, um, inflate your ego and pride. It’s a part of our sinful nature.
Whoa, whoa, everyone… II Kings 19:27, “But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?”
Shit and piss or wafer and wine, can’t we all just get along. The Bible says a lot of things and each verse, when taken separately, can be interpreted as the Bible saying any number of things. Whatever side of whatever discussion you take the Bible has a quote you can use, therefore, no one can “out Bible” anyone else.
Psalm 133:1 “Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!” and if not, Hosea 9:14 “Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.”
@RazielV@ Xbeautifully_broken_downX - - @mtngirlsouth - The distinction in what you guys are arguing about is that of salvation and that of judgment. If we commit one sin, no matter which one, we cannot go to heaven without the forgiveness of that sin. So in that context, all sins are equal. But on judgment day, there will be different degrees of punishment according to how we lived.
The sin here is unrepentant adultery. That sin includes anyone who is living together without being married.
@musterion99 - Perfect summarization! You are always so good with that sort if thing!
Hate to say I told you so, but…
The problematic parts are:
1. Sin is sin and repentance allows all sinners to take the sacraments. Should she be able to pray forgiveness and be considered clean at that point?
2. Communion is for the church (those who have repented of their sins and are actively turning from that sin and following Christ example)
3. If she has not made the conscience decision to turn from her sin of Homosexuality, is she a true believer and should she be able to take communion?
4. Is the priest a sinner and should not be able to serve or take communion or judge the Woman according to his own sin nature?
5. Did the Priest ask her if she repented from her sin of Homosexuality, or did he make an educated guess that she would not truly repent from her lifestyle?
i personally think he made a mistake in judging her without asking her to repent, but if she chooses to remain in her sin and stand defiant against the teachings of the church, then why would she ask to take Communion in the first place knowing The Word teaches against it?
Tough call. Both are accountable either way.
@musterion99 - Great point!
@mtngirlsouth - There’s a lot of consensus that the contradictions between Peter and Paul/James were mistranslations. There was even one person that said Paul probably took his views because he knew it pissed Peter off.
Apparently they hated each other for whatever reason.
Isn’t that like a defining point of Catholicism? To forgive sin?
@mtngirlsouth - @Pastor_Rock - Thank you.
@BoundlessNoctuary - Mortal sin is forgiven in the confessional through the sacrament of Reconciliation. It is formal, and like Communion it is administered by the priest.
In this case, the priest determined that the woman in question was living in a state of adultery. He is therefore bound not to administer the sacrament of Communion to her.
@forever_musing - THIS. exactly this.
the point of communion is that the bread represents the body of jesus, given up freely to pay the price for our sins so we can stand before god blameless. the wine represents the blood that washed the sinner clean. we are ALL sinners and we will die that way. but we have been forgiven – PAST TENSE. FORGIVEN. it is finished. over with. NO ONE should be denied the communion at all. it is NOT man’s right to decide who can COMMUNE with jesus, in other words, share in what he did.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - But… That’s not what adultery means.
@BoundlessNoctuary - It does to the Catholic Church. You can look it up in the Catechism. LINK
I read the news article in the Twin Cities Pioneer Press and this incident is indeed controversial. Most priests I have known are very compassionate men and would probably have spoken to the lesbian woman before hand so as not to create a scene at the funeral.
Disrupting the funeral service adversely affected everyone who came to grieve and pay their respects to the deceased, not to mention publicly humiliating the poor woman who was not allowed to receive Communion.
These comments make me lol.
The priest is in the wrong.
The Bible says, “Judge not, lest ye be judged”. Guess the priest missed that part…………idiot!
The Priest did what was right, although a clumsy funeral I think. Clumsy doesn’t equal wrong. The priest
should have set the standards before the service with the families if at all
possible. I have never seen communion at a funeral, maybe this is a Catholic
thing, I do not know. It is no big deal, churches do this all the time if they
have a closed communion or they think the person receiving communion is not a
Christian, or in their case if closed communion, not Catholic.
I do not feel the Catholic Priest was trying to offend her or hurt her. He
made a conscious decision to do what he thought spiritually was the right thing
to do, which he did. I think he made the right decision. He thought if he allowed her to take communion
it would bring condemnation from God on her for unrepentent sin. He is accountable to
God for the things he does on earth at a greater accountability than the
community as a whole. It is difficult to know exactly why he refused her but it
appears he did not refuse her because she was sinning, rather he refused her
because he was of the opinion that she was out of fellowship with God. All
Christians sin and it is impossible to go through life without sinning. So for
all there is a process of regeneration in which a person evaluates his
sin, repents of the sin, and then receives fellowship and communion. This is the
accepted requirement of just about all Christian religions including Catholic.
The issue had nothing to do with sin. The issue was whether or not the Priest
believed she repented of that sin, and in this case the sin was homosexuality.
If she had a lackadaisical approach to the sin of homosexuality she might have
told the priest she was born homosexual so homosexuality was not sin. If she
told the priest this which is contrary to most interpretations of scripture hen,
rightfully so he should refuse communion to her. It is not up to her whether or
not she is . It seems to me she is the one that made the mistake by having her
mother buried and funeral done at a church she didn’t attend. This is very
strange to me. I think she did this to purposely challenge the church rules and
make a big hoopla la out of this. Consider this scripture and why this priest
did this:
NIV 1st Crinthians 11:23-30
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
@Composing_Life - Actually I think you are wrong on this one. It is the Pastor or Priests duty to administer sacrements according to scripture and scripture clearly teaches that those out of fellowship with God recieve condemnation from God if they partake of these rites in an unholy manner.
@Celestial_Teapot - It is quite possible the priest was upfront and this is just a newshound trying to make news to bring an issue close to her heart and get publicity.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - It is plain and simple. The Priest determined she was out of fellowship with God by her actiona and appearance. This is scriptural according to 1st Corinthians 11;23-30.
@NowSixty - Actually, no it doesn’t say that. You’re quoting that out of context. According to scripture, 1st Corinthians11:23-30 the Priest’s and Pastor or Elders duty in the administration of Sacrements, it truly is in his full rights to decide who is worthy to receive communion. The Priest is given this right to make this judgement.
@NowSixty - According to the Bible, Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to the Apostles, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” John 20:23 LINK
According to Catholic theology, the power to forgive sins was passed from the Apostles to their successors.
@RobertLeeRE - That’s true. But he could have made his determination in a much more humane and socially appropriate way. The Catholic Church is very concerned with human dignity and propriety along with the proper administration of the sacraments.
There is a concern that disrupting the funeral service and publicly humiliating the lesbian woman were totally unnecessary.
@godfatherofgreenbay - You are quite right. Many churches refuse communion if your not a member of their particular brand of Christianity. This is their right though. What I cannot figure out is why communion at a funeral. This is quite strange to me.
@RobertLeeRE - Communion is given at every Catholic Mass. Mass is celebrated at the funeral.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway -It is quite possible she had every intention to disrupt the service and even was told beforehand she would be refused communion. Since we were not there there are endless possiblities of how this might have really played out.
Too bad the Priest did,nt see this comming and just refuse to do the funeral to avoid the controversy.
@RobertLeeRE - That’s why this is controversial. The news article I read included a statement by Church authorities that appeared to be critical of the priest.
We’ll just have to see how this thing plays out in reality.
@paoguy118 - The strange thing is the daughter selects the catholic church to do the funeral and then complains on the rules!
@BoundlessNoctuary - He is right. Adultery is used as general term in the bible, in many places. Adultery … Symbolically adultery is used to express
unfaithfulness to covenant vows
to God, who is represented as the husband of
his people.). Adultery
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I was unaware of that.
@RobertLeeRE - Here is a quote from the news article I read:
Archdiocese officials would not comment. Instead, they issued a short statement saying that the priest’s actions were against “policy” and that they would look into it as a personnel issue.” LINK
this is just ridiculous.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - yeah, I had read that also. But I just took it as liberal and conservative factions within the same institution like the State Department and the Presidency. I guess I sort of take the Priests side, because I feel he most likely would have avoided the controversy if he could have,. To me, a lot of people try to stir things up to promote change. I guess to me it is not that big of a deal, and she made it a big deal by lambasting the priest.
@bakersdozen2 – She is very serious and what people do behind closed doors is their business not the publics unless they choose to make it that way
I would not think so. It should be between her and Gid but. Maybe there is something the Priest is not allowed to do and he jut can’t. Funeral or not.
The point is not about a funeral. The point is about proclaiming Jesus as Savior. If I was conducting the service and offering communion I would of explained what the Bible said about communion. That it should be taken in a worthy manner and was to be taken to commerate the cross. I would allow each person to examine their own heart and make their own decision. I feel it’s wrong to put yourself in the place of God and deny anyone communion. It’s a personal thing between the person and God.
If she is a Christian she should be allowed to partake as she would simpy be bring God’s wrath on her own head. Its not for some random dude to choose.
Now if she is not a Christian then that should be the reason she can’t participate. (rather than being a lesbian)
Basically, I don’t have enough information to give a proper answer. (and I don’t feel liek looking up the story. AND chances are I wouldn’t get much more information there anyway)
@Randy7777 - In Catholic theology, the priest stands in for Christ. The priest then becomes the mediator between man and God just like Jesus. Only Jesus can turn bread and wine into His Body and Blood.
So it is with Christ’s full authority that the priest acts. And if a wanton sinner comes to defile the altar and the Eucharist it is the priest’s duty to withhold Communion.
You may not agree with this. But the Catholic Church defines its own doctrine.
The priest is in the wrong.
From a strict religious standpoint, you are not supposed to take communion if you have sins that you need to confess until you go to confession. (The best example I remember of this as a child was my mother not taking it if she had missed mass the previous week, until she went to confession). But that’s not the priest’s call. It’s not his place to single her out and deny her communion because of her “sin”, because it clearly wasn’t about “sinners” not receiving communionl let’s face it, if that’s what it was about, I don’t know why he was giving communion at all, because I’m pretty sure that the rest of the congregation wasn’t 100% pure.
@RazielV - where does the bible say that all sins are equal? I think they’re equal in that they all separate us from God, but Jesus makes reference to ‘greater’ sins (John 19:11)
If you are excommunicated it would be a reason to be denied communion.
I don’t know of being a lesbian as a reason for excommunication.
It used to be they didn’t give communion to non-Catholics, but I have a hard time keeping track of these things. so I don’t know if that’s the case anymore.
In previous times high ranking aristocrats could be brought to their knees by being denied communion.
@mtngirlsouth - I actually agree with you (seems we’re at odds, in general)– I think it’s wrong to try to force someone to go against their belief, particularly when she could have chosen some other priest who would not have cared about her sexual preference. Maybe that was the priest her mother had arranged for? Still, I would probably rather have a priest who supported me performing the ceremony, because going to your mother’s funeral has to be difficult enough.
It’s kind of like someone who is not a vegan going to a vegan restaurant and getting upset when the chef will not serve them beef.
I can’t really contribute to any of the biblical discussion other than the fact that, back in the days when I went to church on a regular basis (when I was 12ish), I was taught that all sin was equal in the eyes of God. They probably don’t get into the finer details of the bible when they’re teaching it to kids, though, so what do I know?
@FoliageDecay - Catholics are not allowed to take Holy Communion if they are in a state of mortal sin. Adultery is a mortal sin so the lesbian woman was not allowed to take Communion.
Catholic doctrine and theology are what they are. The problem here is that the priest might have been able to handle the situation in a private discussion with the lesbian woman instead of publicly humiliating her and disrupting the funeral service.
@mtngirlsouth - [The Bible does not contradict itself, and every time people try to say it does, they are forcing it.]
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wow.
The buy-bull is CHOCK-FULL of horrible contradictions that no amount of dishonest word-twisting can reconcile.
But, whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess. LOL!
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - That makes sense.
yes he was right. homosexuality IS a sin and somebody that is homosexual should not be allowed to partake in communion, when they refuse to be free of their sin. Props to the priest and I hope the woman was embarrased enough to turn from her sin, if she’s not than shame on her!
and yes, i hate homosexuality, abortion, and adultry! I am a conservative and darn proud of it!
@mtngirlsouth - Here’s something to consider. Luckily, soon we won’t have to listen to your BULLSHIT. Because, uh, yeah. Christianity is beginning to die out, have you noticed? More and more people are abandoning it. And for obvious reasons. I can destroy the bible with one word. DINOSAUR.
@bakersdozen2 - It’s a coupling mechanism that allows lesbians to transmit the knowledge of the universe vaginally.
@LetsTripTheLightFantastic - I seriously cracked up at this.
No we are all sinners.
“Let those without sin cast the first stone”…one of my favorite verses in The Holy Bible.
Wow, that’s absurd. Like most of you have already said, by that logic, no one should get communion. One of the most important things a church is supposed to do is to BRING sinners in and lead them to Christ, not slap them in the face and withhold the love in their biggest time of need!
Biblically – No
For a Catholic – Yes
The difference is int he Catholic church, sin is connected to Commnion, while in the Protestant church, it is connected with accpeting Christ and being saved by grace. Do I think it is wrong, yes, but she also was likely aware of the rules and it is really up to the preist, not her, whom he does and does not serve communion. If he did serve it, he would risk loosing his job and perhaps be stripped of his position and authority. Makes me glad to be a baptist/Protestant on this one
@Randy7777 - Actually the point is about a funeral, and a Catholic funeral at that. According to1st Corinthians:23-30, and generally accepted Christian dogma all churches place either an elder, Pastor. Priest, Minister in authority over the congregation to administer sacrements according to scripture and how that particular sect of Christianity (Cathlocism) interprets the scripture.
@IniquitousxAffliction - I can destroy Dinasour with one word: METEORITE!!!
@Doubledb - exactly, she was already aware of the rules of communion in that church and had probably already discussed with that Priest, to later make a hoopla la out of this whole thing.
@Tallman - True, but not all have repented of those sins. According to 1st Corinthians 11:23-30 and Catholic dogma it is the Priest’s duty to administer communion in a worthy manner. Whether or not sin is involved has nothing to do with it. The key is repentence, not sin, and what conversation the Priest already had with this woman prior to the funeral.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - Actually this is not just Catholics. All Christian doctrine accepts this generally speaking. But this issue here is ofcourse Catholic dogma, for that is all that applys in this case.
@Lost_In_Reverie - It is not a strict religious idea. This is common practice among all Christian sects. Communion administrative decisions are always made by either an elder, Priest, Minister, Pastor or Preacher. If she hasn’t repented of certain sins, which are in this case obvious by the way she dresses it is the priesst’s duty to point this out before the funeral, which he probably did, and rufse communion, which is what he had already warned her he would do. According to 1st Corinthians 11:23-30 and Catholic dogma it is the Priest’s duty to administer communion in a worthy manner. Whether or not sin is involved has nothing to do with it. The key is repentence, not sin, and what conversation the Priest already had with this woman prior to the funeral.
A sin is a sin but that was down right rude.. at a funeral.. really?
@Doubledb - It was a combination of things that killed them. Did you know they found a larger point of impact? It was hidden under the ocean. Go figure. Did you know that the insects of that time grew to be so large because of the high conscentration of oxygen it the atmosphere? They did a lab test, and put fruit flies in trays of high oxygen, and they grew 3 times bigger.
Communion is for people who are “right with God”. Should be taken after a lot of prayer, and asking for forgiveness of your sins. So no, she shouldn’t have been given communion. Go ahead and call me a bigot and a homophobe. A religion is a religion.
I don’t take communion because I am not “right with God”, and I am living in sin. I haven’t asked for forgiveness, and even if I do, I doubt my ways will change (so clearly asking forgiveness won’t make me mean it). Just thought I’d throw that out there, since I’m sure I look like a giant dick.
How did he know she was a lesbian..? Was she making out with another woman during the funeral? Or did he know the family well? Also, is she an active member of the church? Or was she just taking communion because it was offered at her mother’s funeral? There are two many questions for me to make any kind of informed call on whether or not I feel this was unjust..
@RobertLeeRE - No matter how you phrase it, it is decidedly hypocritical for the priest to deny someone communion on the grounds that they are a sinner when there is no way that every other person in that congregation is perfectly sinless and repentant. Is every other member of the congregation asked to attend confession and repent before communion? Yes, we know they’re supposed to but I know for a fact that not everyone does. Why should this woman be singled out in a very emotionally vulnerable moment because the priest happens to be aware of her sin? If a priest caught a man cheating on his wife, should the priest publicly humiliate him the following Sunday by informing him that adulterers are not permitted to receive communion?
Also, your remark about her sin being obvious by the way she dresses is pretty offensive.
@Lost_In_Reverie - That is religion, Cathlocism, a belief in matters of right and wrong. Hypocracy is a matter of perspective and has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The Priest decided the Lesbian had no ongoing relationship with God, and out of conscience decided to refuse her communion, for her own good, according to his interpretation of scripture, 1st Co 11:23-30. Whether you agree or approve has nothing to do with the Priest’s decision to implement communion. If she didn’t like church beliefs and rules she should have had another church, specifically her church, bury her mother, instead trying to force the church to do it her way. The only controversy created here is that by the lesbian claiming these things.
@T0m03 - Exactly, we do not know the full story at this stage. I am guessing but I am sure this isn’t the last we’ve heard of this one.
@waynka1 - Rules of etiquette have nothing to do with the administering of sacraments by a
priest, scripture does
@plastic_army_men - No one is right with God. Everyone must repent but not everyone does. The Priest had decided, for probably a reason we do not know yet at this time, she did not repent, so she should not take communion. This is the Priest’s call for the Catholic religion, which is what happened.
@FoliageDecay - The reasons are outlined in 1st Co 11:23-30.
@mtngirlsouth - @RazielV - @Xbeautifully_broken_downX - I’m sorry for jumping in here, but I thought that I’d make a point that I think that maybe is being missed here.
Sin IS sin, and all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The NATURE of sin is that it sepperates us from Christ/God. So, if I lie, it’s the same as if I kill, etc.in God’s eyes because ANY minor offense initlally sepperates me from God.
HOWEVER! –
When a person is “saved” – they are supposed to be “free from their sin” – Jesus said repeatedly, “Go and… SIN NO MORE” - yes, He knows we’ll still fall/fail… But, we are not bound by our sin anymore.
Communion is not supposed to be consumed unless the person is “right with God…” but, this might be at the person’s own discretion.
Does that mean that this was handled well? No. It does not. Even Christ had compassion, and shared Himself/love to people LIVING in sin, STOOPED in sin, etc
It is the Catholic Church’s prerogative. I’m a United Methodist. We have an open table communion. That is our prerogative as United Methodists. These different perspectives need to be understood and respected by everyone who is interested in the Lord’s supper. It doesn’t make much sense to me, however, that she would be denied communion when, perhaps, a young catholic man could be very promiscuous out of the context of marriage and still be offered communion.
So he probably asks everyone if they have lied, stolen, commited adultery and a bunch of other things recently, before allowing them to have it…there must be a long waiting line.
Weird. I was raised on the idea that the catholic church was a place for sinners, not “perfect” people. Uhg. Fail on the priests part.
@IniquitousxAffliction - I did actually. I believe one of two things, either Creation lasted longer than 7 days (obviously) and/or the days of creation in genesis are more poetic than literal, meaning, it was writtn to say god created, provides, and is in control. I think the church looses when it is in denial of science but I also thin the same about science when it is in denial of some thing they simply cannot explain.
I think the church has the right to make these calls.
If she loved the lord enough to want communion she would have rejected the sinful lifestyle that separates her from his glory.
What did the news headline say? “Priest becomes a jew at communion”?
@RobertLeeRE - Hypocrisy does have something to do with this discussion because this woman was clearly singled out. That she is a lesbian is irrelevant, as it could have happened to any other kind of sinner, but my point is, it didn’t happen to anyone else. This woman was singled out as a sinner and judged by the priest in a way that I have never seen before (I attended Catholic church services for the first 15 years of my life) and do not find to be appropriate. I understand that it is a rule of the church to not receive communion if you have sinned and not repented and sought confession. I also understand that that is something that can only be between that person and god. It was wrong of the priest to judge her relationship with god, and hypocritical of him to judge her and no one else. For all he knows, half the congregation is also unrepentant sinners, but he gives them communion anyway. Why would he judge this woman openly and turn a blind eye to the rest of the population? This is hypocrisy, and that is part of the discussion at hand.
I can see how this was questionable. But, if she’s living with a woman, or any woman, the living with a man, they would be treated the same. If they’re living in open union, or even married by the state it is not recognized by the church and you cannot take communion (and this applies to both men and women- so there is not discrimination there) but I can see the issue since she can’t be married in the church so she would never would be able to take communion. It’s the rules… so if I marry someone of another religion it was my choice (even though love is not a choice) but I would never be able to take communion. So, she can complain but the church is protected by the separation and state and church.
I say, it was the priest’s right to uphold the church’s sacred communion and she knew she couldn’t take communion from the get go if she was a practicing catholic.
@LetsTripTheLightFantastic - Kind of like a metaphysical Vagina Monologue
Why stop her from taking it? It’s for her to choose not the priest. The Word of God is clear when it says: “For this reason, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord
in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. A
person should examine himself/herself first, and in this way let him eat the
bread and drink of the cup. For the one who eats and drinks without
careful regard for the body eats and drinks judgment against himself.”
If we’ve confessed our sins to Him “Who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins” and are in right relationship with God and our fellow men then anyone is free to take communion.
@bakersdozen2 - Sort of like a Vulcan Mind Meld with vaginas.
@LetsTripTheLightFantastic - A perineal pow wow
Why dont we pose the opposite question, is it right for government to enforce what religious institutions believe, teach, and practice?
Denying someone communion is denying that person of jesus christ. The symbolic meaning of the eucharist is remembering the body and blood of jesus. That he lived and died for our sins. Keep in mind jesus befriended sinners, he welcomes us, all sinners, to join him. I think the priest acted in judgment, which is a sin. The first commandment is Do Not Judge, only god has that authority.
@RazielV - duh….that’s not true. John’s epistle (one of ‘em) says some sins are to the death, and others not. you run your own show, eh?
i am against homosexuality
@Carly Gillespie@facebook - A funeral isn’t a religious ceremony. A true Child of God hates the sin and loves the sinner. The priest was sanctimonious and cruel.. He shouldn’t be giving communion if he has such a hard heart. The woman just lost her mother.
@Lost_In_Reverie - How do you know it didn’t happen to someone else? Actually this is a pretty common thing in a very large church, which this is. Very unlikely anyone would make all the hoopla la that she made. Actually what is wrong is for you to judge the Priest, not the other way around. That is why your not a Priest and haven’t been given the authority of a Priest that has the authority to judge whether or not someone may receive communion.
@beesuze - .Actually in Christianity a funeral is a religious ceremony. The main facet of
Christianity centers around the most famous funeral of its messiah Jesus Christ
whose crucifixion, death, placement in the grave and resurrection on the morning
of the 3rd day is the main point of the entire Christian belief. You do not know
what your talking about when you say a Catholic funeral is not a religious
ceremony.
@RobertLeeRE - I just said in my comment that in my 15 years attending regular mass I never once saw it happen. I’ve also never heard of it happening from anyone I know in the Catholic community. And even if it happened to others, again, I cannot possibly believe that the priest has done a thorough investigation of each and every parishioner to determine who should or should not be receiving communion. Therefore, his judgement in this case appears to be hypocritical because he is denying this woman on the grounds of her “sinner” status, but I have known people who do not believe in the Bible who have received communion, so obviously it is not common practice to judge every individual attending a mass on their worthiness to receive communion. As for the topic of judgement, pretty sure most of the Bible is against anyone judging anyone else.
Jesus said “Thou shalt not judge or be judged yourself.” Did he not? Who does this priest think he is? OK, so it is supposedly sin to be a lesbian. So what? I bet most of that church is full of deep dark secret sins, since most of them are. That priest was NOT following God’s word.
@Closure_Theory -.No one denied her of Christ. She chose
not to repent of her sin of homosexuality. That is religion, Catholicism, a
belief in matters of right and wrong. The Priest decided the unrepentant Lesbian
had no ongoing relationship with God, and out of conscience decided to refuse
her communion, for her own good, according to his interpretation of scripture,
1st Co 11:23-30. Whether you agree or approve has nothing to do with the
Priest’s decision to implement communion. If she didn’t like church beliefs and
rules she should have had another church, specifically her church, bury her
mother, instead trying to force the church to do it her way. The only
controversy created here is that by the unrepentant lesbian
@intellectprofound - Actually you are wrong, Jesus never said that. And he thinks he’s a Priest that is who he thinks he is. The real question is [who] do you think you are? The Priest does not report to you.
@RobertLeeRE - Uh, I read that in the Bible dude. I think I sense hostility being directed at me for some strange reason. Screw you.
Lesbians that have children are obeying the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Lesbians that purely continue their way for pleasure and never have children are sort of not blessed. The Catholic church and protestant church loves the sinner and not the sin. If a sinner repents and stop sinning technically they have the options of all the sacraments. But to continue in sin and not make a step towards redemption will make all sinners an outcast from the Church sacraments.(I do not know of any Church refusing worship services to sinners)
Believe it or not murderers and other sinners can make a last minute confession and be saved. But the line is drawn at hard headed and stubborn sinners who refuse to repent. I suppose a Senator or congressman who will never repent of their Pro Choice stand is very hard to argue or determine to be refused the sacraments. Some things are not black and white but in shades of gray.
I think that those folks who want to belittle Biblical study can have their opinions.Without a foundation from which to argue from just gives them too much license to mock other things.Sins like adultery gives people a sort of guideline what not to do. Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. I hope that people come from reading all the comments a sort of guideline to what really matters.
@Accountant7t7 - Actually it is not for her to choose. That is why he was carrying the communion plate and not her, because the choice and authority was given to him by the Catholic church.
@PPhilip - Yup!
@waynka1 - Yes she was very rude at her mother’s funeral. It would have been better she did not attend, her nor her agenda.
@Doubledb - Actually not true. Protestants believe the same thing. The only difference because protestants are not micromanaged there is no top down authority and structure.No one denied her of Christ. Are you saying protestants do not read or follow the bible? Check for yourself-
1st Co 11:23-30. As you see it says a person is not to receive communion without repentence first. And fyi there are many sects of Christianity that also have closed communion and will refuse anyone not a member of their church. Whether you agree or approve has nothing to do with the
Priest’s decision to implement communion. If she didn’t like church beliefs and
rules she should have had another church, specifically her church, bury her
mother, instead trying to force the church to do it her way. The only
controversy created here is that by the unrepentant lesbian
This is a very simple issue.
1) Communion is a sacramental, liturgical act, inside an organized religion and is constrained by the outlines of that religion’s guidelines for the scope and intent of the act.
2) As taught by scripture, communion is for believers only.
3) It is clearly taught, inside the religion, that homosexuality is a sin
4) It is also taught that someone who has truly repented of their sin will not continue boldly in that sin, though they may at times stumble into that act
From that, it can be sanely concluded that this woman isn’t eligible for partaking in communion.
HOWEVER
It is also taught that one must examine themselves before taking communion and that they do so “at their own risk” if you will.
Therefore, the only relevant reaction to this incident is that the Priest had no right to refuse her communion, whatsoever, according to the teachings of the scripture from which this practice originates. Whether or not she should have chosen to participate is solely between God and herself.
Full stop.
@AgainstTheWind1 - I think pastors and priests DO have the right to refuse someone communion. It’s one of the best methods of church discipline.
And Dan, nice stealing my topic.
I am not Catholic but I thought according to this religion, Catholics woud first have to attend confession before this sacrament is administered and confess any/all sins in the eyes of this religion. If this person is not a practicing Catholic (like a member of any private club or association one joins who would have to be a member in good standing) why would one want to partake (if an individual has not abided by the rules of said club or organization or has parted ways for their different viewpoints)? Woudn’t it be like anyone asking to participate when they no longer belong? Wouldn’t the same apply to me (not being Catholic) if I wanted communion? What about any person who the priest knows is divorced (since I believe this too is against the Catholic Church’s rules)? Would he deny them too? Just asking…
@NightCometh - Biblical foundation for the right of a Pastor to deny someone communion, that negates or overrules the didactic instruction of 1 Corinthians 11:28, which is the direct and unambiguous instruction concerning communion?
Also, how is someone else discussing an issue that was in the public domain akin to stealing your topic simply because you might also have brought it up? I heard Andrew Breitbart died today, and I made a pulse about it. I hope no one else mentioned that before me, as I’d hate to be accused of plagiarism…
@AgainstTheWind1 - Dan has told me that I “beat him to a topic” before, and that’s really between me and him.
@NightCometh - Fair enough, although it is a fair question.
Any offerings for my other question that directly related to your comment to me?
I’d say that’s up to the church in question. They should be able to deny any of their services to anyone they want, on any grounds. I think it’s a shitty thing to do, but hey, their church, their beliefs, their rules.
On a side note, reading through some of the comments, here…I always find it hilarious when people debate their interpretations of the bible, like that. It’s like watching a bunch of nerds in a comic book store argue over who would win in a fight between Batman and Superman.
@SheTigerCat - I loved your comment! I wanted to add one thing to it, though: a divorced Catholic can have his/her marriage annulled, if possible. There is another whole topic…
@MommyMarty22 - If you have committed a mortal sin and have not gone to Reconciliation, you should not try to receive Communion without going to Reconciliation. If the priest somehow knows that, it’s right for him to deny you Communion. I think he worded it wrong; he should have said “mortal sin,” instead of just saying that it was a “sin.”
@bakersdozen2 - Oh, scissor me timbers!
@SKANLYN - wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubnobodycareswubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
@Maverick83 - Bazinga!
@LetsTripTheLightFantastic - So I did google it last night, and just clicked on the first link that didn’t look like it would spam my inbox. It looked like a clip from a South Park episode. This is how I learned about scissoring.
Your answers were more amusing than the clip btw.
@bakersdozen2 - I figured you had a pretty good understanding of it, I was just having fun
Why would ANYONE want to participate in a ceremony that symbolically consumes the flesh and drinks the blood of a Jewish ZOMBIE!! But to deny someone that opportunity – if they choose – at their own mothers funeral is unconscionable.
That doesn’t make sense; every sin is as equal to another, so if he can’t give communion to sinners, no one could take it.
It’s something he did out of religious conviction. If I recall correctly, in their line of beliefs, homosexuals who are choosing to live in that life style are not allowed communion, period. Regardless to the time. I don’t understand why she would go up for communion knowing this. Doesn’t make sense to me.
I, personally, see it as a bit rude. If the person wants communion, let them have it. God will be their judge. Communion, in my eyes, is between the individual and God anyways. However, that being said, I understand why he did that. If I recall, it’s nothing new in that religions group. She should have expected it. I hate that she had this happen at her mother’s funeral, especially, but what did she expect from such a religious-oriented group? (I personally believe people are sometimes too focused on the “rules” they have created in their religion than on the heart of why they have their religion anyways, but that’s another topic in itself.) But yeah. That’s just what I think. I feel sorry for her, but I have to agree that the priest or whomever had the right to deny her communion. When we know people are in sin, we should confront them. Preferably in private & with the love of Christ all over us, but yeah. I hate that this happened to her, though. :/