December 15, 2012
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Arm the Children
I am hearing people talking about gun control. I want you to know that the mass killing of children at an elementary school is no time to talk about gun control.
Just remember that if the victims had been armed with guns this never would have happened.
Next time, we need to give the 5 and 6 year olds guns.
Comments (105)
If I had a child I’d at least give them a taser in the case of over-grabby authority figures.
I agree… can we morn the loss for a second before we get politics involved. I have a lot of thoughts on the matter, but for now, I pray.
It’s never too early to teach gun safety.
And it’s never too late for you to correct the typos in your post.
It’s not about gun control. It’s about a nut job. A similar event occurred in China today but you know what the victim used as a weapon? A knife. So what about knife control?
I lean mostly left except for when it comes to guns. Too many damn people write them off as dangerous before giving them a chance. A gun is only as dangerous as the user. So many people think it sounds extreme to carry a gun around with you wherever you go. Truth of the matter is that I’d rather have a gun and never need it than not have a gun and need it someday
@Baseballchik138 - It actually happened yesterday. I read about it last night. So sad
Pack a lunch and a gun.
not funny
what a really shitty thing to happen. i can’t believe we still don’t have responsible gun control laws. how do these people keep getting armed??
I won’t blame guns (entirely), more importantly is that there was a person who woke up today and thought, “Hey, I think I am going to that school and shoot some of those people.” Horrible, senseless tragedy for those children and adults who died, and the families who will mourn for them.
Better yet, repeal the 2nd Amendment and make sure no one is armed. It’s a relic of a babaric time when executions by guillotine in the public square were accepted as was slaughtering Native Americans and stealing their land.
I saw someone in the suggestions of yahoo say the same thing as you, Dan.
Okay, they were able to track, harass and follow my every move for months. I’m not joking. I was one of the ones the FBI tried to frame. Why can’t they stop these things from happening?
They can see into our minds, so why isn’t there an alert when someone has bad intentions?
I don’t blame guns. I blame the shooter. And I don’t blame knife manufacturers either. Just the people that use them to kill other people. Guns and knives can be used as protection or as a weapon. It’s up to the user to decide. A piece of paper that bans guns will totally protect me when a guy illegally obtains a gun when he illegally obtains his drugs and tries to shoot up the place.
Just mourn the loss of life today.
Arm the teachers. Or an administrator. I might be leaning toward that in my thinking.
Really, — oops, I almost said, “Dan, you’re a stupid fuck.” But I didn’t say it.
I don’t think there are any answers for this one. There will always be bad people and bad people will always do horrible things. How do you stop that?
I suppose it would be too much to ask for people to NOT politicize this until after Christmas or New Year’s at least.
you are being funny but we have to do something about this soon or it will happen again.
I’m making a petition to allow school guards to carry. And to atleast have one guard on elementary grounds. ….
All that aside…
May God give strength and wisdom to the affected families tolerate this tragic outcome.May he give them some kind of peace in this storm. :(
It is NOT the gun control issue that needs to be raised but the PARENT control issue. How many of you bought little johnny a nice fast computer so he could hack, slice, and shoot his way through the evening hours at home? How about a little Grand Theft Auto on the Xbox? Do you ever listen to the lyrics being pumped into his head on a daily basis through that nice iPhone you just bought him? Did you know that today in China, a man hacked up 22 children with a knife because China has strict gun control laws?
Sorry to say this and oh, how politically incorrect it is—but the violence will continue and get worse. I would rather (if it has to be) be shot and die quickly than be hacked up with a knife.
@Snoog420 - Each school where I live, has a law enforcement officer (Not a keystone cop or ‘security guard’) assigned to them. (From Elem – HS.) I think it can help. And they just don’t sit around all day at a desk. They interact with the students, get to know them, and take care of the very troubled when necessary.
it looks like Americans do a lot of praying as well as shooting…stop praying and cut the guns..
Arm the children with smarts.
@babybug329 - it’s not that he just woke up and killed a bunch of kids, he had a mental problem, multiple personality disorder, he obviously needed help that wasn’t being given. how about we straighten out out mental health facilities before changing our gun laws
@Losertastic - They are saying now that the guns were registered to his mother….go figure! We keep ours in a locked safe (other than the one that my husband has chosen to be his consealed carry gun, for which he has a licence). There are areas posted where it is not legal to carry them and then he puts it in a lock box that is bolted to the frame of the car. I have listened to both sides of the gun law argument and if you think back to our history boys got guns when they were 10 and were taken out by their fathers to hunt and use a gun properly. I don’t remember hearing of any school shootings then. A gun was a tool, no more no less than the user and from birth he had been taught to leave it alone. I don’t think guns are the problem.
are you sick in the head you do not give gun to no 5 or 6 year old at all
R.I.P to the 26 children and adults killed by the shooter. I think 20 memorial funds for the 20 children would be in order. No?
@Baseballchik138 - ”It’s not about gun control. It’s about a nut job. A similar event occurred in China today but you know what the victim used as a weapon? A knife. So what about knife control?”
Thank you. In so many words, you’ve succinctly and surgically devestate what you thought to be your own position.
What your analysis demonstrates is while we can’t control an individuals motivation or his mental illness, we can control the tools he has avaliable to commit his henious crimes. The only reason that knife-attacks are so prevelent in China is because the Chinese government has tight control on guns.
Imagine if the same knife-wielding madman was armed with a handgun in China? What about a handgun with extended magazine capacity as in Tuscon, AZ? What about if that man was armed with an assualt rifle and a bullet-proof vest?
If you don’t think guns make it easier to kill then fuck you.
@Celestial_Teapot - this, a thousand times this. the guy had a SEMIAUTOMATIC rifle. the only reason those exist is to kill tons of people in a short amount of time. no civilian needs to have access to one.
another point i’d make is that a knife is a multi-use tool. guns, on the other hand, were invented solely for the purpose of causing injury or death. to see them as just another tool is to ignore the entire history of human violence.
maybe it’s okay to have guns for self-defense but there should be a restriction to what a person could own. a small one would be enough. the big ones should just be in places where you want to shoot because you’re angry and nobody can own them
@Baseballchik138 - The comparison to China is a false equivalency that actually supports the need for gun control.
Take some time to think before jumping to the defense of gun rights-
Did you consider the differences of the results of the two attacks? If you did, you would realize the children in China were WOUNDED rather than KILLED by the madman rather than killed. Can you not see the stark difference in the fact that those kids are still ALIVE?
What was the difference in the outcome? That a knife isn’t as efficient at killing massive amounts of people in a short period of time as a gun? Could that be it?
And if that’s the case, and it CLEARLY is, why shouldn’t there be a discussion on controlling guns as weapons of mass destruction?
Shouldn’t a line be drawn that states certain guns with massive clips of ammo should be under more control? Or do you just chalk it up to “just one of those things” that is happening with alarming frequency and pray that you’re not caught in such an event?
Why is that these shootings don’t seem to happen much if at all at privately-owned and -operated schools (counting Catholic and church schools here), or with homeschooled kids?
Ft. Hood, where Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 and wounded 32, was and is a “gun-free zone” just like the public schools. So are all of the rest of America’s military facilities – you generally aren’t allowed to carry any weapons that aren’t issued to you by your unit. Maybe we should rename the military “the disarmed services” ?
If this “guns are the problem” rhetoric was based in reality, then gun shows, gun stores and shooting ranges would be ankle-deep in blood. Yet the exact opposite is the reality – from my experience, gun stores and gun shows are the safest places to be.
@Composing_Life - The parents of the children attacked in China will be visiting their kids in the hospital- the parents in the US will be seeing theirs in the morgue. With all due respect, your false equivalency of the China attack to this one is ridiculous and insulting.
The US parents would CERTAINLY have preferred that the attacker here could only get access to a knife rather than a gun- as there would be far less causalities today.
@Losertastic / @SKANLYN / @locomotiv / @Celestial_Teapot / @flapper_femme_fatale / @SoullFire –
I personally have two of the same sort of rifle that this idiot left in the car unused (an M4 clone and an HK-91 clone), as well as two of the type of pistol that he did end up using (a Glock 17 and a Glock 22). I have NEVER used ANY of my guns to initiate force against others like this, so I refuse to submit to further regulation of my guns by any level of government. If you truly believe that my guns should be taken away from me, then come and get them. And no schluffing the task off to the feds – you have to do your own door-kicking.
@mikewb1971 - Okay. What’s your address?
Yo@mikewb1971 - There is no reason for any private citizen to have a gun and I question cops having them as well, especially with all the non-lethal options available. If it were up to me they’d be dragging your ass off to jail right now. You killed those children with your right to bear arms bullshit.
@Baseballchik138 - There’s a difference between 22 wounded children and 20 dead children. If i had to choose a tragedy, I’d pick the former. It’s a lot harder to kill 20 people with a knife.
@i_am_not_short - Only difference is, a gun can kill 20 people A LOT easier than a knife.
@SoullFire - “No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.”
Read more:http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/china-knife-attack-22-children-1-adult-hurt-at-school#ixzz2F5vuCx3a
Because no one ever dies in a knife fight, right?
@sarahsmurfette - So what if the teachers goes crazy? Arm the students to keep them in check? When does it end?
@Celestial_Teapot – Do you seriously believe that you’re just going to knock on my door and I’ll hand over my hardware voluntarily? No, I won’t – I’m a rather enthusiastic supporter of the Second Amendment. While I won’t initiate force against you, I WILL defend against your attempt at theft using whatever level of force is necessary. Including using those very weapons. Get the idea?
Now multiply this a few thousand, maybe a million, times to see the big picture – there’s plenty of people who think I’m being soft-hearted here.
If you’re happy and you know it, shake your chains!
If you’re happy and you know it, shake your chains!
If you’re happy and you know it and you really wanna show it
If you’re happy and you know it, shake your chains!
@ShamrockLover - Maybe you can’t stop it but you can limit the damage by banning weapons that can murder massive amounts of people in a short period of time. Let them have a knife and see how many people he can kill then.
@Composing_Life - The children in China were
wounded
. The children in Connecticut are
dead
. BIG difference. The Chinese kids are alive and will be released from the hospital eventually because the madman couldn’t use an efficient killing tool like a gun
because
of China’s strict gun control laws. The Connecticut kids will be buried because people like you can’t see other solutions than putting more guns on the street.
@coolmonkey – Why doesn’t this sort of thing happen at private schools, Catholic schools, church schools? Why doesn’t it happen with homeschoolers – lots homeschooling parents are gun people, too.
Why doesn’t this sort of thing happen at gun shows, at gun stores or at shooting ranges? Plenty of guns and ammo at those places – why aren’t those places ankle-deep in blood?
@mikewb1971 - A shooting that happens at home is just called murder. It happens. A lot.
Religious schools get shot up too. I think some Christian school got shot up in April.
A gun show represents like, 0.0001% of public places. If you want everyone everywhere to be carrying an AK-47 then go to Somalia.
@SKANLYN – Good luck on getting the cops to give up their guns. Why don’t you try taking away theirs befiore mine? Physically, I mean. But you’re too much of a coward to personally try taking mine, much less theirs. And I’ve been hearing and reading these cheesy attempts to guilt-trip me and my fellow gun owners for over twenty years now. Epic fail.
@mikewb1971 - Your response is an excellent example of why there so many roadblocks to having a “sane and rational” discussion on gun control. Thanks for the “invite”, but I prefer to work through the channels of civil discussion and policy rather than trying to “opt out” of the responsibilities of being a US citizen just because you don’t agree with someone.
Your response to an idea you don’t like is to make threats of violence. That really supports American democracy and ideals…NOT.
Be sure to send this or a similar message to your Washington rep so you can be put on the “special list” ASAP.
@mikewb1971 - No. You taunted and suggested I take your guns by force, I said I was up for the task. Give me an address and I’ll pay you a visit. (I travel quite a bit for work, I’m sure I’d be able to swing by your neck of the wood.)
My point is shut the fuck up and reign in your shallow bravado. If you talk shit be willing to back it up, fucker.
@SasGal - You clearly seem to have MISSED the entire point, which is NOT that knives can’t be deadly, but guns, especially semi-automatic ones with expanded ammo clips are far more efficient in killing.
Or are you trying to make the ludicrous case that if the US shooter had been armed with a knife instead of his guns, the amount of casualties would be at the same level?
@SoullFire – Apparently your idea of a ‘”sane and rational” discussion on gun control’ is that my side should be willing to agree with you unconditionally and do whatever you say so you can have your warm fuzzy that you “did something” and “made a difference” concerning a tragedy that me and my fellow gun rights advocates had no part in perpetrating. The last twenty years of politics should be evidence that we’re not willing to roll over and play dead on your behalf, just so you can feel good for a bit. Bill Clinton learned this the hard way in 1994, as did Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. (I haven’t been a Republican since 1994.)
Holding us responsible for that tragedy is akin to holding every gay person responsible for AIDS. The notion that I’m responsible for someone else’s misdeeds simply because I own items of property that you object to is one that I’m not willing to swallow at all. I don’t want to take away your car because of a hit-and-run murder that you had no part in. What I want is the same consideration where my guns are concerned – it’s malicious usage of guns that’s the problem, not the objects themselves.
Regardless, my side has tons of statistics, history, legal precedent and anecdotal evidence to back up our contention that such laws do not only fail to prevent such massacres, but actually make the problem worse.
@Celestial_Teapot – Drop me a PM next time you’re in Albuquerque. Time for you to shut the fuck up, then, fucker.
@coolmonkey - your comment would have been thoughtful had you chosen to use respect. but your final pseudo-guilt trip remark “people like me” ruins any credibility you may have had.
@Composing_Life - Your inability to discern a hurt kid from a dead one doesn’t earn you my respect, it earns you my pity. I’m not trying to convince people like you about anything since your solution is to put more guns on the street to control the guns on the street. I’m just hoping some passerby will read our arguments and try to think of some other way to stop this madness.
@SoullFire - If he had taken out the adult in the classroom, what would have saved the children? Knives are silent. Guns are not.
@mikewb1971 - Wow, you’re a tough guy.
http://www.okcupid.com/profile/mikewb1971
@mikewb1971 - “Apparently your idea of a ‘”sane and
rational” discussion on gun control’ is that my side should be willing
to agree with you unconditionally and do whatever you say so you can
have your warm fuzzy that you “did something” and “made a difference”
concerning a tragedy that me and my fellow gun rights advocates had no
part in perpetrating.”
Interesting – I don’t recall writing anything remotely like that in any of my posts- let me check again – nope, not there. Apparently you prefer to just make things up and claim I said them. Again you continue to prove my point about the problems of having a rational discussion on the matter.
The fact that you’re not even willing to even try to discuss solutions that could be presented that make sense to keep these type of tragedies from occurring over and over again speaks more about your own selfishness and lack of concern of others.
We can only hope the majority of gun owners aren’t as irrational as your responses make you to be.
@SasGal - You can’t be serious, right? For your sake, I hope you are being facetious rather than trying to make an actual point.
Do you think the teacher will remain silent as he is being attacked with a knife? Do you believe the kids will remain silent if they witness this and continue to remain still and silent if the attacker turns on them? Do you think they are going to stay still and not try to run away and silently let themselves be killed one by one no matter how much pain knife cuts make? And you think all these events will come together so that the attacker will be MORE effective killing large numbers of people with a knife instead of a gun? Really???!?
By the way, guns also have silencers, so they can be just as quiet.
@Celestial_Teapot – Is this supposed to scare me?
@mikewb1971 -
“I have NEVER used ANY of my guns to initiateforce against others like this, so I refuse to submit to further regulation of my guns by any level of government.”
you think i give a flying fuck about your history of gun use? your weapons exist for the purpose of mass killing, nothing more or less. unless you’re a trained military professional carrying under the authority of someone else, i see no reason to trust you with semiautomatic weapons.
and considering you’re outright threatening government officials who’d attempt to enforce the law, i view you to be as much of a danger to society as anyone who’s already committed a massacre.
@Celestial_Teapot -
oh my word. this is the best part:
“I’m a live-and-let-live guy. If you’re not hurting anyone else with what you do, you’ve got every right in the world to do it.”
says the guy who’s defending a murderer’s right to have had legal access to a semiautomatic weapon. what a moron.
@SoullFire - The teacher was his mother. Do you think she would have thought to scream if he took a knife out and slit her throat quickly? You’re not very smart. I am not trying to change your mind because you seem incapable of reasonable thought and instead treat the world as if it works exactly as you think.
I don’t play with morons. I’m done feeding the trolls. This was a nice trip to the zoo.
@mikewb1971 - No, I was hoping your OKCupid profile to more accurately reflect your interest in guns:
http://www.okcupid.com/profile/mikewb1971
Some girls dig that, you know.
@mikewb1971 -
“Holding us responsible for that tragedy is akin to holding every gay person responsible for AIDS.”
oh Jesus, you aren’t a homophobe too, are you? newsflash: heterosexual people get AIDS.
@SasGal - Again you don’t seem capable of grasping even the most simple train of thought. So what if he manages to take out his mother without her being able to scream? You passed over the fact that he WON’T be nearly as quick or efficient chasing down frightened screaming kids with a knife as he would with a gun.
Let me spoon feed you since you don’t seem able to connect the dots-
It takes TIME to kill people with a knife – MUCH more time than to spray a room with bullets. That’s time for other people to act – either to call for help or to run away.
The biggest joke of all is calling someone a moron when it’s you who clearly needs to look in a mirror.
So keep having your delusion that a knife would have been worse than a gun. Did you even graduate high school? Pardon me, make that grade school?
@SoullFire - Look at you with your big bad insults! I’m going to cry myself a little wittle wiver of teaws now! Apparently saying I’m done arguing with you is too much for your thick skull to comprehend! Because kindergardeners would never ever scream on their last day of school before winter break, on a Friday! I bet that would get everyone’s attention! And their kungfu and super speed would get the out of that class room like FLASH! They would save the day because they TOTALLY know they should run for help when that is happening. Your hypotheticals are disguised as points, but they’re not actual points.
Go ahead and blame the guns, like every other hoplop out there.
@SasGal - “Apparently saying I’m done arguing with you is too much for your thick skull to comprehend!”
You just said you were done, and yet you had to reply again – now who’s the thick skulled moron who can’t even follow their own words???
You’re making this too easy for all to see. You are truly embarrassing yourself and the funny, or sad thing is you don’t even know it.
I’m sure after reading all your “intelligent” responses, the NRA would kindly not have you trying to defend gun rights as you are doing much more damage than good.
@flapper_femme_fatale – So, oh Sage of the Internet, exactly do you know who is and isn’t a murderer beforehand? How does someone merely owning a firearm cause murder? That’s like saying that pencils cause typo errors, or cars cause drunk driving.
Nor am I a homophobe as you allege – I never said that gays were responsible for AIDS, only that you are like people who say that when you blame anyone who owns guns for the Connecticut massacre just because they own guns.
you think i give a flying fuck about your history of gun use? your weapons exist for the purpose of mass killing, nothing more or less.
Why then should I care in the slightest about surrendering to your hysterical demands that “something get done,” just so that you can say that you “made a difference” ?
i see no reason to trust you with semiautomatic weapons.
Then why should I trust you with a motor vehicle? Traffic accidents kill more people in America than guns.
@SoullFire – As for my taking part in “discuss[ing] solutions that could be presented that make sense to keep these type of tragedies from occurring over and over again,” I simply don’t see how further restrictions on private gun ownership would prevent these sort of tragedies. More to the point, I haven’t taken part in anything like the Sandy Hook massacre, nor do I plan to, so I don’t see why I should “give it up” just because I own items similar to those that the shooter stole from his parents to conduct the massacre. What’s your plan to prevent these massacres without restricting the rights of everyone else?
To me, the presence of firearms is incidental – yeah, China has restrictive gun laws – and they’re disobeyed more and more as people steal guns from the PLA, or just make their own. Yet these sorts of massacres don’t happen in Switzerland, Serbia or Yemen, where the per capita rates of gun ownership are the next highest below the United States. Why is that?
And why is it that these sorts of “active shooters”:as the cops call them don’t do their thing at gun shows, gun stores and shooting ranges? By the gun-banner logic, those would be the places that these killings should happen at the most – lots of guns present, lots of ammo present.
I read, that the law that grants people the right to carry weappons with them, is about 200 years old.
It is really very sad, that there is absolute no progress in this point until today.
Cheers Michel
Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that Obama outlawed all civilian firearms ownership tomorrow by executive order, and that move passed muster at the Supreme Court.
1. The borders are basically unsealable – I cite as evidence that the cops only catch only about 5 percent of the drugs that come in, and the fact that there’s over 10 million people here without the permission of the State Department.
2. BATFE estimates that there are about 270,000,000 firearms in the domestic private sector. Other estimates say that number is low by a factor of three.
3. The United States has the world’s largest supplies of precision machine tools.
Summary – Anyone who wants a gun after this hypothetical ban is enacted will be able to either import, steal or make one.
All these proposed bans do (besides giving organized crime another line of product) is piss off the people who own guns but don’t go on shooting sprees. They won’t prevent the next massacre in the slightest.
@mikewb1971 - The problem is you’ve already made up your mind on the subject and aren’t open-minded on taking in anyone else’s point of view.
That much is clear from your initial GLOBAL response to all who mentioned having a talk on gun control to come “visit” you to just try and take your guns away from you, followed by putting words in other peoples mouths.
“I simply don’t see how further restrictions on private gun ownership would prevent these sort of tragedies.”
Right, and you are the all-seeing and all-knowing, therefore no one else on this planet could possibly offer some workable solutions that the majority of folks could agree to- so no point in even trying to engage in discussing the matter at all- is that how it works?
I’m not familiar with the gun stats of other countries, but here’s a US gun stat question for you-
Why are pro gun states leading the nation in per capita firearm death rates?
http://www.vpc.org/press/0804gundeath.htm
@SoullFire – Why should I take the viewpoint of those wanting to outlaw my property? They don’t seem willing to take my viewpoint – if they did, they wouldn’t demand such legislation in the first place.
So what “workable solutions that the majority of folks could agree to” do you have in mind that don’t restrict those who refrain from going on shooting sprees? Why should I agree to restrictions upon my life when I haven’t gone on any shooting sprees?
As for the VPC article, I noticed that they didn’t provide any link to the CDC site showing where they got their data – here’s the map page. If you set it for four intervals in the “Map Detail Options” part, the map looks like VPC is right. But when you set it for 9 intervals, then it looks a bit different – Alabama, Tennessee and Montana aren’t in the top group anymore, while DC (with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation) remains in the top group on both maps.
It should also be noted that the VPC article makes no attempt whatsoever to discern whether or not people were killed by accident or intentionally, whether or not any homicides were justifiable, how many were suicides, those sorts of things. All it says is “more guns means more death.” Rather simplistic, isn’t it? This is the quality of research that I’m supposed to abide by in surrendering my liberty?
@mikewb1971 - Again, you are jumping to conclusions based on your own assumptions. Show me the link to this group that wants to ban and outlaw all firearms, and show proof that ties the majority of folks who are open to discuss gun control to this group. You already tried to group me and others in to such a group without knowing anything about us- based on your own “quality research” I suppose?
“So what “workable solutions that the majority
of folks could agree to” do you have in mind that don’t restrict those
who refrain from going on shooting sprees?”
Do you understand what having an open discussion is? It’s for a group of people to start talking about the matter and sharing of ideas. Unlike you, I don’t claim to already have the answers, but I’m open to the topic being brought up for serious discussion.
So based on your logic that as long as the majority of folks behave with a certain product, that product should not have any restrictions whatsoever, why not apply it to everything?
As long as “most” people are okay with RPG’s, land mines, flame throwers, armed drones, C4, bazooka’s, etc, we should have no restrictions whatsoever on who can own these and where they can be stored- and when the occasional disgruntled person decides to blow up half the neighborhood, that’s just the way it goes to preserve everyone’s individual rights?
Let’s take it further, why do we even need drivers licenses? Why should you be forced to prove you have the capability to drive on public roads when you have never been in accident, right? For doctors who are self taught, why do they need a license to practice medicine if they personally never screwed up with a patient? After all, why should “their” freedoms be restricted to some degree of control due to the faults of others?
Just because “some” drunks can’t handle their liquor, it must be unfair to ban excessive drinking and driving for everyone right? Wouldn’t want to rob the “freedom” of those who have the ability to drink lots of alcohol and still drive well.
As for the chart, what the stats indicate doesn’t change just because you split it into 9 shades versus 4. Alabama, Montana, Tennessee, are STILL among the leading states in firearm deaths. Just because it’s a shade or two “lighter” doesn’t remove it from the the top of the list – it’s not about just counting only the “darkest” states, which will obviously be spread out more as you increase the intervals. The numerical order of the list isn’t changing.
“All it says is “more guns means more death.”
Rather simplistic, isn’t it?”
Haven’t you been trying to make the case that states or countries with less gun control fare better than those that have more? This “simplistic” result challenges your statements and assumptions.
“This is the quality of research that I’m supposed to abide by in surrendering my liberty?”
Where’s your “quality research” to contradict it then? Just asking why gun shows don’t have violence doesn’t pass muster.
The police are responsible for public safety. Where were all of the police with assault rifles we saw too late after the killing. If they were responsible and managed properly they would at least one stationed at the main entrance of every school in the country.
2nd comment on this blog-maybe we need to arm the teachers and principle and other employees of the schools.
I worked with a dr. who was armed and I felt good about that. She was a good shot,too. Well, at the range anyway.
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@mikewb1971 - Unlike you, I’m a civilized human being so I’m not going to take up arms and come to get your guns knowing that I’d have to take your life to do it. Then I’d be no better than you – a child murderer. And yes, people like you were absolutely responsible for the death of those children.
@MomWithoutaMinivan - I agree. Today there may be launched another great, expensive crusade that will not help.
Sardonically and well-stated.
@James2012 - Dan was being facetious, James.
What a terrible Christmas this shall be for the families and friends of the victims. Go to church tomorrow!
@mommachatter - a gun was a tool? for what? lighting a fire? building a shelter? a gun can only be used for killing – and hunting, while it may be considered a sport, is still killing. listen, i understand that in colonial times, people may have hunted for food and even for fun, but they also had polio and the black plague and wooden teeth. if we’ve evolved so far beyond those things, why do we insist on providing people with weapons in everyday life? from my experiences, guns have caused a million times more damage than they have any good.
wow! there are actually people on here daring to say that WE are responsible for yesterday’s shooting?!? well for “soulfire” and a few others – none of you asked me my stance on gun control. i, and many others, DO believe in gun CONTROL, but NOT taking away our right to bear arms. it is a RIGHT. i agree that more strict laws need to be in place and i totally support a purchaser-paid-for psychological screening AND whatever else we can do to kill a sale to someone unstable.
before you dramatize your ignorance by saying gun proponents killed the babies yesterday, ask us exactly where we stand. i have blocked a couple of you now because of the insulting and unnecessary hate talk. that is so sad because you are all my brothers and sisters. however, it is exactly that irresponsible hate talk that causes people who are emotionally weak, to pick up a weapon in the first place and take out their hurt and frustration on innocence. be part of the cure and shut up unless you KNOW where a person stands WITHOUT assuming.
and YOU, dan – all the greatest forums online have a moderator – or at least someone who will encourage mature comments on such an emotional issue. i feel like you pick up these issues, throw them into the cage and watch the animals shred it like meat thrown to lions and tigers. where is YOUR moral responsibility to at least post YOUR OWN stance? i sometimes think you toss this shit out there and sit back and watch us play. i do not like that visual so unless you take some responsibility for your site, i am not returning either.
and for myself and the rest of you getting bent out of shape due to raw emotions, i suggest we step back and ask the really tough questions such as “did answering the question on this blog bring people closer together? or did it drive us further apart?”
I think that all that can be said is how sad and unfortunate it is that people can be so horribly evil as to shamelessly slaughter innocent children. We can’t take away the right to bear arms. It is there for a reason, the very reason this country was founded upon. We have guns to protect ourselves from a government gone awry and to protect ourselves and our families from harm. Alas, we cannot change or know the intentions of others.
My suggestion to the world would be to pay attention to what is happening around you. If you have a friend, family member, or neighbor who is going through a rough time talk to them. Comfort them. It is only through love that we can truly change the world. If people would pay attention to one another, perhaps someone would have known that this person was unstable, and would lovingly have made the call to prevent that person from harming others. I cannot honestly believe that there is not someone who noticed something awry about this person.
And as for fighting over gun control issues, it doesn’t do any good. It just upsets people. We all want the same thing: to be safe. But the truth of the matter is that people often do awful things. We merely live sheltered lives in this country from the sheer amount of horrendous tragedies people are capable of creating.
@Composing_Life - I’ve logged in many hours on various GTA games, and yet I haven’t killed anyone, and neither has anyone I’ve known who have played said games. I don’t think technology is to blame here.
@Composing_Life - If you have an issue with any poster that is making the case that you or anyone else is directly responsible for the shooting, I suggest you direct your response to those individuals.
NONE
of my posts make any reference or accuse anyone of that, so why are you calling my name out individually after such an inflammatory accusation as if I was one of those who did?
Next, you call out people for having unnecessary “hate talk” but feel free to add to the negative talk by calling people ignorant.
If you truly do support and believe in having a rational conversation on gun control, you have a bizarre way of showing it.
These were the original statements in your post:
“It is NOT the gun control issue that needs to be raised but the PARENT control issue.”
“Did you know that today in China, a man hacked up 22 children with a knife because China has strict gun control laws?”
“I would rather (if it has to be) be shot and die quickly than be hacked up with a knife.”
The sure doesn’t sound like you think ANYTHING should be done to correct the situation, and in fact, are making the case that it was BETTER for the madman to have a semiautomatic gun instead of a knife since it would mean a quicker death, and by that I guess “more humane”, for the kids.
Do you not realize how INCREDIBLY RUDE and INSENSITIVE that is to the all the victims? Then you wonder why you get any negative responses from that?
Why don’t you go up to one of the parents victims and tell them gun control isn’t the problem and that their children were “better off” being killed quickly with a gun than with a knife and use the China attack, whose children are still ALIVE, as a reference to support your claim. Let me know if you get the “non emotional and bent out of shape” response you seek.
The fact that you rather attack people and defend your statements rather than admit any error on your part makes you part of the problem you are trying to call attention to. You can start “cleaning up” the place by apologizing for the rash words of your own post.
To be clear- using the China knife attack as an example of why “gun control” isn’t the problem and stating death by gun is preferred over the China result is NOT advocating or supporting gun control in any way- so you shouldn’t get “bent out of shape” if people assume the opposite.
@Composing_Life - As a parent I exercised great control when teaching my daughter at 5 years old to load and shoot a shotgun and handgun. My son at 5 could break down, clean and reassemble a Glock 40. And still to this day, 12 and 20 years later, they do not point toy guns, squirt guns, potato guns, finger guns or real guns at others.
And for Christmas I bought my daughter a new computer/Apple thin thing (she bought it and just sent me the bill) and my son got a 500.00 gift certificate for GameStop……………………
I watched Cowboys shoot Indians ALL my childhood on TV and loved gory and bloody movies but never had even the slightest thought of or inclination to inflict similar damage to anyone or anything and neither do my kids after playing GTA or listening to Rap. Point being you can be surrounded by bad stuff all day long, but when the parents are grounded, you are grounded. But then again, Res Ipsa.
Good thoughts
justmarty
WHAT?! Give guns to kids? That’s just stupid. Maybe you think its a good idea because you live in a country that is known by their law enforcement and order they have over almost everything that happens there. You live in a crystal bubble. But for people like me, that lives in a South American country, Venezuela to be more specific, this just sounds stupid. You know what would happen if you gave a 10 year old a gun? Disaster. ”Hey mom! Today at school I tasered another kid because he just would not leave me alone.” or ”I shot that guy because he said my drawing was ugly”. And don’t you dare say this would not happen, because kids lately fight for even more childish things. If a fifteen year old can’t handle an arm, you think a six year old can? Stupid.
@RighteousBruin - ?
@michelmthomas - Dear Michael, you are right. The law that allows people within the United States the right to keep and bear arms is over 200 years old. It was written to protect us from wild animals, bad people and repressive governments.
Being as you list Germany as your country of origin, you should know about gun control. They first implemented it there in the mid 1930′s. Germany went down hill from there for different reasons than the USA is experiencing.
We need as a people to find the root of the problem and it is not the guns. I have many, many guns that have never been fired in almost 200 years so they are not responsible for any deaths. Smaller less intrusive government is part of the solution, the rest is the restoration of some traditional values. You know some of those much, much more than 200 years old, like life is sacred……………just an idea to start with.
Good thoughts,
justmarty
PS. Do they still get all worked up for Formula 1 races there now that Michael is running in the 7-10 positions?? I have noticed he has some serious home grown competition now as well. Have a great Christmas.
Everyone’s forgetting that the one teacher had a bunch of guns, and then her son killed her.
@SKANLYN / @SoullFire – It’s obvious to me that we’re simply not going to agree on this issue. I’m OK with that. I’ve no intentions of changing my views for your stamps of approval on my thought processes. The both of you can continue to call me “heartless” and “uncivilized” all you want. I’m OK with that, too.
@mikewb1971 - Don’t change your views for me. Change them so no more school children have to die..
Sorry to point this out, Dan, but poor timing and in very poor taste.
@mikewb1971 - Not agree to what issue? My point was having a rational discussion on what can be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening over and over again with increasing frequency.
I guess that is the “point” you vehemently disagree with- that any discussion on how to keep weapons of mass destruction like automatic guns out of the hands of the unstable is tantamount to an attack on “your” civil liberties and therefore should be summarily dismissed before it even starts.
I find it interesting that after making numerous posts about how “statistics” favored less control over guns, once I show you a real and linked stat that shows the opposite, rather than show your own credible proof to refute it, you decide that it’s NOW time to move on.
As I said earlier, I can only hope the majority of gun owners display more open mindedness in trying to find a solution to these violent tragedies rather than chalk off the deaths of innocent children to preserve every iota of your convenience in getting access to these weapons.
Shouldn’t we focus more on donating to research on mental illnesses, showing respect and empathy to those who have experienced the losses in this incident, and stop pointing our fingers at the supposed lack of gun control for what happened?
For a serious answer …
What we need is for designated teachers to conceal carry in a responsible way where here is no way for a kid to accidently find the gun. Think about it, there is absolutely NO SAFETY in a school. Guns are illegal in schools so they are an absolute fish in a barrel shooting situation. Want to kill people who have absolutely no possible way of defending themselves. Go to a foolish public school. Sorry but we are in a day where we need to protect our kids and our properties. Everyone should conceal carry to stop crap like this.
I live in Oregon 3 minutes from the Clackamas Town Center that just, the day before, had a crazy guy shoot a few people in the mall. No one had a gun so he had free reign. Had I been there we would have had a different story altogether because he would be dead before he could do anymore damage.
In my opinion it is our duty to protect our families and people around us. Get a gun and a permit and help society please.
@mikewb1971 -
“So, oh Sage of the Internet, exactly do you know who is and isn’t a murderer beforehand? ”
it’d be pointless to determine whether someone is fit to own a gun after the fact. the point of gun control is to prevent unnecessary death.
“ you are like people who say that when you blame anyone who owns guns for the Connecticut massacre just because they own guns.”
… are you mentally handicapped, or just an idiot? where did i say i’m blaming anyone?
“Why then should I care in the slightest about surrendering to your hysterical demands that “something get done,” just so that you can say that you “made a difference” ?”
that’s the beauty of law: you don’t have to care. if a law is passed that bans the private ownership of automatic weapons, you can either comply or go to jail. i couldn’t care less about whether you like it.
“Then why should I trust you with a motor vehicle? Traffic accidents kill more people in America than guns.”
yes, but cars were invented for a purpose other than death.
@AMIGOS_WE_THREE -
Thanks your your reply.
As I am member of our schools parent’s council, I wonder if our school has plans to prevent these rampages.
I will have to ask them about this point.
By the way, do you have an idea how long this phenomenon exists ?
In the times I went to school (the 70ths) I never heard about rampages at schools, neither in the US nor here in GMY … I wonder, when this started –
All the best,
)
Michel, only 3 credits rest
p.s.: Sorry, I’m not very interested in Formula one. I don’t understand, why these people love this, but they certainly do
You’re disgusting. How could you turn something like this into a joke. This is exactly why I hate liberals.
Funny how people are quick to blame our gun control laws. From what I’ve read, the gunman tried to get a gun himself a few days before the event. However, he didn’t want to wait through the waiting period and didn’t want to be given a background check, so he left. Funny, from the looks of it our system works. The only problem here was that the mother left her guns lying around the house.
Can’t even imagine where you found that photo Theo or if it was photoshopped. In any case, the answer to your question in all cases is NO. Φ ≡
sometimes I wonder why I read these
@Losertastic - You have made a very strong point. With the exception of hunting for food, guns are not creative. So I ask myself why do I feel the way I do? I think it is because of the predictable/unpredictable nature of man. An animal is not generally agressive toward man but can be if frightened or rabid so maybe guns are not necessary for that other than food and we all know where the local supermarket is. Diseases are indescriminate, they hit the bad and the good without much preference but unfortunately it is not so with man. Animals are generally only posessive of the land they stand upon and become defensive over a general threat and their herd, pack, flock etc during mating season…this entirely relates to survival. For every privledge there is an equil responsibility, man is a sentient basically selfserving beast and can use the knowledge for good or evil. So I am like the old she bear, I would rather look for berries and honey but if a wolf threatens me or my cubs I will defend them to the death, It takes the perpetrator of an incident aproximately .37 if a second to pull a trigger, it takes police 6-7 minutes to respond at best and that is after you have found the phone and called them. Police arrived at the school 11 minutes after the killer was buzzed in. And it was all over but the crying.
When liquor was outlawed…the price went sky high and there was men who made it, sold it, illegally, marajuana is being smuggled in by the ton as is heroin, and all other illegal drugs, It is traded in schools like baseball cards. We could outlaw cars, I am sure there would be less motor vehicle accidents when we drive horse and buggies.
Yet people delude themselves they can outlaw guns successfully. I’m sorry it don’t work that way. One man accurately shooting a gun might could have saved the 3,000 at the World Trade Center.instead, 3,000 died and the killer didn’t even use a gun.
But thank you for responding to my comment, it made me think, and it wasn’t rude or condesending; just an opposing opinion.
@mommachatter - and thank you for replying so politely, as well.
Let the kids take guns to school. On the way home the can bag something for dinner.