A school board in Florida is setting goals based on race.
The school board wants 90% of Asians to read at or above their grade level. (I always have higher standards for comments from Asians too).
The school board wants 88% of white students to read at or above their grade level.
They want 81 percent of Hispanics to read at or above their grade level. (This would make sense if there were language issues).
They want 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level.
Do you think we should expect more from Asians than Blacks?
The school board wants 90% of Asians to read at or above their grade level. (I always have higher standards for comments from Asians too).The school board wants 88% of white students to read at or above their grade level.They want 81 percent of Hispanics to read at or above their grade level. (This would make sense if there were language issues).They want 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level.Here is the link: LinkDo you think we should expect more from Asians than Blacks?
Comments (91)
I think we should expect the same from everyone. the color of your skin has nothing to do with how well you read.
No, things should not be expected based on race, but majority of people categorize that way anyways.
But I guess if school boards are expecting more from asians, athletics should expect more from blacks! jkjk.
In the end expectations don’t mean much unless it’s for/on yourself. =]
Of course not. This is very discouraging to those students. I don’t think the school should have set these expectations to begin with.
I’ve been lowering my expectations from everyone lately.
I work in a high tech field and have several black co-workers. So I tend to think that the idea that blacks can’t get good grades and attain high levels of achievement is a bunch of, well, malarkey.
When it comes to cooking, yes.
Sounds like Florida.
Atrocious. Everyone should have the same high standard. Otherwise you’re just telling people they aren’t good enough.
No. A person’s ability to learn is not determined by one’s skin tone. I think the school would get better results if the faculty encouraged all students to succeed.
WOW. America is so stupid. I can’t even believe this conversation is happening.
……….”While Rome burns”
Absolutely.
It is in the interest of the school district to serve all students: rich, poor; white, black, asian, hispanic. The discrepency in the level of academic achievement between different racial demographics is a matter of fact– and is symptomatic of a number of underlying factors.
Compared to their Caucasian and Asian counterparts, there are social, economic, and cultural factors that tend to more greatly disadvantage African-American kids. It should be up to the school districts to do what they can to mitigate or make up for the factors. All students should be succeeding, and closing the racial statistical gap is only a roadmark towards that goal.
Asians are doing better than Blacks. It’s a matter of fact. It is up to the school districts to target the underlying causes. Closing the gap would be a metric for the success of their policies.
well one would hope that you would encourage all races the same.
@randomneuralfirings - “I work in a high tech field and have several black co-workers. So I tend to think that the idea that blacks can’t get good grades …”
Let’s be real now. There is a disproportionate representation of Asians and Indians and an under-representation of African-Americans in the tech fields.
The policies of the district isn’t denying that there are great black students at the upper edges of their academic bell curve, but that their distribution, as a whole, is skewed lower than they should be.
The median and mean achievements of the black students int he Flordia school district is lower than their Asian and Whtie counterparts. It’s a matter of fact. It’s absolutely undesirable, and the right thing to do is for the school district to close the gap– and not denying the problem.
The Supreme Court will be ruling on an affirmative action case during the current session. For those interested in this article, follow the SC as that will be right up your alley.
Its socio-economic circumstances that shape the learning of different races not their races specifically. Ie someone in a better neighbourhood with more opportunities would definitely learn better more than someone from a bad neighbourhood with negative influences. Overall asians tend to strive more economically to provide more for their children and push or pressure their children to attain higher grades.
Not when it comes to packages.
That’s really just building on stereotype. I think equal expectations is the fair way to go.
@ShimmerBodyCream - I had to LOL at your comment.
All generalizations are bad!
Yup, this is terrible, and you can bet it’s going to go a long way in building and corroding the confidence of the students involved. As for ME, I would bet the person that came up with this idea is was some sort of bored sociopath. Honestly… divide the school population based on racial stereotypes.
There’s no doubt there’s a lot more to race. For example, though this may not be true in this case, it’s possible many of the hispanic and black students come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and less educated families, which could create more at-home stress, etc.
It’s also true these students don’t live in a vacuum. All of them are bombarded, daily, with media messages stereotyping them all. So you can bet many the hispanics and blacks subconsciously expect less of themselves and more of the asians. It’s just ridiculous how openly this school is willing to contribute to the problem…
It’s a if you can’t beat it, join it sort of strategy. It’s appalling….
I say we’re all individuals, so the hell with the quotas
You Americans are so weird.
I think this is a crucial part of the article: “But the Florida Department of Education said the goals recognize that not every group is starting from the same point and are meant to be ambitious but realistic.
As an example, the percentage of white students scoring at or above grade level (as measured by whether they scored a 3 or higher on the reading FCAT) was 69 percent in 2011-2012, according to the state. For black students, it was 38 percent, and for Hispanics, it was 53 percent.”
The title of Dan’s post is mis-leading (and is probably intended to stir up drama). The school district is expecting incremental improvement from all students but it recognizes that not all students can meet the same goal in the same period of time (see quote above). To expect ALL students to reach the same goal in the same period of time would actually indicate that the school district expects more from blacks than it does from Asians.
This is a perfectly rational goal setting exercise. I don’t know how anyone could see it as anything BUT that. People are just too touchy when it comes to race related issue. The unfortunate truth is that race IS generally a predictor of academic performance.
This is also important: “In addition, State Board of Education Chairwoman Kathleen Shanahan said that setting goals for different subgroups was needed to comply with terms of a waiver that Florida and 32 other states have from some provisions of the federal No Child Left Behind Act. These waivers were used to make the states independent from some federal regulations”
Read the article before you comment, folks.
The problem I have with this is the implication that the color of one’s skin actually plays a role in academic performance.
I wonder if the school districts have done further studies as to whether it’s the race or socioeconomic status / living conditions that are better predictors. I don’t really care much for the setting of uneven goals based on demographics; what would be better is if the schools assigned more remedial resources TO the affected demographics so they can approach the same levels as the high-performers.
should have same standard for EVERYONE!
Well, let me ask you this, should the pretty people dress in expensive clothing while the ugly wear drapes?
Sterotypes tend to be true. However, I dont think schools should force this kind of requirements. Its asking the blacks to fail. And then next thing we know, they are going to be playing the race card complaining that everything is unfair, and they are not getting their way, and im a poor loney black person whose rights are not being treated fairly. and every other racist thing they can come up with.
This is rubbish. Asians are already expected to perform well academically and outperform their non-Asian peers. The passing of the plan by the Florida State Board of Education simply reinforces stereotypes and justifies institutional racism.
I don’t appreciate all this pressure on Asians. Can’t we all just watch honey boo boo together.
I’m sure it’s due to the culture difference of how a child is most likely to be raised in a household. As immigration slows down the house hold values will be more like white folks, Amurrrrica.
This is just idiotic (but hey, it’s Florida). Not all Asians are adopted children with a full understanding of the English language. Some are immigrants/new residents still trying to get the hang of it. Also, Hispanics, Blacks, and (some) Caucasians are smarter than people give them credit for. Not to mention students of all races have their own difficulties or preoccupations outside of school. In closing, it’s wrong to expect anything from anyone.
Yeah! We should always expect more from Asians. They lead the alphabet and should lead everything else too!
Probably, they should expect the same from every native speaker of English and expect some other level for every non-native speaker of English… beyond that, it is silly. Every student is worthy of high expectations.
Even with this unspoken bias put in article form, Asian students don’t have a choice but to go with it. There will be tremendous consequences if you are an underachieving Asian when you apply for colleges and the work force. It’s a fact of life that nothing is fair.
LET’S GO ASIANS, LEAD THE WAY! 화이팅!
they should have the same set standard for everyone to graduate high school. no grade curves or leniency. if they don’t pass the high school exit exams, then they continue adult school. some students, who barely make a passing grade of a grade C or C-, and still graduate like the rest, undermine the efforts that the others have made. earn your diploma. set high expectations for everyone.
And I expect 80% of Blacks, 30% of Whites, 30% of Hispanics, and 15% of Asians to be competent at Basketball.
lol, is that fair compensation?
that’s just plain racism.
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No way, the same expectations should be the same for all races. Just another reason to make me feel ashamed to be an american -_-
I find that in most cases children rise to your level of expectation. Believe in them and they believe in themselves
@EmilyandAtticus - uh uh uh, Some Americans, don’t group us all in the same pot.
Anyway, this is ridiculous. Whatever school board member thought of this should be fired!!! If they approved it, then they need a new board entirely.
Look at local demographics, look at the schools students of particular races go to. Their main focus is often survival, not learning what they are supposed to in school.
oh,my I never thought about it.
Absolutely not, they should want every student, AND strive to get every student reading above their grade level no matter what their race is.
that’s a shame.
Sometimes you have to begin with small steps. That being said, I think that smart students should be separated from dumb students regardless of race. In Holland they have 2 educational tracks, with the smarter students going to a college prep school and the dumber students going to a different school that prepares them for trade school or going directly to a vocation. To me it’s much more apalling when intelligent students are held back because of dumber peers, and the idea that everyone should be in the same peer group or that things should be equalized. I don’t really care about making everyone feel equal, intelligent students should not be encumbered by slower students, just like financially succesful people should not have to bear the burdens of those who made idiotic life choices.
@olwd - They have to show that their results are improving, it’s typically a state requirement called AYP (acceptable yearly progress). They already have to take statistics based on race, and the numbers they gave her are probably higher than the actual numbers given that they are goals. All they are doing is setting goals here which they think they can meet.
@olwd - It was a joke. Settle down.
Sounds like racism at it’s best.
The School Board is set that way because teaching/parenting skills are FAR different for Asians than us ‘whiteys’ .Have you not heard of ‘Dragon Mom’,'Tiger Mom’,etc?Sadly, the few that are that tough on their kids made the other nations view the races at that way,I guess you could say stereo-typically..
Well I love children but this is depressing. I’m not sure I want to put mine through such absurd expectations.
Notice they are doing this to comply with Bush’s No Child Left Behind Act. nuff said.
I was ripped a new one and called ignorant and racist when I capitalized “black”.
Set realistic goals for people. If 74% is the most realistic short term goal for children coming from African-American culture, then begin there. Do not ever stop there, but keep challenging all students until the goal is reached for all children. We have to understand that the standards are not based, factually, upon the color or national origin of children, but rather the culture from which they come. Start where the child is, and work toward a single standard of excellence for all children. Create a culture of success which cross all lines and barriers.
While race most definitely has nothing to do with this, upbringing does. I know for a fact Asians are pushed harder regarding education through tradition. [Link]
Personally I think it all comes down to motivation. If your kids are motivated to learn, they will. Φ ≡
@iones_island - This.
As for the question itself, though, I’m just laughing my butt off. (Silently, since I’m at work.)
why isn’t the question: Do you expect more from Hispanics than Blacks?
I think that they should have goals for the student population at large: a certain percentage of the student body reading at a certain level. And offer help for those who aren’t. Figure out why they aren’t, and try to work with them where they’re at. If it’s a language issue, make sure the school has a good ESL program. If they have a learning disability, make sure the teachers are aware of that and know how to deal with it.
I think if you set lower goals for people of whatever group, members of that group will believe they are inherently inferior and that contributes to the problem. Like if you have lower standards for the girls in a math class than for the boys, the girls will perceive it to be because girls just aren’t as good at math, not try as hard, and create a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Hmm.. I’m thinking they base this on a cultural standpoint more than the color of their skin. So maybe they believe that the majority of hispanics & blacks in their state (I refuse to say African American because not every black person is of African descent & technically not every African American is black.. we really need a new word there) come from poverty or broken homes, and knowing Florida, that’s not all that far off. It could go both way with whites, but most of the middle to upper class families are white. As for Asians, a lot of older Asian people I’ve met, especially ones that actually lived in Asia before coming here, push education on their children because they want them to be successful. They just seem to value it more than we do, & for good reason.
I mean, they’re obviously doing it based off of statistics off of their state.. just because they know something we don’t doesn’t mean we have the right to point fingers or call names or whatever.
Maybe poverty is why they expect less. Impoverished areas are full of crime and violence, a much more difficult environment to learn in.
I think the school board should study the brains of the races and find activities that are easier for each race and require them. I was in a wealthy district for a time or a place where there were a lot of upper class kids, and I’ve noticed that black children seem to have a higher tendency to be in those classes. I was too. I’m not saying I’m better. I’m just saying there are differences. I’ve noticed that black children are more visual when it comes to math.
@MrTrololo - I don’t know. Russians live in poverty, and they still average a 90 on IQ tests and they perform better than blacks do. Some of the best poets have been blacks from Russia though. I think greatness comes from every race personally.
I’ve noticed there are differences in types of intelligence in various races. I think the school board caters to white students.
A student’s skin tone isn’t the greatest factor in determining their success at school, but is in fact the cultural environment they live in. I never truly understood this dynamic until a few years ago.
I work for LAUSD, which is the second largest school district in the United States. For years I had worked in Facilities which meant I was in a professional office environment. Then with the budget cuts and less money (and due to our union contract) I was moved out of the office and environment and sent to a high school in South Central Los Angeles. Being exposed to that environment on a daily basis made me see what is going on in this community and why minorities in these areas tend to stay behind. Simply put it is that they know nothing else, and there isn’t really anything else around them to reinforce something positive. Also the fact that parents do not reinforce good habits in their children for various reasons. Finally the most striking issue is that there is no stability in their lives either.
I’ve been at three different schools and have seen that there are quite a number of students who come in and out of school treating it like a revolving door. One month they’re here, parents check them out to send them somewhere else, and some come back a few months later to enroll once again. I feel that this is one of the key factors that results in the cultural/race divide we have going on in education now.
Personally I was raised to question what comes my way. My parents were from Mexico and they moved here shortly after they got married. I was born in California and spoke Spanish. When it came to go to school there was no ESL in existence, so it was sink or swim … and luckily I swam. I swam because my parents supported me by staying up late helping me with homework, taking me to the library, and exposing to various other activities to increase my skills.
In the end it comes down to not going by these stats, but going with the potential you know you have as an individual.
Well… I feel torn on this one. Part of me says “yes” because the school systems seem to always try and fit every student into a certain curriculum and use the same method of teaching for all 20+ students (especially in the metropolitan areas). I think that it would be beneficial for students to have more of an individualized curriculum, however!, (this is where I’d say “no”) I don’t think it’s… productive to “individualize” in such a broad manner as by race. I know extremely intelligent African Americans and Hispanics and I know extremely dim Caucasians and Asians. And to say to a select group of students that less is expected of them gives them the excuse to slack off and not hold high standards for themselves, even for the extremely intelligent students, and cultures in them this idea that because of their race they are dumb or less-intelligent than Caucasians and Asians. Can you imagine what it must feel like to be told that? What ever happened to the idea that you could live in this country and be anyone, come from anything, and do great, wonderful things?!
@Colorsofthenight - I’ve been to Russia and the Ukraine, and from my experience, the poverty and culture is quite a bit different than what we have here. Their poverty was full of hard working people, miners, farmers, etc. (for some reason saw quite a few people with injured or missing hands, dunno why) but people appeared to be working hard. Even the young men on the street, were not dealing drugs, they were selling clothes, flowers, art, vegetables, etc.
@MrTrololo - I haven’t been to Russia but I’ve known several Russians and what you say is true. They work really hard. I think it’s better than our sloppy society in a way. Welfare=bad. You get trapped in it. I’ve been in all sorts of areas the past few years.
While I agree that culture is a factor, I do think there are differences in the races, but I don’t think greatness knows any color. I tend to think of us ordinary folks as, well, ordinary. I think superior people will shine no matter what. I think the sky’s the limit there, not social expectations.
This is a pretty good example of what you get into when you try to base school budgets, teacher’s merit pay, etc on student performance on standardized tests or other so-called “objective”criteria. The data on which these score goals is based is somewhat suspect – the Asians in the most often quoted group study were Chinese students at a Shanghai Tech School for gifted kids. These kind of racial-ethnic studies are extremely hard to standardize
I think because of this low expectation, Blacks are falling behind. At a young age there should be high expectation for Black just as there are for Asian. I think if Black children had Asian parents, their reading, math, and science levels would be high too. Asian succeed because their parents demand success.
@fragility_beautiful - you’d think they’d do this by income bracket instead of race though if that was their argument.
What they’re saying is bad for society because it demoralizes people. I’ve noticed differences but the sum is not the whole and great people are, well, great. And they come from every race.
I think they should study what the differences are and then include various topics that each race is good at in the schools. For example, hispanics are often new to this country so including a section on Mexican heritage would benefit them. Likewise, including a reading section including “The Outsiders” and various books would benefit children that live in poverty.
No, because I’m tired of reading -_-
@Parsimony - I agree. But the Model Minority Myth is still discouraging.
The difference in school performance has nothing to do with race. If the Department of Education had to categorize students for different goals of performance in order to maintain exemption from the federal no child left behind program, they should have used the real factors that affect a student’s likely performance,
* the economic situation of the child’s parents* the education of the child’s parents* whether the child is being raised by a single parent.
@MrTrololo - Mining and farming are some of the most dangerous/hazardous jobs out there- which likely explains the injured/missing limbs. In cities/countries where there aren’t safety nets like welfare or food stamps, poverty will take on a different form. You won’t have the inner city slum problem of a certain percentage of folks content to just live off the social care system per se, as everyone will be doing their best to make a buck to survive. However, on the outskirts of cities there will be shanty towns of people living in whatever materials they could scrounge for shelter with no modern amenities like heat, plumbing, or water as in the days of old. The level of poverty and filth there greatly exceeds our worst slums.
I think it would motivate them.
The scale is likely based on current levels of measured achievement averages. From the article:
”As an example, the percentage of white students scoring at or above
grade level (as measured by whether they scored a 3 or higher on the
reading FCAT) was 69 percent in 2011-2012, according to the state. For
black students, it was 38 percent, and for Hispanics, it was 53 percent.”
For white students- the plan to raise them from 69% to 88% is a 28% increase goal.
For hispanic students – the plan to raise them from 53% to 81% is a 53% increase goal.
For black students – the plan to raise them from 38% to 74% is a 95% increase goal
Since there is a disparity in averages now among racial groups in that district, the higher goal requirements being placed on the lowest performing groups actually sounds like a good thing as long as the targets are raised as the groups progress. They could have also explained it better to not make it appear racist.
We should expect the same high standards from all students……and also from all of their teachers.
@SoullFire - Well I’ve seen very similar poverty in Mexico City but just not the missing/damaged limbs, and there is a lot of farming on the outskirts there but I’m not sure of mining.
@Colorsofthenight - I agree!
i think that’s very offensive and discriminting.
This could be considered racial profiling, but I don’t care if it is successful. A higher quality education for everyone would make the world suck a little less.
Setting a lower goal for students who are not Asian is going to set those students up for failure because the school board is basically telling those students right off the bat that they are not good enough to have a higher goal. So those students will end up not working as hard. The school board would be better off looking in to the concept of jigsaw classrooms where the students are interdependant on each other to learn the information. Studies show that when students work together in smaller groups towards a common goal they not only get along better but they also learn better.
@MrTrololo - Hmmm, it might be that in Mexico, the nature of the work is less industrialized and using less dangerous machinery. There’s a show on TV about Lumberjacks and they mentioned that having people casually lose fingers, toes or more, is routine enough not to be surprising.
@Celestial_Teapot - Since you think Asians are better than blacks, then you must also think Asians should pay their fair share of taxes to support their sloth, drug use, mindless baby making and abortions.
That’s means Obama should also raise your taxes to pay for his failures.
Thank God for Asians. They are the white man’s best friend.
We should all be treated equal that is true. Being an Asian student and living in Florida, I can vouch that expectations for our success is higher. Not just our teachers and professors expect it, but other students expect it as well. A pressure I am faced with everyday, from peers and professors alike expecting me to be a reserved intellectual individual. A stereo type that from experience I can say is half true. There are many young gifted Asian American students. Only because they work hard and have a desire to succeed.
florida does what florida wants, i mean 2004 bush elections lol
You beat me to the punch, man. This was going to be an article on Momaroo. That’s what I get for allowing myself a sad day upon hearing that the military is taking my husband away from me again today. You suck. Blah.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - “Since you think Asians are better than blacks, then you must also think Asians should pay their fair share of taxes to support their sloth, drug use, mindless baby making and abortions.”
Tell me again, Curtis, how was it you got your Xanga Life membership revoked and your ass kicked out of Xanga?
Why words like “Race” and “Gender” are always associated with hate and discrimination? there are few facts of life which we cant negate. Some of us are born as women and some are born as men. We have our own peculiarities as men and women. The other fact is that we all belong to a particular race, which has its own set of qualities and shortfalls, but that does not make any race lesser than the other. I think there is no harm is having different expectations for from different races. this does not make the system
RACIST
.
By the way don’t you people in USA accept lesser salary for women? That is gender discrimination, after all women don’t get things cheap
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This is not a racist rule, nor is it a racist frame of mind that came up with the idea. Here is what, most likely, happened. They looked at their demographics and saw that 54% (Just throwing a number out there, I have no idea what it really is)of Black students read at grade level or above, but Asians were at, say, 74%. So to give everyone an equal goal they picked a percentage of increase (maybe 20% for example). So each demographic is required to improve 20% and based on that each demographic has different requirements. It is a basic concept that uses the reality of what is and has been currently happening and applies a non-biased increase to each party involved. Would it have satisfied you more if they just put an across the board measurement at 80% and then black and hispanic students would bear a HUGE increase while whites/asians only a small one? I personally do not like the dumbing down rules they do in school, where everyone has to wait for the slowest people. If the reality is that Black students do far worse than other students then let’s increase that, but not with blindfolds on. It reminds me of that one south park episode where Family guy made an episode with an image of muhammad and the muslims want to kill everyone over it, so they bury their heads in the sand. We don’t have to live outside of reality.
I love how other factors aren’t tailored in, like the increase of bi/tri-racial children. So will a half-black/half-asian child be given a median expectation between the two race goals?
Lol it’s like, “well you tested well… for a black kid“. Seriously now. Why don’t we instead target children who come from tougher circumstances. Children who are impoverished, in single-parent households, or learning disabled, etc. etc. should be the groups. Sure, there might be more impoverished blacks than asians, but let’s not look at the face, and rather the true reality of each individual student.
I also believe that student progress should INDIVIDUALLY be considered versus their starting point. “What were his skills entering 3rd grade?” then “What are his skills leaving 3rd grade?”
Anyway, this kind of racism is already practiced by many colleges, particularly ivy leagues. Asians are held to highest standards, and blacks/American indians I believe are held to the lowest.
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